>> mika knows him -- well, she knows him now. she knows him a lot better now. >> he was giving me tips. >> is that what you call it now. okay. like a scene out of the "wedding crashers." >> so the president was on "meet the press." >> and everything else too. >> did you see anything that surprised you out of any of those interviews? >> there's that exchange we're going to show -- on "this week," i believe, about taxes versus surcharg surcharges. i can't believe we're still trying to straighten that out. but not really. how about you? >> the big news came afterwards when mcchrystal, the general that's running the war in afghanistan, says send me more troops or we will fail. the president has some tough choices to make. >> the front page of "the wall

street journal," the dow nears 10,000 but some see bears ahead. some are expecting a dip in this recession. the question is whether this is all over or just about to start again. >> a terror plot broken up by the fbi this past weekend. tommy is going to be with us today. talk to him about that. and, willie, great day for new york sports teams. >> jets and giants. two great games, two big wins for the new york teams. huge. >> four big wins in the loss column, my friend. >> by the way, you guys don't play another major league team for the rest of the year except for the yankees, the royals, the orioles. >> this is true. >> let's get to the news. time for a look at some of the day's top stories. according to this morning's "washington post," the top commander in afghanistan is

warning the battle against insurgents will "likely result in failure" unless more forces are added to the fight without a new strategy. general stanley mcchrystal suggests the mission should not be resourced. "failure to gain initiative and reverse insurgent momentum in the near term, next 12 months, while afghan security capacity matures, risks an outcome where defeating the insurgency is no longer possible." president obama tells nbc's david gregory he is still weighing his options. >> i don't have a deadline for withdrawal, but i'm certainly not somebody who believes in indefinite occupations of other countries. i'm not interested in just being in afghanistan for the sake of being in afghanistan or saving face or in some way sending a message that america is here for the duration. i think it's important that we match strategy to resources.

what i'm not also not going to do is put the resource question before the strategy question. until i'm satisfied we've got the right strategy, i'm not going to be sending some young man or woman over there beyond what we already have. >> you know, mika, at some point we have to choose. >> yeah, we do. >> we cannot fight two hot wars over the next decade. >> but these guys bring a credible other side to the story. >> then we have to make choices. are we going to start bringing a lot of men and women out of iraq quickly so we can bring them to afghanistan? mike, we've asked the army and the marines to do so much over the past eight years. i know the other services have been sacrificing too, but my god, the army is breaking. >> all three forces are breaking, joe. this is a front page story of "the washington post" by bob woodward, who has general mcchrystal's assessment.

it includes warnings, if you try to improve the situation on the ground in afghanistan, it's going to ultimately result in higher casualty rates among u.s. forces. >> not only that, which of course is the ultimate tragedy, but for those who survive, they're going to come home to broken families. they're going to come home to children they haven't seen in years. they're going to come home to a nightmare of personal problems. that is a readiness issue. we have stretched our military men and women as as far as we can stretch them. if the president wants to send more troops to afghanistan, then we're going -- if we're going to double down in afghanistan and stay there for a long time, then we're going to have to get out of iraq. i know neocons don't like to hear that. that's the reality. it's just a numbers game. if neocons can somehow figure out a way to get the american people to raise taxes so we can have 200,000 more men and women in the army and marines, fine. figure out a way to do that.

we can't keep asking our soldiers and sailors and marines and airmen to do the things they've been doing since 2001. they are breaking. >> i don't disagree. three men are due in court today charged with making false statements in connection with a terror plot aimed at new york city. at the center of the probe is a 24-year-old colorado man originally from afghanistan. police say a search of his rental car uncovered nine pages of handwritten notes, including information on how to build and handle bombs. his father and a third man were also arrested. >> and reports were that he'd gotten training from al qaeda in pakistan. >> terrific. as congress continues debating a health care overhaul, president obama is defending part of the proposal that would fine people for not buying health insurance. >> under this mandate, the government is forcing people to spend money, fining you if you don't. how is that not a tax? >> hold on a second, george.

you can't make up language and decide that's called a tax increase. >> a charge usually of money imposed by authority on persons or property for public purposes. >> george, the fact that you looked up mehriam's dictionary, the definition of tax increase, indicate you're stretching a bit. >> your critics say it's a tax increase. >> my critics say everything is a tax increase. my critics say i'm taking over every sector of the economy. you know that. >> that's circular logic. the fact that george stephanopoulos actually had the definition that describes exactly what he's doing, you can call it what you want to call it. >> it's going to come out of our pockets. >> during the recession. >> part of that plays out each and every day in massachusetts, which some of this plan is formulated on, and it is this. if you can't afford health insurance, how can you afford to be fined for not having health insurance? if you're just too poor, i mean, come on. >> meanwhile, the president is

rejecting an assertion by former president carter that most of the backlash against his administration's policies is baseded on race. >> the media loves to have a conversation about race. this is catnip to the media because it is a running thread in american history that's very powerful and evokes some very strong emotions. i'm not saying that race never matters in any of these public debates that we have. what i'm saying is this debate that's taking place is not about race, it's about people being worried about how our government should operate. >> yeah. >> i just want to say this. people wonder why conservatives don't trust the media. we had the van jones story and the acorn story that everybody buried. this jimmy carter story is yet another story of where the mainstream media treated a

democratic president differently than they would a republican president. over the weekend, i started getting quotes sent to me from jimmy carter, the segregationist while he was on the school board in georgia, jimmy carter, the person who played the race card pretty damn well in 1970 while running for governor. the first person in the mainstream media, by the way, for his checkered past on race issues was bob pirper, "new york times," who on saturday wrote a column talking about racism in america and the fear that he and other people of color have. but also some interesting quotes from jimmy carter in his 1976 presidential campaign. now, i would just ask you, if george w. bush in his 1978 campaign for congress made segregationist remarks, said we were going to do everything we could to keep white children and black children separated and try not to build schools too close

to each other, do you think that that may have led those first stories when george w. bush accused democrats of being racist? yes or no. >> i think that jimmy carter -- >> come on, mika. this is why conservatives don't trust the media. >> no. i want to try and explain that i think that jimmy carter, his timing and choice of words was just terrible. >> i'm not even talking about that. i'm talking about media bias. let's just stop and -- you're not going to answer this question. mike barnicle, i'm going to turn to you and ask you the same question the conservatives want answered. if a republican president with a checkered past on race relations had accused democrats of being racist, do you think there is a chance that "the new york times" would have found those quotes from the past and used them against the republican president? >> above the fold. >> above the fold. >> above the fold.

>> day one, screaming headline. >> well, yeah, above the fold. absolutely. >> first day. >> absolutely brought to our attention as a public service. public has a right to know. i would just say this about jimmy carter. i have great faith and confidence in this country, in the strength of this country. we survived a carter presidency. we can survive anything. >> god bless america. all right, mika. you want to answer it yet or not. governor david paterson is vowing to run for a full term despite pressure from the white house urging him to withdraw from the race. administration officials say, while they're not calling on paterson to abandon his bid, they admit there was concern about his ability to win. paterson insists he is not dropping out. >> i have said time and time again that i am running for governor next year. i am not going to discuss confidential conversations. right now my focus is that we have the most unprecedented deficit in the history of this state and the fewest means to fight back.

that's where my focus is. >> okay. keep on keeping on. gentlemen, stop. >> broadway and 94th. >> i'm moving on. in the battle for tv's top shows, nbc's "30 rock" and amc's "mad men" are still on top. nbc's mark barger has a look at all the winners. >> here's hoping kanye west likes "30 rock." >> reporter: neil patrick harris joked about it to start the night. >> "30 rock." >> reporter: and three hours later, the nbc sitcom won its third straight emmy. >> we want to thank everyone at nbc for keeping us on the air even though we are so much more expensive than a talk show. >> reporter: co-star alec baldwin also won best actor for the second year in a row. >> this is the greatest shock i'll ever have. >> reporter: there was a surprise for best actress as

toni colette of the cable comedy "the united states of tara" beat out others, including tina fey. >> this is extremely exciting. >> reporter: it was deja vu in the drama category. >> "mad men." >> reporter: two straight wins as best drama. >> we worked very hard to not have it stink the second year. >> reporter: "damages" star glenn close made it two straight wins as best actress. >> it's a job that makes it worthwhile leaving home for. >> i'm so thankful that glenn close is actually a woman. >> reporter: another repeat winner is brian kran ston for "breaking bad." another repeat winner was "the daily show," seven straight wins as best variety, music, or comedy series. >> i thank you again for giving me the opportunity to come up here and then go backstage and watch a football game. >> reporter: only one winner in dallas, but on this night, many in hollywood.

mike barger, nbc news. >> that's a look at the news. it's always fun to watch that show. never have because it's too late. >> how about alec baldwin? >> i love him. >> seriously, born for that role. he is a great actor in everything he does. he was born for that role. >> he reminds me of someone. let's get a check on -- >> i never dated condi rice. >> who does he remind you of? >> he reminds me of someone. >> that character? are you saying? >> anyhow. >> jack donaghy? >> joe in >> time to get a check on the weather with bill karins. quick now, bill. >> very good. we've got some serious weather to talk about this morning. hope everyone had a wonderful weekend. in the atlanta area, flash flooding over the weekend. water rescues overnight. we have flash flood warnings covering much of northern

georgia at this time. that is easily the worst weather in the country. we also have a line of strong storms that will approach kansas city in about an hour or two from right now. other than that, the weather is actually looking pretty nice on the west coast. much of the deep south from dallas to san antonio is beautiful. how about the weekend we just had in the northeast and mid-atlantic? we continue it today. last day of summer. mid-70s. enjoy it. coming up, what are the u.s. options for winning in afghanistan? if you can win there. in a few minutes, we're going to talk strategy with the president on the council on foreign relations richard haass. and former british prime minister tony blair will join us on set. and we're going to ask senator dick durbin if the baucus plan can pass in the senate. >> i wonder with olympia snowe talking about this if we may get a couple of republicans on health care reform. >> and senator john barrasso. why he thinks the debate needs

