preventive care. covered. pre-existing conditions. covered. no higher rates due to gender. extended coverage for young adults. no more coverage denied if you get sick. and guaranteed renewal, even if you do. learn more today. this hour on the "new york times" special edition, president obama is hitting the road to this weekend to push his health care plan what is he trying to accomplish? we will get reaction. the scare on the potomac. the coast guard says it was a

routine training exercise, but it turned into homes of panic. nbc's pete williams is going to bring us the latest. and one year later, the failure of lehman brothers last year helped push the u.s. economy to the brink. what's the word on wall street today? we will talk to the head of the white house council on economic advisers. plus, eight years since 9/11, somber ceremonies in new york and other places today marking that day. the big question, where are we in the fight against al qaeda? that discussion is straight ahead. >> good day, everyone, i'm john harwood of cnbc and the "new york times." >> i'm norah o'donnell, msnbc's chief washington correspondent. and this is the "new york times" special edition. and let's get right to it because on the front page, the president beats the drum for his health care plan this weekend. >> he heads for a rally in minneapolis tomorrow and then sunday, president obama speaks to union members at the afl-cio convention in pittsburgh. they will also make his case in

a network interview airing sunday night. let's bring in national political reporter with the "new york times." adam, thanks for being with us. tell me how you think the situation on health care is different now than it was before the president's speech on wednesday night. >> i think the president did or perceived to do a good job of laying out what he wanted in that bill he pucked up democrats that were nervous or missing in action and i think he got the democrats rallied around him. he went through at least the motions, reaching the other side. i don't know how real that was or what effect that would have but laying the groundwork in case we have to go through it, approval of one or two republicans, seems very, very possible. >> adam, looking forward, does it make it more likely that president obama is going to get the health care reform that he wants and what are we going to have in this bill next week from senate finance chairman, max baucus?

>> you know, my guess is it does make it more likely, the words, not sure about what he wants. my guess is in the end, we are going to have some kind of bill that is going to provide coverage. you will never get universal coverage, provide coverage from a vast majority of americans, you will have a all right of the insurance, all the insurance regulations he is looking for. i think that is what he is going to get in the end. >> adam, one of the questions has been the public option, we have talked about that for a long time and part of the analysis has been that liberals in the house of representatives and the senate as well are going to insist on that. do you actually think that will happen, or if a change is made that backs off that particular provision, as looks likely, do you think the threat of some sort of rebellion on the left is credible or not? >> my sense is that especially after the speech, is that in the end, democrats in the house to the left who are insistent upon a public option will be willing to go with something less, whether it is a trigger or co-op or something else, my guess is that that is not a deal breaker. i think the president made it

clear to anyone who is watching he does not think it is realistic to try to get a bill through, but a straight public option. i think that is where it is going. i don't believe that there will be enough rebellion among those democrats that would block a health care bill. >> and is that because they don't mean what they are saying or is it because the memories of 1994 and what happened to democrats when they failed on bill clinton a's watch are so clear and present to them as a reason not to do nothing? >> that is a good question. i think it is two things. first of all, the politics you are talking about devastating effect of democrats, after all of this got nothing out of it at all. people realize you can only go so far, limits how much you can get and it is not realistic to get -- might not -- appears not realistic to get a public option. people will realize that and come up with something closely but not quite there. >> adam, don't you think that a lot of the uneasiness out there with the american public is because we spend so much time talking about the politics of

this, who's up, who's down, who is fighting for the public option who is not, blue dog democrats? we spend so little time talking about what is actually in this bill, even though hard to dereceiver? i'm trying to find out stuff myself about what this is going to cost small business and almost impossible to find out. >> part of that is because we don't really have a good bill yet. the house democratic bill. >> isn't that the problem in the president promised the american people not to add a dime to the deficit, a huge concern in the wall street journal poll and there is doubt that they can hold up that end of the bargain. why not be more special sive sninchts you have heard him say very, very clearly on wednesday night he would not agency anything to the deficit. the key to coverage, want you to cover politics, those are important and how to get

