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"msnbc sunday." it's just after 11:00 on the east coast, 8:00 a.m. out west, and here's what's happening right now. fbi agents in denver are expected to question again today a colorado man who is at the center of a high-profile terrorism investigation. officials say najibullah zazi denies planning attacks in the u.s., but that he has admitted to attending a terror training camp in pakistan and that he had contacts there with associates of al qaeda. jonathan dienst is an investigative reporter with wnbc's station here in new york and jonathan joins me once again on the phone. jonathan, with a good morning to you, have the expected questioning discussions in denver gotten under way yet this morning? >> reporter: unclear, but we expect if it hasn't started, it should be starting shortly. we know that this will be the fourth day of questioning. yesterday we learned that he changed his tune, that he admits to knowing associates of al qaeda. that according to several sources familiar with the debriefings yesterday, and that he admitted to going to some

sort of terror training camp in pakistan and learning how to build explosives. now, obviously, that's concerning to law enforcement and security officials who have been tracking this man for some time now and those he's been in contact with, because you couple that with questions about backpacks found in the searches of certain queens homes, the fact that he had a bomb-making formula on his computer. that according to sources we have spoken with. and the fact that there have been possible visits to home depots and a u-haul truck rental agency. all of this raising great concern. now, no one's been charged, and defense lawyers leading up to this have denied that there has been any wrongdoing. now they are not commenting on what is being said in these discussions, in these possible plea deals or a cooperation deal that may be discussed at this time in denver. but certainly, law enforcement is very concerned that there may be, there may be some sort of terrorist cell based in new york

and also connected to denver, and they're running down every possible lead to try to make sure there's no threat to the public. >> well, you know, jonathan, if you look at those things that have been found, in terms of evidence in their research here, you've got backpacks, you talk about u-haul trucks. those two things immediately, certain things in our past terrorism events bring to mind. is there anything definitive on what was being planned or is this all still in the piecing together stage? >> reporter: it's still in the piecing together stage. if they had it and they knew it, there would have been arrested and there would have been charges, and numerous new york officials have made very clear that if there was any sort of specific threat or plot to the city, there would have been a warning or a bulletin put out. we've seen it many times in the past here for much lesser investigations, if you will, where there was just some sort of hint, some sort of chatter, and as a precaution, they put out bulletins to subway riders or to air travelers and they let

the public know. they can't protect us at all times. the least they can do is provide us with the basic information that, hey, there was some sort of talk about the subways. and they're saying in this case, there's nothing specific to warrant that kind of threat. it's too early on. these were "preventive raids," if you will, to break up whatever might have been going on. and now they're back-tracking to see what was going on. officials think there was something serious going on. that's why there is this 24/7, around-the-clock investigation taking place both in new york and in denver, with intelligence officials overseas monitoring chatter. they're trying to piece it together. there is serious concern. but again, nothing specific, and they believe it was pretty early on. >> jonathan dienst with wnbc. jonathan, many thanks. >> reporter: thank you. >> for more on the continuing investigation and a special report by nbc's pete williams, you can visit msnbc.com. let's go now to a dramatic video of a deadly subway shooting in mexico city. when a man was confronted for

writing graffiti on the subway, he pulled out a pistol and opened fire. subway riders scramble to get out of the way here. one person tries to subdue the gunman, but he gets shot as he tries to grab the gun. police eventually charge in, shooting the suspect and then arresting him. at least two people were killed and six others injured. let's go to politics now. president obama's new attempt to bring his health reform message to you and to everybody you know. he is hitting the talk show circuit this weekend with campaign-like fervor. and on monday, he will be the first sitting president to visit "the late show with david letterman." meantime in a sit-down with david gregory airing tomorrow on "meet the press," the president says jimmy carter was wrong to bring charges of racism into the health care debate. i'm joined now live from the white house by nbc's mike viqueira. mike, good morning to you. >> reporter: good morning, alex. >> let's talk about the president, what he's hoping to accomplish here this weekend. >> reporter: it's almost ironic for the president, perhaps a bitter irony. they're talking about the public option, they're talking about