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beautiful picture. look at that shot. >> here with us now, chief political correspondent for politico mike allen. good morning, mike. >> happy monday, willie. >> happy monday. barnacle and i were sitting on the back porch together talking baseball, and then it came to cap and trade. and we said what in the devil ever happened to cap and trade? do you have an answer for us, mike? >> i do. before we get to cap and trade, i have another definition for you. george stephanopoulos brought along his merriam webster dictionary. i too have visual aids. i brought along a copy of the baucus bill. page 29 of the chairman's mark, sentence one, the consequence for not maintaining insurance

would be an excise tax. >> he used the "t" word. >> the word "tax" is actually in the bill. is that what you're telling us? >> do you think that would be big on talk radio today? >> whoa. >> you're bringing that up, that's just catnip. >> we can't help ourselves. >> we have to get all over those things. >> that's just catnip. >> it's cable chatter. >> wait a second. i guess george wasn't reaching. >> mike, the fact that you had to look that up tells me you're reaching. >> looking at the bill. stop that. >> let's talk about cap and trade, though. all the talk has been health reform, financial services reform. what's going on with cap and trade? >> people assumed this would be pushed off until next year. the president got a strong vote in the house. the big u.n. summit on climate change in copenhagen in december, people thought, wow, he should go there with that strong bill. there's a new push to get the senate to vote on this after

health care. it's probably in november. >> lots of luck, fella. >> that's going to go down well with the senators. let's see,risked my political career on a health care bill that i don't want, now i'm going to vote on something the people call energy tax. i'll do it all in my first year. >> i think we can call joe skeptical. >> whau do you think, though? and i mean this seriously. politically, these poor moderate democrats have had to do so much heavy lifting in 2009. >> there have been a lot of tough votes. that's probably why it will wind up being next year. people in the clean energy movement, the energy independence movement, as they call it, recognize that delay can be death for a bill. they don't want the same thing to happen this winter that happened to health care this summer. so they've built a climate change war room. they're making plans for advertising. they have activities already in

20 states to try to build support for this so that opponents don't get the debate as happened with health care in august. >> let's see how aggressively harry reid, who is upside down in his own poll numbers in nevada, let's see how aggressively harry reid goes after that. >> what phrase goes through your mind when you hear him mention a climate change war room? >> i was thinking, i wonder what heath schuler thinks about that? i wonder what blue dogs in the south -- >> the war room actually is armed with a new poll just for heath schuler showing them in their district, if they talk about it and explain their vote on energy, it actually isn't harmful. the conventional wisdom is wrong. >> who came up with that poll? >> this is a democratic poll that's being put up by the climate people. >> let's try this one out, mike. let's try this one out. we've got congressman schuler, who if you're too poor to have health care reform, he voted for a bill that was going to tax you. and now he wants to tax your

energy. i'm not saying let's let the cat back in the barn, but that's not going to do it. >> i can't wait to hear tom friedman coming up. >> i'm sorry. go ahead. >> i want to talk about the blue dogs. i guess they're not down with president obama, who went down to wall street last monday talking about regulation of the financial markets. tell us about that. >> this surprised me. i thought the financial services reform was on a pretty clear glide path and that was one of the measures that had the best chance this fall. but blue dogs don't like the president's plan either. community bankers tell them that this new consumer financial protection agency that the president has proposed would hurt smaller banks. and so they're trying to do something that would be less intrusive. so there's another example of the conservative democrats choking on administration plans. >> and we had chris dodd over the weekend talking about some kind of a super agency to

regulate all finances. thanks so much, mike allen. >> thank you, mike. my point -- all i'm talking about. don't shoot me, i'm only the piano player, as elton john once said. i'm just talking about the political realities for these blue dogs and these moderate democrats, who believe you me, bloggers on the huffington post and daily cost might think they're rightly nuts and barack obama has not been liberal enough. they get pounded every time they go home. they have done so much heavy lifting in 2009. so anyway. >> isn't that why we send them there, though? to make tough votes. >> sure, yeah. >> they're supposed to be real men. >> still ahead, the moderator of "meet the press." >> they're supposed to do what is right and not be hammered by the huffington post. just because they think it's the right thing to do in san francisco doesn't mean they think it's the right thing to do

in tennessee. alec baldwin? really? >> david gregory will be joining us. he sat down with president obama over the weekend. also, political analyst harold ford jr. will be here. after the break, a look at what's making headlines in papers from around the country. we'll be right back with more "morning joe." >> i think that fox news sunday is a truly fair and balanced show. >> you're not an ideological show at all. >> no. it's like they refuse to take yes for an answer. there's a kind of chidishness. these guys, everything is personal. i've got to tell you -- >> everything. >> they are the biggest bunch of cry babies i have dealt with in my 30 years in washington. >> and i can't -- >> they constantly are on the phone or e-mailing me complaining, well, you had this guest or you did this thing. they are working it all the time. i think it works with the others. it doesn't work with me. pure cane sugar and the stevia plant. two of nature's sweetest wonders growing together

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gentlemen, you booked your hotels on orbitz. well, the price went down, so you're all getting a check thanks. for the difference. except for you -- you didn't book with orbitz, so you're not getting a check. well, i think we've all learned a valuable lesson today. good day, gentlemen. thanks a lot. thank you. introducing hotel price assurance, where if another orbitz customer books the same hotel for less, we send you a check for the difference, automatically. well, look at that. >> gorgeous morning. great time to be back in new york. >> poughkeepsie, you are looking good. >> that's nice. like a painting. >> beautiful. >> welcome back to "morning joe." it is just after 6:30 on the east coast. >> weather is great out there too. >> yes, it was fun, wasn't it? i just didn't get out running. we were too busy. some of today's top stories. the top u.s. commander in afghanistan, general stanley

mcchrystal says, without a boost in forces, the battle against insurgents will end in failure. it comes in a confidential assessment obtained by "the washington post." mcchrystal calls for a new counterinsurgency strategy to battle not only militants but also central afghan governments mired in the corruption. in washington state, a schizophrenic killer is back in custody after escaping while on a field trip from a mental constitution. police say philip was on the run for four days before being recaptured on sunday. >> they take him to sea world? >> the interesting part of that story is that he was captured yesterday by the same sheriff's deputy who captured him when he escaped in 1991. >> true story. >> that's weird. and at the weekend box office, it was all about 3-d animation. "cloudy with a chance of meatballs," an adaptation of the children's book earned just over $30 million to take the top

spot. mat damon's "the informant" made $10.4 million. >> that looks funny. >> yes, it does. let's take a look at the morning papers. a lot going on. "the wall street journal" before the g-20 summit, a group of countries are working on a plan for growth that would mean big changes to global economic policy. >> and "the new york times," new york governor david paterson decides to stay in the race despite pressure from the white house. >> more forces are need or mission failure on "the washington post." the top commander for afghanistan calls the next 12 months decisive. >> new york post, fbi describes bomb plot. a man arrested in colorado and trained with al qaeda and had bomb making notes on his laptop. >> "usa today," a big day for new york football. the giants foil the cowboys with a late field goal to end. the jets get their first home win against the patriots' tom brady. >> mark sanchez may be the real deal. >> interesting piece in "the new

york times," katie couric kind of making a comeback. >> also, you have a story circled. the president talking about the possibility of maybe using federal money to prop up newspapers. >> there is that. >> we'll talk about that a little bit later. of course, top of all the newspapers, alabama, crimson tide, number three. number three. >> roll tide. >> we beat this past weekend handily the north texas junior varsity squad. >> coming up next, guys. >> they were number seven in the coed league. >> we've got the president of the council on foreign relations, richard haass. also, the must read opinion pages, including one by thomas friedman. why he says real men tax gas. you're watching "morning joe" brewed by starbucks. what are we waiting for? the flowers are blooming. the air is sweet. and zyrtec® starts... relieving my allergies... 2 hours faster than claritin®. my worst symptoms feel better, indoors and outdoors.

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when we came in, i think everybody understood our afghanistan strategy was somewhat adrift, despite the

extraordinary valor of the young men and women who are fighting there. what we said was let's do a soup to nuts reevaluation, focusing on what our original goal was, which was to get al qaeda, the people who killed 3,000 americans. to the extent that our strategy in afghanistan is serving that goal, then we're on the right track. if it starts drifting away from that goal, then we may have a problem. >> now the president of the council on foreign relations richard haass. he's also the author of "war of necessity, war of choice," a memoir of two iraq wars. you have called afghanistan war a war of choice. mcchrystal says we need to double down or all is lost. what does the president do? >> the president is clearly thinking about this because this march towards what he called the war of necessity, this march towards increasing the number of combat troops is clearly slowing down. mcchrystal is saying, unless we give it more resources and more combat troops, we're going to lose. he hasn't made the case, nor has

the president, if we do do that, if we do increase our forces, we will succeed there. more importantly -- >> richard, let be real here, though. the president is going to give the general the troops. he's got no other political choice. whether that's the right thing to do or not. >> there's also the question of how many more troops and what do they do? does he give them more fighters? does he give them more trainers? my own hunch is he's going to look for ways to reorient the u.s. mission towards training rather than war fighting. the bigger debate is it's not how much we do. you're beginning to see your first debate. just say the united states does add more troops to afghanistan. will that really make that much of a difference to the global effort against terrorism? if al qaeda can't set up shop in afghanistan? what if they say in pakistan or go to somalia or go to yemen? and why does afghanistan matter besides terrorism? it matters because of its neighbor pakistan. again, there's a growing debate.