through. we know the parameters, some of the stuff you are looking for, wait to the end to see how it is accomplished. >> adam, a lot of attention to the liar, liar issue since joe wilson spoke up in the well of the house wednesday night. do you think that had any appreciable effect on the political tone and atmosphere in washington that will have a material effect on the bill? >> not sure it will have a material effect on the bill but the politics around him. i think even republicans in the house were taken aback by what he did, in terms of the protocol, acting like that on the floor. and i think it sort of knocks them for a bit of a loop. i don't know how much they were prepared to come back at obama that night but i think more difficult to do it. i don't think it was helpful for them at all. >> helped the democrat running against him at all. what does he face, like half

million after this? >> yeah. yeah. >> adam nagourney from the new york times. great to talk to you. >> thanks. now to the ceremonies for the terror attacks eight years ago today. thousands honored the memories of the victims, some 3,000. >> new york city -- "new york times" city room blog, aj so thes berger described the scene at today's memorial, touching on the stark contrast in the skies over lower manhattan today in that fateful day, september, 2001. remembering the who are other of a bright blue morning, the day could not be more different than september 11th, 2001 t is rainy and gray with whipping winds. >> this morning, crowds gathered as family of the victims read allowed the names of the 2,752 killed in the attacks. services wrapped up just about a short time ago. nbc's rehema ellis joins us live from ground zero with more. rehema? >> reporter: norah, it is distinctly different out here,

the wind and the rain and the gray skies match more of the mood of the people who came out today to remember their loved ones who remembered on that horrible, horrible day in -- september 11th, 2001. the names of the victims were read and vice president joe biden was also here and joined in the remembrance of those victims. and he spoke to families. let's listen. >> a special fraternity of those of us who have lost thousands of children. but there is also one thing that all americans know to be true and which we remember most when we come to this site. in our joys and in our sorrows, we know we belong to one another. >> the president has called this a national day of service and many of the families of the victims have said they think

that that's appropriate. they want people to think about what they can do to help someone else, as was typical of that day on 9/11 eight years ago. they very much don't want this to be a federal holiday, norah and john, because people would just take the day off, but they want people to work, work for their community and work for people whom they love and even people they don't even know. norah? >> rehema ellis at ground zero, thanks so much for being with us. president obama led a ceremony at the pentagon memorial today. he spoke not only about the national tragedy eight years ago but also about the continuing work to keep america safe. >> let us renew our he resolve against those who perpetrated this barbaric act and who plot against us still. in defense of our nation, we will never waiver. in pursuit of al qaeda and its extremist allies, we will never falter. >> the president then took part in a wreath-laying ceremony to

honor the 184 lives lost at the pentagon and on american airlines flight 77. colin powell delivered the keynote speech this morning for the victims of united airlines flight 93. bagpipes played and bells tolls. 40 people died at that crash site in shanksville, pennsylvania. remember, the hijackers crashed the plane as passengers tried to wrestle control of the cockpit. officials believe the flight may have been targeting the white house or even the capitol. and tonight, at the site of the twin towers, the tribute in light returns as a commemoration of those who lost their lives on september 11th. the beams of light, which represent the towers, were tested last night in lower manhattan, they will be turned on again at sunset and left on until dawn tomorrow morning. we have much more commemorating the 9/11 anniversary on our website, msnbc.com and that includes this interactive hd view of the world trade center

site. chaos and confusion took over today in washington for a short time following a coast guard training exercise on the potomac river. >> that's right there were these initial media reports indicating that the coast guard had fired these ten rounds at this suspicious boat and that is was then seen circling in the water. what is more than the departure from reagan national airport were halted for about 20 minutes. now, we have since learned that this was all a big giant misunderstanding. so, with us to give us more on what happened is nbc justice correspondent, pete williams. pete? what happened? >> what happened is a normal, regular, several times a week exercise by the coast guard. and it involved two things, four coast guard boats out in a section of the potomac river, not far from the pentagon, not far from memorial bridge, which the president used to get to the pentagon and back to the white house today. there was one boat pretending to be a boat not listening to coast guard warnings and three boats making maneuvers around them.