the employer mandate, individual mandates, they're talking about bending the cost curve. they're talking about insuring the uninsured. all of the points that they're trying to bring home and emphasize over the course of the last several weeks, beginning with that speech to a joint session of congress, continuing on through rallies and now almost an unprecedented five appearances on the sunday talk shows. but instead, they're talking about those comments from former president jimmy carter. it was one of the questions that almost all five of them, as far as we know, all five of these chosen hosts asked the president yesterday. david gregory, of course, "meet the press," and that's the only show you really need to watch, alex, isn't it? he asked the president about that yesterday when these interviews were conducted, again, to be aired tomorrow morning. and here's what he had to say. >> look, i said during the campaign, are there some people who still think through the prism of race when it comes to evaluating me and my candidacy? absolutely. sometimes they vote for me for that reason. sometimes they vote against me for that reason. i'm sure that was true during

the campaign. i'm sure that's true now. but i think you actually put your finger on what this argument's really about, and it's an argument that's gone on for the history of this republic, and that is, what's the right role of government? >> reporter: and there is some criticism from many quarters, who say the president is perhaps overexposed. after all of the rallies, after all of the speeches, after this unprecedented series of interviews to air tomorrow morning, perhaps people are going to start tuning him out, a notion to which the white house scoffs. they believe that the president still has a broad following, that there is an audience for reform. he is trying to keep the public pressure on, trying to keep the public involved, trying to get them to put pressure on members of congress who he's going to need, especially those within their own party and a handful of republicans that they hope to get on board, alex, to pass this when it finally comes to a vote later this fall in both the house and the senate, alex. >> okay. well, it's an all-out effort to get that done.

mike viqueira, thank you so much. >> reporter: certainly. >> watch david gregory's interview with president obama on "meet the press" tomorrow. check your local nbc listings and david will also be speaking with us before "meet the press" airs and give us a little preview at about 8:30 a.m. eastern time tomorrow. coming up this hour, pat buchanan and peter fenn square off on the president's new push for health reform this week. well, a big old mess is being cleaned up in one maryland neighborhood this morning. authorities say a water main burst under a road in dundolf, maryland, on friday. eyewitnesses say it looked like the water was erupting from the ground. there was up to eight feet of standing water in some areas. talk about a mess, right? that water damaged dozens of homes and cars and stranded some people in their homes, left about 1,000 customers without power. the 72-inch water main was closed for about two hours after it ruptured. no injuries have been reported. let's go now to the weather. there's a new storm system that could dump significant amounts of rain across the south this weekend. if we look back to friday, rain certainly was filling the

memphis streets. several cars were damaged. then in leads, alabama, the heavy downpours there forced authorities to close down several streets. well, joining me live, nbc meteorologist bill karins. except for a few places, we're not going to get much of that today. >> i'd say 75% of the country. i've never asked -- here you go, this is a simple one. what's your favorite season? of the year? >> oh, my gosh. i can't do that. it depends where i am. if i'm in the mountains, it's skiing, and if i'm at the beach, it's summer, and if i'm in new york, it's in the fall. sorry. >> so, wherever the private jet takes you. >> yeah. let me just chuck that one out, right. >> let's talk little bit about your saturday forecast. we're watching things out of the southeast, as alex mentioned. some of the worst weather is from nashville to chattanooga, birmingham to atlanta. that's where you have kind of a soggy saturday. that's part of your 25% that does not have an ideal weekend forecast. a lot of wet weather this entire week and it's going to continue saturday, even into sunday down

