>> we will not go back to the days of reckless behavior and unchecked excess that was at the heart of this crisis. plus, no more apologies. congressman joe wilson says he is done saying sorry after his outburst during the president's address to congress. but will house leaders demand more action? we will talk live to a congressman who wants wilson to fight back. breaking news in the murder of yale student, annie le. police say they know who killed her. le's body was found stuffed in a campus building wall on the day she was supposed to be married. we are live with the late breaking details. no mercy for drivers. cash-strapped cities targeting parked cars more than ever. soaring ticket prices, more meter maids and more drivers getting the boot. are city officials crossing the line? yo, taylor, i'm really happy for you, i'm gonna let you finish, but beyonce had one of the best videos of all time. >> kanye's swift insult much the

rapper rudely interrupting the country star's vma moment and it did not end there all that and more, now on the big picture. good afternoon, everybody, good afternoon, tamron, i'm david shuster live in washington. >> i'm tamron hall live in new york. we have breaking news on the house floor involving congressman joe wilson. go live to kelly o'donnell on capitol hill. kelly, a lot of the weekend conversation who would apologize and who would not and now we have got some movement here. what happened? >> reporter: exactly that tamron, people who wanted to see joe wilson go to the podium on the house floor and say i'm sorry. he a appeared on the house floor and ready to talk but apology was not on his mind. he, instead, wanted to talk about some of his experiences during the august recess, he saw the largest town hall meetings in south carolina history, that was his claim. he described people there as passionate. he went on to say that in his view, people want health care reform but not what he called a government-run takeover.

so, what wilson wanted to do was defend the underlying position that he had that erupted in that much controversial outburst during the president's speech last week. now, democrats in leadership say that because wilson has refused to apologize for his breach of decorum that they are drafting a resolution of disapproval and as early as tomorrow, that could be brought it to the house floor for a vote, where he would be publicly reprimanded by his colleagues. wilson says he is done apologizing, said the president send the apology he accepted wednesday night and that's that, but house leadership, of course, they are democrats, say that it was more than that, that an apology to the white house is not sufficient, that he needed to apologize to his colleagues for embarrassing the house of representatives. tam ron? >> and interestingly enough, kelly, congressman wilson, been pointed out that he was wrong in his accusation that the president had lied, but he took credit this weekend for changes being made to ensure that illegal immigrants do not have

the opportunity to get health care, he took a lot of credit for what he says, tougher talk in legislation possibly. >> well with it has been a complicated issue because the president was speaking about his intentions for a plan and wilson was reacting to house legislation that's already been written. and democrats and republicans agree that this health care reform explicitly says there should nobody benefits to illegal immigrants but republicans like wilson have said what has been written lacks enforcement. and i can tell you that on the senate side that one committee we are waiting to hear from, they have been taking that criticism seriously and say they are going to write into their bill protections that would require proof of citizenship before getting any benefits. so wilson's remarks did set off a series of actions. >> we will see what happens next. thank you, kelly. the big picture this hour, president obama was on wall street today to give a major speech on our economy, one year after the collapse of lehman brothers. the president spoke at the historic federal hall and had this warning for wall street.

>> i want everybody here to hear my words. we will not go back to the dives reckless behavior and unchecked excess that was at the heart of this crisis. too many were motivated only by the appetite for quick kills and bloated bonuses. those on wall street cannot resume taking risks without regard for consequences and expect that next time, american taxpayers will be there to break their fall. but the old ways that led to this crisis cannot stand and to the extent that some have so readily returned to them underscores the need for change and change now. history cannot be allowed to repeat itself. >> the old ways, the president was talking about big bonuses, they are still being handed out n fact, goldman sachs put a i side $11 billion for bonuses this year and citigroup announced plans to pay $ 00 million bonus to one person. the risk, it is back as well. goldman sachs posted as 3

