cause celeb of theirs is the census, basically breaking with a.c.o.r.n. they have extracted something here. the census is always a huge -- you wouldn't think it would be but it's a huge political deal in how people are counted because it relates to representation for the next decade. they scored a little bit here. jonathan is exactly right. this is something very much animates the two basis of the party. for the vast middle of the country worried about health care and the country. some people don't know what a.c.o.r.n. stands for. it's not something that falls from the tree. >> they're picking off the stragglers, picking off the people in the administration who have problems, as we've seen recently. they went after that guy on the -- the energy guy at the white house. they're going after -- >> van jones. >> picking up the stragglers in the unit, right? jonathan? >> no, sure, absolutely. look, you see element right now on the right that are trying to score political points by

targeting some issues that haven't gotten a lot of exposure. something they've had some luck of late. >> thank you very much, chris, jonathan. join us tomorrow night at 5:00 and 7:00 eastern. . "countdown with keith olbermann" starts right now. which of these stories will you be talking about tomorrow? health care reform lives. the president at the university of maryland. >> now, i've also said one of the options in the insurance exchange should be a public insurance option. >> but he mentions the baucus plan, the sage version of saving private insurance. how to steer out of the skid. the first lady to pack her autumn with reform pitches to soccer moms.

and there is the memory to invoke. our special guest tonight, after the publication of his father's memoir, ted kennedy jr. limbaugh and the continuing korcertificating on the public discourse. howard dean on racists, denying to each other they are racists and on the fears of nancy pelosi who witnessed political anger turn into political assassination in the time of harvey milk. >> i saw for myself. in the late '70s in san francisco this kind of rhetoric or -- this was very frightening. >> now czarrers. lou dobbs drinks the kool-aid. >> 34 czars appointed by president obama during his first eight months in office was during the clinton administration and he only had

ten czars. a remarkable change of emphasis. unczardom. "the washington post" reports the bush had 46 czars in 46 czar jobs. new developments in watergate? what john dean found in documents in a book published over 17 years ago is nothing less than the answer to the question, what exactly were the burglars looking for inside democratic headquarters? what exactly did richard nixon want? john dean reveals it exclusively tonight on "countdown." >> i'm not a crook. good evening from new york. the south carolina supreme court this week ordering a health insurance company to pay $10 million in punitive damages for reprehensible sdigs reprehensible decision to rescind the health insurance

policy. a teenage college student tested positive for hiv a year after he had taken out the policy. if this there had been any doubt that significant health care reform were needed those doubts have been shouted down and not just by the justices of that south carolina highest court. president obama taking his campaign for health care reform to the university of maryland where he told thousands of cheering college students that congress must resist scare tactics and false accusations. their loudest cheers coming from the president spoke about the public option. >> now, i've also said that one of the options in the insurance exchange should be a public insurance option. let me be clear. let me be clear. it would only be an option. no one would be forced to choose it.

no one with insurance would be affected by it. what it could woo do is provide more choice and more competition and put pressure on private insurers to make their policies affordable and treat their customers better. >> the crowd also booed most loudly about those determined to keep things exactly as they are, broken. >> there are still those in washington who are resistant to change. who are more willing to defend the status quo than address the real concerns of the american people. what can i tell you? they're still out there. >> more booing if not as boisterous when the president brought up senator max baucus and his health care reform bill that does not reform any health care. >> the good news is, we are now closer to reform than we've ever been. after debating this issue for the better part of a year, there's now agreement in congress on about 80% of what needs to be done.

four out of five committees in congress have completed their work. yesterday the finance committee on the leadership of max baucus put out it's own bill. each bill has its strengths and there are a lot of similarities between them. >> governor dean calling the baucus bill, quote, the worst piece of legislation in 20 years. it's a $60 million give away to the health insurance every year. it's an outrage. i wouldn't vote for it at all under any circumstances. democrats saying nice thing about the baucus bill. senators mccaskill and ben nelson joining low lieberman oe li olympia snowe on it. while we each have senator snowe saying she's flexible on the public option.