say we do okay in afghanistan. will that really matter for pakistan? it's pakistan that already has the terrorist networks. it's pakistan that has all the nuclear weapons. i believe there's actually now a growing debate within the administration -- and you're going to see it beyond the administration -- about not simply how much we should do there, but really is it really worth it? >> from 2003 to 2008, for the most part, afghanistan was the good war. it's the war we sort of pushed to the side while president bush wads fighting iraq. now we've got iraq exploding and afghanistan exploding. eem not going to even ask whether we can -- we can't fight two hot wars for years, can we? >> the short answer is no. the president's got a real tiger by the tail. his duty is to get all the forces out of iraq over the next couple of years. it's clear to me that's not an option. if you're barack obama, the last thing you want to do is wake up every morning and decide this

afghanistan debate in addition to whatever we're going to do about iran's nuclear program, you don't want to have the unraveling of iraq in your in box. it's quite possible he's going to have to find a way to park 20,000, 40,000, 50,000 americans in iraq for quite a while. that also limit what the united states wants to do in afghanistan. >> just reading this wire that crossed. the chief of israel's military said on monday he would not rule out a military strike on iran's nuclear facilities, saying all options were open in self-defense. israel has the right to defend itself against all options that are on the table. >> that brings up another point. a man named brzezinski made the blogs this past weekend because he said the united states should not allow israel to fly across iraqi air space without our permission first. that seems to me to be a very basic statement of fact. whether -- forget what they're

doing it for. if one nation is going to attack another nation, they need our permission before they fly over iraqi air space, do they not? >> yes, they do. there's a bigger question here. the united states has to decide at some point whether we want the israelis or ourselves to act militarily to slow down the i n irany nuclear program. if we decide it's a good idea, we ought to do it ourselves. if we decide it's a bad idea, we ought not to simply do it ourselves. we ought to discourage the israelis from doing it. so the real question is does the united states believe it is both desirable and necessary to attack iran to slow down its nuclear program? we're not at that point yet. the iranis aren't at that threshold. >> let's say they cross the red line. we are fighting a hot war in iraq. we are fighting a hot war in afghanistan. i hate to break the news to people at the weekly standard,

but we can't open a third hot war, certainly not against iran. we don't have the resources. >> well, it will probably be a different set of resources we largely use in iran, at least initially. it will be a much more air-based sort of effort. but that is the argument being put forth quietly by the guys in uniform. simply this would be a bridge too far. >> does anyone in the military think we can simultaneously be engaging in wars in iraq, afghanistan, and iran? >> not at the current or desired levels, no. that's simply too much. the current level of military men. plus we need to have a reserve. we need to have a reserve for what can happen in europe and the balkans. we need to think about north korea. plus an iranian contingent could spread. if the united states or israel attack iran, we shouldn't think it stops there. they're going to react in places like iran, afghanistan. >> i'm just going to say given the conversations online about

my father's comments, the one thing we were talking on the phone last night, he doesn't want us to have any ambiguity when it comes to the situation. and people freak out and say he doesn't like israel. so weird. >> what is the impact if the united states allows israelis to fly across air space which we control to attack, to invade iran? >> you will see iran retaliate to stop the flow of oil. you'll see oil at $200 a barrel at least. you will see more terrorist attacks and attacks on u.s. forces in afghanistan and iraq. you might see a warsening of the u.s. relationship with iraq because iraqi nationalism will kick it. >> therefore, it would have to be thwarted. it would have to be stopped. >> you just tell them what to do. >> the united states has told israel not to do something. when iraqis attacked israel at the beginning of the gulf war in 191, the israelis wanted to respond militarily to the

israeli missile attacks. george w. bush got on the phone. i was on the room. and he said don't do it. this is not in the interest of israel or the united states. barack obama may have to make the decision down the road. one of the problems with barack obama is his standing in israel is low. his ability to have that kind of a difficult conversation with netanyahu is not obvious. >> do you see any scenario where israel would send jets across u.s.-controlled air space without our permission? >> yes. if the israelis believe they have intelligence that iran -- >> do you think they would do it? >> i think it's possible if they truly believe this is an existential threat to the state of israel, the jewish state. >> if you're advising the president of the united states, any president of the united states, what do you tell that president to do when you just got word that israel is sending jets across u.s.-controlled air

space to launch an attack against iran? do you tell the generals on the ground to scramble the jets and intercept them? >> the united states is not going to shoot down israeli jets. >> no, but can you intercept them as usually happens, and escort these jets to bases? >> let's not have that opportunity. i would think the real conversation has to happen before. you do not want to get to that point. that is a nightmare for the united states and israel. >> the united states will never shoot down israeli jets. >> we're not going to shoot down israeli jets. we have got to stop them. the united states and israel need to be on the same page here. if it gets to that point, joe, that is a strategic nightmare for the united states. >> how much do we pay israel in foreign aid? >> a couple of billion dollars a year in economic and military aid. >> shouldn't the president send a message -- again, look at my voting record. i'm the biggest supporter of israel. i've had people say they should give you a key to tel aviv, you're such a pro-israeli

congressman. but if i'm president of the united states and i catch wind of the fact that israel may use u.s.-controlled air space to get us into a third hot war, i would say, you know, you can't do that. if you do do that, don't expect $3.1 billion now. >> i don't believe the united states ever threatens its fundamental support for the state of israel. it would be wrong morally. it would be wrong strategically. this is why the united states and israel have to have a real strategic conversation about what to do about this iranian threat, what to do to head it off, and to look at the options. there are options such as managing a nuclear rivalry. what's the less bad force? is it living with it and trying to deter it, or is it attacking it? that's the kind of conversation the israelis and the united states need to have. you do not want to get into the scenarios you're talking about. >> nobody does. >> we need to continue this conversation. >> we have tom friedman and also frank rich. we're going to find out a place in the show to do must read op eds. that was a good conversation.

richard haass, thank you very much. we appreciate it. coming up next, the new york giants steal the spotlight from the cowboys while their stadium sets a new nfl record. sports is next. plus, willie has news you can't use. you were right. these healthy choice fresh mixer thingys, they taste fresh... say it again! they taste fresh. wait. what are you doing? got it. you're secretly taping me? cook it fresh, strain it fresh, mix it fresh, healthy choice fresh mixers, look for it in the soup or pasta aisle.

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president obama was heckled yesterday again. did you see this? he was heckled again yesterday, this time at a rally for health care reform. it's too bad. i think the hecklers really went

too far. take a look. >> by the time she had her insurance reinstated. >> yeah. take him away. boo! >> what's going on, guys? >> boo! >> could it possibly be good? >> could it possibly be worse? >> that's a tough crowd, barnacle and buchanan, the muppets. time for sports with nbc's fred roggin. last night if you went to bed, you missed a great game right here on nbc. giants and cowboys cristening the new stadium. fred has highlights. good morning. it was the grand opening dallas had been waiting for, but the giants spoiled the party. first game at the $1.2 billion cowboys stadium. nfl record 105,000 fans in attendance. pick it up in the final minute. cowboys coming back. felix jones in for the touchdown, and dallas grabbed a 31-30 lead. join giants save their house warming

present for the last. with one second on the clock, giants spoil the home opener 33-31. jets against the patriots. jets packed it up. mark sanchez to dustin keller for the game's only touchdown. jets won 1-9. jay cutler to johnny knox. tied the game at 14. final seconds. robbie gould from 44 yards out and good. bears came back to beat pittsburgh 17-14. bengals and packers. carson palmer to chad ocho cinco. not all the fans happy about the lambeau leap. bengals beat the packers 27-24. bradley told reporters, you understand why they haven't won here in 100 years. i wouldn't be surprised if he's gone within 100 days.

on the diamond in seattle, yanks this a chance to clinch a playoff spot, but the mariners weren't having it. the yankee party will have to wait another day. they lost 7-1. red sox visiting baltimore in the fourth. jason bay, a mammoth home run. boston won 9-3. they've got an eight-game lead in the wild card. indianapolis, twins and tigers, a battle l atop the a.l. central. ryan rayburn went deep for a solo blast. tigers won 8-2. they lead minnesota by three with just 13 to play. nascar in new hampshire. trouble in the pits. right into david reagan. just a little love tap. plenty of love from mark martin. don't say senior citizens can't drive for mark martin will prove you wrong. you guys have a great monday. >> thanks so much, fred. the red sox have the wild card locked up. breathing down the yankees' neck a little bit. four games in the loss column. coming up next, i hate to show

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please tell me it's time. show me my willie. >> i don't do it on a wide shot.

>> come on. bring him in. >> i'll wait. i don't do it on a wide shot. >> hi. >> time for the "news you can't use." >> do it wide. >> what does that mean? when i was in that hall on a historic evening in las vegas in april judging miss usa. >> you still haven't gotten over that, have you? >> i felt something. i don't want to say it was divine. >> like in 1787. >> it was. there was something more, something shining down from upon us. now we have confirmation. carrie prejean, the miss california who had her title stripped told the values voters summit. >> what was that? >> she talked to people over the week enat the values voters summit. >> that's the summit that tony perkins and the family research council puts together. they invited her. >> they invited her. >> they asked her to come in and interview people?

>> she had the podium. she was one of the big speakers at the event. she informed the audience that she was chosen by god to give that answer at the miss usa pageant. listen to what she said. >> i am so proud of the stance that i took. i am so proud of the answer that i gave. and god chose me for that moment. he chose me for that moment because he knew that i would not only be the one to stick up for him and for the truth but also he knew that i am strong enough to get through all of the junk that i have been through. >> she has been persecuted, hasn't she? >> wow. >> she went on to say, california may have taken her crown, but the lord has a bigger crown in heaven waiting for her. >> oh, lordy. some people really, i like the world they live in. it's very fantasy like. >> mike huckabee won the straw poll there for 2012, just so you know. >> wow.

>> here's another tidbit. kate from jon and kate. she's getting a talk show. she and paula dean, the legendary southern lifestyle person. apparently, they're doing a show together, paula dean and kate. >> i'll have to ask her about that tomorrow. >> top of the hour, tom delay on "dancing with the stars" tonight. >> who could miss it? joe scarborough with you, along with mike barnicle and the great willie geist, known also, of course, from the host of "way too early." and also with us, harold ford jr., professor emeritus at vanderbilt. >> such a depressing introduction after listening to the one that you gave willie, but i embrace it. >> we have an awful lot to talk about, front page of "the new york times." the president being interviewed by a lot of people. "the wall street journal" couldn't believe we could be going to 10,000 here. and also, i think the big news,

of course talking about mcchrystal saying give me more troops or we are going to lose in afghanistan. and, of course, i don't know about you, willie geist, but if you spend three hours on a saturday watching tim tebow play, your life will be forever changed. that was the light over my head this weekend. seriously, bloomquist and gary danielson, it is just teen anal boy love. >> they're not the first. every announcer has a weird tim tebow thing. >> okay. let's go to news stuff. it is time for a look at the day's top stories. according to this morning's "washington post," the top u.s. commander in afghanistan says the battle in insurgents will likely result in failure unless more forces are added to the fight. without a new strategy, general stanley mcchrystal suggests the mission should not be resourced,

according to a copy of the report, mcchrystal writes this. "failure to gain the initiatives and reverse insurgent momentum in the near term, while afghan security capacity mature, risks an outcome where defeating the insurgency is no longer possible." president obama tells nbc's david gregory he is still weighing his options on this. >> i don't have a deadline for withdrawal, but i'm certainly not somebody who believes in indefinite occupations of other countries. i'm not interested in just being in afghanistan for the sake of being in afghanistan or saving face or in some way, you know, sending a message that america is here for the duration. i think it's important that we match strategy to resources. what i'm not also going to do, though, is put the resource question before the strategy question. until i'm satisfied that we've got the right strategy, i'm not going to be sending some young man or woman over there beyond what we already have.

