problem believing he was born here if it isn't race? if it isn't race, why? >> i think some of it is race, you know, let me examine this in the terms of joe wilson. when sarah palin talked about death panels no one said she was a racist. when a guy shows up to speeches of barack obama in new hampshire with a gun, no one says you're racist. and a white congressman from south carolina says you lie -- >> changing the subject yet, is there any way they can get off this? >> the president is going to be giving -- >> sunday. one of them is going to be -- do you have a question ready? can you share with us a press question? do you like this race issue? i guess that's a good question. is this good for america? >> i don't think the president thinks this is good for america at all. i think this is part of something larger than race. whether a lot of americans think the president is legitimate, whether they think government is out of controlled. i think a lot of that fused together now. >> barack obama said it was a convergence of three things.

worst recession since the great depression, legitimate difference on the size and scope of government and a 24/7 media culture. >> thank you david gregory, roger simon. "meet the press" sunday, the president will be on. join us again tomorrow night at 5:00 and 7:00 eastern for more "hardball." right now it's time for "the ed show" with ed schultz. good evening, americans. welcome to "the ed show." big story tonight. bipartisanship is dead. died about noon today eastern time. september 16th, 2009. the baucus plan is a flop. it isn't going to work. three republicans, all these meetings, 20 to be exact, not a sung l republican vote. senator jay rockefeller gout out of a meeting with the president of the united states. he will join me in a minute as will kent conrad, one of the gang of six. progressives have been pushed to the side of the road and forced to put up to the stall game,

delays for months on end. all the trash talking from grassley and enzi all in the name of let's get along bipartisanship. what do we have to show for it? nothing. not as of now we don't. so just keep in mind, as i've said all along, this is now a watered down bill stripped of a public option and who told us that? a whistle blower from the insurance industry calling it a gift to the insurance industry. here's max baucus today with his announcement. >> we debated this thing, met over 100 hours. i forget what the total is. there are no real policy deal breakers. it's more -- getting more comfortable with what all this is and i think that's what this comes down to is helping, working with it, making this -- helping centers in the country, the public be more comfortable with what all this is.

no republican has offered his or her support at this moment, but i think by the time we get to file passage in this committee you'll find republican support. >> the gop doesn't think you're a happening dude, max, at all. baucus keeps saying the american people need to get comfortable with reform. what people is he talking about? here are the numbers i've been looking at. so have you as of late. 75% of doctors support a public option according to a new study published in "the new england journal of medicine." 51% of business leaders support a public option according to a new research poll commissioned by driving business forward. 55% of americans support a public option across the board according to the latest "washington post"/abc news poll. let me give you a comfort zone here. the republicans know they'll spend the next generation in political wilderness if this reform gets passed and obama

gets it done. president obama thought the gang of six was going to be bigger than politics. the olive branches have been everywhere. he's been wrong on that. the righties have shown their hand down the stretch. i know the president, we've talked about this as a consensus guy, wants everybody to get along and get on board, but folk, you can't do that if you're dealing with people that want you to fail all the time. he has to make the choice. reward the republicans who aren't budging or cut bait like he promised? >> i will not waste time with those who have made the calculation that it's better politics to kill this plan than to improve it. now is the season for action. now is when we must bring the best ideas of both parties together and show the american people we can still do what we were sent here to do. now is the time to deliver on health care. >> well, he tried. mr. president, i think now is

the time you've got to be strong enough and make good on your promise. senator baucus has made the case all along we need to choose between being progressive or getting the bill passed. in my world, that is a false choice. i also think the finance chair has kind of a math problem right now. >> it can pass the senate. no republican has offered his or her support. if can pass the senate. no republican has offered his or her support. it can pass the senate. no republican has offered his or her support. >> we have 59 democrats. you need 60 votes. unless you go with reconciliation then you need only 51. the only republican telling the truth in all of this is demint from south carolina. he's bullying olympia snowe that joining with the democrats would be naive and foolish. the quote is, it would be terrible if one republican chose to basically sell out the whole republican conference, particularly in return for some naive idea we can get some