more flexibility on strategy. michelle obama will begin a packed packed autumn of events that aides say will be a soft focus on health care and reform. after that dose of political speech i'm joined by our lawrence o'donnell, contributor to the huffington post, former chief of staff. the baucus bill pushing this idea of state exchanges as co-ops. this brought -- this remark from the congressional budget office. the co-ops this little effect on total enrollment in the exchanges or federal cost. so if they're not going to lower cost or drive enrollment up, why co-ops? >> well, they're designed to have very little effect. so it turns out they work fairly well. >> well, yes. >> it's also, unfortunately, for the chairman, it has driven one democratic member of the committee to already announce he's going to vote against it on, on the basis of there not be a public option, jay rockefeller is already gone. this is a pretty soft way in

terms of legislating to start a mark up, going in there, knowing you've lost one of your own democrats already is pretty tough. >> with that vote counted against it, is it possible this bill never get out of that committee. >> bills always make it out of the finance committee. this is the only time you'll be allowed to harbor a little doubt. jay's gone. so that allows chairman baucus to lose no more. he cannot lose another vote. and jay rockefeller's serious. he voted against the chairman's bill moving from the committee in 1994. we got it -- i was working for him at the time. we picked up three republicans along the way, because the process that you're going to see is republicans making inroads into this bill, as they did in 1994, through the amendment process in committee. that's what baucus means, maybe it's not over yet on get owing limp yeah snowe. >> is it better for the cause of actual health care reform for the bill to die in committee or for it to be taken to the floor? >> the betts thing is to get something out. if it dies, panic will go through the senate and panic through the house because it will show this committee

couldn't do it. you need -- in order to get forward from here you need to get something, anything, out of that committee. the closest jay rockefeller can get the way he want -- his first amendment will be, put the public option in. it will lose. no question based on where the votes are right now. so the dilemma for him is, do i vote to move this procedure forward? last time around he didn't. that's the only vote baucus can afford to lose. >> michelle obama to stump for health care reform. it's most to be more about health care and not reform and all the rest of this political speak. we know the last time a first lady got involved in health care reform. is this a good idea even in its remote form? >> you have to do the delicate version. you can't have michelle obama out there answering whether she's in favor of charlie rangel three new top tax brackets or in favor of baucus's 35% tax on health care plan that's worth

more than $8,000 which the unions opposed because an $8,000 plan is not a lot of plan. there are too many particulars out there in the bills thaw don't want her to have to address. now, hillary clinton did address those because she was an expert in the legislation. she had written her version of it. michelle obama doing the brush your teeth version of this is the only way to go. and risky. there's -- her numbers will go down from doing even that. she'll go from a 70% approval down to a 60% but she has some approval to spend here. >> talk of spending your approval possibly in the wrong place, what is this from senator grassley saying he resents the white house from calling him out and his word was, associating him with extreme claims about the end of life situation. even exposed to as much politics as i've been exposed to, this makes no sense. >> you haven't been exposed to

chuck. he's been in 30 years in the congress and complete obscurity. nobody knew who he was a year ago. for pretty good reason. he knows how to do iowa politics. he has no idea how to be in the eye of a national political storm. so the truth of this is, knowing chuck grassley, he really doesn't know why the president is mad at him pep really -- what was it that i said that was so bad? he would pass a lie detector test saying, i don't know why the president's mad at me about saying that about death panels. he really would. >> his tv series right now would be lost. >> well, not used to the high stakes, high pressure, every single word counts politics. he's never been in that before. >> we'll get him a primer on the 21st century. >> always a pleasure. thanks for coming in. one of the most emotional moment of president's special address to congress is when he invoked the memory of senator kennedy and saying he had given