there, especially from tennessee to georgia. the other story tonight, this is the first time of the year the freeze warnings are out for northern new england, and that means it's going to be the first cold, chilly night. temperatures in the upper 30s to low 40s throughout all of new england. so, it will be a chill when you go grab that paper early tomorrow morning. so, your saturday forecast, as alex mentioned, beautiful minneapolis to chicago. denver's perfect today. many areas out west are fantastic, too. get a sneak peek at your sunday. not a lot changes, alex. really, it's just down there in poor old atlanta that's going to have kind of rainy weekend. >> what's your favorite season? >> spring. it's my birthday month, so, april. >> oh, that's nice. that's nice. okay, thank you very much, bill. still ahead, banks banking on you to be a bad bookkeeper. see how fees are helping banks balance their books. and it takes a mighty big check to have dinner with sarah palin. you're going to see how much someone shelled out for supper with sarah and friends. ♪ the amazing always infinity.

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conservatives from around the country in washington, d.c., this morning for day two of the values voters summit. several gop leaders are speaking at the event. house minority leader john boehner, you see there. he's of ohio, addressing the crowd a short time ago, and he came out swinging. >> i'm leading an effort among south republicans to earn back our majority so we can take the gavel away from nancy pelosi. >> joining me live on the phone in washington, d.c., is tony perkins, the president of the family research council, which is one of the sponsors of the values summit. good morning to you, tony. >> good morning, how are you on this saturday? >> i'm great, thanks. i know you are, too. you're busy. we had you in front of a camera earlier, but there were folks speaking and you didn't want to interrupt. so, i'll ask you to talk to me

now about -- many conservatives have been highly critical of the president's push for health care reform, and we heard some of this at that gathering, but how much push did conservatives make for reform when they had a republican president and a republican congress? >> well, there actually were some elements of the reform that they're still embracing, which would be the tort reform aspects -- and i know that's not popular on the other side of the aisle, although the president did bring it up in his speech. the other aspects that have been floated for a number of years and, of course, is to allow associations, allow people to enlarge the pool of insuries across state lines that drive down the cost by spreading out the risk. so, there's been some ideas, but you're absolutely right, there's been no effort put forth by republicans to do a complete overhaul of the health care system, and the reason is, they don't think the entire system needs to be overhauled. >> okay. but i guess my point is, tony, that if conservatives and liberals agree that a moral question is involved here, that

everyone should have access to health care, could we see that health reform is not as high on the conservative agenda? >> well, i think there's agreement that america, as prosperous as this nation is, that every american should have access to affordable health care. there's no question about that. that's where we're all in agreement. where the breakdown comes is how do we do that? is that a market-based approach or is that a government-based approach? and the proposal by the president and the majority party is a government-based approach, where the republicans have sided more with a market-based. now, if we can take some of the more contentious issues off the table, such as taxpayer funding of abortion, the potential of rationing, conscience rights, if we can get those off the table, i think we can then have a true discussion on what does health care reform look like? >> do you worry at all that conservatives, republicans may be perceived as obstructionists in trying to get any reform done?

>> no, i don't think so, because i think if what we saw over the august break in state after state is that americans are concerned about the increasing size and influence of government. and what we saw in these town hall meetings, what we've seen at these so-called tea parties, it's not just about health care, but i think health care is really a symptom -- people see it as a symptom of a greater problem, and that's the government increasingly taking on the responsibility that belongs to people and increasingly taking on the revenue that's needed to do all of these things, and that means higher taxes. >> you know, tony, you mentioned some of the things you're concerned about. can you specifically talk about rationing and what your concerns are there? >> well, the president in his speech to the nation in the joint session of congress said that this was going to be paid for by savings in medicare and medicaid, about $500 billion. well, it's hard to imagine that there's that much waste and

abuse in the system, and if there are, if there's economies of scale, if there's something we can do different, i would say, you know, let's do that. in fact, why don't we do that now and let's show the american people that we can't actually manage a program, and then we'll probably have more credibility with actually running a whole system. but when you talk about saving that kind of money, the only way that you can really get that kind of money out is to begin to cut services. and we base that not just on theory, but the fact that there were a number of amendments offered during the process in both the house and the senate that would have specifically prohibited the government from rationing care, having a board like they do in the uk called n.i.c.e., that decides, you know, what's the threshold, what age -- if you're a certain age, do you still qualify for this or you have enough life left in you to qualify for a particular procedure. that's concerning.

