mess broke public? also, as if things weren't bad enough for new york governor david paterson, now president obama has sent an operative to albany, new york to tell the governor he wants him out of the race, and if he does run against guiliani, governor paterson won't have the white house's support. it's a cold political move by president obama, much like the one he made recently in backing arlen specter in a democratic primary in pennsylvania. we're going to look at that in the "politics fix." and guess who apparently played a big role in had keeping hillary clinton from being barack obama's running mate? michelle obama. an interesting new political figure emerges. and we've got it in the "hardball" sideshow. we begin with the american war in afghanistan. and the latest report from our commanding general there, general mcchrystal, who says we need more troops or we lose. senator bernie sanders is an independent from vermont who organizes with the democratic party in the senate, and senator kay bailey hutchinson is a republican. thank you for coming on. the first is the question, what

do you make, senator sanders, of the statement by general mcchrystal in the field there, that basically we have two choices, go in big with a larger complement of troops, enough to protect the people there, or we leave and lose? we have no more -- >> i'm not overly impressed by that statement. this is my fear. my fear is that we can get sucked into a quagmire like we did in vietnam, like we did in iraq, but we have already lost over 700 troops. we have spent $200 billion. and you know what? we have not, as a congress, been clear about what our goal is in afghanistan. originally, it was to capture osama bin laden. we did not do that. and now it presumably is to rebuild one of the poorest countries on earth, which is rampant with corruption. so chris, what i think we need to do is, we need to really -- a national debate about what our goals are, what our exit strategy is, and i don't think the alternatives are simply pull out tomorrow, or put in tens of thousands of more troops.

>> okay. senator hutchinson, mcchrystal's statement seems to be if we want to win, we can't simply be available to attack al qaeda on occasion. we have to have enough troops to fight an insurgency, and protect the people. in other words, we need more troops or we're going to lose. given that choice, what do you make of that choice, first of all? do you think that's the real choice, more troops or leave? >> well, i think that is the choice, and we have to listen to the generals who are there, and who have the experience here. but i don't think the choice is just american troops. here is where i would call on president obama to get more help from nato. i think the nato alliance is at stake in the success in afghanistan. and i think the goal is very clear. the goal is to wipe out al qaeda and the taliban in every respect, where it can export

terrorism all over the world. and that's what al qaeda and the taliban have been gearing up to do. taliban doesn't really export now, but certainly al qaeda does, and taliban can. and we need -- and they may be doing it in pakistan, as well. i think we have got to have the clear goal of wiping them out, so that they will not terrorize other countries, freedom-loving countries, of the world. >> how can we get european countries to send more troops to after dpan stan or anybody else to send more troops if we have our own questions about doing it? and if we could have done it, wouldn't president bush of texas, wouldn't he have gotten other countries to go in, if it was so easy to do that? >> well, that's a good question. >> let me ask you, senator hutchison, how do we get other countries to put more troops into a country that we question whether we want to put more troops into or not? >> because nato made the commitment to do it. we have come to the defense, and the support of nato, time and

time again. we did bosnia, even though bosnia was in their backyard. kosovo. we have been there certainly in iraq. we pretty much went alone, except for the brits who were great. they always are. australians, canadians. but now the canadians even say, they're going to move out of afghanistan by 2011. and i think we call on nato to keep their commitment. they have a commitment. we have defended european countries all during the last century. and it's time for them to step up and say, yes, this is a war against all of us. it is a war against freedom, it's very clear that terrorism is a threat, it's a global threat, and if nato can't succeed in it wiping it out, nato should -- is not really going to be an effective alliance, and i think the terrorists will know that. >> i think we have a real division of position here. senator sanders, you basically think if the choice is between going in big with a larger

complement of american troops or getting out, you would prefer the alternate route. is that true? >> no, i don't think it's an all one-way or the other way. i think there are alternative ways. i am very fearful of just getting stuck in a quagmire. and there is a reason why the europeans are looking very hard at this. they understand that the quasi government is totally corrupt. they had an election now -- >> what's this middle way you see? general mcchrystal says you can't take the middle way. you can't take the approach of just -- >> in all due respect to the general, that is an opinion. but that's not the end of the discussion. i think what senator hutchison will agree with me on is that we have not had that kind of debate on the floor of the senate or in fact the floor of the house in terms of what are our goals. >> well, it seems to me there's -- okay. two sets of consequences. okay, senator, let me just ask you about the two sets of consequences i think you both agree on. one set of of consequences, if we stay in there indefinitely, it is a quagmire, by definition.