compromise. folks, they have shown their colors across the board. they don't want to do anything with the democrats in any of this. it's time to move forward. now, lefties, it's time for you to engage. i'm talking about e-mails, i'm talking about phone calls, i'm talking about jamming phone banks and letting your representatives and senators know what you want. four out of the five bills in the congress want a public option. joining me now is senator jay rockefeller who just got out of a meeting with the president of the united states. senator, great to have you with us tonight. >> thanks, ed. >> i know you're an advocate and have been for a public option for a long time and you've been on record saying you cannot support this bill out of the senate finance committee, which you are a member of. did you tell that to the president tonight? >> i did, i did. in fact, he already knew it and is probably one of the reasons he asked to talk with me. i had about a half hour with him. it was great. >> did he try to sell you on it or was he just asking questions? >> actually, there's a number of

things beyond the public option that i have problems with, and i explained those to him as i have to others. i will to you if you want me to. i'll do anything you want, ed. i really want to talk about the all t all terntives to public option. it doesn't exist. i think we ought to have an easter egg hunt. somebody trying to find an alternative doing the right thing which would be public option. >> it is the right thing, no question about it. several weeks ago the american people were being told the public option is dead, so you've become a big voice in this, senator, being on the senate finance committee saying that you can't support it. what is your biggest problem with the senate finance committee bill? >> obviously i want the public option, but more importantly i worry about the alternative to it because i don't think it exists. i have -- i want to protect my

people in west virginia. that's what i'm elected for. my seniors, subsidies for low-income people, the fact that are insufficient, the fact the children's health insurance bill, which john shavefy, originally senator from rhode island and i wrote together. back in the mid-'90s. that's 11 million children at stake now and that's been tossed in the finance committee bill into something called the exchange which is the farmer's market which means it loses all of its defined benefit qualities that children need. >> senator, what about -- >> a lot of problems. >> yeah. what about no republicans showing up? is this the moment that we're finding out that maybe the republicans aren't going to come along because if they're saying no right now to get them to say yes the democrats are going to have a make a lot of concessions and will only get watered down even further. is this the defining moment in your opinion? >> the defining moment will come, actually, it won't -- it will start out as being in the amendment process, which starts

next tuesday in the finance committee. i'll have a lot of amendments that will try to solve a lot of problems i have and so will a lot of other people. then that either gets out through the senate, finance, or it doesn't, then there's the health bill. there's the three other bills from the house which are all better than our bill is now, and so there's -- there are going to be various stages. amendments on the floor then conference, and i remain optimistic we're going to have a bill. >> to you feel like the republicans have negotiated in good faith, senator? >> no. look, i've been chairman of the intelligence committee where that was the rule of the day. they agreed to nothing we ever wanted to do, even though it involved national security matters. and it's the same thing in the finance committee. i mean, the republicans have never as long as i can remember ever been for health care reform

at any kind at any level. >> what about reconciliation? would you go along with that? >> i would if i had to. i prefer to do it the other way and so we have to try first things first and see how much we can accomplish. >> senator rockefeller, i appreciate your time tonight. thanks so much. >> thanks, ed. reaction from progressive democrats has been swift and severe today. nancy pelosi put out this statement. we hope to see modifications that make the health care more affordable for all americans and promote competition. that is the key to keeping costs lower. i believe the public option is the best way to achieve that goal. john sweeney, the head of the afl-cio, the union the president spoke to yesterday said, despite months of painful negotiations the senate finance committee proposal release today absolutely fails to meet the most basic health care needs of working families and fails to meet the expectations we have set for our nation. folks, i have to tell you, the

next gentleman we have coming up is senator kent conrad, chairman of the budget committee and also a member of the gang of six, who i have taken issue with from time to time and he is a dear friend of mine, but in fairness to all of that, is there anything in this bill that should really be taken seriously by those who don't want the public option? senator, good to have you with us tonight, and i know one of your biggest concerns is, over the years, has been the budget and paying for this. why is this a good bill, senator conrad? why is this coming out of the gang of six something we should lock on to? >> let me put it in no particular order, number one, it has very significant insurance market reforms so we do away with the exclusion based on pre-existing condition. we do away with lifetime caps. do away with annual caps. very significant delivery model reform which may be the most

significant thing of all in health care reform. to move to the systems that really work and provide big incentives to move in that direction, systems like the mayo clinic, the cleveland clinic and others that are low cost, high quality. third, it is paid for unlike any other plan. fourth, it bends the cost curve in the right way. nothing more important for families, for businesses, for the government, itself, than to get the cost explosion under control. in addition, it has a whole series of other things that are going to make a big difference in terms of improving coverage. 94% of the people would get coverage. not 100%, but a dramatic improvement from where we are. >> senator, what about these exchanges that would be operating on a state level? in the state of alabama, in the state of north dakota, your state, in the state of california, one provider does more than 90% of the customers