no shots were fired no weapons were aimed. at the same time, there was radio transmissions back and forth that were on an open radio frequency you marine channel 81. that was overheard by cnn. cnn went on the air about 10:00 and said ten shot also had been fired at a suspicious boat. no shots were fired. two questions, one, how did this get reported and two, why did the coast guard conduct an exercise like this boats moving around, on september 11th, to an day the president was driving back and forth on bridges across the river to attend this memorial. the coast guard is looking into the that. >> as you point out, we try to certainly, at nbc news, we may hear things but we try to confirm them with law enforcement officials before you raise alarms. was there instance where the media raised false alarms without checking things first and delayed flights at national airport? >> the flights at national airport for about 20 minutes. the outbound flights were shut down, affected about 17 flights.

my understanding, we have asked cnn for a comment. what they are saying, basically, is they heard these transmissions, they asked the coast guard what was going on, couldn't get a good answer, according to cnn, based on other sources, they decided to go ahead with this. they say when they found out what the deal was, they backed off. >> did it cause unnecessary alarm? >> of course. >> customary in cases like this since the coast guard knows people listen to the scanners, give a heads up to the media the training exercise was going on? do they deserve any blame in not putting the word out in an effective way? >> not to the news media. they claim they do these things four times a week, almost every day. by the way there have been stepped up coast guard patrols in this section of the potomac around washington since 9/11. >> wonder why the scares don't happen more often. >> i think everybody was paying extra close attention because of 9/11. the coast guard says ordinarily, routine practice i have been out on these exercises with them, i

have heard them do this they say on the radio, "this is an exercise this is a drill." we don't know whether they said that today, because so far, we have not been able to get recordings of the coast guard radio transmissions. but the secretary of homeland securi security, janet napolitano, wants the coast guard to look into how this happened. the coast guard wants to know, too, the mistake to time this thing today. as i say, waiting to hear from cnn what they say about their reporting. >> all right. pete williams, thanks for explaining what happened today. obviously very confusing. >> thanks, pete. coming up, the fallout from congressman joe wilson's outburst during the president's address to congress. hear what "new york times" columnist gail collins had to say ahead. >> worth listening to. and a "new york times" columnist in the political risk involved in the political care reform. the op edge is coming up.

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welcome back to the "new york times"special edition on msnbc. now time for our weekly look at some of the sharpest line notice new york times op ed pages this week. >> first up on the op ed, gail collins takes on the outburst by the republican congressman from south carolina, joe wilson who shouted out "you lie." the president said illegal immigrants won't be covered by health care reform. collins writes, "it seemed like a pretty tame remark for so much disrespect, given all the recent uproar over the president's allege aid billity to brain wash elementary school students." so, wilson did not call him a socialist did not call him a nazi. so what, tame? >> i don't think so i think it was disrespectful and i think the republican party was embarrassed and i think that is why he was forced to apologize

to quickly. i think it came down raining on him hard. >> i totally agree. the think the only thing that mitigated the damage is the president, himself, used the word lie about the things that republicans had said in the previous paragraph in the speech, he talk about the death panels. those things were untrue, but that particular word, he put it on the table. >> it was unnecessary. that was totally unnecessary. no question about it. >> all right. next up on the op ed edge, maureen dowd, she said that president obama needs to step it up, spotty and more rocky. opponents of health care plan, "civil discourse is fine but when the other side is fighting dirty, you should get angry." i love maureen, she has a way with words, be less wonky and more in campaign mode. >> did you think he showed a little bit of anger in that speech? >> i did. >> i thought there was a little bit of edge? >> i thought the most emotional speech we have heard him give, i think, since he has been president.