a letter three months before his address. in it he expressed confidence health care reform would finally pass and he referred to health care reform as that great unfinished business of our society. joined now by the late senator's oldest son, ted kennedy jr. thank you for taking your time. my great condolences. >> thank you, keith. and my father was a huge fan of this program. and it's great of you to have me on tonight. >> i remain speechless at the thought. in the words of your father, the work goes on, on capitol hill, and health care reform. right now, though, it's getting hard to see where that work ends. how do you think your father would view the current state of the health care debate? >> well, you know, at times like this, i really do miss my father because, as you know, health care was one of the causes of his life. you know, he was the master. of bipartisan compromise. he was the guy who could --

really could manage a national health care crisis like the one that we're in. and, you know, i just think -- you know, i've been to spending the last week talking about my father's new book, which is in stores right now called "true come pass" and in it he talks about not just his love of health care but in all the major legislative battles he went through in his 47 years of public service. and it's remarkable some of the anecdotes and lessons he learned as a result of all of these experiences. >> i want to go to one of those in a moment. i have one orbit of news from today that i love your reaction to. the state of massachusetts got a step closer to getting another vote in health care debate. the state house fulfilled your father's wish. they approved a bill for an interim senatorial appointment. what's your reaction to that? >> my dad did write that letter to the president of the senate,

the legislature and governor patrick, wanting to have an interim person there, just in case. he knew the stakes were so high in this health care redate. i thi i think that's why he felt it was so important for someone to fill that seat on an interim basis just because of the situation we find ourselves in right now. >> to the book. one think in it that is extraordinarily important at the moment. it's about health care and about empathy. i would like to read this passage that he wrote about the time he spent with you in the hospital when you were fighting cancer. and i hope i can get through it. while teddy was asleep or in treatment i wandered the halls and waiting rooms and sought other

>> is that ultimately what's missing from the debate right now, the empathy? this abstract talk about process and about fights and very little mention of people and reality of suffering? >> yes. well, keith, you know, my dad was incredibly compassionate person and had empathy for, as you just mentioned, working

people, school teachers, new bedford fishermen, the union carpenters. he didn't really see policy in the abstract. he really wondered how those policies would impact real people. and that's really why you've seen, i think, such an outpouring of affection for my dad in both -- not just from his democratic colleagues but, indeed, from his sometime political adversaries are on the other side because i think the way he saw through some of these different legislative issues. but i think my experience with bone cancer at age 12, his own experience of having a -- nearly lost his life in the plane crash, his own sister rosemary's experiences with intellectual disabilities impacted him in a great way. one of the things we really learn in the book is, you know, what an emotional man that my father really was. of course, he had to keep all of his emotions pretty intact because all of us in our family

were depending on him. he had to stay strong. but he reveals his strong emotional and very spiritual part of his life. many of these stories were stories that, quite honestly, i had never even heard before. i really felt like he was speaking to me from the pages. i'm grateful that he has produced this memoir, which i consider a real gift to me. >> if you can stay through the commercial break i'd like to talk more about the book, if that's all right. >> thank you, keith. >> more with ted kennedy jr. 37 years after it happened john dean has just found out what exactly it was the watergate burglars were looking for. ste our money... we put our economy in the hands of hostile nations. we let big oil make record profits... while we struggle. and we lose new energy jobs, that go overseas. but we can take charge of our economy... by passing strong clean energy legislation. 1.7 million new american jobs.

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1963, ted kennedy walked into a debate in 1963 of wilson robertson speak favorably of a certain bill. impressed with his passion when the time for the roll call came, the junior senator voted yay.