we're stuck. we're in a country we don't belong in, ultimately it's their country, ultimately the people who live there will decide the future of that country. so ultimately, it will be a quagmire by definition. the second alternative is if we pull out right now, al qaeda comes back and they're heavy. al qaeda begins to build plans to attack again. senator hutchison, those two choices, neither one looks too good. >> well, i don't think it's a matter of really the governance of afghanistan, except as it relates to the export of terrorism throughout the world. i mean, we do want to help the afghan people, of course, and get their confidence, but this is a war for freedom in the world. and we cannot lose sight of that. it's not nation-building for the purpose of nation-building. it is trying to make sure that al qaeda cannot export terrorism to our country ever again, to kill americans ever again, and europeans that should be as concerned about their own

population. >> okay. but general mcchrystal made clear in his report, there is no alternative for protecting the people over there. you can't simply go in there and say we're going to play wyatt earp and look for al qaeda. you have to protect the people if you're ever going to succeed. he says you can't just go after the bad guys. you have to nation-build. you don't agree with that senator hutchison? >> i think -- >> he's making the opposite point. he is saying -- he is saying you have to protect the people of that country, or you cannot defeat al qaeda. >> that's because the people of that country so fear the taliban and al qaeda that they help them, and we will never be able to defeat them if the people are helping them. that's why he is saying, we have to get their confidence, so they know that they can rely on us, and not be really brow-beaten or helped by al qaeda and therefore

that's what he is saying we have to nation-build, get their confidence, get our intelligence capabilities, not have the people helping the taliban and al qaeda defeat us. >> well, unfortunately, senators, you both disagree with general mcchrystal, because mcchrystal says as our commanding leader of our forces, we have to increase the complement of our troops to do the job. you senator hutchison want to find other forces to do it, because there's insufficient forces in the country right now to protect the people against the taliban. >> no, i'm saying -- if we can't get the europeans to help us and the nato alliance, we will have to -- america is the only country that will have the commitment to fight for freedom. and we will do it. and i will support it. but i think we ought to go to nato first. >> i'll jump in. everybody knows what the taliban is, and how awful they are. but number one, al qaeda is sitting in pakistan, protected there. and when the senator talks about fighting for freedom, the

afghan -- the people of afghanistan don't believe that they are living in a free country, because you justify had a corrupt election, it is a corrupt government, a lot of the money that we are sending in there is stolen, and they are the largest producers of poppy, which is converted into heroin, in the whole world. so this is not exactly a fight for freedom. i think, on the other hand, we should be very vigorous in doing our best to train the armed forces of afghanistan. and the police forces of afghanistan. and help them stand up to the taliban. >> your response. >> it's a fight for our freedom. we muddy feet the taliban and al qaeda so that americans can live in freedom, so that we will not have another 9/11. and the european countries have the same concerns, or should have. that is why we're fighting. we need to build up the afghan people, and i agree with general mcchrystal on that. i am not in disagreement with him, because i think we need to listen to the generals on the

ground. and i think we need to give them the resources they need to fight. but i'm saying to the president, go to nato first. we need to have relief. our national guard troops are being overused and overdeployed. we need to build up with nato forces, if we possibly can, but if they will not come through, then, of course, we will keep our commitment. >> okay. last question. i only have a second or two here. each of you briefly as you can, how long are you willing to keep american troops in iraq? we have been there eight years now, it's the longest war we have had, the combat troops going into vietnam in '65, the longest war so far in our history. how many years would you stay in there, senator sanders? >> ironically, the iraqi government wants us out sooner than the american government does. >> no, i'm talking about afghanistan. >> oh, i thought you said iraq. in afghanistan, and as i said, i think we should train the afghan police force, the afghan army,

