rational news. listen to what she says about you. >> where do you get your news? >> i get my news mostly from cable on tv. >> do you watch msnbc? >> never. >> do you watch ed schultz? >> only when my daughter's home and that's just to see how her hair looks or if she looks good. >> liz, you look great. your hair looks fantastic so mom is happy. >> president obama, come and save me. you can find me. president, come and save me. >> liz winstead, i have to ask you before you leave us, quickly, what do you make of this wilson dude at the speech the other night and kind of called out the president? >> well, you know, is he the same wilson that played the basketball on the tom hicks movies? i think he was. i think he is the same wilson. as i said -- wilson!

join the wilson ticket. >> great to see you. have a great weekend. thanks for joining us again on a friday. >> thank, ed. >> you bet. earlier in the show i asked you what you thought. how do you think most republicans are feeling about congressman joe wilson's outburst? 32% of you say embarrassed. 68% of you say embolded. dave schultz, 863. way to go, buddy. i'm ed schultz. "hardball" is next with chris matthews. have a great weekend. the president's political health. let's play "hardball." good evening. i'm chuck todd in washington filling in for chris matthews who will be back on monday. leading off tonight, image problem.

the outburst by congressman joe wilson has us asking, are we at the point where we can say the intense opposition to barack obama in some parts of the country is about more than health care reform? stimulus plan? is it also about ideology? regional differences and perhaps even race? what is more, wilson's remark and the support he has received in his south carolina district. is it threatening to harden the republican party's reputation right now inside the beltway? we'll talk to two members of congress in a moment. plus, september 11th is the reason we waged war in afghanistan, but eight years after we went in, what's our mission there today? nbc new chief foreign correspondent richard engel. and jim meceda. both have been in the region lately. and they'll give us their take on the present state of afghanistan. the debate over afghanistan is the latest development in an enormously important week for president obama that included health care and the skirmish over his back-to-school speech. white house spokesperson press secretary robert gibbs. since he didn't do a daily

briefing earlier today, we'll do one here. plus, with a nationally televised interview on sunday, after the big week, we'll ask are we seeing too much of president obama? that's all in "the politics fix." and it wouldn't be a political scandal without our friend david letterman tonight. joe wilson's top ten excuses in the "hardball sideshow." we'll begin with white house press secretary robert gibbs. sorry we didn't see you earlier today. we figured we would drag you out and make do you a mini version. >> i ended up in this room one way or the other, right? >> i want to play for you a familiar sound bite from the president's speech wednesday night. let's take a listen. >> while there remains some significant details to be ironed out, i believe a broad consensus exists for the aspect of the plan i just outlined. consumer protections for those with insurance, an exchange that allows individuals and small businesses to purchase affordable coverage, and a

requirement that people who can afford insurance get insurance. >> now robert, the president unveiled his plan on wednesday. it is the president's plan. you have it on your website. whitehouse.gov. it is only 3 1/2 pages right now. and he talk about, we saw the details. when are we going to see the details? as you found out in july and august when there weren't details provided by you guys, other people filled in the blanks and you guys didn't seem to like it. so when are we going to see it? >> no, no, chuck. let's go -- i wouldn't direct all your viewers to go to that website. there are plenty of details that the president has unveiled, actually, since coming to office. outlining how we're going to pay for this legislation by seeking and rooting out waste and fraud in medicare. taxing cadillac health care plans that are offered by insurance companies. that's just one aspect of many of the details that's in that legislation and, chuck, i think

you've seen people that have reacted to that speech have heard convincingly and clearly what the president stands for and what he wants to do on health care reform. >> clearly you have to fill in some blanks on everybody. it does seem this week you've been intent on making sure you're doing in the filling of those blanks. so when are we going to see more? should we expect to see the details of exactly where you get $500 billion out of medicare, for instance? >> well, chuck, i would refer you to the radio address we did in june which talks about that. we've directed the health and human services secretary to come up with proposals to address medical malpractice reform. we outlined a trigger this week that would say, we would not move forward with health insurance reform if savings weren't seen in the reform that we propose, and lastly we said

illegal immigrants wouldn't get health care. and we talked about that just a little bit in this room yesterday. i think the people who watched that speech, chuck, understand exactly what the president's for. and i think we had a very good week in getting health care a little closer to getting passed. >> let's talk about the politics of this. you want to get it passed. you're going to need some republicans. maybe it's only one at the end of the day but you're going to need at least one republican to get those 60 votes, for instance, in the u.s. senate. have you made any inroads reaching out to any more republicans besides maine republican olympia snowe? >> the president has talked with republicans in the last few days. the -- our health care coordinator has spoken with republicans. >> who has the president talked to in the last couple days? >> i'm not going to give you names because that poor person's phone would ring off the hook. but the president is reaching out to democrats and republicans to try to get this done. i think you saw the president on wednesday speak extensively