>> harold ford, if a general tells the commander in chief give me troops or we lose the war, what does the president do? >> i think he does what he says. clarify the mission. we'll provide the resources for it. he's in the process of clarifying it. i think it will be, to your point, hard not to provide general mcchrystal, who is president obama's general, with the resources that he's asking for. >> can our troops stand more retagss? do we have the troops? >> no, we don't -- we have the troops. we don't have enough. we just don't. we've stretched the army, thenae so thin we don't have them. the dilemma here, clearly this front page "washington post" story by bob woodward was not leaked by the white house. this was leaked by the military. this was leaked by general mcchrystal's people as a prong to force the president towards making that decision quickly rather than slowly. >> trying to force the president's hand, mika. this comes when we get more word of terrorism coming out of pakistan. >> exactly.

>> we have a terrorism attack, like you suggested at the beginning of the show? >> a terrorism tax? >> the only way you can create more troops is if you tax to create more troops. do you have to create some kind of military terrorism tax to create the funds to do that? >> we don't have the money. we are already so far in debt. >> i was asking retorically. >> that's what i was saying. for these people who want to fight everybody at once, invade iran, continue the fight in afghanistan, continue the fight in iraq indefinitely, okay, fine. you tell me where we're going to get the troops because we don't have enough troops right now. >> in "the new york times" this morning, he says a dollar tax on diesel fuel. three men are due in court today charged with making false statements in connection with an apparent terror plot aimed at

new york city. at the center of the probe is a 24-year-old colorado man originally from afghanistan. police say a search of his rental car uncovered nine panls of handwritten notes, including information on how to build and handle bombs. court papers show the man admitted to attending an al qaeda training camp in pakistan just last year. a senior israeli official says the country has not given up the option of a military response to iran's nuclear program. it comes after russia's president said he was given ainsurances by the jewish state that an attack would not happen. israel has long said it would not tolerate a nuclear-armed iran. >> i repeat what i said before, i do not believe the israelis would fly over u.s.-controlled air space without our permission to launch an attack on a third country. i do not believe it. and i'll also say the united states of america in 2009, with

record deficits and record debts, can fight hot wars in afghanistan, iraq, and iran. we are carrying the load for the most part by ourselves in these countries. we just -- we don't have the resources. we don't have the troops. >> i hope you're right that they wouldn't do that. i guess we'll find out. as congress continues debating a health care overhaul, president obama is defending part of the proposal that would fine people for not buying health insurance. >> under this mandate, the government is forcing people to spend money, fining you if you don't. how is that not a tax? >> hold on a second, george. you can't just make up that language and decide it's called a tax increase. >> tax, usually a charge of money imposed by persons or property for public purposes. >> george, the fact that you looked up merriam's dictionary, the definition of tax increase, tells me you're stretching now. >> your critics say it's a tax increase.

>> my critics say everything is a tax increase. they say i'm taking over every sector of the economy. you know that. >> when he says you can't make up things about taxes. is that the point? >> one of my hobbies is reading bills, the baucus bill. >> so you read the baucus bill? >> i was reading that watching the sunset, sipping on a pimm's cup. >> page 29 of the baucus bill, it describes what the president is referring to, george stephanopoulos out of something out of merriam webster's dictionary, page 29 of the baucus bill describes it as an ax sis tax. >> so not only does the dictionary talk about it, the bill talks about it. >> in f you don't have health insurance -- >> you pay a fee. >> no, it's actually called a tax in the bill. >> he said, if you get hit by a bus and you're taken to this emergency room, you are treated.

you're treated for free. his belief is, if that is the case, if that is the equation of formula, then you should be willing to pay something along the way. whether you call it -- he debated tax, free, whatever the case. but it's guaranteed health care if something bad happens to you and they take you to the emergency room. >> what about people who can't pay that? >> that's always been the case. >> i understand. the president is playing with the rhetoric here. i would agree. you can call it a tax. you can call it a fee. you can call it insurance. >> the bill calls it a tax. >> but you also have the right to go to a hospital if you face a health hardship or you face an emergency. >> whether it's a tax or not. >> as you can tell, i'm trying to get around it. >> that's why i love you. >> does anyone around america believe this health care bill will pass at no cost to the taxpayers, to middle class taxpayers, at no cost? >> i think short term no. but long term i think -- we can't on this show sit and say

that cbo says it's going to raise deficit spending, and when the cbo says this is deficit neutral, stand back and say we don't believe that. we can have one or the other. the cbo has said baucus is deficit neutral. >> exactly. but on the baucus bill, what we're talking about is a 35% tax increase, a sur tax. >> on those cadillac plans. >> and then this type of tax on page 29, as mike allen of politico brought up. david paterson is going to run for president -- i mean, run for governor. >> you're making news. >> and the president says no. but, mike, what -- we talked about these taxes. americans are already hammered right now because you have hospitals that pay tens of billions of dollars each year because indigents need care. they need to be treated, and

hospitals are forced by law to treat them. they cannot deny coverage to anybody else. that money is being absorbeded by insurance companies and ends up ultimately being insured by states, by localities. >> and by premium increases on us. >> and by premium increases on us. so we're paying for that anyway, aren't we? >> we absolutely are paying for it. just go into any hospital emergency room on any night of the week, especially thursdays, fridays, and saturdays, and you see people who are visiting their primary care physician. and the costs are enormous. so any component of this bill that doesn't deal with that fact of life is no deal at all. >> to barnacle's point, the president and the white house should say this is going to cause middle class families to probably pay a little bit more, but what it will do is reduce the long term -- the business round table instead of the next ten years, health care premiums will rise by 166%. so if they believe that,

businesses believe that, if you can reduce that number, then, in fact, you may be playing with the numbers a bit, reducing it overall. >> so the businesses, unlike 1993, need health care reform. they are getting killed by the cost of health care. let's move on really quickly because we're running out of time. we're going to get to tom friedman in a block or two. i know you love him because it says real men like gas tax. you're going to turn and look at me. we'll see what i say. here's -- she's going to suggest i'm not a real man. chris wallace was very angry, very angry the president did not come to fox news for an interview. let's see what he says. >> i think that "fox news sunday" is a truly fair and balanced show. >> you're p an ideological show at all. >> it's like they refuse to take yes for an answer. there's a kind of childishness. these guys, everything is personal. >> everything. >> they are the biggest bunch of cry babies i have dealt with in my 30 years in washington. >> and i can't --

>> they constantly are on the phone or e-mailing me complaining. well, you had this guest, or you did this thing. i mean, they are working the umps all the time. i think it works with the others. it doesn't work with me. >> so, willie, he uses childishness and says the biggest bunch of babies in 30 years. those are tough words. calling them babies. >> i think the white house is just a little concerned sometimes. >> i think the white house will tell you that -- >> or maybe they should be not so sensitive. what do you think? >> the white house would tell you that fox is behind the opposition movement they saw flooding through the streets last weekend in washington, the 9/12 movement we're calling it. >> do they have proof of that? >> something popped up on the web. the 9/12 deal, this is a fox associate producer apparently firing up the crowd to get pumped before a reporter's live shot on glenn beck's show, during the live shot. just so you know, you don't do that in tv. if you're a producer, you shoot what's there.

>> you don't make the news as opposed to covering it. >> they do it before the conan show, have somebody pump up the audience. >> this isn't oprah or conan. this is a news event, and she's trying to make the crowd riled up in order to make the live shot better. it's just a little bit not what you're supposed to do. >> i've never seen that video before. >> that's just upsetting. >> i do have to say, though, that chris wallace shouldn't be so shocked and stunned. i mean, if i were a republican, it would be -- a republican president, there would be some outlets i'd avoid. there would be some reporters i'd avoid. >> i'd avoid that network, i would. >> what network? >> the one with the producer doing that and all the other stuff they do. >> i think they'd avoid you as well. >> one thing you would say, though -- >> i like roger. >> we do love roger, don't we?

can we talk about roger really quickly? >> chris wallace is not glenn beck. i think we would agree he's a fair and good interviewer. his argument is come to me. don't go to glenn beck or bill reilly. come to me. >> can we talk about roger rail? he has built this -- it's like i liken it on radio to the big red machine in the 1970s. he's built this incredible team. you plug people in, they become stars. so glenn beck's walking around now feeling all puffed up. everybody forgets that before roger had glenn, he was withering over at headline news. he goes over, you plug him into this unbelievable -- >> cover of "time" magazine. >> this machine that roger els himself as createded with the help of bill o'reilly at 8:00 sort of -- he really exploded it. >> what he does, he sets his hair on fire. >> glenn beck, not bill

o'reilly. >> glenn beck sets his hair on fire, and suddenly he's on the cover of "time" magazine. roger has built just a machine over there. >> because he's a genius as well as a pretty good guy. let me ask you, joe. you're advising president barack obama. where do you send him first? >> "meet the press." >> other than "meet the press." i sent him on to fox news. >> do you really? >> i put him right on there. get right in there. >> absolutely. >> look him right in the eye. sit down and look him right in the eye. >> if you've got the facts on your side. here's his problem. he can't explain this bill. he couldn't even explain it to george stephanopoulos, a guy that worked with democratic presidents. he stumbled when he's talking to a democrat. >> one of the great conundrums of the whole health care thing is this most articulate of politicians, this most articulate of candidates, most articulate president can't explain health care. >> you know why? >> i think you're absolutely

right. >> because he didn't draw up the bill. he's talking about other people's bills. >> we've got to go. let's talk to some people about this. coming up next, more on obama's media blitz. david gregory sat down with the president this weekend. also, why the white house is sending a strong message to new york governor david paterson. really strong message. plus this morning headlines out of the white house with savannah guthrie. and can the max baucus health care plan survive in the senate? >> i think it can. >> we'll bring in democratic senator dick durbin and republican senator john barrasso. first let's get a check on the weather with bill karins. we're still monitoring flash flooding in it and around atlanta, georgia. we'll get airport delays probably in this morning too. count on that. also flash flooding down there in joe's beloved alabama. forecast today, showers and storms the deep south. also around kansas city. northeast is great, and so is the west coast. still feeling like summer on the