and i would be very, very cautious about bringing more troops in there, unless we knew what our exit strategy was, and what our long-term goals are. we don't know that now. >> okay. senator hutchison, how many more years should we fight an eight-year war? >> on this i agree with senator sanders. i think we need to assure that we have an exit strategy, that we have the goal, which i think is very clear, and that is to wipe out the taliban, and al qaeda, so they cannot export terrorism throughout the world. and however long that takes. we need to have, though, the clear vision so that we set the benchmarks, and we know that we can leave and keep that country from exporting further terrorism. >> however long it takes. thank you very much, senator bernie sanders, senator kay bailey hutchison of texas. coming up, president obama's media blitz. he does five sunday shows. and letterman coming up tonight. when the president says the same thing on each show, is it a bit like dancing the same dance at every inaugural ball?

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welcome back to "hardball." remember back in january when president obama and the first lady appeared in so many inaugural parties. look at that, dancing to the same song "at last" for different crowds, same tux, same song, different rooms? look at that repetition. well, that's the kind of thing it felt like on sunday when the president appeared on five different sunday talk shows to talk about health care. there he is, same suit, same room, five different hosts for five different networks. that's a reality. today's "new york times" front page put it this way.

for the president, five programs, one message. well, with a late-night shot with david letterman coming hours from now, is the media blitz working? we're joined right here at this table by "news weeks" howard fineman. there it is, in all the papers, the incredible focus on the multiplicity. gene? i just wonder, i think everybody looks the same, the anchors all look the same. i notice different levels of shoe-shining efforts, though. i made an effort. some people were more gentlemanly. i'm not going to say who. the president's shoes are celebriti excellent, i must say, and i say the men who shine their shoes the most do the best. including jack kennedy, who started it. you laugh. you take this too lightly, howard. >> no, i'm not. >> let's get to the substance here. >> my shoes are shined. >> is the president selling too much, the same product, without

any success? >> well, if you look at it, you know, you could say maybe he's overexposed. but i think this works for him. i think what he did was dominate the news cycle, and get his message out, and when he's getting his message out, that means his opponents are not getting their message out. so you know, it's kind of odd that the president -- >> is this blackening the skies with airplanes? let's look at lindsay graham here, because lindsay graham is pretty funny. here's what he said on sunday. making fun of the president for doing somewhat tube time but not enough back room time. here he is. lindsay graham of south carolina. >> when he came to the house, he was very combative, i thought. we're not bickering. he accused people of demagoguery who objected to his plan, of lying about certain aspects of his plan. he says, if you want to bicker, forgive it. if you want to sit down and talk -- i've always wanted to

sit down and talk. the president is selling something, and people, quite frankly, are not buying. he has been on everything but the food channel. >> that was a pretty good line, howard, everything but the food channel. many i think he went on to take a bigger shot at him. here is the question. somebody once told a friend of mine, it was a woman, her mother always said, don't make yourself too available. too available. is that his problem right now? >> no, i don't think so. i sort of agree with gene. it's a little bit of radar-jamming here. i've talked to democrats -- democrats on both the house and the senate here from my perch in pittsburgh with my well-shined shoes, and they said, look, better that he's on there than democratic critics. the problem for the president has been, they want to put all of his democratic critics on the sunday shows to take pot shots. that's number one. number two, he's trying to show that he's trying, because he's going to have to go to the left wing of his party, i think, on both wings of his party, and say, look, i'm trying to get something done. i'm showing the flag doing it. and i think he wants to put