while we know it's not specifically written into the bill, where it may lead may lead to rationing, and that's the concern. >> okay. tony, about three hours or so until we get the results of the straw poll there, picking the early presidential favorite for 2012. who do you think the front-runner is and who do you think values -- or rather, reflects the values voter agenda best? >> well, ask me in three hours and i may be able to give you an answer. i don't know. that's one of the reasons we're doing this. we want to know. we've given them all a chance to come and speak to the values voters and then we're going to see what people think. >> you don't have any idea? >> i really don't. >> not even a gut reaction, not even the buzz from being in the room? >> no. it's been equal. we've had some, you know, some great speeches here, some people that have really laid out some ideas and their thoughts, and i'm hearing, you know, it may very well be equally divided at this point. i don't know. i'm going to be interested probably more so than you are to see what the results are, because i think it's going to be shaping the debate going

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health care here, there and everywhere. president obama's banking on an all-out media blitz to seal the deal for health reform. he'll appear in four interviews tomorrow and then be on "the late show with david letterman." i'm joined by my boys, pat buchanan and democratic strategist peter fenn. gee, it feels good to say that. hi, guys, welcome back. thanks for coming back. >> thank you. >> pat, today's tv audience is spread out over competing networks, countless cable options, the internet as well,

if he works all that in. if you were advising the president, is this what you would suggest to spread his message, get out there everywhere? >> no. they obviously haven't been taking my advice for a long time. i think they've been making a big mistake. they've got a very priceless asset in barack obama as a fascinating individual, and of course, the president of the united states, first african-american. i think he should save himself and use him the way they did in that huge speech before the congress and the united states in joint session, which i thought was very effective. it was partisan, tough, but it was very effective. but keep putting him out and out and out. they're depreciating and devaluing the asset. people are going to get bored with him. and putting him on five tv shows -- look, i said last week, alex, they're going to ask him about health care because they've got to, but that's not what they're interested in. they're interested in what do you think about what jimmy carter said about joe wilson being motivated by racism and all these folks out there demonstrated being motivated by racism? and that's what every one of

them ask him, and that's going to be the news story out of it. it's going to be what's being played on the evening news and the cable networks day in and day out afterwards, not what he says about the government option or all those other things he said a thousand times before. >> you know what, pat, how annoying is that for the white house to deal with that? because the president calls it a distraction. >> well, it is a distraction! and he wants to talk about health care. they're going to ask him, okay, what about the troops in afghanistan? how can you talk to an iran whose president says the holocaust was a lie, mr. president? so, you get all those issues, and that's exciting tv, and that's what's going to be put on the air. i would have gone with david gregory's one show and i would have said, ground rules, you've got to ask us about health care. obviously, you're going to ask about other things, but you've got to ask us about health care. and then have about three or four fresh lines on health care that everybody would have to pick up and play defense on the carter thing. that's what i would have told him to do. >> what about overexposure,

peter? is there a concern about that specifically for health care? because at what point do people glaze over? they've heard about this leading up to the summer, the town hall meetings, everything since. >> well, there is no question, alex, that barack obama is communicator in chief. there's no question that he is the best person out there to explain the health care legislation and to carry it through and push it through. you know, pat has a point. the question is how you put him out there. do you do this block so that any time you turn on your tv on sunday you're going to see barack obama? they obviously think that this is the best way to connect with the american people. and one of the things that's important -- >> peter, may i ask you a question, though? if they think that this is the best way to connect with the american people, if the president is the best spokesman for health reform, why did the white house leave the health care message this summer to congressional democrats and the town hall meetings? was that a mistake in