it was passionate. he talked about the character of our country, that this was a moral issue and i think he got -- he pushed back hard against liars and people who were telling untruths. >> that particular line, i want to reach out my hand but not waste time with you if you're going to kill the bill. >> get a gun. let's move on. >> exactly. >> last up on the on edge, david brooks praised the president's health care address to congress on wednesday as the finest of his presidency. and brooks writes, "obama threw out enough rhetorical chum to keep the liberals happy and suddenly staked out ground in the center on nearly every substantive issue in order to win over the moderates needed to get anything passed." but i thought the key part with david brooks was that despite all that he didn't prove that this is not going to add a dime to our deficit. >> that's true, although nobody could prove that right now i do think david has it exactly right. the most important part of the speech was him leaning toward that senate finance committee bill, which resolved a couple of outstanding issues, including how you pay for it in a way that

makes that the likely vehicle what is going to get through the congress. >> yeah. >> more on the president's health care push, joined live by times op ed columnist, ross calfet. do you agree with david brooks that this speech did have a material impact in helping the president get closer to the goal line on health care? >> i think it is way too soon to tell. i think the fascinating thing with allel of this is how closely it's parallel what happened with bill clinton in health care in 1993 and 1994. having a joint address to congress on domestic policy in early september. in that instance, if you look back, clinton gave a speech, everybody be said it was an effective speech. his poll numbers went up temporarily, if the long run, it didn't move the ball further down the field. >> are you predicking this thing is going to tank like clinton's health care initiative did? >> no, i'm not, actually, i think that the democrats it is precisely because of those par

levels and the further parallel of what then happened in 1994 with the gingrich revolution that is going to push the democrats in the end to say we don't want to have clintoncare all over again, we are going to pass something we can call health care reform. >> ross, there are no doubt a lot of parallels between president obama and where president clinton was. but president obama staked out in this message, not on the congress but to the american people, that never before have we been closer to reform, we are 80% of the way there five of the six committees. so, hasn't there been some significant progress despite a lot of the hand-wringing that is going on? >> there is significant progress in the sense there is a slightly larger democratic majority which makes it easier to get 80% to of the way there on the individual committees. so, yeah, in terms of lining up the vote, we are probably closer to health care reform than we were in '93. >> not just the democratic majority but more cohesive democratic majority.

so many of the conservative southern democrats who ended up getting wiped out in 1994 aren't there anymore and the democratic caucus is much more homogeneous ideologically, don't you think? >> i think that is true. the one other thing to keep in mind, i think david made this point in his colome, what wasn't true in obama's speech or what was unlikely to be true was his line about how, you know, many -- many presidents have attempted this, i want to be the last president to attempt health care reform. i think one thing safe to say about this -- the bills being considered, even if something passes, we are going to have to revisit this issue in five years, ten years or 12 years, because what this bill does it gets you closer to universality. none of the bills get the system closer to fiscal solvency in the long run. in the short run, they may end up being somewhat budget-neutral. but the long run, leaving the deeper cost challenges unaddressed. >> well, does that mean you don't believe the notion that

the -- fee on those high-cost insurance plans and med pac in particular will have any effect on the cost curve? they haven't scored the finance committee bill but get credit tort ideas. >> the cbo's estimate on the med pack idea, tough for the cbo to score that kind of thing, probably wouldn't have a big long-term impact. no i think that ultimately, if you look at the sort of -- the deep bend the curve proposal, you aren't getting there the only proposal there that could bend this cost curve in the current proposal is something like the public option, basically the conservative nightmare and liberal dream come true and public option, everybody rushes into the public option, then you could imagine basically the bending the cost curve itself. >> competition. yeah. >> all right. >> ross douthat with the new york times. as always, we appreciate it. >> thanks for having me. coming up, imagine being a

medical student during the health air care debate. my sister is one how much is the debate affecting the future of some doctors? more ahead in this tape from the times.com. later will nasa be able to bring the space shuttle home today? more ahead. this is the "new york times" special edition, only on msnbc. ♪ ♪ i'm cool like that, i'm cool like that ♪ ♪ i'm cool like that [ female announcer ] there's a smarter, cooler way to get your clothes brilliantly clean. and it's a turn for the better.