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and unfortunately, we've got, as i said before, a 24-hour news cycle where what gets you on the news is conversation. what gets you on the news is the extreme statements. the easiest way to get 15 minutes on the news or your 15 minutes of fame is to be rude. >> life in the white house now. nbc news white house correspondent savannah guthrie, and in washington, moderator of "meet the press" david gregory. the president returning to that 24-hour news cycle. he seems obsessed with it, doesn't he? >> he's quite focused on it because i think at this point he wants to try to prevail over it by, you know, exposing himself to it. i think this is what this media blitz was about was grabbing a hold of the message, which he was effectively able to do, and trying to drive a message

particularly on health care and also put down some of this discussion about race. and i think he feels he's got an opportunity to try to quiet that 24-hour cycle by jumping right in it and getting the most attention in it. >> david, any surprises for you in the interview? >> i think a couple of things. obviously, the way he decided to approach the jimmy carter issue and try to cool off the debate was, i think, newsworthy. i also think on afghanistan he made a couple of significant statements about being skeptical about additional troops. and also saying he is not a fan of indefinite occupations, that he's not a supporter of that. as i pointed out to him, the soviet union pulled out of afghanistan after ten years. we're now in the eighth year. so he's got some very difficult choices now about not only troops but what america's fighting for and what the strategy should be. and a brewing, i think, rebellion within his party on these questions. >> savannah, it seems to me that every time the white house tries to focus on health care, another

distraction comes up. wednesday it was joe wilson. a couple of days later, it was jimmy carter. the president does five interviews on health care reform. that night somebody at the pentagon probably leaks to "the washington post" that mcchrystal says give me more troops or we're going to lose the war in afghanistan. what's the focus? what is the focus for the white house today? health care? are they going to have to talk about afghanistan all day? >> reporter: i think they will end up talking about it. in terms of the actual schedule, he's not talking about health care either. he's going to up to troy, new york, upstate new york, before he heads to the u.n. general assembly in new york city, where he'll talk about education, the changes he wants to make to the economic sector. that's the change of the day. then he'll do the letterman show in new york where the conversation presumably will be about health care. you're absolutely right. to the extent they booked the interviews and tried to roadblock the sunday morning coverage, yes, he got his

message out in terms of health care and was certainly singing from the same sheet of music for all those interviews, but he was asked a variety of questions on issues he didn't care to talk about. certainly expected, but obviously a lot of questions about the race issue, about afghanistan. look, the white house is doing what it's supposed to do, trying to control the media, but it doesn't always work out that way. >> we've talked about overexposure, david gregory. i guess my question is how many times can he do this? pick up the phone and say, i want to be on your sunday show. i want to make a speech to the nation at 8:00 in primetime. how -- at what point does this stop working, or do we just open the door every time the president wants to get in front of the message? because this seems to be a president who wants to stay in front of it and use any possibility of air time to make it happen? >> well, let me be clear about a couple of things. one, i don't want to sound disenjenius because i want to interview the president all the time.

when he wants to answer questions, i will be there asking tough questions because i think it's an incredibly important the president do that. i don't want to send a mixed message. i think that's our position as a news organization. asking for primetime is a slightly different issue. the president has made a decision and those around him that he is the best messenger for this administration. he is the go-to guy. he's going to keep going there as long as it works for him, as long as he can try to control the debate. now, there are those who criticize him and say, look, you're going to lose focus. you're going to lose message focus if you don't kind of elevate your office to a point where, if you speak, it's got to really, really matter. he's also in a historic time where he's facing so many, many challenges at once, and he has the ability to convey the message, they feel like they'll run this risk and keep driving the message through. again, i think it's a good thing if we have an opportunity to question a president more often than not.

>> david, you noi, you covered the white house, and then maybe savannah jump in after. does the white house -- the staff at the white house, do they worry at all about the fact that the president's constant presence on television among the base of people who are his strongest supporters, that his constant appearance about the constant crises might be raising the question among him more and more so. gee, i thought his presidency was going to be different. do they worry about that? >> well, different than that in terms of how acrimonious the atmosphere is? >> yeah. >> well, i think that there was perhaps a little bit more confidence that he was going to be able to change the tone and the way that george bush had tried to do. i think within the white house there's a little bit of a surprise, shock, frustration, and anger about the current landscape of the media and the way the message gets driven.

i think your earlier discussion about fox is interesting. there are so many things that come up in this debate on health care, for instance, i think the president and others thought this is sort of laughable. nobody is going to pay attention to this. and then they're surpriseded when it becomes a bigger issue. i don't think they've quite figured out how to jump into that fray and try to win that pr war on all kinds of different levels. >> hey, savannah, real quickly, the white house chose not to do fox, correct? >> reporter: oh, absolutely. and interestingly -- go ahead. i'm sorry. >> i just wonder what the answer to the question, to mike barnicle's point, why not go in there and engageengage? he's good at doing that. >> reporter: it's a legitimate question. some see that as punishment, per se, because fox, the network, did not carry the president's last primetime news conference nor the joint address to congress. others say, look, what's the harm to go in there and do the sunday news show? why get down there and be petty? if you think fox is not giving you a fair shake, if you really

think the president is the most effective messenger, then get him out there. look, this is a president who has relished the opportunity in days past to take on the tough questions, so why wouldn't he go in there? in some ways it's only amplified and made fox's position somehow being the agrieved party here stronger and opens up a whole new issue. once again, we're talking about the process, talking about which interviews he chose to do and didn't choose to do rather than the essence of the interview. >> let me just tell you, though, here. if i'm advising a republican president and there's a network that has played a big role in organizing the protest against me the week before and this network never runs my presidential addresses or rarely runs them, i would say, you cannot go to that network because you're sending a bad message to the other networks. >> okay. >> i'm just saying that is -- >> i like the idea of getting in there and engaging. i'm sorry.

>> that's fine. i'm just saying you always send messages when you're in the white house. >> it makes sense. david gregory. >> this has nothing to do with fox or cnn or msnbc. i'm just saying, as a general proposition, especially a week after an organized protest that your host had a big role in, i just don't see how you turn around -- >> that's why i would go in there. >> and reward them. >> it's not a reward. i would say, let's sit down and talk about this. you guys have it backwards, and let me set you straight. that's what i would do. david gregory and savannah guthrie, thank you so much. coming up next, republican senator of wyoming, senator john barrasso is also a medical doctor. why he's against the latest health care proposals. pure cane sugar and the stevia plant.

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there's been no bipartisan conversation on capitol hill about health care. at some point, when these big government plans fail -- and they will -- the congress will not pass this. it's really time for the president to hit the reset button. just stop all of this, and let's sit down and start over in a bipartisan way to build a plan that americans will support. >> that's quite a tan john has

on that. with us in the house, republican senator from wyoming, doctor and senator john barrasso. >> i think he'll be fine. >> are you worried about melanomas? you might want to talk to him about that. >> is the senator right, this will not pass? >> i think there's a huge roadblock ahead. the president couldn't even explain it to george stephanopoulos. the president is popular, but his plan is not. people don't understand it. it's complicate. >> it's not his plan. i wonder if the president understands what's in there. there's so many different bills. >> in his speech, he kept saying, my plan, my plan. let me see your plan, mr. president. the guidelines he sets out don't apply to the house bill, don't apply to the baucus bill, don't apply to what came through the health committee. there are 640 amendments planned tomorrow in the finance committee. >> is there a republican plan that comes through the baucus bill that you could support? >> no.

he's talking about financing this through the states. he's talking about raising medicaid, which is the program that even people who have it can't see a doctor. it's putting more people into a sinking ship. it's a wrong way to go. to say they're going to save hundreds of billions of dollars on medicare, the program for our seniors. we're now eight months and a day into this administration. the president has not appointeded somebody to be in charge of medicare or even a deputy. the last person left when george w. bush left office. eight months and there's nobody in charge of medicare, a program that spends $1 trillion a year and covers 100 million people with medicare and medicaid. nobody is in charge. that's not a sustainable program. >> do you agree with being able to stop and restart this whole process? by the way, is that politically realistic? or is this a way to get a roadblock in so it doesn't happen? >> i think you ought to look for things that work, which is let people buy insurance across state lines, deal with the lawsuit abuse. >> but that will take time

politically, and you know it will not happen. >> but, mika, none of these bills start taking care of health care is 2013. what they want to do starting today is collect the taxes. they're going to collect taxes for ten years and only give services for six. that's the gimmick they're using to do this budgetary thing where they can pay for it in ten years. >> senator, you're a doctor. 25 years as an orthopedic surgeon? >> we have an internist this year in our country. there are too few interns. my question is there anything in this bill that provides for more interns and provides for how they get paid? >> internists, family physicians, pediatricians, all the primary care physicians. nurse practitioners, physicians assistants. there's a disproportionate way for how physicians are paid for in the united states. we pay more in the united states for doing things. >> does the baucus bill address that? >> it adds more money to the system, but i don't think it reforms health care. >> i hear you correct, senator.

it's good to see you. people should be able to purchase health care across state lines. does the co-op idea not achieve that, that's contained in the bennett or even the baucus bill? >> i'm not sure it does it easily. $6 billion to set up a co-op? why do we need to spent that money? let people buy insurance across state lines. >> will it allow people to buy insurance across state lines? i happen to agree with you. buy across state lines, tort reform. what else do republicans need in the bill for democrats? is i think it's unrealistic we're going to start over at this point. when the president may be forced to, but probably unrealistic. what are the three things republicans need, the two or three things, democrats that you can live with, that can pass. >> the big thing is buy insurance across state lines, deal with the lawsuit abuse. the whole thing ought to be aimed at getting the costs under control. people right now understand that it's going to cost them more if you go poll the american people. >> what are the democratic ideas you can live with? >> i believe that people ought

to be able to keep their insurance when they change jobs because our kids are going to change jobs six times. i think the preexisting conditions, you shouldn't be excluded because of that. if somebody has insurance, they shouldn't be kicked out when they hit a maximum. >> senator barrasso, thank you very much. >> coming up next, your exercise mate dick durbin. we're in the gym every morning. >> guys sweating it out, watching what show? >> "morning joe." >> we like that. also, former prime minister, british prime minister tony blair will be here on the set. you're watching "morning joe" brewed by starbucks. i'm walgreens ceo and i'm also a pharmacist.