retrospect? >> well, you know, i think one of the things that they are obviously trying to do was to make sure that congress felt a part of this process, unlike with the clinton operation. there was all this criticism that it was done in secret and put out there. so, they were very concerned about that. i think hindsight is 20/20. should he have gone and done his own series of town hall meetings earlier than he did? maybe so. but the problem is, you need something to talk about. now you have the baucus bill. but let me also make this point, alex. you know, if he wasn't out there, if he wasn't going to the university of maryland, wasn't traveling the country, wasn't doing these shows, wasn't on "letterman," everybody would say, oh, he's got this rose garden strategy, he's hiding. he doesn't want to explain his program. he doesn't want to get on and talk about it. >> peter -- >> so you've got to figure this out, you know? >> you know what, peter used the phrase rose garden strategy. it's from the nixon campaign in 1972 when nixon did not mention mcgovern's name -- >> did you write it?

>> it's a who -- no, i'm talking about the summit, the summit meeting coming up. i don't know who you're talking about. and the rest of us coming out there, us lowlings, we were out there ripping mcgovern up by name. we're the second and third echelons of ethicacy for obama on health care. where is joe biden? why isn't he carrying the torch against this death panel stuff? >> he was overseas. but you're right, kathleen sebelius, you've got a lot of people. but go back to my basic point, which is, this is a president who, even though his job performance numbers have gone down this last six months, come down from historic highs, you know, his personal plart is still very high. >> yeah. >> so, clearly, the white house says he's personally popular, people like him, they're listening to him. but you know, the focus is going to be on health care. it can't be on race issues right now. >> all right, you guys. i'm convinced the personal

popularity of the president will be eve higher after the letterman appearance because he communicates well and he's funny. i think he's going to go great head to head with david letterman. all right, thank you. so good to see you. we'll see you next weekend. still ahead, the world's nuclear mystery. is iran really getting ready to go nuclear? is it ready to, at least, and what will russia now do in talks with iran? the questions and answers, coming up. of butternut squash, blended with delicate herbs. v8 golden butternut squash. from campbell's. a soup so velvety and delicious you won't be able to contain yourself. campbell's v8 soups. you must be looking for motorcycle insurance. you're good. thanks. so is our bike insurance. all the coverage you need at a great price. hold on, cowboy. cool. i'm not done -- for less than a dollar a month, you also get 24/7 roadside assistance. ght on. yeah, vroom-vroom! sounds like you ran a 500. more like a 900 v-twin.

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engage with iran. >> joining us now from ann arbor is juan cole, professor of middle eastern history at the university of michigan and author of numerous books on iran. and good morning to you, sir. >> thank you so much. >> let's talk right now about the new report out this week about iran's nuclear capability. there is an ap report that says an undisclosed international atomic energy report reveals iran has developed the technological capability to build a nuclear weapon. meanwhile, there's this new article in "newsweek" that says they're not restarting their nuclear weapons development program. do you think we really know what's going on inside iran right now? >> yeah, i think american intelligence has a very good idea of what's going on. it's gotten people to defect from the nuclear research program, and they've brought out documents. we've tapped into their electronic communications. it seems clear that they are not pursuing a nuclear weapon, but

they are pursuing the ability to close the fuel cycle, which means that in the future, if they change their mind, they could start up a weapons program. >> all right, i'm curious if you think there is a correlation between what the intelligence community communicates to the white house and the fact that we have a new administration in power. >> well, the 2007 national intelligence estimate also said that iran does not have a nuclear weapons program as far as we can tell. it's assessed with a fair amount of confidence. and so, the intelligence community is just going on telling us the same thing. i think what secretary of state clinton is saying is that the iranians are not being completely cooperative with the united nations inspections. we want more access to their scientists. we want to have access to the engineers that design the centrifuges to get the exact specifications. if only the iranians would go,