billion-plus profit in the second quarter after paying back the government $10 billion and was said one of the reasons for the big profit, risky trading. and a year later, some say the securities and exchange commission is still not up to the task of reining in the financial industry. the executive director for the white house task force is with us. jared, thanks for joining us. >> my pleasure. >> what has changed to make sure that the things the president just discussed won't happen again. what's changed? >> i think what's changed are the set of ideas that the president has put forth today having to do with consumer protection, having to do with the ability to resolution authority, the ability to resolve the kind of too big to fail or systemic risks that brought this committee to the brink of not recession but depression a year ago. i think what's changed is that the american people and the congress can easily see that the

steps that we've taken, the fed, the treasury department, this administration, have helped pull that economy from the brink. and unless we take further steps, the kind of rulemaking ideas that the president talked about today, to incentivize as well as to urge the responsibilities that he mentioned, we can easily be back here and that sun acceptable to this president. >> charlie, as far as, let's put aside the argument about what has helped in terms of helping the economy back from the brink. let's focus on reg reform, steps need to be taken to rein in wall street. the president said these things six months ago it appears the legislation is going nowhere. whose fault is that? >> well, i think that the focus -- i think what the president signalled today is that he is going to turn up the heat on this very issue. he has some very important supporters up there on capitol hill. he mentioned senator shelby. he mentioned barney frank.

there are a set of other lawmakers up there who are absolutely with the president on the necessity of moving financial regulation, reform this year. >> but jared, to make the other side of the case we know there are some very powerful lobbyist and people who are interested in keeping things the way they are. so while the president may have the names you just listed, there is another side of the coin that has influence as well? >> absolutely. and that is abundantly clear to anyone watching this. the point that the president was making today is that while there are always going to be folks trying to support the status quo a year ago, remember where that status quo got us. i think our best asset here, i think what's going to help the president, the congress, the folks who really get this to move it toward is the memory of how the global -- not just here, but the global financial market

was in danger of collapsing and it was only through a set of interventions to deal with the kind of risks that we face that we helped pull this back from the brink. we could, obviously, be there again if we don't take these steps. i think that was the message the president was sending today. >> all right, jared bernstein, thank you so much for joining us today. >> my apologies to jarred, i think i may have referred to him as charlie there we all know his name is jared. my apologize. the mix of today's focus on wall street, the administration's efforts on health care reform continue to intensify behind-the-scenes on capitol hill and also perhaps in public. the president will address the afl-cio convention in pittsburgh tomorrow and then on thursday, he will be holding a rally at the university of maryland and college park. mean time, the so-called gang of six, crucial bipartisan panel in the senate that has yet to draft a bill, they are meeting every day to try to find some common ground. senator max baucus can, the democratic chairman of the finance committee, believes republicans will wind up supporting the legislation.

>> i think basically as senators, the committee and the public gets to know more about this, their comfort level is starting to come up a bit and it's -- and i -- i believe that strongly and i do believe that in the end, we will have some significant bipartisan support. >> in the meantime there is some intriguing public polling and the public does appear split on the president's health care plan now. according to a brand new "washington post" poll, 46% support it, 48% are against. john harwood, cnbc's chief washington correspondent and political writer for "the new york times," also interviewing president obama later today. john, let's first talk about the politics in terms of the wall street regulation reform. explain the politics in terms of the president giving this speech today and what he hopes that does. >> well, he wanted to, as jared bernstein just said, wanted to turn up the heat on the issue. there was a little bit of finger-wagging by the president and that is because there is so

much of a popular strain in the country. robert gibbs told me a few weeks ago, the public thinks we are bailout heavy. the president is trying to correct that impression and said, yes, we have had the taxpayers step in and stabilize this system but we are going to change the way the system is so we don't have to do it again. >> as far as health care reform, olympia snowe, the republican from maine, said the public on also not be on the table yet some democratic senators who continue to insist there will beful what is your take on who's right there? >> i think it's interesting. not sure when owe litsch ya snowe says take the public option off the table she means what some interpreted her to mean. she talked about this trigger idea, in her mind that would take the public option off the table because the insurance market claims would be given a chance to work first and only after that was shown not to be successful would the option be triggered but some people believe that liberal democrats code up supporting an option like that because they could tell their constituents, yes, we have the public option as a