that are there. how is this going to provide competition if it's administered by the insurance industry? >> well, it's not administered by the insurance industry. the exchanges function much like the federal employee health benefits plan which all members of congress are part of. here's how it works. at the beginning of the year, you're given a series of choices. you can pick blue cross & blue shield, aetna, wellpoint, you can pick under my proposal a cooperative plan not run by the insurance industry at all, not for profit competitor, not run by the government either. people would be presented with a series of choices. >> senator, wouldn't we see insurance companies pey ies com against one another? they've been known not to compete in each other's backyard. how can you be honest to the american people that they with wail be honest brokers? >> i don't think you can count of them being honest brokers.

that's why i think it's critically important you do inject a not for profit competitor up against the for-profit insurance companies. >> well, there's four out of five bills that have the public option. is it still a possibility? you're outgunned. the polls are showing the people want a public, government-run option here. >> you know, anything is possible here because this is the beginning of a legislative process. you know, we're going to have chances to amend in the committee, on the floor, in the conference committee, so there are going to be lots of opportunities to see where the votes lie. >> senator, all these meetings, all these hours and no republicans. why? what -- they just don't want any reform at all or what? >> you know, i would say this about the republicans that participated in this group of six effort. i think they exhibited good faith. look, at the end of the day there are things here they're

uncomfortable with, and, you know, at the end of the day we sort of ran out of time in the sense that the chairman felt it was critically important to go the markup next week. i think before we're done we will have republican support and, you know, it's going to be critically important to have republican support if we're going to get 60 votes. >> yeah, but the american people are going to want to know what you're going to have to give up to get those 60 votes and we've given up an awful lot already. single payer and, so, we'll see. senator conrad, good to have you with us tonight. i appreciate your time. get your cell phones out. with what you moe right now about the baucus plan, could you support it? text "a" for yes "b" for no to 622639. coming up, jimmy carter says an overwhelming amount of animosity directed toward the president of the united states is because he's a black man. republicans say carter is playing the race card. steven a. smith weighs in on that. the nutty senator from alabama richard shelby said that

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♪ love stinks! welcome back to "the ed show." the gop is ramping up their campaign against the anti-poverty group a.c.o.r.n. the senate voted to strip them of housing funding and the census bureau already severed ties with hay korn. that's not enough. they don't want to group to get

federal funding. i know what's going on here. the fact is the conservatives don't want a.c.o.r.n. to be a part of anything. where was their outrage when halliburton was overcharging the government and electrocuting american soldiers? that's no excuse for a.c.o.r.n.'s behavior. i'm not here to defend them. they need to fix their problems fast. republicans are trying to broad brush this. it's not that simple. let me bring in the ceo of a.c.o.r.n., bertha lewis. let me ask you straight up, do you run an honest organization? the conservatives are saying everything about a.c.o.r.n. is dishonest. >> just because you repeat a lie over and over again doesn't make it true. of course we run an honest organization. we've been running this organization since 40 years, and we have been doing our core work of protecting people against foreclosures, absolutely making sure that people have affordable housing and affordable health

care. >> what do you say about the videotape that's floating around out there about the sting operation that showed obviously your employees were doing something they shouldn't be doing? >> first of all, for fox and right wing to have to stoop to a made up scenario is one thing, but as you know and as i've said over and over again, they did -- those people were representable. it was indefensible, and i don't care if it was a one-minute conversation. our organization, that does not meet our professional standards. guess what? those people were terminated immediately, but let me add, not one shred of paper application, tax form, anything was prepared because our quality control does kick in. >> senator -- >> if we need to improve, we will. >> senator shelby says there's corruption all throughout a.c.o.r.n. that's why i'm doing the story

tonight, because now a united states senator has gone on record saying your whole organization is corrupt. >> just because he's a united states senator doesn't make his mouth a prayer book. some of these people need to get their mouths washes out with soap. >> do you feel like you're targeted by the republicans? >> of course. listen, this goes way back all the way to the bush white house. a couple weeks ago we saw karl rove's e-mails specifically targeting us and him firing u.s. attorneys because they wouldn't come back and do a political conviction against us. we know. >> you're convinced that a.c.o.r.n. is worthy of taxpayer dollars to continue the work you're doing? >> i am the new ceo. i've worked at a.c.o.r.n. for over 20 years now, and i can tell you unequivocally, you know, we compete for those dollars. we deliver and we're effective and we are just the target of this right wing republican -- >> you're going to fight back, is that correct? >> absolutely. we will not stand for this