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welcome back to the new york types special edition on msnbc. time for video on the "new york times."com. >> the nation grapples with the health care reform debate, another debate going on right now among some of our future doctors it is a debate about whether to become a general practitioner, as president obama subjects, or become a specialist and maybe make some more money. >> the university of washington here in seattle puts a lot of emphasis on primary care, but

interviews with a variety of second year students who just returned from a summer program that sends them to rural or underserved areas revealed the financial incentives are only one piece of their decision. >> some of these students get out there and they see the doctors they are working with almost killing themselves, working 80 hours a week. >> you hear about the stories of physician burnout and going into primary care and it was just -- really reiterated over the summer. >> just a ton of work. >> you don't have the time to really sit down. >> consider this video and more at video.ny times.com. all right, coming up, eight years after the 9/11 attacks, growing doubt among democrats about whether president obama can be successful in afghanistan. we have got the caucus. that's coming up. you are watching the "new york times" special edition, right here on msnbc. when we're in a sandwich,

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here are a few of the top stories making headlines this hour. today, the nation remembers the nearly 3,000 lives lost in the 9/11 attacks in new york, the pentagon and shanksville, pennsylvania. president obama marks the day at the pentagon memorial, while vice president biden travels to new york for the ground zero ceremony. and takes one shot to keep from getting the swine flu. the cdc today shows a single shot would be enough to immunize against swine flu. good news. health officials thought the vaccine originally would require the second booster. finally, storms in florida die laid the afternoon landing of the space shuttle "discovery." once again, nasa will try for a night time landing. the last resort, touching down at edwards air force base, of course, in california. now time for the caucus, to our roundup of the week's top stories with "new york times'"

journalists. >> that's right. this is my favorite part of the show. >> joining us now this week, cheryl stoll berg, white house correspondent new york times, jeff zeller in, covers the white house and eric schmidt, covers national security issues. cheryl, let me start with you, you did this piece this week, you talk about the conventional wisdom being wrong on health care, ross dout had hat on a moment ago, saying the obama effort reminded him of 1994 tell why the conventional wisdom of this thing is headed for the graveyard as well. >> i think a lot of people thought coming out of august and these raucous town hall meetings this was dead in the water but in fact, a lot more progress. i heard ross talk about the speech the other night reminding him of the clinton speech in '946 '94678 on capitol hill, four out of five coast passed legislation, very important players still at the negotiating table, a pharmaceutical industry, the hospitals, the

doctors, even the insurers, although they oppose the president a's call for a public option, are still there. the president has the numbers, democrats control the house and the senate and they spent the day yesterday with moderate democrats that is the group that the president will need to win over late last night, white house officials yesterday said they feel good about things and the president's speech moved the ball. >> you think they are cocky he at the white house? >> far from cocky but back to almost confident, which is what they were the opening months of this year. really throughout much of july and august. you will see the president tomorrow in minneapolis, minnesota, target 20,000 people. interesting venue, where the republican convention was only about a year ago and where

then-senator obama had a lot of rallies during the campaign. designed to pump him up and send the message that this is going forward regardless of the opposition. >> how much is remaking him back in that campaign-style mode, this fighter for this issue and trying to remind everybody, remember the campaign? remember he won by 7 points? remember all the backing behind him? this is why we have to get that done. >> there is a lot of that we saw this on labor day, he went to cincinnati and gave this real fiery speech there. in fact, pulled out some of the rhetoric from his campaign. remember fired up, ready to go? he told that story again and had the crowd going and he was going, too. and that's -- you know, his back to the wall. >> how significant do you think the remaining divisions are among democrats on public option or what taxes ought to be paid on how big this plan ought to be overall? >> you know, i think we will have to see. it was good for the president that he brought that number in under $1 trillion that $900 billion figure. but the president, in his speech the other night, said in his vision, the plan would be $900