backstop. that is the argument for the triggered option as being kind of the sweet shot in between the two sides but it has yet to be seen whether or not, in fact, owe limp snowe's idea of that tryinger can come out of the finance committee, can clear the full senate and get to that conference committee where the final bill will be struck. >> and then finally, john, going to be sitting down with president obama later this afternoon, including a colleague we know from bloomberg news after you. if there was one question could you ask the president and guaranteed to get an answer that would make news, what would it be? >> boy, is there a question that would guarantee he would make news? >> suppose he could wave a imagine inc., wand and get him to answer what would you want to know? >> well, if i could wave a magic wand, put some truth serum in his veins and find out something that i want to know it is going to be exactly is your plan for long-term deficit reduction, for entitlement reform, social security, beyond what he is talking about in medicare and what are you going to do to bring that deficit down over the

long run? that is a very version difficult question. many people think tax increases will be require bud i'm sort of not expecting, david that would be first up on his answer if i scad question. >> john harwood from cnbc. john, great stuff as always. good luck with the interview. we will check in with you later to get the news out of it. tamron it is a fascinating day. the president trying to warn wall street that, look, they need to change their ways, as you pointed, out the legislation is stuck. >> people have great influence. talk more about it, david. saw the breaking news banner, we have some come into msnbc. law enforcement sources tell nbc news that police have a suspect in the murder of that yale university grad student. her name is annie le. the sources, david, say the suspect is a student and had defensive wounds and even failed a polygraph test. so far, i want to stress there have been no arrests in this case. in the meantime, a body believe tonight annie's was found yesterday vet day she was to be

married. the body was hidden in a wall in the high-security lab building where she worked and where she was last seen on tuesday. friends say obviously, they are devastated. >> this just sounds like a classic bad movie. i mean, from the start to the finish, i mean, just watching this thing unravel, it's just been a nightmare. and i can only imagine what the fiance must be going through right now. >> clint van zant is a former fbi profiler and msnbc analyst. clint, we are still waiting again for confirmation that a suspect is in custody, but certainly appears that they were able to track down at least a person of interest in this case rather quickly. >> well, i think it may have had this person of interest upwards of a day. what law enforcement and yale university was able to do is trace back and suggest, based upon the electronic key card, not only who had access to that laboratory that five-story, 120,000-square foot laboratory, but who had aspect -- who had

access to the basement area where annie was working, conducting experiments. so it seems like they have been able to identify who was down in that area and realize, too, whoever committed this horrific crime was comfortable, comfortable enough to be down there was comfortable enough to commit the crime and felt comfortable enough to take the time to hide her body before the killer escaped. >> clint, let's assume they do have somebody they consider a key suspect. they also have a crime scene they found. what are the steps police are taking right now, this hour to collect the evidence and make a match? >> you have got a couple of different crime scenes. we know earlier this week, we heard that items of clothing with blood was found stuffed up in a false ceiling, whether that is related or not, we don't know. we also know there was a a fire alarm that went off that the fbi indicated may have been set intentionally, but if the crime scene itself, where the victim's body was found, it is going to be the standard csi-type of investigation. they are looking for dna, they are looking for hair, they are

looking for fibers. and realize, you know this woman at 4'1/1", 90 pounds, she had written an article earlier this year in yale magazine suggesting that was a dangerous play, the community was, and part of it, her friends a say, was because of her diminutive size, she realized she could be a victim. yet we are told the current suspect has defensive wounds that means she probably fought like a tiger to save her own life. >> her wedding date just around the corner, do you think if this person had been following or obsessed with her that would play a part in them snapping, as she put it on her own website, she was about to marry her best friend? >> well, at least one police source indicated this is not a random crime. that suggests that at least there might have been some knowledge, might have known each other, students on campus there are two types of stalkers, one is the physical one who follows you, calls you, writes letters, leaves a dead fish in front of