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now, in this mandate, the government is forcing people to

spend money, fines you if you don't. how is that not a tax? >> hold on a second, george. you can't just make up that language and decide that's called a tax increase. >> tax, a charge used to fine or imposed by authority on persons or property for public purposes. >> george, the fact that you looked up merriam's dictionary, the definition of tax increase, indicates to me you're stretching a bit right now. >> your critics say it's a tax increase. >> my critics say everything is a tax increase mp my critics say i'm taking over every sector of the economy. you know that. >> i brought along a copy of the baucus bill. willie, i can tell you who's right, george stephanopoulos or president obama. >> that's excellent. >> page 29 of the chairman's mark, sense one, the consequence for not maintaining insurance would be an excise tax. >> whoa. >> he used the "t" word. >> the word tax is actually in the bill. is that what you're telling us? >> do you think that will be big on talk radio today? >> democratic senator from

illinois and majority whip senator dick durbin. taxes, fees and excise, and this, that, and the other in a little bit. you're the majority whip. how close are you to 60 votes? >> can you tell me where massachusetts is going to go? >> let's say you have a massachusetts senator in. >> it's helpful. but understand a lot of us have been not only on the sidelines but out of the stadium. the gang of six, now the finance committee. and now it comes to the whole caucus, 59 senators. i'd say 44 have not been personally engaged yet in this, kind of standing back. now we're going to need to engage. >> and even the president has not been personally engaged. >> he's -- >> when i say that, i mean in the actual details of the bill. >> that's intentional because it's a fine line between meddling and helping. he's tried to be there to smooth out the wrinkles in the process but not to mandate what has to be in the bill or should be in the bill. >> you're the whip. is it possible to get 60 democratic senators if you don't have a public option, something

called the public option? >> if there's a variation on the theme perhaps. >> like a co-op. >> you know, senator snowe started with the trigger, something like that. some feel intensely about. but i'll tell you there's also a commitment to get the process moving. get the bill through the finance committee, through the senate. we know there are several stages waiting. the president, when i went to visit the white house a while ago, pointed to the conference room, the roosevelt room, and said i'm going to get the conference committee members in there, republicans and democrats, and we're going to get a bill. >> as you brought up before the break, maine went for president obama by 20 percentage points. isn't there a possibility that a bill could be drawn up that can get both olympia snowe and susan collins? >> we don't presume a thing. senator snowe has been very helpful in this process so far, and senator collins has an open mind on the idea of health care reform. whether we can bring her to the plate where she'll support the bill. >> but it's possible? >> it's possible.

>> any more republicans at all? >> i think so. you want me to name names. >> senator grassley, judging by what they said back in their district, are going to be there. >> i don't think so. i think chuck grassley at his town meeting in iowa made it clear. obama care and so forth. >> let's talk about something that i think you and i probably agree on except we want to go there in different ways. you support a public option. i do not. but the idea that an insurance company can control 75, 80, 85% of business in state by state, that's not free enterprise. that's not capitalism. why can't people buy insurance policies across state lines? >> because in each state they establish basic standards for health insurance. there are some states that don't have very good standards and others that have good standards. for example, does maternity care cover the infant from the moment of birth? in some states no, in some

states yes. you can buy a policy called health insurance that really won't be there when you need it. this idea of buying across state lines, you may buy something that is worthless. we've got to be careful that we don't dilute this to the point where we don't have health care. >> do you support the ability to buy policies across state lines? >> let's say we establish a national standard for health insurance. you've got to meet this minimum standard. buying across state lines, from my point of view, it's not a problem. but you've got to meet the standard. >> again, i'm a states rights guy. harold ford and i big fans of the tenth amendment. at the same time, you've got the interstate commerce clause. if health care is not something, mike, that is a national issue, i don't know what is. >> one company in alabama and several other states -- but alabama is typical of these states -- 90% of the health care providers provisions one company. my question to you is, if this bill passions or a bill passes,

what happens to, say, my health care plan when my company that provides me with my health care plan is charged more for the health care plan? do they start trimming? >> they'll write fewer policies at that level or higher. they think it will create a ceiling in terms of what they're going to offer. let me tell you, i understand the concern here. gets right down to it. there are a lot of small fwrups where some of these plans are much more expensive for the same benefits i have because i go through the federal employees benefit program. when it gets down to it on the finance committee this week, i think affordability and this question are really going to drive a lot of votes on the democratic side. they want to bring down the cost of this so the average family says at the end this is worth it. i get health insurance reform, and i don't have to pay through the nose for it. >> harold ford? >> tort reform. senator, your colleague mentioned the four things he thought need to be in the bill. buying across state lines, tort reform, preexisting conditions, and allowing people to change jobs to keep insurance.

i'm for the public option. but number four, keeping insurance when you change jobs, tort reform. can democrats come around to tort reform? >> i think the 30 states, maybe 40 already have some form of tort reform. we don't see any dramatic difference in health costs in the states yet. maybe there will be. malpractice premiums are lower in some of these states but not in all. i think we're going to go along with the president's approach to this, which is the demonstration projects to find a way to bring these costs down. harold, you know, this is traditionally a state issue. the states establish the standards. if we're going to have national standards for malpractice insurance, that's a big departure. it's not going to go through the finance committee. we need a separate bill, a separate hearing in the judiciary committee, and a lot of talk about whether it's the right thing to do. >> very quickly, you're one of seven senators who decided to keep funding for acorn. why? >> i think the three or four employees who were investigated should be terminated. i believe first trial and then the hanging. if we found three or four folks

in your control room on youtube dealing drugs, would we stop doing business as a whole? >> senator, as you know, because you watch this show, it's not three or four. it's usually eight or nine. >> did you see pete? i think he was smoking something. >> would you stop doing business with general electric? >> if so, then sell your stock right now because things are going on behind the scenes. mike barnicle, for instance. he does it on the set. all right. senator, thank you. thanks for being with us. good to see you. appreciate it. senator dick durbin. >> thank you so much. coming up, new allegations involving former senator and presidential candidate john edwards. the"the new york times" revealsw claims from his former aide. details next with nora o'donnell. now your card comes with a way to plan for what matters to you. introducing blueprint. blueprint is free and only for chase customers.

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edwards is facing rumors he is the father of an illegitimate child. and "the new york times" reports he may be ready to admit that he is. norah, where do we begin? >> good morning to you guys. we know john edwards admitted publicly that he had an affair with rielle hunter. but he said, quote, it's not possible that he is the father of the 14-month-old child. but now it may be about to change. i spoke with john edwards that could acknowledge something, but it's not now. >> so it's completely untrue and ridiculous. fast-forward one year to this

admission. >> in 2006, two years ago, i made a very serious mistake. i would welcome participating in a paternity test, and i know it's not possible the child could be mine. >> new details from a former aide to mr. edwards, andrew young, he wrote a book. edwards asked young to claim responsibility for fathering her child. life off the campaign trail has been no less turbulent for edwards. he admitted into being an investigation into whether campaign funds were paid to hunter illegally. and elizabeth edwards appeared

live on "today" in may. >> i guess there are all sorts of reasons, but the big reason is that, you know, i promised i was with him for better or worse, and this was worse than i ever expected. but i thought that meant something when i said it. >> reporter: john and elizabeth edwards were last seen together in august at the memorial for senator ted kennedy. paying their respect as so much attention is paid to their personal lives. >> i wish for it to never be an issue. if it becomes an issue, that's just another thing to deal with. that's not a further betrayal that i need to deal with. clearly this is a complicated family matter, and if you read the "new york times" yesterday there was details that

andrew young which i did not repeat in the piece. i think it's difficult to verify. i think the aide is looking to make money. there are lots of dirty little details. but there is a story and question about whether or not edwards used campaign funds to payoff hunter illegally. >> that's interesting that the times -- "the times" decided to run that. are you surprised by that? >> no. it's a story about a pathological liar in politics. coming up next, former prime minister.

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welcome back to "morning joe." willie, take us around the country. >> please do it with respect. >> los angeles, 5:00 in the morning. a good shot at the airport. las vegas, where peoples' dreams come true each and every day. what a wonderful place. and gateway to the west, st. louis. and then back east to washington, d.c. a beautiful day over the white house. and on home to new york city. a shot from the top of the rock looking south. by the way, it's 1:00 p.m. on the nose, london time. >> i am thinking we do the show

in london, instead of the west coast. wouldn't that be better? >> yeah, wake up at 11:00. >> when you go back to yale, can we go back with you? tony blair is joining us. >> we brought the prime minister to talk about the remarkable ending of the manchester city game yesterday. it's unbelievable. >> we'll get to that in a moment. >> and climate change. >> yeah, but first a time for a look at the top stories. the top u.s. commander in afghanistan tells the obama administration that without a boost enforces the battle against insurgency will end in failure. according to the copy of the assessment obtained by the washingt"washington post," this

they write. three men are due in court today charged with making false statements about a terror plot aimed at hurting the country. police say a search of this man's rental car uncovered nine pages of hand written notes including information on how to build bombs. and is a senior israeli official says the country has not given up the option of a military response to iran's nuclear program. it comes after russia's president was said he was given by the state that an attack would not happen. israel long said it would not

tolerate a nuclear iran. and tony blair will be at the u.n. today. the economic benefits of curbing global emissions. thank you for being with us, mr. prime minister of britain, we appreciate it. i read in the paper there is no real leader in elected office any more on the world stage that can address this issue as aggressively as you did when you were prime minister in great britain. is that the case? >> no, i think the leaders are determined to address it. the thing is it's a tough challenge. what our report does is it shows first of all in the short term there are simple things that we can do to try and mitigate the effects of rising emissions, which is due to reforestation, which is three times, for example, the problem of

aviation, and measures that are simple to do that we can take in the short term. and then in the longer term, if we are investing in energy of the future, the real jobs benefits from that investment. >> explain that. because we are having a debate here in the u.s., and i think it's happening across the world, does going green mean that we can push the reset button and create tens of thousands of new jobs and a knew economy? >> and some right away? >> yeah, energy efficiency. that is as much job creating as energy saving. but in the long term there will be new hundreds of jobs in the industry. things like electric vehicles. i suspect we will all be driving different types of cars in the future. if you look at solar power and take renewable energy.