about how we can take the best ideas from both parties, put them together and ensure that americans that have insurance are protected and that insurance is stable and a pathway to providing access to affordable health care for the millions of people that don't have it in this country. >> i want to move on to another topic. today being september 11th. a lot of focus now on the war in afghanistan. the reason we went in for a lot of people, for the public, for a lot of people was to get al qaeda and get osama bin laden. osama bin laden is still out there. is that the measuring stick today? why is he still out there? and is it this administration's goal, we're going to get rid of that guy, then we win? what is the exact goal here in afghanistan? >> well, the large goal in afghanistan, in that region, is to disrupt, dismantle, and ultimately destroy al qaeda and any of its extremist allies. obviously, we know that's where the planning for the horrific

event that happened eight years ago started. they ended, unfortunately, over here in this country. we want to prevent that from taking place again. obviously, we are looking for and want to capture or kill osama bin laden. but i think that in and of itself can't be the total policy. obviously, there are a series of very bad people, terrorists bent on murdering thousands of americans that we also have to be focused on. i think this administration has been focused on that since coming in. and our goal again is to disrupt, dismantle, and destroy al chi it and its extremist allies. >> can you look at this, we have two enemies here, there is al qaeda, which has shown an ability to strike all around the world. and then there is the taliban which is a regional threat. a threat to pakistan. clearly a problem for stability there in both pakistan and afghanistan. but if you feel comfortable that you've disrupted al qaeda, destroyed al qaeda, at what point do you sit there and say,

you have to sit there until you've destroyed the taliban? are they an enemy that can be destroyed? >> that's why we talk about al qaeda and its extremist allies. people like the taliban that seek to destabilize afghanistan. that seek to destabilize pakistan. which sew the seeds for terror in places between those two countries and provide safe haven for plotters and planners for future attacks. chuck, look, i think we have to disrupt and dismantle both al qaeda and extremist allies. >> you've been getting bipartisan support. more from republicans, it seem like, on your policy on of stan. is this a concern of this white house that politically, a lot of leaders in your own party, speaker pelosi yesterday, you had senator levin, very nervous about the idea of trying to frankly get support in congress to send more combat troops to afghanistan. how much is the president going

to start working on the politics on that in his own party? >> well, look. chuck, let's take a long view of what the president has done in the transition before being even sworn in. the president asked that we reassess and re-evaluate our strategy in afghanistan. obviously we've been there a long time and it wasn't working. in the lead-up to those important elections, the president authorized more than 20,000 additional troops to bring some security and stability to the region in preparation for that election. we replaced the commander on the ground in afghanistan, and the president asked for a review and an assessment of where our strategy was. that assessment has now come back. but as i said this morning, chuck, there is no imminent timetable for additional troop decisions. there wasn't one before and there isn't one now. it will be many, many weeks before the president gets to any sort of decision about that. we're working through these initial assessments of what

general mcchrystal has seen on the ground of afghanistan after being there for two months. >> is it fair for members of congress before they're asked to vote on sending more combat troops that they see a detailed exit strategy from the administration? >> well, this administration is working with congress on establishing benchmarks for the description and the destroying of al qaeda and its extremist network. >> we should determine that as an exit strategy? >> no. >> i think the benchmarks are one way of measuring and very important way. and one we need to measure our strategic progress toward those goals. the president has said we will not be in this region of the world forever. we don't have the resources and manpower to do that. we don't have the resources in the budget to do that. we have to focus our goals, and i think that's what the administration will continue to do in assessing the situation. >> earlier today, there was an incident -- some reports about a

training exercise with the coast guard. at the time there was some confusion about what was going on. some media reports. do you think the coast guard should have put off that training exercise given that today is the anniversary of 9/11, or is this an issue with the media? >> well, look, i think there have been people in the government that have asked the coast guard for an explanation about their training activities today. chuck, i will tell you that -- >> are you satisfied with that explanation from the coast guard? >> i think that is -- they're still working on that to make sure we have an adequate explanation. but i will tell you, chuck, watching the television, i left the meeting based on what was being reported on the television which turned out to be errone s erroneous. it was false. i think it alarmed far too many people on something, on a day in which obviously we remember the event that happen. and i do wish that some of the people that reported that incident might have taken a