your door. the other is somebody who has this emotional, psychological fantasy about you, a relationship with you. sometimes when they go forward, they try to put that in motion, they are rejected, there are people who just can't take no for an answer. we have yet to find out what the actual reason is, but there is no reason for murder. >> absolutely. clint, thank you very much for your perspective. david, absolutely sad story. we talk about the fact that that surveillance video showed her coming into the build bug never leaving and wondered how could that be. now we know. she has been there the entire time. >> tragedy. so many different levels. we expect more information to be coming out in the hours ahead. also, david, coming up, a new message from osama bin laden. it surfaced. hear what the terror leader has to say about po president obama and the u.s. efforts happening in afghanistan. plus, a key party protest in the nation's capital. are right-wing protests against president obama helping or

hurting the republican party. and david, what was he thinking? kanye west swarmed onto the stage, stealing the spotlight from a young country star and her big moment. we are going to take a look at the fallout for kanye and he is going to be on a big show tonight. will he apologize? the big picture is coming up right after the break. powerful anti-aging therapies that reduce the look of lines and pores, even tone, brighten, smooth, hydrate, and lock-in moisture, all in one clever little package of total effects.

we are back there is a new audio message allegedly from osama bin laden. >> in it he said that president obama is "less" to stop the war in afghanistan and vows to step up guerilla warfare in afghanistan. the 11-minute message over a picture of bin laden was posted over the internet and was released to mark the anniversary of the 9/11 attacks. we are joined by nbc news investigative producer and

terrorism analyst bob windrem. thanks for joining us. this was not actually on the anniversary of 9/11 that has come out after and might be telling about osama bin laden. >> this it is telling this is the first time we have had major tape like this, 9/11 message delayed beyond 9/11. most have come in the gafrs or on 9/11. and what this may indicate, according to u.s. intelligence officials, is that there is concern within for the security of bin laden, taking extra precaution. >> what is being said of osama bin laden using the words "powerless" with the president and afghanistan? >> meet the new boss, same as the old boss, trying to equate president obama with president bush, trying to equate the policies. the problem is that there is enough evidence out there to

indicate that people within the islamic world do not view them the same and i think there is, to a certain degree, as u.s. officials have told me, an "obama effect" within that community. so, whereas people are willing to give the obama administration an additional opportunity, al qaeda is trying to say, no, no, no, he is the same guy, he is an american. >> bob, it feels like every six months there is a claim from some foreign leader, some group, that, oh, bin laden must be dead, we haven't heard from him what is it about this particular audio that confirms, i don't know, talking about the current news events, what was it that confirmed that yes, this is bin laden and it was timeless? >> certainly a couple of references in there not as many as there normally r i think the other thing, david is that there has never been a case where one of these tapes has been purported to be bin laden and not turned out to be him.

to the point i was told today there is not even a lot of interest in validating them. they all appear to be and they all have been historically him. i think the other issue is that three weeks ago, we were told this tape was coming. normally, that means a 24 to 72-hour period before the tape actually arrives, the message in this case, it was not a tape, arrives. and in this particular case, what we had was a delay and that delay caused people to wonder, you know, what's going on with bin laden, not that he's dead but certainly that he is much more isolated than he has been. >> nbc's bob windrem. thank you. in the next hour, we will talk with nbc's richard engel, just returned from afghanistan about the growing debits on troop levels in that country, should we go strong or some have put it, should we go home? powerful lawmakers lining up to

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welcome back. take a look at this amateur video of a plane making a fiery emergency landing in germany. the plane was carrying 72 passengers, prominent german politician and five crew members. >> tamron, one of the crew members was injured and taken to the hospital. five passengers were treated for shock. officials say the pilot reported troubles with the landing gear and made several passes in front of the control tower before landing. by the way this all did happen today. of course, a couple hours ago.

these pictures broadcast on german tv tonight. >> incredible. coming up on "the big picture," while some in congress want another apology from congressman joe wilson over that "you lie" comment to president obama, one republican wants wilson to stand his ground. that congressman is steve keen and he is going to join us live. then, kanye west offers an apology to taylor swift for crashing her big mtv moment. ♪ bicycle, what are we waiting for? the flowers are blooming. the air is sweet. and zyrtec® starts... relieving my allergies... 2 hours faster than claritin®. my worst symptoms feel better, indoors and outdoors. with zyrtec®, the fastest... 24-hour allergy medicine, i promise not to wait as long to go for our ride. zyrtec® works fast, so i can love the air™. r hip-hop. ♪ that can strain your relationships and hurt yourody 'cause we'pride ♪ng a ride ♪ ♪ it's the credit roller coaster ♪