robertson voted no. he couldn't believe his ears. he told him n my state the people are evenly dwooi divided on this bill. to those who ain favor i send my speech. those who are against it, i voted no. he thought i might be able to make it after all. he would be remembered in the words of the president obama as the greatest legislator of our time. that anecdote part of "true compass" printed this week and his son kind enough to have stayed with us. it is a truly entertaining book. there were things in it that surprised you. could you give me an example? >> i had never heard the story of how my grandmother had written to the premier during the cuban missile crisis asking him to sign books to the kennedy

family. that was a funny an he can dote. meanwhile, in the middle of that the kgb are trying to decipher, what does this all mean? he also never told me, keith, about, you know, how difficult it was to tell his own father that my uncle jack had been killed and what a deeply emotional experience that that was. for him. and he never really spoke -- i knew my dad was a faithful man and he took his catholic faith very seriously, but we just didn't talk about our faith. i don't think catholics really, you know, spend a lot of time really reading the bible and talking about their faith. my dad really put his faith into practice, which was, you know, working on the -- for refugees, you know, focusing on health care for all and minimum wage and things he thought -- feeding the poor and the hungry and providing housing and proper pay for people. so that was his -- he felt that

that was more or less his moral obligation to try to forward those goals that he was brought up to believe in his family. >> this has very little to do with the book in a sense but i'm wondering, because i just experienced this today. talking about health care and fathers and finding things out. my dad's in the hospital. my dad's name is ted. and i saw him 4 1/2 hours ago. i'm fining out things about him and his life that i had no earthly clue. did you -- because he's just opening up on things. did your father do that in the last year to you? >> well, you know, keith, as my dad got older, he got more emotional. he was able to get more in touch with his feelings. and in the last year really able to share in i much more intimate way a lot of the feelings that he had. not just towards people and his family, but to his friends and the gratitude. you know, my father just was incredibly grateful. you know, i mean, i grieve today

in what might have happened had my father been in the senate today and be able to participate in this health care debate. but i'm really grateful for his incredible staff, the life that he had. and he thought that he had the greatest life in the world. and his was a life about perseverance. he did not believe in the hail mary pass, so to speak. he believed in showing up, getting up early in the morning, showing up to work, working each and every day and he never, ever gave up. and that is really the essence of my father's life. >> yeah. three yards and a cloud of dust will get you a lot of yards if you try it often enough. >> that's just it. you mentioned getting -- reaching across the aisle and bipartisanship. did the dedication to lincoln's first inaugural address, the last line of it, how he felt from the first time in senate, and to quote, i decided to but

faith in the better angels. >> this had to survive the nixon administration tapping his funds, bush with no child left behind after he was key in getting that passed. how did he wait those better angels under those temptations to look the other way? >> you're right. for many years during the reagan years and bush years, he really kept the flame, i think, of this health care issue alive for all of that time. and so many other issues. you know, he really did see the good in people. and, you know, he came from a different era, keith. you know, i can remember growing up, you know, where senator simpson and whitger and even donald rumsfeld were dinner guests at our house.

this was a different age. they had dinner, played tennis and then went on the senate floor and debated each other. it wasn't a personal vindicti vindictiveness that i think exists in washington today. so i think there is a lot to learn from, you know, the way the senate and politics used to be, you know, back when my dad first got involved in public service. >> i have to close this with what you said at your father's funeral. you are now a massachusetts resident. are you sure you don't to want run your your father's seat? >> yeah, i'm flattedered by a lot of people who suggest i run. i don't want to be a carbon copy of my father. i don't want to run as his surroga surrogate. people know that i love politics. i'm interested in politics one day. you know, i have a young family. i have an important -- a business that i'm running, the

marwood group out of new york i'm committed to run. but i want to go -- if and when i do go into public service, i want to come at it with my own ideas and my own expertise and my vision for what i'd like to do and contribute. and i'm -- i've been very active in the civil rights movement for people with disabilities. it's a cause i really believe in. and, you know, but it's a tough decision because, as you know, it's -- politics can be a brutal business. and it's extremely taxing on a person's personal life and their family. so it's something that i'm wear of, but, you know, it's something that i'm obviously hesitant about because i know all it demands. >> we'll anticipate your decision greatly in the event you ever make it in that direction. ted kennedy jr., your father's book is called "true compass" and my most and sincere condolences and thank you for your time. >> thank you, keith. a foggy part of history will clear up before your eyes