in germany, in two years they created over 100,000 jobs in the sector. and in britain we have more in environmental technology. >> so cutting emissions worldwide can create 10 million jobs in 20/220. but how do you get sloeb you will support for that? how do you do it? >> it's simple. everybody has to be part of the deal. in other words, what you can't have is a situation where europe acts but america doesn't. if these countries come together and do a deal the economy effects are greater. if the country is acting on their own, that's when you get

the disavailable and the jobs problem. >> yeah, and united states, we contributed to the problem a lot. and you take a report like that, and you know what they are going to say, you guys already industrialized, and you are telling us that we can't? how do we get china and india to buy into the plan? >> well, the chinese are set to increase about twofold actually the amount they get from the renewable energy. they are setting bold targets for the future. as we develop the technology we are prepared to share it with you. ? you take, for instance, coal fire stations, and you catch the carbon and store it and then there forecoal fire is not such

an environmental problem. and the benefits of that will be immense. china, obviously a couple weeks ago, they are creating jobs through renewable energy. >> i remember ten years ago picking up a "washington post," ten years ago and seeing pictures. i credit the "washington post" -- don't pat the prime minister. it's like, breaking news! he already knew that. >> from breaking news to china news, let's get the prior ities. we will talk about sir alex in a minute. that's another story. ten years ago the "washington

post" took shots of four and five of china's largest cities. i was stunned by the smog. it was horrific. has it improved over the past decade or gotten worse? >> when you go to beijing, and what happened was for the olympics they got rid of the smog. when the people got rid of it, they said this is great, and they wanted it back. and the interesting thing about chinese cities now, all of them are ready to change the way they try to do business on making sure that their new factories have a high standard of efficien efficiency. and china and india, they are going to industrialize massively overt next two years. we can help them industrialize

in a cleaner way. >> mike? >> let me ask you a question, mr. prime minister. a practical question in politics. let's take two countries. leaders in the movement. how do you, as a public person, convince the elect toreut. how do you do that? >> the biggest problem, politically. on the other hand the leaders are saying the same thing, the which climate is changing and if we don't act we will have major problems. i have kids when they are my age i would like them to grow up in an environment where they look

back and say, you were warned with the consequences. if you are a political leader it would be great if you could deal with the issues. tomorrow it will be climate change. and then the next day it will be -- it really doesn't happen like that. >> is the obama heading in the right direction with afghanistan and do they have a clear direction? >> well, they need to review the strategy and are we doing the right thing in the right way. my view, and this is just my view, is that if this interview were taking place eight years ago and you were to say, well, should we just allow afghanistan to carry on with al qaeda training camps and the taliban in power, i think people would have been saying are you crazy,

these people just killed thousands of people on the streets of new york and we have to be there and sort it out. the reason why i think it's tough in afghanistan and is the reason why it was tough in iraq, and there is a virus of extremi extremism, and two potential strategies. one is to try and manage it and the other to eradicate it. i think you have no option but to try and eradicate it. >> general mcchrystal's report indicates that unless you get more troops in afghanistan that the mission could end in failure. as a practical question to you, could you define failure in afghanistan and success in afghanistan? >> failure is a situation where the taliban are allowed back in charge of the country. where you will then get exactly the same circumstances that president 9/11. and actually exported terrorism

in a broader way. the trouble with this problem is it's not just about afghanistan. it's about pakistan. you can point to over the past years, lebanon, palestine, and yemen. a lot of people disagree with me, but this is my view. we are in a long protracted struggle here. it may take us a generation to knock it out, but if we leave it, it will not stay dormant in my view. >> what you are saying, if eradication is the only way to go, you will move from one country to another to another, because you cannot eradicate it in iraq and elsewhere. they reconstitute it elsewhere. and then you have another problem and another problem and

another problem, right? >> well, the problem is when you go into the country like this, a long process of nation building that you have to engage in. the israel and palestine issue, it's a problem between the west and the muslim world. it's not just about military power. don't misunderstand me. in the end, suddenly from my perspective, and i spend a lot of time out in the east now. if this were a temporary problem in one country, you could see how you could deal with it fairly easy. and unfortunately it's not. it's a broad movement and has an itology that we may find crazy. they are prepared to kill instant civilians in pursuit of their reign.

>> prime minister blair had breaking news over the wires this morning. the chief of israel's military said monday he would not rule out a military strike on iran's nuclear facility saying all options were open in self-defense. this sparked a debate in the united states on what the president should do if they fly over u.s. controlled airspace. in iraq, what would the impact be in the middle east process, and what would the world view be of the united states if we allowed israel to use airspace in an attack against iran? >> one thing is clear, and for israel it will be intolerable for iran to have a nuclear weapon. i think we need to prevent that

from happening. we need to get as broad as possible in the lines of countries to say to iran it's unku acceptable, and we are prepared to offer you a partnership, a different way of working with you, but you have to give up the nuclear weapon. >> will europe go along with such a plan? europe's relationship with iran has been closer than america's since 1979. couldn't we bring europe along on that? >> my idea is they will go along with this provided it's clear as the obama administration is trying to do this, and they are trying to offer them a way out. we should be prepared to work with them. but they have to understand that if they acquire nuclear weapons capability, that's crossing the red line. >> willie, i know have you a question about cakerri prejean.

what is happening in europe? politically, it seems like conservatives are doing fairly well on the continent and some are suggesting they will do fairly well in the next elections in great britain. why? is there a conservative reaction, like we saw in '79, thatcher to what has been going on with the big spending and bailouts? >> to be honest, it's different to judge. different countries have different politics. >> is it part of a bigger trend from what you see? >> no, but i do think -- my own view is if you are a progressive party in politics, you win from the center or you don't win. >> amen. >> willie geist -- >> we will be going to break. i will have to ask you off the air. >> come back soon. we would love to come to london.

coming up next, andrea mitchell breaks down obama's sunday media blitz. (woman) dear cat.

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i have to have a plan that is good for middle class families. it's going to be deficit neutral. won't add a time to the deficit. the lion share of money to pay for this will come from money that is already in the system. >> the president is saying things people want to hear but the details don't add up. he can be on every news show until the end of time, if he doesn't get republicans and democrats in room and get off tv, we will never solve this problem. >> the host of msnbc's "andrea mitchell reports."

the president this weekend, mike allen is the guy that made the news this morning, huh? >> yeah, he took the trouble to read the bill and look at the chairman's mark, and excise tax right there. >> there was a debate between george stephanopoulos and the president and whether what was in the baucus bill. the president wants to focus on health care, and he did the roadblock of sunday shows. and then bob woodward talking about the afghanistan, and the troops needed that mccrystal put out privately and secretly. >> did the pentagon leak that? how did that get out?

the administration would not want that out there, and i guess the generals would? >> yeah, there has been a cut in industry over washington over decades trying to figure out where bob woodward would get that. but i would think the pentagon is a good location. >> with regard to afghanistan, based on the report this morning where stan mcchrystal where saying the mission is in danger of failure, what about the split within the administration, if there is one, about that issue? >> in fact what you have got is gates sort of caught in the middle between his prior recommendations and what could be his new recommendations. and the bottom line here is the president said during some of the interviews yesterday, we have to have a strategy before committing resources. what was last march when we cut

out the plan for afghanistan. and the fact that public opinion turned against afghanistan. that's what changed. >> one of the interesting things reported, general mccrystal gets into the fact that corruption, and the karzai government in afghanistan poses as much of a threat to our mission there as does the taliban. >> that is a huge problem. that is the new thinking, the big strategy that they came up with that we would do the civil side as well as the military side. now they may not have the luxury or the time to develop that. one has to understand the dilemma on them. it's not something of their creation. it's a shooting war. american men and women are there.

if you are the parents or the relatives, the spouse, partner of any of the kids over there, no luxury, you need to have a strategy. they can't wait to succeed in health care, and then worry about the foreign needs. >> you have iraq which is exploding again, and now you have iran. we just talked to tony blair. it sounded like tony blair said israel can not allow iran to have nuclear weapons. >> that's exactly what he said. >> that is what he said. >> he said what if they fly over our airspace, and he said is this a third war we are going to be fighting side by side with israel? >> let's just be very clear here. for those that say let's go into iran, if we go into iran, we have opened up a can of worms. i am just saying, this is the future. we are opening up a can of

worms, the likes of which we never opened up in iraq. or even afghanistan. >> you were discussing this with richard earlier. the problem is the united states has at the highless level, and said to netanyahu, let us see if there are ways to crash the fischers in the system in iran. and now you have mahmoud ahmadinejad coming to new york and denying the holocaust, and netanyahu coming to new york, and a meeting scheduled for tomorrow, and even though they failed to bridge the divide. >> if this coming over the wire. the chief of israel's military said they would not rule out a military strike on iran? >> this is the real fear the administration has. they know the clock is ticking. israel by the end of the year

will make ago or no-go decision. they fear israel is planning to do this without u.s. permission, and if they do it u.s. will be blamed throughout the arab world. >> yeah, and that's the other paurt of it. we have to put that in consideration. if iran is attacked by israel, the world is not going to focus their outrage on israel, but they will focus the outrage on us? >> and you are right about that. and the other aspect of it is $7 a gallon gasoline, and a dow jones at about 5000. >> okay. coming up, the dow jones hits a new high for the year, but it will it be able to keep the momentum.

we are going to check in with cnbc's erin burnett when we come back. - ( beeps ) - woman: the "two-minute warning." time for orville redenbacher's popcorn. two minutes can seem like an eternity. with walmart's unbeatable prices, you can bring your family together with orville redenbacher's popcorn every game day. save money. live better. walmart. two of nature's sweetest wonders growing together under the same sun. and now for the first time, in new sun crystals ® . the only 100% natural sweetener made with pure cane sugar and stevia. finally, all the sweetness of nature and just 5 calories a packet. nature gave us the recipe; we just gave it a name. new sun crystals ® all natural sweetener. two natural wonders. one sweet taste™.