pressure on the finance committee to sends the senate. because if this bill is going to get killed, it's going to get killed in the senate finance committee. did he hurt his own credibility? no. did all of the people hosting the sunday shows -- >> oh, i get it. you are so skilled. this is an interesting point. >> you're saying that what the president is doing is putting sweat equity into this to the point that his own party members will be afraid to go after a president who is buckled down so heavily on this, put so many chips on the table, that they now know they can't break with him. >> exactly. >> that's been -- this is brinksmanship. >> it is. >> and it's going back -- you're not willing to destroy -- >> everybody in on this. >> well, that worked with a ben nelson of omaha, nebraska, who has his own politics. will it work with the blanch lincoln of arkansas who has her own politics? >> i think it ought to work with the center -- >> why will it work for some in politics to worry about? >> it will work because if the democrats are going to go down in 2010, or 2012, who is going

to lose? >> your argument -- if i lose, you lose. let's look at the president. here he is with his david gregory version of sunday television. this is yesterday. >> i've sent a clear signal, and tried to maintain an approach that says, look, can have some serious disagreements, but at the end of the day i'm assuming you want the best for america like i do. >> you get a lot of air time too, though. >> well, i do occupy a pretty special seat at the moment. but i do think that, look, i mean, let's face it. if you look at the news cycle over the last week, you know, it hasn't been the sensible people who, you know, very deliberately talk about the important issues that we face as a country. that's not the folks who have gotten a lot of coverage. >> okay. let me try something by gentlemen, because we talk a lot, and i don't want to get off

chatter with the american people. howard and gene, here's my question. if approximate you go to the average person in this country who has got their own problems, whatever, they're middle class, working class, whatever, they're worried about the economy. they're worried about their kids not being able to get jobs, they're worried about holding on to their own jobs, they're worried about their lack of savings. they remember having more, don't have as much now, worried about their home values going down. these are real concerns of real people. isn't there a disconnect between those real concerns of real people, the economy, and the president going on television and selling this health care thing that isn't what they're thinking about? isn't he off channel? >> here's what i think the disconnect is. i can the white house still hasn't driven home the message it's trying to get over, which is that you may not think your health care is in danger. you may think it's fine. but your premiums are going up much faster than your salary. they have doubled in the last few years. >> yeah, but people worry about a larger question. >> and your health care is in it jeopardy. now, that's the message they're trying to get across. >> okay, howard, i'm going to try with you. is the president on the wrong

channel here? shouldn't be he focusing on the economy, and the economy, the economy, stupid, and saying, by the way, one of the ways we can help the economy is to get this health care bill through? in other words, get on the channel the people are on, which is worrying about the economy, not his pet project? >> right. >> a lot of people may say he wants the trophy, i just want to hold on to my job. i wonder if he is off. you may agree with gene. >> no, i agree -- i said i think that's a danger, chris, and viewed from the vantage point of pittsburgh, definitely so. he's popular here, but people aren't quite getting the connection between the gamesmanship going on inside the beltway and his constant references to himself. it's very interesting about obama. he uses the word "i" a lot, which was good. because it helped him get elected, because as he said, you know, we were the change we have been waiting for. but if he makes it sound too much like a political victory as opposed to the victory, a victory for average working people, then he's definitely in trouble. and if they get to thinking, along with jay rockefeller, from

right next door in west virginia, that this bill is going to hurt health insurance plans for steel workers and coal minors, et cetera, then the president has got himself some trouble, and he better watch out for it. whether you call it a tax or whatever you're going to call it, people are going to be aware of that. they're sort of -- it's an odd thing. they want change, but they're also in a conservative mood here, because they have lost so much else, they're worried about losing their health care short-term, not long-term. >> gene? >> i think maybe we have hit on another new axiom, which is not just shine your shoes, but use the word "you" rather than the word "i" or "we," say this is about you. >> exactly. i just wonder whether he has lost that magic sin chronicity he had with the people he had had a year ago. knowing we didn't like the war in iraq, knowing we didn't like bush and cheney. and now trying to talk about something that's his focus, like