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best in a moment, rush limbaugh takes a fight on a school bus and maybe it defines america.

when does the hate in hate radio stop? howard dean next. john dean has tripped over the answer to one of watergate's most vexing mysteries. what were the burglars looking for? these stories, "dateline," washington, republican congressman kevin brady and his pals among the 912 folks has written a letter complaining his friends found travel on the metro difficult. that insufficient facilities for the physically challenged riders required them to fill the cab. there is also an irony about congressman brady complain being a poorly funded mass transit system since he voted against the stimulus bill and million force mass transit and a greater irony in the fact that a bill supplying $150 million in emergency maintenance for the washington subway came before the house and congressman brady voted against it. date line washington, best two false, cal thomas writing about

obama and racism and colin powell. she has more street ced than others who claim to have it but she got no point from liberal democrats when she ascended the ladder of power and influence. it was the same with colin powell were those who opposed mr. powell racist? nobody said any opposition to any policy is racism. more importantly, no liberal put up a poster depicting powell as a witch doctor. come o cal, you're smarter than this. don't be used by racists. date line -- edmonds, washington, number one best reality check. henry, when he saw the bags with a poster of obama with a hitler mustache his words were, personal and emotional and he tried to grab the fliers they were handing out. shoving ensued. people arrested mr. gasparian. he was born in armenia in 1939.

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whether he is a leader or just another sheep caught up in the frenzy the rhetoric of hate radio rush limbaugh has evolved from tin eyed nay to fury. house speaker nancy pelosi says we as a nation need to be can far more careful. limbaugh has turned a run of the mill fight over who got to sit where on a school bus in

illinois into a racially motive beating. >> obama's america, white kids getting beat up on school buses now. you put your kids on a school bus, you expect -- you expect safety, but in obama's america, the white kids now get beat up with the black kids cheering, yeah, right on, right on, right on, and sh's saying, the white kid deserved it, he's born a racist, he's would it. just turn them to their own bus with bars on the windows, he's racist. >> he used hyperboly. it's just another way for limbaugh to be racist. the police captain said there was, after all, no evidence the fight was roeshlly motivated. limbaugh's just having none of the facts. >> i think it was jumpable racism, that's the lesson we're being taught here today. we need segregated buses. it was invading space.

this is -- this is obama's america. >> why is limbaugh's self-professed ditto head as take anything other than limbaugh says as literal? today's speaker pelosi was asked about the increasing hostile political climate. >> i have concerns about some of the language that is -- that is being used because i saw -- i saw this myself in the late '70s in san francisco. this kind of -- of rhetoric. this was very frightening. i wish it would curb our enthusiasm in some of the statement that are made, understanding that some of the people -- the ears that are -- that it is falling on are not as balanced as the person making the statement might assume. >> the speaker's references to the '70s and what she said was a, quote, climate of violence, then, alluding to the san

francisco mayor and gay rights activist harry milk. let's turn to consultant to mckenna, long and aldrich, former governor howard dean. thanks for your time. >> thanks. >> speaker pelosi also said we have to take responsibility for our word and any incitement that may cause. do you share her concern? >> i do. i think that -- you know, there's a lot of money to be made in passing out hate, the kind rush limbaugh is just doing. he's always an entertainer but he's way over the line. this is going back to father co copeland, they aappeal to the worst of us, the side that is about fear and anger and hatred. they empower it and it is an evil thing to do and very bad for the country. for a long time these people have put themselves and wallets way ahead of america.