little bit of time to check and see whether what they were reporting was accurate. you may not be the first person with the story but you may be the first person to report the story accurately. i think that's what people need to look for here. and i'm sorry they missed that in scaring people. >> professor gibbs, you're going to be a journalism professor before the day is through, i guess. >> i'd be happy to teach the class. >> i bet. we'll see you monday. coming up, eight years after the attacks of september 11th, 2001, president obama may want to send more troops to afghanistan. top democrats have their doubts. we'll get the latest on how the war is going there and what will it take to win it and what is victory? ever worn your clothes in the shower? if you're using other moisturizing body washes, you might as well be. you see, their moisturizer sits on top of skin, almost as if you're wearing it. only new dove deep moisture has nutriummoisture, a breakthrough formula with natural moisturizers...

that can nourish deep down. it's the most effective natural nourishment ever. new dove deep moisture with nutriummoisture. superior natural nourishment for your skin. but i've still got room for the internet. with my new netbook from at&t. with its built-in 3g network, it's fast and small, so it goes places other laptops can't. i'm bill kurtis, and i've got plenty of room for the internet. and the nation's fastest 3g network. gun it, mick. (announcer) sign up today and get a netbook for $199.99 after mail-in rebate. with built-in access to the nation's fastest 3g network. only from at&t. need a lift?

hey buddy, i appreciate the ride, you know. no problem. ♪ mind if i take a shortcut? yeah, sure. ♪ i knew the subaru legacy was the smart choice... what i didn't expect... was the fun. the all-new subaru legacy. feel the love. the all-new subaru legacy. i heard about him from all the other girls. we were working at the same company. and she was something else. announcer: take care of each other, and your health. with nature made cholestoff. cholestoff helps lower ldl cholesterol, the bad kind, naturally, by using the same types of phytonutrients found in nuts, grains, fruits, and vegetables. he makes me laugh. he still does, but it's nice. announcer: learn how to lower your cholesterol, naturally, at cholestoff.com.

available in stores now.

welcome back to "hardball." president obama visited the pent con today to commemorate the attacks of september 11th eight years ago. eight years after we went in the taliban staged a comeback. the top u.s. commander in afghanistan is expected to ask for more combat troops, but a growing chorus of democrats is signaling potential opposition to any increased combat troop levels. nbc's chief correspondent, richard engel, returned from afghanistan today. nbc news's jim maceda traveled to afghanistan more than a month ago. two folks who have been on the ground. richard, let me start with you. you come home today and what do see? the political debate about more troops. you've been on the ground there. do you see the need, yourself,

from what you're observing and what commanders are telling you about the need for more troops? >> i think it is mainly what commanders are saying. it is very hard to get an accurate picture nationwide about if there should be more troops. i'm not a general. it would be presumptuous to say. i was just in southern afghanistan and what i did see was a lot of american soldiers and not very many afghan troops. and i was with one particular company. there were about 100, 150 americans and they only had 20 or 30 afghan soldiers. so they were very limited by what they could do. they were not allowed to search homes. only afghans were able to go into other afghan homes. it's considered culturally incensensitive otherwise. we had american troops sitting around waiting for the afghans to show up. and that is a serious problem. also in the north, i think there is a lot of room for nato to step up. there are tens of thousands of nato soldiers and a lot of them, frankly, aren't doing very much. and i hear that time and time again from commanders that the

italian troops are doing very little. the german troops are doing very little. some of them never even leaving their bases. one widely published study that most german soldiers serving in nato in afghanistan are actually fatter because all of the beer that they're drinking than the average german citizen. so i think there is a lot of room for growth there as well. >> jim, being that you're also in london, they've got their own political problems when it comes to troops, sending more troops or having troops in afghanistan and what the role of nato is. what is the role of nato from what you saw over there? and is there, you know, is there the political will with our european allies to help us out more? >> well, i think there's a tremendous amount of political will when you're talking about great britain. there's no question that briton understands what's at stake. the cooperation between british soldiers and u.s. soldiers, specifically u.s. marines, i

came out of helmand province a few weeks ago and i was at one point embedded with unit that was partially british, partially american, and those forces got along extremely well. the brits were fighting the fight. they were using less armored kit, as they say. their equipment was not quite a enviable as ours was, but they got the job done. when i asked them if they wanted more helicopters because there was a great controversy in great britain about resourcing these troops. they said, no, we don't need more helicopters, we don't need more armor. simply what we need to do is continue the fight that we're fighting. >> jim, who is the enemy? who do the troops say is the enemy? do they believe they're fighting the taliban, al qaeda? both? who is the enemy? >> the troops, u.s. troops will tell you that the enemy is a combination of all of the above. it's al qaeda and they are not of the opinion like some of the