you know, another 5%, we could be more assured that our intelligence is accurate. >> this week we also saw the obama administration take the step of downsizing a proposed missile defense program that the bush administration had planned as a way to protect against possible uranium missiles. there is a suggestion that this has a lot to do with russia, but how much does this really have to do with iran? >> well, i think also the intelligence on the missile program that iran has suggests that they're a long way from having a long-range missiles that could strike europe. there's also no particular reason for them to hit poland. and so, that was an expensive program. it probably was fairly useless. the same thing can be achieved from our ships that are mounted with antimissile missiles, so, the obama administration removed a road block to cooperation with russia on iran at the same time

that it secured the country. so, i think it's a win-win. >> okay. well, thank you so much, juan cole. we appreciate your time there from ann arbor. middle eastern professor there at the university of michigan. thank you. >> thank you. and actor danny glover is weighing in on u.s. relations with cuba. glover is in havana with fellow actor harry belafonte for the opening of the caribbean film festival. the actor was asked if he thinks obama will bring a change to the relationship between the u.s. and cuba. >> i would think that everything is possible, and i want to believe that the change that obama has talked about, has embraced the change he campaigned on includes that change as well. >> recently, president obama renewed the embargo against cuba for another year. let's go now to the economy. and federal regulators have shut down two more banks. that makes 94 bank failures so

far this year. meanwhile, fees associated with your bank account are adding up faster than you might think. joining me live, msnbc financial analyst vera gibbons. i'm not sure it's such a good morning. want to talk to you -- >> more failures as well. >> yeah. 94 banks this year overall, but let's talk about all these fees. can consumers expect new ones? >> yes. >> or an increase in declining fees or what? >> yeah, and i'll tell you why, alex. banks made $1.4 trillion in bad loans during the credit bubble. >> wow. >> so they need to shore up the balance sheets and that means more fees. fees now account for 53% of their income, up from 35% in 1995. so, they need this money coming in. overdraft fees a big one, $40 billion a year in overdraft fees. those are costing $35 per overdraft. >> now, wait a minute, there's got to be a way to avoid overdraft charges, outside of obviously keeping the money in the bank. >> be a good bookkeeper, have a buffer of $50 to prevent this. you can also set up a credit line or link to a savings account, maybe have the bank

alert you when your account runs low. but part of the problem is that banks tend to clear the largest items first and work their way down to the smaller ones. so, your rent, your mortgage, deposits are clear last, so you could get hit over and over again, several times a day. >> like a $10 check can bounce and you're paying $35 or -- >> a cup of coffee could end up costing you $39. >> what about interest rates, are banks still raising them on credit cards? >> they are. they are. unfortunately, they can raise the rates on the credit cards whenever they want to. they have to give you 45 days notice, up from 15 previously. >> right. >> so, that's one of the changes. but what they're still doing is that nasty little practice of taking people from say 15%, 16%, right up to the default rate, even if you've done nothing wrong. so, people are annoyed. they're tired of this, tired of the shenanigans. they don't want to wait for the reform to go into place in 2010. so actually, more people, alex, are switching to debit cards. 50% of transactions are now debit cards. >> i've done that. it's like a weight off your mind. >> and i'm sure you don't

overdraw. >> well, it makes you stop. you go, i know how much i have, i can't go there. and that leaks into the mentality of all the consumers. caution. >> exactly. >> i need to spend more, right? >> spend, spend. >> i'm not going to do it. vera gibbons, thanks very much. >> thanks, alex. now a couple items in our "yes, it's true" segment. we begin with sarah palin, because an alabama woman is paying $63,500 to have dinner with the former vice presidential candidate. the dinner was a charity auction on the internet to help wounded veterans, but there are some deal-breakers. the winner must meet standards of suitability and professionalism and the dinner will last no more than four hours. oh, and the lunch with karl rove, the results are being auctioned. the winning bid there $16,000. and also, the regulations for the winners include passing a background check. a chicago area home featured in "ferris buehler's day off" could be facing the wrecking ball. yes, that's true. an illinois landmarks preservation group says the home's for sale for almost $2.5 million, and interested buyers are talking about tearing it down to split the lot.