billion over ten years, 90 billion a year, the psychological threshold that is important. the public option, i think he went a long way toward aswashing concerns, he is backing off there and you can see perhaps a compromise emerge around some kind of trigger where a public option might kick in down the road. >> what is the calculations for republicans? some who felt bold enough to call the president, you know, it's a lie in the middle and certainly -- >> not votinging for the bill? >> yeah. he may not be in congress next term, we don't know. they are cloo clearly not going to vote this how are they gaining to oppose this? >> they don't feel vulnerable, a good number of the electorate. >> john mccain circulating a petition? >> republicans are fine. but the point is there may suddenly become or slightly and gradually becomer vant in this

debate this is going to become a democratic-only debate on capitol hill. that is what the speech was about the other night. so you know, they can hold up their plans and things, they know this is slowly moving away from them. >> eric, do you see this emerging potential fight over afghanistan as siphoning any energy away from what democrats are trying to do on these other issues, including health care? >> you have seen. this the white house signal it had want to delay major decisions on troop increases in afghanistan, until they can tackle some of the other major bills, issues like health care. this is to the frustration of the generals, including general stanley mcchrystal in afghanistan who has submitted his strategic assessment of afghanistan what he needs and also expecting in the coming weeks to ask for additional troops on the ground. he said let's hold off on the decision until we get through the bigger issues.

>> what you talked about that and earlier in the show, health care, at the end of the day, liberals are going to vote for the bill because they know level to do something is that not true on afghanistan? do you think in fact, the level of opposition and concern we are getting into a quagmire might be such people would put up their hands and say no? >> i think so likely now that the president is going to have to turn to conservatives, republicans in the congress for most of his support. john mccain has come out today, strongly in favor, as did kit bond, on the intelligence committee talking about they are going to give back whatever troop increases general mcchrystal might come forward with. carl levin, the chairman of the house armed services committee has a different view. he is saying, whoa, let's hold off on putting any additional u.s. combat troops on the ground in afghanistan until we can train additional afghan security forces to do the job first. >> is it clear that the president would approve additional troop levels? as you reported there is a debate within his own team, right, these different forces about who believes more troops

are necessary and who believes they are not? >> absolutely. he is going to be under incredible pressure from his commanders to fill fill what they say they need on the ground. >> joe biden somewhat skeptical? >> that is right. already sending messages back and forth in terms of what might be a reasonable request to come in with troop increase and so what we will see, what general mcchrystal comes forward with next. >> you mean this to sound like a dumb question, but honestly, what's the strategy in afghanistan? >> the strategy is, in the short-term, put in enough allied forces, u.s. and some other nato forces on the ground, provide security, protect population and buy time, buy time for allied and trainers, basically military trainers, to train up the afghan national army, a afghan national police so they can take over. this is going to take several years, however though, so, it is not a question of how long all right public resolve, both here and european capitals, really remains strong. >> jeff, one of the questions that i've had is whether or not afghanistan with a political

commitment president obama as a candidate embraced as opposed to something he genuinely believes in in the long-term as a war of necessity. what does the white house tell you when people talk about the options, well, could you step up drone attacks and do it that way rather than putting in american troops? >> i think they feel that they are too far invested at this point. i think eric is absolutely right, all the talk of health care, afghanistan remains the biggest worry inside the white house, without question. this is something where you are going to see real divisions inside the democrats, he is going to need republicans for. so i think he is committed to this. we see no indication, heard no indication from his commanders of any sort of sense of being jittery on this. so, this will definitely be a tough decision for the president and perhaps a defining decision for the president in terms of how his first term will look. >> sheryl, you agree with that and think he will not back off? >> today is september 11th, the