precious bodily fluids in the movie -- >> chris, the problem -- >> he does this sort of thing. his numbers go up. the one thing he is really out of step with public opinion on is afghanistan. and that's a big problem. >> i'm just wondering, you both think -- you think he's talking to the american people on their level. >> yeah. >> okay. i think he may have lost the channel for a while. thank you, gene robinson, howard fineman. we'll be right back. we have the "politics fix" coming up. up next, the bill clinton tapes, an absolute gem about a drunken boris yeltsin. here is the head of the russian federation flagging a cab in the middle of the night, lotto, trying to find a place in washington where they sell pizza at 3:00 in the morning. this is a head of a government? you're watching "the sideshow" you're watching "hardball" on msnbc. tools are uncomplicated? nothing complicated about a pair of 10 inch hose clamp pliers. you know what's complicated?

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back to "hardball," and time for the sideshow. first you were, up, was boris bad enough? the clinton tapes on the account of the clinton presidency based on dozens of secret interviews with bill clinton while he was president. in the book, he gives us an inside account of the late russian leader, boris yeltsin during a 1995 trip to washington. here it is, the sugar plum. president clinton had received notice of a major predawn security alarm when secret service agents discovered yeltsin alone on pennsylvania avenue, dead drunk, clad in his underwear, yelling for a taxi. yeltsin slurred his words in a loud argument with the baffled an jepts. he did not want to go back into blair house where he was staying. he wanted a taxi to go out for pizza. well, clinton said, shrugging, he got his pizza.

how i look at it, this guy stood up to the red army, standing on a tank back in august of 1991, and as far as i'm concerned he ended the cold war, then and there. boris yeltsin, whatever his problems with alcohol, was one of the truly significant men of modern times. i was at my grade school reunion at saint christopher's in philadelphia, and a classman way back in 1954, jeannie budard who i remember as the coolest girl of the class said she remembered when sister told us that soviet dictator joseph stolin had just died, and that we say a prayer together. she remember me defiantly declaring i would pray for a killer. she was worried my out loud defiance would get our whole class in trouble. i was nine at the time. wow. this is about barack and michelle, the new president and the first lady has it, that, quote, michelle sided with those that said hillary clinton would

make a better secretary of state than vice president. she said, do you really want bill and hillary clinton just down the hall from you in the white house? could you live with that? that is michelle obama advising her husband. barack obama against naming hillary clinton his vice president. well, time for tonight's big number. the so values voters that had their big conference here had a 2012 straw vote over the weekend in washington that pitted presidential hopefuls like mitt romney and sarah palin, mike huckabee and tim pawlenty against one another. who came out on top? mike huckabee, with 28% of the vote. romney, pay lynn and pawlenty were bunched in approximate around 12% a piece. huckabee, the top presidential pick among self-described values voters with 28% of their vote. tonight's vastly big number. up next, john edwards may be close to admitting that he fathered a child with rielle hunter outside his marriage. the latest from a long and sort

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i'm mike huckman. the surgerying dollar dragged on kmomts of. the dow jones industrial fighting 43 points, and nasdaq 5 points higher in the biotechnology sector. the dollar moved sharply higher against most major currencies today after a two-week decline. investors are looking ahead to this week's rate-setting meeting by the federal reserve of. the feds expected to leave interest rates near zero, but the dollar could be looking at a strong rebound if the fed hints at raising interest rates sooner than expected. the dollar's rise meant

trouble for commodities today. gold and silver prices continue to slide with gold prices losing more than $8 since friday. and crude oil prices are sharply lower. that's partly due about the surging rather -- the surging dollar in partly due to an ongoing lack of command in china. that's it from cnbc, first in business worldwide. now back to "hardball." welcome back to "hardball." john edwards is back in the news, like it or not, thanks to a "new york times" article that revealed the details of a book proposal by a former aide. here's part of it. he wrote that mr. edwards once calmed an anxious rielle, rielle hunter, promising after his wife died he would marry her in a roof top ceremony in new york with an appearance by the dave matthews band.