so, at national, i go right past the counter... and you get to choose any car in the aisle. choose any car? you cannot be serious! okay. seriously, you choose. go national. go like a pro. this morning, secretary of state hillary clinton will be opening the opening bill on wall street. let's get a check on business

before my girlfriend rings the bell with cnbc's erin burnett. the wall street journal is talking about 10,000. are we going above that at some point? >> it's a level that is important psychologically, and when you hit it, you think about the days -- i remember the day mark haines and i said hats that said 1,400. but you have to start somewhere. 9820 is where we will open this morning. we are at that level lack in 2001. i am sorry, i am raining on the parade here. i have four pieces of good news. four pieces. are you ready? these are good. i have been combing through stuff just for you. here is the first good thing. there are going to be eight ipos this week. that's the most in about eight months, and actually late 2007, which is an incredible thing.

this is the sign companies believe the market is strong enough to put new stocks out there. and have you a medical company on there and a chinese video game company, and companies that are tried and tested. they are not hope and dream companies. appears good piece of news. the second good piece of news, this the home builder, the backlog of people demanding new homes up 19%. we are starting to see real improvement there. new orders have been increasing this entire year. that's good news on housing. cvs says 70% sold for the super bowl. and 70% is actually a number that those that real confidence by tiesers that they are willing

to topony up now and commit to rates. and then the largest retailer in china. a huge supplier for walmart. they are saying -- are you ready for this? we have not seen this kind of action is terms of demand in two years. the u.s. will lead the movement out of the recession. i believe he said that interview in hong kong. and they are talking about orders from walmart ex targand . >> i have always asked my friend how are things going to be in six months and he would know because they move freight. >> yeah. bye, guys. coming up, more layers to

the a.c.o.r.n. controversy. the leader of the organization was asked if she would testify before congress. simple question, but not a simple answer. that's next on our political round table. most for headaches. for arthritis pain... in your hands... knees... and back. for little bodies with fevers..

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there are poor people in the country every day that we are saving their homes and making sure they have decent wages. >> could you answer the congressman? >> it's not up to us. my job is to serve our members. >> could you answer the question directly. why not go before the committee? please let me ask the question. it seems like you are merging charity, nonprofit, profit and political and nonpolitical, and it gets jum bulled up and you don't know which dollar is going where. >> that's the congressman's

opinion. we will do what we need to do to make sure that folks understand the work that we actually do and that we have been doing. >> let's get a political round table now. andrea mitchell, back to you on a.c.o.r.n. we had dick durbin on earlier, and he said to have the trial before the hanging. >> they have a lot of explaining to do. clearly a.c.o.r.n. is under fire. some have a political agenda against a.c.o.r.n. a.c.o.r.n. has invited this by not keeping the books straight. clearly there will be an investigation. congress is going to look into it, and it should. >> i was elected in 1994 and in congress for seven years or so and have been following politics for years. i did not know who a.c.o.r.n. was until 2008. has there been a quiet battle?

>> it blew up in 2008. that's when they became a political issue because they were getting involved in voter registration. it was viewed as a way of backdoor way to help the obama campaign. it became an important test for the right to try and get somebody investigating a.c.o.r.n. >> a lot of conservatives are saying they have been investigated for voter fraud. have they been found guilty of voter fraud? >> i am not up to speed on that. what my colleague investigated in the whole issue of the videos and the controversy surrounding the sting videos against a.c.o.r.n. next topic, president oba obama -- he chose not to, and i

wonder why along with barnicle. there was a tape that kind of doesn't help the situation. it has nothing to do with it, but it's a producer -- do we have that, chris? >> it's from last saturday. >> it's the demonstrations. that's a producer for fox. i guess riling up the crowd for the cameras. >> i checked, and i don't know if she has been fired, but fox disciplined her. >> that's a big, boo-boo. >> mike, you think the president should have gone on this news. >> absolutely. he is no drama obama. he doesn't like confrontation. a couple things here, and roger is a genius. he made glenn beck. fox has their own point of view, and we have our own point of view sometimes, and put the

president right on there. it's very difficult to see the confrontation of the united states when he is there eyeball to eyeball. >> yeah, fox gets interviews that other networks don't get. who else has been interviewing dick cheney over and over again. and with that said, fox all during the george bush years had cabinet secretaries on the talk shows. the president is tough enough and smart enough to go up against any interviewer. >> i was just reminded by miss, bill o'reilly's interview by mi hillary clinton may have been fascinating. >> yeah, and nobody could handle it better than obama.

and may i -- may i point out that by not doing fox, doesn't it, joe, continue the us and them concept that is going on here that is a little damaging? and also it goes against the president's message. >> if i am advising a republican president and you have an out let on the other side organizing protest a week before us, i would say to hell for them, if they want to be the opposition, be the opposition. >> let me teach you a thing or two. >> here is the problem. mike, we talked about this before, i don't think the president knows everything in the 87 bills out there. if this were his bill, even with steph na -- >> well, the president has not

been able to explain the need for health care reform and what is in the bill to the american public. >> because it's the most complicated issue possible. and there is no bill yet. what baucus is proposing, they are trying to compromise it. >> thank you, andrea. and coming up -- >> andrea, 9:00. >> wow, what? you already have him booked. it's not easy being green, is it? >> we have the author of moony, and he talks about how americans are falling behind the world and how that's putting our future at risk. interesting.

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we're back. >> welcome back to "morning joe." here now the contributing editor, chris moonie. and great to have you with us. good to have you on. >> mika, you are talking about the decline of our civilization. >> my daughters are in science, and learning a lot of things. 46% of americans believe the earth is less than 10,000 years

old. what is wrong. i bring science to the table every morning. a decline in the whole idea that science is a part of life. what is the problem? >> american culture. science is one of the key achievements in the '50s and '60s, and we have fallen off there. it's not seen as something central. >> how do you measure that? are people taking less science courses? >> well, people don't know a lot of facts about science. there was an interesting survey when you ask people what was one of american's greatest achievements, they would say science. now that's only 27%.

science is behind a lot of the top policy choices. >> i think i took my last science class as a sophomore in high school, because i was so poor at it. but do you need a broader understanding? >> i would nrg the broader understanding. we lead the word in scientific innovation. we have for decades, but we are falling behind now because we are not paying too much attention to it. >> also, i think our children are losing the conception of what makes something happen? what makes something happen? they push a button and it's there, or swipe a card and it comes to you. they don't have a sense of cause and effect and volume and geography. is that part of the problem? >> yeah, and they don't see scientists as something that i

want to be. you ask them to name a scientific role model, and they can't. and they say bill gates or albert einstein. they are not scientists or they are not alive. >> how do you reverse the trend? >> have you to make people understand the science is the thing that the other kids did, and have you to make them understand why it's relevant to their lives. critical thinking, which is all that science is, will help you in various aspects of your life was go through it. >> how do we do that? how do we inspire the country? is there any way to change what you say as a riding tide or lack of awareness? >> you have to address the educational system. and you have to bring science back into the media, because we had karl sagg

and we have to sbee deuce it back into the media. >> how does this impact our country's understanding of science? >> i think it's hurt our ability to make policy. global warming, you have 84% saying it's human caused. 49% of the public agrees. we have a giant gap between the science population and the public. y >> what a great subject. >> chris, thank you so much for coming on the show. nice to meet you. the book is "unscientific america." you should get that. try and set a good example. willie, what is up next? >> coming up next, what, if

anything, did we learn today. good monday. the travel trouble spot down

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welcome back to "morning joe." what did we learn today? willie? >> from our last guest, 46% of high school students think the world is 10,000 years old or less. >> we need to learn science. >> and mike barnicle, what did you learn? >> tony blair should still be in office. >> love that guy. love him. >> what did you learn? >> a tax is a tax. >> i am still not sure. the president has a different opinion. >> grandma? by the way, look at the poll --

hole in grandma's sweater. >> everybody is pulling at it. >> we have a situation is what i learned. we have a situation with israel. this is getting very serious. so the president has afghanistan to worry about, and iraq's blowing up again. >> gadhafi is coming to town. >> he can't find a place to pitch his tent, it's ugly. >> taking on the governor of new york? >> yeah, and he is not backing down. >> that's a bad sign. and also, of course, i know this is for you, manchester united. man-city. they had what we call a derby between two rivals. it was an extraordinary match.

>> just a reminder, can you catch joe and me on the radio between 10:00 a.m. and noon eastern time. >> harrison ford at 1:00. >> wow, always has to one-up me, don't you? >> if it's too early, what time is it? >> it's time for "morning joe," but right now it's time for the "morning meeting" with dylan. nice to see you. i am dylan ratigan. this is the "morning meeting." let's begin topping our agenda today. breaking weather news. rescues under way in the city of atlanta. these are those massive southeastern thunderstorms right in the city of atlanta, dumping a foot or more of rain on homes and businesses and roadways are flooding. we are live with the latest in just a second on very severe weather in atlanta. mean while, president obama's sunday show grand slam.

five separate interviews on five separate networks. did the pr do the president any good in the effort to try and reform the health care system? what are we trying to reform? john edwards and a shocking new account of what happened with the woman that gave birth to his alleged love child. how far did he go to conceal the affair? is it appropriate for a politician to call a rich friend to have them write a check to another friend without disclosing it. meanwhile, republicans trying to resurge. why the gop is no longer acting like a defeated party? do they have a leg to stand on in 2012? perhaps the road of free market and choice is wide open. it is if you ask me. and the activist group needs to be investigated. should a.c.o.r.n. be at the top of the presidential priority

list? or is this another spitball fight to keep us with dealing with so many other issues that face the nation. pull up a chair and join the "morning meeting." i will begin with the president hitting five different sunday talk shows. an unprecedented media blitz for any commander in chief. priority number one to convince americans they need health care reform, and he talked about afghanistan and his own failings and trying to break through the noise chamber that surrounds d.c. in general. tonight he wraps up his appearance on the letterman show. and we see the distribution and the face. what is the message? >> reporter: it was interesting. dylan, this is unprecedented. the five interviews back to back on friday were done in the teddy

roosevelt wing. and the president is talking over and over for the need for health care. now the controversy is about the so-called affordability issue being hit hard in a couple interviews. in the baucus deal, a excise tax. if you are a family of four making $66,000, you don't have health insurance you will have to pay a fine of 13% of the income. and he is saying that is not a tax. having said that, he did not sign on to any of the specifics in that bill, but says that does fit his principle. in the campaign he said he did not want the individual mandate resulting in the fine, dylan? >> the junior senator from wyoming, and the senior senator from wyoming, a member of the now dissolved gang of six from what i can tell, senator welcome to the program. nice to see you.