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part of a larger restructuring effort to save $1 billion. the company will be restructuring into five global business units and focus on stream lining the development of new drugs. big changes in store for disney world. executives announced the fame theme park will undergo major renovations which will nearly double the size of fantasyland. disney parks contribute $1 billion to the revenues but travel has lagged. that is it for cnbc business worldwide. back to msnbc. welcome back. i'm david shuster live in washington. >> i'm tamron hall live in new york. >> tam rip, going to get to congressman kang and his defense of joe wilson in a moment. as we wait for him to get all wired up in today's closeup, kanye west's outrageous behavior at last night's mtv video music awards. >> the rapper shocked the audience when he grabbed the spotlight from country singer taylor swift when she tried,

tried, to accept her award for best female music video. kanye let it know that somebody else deserved to win. >> i was dreaming about what it would be lake to win one of these some day i never felt it would happen. he is sing country music so so much for giving me a chance to win a vma award. i -- >> yo, taylor, i'm really happy for you, i let you finish, but beyonce had one of the best videos of all time. one of the best videos of all time. >> well, beyonce's hit "single ladies" -- i would have smacked him -- won video of the year and proving she, indeed, has just all the class in the world, beyonce gave taylor swift another chance to accept her award. >> i'd like for taylor to come out and have her moment.

>> msnbc.com pop culture and columnist courtney hazelett, huge spoof on this story. people on twitter going crazy on twitter. including pink, in that video. >> celebrity test and the public were outraged. good see people become outraged am some of the right things in these moments. in the context of joe wilson, serena williams and now this, when did people forget how to behave themselves? my opinion, that putting money in the swear swrar is punishment isn't going to work. there is a lack of decorum going on and millions of people and kids saying it is okay to grab attention like that. >> i would think that kanye west, a sad statement, probably has more influence on joe wilson

than the kids, kids are watching this and he is a repeat offender of bad behavior, but he released an apology on his blog. this is what he said, i'm so sorry to taylor swift and her fans and her mom. i'm in the wrong for going on stage and taking away from her moment. beyonce's video is the best of this decade. he is going to be on jay leno's new show tonight, prescheduled to perform with jay-z and rihanna. do we know if he is going to apologize on that show? mtv wanted him to apologize during the vmas. >> probably the appropriate thing to do i put money in the swear jar it is okay, i will go out and do it again. he will probably apologize again tonight, yes. the i shall issue here, for some reason, once you become a celebrity in many cases, not all, many, kanye west, 1 a, as if it is license to do whatever you want. this isn't called the kanye west awards show, it is the tv video music a awards. >> my ego.

>> we have fair warning. a real issue with behavior. >> as far as kanye's actual claim, was beyonce's the video best of the best? >> put a ring on it, david. put a ring on it. no it was a great video, of course. i think that nobody would dispute that fact, however, it wasn't up to him to decide and certainly wasn't his time or place. he wasn't on stage already. he wasn't presented. nobody asked you, kanye west, nobody asked you. >> objective as opposed to congressman wilson, which was not true, this is a subjective thing. >> right. >> but i tweeted, they should do a duet and -- >> retweeted and said it is already in the works. hear that this morning, every producer of every awards show is out there looking to get the two of them paired up for whatever shows remain this year. >> a duet, david. >> get excited. >> not since eminem and elton john. eminem had the gay slur and performed with elton john. >> nothing says i forgive you