that's rather elaborate. how did his reckless and running effect the 2000 race? that's our question tonight, and could edwards be punished for trying to cover up the affair? joining me the "washington post" writer, and david corn, a difficult man at best. a columnist for politicsdaily.com. i want to go to you on the reporting end. how significant -- i'm looking at the results of the iowa caucus, he got 30% to obama's 38, to senator clinton's 29. so he was in the pack. was he spoiler that helped obama win in iowa and therefore the whole thing? >> the clinton campaign argues that. they figure if mainstream reporters had taken the story seriously -- >> they knew about this poop. >> sure, he denied any of the earlier rumors and there was no evidence that we had. >> the campaign helped obama by

keeping the story quiet about edwards? >> but from a numerical standpoint, i think you could argue that the people -- it could have split evenly. i think the voters who went for edwards -- >> bottom line -- he had an affair with someone -- a child was about to be born that was his, and he's going to admit it, and therefore if this guy was the nominee, there would have been a real calamity for the dems. >> that would have been the nightmare scenario if he succeeded, which he didn't. if you look at the numbers which were the turning point for barack obama, his voters, edwards' voters, would have had to broken two to one for hillary for her to win that campaign. win iowa, and stop barack obama. and a lot of the other big races down the road, colorado, virginia, wisconsin. barack obama won by big margins. i don't think there's very much of a case to be made that he took more votes from hillary clinton than from barack obama. you could look at it as both he and barack obama were the anti

hillary candidates, since she was the leading candidate in the beginning, the establishment candidate. >> okay. can you tell, when you cover somebody like john edwards, i noticed when we covered him -- i can't read minds, but when i covered him when we did the big town hall meeting, i sensed there was something going on. but it could be he had had a headache, could be worried about something that had to do with this. but i sensed there was some cloud over him. i don't know, did you sense this by watching, interviewing him? >> there were two occasions when all of us kind of looked at each other and said there was something not right here. >> about him. >> well, and about them as a couple. one was when she rah announced her breast cancer returned, they stood apart from each other. but i traveled with them to new hampshire -- >> what was the broken rib have to do with them standing far apart. >> he didn't hug her, because the last time he hugged her, she had been very fragile. i traveled with them to new hampshire in the summer of 2007, and i saw her at one point go of off by herself and sit looking off into the woods. and i thought, wow, that's

really sad, she is obviously sick. but in hindsight, these moments look as though there is something going on between them. but there wasn't enough for us to call them on it. >> but it seems strange -- >> running for president is a strange thing. all sorts of -- you know, you're doing this with your wife having cancer. there was a lot of reason for him -- >> what's out these days, if you have a child out of wedlock with someone who is not your wife, does that blow your presidential chances? i don't know anymore what's in and what's out. you're laughing. is that a deal-breaker? >> i wouldn't suggest trying it. >> is that a deal-breaker? ann, can you say it's a deal-breaker? >> yes. >> but john edwards violated every basic rule of crisis management. which is when you have something like this, you get out as much of a story as you can all at once. he has turned this into a long -- what is it, a year-and-a-half long soap opera now? >> here he is last year on "night line," talking about it. >> i know that it's not possible that this child could be mine, because of the timing of events.

so i know it's not possible. >> well, here's "new york times" reporting quoted associates of john edwards saying he is considering declaring that he is in fact the father of miss hunter's 19-month-old daughter, something he once flatly asserted was not possible. >> that's the point. if he had just come clean then -- >> you admitted a minute ago he would have been finished. >> that would have always been done, but people wouldn't hate him as much now. he's a young, smart, vibrant guy. decades ahead of him. what is he going to do with his wife? >> there is a story, that he goes to restaurants in chapel hill, and people don't come over and say hi, how are you doing. >> the kennedy funeral, people all come up and talk to elizabeth. >> well, he went on the apology tour, calling north carolinans, begging -- >> what does this say to us about the press corps that we get so excited over someone like