president stood at the memorial at the pentagon and said we will protect the united states. the most important thing he has to do is protect the safety of the country. he knows that while september 11th may seem distant now, eight years in the past this is forefront on his mind. he gets those briefings, intelligence briefings every day and i think it weighs heavily. >> that is why i asked eric that question. when i asked, you said about building a force that they can get up and running, you didn't answer because we have to protect america to be in afghanistan. >> this is the argument i think the administration, president obama needs to make forcefully. >> right. >> why -- >> that is the only way to do it? >> yeah. >> why does the united states have to put 70,000 troops on the ground in afghanistan -- >> sounds like nation building. >> homeland. united states homeland. an argument, a little bit nuanced, as they have been explaining, al qaeda is no longer in afghanistan it is in pakistan next door but the united states can't go into pakistan to root them out it san indirect effect. he has to come out and explain

that over and over again, most forcefullism even strongest supporters in congress are saying that that. >> eric schmidt, jeff stolberg, sheryl, thanks. where do we stand and we will talk to the head of the economic council of economic advisers, christina roam other ahead. think it takes too long to pack your kid's school lunch? some parents are taking mealtime to a whole new level. cheryl stolberg tells us the sandwiches she makes for her kids. i want that. you are watching the "new york times" special edition only on msnbc.

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friskies feline favorites. feed the senses. getting an early flu shot is the best thing you can do... to protect you and your loved ones from the flu. it's also one of the easiest things you can do... because walgreens is now offering seasonal flu shots... every day of the week with convenient hours guaranteed. so you can just stop in. our 16,000 dedicated pharmacists... and take care clinic nurse practitioners... are waiting to help you beat the flu... in neighborhoods nationwide. at walgreens we want you to know, there's a way to stay well. welcome back to the "new york times" special edition only on msnbc. the day the economy slipped into full-blown crisis can be traced back one year ago next week. that is right. the news broke of lehman brothers impending doom.

>> the overnight hours of september 15th, the wall street titan officially collapsed. the aftershocked caused a worldwide financial landslide. joining us now, dr. christina roamer of the white house council of economic advisers. from the white house, dr. roamer, thanks for being with us. >> great to be here. >> let me ask you first about a report that your council of economic advisers put out the other day saying that the economic stimulus package had increased employment by a million. given the fact than employment has gone up to 9.7%, republicans are saying it is a jobless recovery, two questions, a, how much comfort should we take that 1 million jobs have been saved by that, and b, how do you know that jobs were saved that might not otherwise have disappeared? >> all right. so, those are all good questions. let me take the last one first. what we do in the report, it was something that was mandated by

the recovery act, very much that they -- part of the transparen sand accountability. what we do in the report is lots of different message to say what do we think the impact of the fiscal stimulus has been on overall economic growth and on jobs, in particular? we use a number of methods. for example, using statistical projections to say what would have happened given the past history of key economic series, what do we think is a plausible baseline, one way we get an estimate. we use an economic model based on history to get an estimate. the other thing we do is survey about seven private forecastors to get their estimate. and what's really striking is this 1 million number is a pretty standard one that comes out of it. what you pointed to out there are a million more jobs than there otherwise might have been, we have lost jobs, unemployment rate has gone up. what we can tell you how much worse things would have been without the fiscal stimulus.

i agree we wish it were more, adding jobs rather than losing them at a lower rate but shouldn't lose sight of the fact how important this has been to changing the trajectory and making things much less bad than they could have been. >> how high do you expect the unemployment rate to go dr. roamer and when do you expect to peak? >> we just did a new forecast for the mid session review of the budget in which we said, unfortunately, we think 10% is a reasonable estimate of where the unemployment rate is likely to go realistically, probably the end of this year, early next year, is likely sign of a peak before we then finally get to see the up employment rate start to come down. >> dr. roamer do we need another stimulus? >> you know what we are focusing on, what our report documents is how important the first stimulus is, making sure we continue to get that money out as quickly and effectively as possible. >> that doesn't sound like a no.