pun ditss that al qaeda is only in pack san and everyone else is in afghanistan. they're fighting a fight that has no borders. that line of 1893 does not exist for the pashtun tribal and armed fighters. so they say it is al qaeda. al qaeda affiliates. al qaeda friends. there are also jihadist fighters like the hachani family and others, who are, in fact, liaisons between al qaeda and the taliban, between afghanistan and pakistan over that border area. so they're fighting a network. they're fighting a base. they're fighting a group of fighters, and fundamentalists. they're not just fighting al qaeda. >> richard, who runs afghanistan right now? we know there is an election. we know there will be a run-up. they're still trying to count the ballots.

does the karzai government have full control of that country? and if it doesn't -- is the karzai government a reliable partner for the united states? >> right now no one is in charge of afghanistan and that's a problem, what has been considered a failed election last month has left the country with a huge power vacuum. right now according to the constitution, karzai does not have the authority to run the country. he is just operating on sort of borrowed time frame. his mandate for power actually expired the day the elections were held. so if, right now, one of his ministers or one of his governors decided they didn't want to obey karzai's mandate, they would be perfectly able to do that. they're just giving him a bit of a grace period. that is a serious problem. when you have such a fragile political leadership, and more and more accusations that this election, particularly by karzai supporters, was manipulated, and

no real legal basis to hold a government, then it's a problem to the united states because the united states doesn't have a partner. it's not that they're looking for a reliable partner, as you asked. they just don't have any partner. there's nobody home. >> jim, i want to talk -- you were saying you've comparisons, insurgencies of sorts. what's going on now in afghanistan. and what are the similarities and differences to what our soldiers are facing in afghanistan to what they faced in iraq during the height of the insurgency there? >> well, that's right. i was thinking about this earlier and i would put afghanistan right now where we are in afghanistan to where u.s. forces were in iraq, right around the beginning of 2007. it's at a time when there were initial so-called surge operations but it would take another five or six months before we really saw any kind of tangible, positive changes. it was the time when the k.i.a.s

killed in action were just sky rocketing. support for the army, for the operation at home was plummeting. and there was a political void as richard just described at the top. the government in baghdad was absolutely paralyzed just as the government in kabul is paralyzed for different reasons. so i think it is an uncanny situation. and very, very much parallel to what we saw and question saw big changes occur after that. >> and i have to go quickly but i want to ask you, can parts of the taliban be bought off the way parts of the sunnis were bought off in iraq? richard, i ask you. do you buy that the taliban could get essentially bought off by the americans? >> i think people who have have been fighting if they accommodate. i don't think they're going to be bought off by the sunnis in iraq. it was the sunnis in iraq who asked for american help. they were being threatened by al

qaeda from the outside. they came -- >> taliban's not asking. >> the taliban is fighting its own fight. if you give them jobs, sure, a lot of them will put down rifles for now. they're certainly not coming to american in help looking for protection. >> richard engel, jim ma said do, you guys put your lives on the line for nbc news. know all of us over here appreciate it all the time. up next, david letterman's got congressman joe wilson's top-ten excuses for why he yelled you lie at president obama. that's next in "the sideshow." how many washes did it take cheer brightclean to get this from dingy to bright? ten. seven. it's six. why? why is... one... yeah! hundred. no. cheer brightclean. cheer brightclean. might not be the best time to sell a home. but we just can't wait for the market to heat up. (woman) need to sell? re/max agents have the experience to get the job done. nobody sells more real estate than re/max.

where do you want to be?

almost 30 years behind the sports desk has turned me into somebody larger than life, literally. but those days are back-back-back-back-back gone! i'm chris berman, and i lost 41 pounds with nutrisystem. just order nutrisystem for men today to get four weeks of awesome food, and learn how to get three extra weeks free. let's go to the highlights. mike "all i ate was golic bread": down, 51 pounds. don "blue suede" shula: down 32 pounds. dan "glam man" marino: lost 22 pounds. guys, you can do this. you'll get four weeks of satisfying meals, for less than 12 bucks a day. that's 140 rib-sticking meals. my goal was 40 pounds, and look, he could...go...all...the...way! if i can lose the weight, you can lose the weight. that's 105 meals free.