like a duet. >> and west on jay leno's new show, 10 p.m. eastern time on nbc. david what, do you think taylor swift -- she is a kid, i'm sure startled and confused at that moment. >> stunned silence. >> what so co-she possibly do except say, okay, you want to say something, here is the microphone. as a veteran of the industry, sure she has a lot of respect for him and i'm sure she did for this moment. >> feel sorry for her, at a least beyonce gave her another moment to shine. and taylor swift will be on "the view" telling her side of the story. >> "the big picture" talking about bad behavior, the house of representatives is considering a formal reprimand for south carolina republican joe wilson who called president obama a liar during his prime time speech to congress last week. wilson spoke on the floor of the house just a short time ago but did not offer any apology. >> during my 25 years of serving the public in the state senate and congress, i have not seen such passionate events full of

patriots. 95% of whom support health insurance reform but not a government takeover. >> you recall that last week, wilson did apologize to the white house chief can of staff but said it was because he had been asked to do that by republican leaders. well, yesterday, wilson said he has no intention of apologizing a second time. >> i have apologized one time. the apology was accepted by the president, by the vice president, who i know. i have not -- not apologizing again. >> president obama was ask about the incident with congressman wilson on "60 minutes" last night. watch. >> this is part of the what happens. it just -- it becomes a big circus. instead of us focusing on health care, he apologized afterwards, which i think i appreciate yated. >> a congressional aide today tells nbc news that south carolina congressman james clyburn, a democrat, told wilson last week that rahm, referring to rahm emanuel is not a member of this body, again referring to

wilson's call to the white house chief of staff rahm emanuel to apologize to the president and suggesting that clyburn wants an apology to the lawmakers in the house. >> david, in the bigger picture, did congressman wilson's action embolden republicans fighting to defeat health care reform? congressman steve king of iowa has circulate adler to fellow house republicans urging them to come to wilson's defense. in part it reads, "we urge that you hold your ground against those who seek partisan advantage and reject all demand for additional redress. like you, we will not be muzzled." joining us live from capitol hill is the author of that letter, congressman stephen king of iowa. thanks for being with us. >> thanks for having me. >> what is the core of why congressman wilson shouldn't apologize to members of congress, not the white house, not rahm emanuel, not president obama, but the members of congress? >> the central piece of this, it was the president that was

speaking, it was the president's speech that was interrupted, it was the president speaking through the chief of staff which one member of congress talking to the white house, it was the president who send the apology and so if it is good enough for president obama and clearly he had his opportunity on "60 minutes" last night to call for an additional apology, did he not, no one else has a claim to an additional poll. that is is the central of the argument and joe wilson is the constant southern gentleman, an officer and a gentleman and everybody in the house of representatives knows it. >> congressman, let's suppose it was not the president who was speaking, suppose a floor speech you are giving and somebody in the audience interrupts you, is the damage just to you or is the damage to the institution to itself? >> they will say it is the damage to the institution. i think it does so, erodes the decorum of the institution. i have had democrats interrupt me many times on the floor of the house of representatives and we have the business of this country to move forward on. i haven't moved to take their words out when this happens. this thing needs to be put away, we have a country to run.

we shouldn't be mired in this. fair point, but give than the republican leadership, they were the ones who suggested that congressman wilson apologize on the house floor, wouldn't we have been able to move beyond this had congressman wilson followed their advice last week and simply gone to the well and said the same thing he said to rahm emanuel? >> i would stand with joe wilson on this. i think the apology went to the right place it went at the right time, as quickly as he could get off the floor, pick up the phone and call the white house, i understand he made that apology to drag this out any further or put congressman joe wilson, this officer and gentleman on a national contrition tour, like trent lott went on, would be a huge mistake for the country, a mistake for democrats to bring it up, as a matter of fact. >> in your letter you sent out, congressman, you said you had heard the president declare prominent politicians to be liars in his speech, for disagreeing with him on health care. and he, the president, was pointsing out what he says were myths about the proposals out there, but if i can recall, he didn't say that there were liars