they pretend to be patririots b they're not patriotic at all. >> the speaker said certain statements are -- are not falling on the ears of necessarily balanced people. that seems to me to be sort of the overlooked essential part of this equation, isn't it? if they're going to talk like they want insurrection, they're going to take it seriously. >> i don't think we're going to get to that point. i've been through this before. we were the first state in the country to do civil unions, which is basically partnerships for ga americans. it was a way to give them rights. vermont is thought of as a pretty progressive place. we had they this very kind of stuff, people very angry, very upset. it wasn't just all about gay rights, it was about change. and there's als a certain population that's very fearful of change, very confused by change, worried about what it's going to mean for them. and i saw this in people i knew well and liked. there's an underside to human nature that that's -- and that's

what limbaugh and glenn beck and all these people are taking advantage of. they're appealing to the bad part in all of us. we all have it. no matter how people degrees we may have or how -- what fancy our neighborhood is, everybody has this. the problem is, do you want to incite it and what does that mean for the country, if you want to build a small -- to build a great country? >> is this conversation sort of an extension, the one about intense animosity, its relationship to the tendency to violence, is this a natural follow upto what president carter said about the demonstrated animosity toward president obama? >> race has much more to do it but this has gone on long before president obama was president. this is about peeling to the very worst instincts in human bein beings. i think it's despicable. i thought rate radio on the right was despicable. they pad their wallets and take advantage of other people. it's not -- these are not admirable people, these people.

they're mean people. they make jokes about people that don't deserve it. one of the reasons i never go on bill o'reilly's show -- the only reason is because i saw him take apart a 23-year-old that lost his father in the world trade center and tell him he was unpatriotic because he doesn't support the war. those people i don't hang around because they're not good for the country and they're not good human beings. >> well said. former governor howard dean, as always, our pleasure. great thanks. >> thank you. what richard nixon did that unleashed a chain reaction that resulted in watergate political crisis and his own resignation. john dean discovered remarkable evidence he'll share with us. lonesome road shows he's not a republican by calling to throw two bums out except those two bums were already leaving. "worst person" next. when rachel joins us, the disconnect in health form. why do legislators blocking reform the loudest come from states with the worst health care? when my wife started forgetting things...

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after deep throat was identified the number of remaining unsolved watergate mysteries dropped to about four. we can make it two. john dean answers the two most vexing questions left. if nixon didn't order them to, why did they break into democratic headquarters? what were they looking for? he reveals his answers exclusively here. there are birthers, deathers and cnn lou dobbs shows us there are czars. >> this re/max agents have the experience to get the job done. nobody sells more real estate than re/max. where do you want to be? so, at national, i go right past the counter... and you get to choose any car in the aisle. choose any car? you cannot be serious! okay. seriously, you choose. go national. go like a pro. woman: (thinking) so, i stick this bounce bar inside my dryer and for about four months,

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john dean was nothing less than the rosetta stone for watergate. what the burglars were looking for when they broke into democratic headquarters. he'll reveal this next. first number two, minority leader john boehner, political reports during effort to modify the whackier jobs sources say they have been weary of the possible damage inflicted on the party's by michele bachmann are men who call for an investigation into whether members of investigation are pro-american or anti-american. don't you try to moderate michele bachmann. leave her alone! our runner up from the university of idaho, lonesome with beck's top lie on fixed news. to prove he's not a republican shell, bipartisan, he called on people to weed things out on

these two senators who he said funded airport, mr. bond and voinovich. he said, show them the door. both retiring next year. he either did not know this or did not mention it. if you're out there praying for glenn beck's safety, pray he be protected from his greatest enemy in the world, glenn beck. our winner, lou dobbs of cnn. we have deathers, birthers and now czarrers. lou's a czarrer now. now being investigated by the new york post to see if he hired illegal aliens to work at his farm in new jersey. of course not. he just pays part of their salary on the horse show circuit his daughters compete in. i digress. we should point out the number in the bush administration, the number of czars, in point of fact, the highest number of czars we were able to document in our own reporting here on this broadcast for the number of

czars previous to the 35, 35 czars appointed by president obama in his first eight months in office was during the clinton administration, and he had only ten czars. the remarkable change of emphasis on czardom, if you will. help. how open and transparent of the dnc. your reporting on that broadcast is for the birds. "the washington post" reported during his two terms president bush had 36 czar positions and 46 czars filling those positions. busch, 46, obama 34, 35. lou, nothing. lou dobbs, today's worst person in the where are my teeth? olay professional pro-x wrinkle protocol is as effective as the leading wrinkle prescription brand at reducing the look of wrinkles. that's because olay has teamed with a highly specialized group of dermatologists and created a wrinkle protocol