call or click now. back to "hardball." tonight's "sideshow" has a special campaign twist because

i'm involve first down and dirty in jersey. ed, right? that race between democratic governor jon corzine and republican chris christy is perhaps the marquis battle. both sides are going all out for the win. case in point, check out whose name pops up in this ad for christy, the republican in the case? >> last year i vote for obama because i wanted change. this year i'll supporting christie. >> do you want to change trenton? >> i want to change trenton. >> we can start by changing governors. >> interesting. it works for folks. you're trying to appeal to obama voters or disenchanted obama voters. who knows. moving on to south carolina. it looks like congressman joe wilson has a tough re-election. in 2010. at least financially. his democratic challenger rob miller has raised an amazing $811,788 off of wilson's you lie on wednesday night. guess what? he is hoping for his own campaign boost. you can see he bought a big-time

ad on the popular uber-drudge report and he is gets plenty of traffic himself. speaking of wilson, dave letterman took his outburst and spun it into not shockingly comedic gold last night. let's take a listen. >> guess what the category is here? top ten representative joe wilson excuses. already has excuses. number ten. shouldn't have gone tailgating before the speech, i guess not. number four, yeah, accused a politician of lying. what was i thinking? and number three, i thought it was a roast. that's what i was thinking. number two. it's been weeks since a republican politician embarrassed the state of south carolina. and the number one south carolina representative joe wilson excuses, nobody cared when mccain yelled bingo. there it is right there. >> what do they say, at least spell his name right. hardy welcome to newest member of the senate. george la mu from million million. my home state.

there he is being sworn in yesterday by the vice president. he is now the youngest united states senator. good for him. time for "the big number." governor mark sanford is weathering quite the political storm in south carolina. can he hold on? why not check with some oz makers? our friends over in the dublin-based intrade.com. according to them, they actually have odds on this. the chances mark sanford will leave office by the end of the year are at 36%. they obviously are falling this race very closely because sanford doesn't want to go anywhere. the online traders are betting mark sanford, saying there's just a 36% chance he'll leave the governor's mansion. we'll see. there could be impeachment hearings. that's tonight's "big number." up next, the debate over health care has largely been overshadowed this week by congressman joe wilson's outburst. should wilson apologize on the floor of the house? and what does his outburst and the support he's getting in some quarters symbolize about the backlash he's getting against

president obama? of 10 inch hose clamp pliers. you know what's complicated? shipping. shipping's complicated. not really. with priority mail flat rate boxes from the postal service shipping is easy. if it fits, it ships anywhere in the country for a low flat rate. that's not complicated. come on. how about...a handshake. alright. priority mail flat rate boxes only from the postal service. a simpler way to ship. when she started forgetting things, i was hoping it was nothing. grandma! what a nice surprise! mom, it's sunday. that's when i knew i couldn't wait. mom's doctor said these were signs of alzheimer's, a type of dementia, and that prescription aricept could help. he said it's the only treatment proven effective... for all stages of alzheimer's. studies showed aricept slows the progression... of alzheimer's symptoms.

it improves cognition... and slows the decline of overall function. aricept is well tolerated but not for everyone. people at risk for stomach ulcers... or who take certain other medicines... should tell their doctors... because serious stomach problems... such as bleeding may get worse. some people may experience fainting. some people may have nausea, vomiting, diarrhea, bruising, or not sleep well. some people may have muscle cramps... or loss of appetite or may feel tired. in studies, these were usually mild and temporary. mom. talk to your doctor about aricept. don't wait. alzheimer's isn't waiting.

call or click today.

i'm milissa rehberger. here's what's happening. a million dollar reward offered in california for information leading to the recovery of tens of millions of dollars worth of art. paintings stolen from a home in west los angeles earlier this month. the coast guard is not apologizing but does promise to take a hard look at their decision to carry out a training exercise on the po talkic river this morning. radio chatter overheard during the exercise led to false reports the coast guard had opened fire on a suspicious vessel. also a place not far where president obama was marking the 9/11 attack on the pentagon. space shutting "discovery" on the way to a landing in the golden state.

two days of bad weather. we'll have more at 8:50 eastern time here on msnbc. welcome back to "hardball." "you lie." those two words make congressman joe wilson a household name this week. he apologized and the president accepted. now nbc kelly o'donnell reports that aides to house speaker nancy pelosi say if wilson does not apologize on the house floor next week then the house will likely introduce a resolution of disapproval. in a minute, we'll talk to republican congressman brian bilbray of california. first i have a member of the democratic leadership right here, south carolina congressman jim clyburn, majority whip.