him. i remember in 2004 when he gave hot speeches in iowa and he was a barn burner, and there were 2 or 300 people there, and people would go wild. maybe it was in front of a jury, but it was working, ann. weren't you taken with it? didn't you think he had the stuff? >> he did. and certainly elizabeth did. and everyone thought -- >> why he had the stuff. >> she too, they were both charismatic, seemed like this perfect couple. gone through tragedy and survived. >> we look at the surface, how handsome, how well-spoken, what a great popular message he has and all of this going on. >> it's not superficial. these are real bona fide talents and skills. he's a smart guy, i like to stand on issues. but when it comes to people's personal lives, you never know. and, you know, the press can vet it, and people around him obviously will speak about these things. he thought about this with bill clinton during the hillary clinton campaign, but you never know for sure. >> this is the old question. if it doesn't show, why is it important to talk about ever?

why is it important? you say the guy is a dead letter, because of having a child to a woman who is not his wife. if it's not relevant to his public life, then why is he a dead -- >> in some countries -- in france, mitter ran had a daughter with another woman, and that was widely known, it just wasn't talked about, never stopped him from becoming prime minister. a lot of places it's not a dead letter. but in america, where we have a puta sense, as well as a purian -- >> do you agree with that? >> i think that -- >> you want to take the french model. >> i don't think there is anything wrong with the french model. >> i think -- >> i don't know if you're willing to stand by that. >> well, i would have to think about it. the level -- the level of moral term attitude is -- >> well, when we start getting into latin words, we're in trouble. you knew he was dead all along and you covered up for him. >> what i want to know is, where -- where is the dave matthews band, what do they have to say about this, and are they still thinking -- >> well, he was promising this girl not only a roof top -- first of all a., a marriage, and

he had had the entertainment figured out. strange guy. i guess that's what seduction is. thank you, david corn. this is a little embarrassing we were having this conversation. but we'll move on. up next, the white house telling a democrat not to run for election next time because he would lose to rudy guiliani. that seems to be the message. is that smart politics for obama to be big-footing in these races, who does he think he is? politics is next. this is "hardball" only on msnbc. fresh mixer thingys, they taste fresh... say it again! say it like, "mmmm, these healthy choice fresh mixers taste freshh!!" they taste fresh... wait. what are you doing? got it. you're secretly taping me? you know, it wasn't a secret to us, we knew. yes, but it was a secret to me. of course, otherwise i would be sitting like this and completely block his shot. so that's why i was like... didn't you notice this was weird? no. made fresh from your desk, cook it fresh, strain it fresh, mix it fresh. healthy choice fresh mixers, look for it in the soup or pasta aisle.

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we've got some special guests here. that i want to acknowledge in addition to jill. first of all, a wonderful man, the governor of the great state of new york, david paterson is in the house. your shy and retiring attorney general, andrew cuomo, is in the house. andrew is doing great work, enforcing laws that need to be enforced. >> of course, that was president obama today being nice to governor david paterson in new york, and perhaps nicer to attorney general andrew cuomo who wants his job. does the president really want the governor to step aside in

2010, step aside in 2010? smart to get involved in primary fights in time for the politics fix with michael smerconish, msnbc contributor and dominic carter, hoeflt of inside city ham. the president seems to be playing big good in journalism, sending operatives out there, according to "the new york time times", to tell david paterson, governor of new york, he got the job through succession, to go. he's telling people in different states what he once did in primaries it seems. >> that's a risky strategy. listen to the amount of words that were spent concentrating on mr. cuomo, the attorney general, as opposed to the sitting governor. the latest information we have, chris, according to a white house administration official, they told us that there was no