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tomorrow on "meet the press," david gregory goes one on one with president obama. and topping the agenda, the economy, afghanistan, and former president carter's assertion that race is a key motivator for those opposed to health reform. >> look, i said during the campaign, are there some people who still think through the prism of race when it comes to evaluating me and my candidacy? absolutely. sometimes they vote for me for that reason. sometimes they vote against me for that reason. i'm sure that was true during the campaign. i'm sure that's true now. but i think you actually put your finger on what this argument's really about, and it's an argument that's gone on for the history of this republic, and that is, what's the right role of government? how do we balance freedom with

our need to look after one another? i talked about this in the joint session speech. this is not a new argument, and it always invokes passions. >> again, you can watch david gregory's entire interview with the president on "meet the press" tomorrow. check your local nbc listings and tune in here at 8:30 a.m. eastern time. david gregory will discuss with us what's coming up on "meet the press." let's bring in carl jeffords, political analyst and contributor with "the huffington post." good morning to you, carl. >> hi, alex. good to see you again. >> you, too. what's your take on what the president had to say? >> well, number one, the president's in sort of a win-lose situation here. people had been complaining that he needed to get out more, talk more and be more of an advocate for his health care plan. now that he's announcing that he's going on all of the major cable networks and broadcast networks tomorrow, now people are arguing, is he overexposed? i mean, he can't win for losing. i think he has to get out there. and frankly, alex, as long as he doesn't interfere with the

giants/cowboys game tomorrow night, he can stay on the air all day long, because he needs to be out there for health care reform because that's his greatest strength. his two greatest strengths are his intellectual grav as it and his oratorical skills. so, he's got to use them and he has not been using the oratorical skills as effectively as he needs to if he's going to get a meaningful health care bill passed. >> but you -- >> so, i applaud him for going out there. >> carl, the white house had tried to stay away from the race card discussion over carter's remarks. >> yeah. >> did the president did the right thing in finally addressing this issue or should he have let it be? >> you know, interestingly enough, alex, number one, the president didn't address the issue. i am now convinced that the obama administration is determined to try to skate through either four years or eight years, depending on his term, without really coming to grips with the conversation on race that we need in america. so, to that degree, he really

doesn't benefit the conversation any morning than if he were not an african-american president. >> if, carl, if you are right, what is the reasoning for that, for skirting around this issue? is it because it bogs down the conversation about other issues, that it will take precedent? why is that? why do you want him to address this? >> from a political strategy point of view, there is something to be said for anything, avoiding any issue that distracts from your main message. right now, his main message is health care reform. and we understand that. so, if you somehow dilute that issue and move it to race, that distracts from that. so, from a political perspective, i understand that, but in terms of the race issue itself, for the president to respond to david gregory, and i almost thought when he said, "you hit it on the head, david," remember that? >> yeah, yeah, yeah. >> and i thought he was going to say something about race. instead, he said that historically, the issue that we've been most arguing about is the role of government.

in other words, even president obama doesn't want to address the race issue, and somebody better start doing it, because we have got people out there going to tea parties and town halls claiming we want our country back, which is code words. we've got people demanding to see his birth certificate, which they don't do for other presidents. and we have parents keeping their kids home from school so that they wouldn't risk the danger of having them hear words from the president of the united states. >> let me ask you this, though, "washington post" columnist eugene robinson wrote on friday that there is this nasty edge to some of the attacks, that they are a rejection not of obama's programs, but of his legitimacy as president. some even say that joe wilson's outburst was an example of that. do you think there's a danger, carl, in framing criticism of the president as racist? >> well, there's danger in framing it as racist if there are no justifications for it. but the reality is, there is as an undercurrent in this country