>> basically, 150 billion of the 787 billion has gone out. the think the way i would say tax a lot of fiscal stimulus yet to come, see what that does and then see where we are. >> the president said in his speech to congress the other night he would not sign a bill that added a dime to the deficit over the next ten years or beyond. given the history of what's happened with health spending in the united states and given the uncertainty of making long-term projection, the uncertainty of any savings achieved why should anybody have confidence in that assertion? >> all right. well, first mean a it is backed one some concrete proposal. so when he has been talk about for example, expanding coverage, some of the things we need to do we have put on table hard, scorable savings. these are not things that might happen but things that the

congressional budget office says might have effects. the other thing that the president talked about, the futures, if it is adding spending, we will make adjustments. he certainly is committed to that. >> all right. dr. christina romer, great tough on. nice to see you. thanks so much. >> great to be here. and coming up, after the rescue of a "new york times" correspondent captured in afghanistan, been a reevaluation of the role of journalists in the war zone. but first, the answer to the question, where are we today? >> on thursday we showed you this shot of an undisclosed location, let's look at it. that is the real tight shot. if you are like me and i guess, i guessed michelle obama's garden, you are right. >> i'm meteorologist bill karis. washington, d.c. area, middle or end of fall, feels like if

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the "new york times" has all the stories fit to print. now, here's one that caught norah's eye. >> that's right. there's these japanese about ento boxes and they are the new american lunch trend. their popularity is actually increasing among children and adults for a variety of reasons. that's right. these typically small boxes are, turns out, a good way to control your portions. look at that pretty cute, huh? they can also be used to artistically pack leftovers for lunch if you are trying to save money. look at this, parents can use their creativity to get fussy kids to try and eat vegetables. >> you do that with your kids?

>> i don't have time. i mean it is so beautiful, but that is like martha stewart or something. >> me neither. i don't have time. we do have time for the sunday times early delivery. joining us now live is sam tanhouse, editor of the week in review and book review for the "new york times." sam, you saw the president's speech on wednesday night. does that speech accelerate the death of conservatism that you wrote in your book that is just out? >> you know what is so interesting about this, john and norah, the apology since retracted, congressman wilson, representative wilson said he had been uncivil. it seems to be disappearing fast. i felt i was on all-too-familiar ground on that episode. >> what is coming up in the sunday "times"? >> do what develop in artistically packaged left jovers? not leftovers. >> a great way to put it.

>> john burns, one of the greatest of all living foreign correspondents is going to look at the case of an important "times" report. stephen farm, in afghanistan, captured in this case and then going to look at the foreign correspondent in today's world. should be a really good story. >> is he going to address conservati conservatives? >> what do you mean, norah? and we will address oliver stone and remake of "wall street" and asked our reporters here, including a pulitzer winner to write a new script for oliver stone based on lehman brothers. >> sam tanenhaus. nice to know we have john burn and a bento box. be sure to join us next friday at 2 p.m. on msnbc.

i'm john harwood. >> i'm norah o'donnell. david schuster and tamron hall will pick things up next. they will talk about whether president obama's opponents are critical of just his policies or are there other reasons out there he is facing so much opposition in the reverend jesse jackson is going to weigh in. this is msnbc. the place for politics. eight ways reform matters to you. a cap on deductibles and out-of-pocket costs. no annual or lifetime limits on coverage. preventive care. covered. pre-existing conditions. covered. no higher rates due to gender. extended coverage for young adults. no more coverage denied if you get sick. and guaranteed renewal, even if you do. learn more today. i've still got room for the internet. with my new netbook from at&t. with its built-in 3g network, it's fast and small, so it goes places other laptops can't. anything before takeoff mr. kurtis? prime rib, medium rare.

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