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there are questions yet to be answered by watergate. our number one story tonight, the first two great still unresolved question about watergate are now resolved. when the burglars broke into the democratic national committee headquarters in 1972, rifled through the place, photographed it, planted listening devices, what exactly were they looking for? did president nixon order or just inspire it? john dean joins me with his exclusive answers in a moment. he found this during research for his new release memoir "blind ambition", the updated version, he find out how nixon translated to a break-in from a target. nixon, who played hard ball politics set in motion the activities that culminated with with arrests of people working for his re-election committee at the dnc.

it was the quest to get the very information that nixon was that resulted in bungled bugging and burglaries at the dnc. we'll get to nixon's direct or indirect role in a second. cut to the chase. what were the burglars supposed to get? >> very clear. and this is base not based on speculation. it's based on documents, tapes, before the break-in and after, nixon is looking for financial information to embarrass the democrats. what he's learned, he's gotten a tip that there's a kickback scheme des moines miami with the democratic convention. he believes this. he wants them to get dirt on the democrats. he pushes this. before -- there's only one place he can get this information, keith, it's in the dnc. and so while he doesn't -- i have no evidence that he gave a direct order to go in there. he, in essence, put in play the only place you can find the information he was looking for was in the dnc. >> and he this assumption that

political corruption equalled money. and, therefore, this was worth some investigation? >> no. it's a little more specific than that, because what happened is, he comes back from china. the itt charge that he had settled an antitrust case with the itt corporation in exchange for a large campaign corporation, he's being battered with that after he get back from canada -- or china. he's convinced the democrats are using this to try to hurt him and tarnish the centerpiece of his campaign. and so he writes memos on this and says, this is a problem. they've obviously planned this. as it happened, that wasn't true. there wasn't -- hadn't been a corrupt settlement, so he's looking for something that he can use to counter this negative publicity he's getting, that is tarnishing his centerpiece of his campaign, the china trip. >> was there a kickback scam going on? >> no evidence of it. i can't believe the man who was in charge -- a man named richard

mclaren is not the type who would have settled an antitrust case for anybody. if it weren't justified. >> i gather your conclusion is it was kind of thomas of beckette thing, who will rid me of these medalsome democrats or document. what did he think would happen when he put out word he wanted this information and the only place you could get it, down here in this famous phrase, down here in larry o'brien's desk? >> you nailed it. he knew a little fishing they might find negative information. after the break-in occurs, while amnesia sets in at the white house as to who was doing what, when and why, occasionally nixon and halderman slip on the tapes and acknowledge the only thing that was worth in there is the financial information they were looking for. so they recall it, they know it, but they forget they're being recorded and they catch themselves and don't pursue

these at great length. i think as more tapes come out and historians start looking for this when they match up this information i gathered, they're going to find even more of this. >> how did you gather it? where did it come from? >> what happened is -- what prompted it is i was falsely accused of ordering a watergate break-in on a tip from pie wife. >> i'm not laughing at you, i promise. >> and this provoked a lawsuit. the lawsuit went on for nine years. i learned more about watergate than i knew when i lived through it. and i also had a subpoena that helped surface a lot of information. and i thought, well, it's time to share this information. not only what the revisionists are doing if trying to write bogus accounts of watergate and what nixon knew and answer some unanswered questions. >> ultimately nixon is not guilty of foreknowledge of the break-in or sort of guilty? what is your conclusion in retrospect, knowing this? >> i would say not guilty of ordering the break-in. very clearly demanding information.