okay. you guys were talking about doing this resolution on the house floor if he does not go to the well and apologize. is that correct? >> that's correct. like he should. >> what is a -- i've heard of censure. i've heard of impeachment. i've heard of all sorts of things. there is an official disapproval that you can do? has this been done before? who was the last person? >> yes, there were three categories we talk a lot about. expulsion, censure and reprimand. disapproval, understand, is a much lesser punishment, but i asked the house leadership that is the democratic leadership to consider disapproval rather than any others. there are a lot of people in our caucus pushing for censure even beyond reprimand. >> you believe this is a compromise? >> i think this is a compromise. i asked them to consider disapproval. >> let me ask you something as a native of the south. does the president have a southern problem? we see a lot of polling.

he is more unpopular in the southern part of this country than in other places. it is somewhat traumatic. does he have a problem in the south? what would you tell him to do to fix it? >> well, there's a long history in our country about the problem that we have in the south. we all know that. his election, of course, i think -- >> you say we all know that. a long problem? >> we have a long problem with race in the country. and it's interesting -- i've seen all of these clips today about how the long history of the south carolinians have with decorum in the congress. >> he didn't bring a cane. >> he didn't bring a cane but remember that whole incident was all over slavery.

we still have these issues to deal. with. >> do you think it is too simplistic? to put it all up to race? >> absolutely. a lot of it is about economics. a lot of it is about our current state of affairs. and the fact that we are faced with this significant, or these significant problems with an african-american in the white house complicates things a little more. you cannot just say it's race. it has a lot of other implications as well. >> the president hasn't visited any southern states yet, outside virginia which is just across the river. and politically, has seceded from the south. if you want to talk about it culturally. >> has been to north carolina. >> he hasn't spent a lot of time in southern states that he didn't win. would you like to see him show up there? would that cut down on the hostility? 4. >> i think it would. i think south carolina would be a good place for that. >> your district, i'm sure. is that what you're saying? >> his wife, her roots, her

grandfather was from the sixth congressional district of south carolina. and i think that there are many instances, requests have been made for either one of them or both to come to the state. and i think the president could do a whole lot of good in this regard if we were to take a hard look at when he and she, or he or she would come to south carolina. >> spending more time in the south. okay. you're the vote counter. you're the guy in charge of saying we have the votes, we don't have the votes. health careful are we going to see somebody introduce the president's health care bill? are you going to have somebody put together, hey, we have to put the president's plan on the famili floor of the u.s. house. is that going to happen? >> yes, that's going to happen. >> who is putting that together? >> the speaker is. she is working with the three committees. >> they want to take the president's blueprint and turn it into the house bill, correct? >> absolutely. we have one eye on the senate.

he made it very clear. >> wait for that. >> absolutely. >> thanks giving is when the vice president said you would have a health care bill. is that a fair deadline? >> i think so. i think i agree with that will. >> thanksgiving. thank you very much. >> thank you very much for having me. let's look at what congressman joe wilson had to say on his campaign website thursday. let take a listen. >> there are those who claim that our reform efforts would ensure illegal immigrants. this, too, is false. the reforms i'm proposing would not apply to those who are here illegally. >> that's a lie! >> not true. >> that was a wrong clip. let quickly play the right clip with congressman joe wilson and his response to the uproar over that moment on wednesday. take a listen. >> the supporters of the government takeover of health

care and the liberals who want to give health care to illegals are using my opposition as an excuse to distract from the critical questions being raised about this poorly conceived plan. they want to silence anyone who speaks out against it. they made it clear they want to defeat me and pass the plan. i need your help now. if you agree with me that the government-run health plan is bad medicine for america, then i ask for your support. >> with us now, california republican congressman brian bilbray from the san diego area. thanks for coming on. >> great to be with you, chuck. >> okay. the house democratic leadership wants to introduce this resolution of disapproval so it is not a censure. if congressman wilson doesn't go to the floor of the house and apologize, why -- do you think congressman wilson should go to the floor? >> i think he should. >> you think he should? >> he should point out that he not only made a mistake, but he thought the president was talking about the house bill he saw.

he knew that twice the democrat ig party said no. we're not going to check if illegals are on or not. he made the mistake of thinking like a lot of us did that the president was talking about the house bill. the waxman bill. when the president, obviously, when you get to the end of the speech, this man is obviously not talking about the bill we have before us in house of representatives and only now do we generally know the president was speaking of what he hopes to come out of the senate very soon. >> you've been very vocal about this issue of coverage about illegal immigrants in the health care bill. it sounds like you're giving the president the ben dit of the doubt. you're waiting to see it show up on the house floor. >> when i heard the president made that statement, i had the same mistake that joe did. only i didn't say anything. the fact is that anybody listening at that time would have that, wait a minute. the president is dead wrong. he hasn't looked at the bill. he hasn't looked at the congressional research service that says illegals will be able to participate in the house bill. unless you check, unless you do verification to make sure people aren't illegal, you know by history that illegals are going