modern day mccarthyism and we will prevail. >> i appreciate your time tonight on "the ed show." thanks so much. >> thank you. coming up, my favorite righty talker. psycho michele bachmann is usually smiting venom. guess what brings her to the softer side? joe wilson. i had no idea. carol, when you replaced casual friday with nordic tuesday, was it really for fun, or to save money on heat? why? don't you think nordic tuesday is fun? oh no, it's fun... you know, if you are trying to cut costs, fedex can help. we've got express options, fast ground and freight service-- you can save money and keep the heat on. great idea. that is a great idea. well, if nordic tuesday wasn't so much fun. (announcer) we understand. you need to save money. fedex

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oh, american "psycho talker" tonight, congresswoman michele bachmann. she went on news max tv after president obama's speech last week and they asked her about obama extending an olive branch of tort reform. here's her response. >> he said that he would instruct kathleen sebelius, his health and human services secretary, to implement demonstration projects. we've already had demonstration projects that have proved wildly successful in the state of texas, for instance. they have imposed tort reform. it's done wonders for texas. >> it's all about texas, isn't it? that's initial, michele. you've forgotten the one state where costs are going up the fastest is texas. now, in michele's defense, she may have been distracted during that interview. it seemed like joe wilson's rude outburst during the president's speech really effected her. here she is a couple days ago at

a t.e.a. party in her home district. >> thank god for joe wilson. joe wilson is my friend. he's the last person i talk to before i left washington. he is the sweetest, most mild mannered, loving guy. you've never seen such a huge heart. >> michele, you're not hitting on joe are you? they why perfect for each other. although joe wilson has his work cut out for him if he wants to catch up with mirm michele's level of craziness. saying tort reform has done wonders in texas is "psycho talk." in my "playbook," two black teens beat a defenseless white schoolmate on a bus. someone, as twisted as a drugster can find a way to blame it on the president of the united states. jimmy carter says a lot of

criticism aimed at president obama is racially charged. steven a. smith's in the house tonight. his take on that a. you look beautiful tonight. allow me. it's tough to reach that five servings a day if you don't always like the taste of vegetables. i'll be right back. ok. good thing v8 v-fusion juice gives you a serving of vegetables hidden by a serving of fruit. v8. what's your number? get a $1.00 coupon for v8 v-fusion juice at tryv8.com.

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i think an overwhelming portion of the intensely demonstrated animosity toward president barack obama is based on the fact that he is a black man. that he's african-american. >> wow. bold statement from former president jimmy carter in his interview with nbc "nightly news" anchor brian williams sparking strong emotions on both sides. democrats pushing back extremely hard on it. a lot of people are looking at right wing protests ginned up by righty talksers across the country who openly called the president a racist and saying if it walks like a duck it's a duck. here's more on what president carter said. >> i've lived in the south and

seen the south come a long way and the rest of the country that shared the south's attitude toward minority groups, at that time particularly african-americans, that racism intonation still exists and i think it's bubbled up to the surface because of belief among many white people, not just in the south but around the country, that african-americans are not qualified to lead this great country. it's an abomb bl circumstance and grievous any greatly. >> steven a. smith tonight. the level of conversation certainly comes up when a former president says this. is jimmy carter correct? what do you think? >> i think so some degree he is when you're talking about a small portion of the populous out there obviously have harsh feelings for our president of the united states, barack obama.

i think there's a small segment out there that feel that way. i don't think that's the majority. i think when you barack obama and received over 69 million votes, 52% of the popular vote, i don't think you can label a strong majority of americans to feel that way about him. clearly there's a small minority who feel that way and they are making sure their voice is heard. >> what do you make of michael steele saying the democrats are playing the race card? >> there's validity to his statement. there are some people within the democratic party who don't mind politicizes things. never let -- >> is jimmy carter politicizing something? >> i don't believe he would be one of them. he has reasons for feeling that way. some people would disace gree with him. he's a man who is nearly twice my age, born own raised in the south. when we speaks about that i'm going to listen to him. >> how do you think the president should handle this conversation going on now now that it's a political football?