amongst prominent politician and that's what you wrote in your letter. >> no i can say he said prominent politicians, they are lies, plain and simple and he was speaking specifically about the end of life panels. >> right. >> and he immediately followed with those who disagree with him on whether the health care proposal would fund illegals and joe wilson knows, as i know that there were two committee votes that blocked out any kind of certification process for citizenship and that also the congressional budget office and the congressional research services have all concurred with joe wilson and myself that the bill that passed out of committee in the house would fund illegals and there are dollar figures we can look at. >> congressman, just to be absolutely clear, let's go ahead and cite what have been three of the bills that did pass congress and said specifically, nothing in this subtitle shall allow federal payments for affordability credits on behalf of individuals who are not lawfully present in the united states. it seems pretty clear to most people that it means that illegal immigrants cannot get

any benefits. >> i would point out that the first bill that came to the floor, the only anybomnibus bil onby read a similar piece of language in the first paragraph, nothing in this, no earmarks in the bill, but the president signed over 5,000 earmarks in the bill, just because that language is there, there's no provisions to keep the funding from illegals. we had that language. it was in the medicaid provision and taken out under the schip legislation we propose to put it back in the health care bill, voted down 29-28, energy and commerce committee and vote downed on a party line in the ways and means committee. democrats know what they are doing they want to fund i will heels and this is simply a red herring. >> comeman steve king of iowa, thank you very much for your time today, sir. david, i suspect this continue the main reason, both sides are benefits, joe wilson bringing in

nearly $1 million. the gentleman running against him urge the marine, rod miller, he is at the million dollar mark. and we saw that group of people who showed up in washington over the weekend arranged lot of them were holding up those "you lie" signs. both sids are finding traction and perhaps most of the traction coming in with the conservative and even with what some might call the far right of the republican party. >> tamron that is such a great point. regardless of the truth of the matter and who is telling the truth and who isn't. i think the evidence is pretty clear that the president was telling the truth and joe wilson is the one like, putting that aside there is a benefit for wilson, king and other republicans to keep this going, otherwise, they would have drop it had last week but it is an interesting thing to watch. >> yeah. tamron, still ahead, those thousands of demonstrators who took on washington to protest the president, but what are they really so angry about? >> their signs sure said a lot. account gop capitalize on people who are holding signs that say kill obamacare, should

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in today's making their case, david, tens of thousands of so-called t.e.a. party protesters showed up in washington over the weekend, a premise was a revolt against government spending. >> like many, the town hall meetings over the summer, tamron this event brought out the far right fringe who came to vent their hatred of the president. signs like this one reading "bury obamacare with kennedy." they were preprinted and common. the signs compared obama to a social youist, to osama bin laden, and depicting the president as a witch doctor. then there were the comments directed at the president like this one, loo like this woman from maryland. >> losing our country.

we think the muslims are moving in and taking over. we do not believe our president is a christian and he bet us believe that our president is a liar. god bless joe wilson. >> so, are these t.e.a. party protestors helping or hurting the republican party? here to make their case, tim fern holtz, writer fellow and blogger for the american prospect and tim cardny, writing editor and columnist for the washington editor. tim, first to you, somebody suggest wes should bury obamacare with ted kennedy, how can that possibly, possibly help the republican party? >> i think you got to it in your earlier segment on joe wilson, conservative activists do provide a lot of money for the party and mobilization n the broader country, the people want to respect the office of the president. you saw it last august during the presidential campaign that barack obama, then the candidate, his popularity improved as john mccain's was more and more associated with these fringe groups.

sarah palin rallies and throughout. so, i think just like with joe wilson's outburst during the president's health care speech last week, most people look at that and they say the republican party isn't really bringing anything substans to the table, more about yelling at opposition than trying to solve problems. i think ultimately it will hurt the republican. >> tim carney, also this reputation now that the right-wing fringe tends to make things up, a lot of claims over the weekend that there were 1.5 to 2 million people on the mall. when the park police officials and others say it had may have been 40 or 50,000. some of the t.e.a. party members sent out a photo that they said this claim -- they claimed this was the photo of the mall in washington and they said this depicted saturday's crowd. the problem is this photo was taken years ago at another convenient. how do we know this? because it does not include the national museum of the american indian, a building locate ted corner of 4th street and independence avenue and that opened september 14, 2004.