to have it. he was actually talking about another bill. >> square this circle for me. it seems like there's unanimity on this issue between democrats and republicans. nobody wants to give somebody who is not an american citizen u.s. tax dollars, subsidizing whatever to get health care. but square this circle. emergency room in san diego. what do you do? what do you do? >> $600 million is costing just in my county. first, what do you do? >> do you tell an emergency room, show me your i.d.? >> no, but you then at least notify when you go in. this isn't just illegals. you have foreign national that's come in from tijuana go in to emergency rooms. and they still get a border crossing card. but i think the big issue here is you've got to understand that checking, using the same system that the new president has implemented for contractors, that you check over e-verify. you check and make sure everyone who is participating in the program is legal. but because the game, oh, we'll

say nobody is allowed to do it unless they're legal but we are not going to allow you to check. as soon as you do that, this is a shell game people are frustrated with. and i think it showed with joe's outburst. >> what should an emergency room do? reject? i guess what i'm saying -- i understand, you know, doctors take this hippocratic oath, okay, to care for anybody. somebody has to pay for that care if they do this. >> chuck, in the '90s i introduced a bill, we had it passed, to get the federal government, who's the deadbeat dad here who mandates you provide the services and is responsible for illegals being here. the federal government ought to be reimbursing those hospitals for providing health care. that's our responsibility. this is one of those things. >> you're okay with the federal government paying for it? >> the federal government ought to be paying for the thing that they're responsible for now before we start promising more. we don't even pay for the cost of providing this mandated health care. we don't pay for the fact that we're responsible for the illegals being in this country.

and we're not doing that. and we're already talking about making more promises. i think that's where the american people say take care of business that you've got now before you start making any more big promises. >> you're a californian. you've seen your party not do well statewide. it has been a struggle for republicans in the state. arnold schwarzenegger being the exception. do you worry about the image of the republican party nationally making it that much harder for republicans in california to stage a political comeback? >> i think the comeback is natural. there's a eben flow here. i'm a surfer. i know when the tide goes in, it will come out. if you want to know when a tidal wave is coming, it is not when the water gets high, it's when the water seems super low and never coming. then you have the opportunists who are trying to take the low lying fruit and pick up what's easy. >> you're not concerned about the image right now? >> i think the image is one that we have to address. we see that with our gubernatorial candidates. they're looking great, but, again, you have to really mock sure the extremists on the left

may cause a backlash. you're seeing a backlash right now where independents are coming to the republican side, not because they like the republican party but because they don't like to see what the extremists and democrats are doing. >> thanks very much. thank you for your views. up next, a huge divide over how people in the south view president obama versus those other parts of the country. southerners tend to be more republican and conservative. does this backlash against the president have to do with race? we're going to get into that next in "the politics fix." a wo. a finely-tuned machine. a sanctuary. a command center. ( both revving ) a sophisticated sedan. a sports car. together. nissan maxima, the four-door sports car. now get a new nissan maxima for 0% apr financing for 60 months. for 0% apr financing [ sighs ] whoo-hoo!

this hair color is a washout. try nice'n easy with color-blend technology. in 1 step, get a blend of 3 tones. highlights, lowlights, and shine. it makes a fresh, light-filled frame for your pretty face. nice'n easy. your right color. (announcer) what are you going to miss when you have an allergy attack? achoo! (announcer) benadryl is more effective than claritin at relieving your worst mptoms. and works when you need it most. benadryl. you can't pause life. getting an early flu shot is the best thing you can do... to protect you and your loved ones from the flu. it's also one of the easiest things you can do... because walgreens is now offering seasonal flu shots... every day of the week with convenient hours guaranteed. so you can just stop in.

our 16,000 dedicated pharmacists... and take care clinic nurse practitioners... are waiting to help you beat the flu... in neighborhoods nationwide. at walgreens we want you to know, there's a way to stay well. at walgreens we want you to know, it's an idea that makes america strong. it's a fair day's pay for a hard day's work. it's health insurance when you're sick or injured. it's job security to provide for your family. it's the fabric of a sound economy. it built the middle class. and it's what the employee

free choice act is all about... letting workers choose to join a union to earn better pay and benefits. the employee free choice act. it's time the economy worked for everyone again. we're back with "the politics fix." i have joan walsh.