he has addressed the race issue in the past, given speeches. should the president comment on this? >> i think he should comment on it because he's at the heart of the matter. the fact is he addressed race when it came to reverend wright while he was campaigning. this is not man who is not afrao speak on sensitive issues. he campaigned on mobilizing america and being a unifier. you can't run away from a situation like this especially when you're at the center of attention because it pertains to you. >> how do you think young, black americans are going to receive this kind of conversation? we've got a former sitting president, jimmy carter, saying this. a former president, jimmy carter, saying this. it's all over the media. the white house, it's a hot potato for them. they don't want to deal with it. they want to move forward, look to the future. they don't think it's going to advance anything. what about young folks in this country that hear this

conversation still going on? i ask that because i'm a product of forced busing for racial equality in the early '70s in norfolk, virginia. they bus kids for the color of their skin. here we are how many years later still having this conversation? >> i tell you this, ed, this answer may shock you. think it's going to be shrugged right aft right off their shoulders. they're not going to be faized by it. there's a vast majority of americans that anticipate racism, wherever they go andcha standsing 234 front of them. a lot of god-fearing white americans out there have stood up in an absolute uproar because they're appall ld by the things they're seeing. it's nice to see people like yourself, keith olbermann and others being sensitive to issues like this. that's what african-americans have been waiting for for quite

some time. though there's always been people in white america that has been supportive of the black race. >> i want to ask you about the bus incidents, steven a. the bus incident where a white kid was beats up by a couple of black kids. disciplinary action has taken place within the school system. rush limbaugh was saying this is obama's america. black kids beating up white kids on a bus. >> that's ridiculous. that's utterly ridiculous for him to say that. it really has nothing to do with barack obama. this nonsense was happening long before brm brarack obama came a. there's racism in america but also a situation where you have a lot of black kids on far too many occasions that feel the need to be violent and putting their hands on the people of different ethnicity. there's no excuse for that. those black kids should be punished. they had no business putting their hands on that white individual. you do the crime, you do the time. >> steven a. smith, great to have you on tonight.

our paj, jeff santos, radio talk show host, wwco, revolutionboston.com. a.b. stoddard, associate editor for the hill and john fury, republican strategist. john, let me start with you. actually, i want to play this sound cut from bill cosby who just did an interview. he was talking about the behavior of the congress toward president obama. this is bill cosby. i want you to respond to this. >> i've seen politicians disagree with each other and call each other by the name of mister, wait their turn, and then speak. i've seen people who couldn't stand each other have manners and this does not exist. people seem to know that they were going to be on camera, they seem to be acting, you know what

i mean? texting, pretending that they were falling asleep and having pieces of paper they were waving. i am not seeing this. >> john, want to get your comment on that. >> i've been on the house floor when president bush gave the speech and i do think that at the end of the day there was plenty of times where there was bad activity on both sides. i think that what congressman joe wilson did was unacceptable. he apologized immediately to the president. i think it was the right thing for him to do. i think we move on. putting my strategic hat on, the president and his team want this subject over with because they want to talk about health care. i don't think they want a continual conversation about all this stuff. i think it really gets them off their game. i think from the president's standpoint, the best thing for him is move on to talk about health care. >> a.b. stoddard, what about that? jimmy carter must have not got the memo to move on to other

subjects. >> this is true. obviously jimmy carter is just not some democrats and his. comments will not be ignored. they'll carry tremendous weight. particularly among obama supporters who believe race is connected to the anti-obama sentiment and the kinds of signs we're seeing at rallies, et cetera. for this white house, this is quick sand. they're going to stay away from this as well they should. the people they are focused on right now are the people who voted for barack obama who are losing right now on this health care debate or any other issue that's come up this year that involves government spending and government intervention. they are watching the polls. not for the people who turn out to these rallies with posters of obama as hitler, anything like that. people who voted for barack obama and are turning away. that middle of america. those independent voters. they're the people they need to get back there, focus on them. they don't want any conversation about race. >> jeff santos, is there an up side? if the obama white house is aggressive and answering these people who are throwing these

kinds of slurs out there and these kinds of comments? >> thank you, ed, for having me. it's simple. they have to be strong. if you noticed yesterday barack obama was in pittsburgh, pennsylvania, addressing his crew, the people who basically helped elect him, the afl-cio. he said very quickly that i feel home in the house of labor more than i do in white house of the united states. the reason is that he feels that he can talk to those people and he has to be strong and he has to talk what he got elected for. the fact is is that there are a majority of american people are able to deal with the fact that the man is an african-american. they are able to deal with the fact this is a guy who wants a health care plan with a public option and able to deal with the fact they want somebody to lead. he has to lead. he has to lead. >> john feehry, is this really a shot at the republican party from the former