an element of race that impacts virtually everything we do. and if everyone runs away from it, including the president, we will never get to it. i mean, listen, alex, i will be the first to tell you, there are many hundreds of thousands, even millions of americans who are opposed to the president's plan that has nothing to do with race. they're just opposed to the health plan. but on the other hand, jimmy carter, he overestimated a bit as a result of that the number of people who are responding to race. but those who say on the other end that it's just an extreme fringe group who are, in fact, using race, they are also wrong. it's much more than that. the fringe group is going to the parties and to the town halls, shoulders strapped with armed weapons, ready to fire. but it's not just the fringe group that is claiming that they want to see his birth certificate and that they want our country back and keeping their kids home from school. >> listen, carl, we've got a satellite window that's going to close up, so i want to say a

nice, clean thank you before you get cut off. good to see you. thanks, friend. >> thank you, alex. >> logon to firstread.msnbc.com for all the analysis from the nbc political unit. and you may not recognize this man you're of you way past your bedtime. you can blame it on his new best selling book. now you know who it is. you're watching msnbc saturday. (announcer) studies show that kids who have regular family dinners

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the new book by dan brown is breaking records. "the lost symbol" sold a million copies on its first day. the 600-page thriller brings back the character robert langdon a code cracker, who is now focusing on the freemasons. in a "today" show interview with matt lauer, brown explained why he chose washington, d.c., as the setting for the book. >> washington, d.c., has everything that rome, paris, and london have in the way of great

architecture, great power bases. washington has pyramids and underground tunnels and great art and a whole shadow world we really don't see. >> joining me now is louisa. how exciting is this book for the publishing world? 1 million copies sold on one day. >> i always say dan brown is a force of nature and we're thankful for him because selling books is wonderful. >> are you getting evidence of how this one stacks up with the di vinci code? is it as good, as compelling. will it be a hard act to follow? >> i think he's done it already. opening up with 1 million copies the first day. it's fascinating. and it's got the same qualities. it's mysterious. now we have freemasons. opus dei, these are like

timbuktu. just exciting. >> what is that? you use the word exciting. we hear it so many times. what is it about that that appeals to all of us? >> it's the second one so we know he can do it and we're excited for a follow-up and we've waited a long time. the book is late so the tension builds, and you know, there's also something with the first one the stars crossed. if i see one more review that says di vinci code like. it just happened for him and it's mysterious. it's a puzzle. everyone loves a puzzle. before i was even aware of this book i was at a conference and i remember going for coffee and there were all these people talking about this book. what page were you on? did you figure this out. >> you mean diagnos"di vinci co" it was everywhere.

>> i was in ethiopia, there was nothing familiar in this country. i was really in space, and i'm in the airport and there's two things that i saw that were familiar. there was a container of pringles and there was "the di vinci code" by dan brown. i have never seen anything like this book. it just went on and on. >> what about robert langdon? is this a character you think has staying power for future books? >> yes, because people associate with characters. they like the familiarity. they feel like they know him. you know, it's an element that works when you can do it. >> but, you know, it takes him a long time to write these books. is there a chance people will lose interest after a while? harry potter books, i think we were good to have it all wrap up. >> right. well, this is only really the second one that's really hit like this, and i also think that if he can keep them coming, it will work. i don't know where he's going to hit next.

>> louisa, thank you very much. >> thank you. >> it was nice to meet you. thanks for joining us. with that, everyone. it is a wrap of our live msnbc saturday coverage. you can stay with us for live headlines. have yourself a great day and wake up for me tomorrow morning. i'll be looking for you 8:00 a.m. eastern time. make it a great saturday. see you. introducing blueprint. blueprint is free and only for chase customers. it lets you choose what purchases you want to pay in full to avoid interest...with full pay. and those you split... you decide how to pay over time. if having a plan matters. chase what matters. create your own blueprint at chase.com/blueprint.

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