we know somebody was sending out, photo shopping photos and misleading about the figure. if they can't be honest about their crowd size, how can though be believed about anybody else? >> that is what i bay is msnbc and the mainstream media. if they can't be honest about what is going on else? you guys are focusing on a handful of nut jobs at this rally. >> it wasn't a handful. >> i was at the anti-war protest in 2001 and 2002. and there were anarchists with masks over their face, and at least 20, maybe 50 of those that i saw. i saw people holding up pro fidel castro signs. and my friend mark hemingway, he is a writer, read the stuff he wrote. there was lots of nut jobs there, but that's not the main story. the story is, people are angry. the same sort of passion that was directed supporting barack obama during the campaign has turned against him. >> such a great point. and you're absolutely right. people are angry. but how does it help them get their message out about anger

when they're lying about crowd sizes and sending out photo shopped pictures? >> if people are lying about crowd sizes, sending out photo shop pictures, they're hurting 9 cause, because people like "the huffington post" and msnbc will lie about the crowd size rather than to what's at stake. how much money is being spent, what will this debt mean for inflation for interest rates for my children's taxes they'll have to pay. cap and trade, that's a given way to all sorts of corporations like the parent company of msnbc and ge. the health care reform, that's supported by pfizer and phrma. i mean, we should be focusing on the issues these people are upset about, rather than the lies, i agree. >> tim, to that point, is there something that another conversation that should be had on the left, or in this center, excluding, as tim carney put it, the nut jobs, the people out there who are angry and who really want to be participants of the conversation? >> yeah, i think tim is right, that there is too much focus on the people who are on the fringe. and i think the really question is, why are republican leaders

who are supposed to be in the mainstream, and trying to solve these problems, associating themselves with these groups? you saw senator de minn at this rally saying these people, flying confederate flags are great americans. >> what did he say -- confederate flags were great americans? no. >> frankly, when you look at the negotiations and the senate on the hill, when the president has repeatedly gone to republican leaders and tried to reach out, and i think his speech last week was a great example of that, he spent most of his time citing republican senators who worked with ted kennedy. >> that is another issue we're going to talk about another time. in the meantime tim and tim, i thank you both very much. we appreciate it. and again, tamron, i think mark mcin enhad it right when he was talking about the vacuum and being filled by the freaks of the republican party. and those were mark mckinnen's words. >> i know we should pay attention to the larger conversation at hand, but when you do see some of the vial banners out there, you wonder

who those people are looking for as far as lawmakers, who they are trying to appeal to. it's concerning. you can't just discredit them from the conversation, because they are there. anyway, david, we're following breaking news right now. we have two stories for our audience "associated press" say police identified the body of the building in the campus of yale to be annie le. they are calling her death a homicide. earlier reports say there was a person they were interested in, they have not made an arrest, but there is a person of interest that reportedly failed a polygraph test and had defensive wounds on his body. again, these are preliminary reports. but right now the facts are that the body found in a yale building has been identified as the grad student. also, nbc news is confirming that the new york city police department has a terrorism investigation in queens. the agents have raided a residence in new york city as part of a terrorism

investigation, and are preparing to brief congress about this investigation. remember that they are preparing, david, to brief congress into this significant development after this raid. new york police department spokesperson confirms the searches were conducted in the burrow of queens as nbc news has confirmed, and involves a joint terrorism task force. we will keep you up to date on that breaking news. but that's what's coming into us right now, david. >> again, it is a significant development, the fact they would feel the need to talk to lawmakers about what they found or the investigation, that is intriguing. we will keep everybody posted and be right back after this. ( conversation ) garth, you're up. hold on, i'm at capitalone.com picking a photo... for my credit card. here's one from my prom. oh, what memories. how 'bout one from our golf outing? ( shouting ) i know, maybe one of my first-born son. dad, mom says the boys gotta go. personalize your card by uploading... your own photo at capitalone.com. what's in your wallet?

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almost 4:00 on the east coast, and coming up in our next hour, president obama is warning wall street against repeating the same moves that led to the recession. plus, david, police have identified the body found on the campus of yale to be that of a grad student who went missing. breaking details into the investigation. and the debate over

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