editor of salon. and mark mckinnon writes for the taillybeast.com. and as a republican strategist and work very closely to elect president george w. bush. mark, i want to start with you because you have the column of the day, i believe, of the two of them. no offense, joan. you write on "the daily beast, n pay, because as long as louts can spout out of and call the president a liar, then louts will continue to spout off. it is, as you go on -- you want to start republicans for rob miller, who is the democrat, who is challenging him. you're talking about trying to get rid of all partisans who are a little out of the main stream, is that your agenda here, mark? >> i think that's the only thing that works at the end of the day, chuck. we have ongoing discussions and frustrations about the partisanship we see in politics, but as long as people like joe wilson keep getting re-elected, they get rewarded by their behavior if they keep their seat. so i think the only way we address this is to go to the ballot box and throw these bums

out of congress. and that's only way we're going to restore civil dialogue to the political environment. >> all right, but, joan, there are some that are going to hear that and they're going to say, well, there goes the media or there goes people -- >> that liberal mark mckinnon. >> well, no, but there they go, trying to -- they don't understand how the left and the right works and they love the middle, they love bipartisanship. and they just don't understand the passion that's on the left and the right. fair? >> you know what, i think that's somewhat fair. i do worry -- basically, i agree with mark. if we could get rid of the joe wilsons of the world, the world would be a better place. he's a weasel, a liar, he disrespected the president. however, i'm a little bit worried right now that we're making joe wilson into a martyr. as you said, top of the show, east now raising more money. people are coming to his defense and i, you know, i think that there's a divide in this country. i think he's in the minority, obviously, since president obama

won, who will not give this president respect and who cannot -- his supporters cannot be convinced by anything you or mark or i will say. >> mark, you're in that little blue dot of texas that's called austin as far as the red and blue is concerned, but is this a southern -- is this a southern phenomenon, mostly, when it comes to this problem with the president and his critics? >> well, if you're talking about it shall of race, i agree with congressman clyburn. i think that's a factor, certainly, but i think this is driven much more by ideology, culture, and economics. you know, that's what's creating the divide in this country, much more so than race. i think that the republican party would have nominated colin powell had he run for president and there's a very good chance he would have been president of the united states. also, i think, by the way, that joe wilson would have called john edwards a liar if john edwards were the democratic president today. >> i'm not sure of that. we've never seen anything like this. >> guys, we're going to jump in

and go to a quick break and we're going to do more of this, more of the politics fix with mark mckinnon and joan walsh. we'll be back. welcome to the now network. right now five coworkers

are working from the road using a mifi-- a mobile hotspot that provides up to five shared wi-fi connections.

two are downloading the final final revised final presentation. - one just got an email. - woman: what?! hmph. it's being revised again. the copilot is on mapquest. and tom is streaming meeting psych-up music - from meltedmetal.com. - ( heavy metal music playing ) that's happening now with the new mifi from sprint-- the mobile hotspot that fits in your pocket. sprint. the now network. deaf, hard-of-hearing, and people with speech disabilities access www.sprintrelay.com. the mobile hotspot that fits in your pocket. sprint. the now network. i have to climb stairs 20-30 times a day. now joint comfort is easier with new triple flex liquid softgels. the first liquid softgel joint supplement formulated to work in as little as 7 days.

all right. we're back with a little bit longer segment now with republican strategist mark mckinnon and salon's joan walsh. joan, i cut you off. i'll let you finish your thought there. go ahead. >> oh, i lost my train of

thought. >> fair enough. let's talk about this bigger issue of polarization and the problem inside washington and much of it is in the media, maybe we're all making too much of it. mark, i'll start with you. you know, president bush, you know, one of the reasons i think that you have said you were attracted to then governor bush or candidate for governor, george w. bush was that he was trying to be a bipartisan leader. he couldn't do it here. he didn't -- some would say he polarized this place. but president obama ran on sometimes the same message, saying he was going to be post-partisan and he's already finding it difficult. is it washington? it just can't be done? >> it's interesting, chuck. i actually recommended that some reporters go back and look at the early campaign speeches of george w. bush and barack obama and all their language about changing the tone in washington and trying to work for bipartisanship was very similar. now, we know that that broke down under both presidents and i argue that a part of that, at

least, was the fact that we had a recount and many democrats never saw george w. bush as a legitimate president, and that just poisoned the well from the very beginning. but i think the fact that president obama, who campaigned on a similar message of change and restoring some to politics in washington and we could see the difficulties that he's having suggest that it is a washington problem. and, you know, we can ascribe a lot of things to it. jerry mandarin of districts, hyper media coverage, but i go back to my point. the only way we're going to change the behavior of the elected officials is if we send them the message that they're going to get sent home and they'll have to pack their bags unless they change. >> joan win mean, is there a -- do you sit there and say, you know what, your friends, you know, the folks on the left ought to be careful. you don't want to makee