conversation between president obama and zbomgovernor patersont did not deny, chris, and this is important, that the white house is concerned about the political situation in new york state and that those concerns -- >> dominic, that's something nobody asserted. the assertion was in "the new york times" he sent his operative, political operative, up to albany to make the case for him, deliver the goods. that's denying the -- that isn't denying anything. that's just bs basically. let me go here to michael smerconish. reminds me of the british taking over when they seem to be firing roger steriling. all of a sudden your name is not on the chart. who is this guy to come in and tell people, i'm governor patter zn, you're not governor anymore. i like this guy, cuomo, because he can beat giuliani and you can't. >> in the end of the 1960s, peggy will be running the sterling cooper ad agency. >> my idea of this guy, the president acting like the brits coming in and giving the orders

is kind of stunning. reminds me of the new phrase in politics called transactional politics. no more relation l politics. your friends are the people you need to deal with that day. forget yesterday. his new friend is arlen specter. this guy falls in love with new people quickly. what is going on? he finds new friends to meet his new needs. >> he's the med of the party. you could argue he should step forward in these circumstances and do what's right for the party. you know paterson's numbers are in the tank. what's best for the democratic party is that he embraced cuomo and do what he can to muscle him out. in the specter case he's got the 60th vote because of specter. >> i know the motive here. let me go back to dominic. what do you think of the president of the united states going into new york state politics saying get out of the bay, bill clinton, get out of the way everybody else, get out of the way hillary clinton. i'm calling the shots here.

i'm deciding who will be the nominee next year. >> it is a strong statement and a risky strategy. you can make some very powerful enemies that way. keep in mind for the obama white house the 800 pound gorilla in the room in all of this is rudy giuliani. they don't want republican giuliani to come over and take over the governor's mansion. handwriting has been on the wall for governor paterson. looking at a poll with 70% of the state's residents don't want him to run for re-election. >> dare i point to the pattern. rudy giuliani runs against david paterson, they think he'll beat him. is this rudy running against an african-american again exploiting the usual social riffs that come about in these situations in big states? is that what's going on here that they're afraid of? >> i don't think that's the case, chris. think the bottom line is residents, you know, i'm trying to figure out a nice way to say

this. david paterson has not set well in terms of state residence with the voters of this state. i don't think it's a racial component in this. the democrats just don't want to lose the statehouse. they don't want to -- >> does rudy have the stones to run against andrew cuomo? >> that's a good question. >> that's what i asked you, dominic. >> that's why you're asking me. julianfully, considering it, who knows. if paterson is the nominee he's probably going to run. >> i'll give you a minute to think about it. tell us when we come back whether rudy has the stuff, think of a nice word, to take on andrew cuomo. one tops them all. adding it helps us use less salt than before in campbell's tomato soup while keeping the famous flavor. ♪ so many, many reasons ♪ it's so m'm! m'm! good! ♪

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we're back with michael smerconish and dominic carter. let me ask you about this letterman thing tonight. we've been comparing tonight with the first time he was inaugurated with all the dances he did, one after another after another. where is this going to end up? this marathon dancing of his with different talk show hosts? he started with you, by the way, i think. >> i think you're right. to those of us who are junkies it looks like saturation. there so many fragmented markets. i think he did all the early morning shows except fox because he didn't want to alienate

everybody. we presuppose everybody watches it when, in fact, they don't. i bet you people watching letterman tonight don't watch the sunday morning shows. i make the argument for him he's got to go out and do this different outreach to hit every cross section of the populous. >> dominic, what did he say? bigger question. what did he say? >> i agree with mike. one, for all the shows that the president did yesterday, perhaps he may have a bigger audience tonight on letterman. what he does tonight is he shows us the humorous side. he takes all this heated rhetoric as it relates to health care, some of it which some claims is racial, and he brings down the temperature tonight. he puts it in a way that everyone can understand. >> i think you got the point there which is if people are saying terrible things about you not being american, not being the kind of guy you like, all that stuff, show up and prove you are better than they say. thank you, michael smerconish. dominic carter, sir, thank you. i'm going to wait on your answer whether rudy is going to run

against andrew or not. join us tomorrow night 5:00 and 7:00 eastern for more "hardball." time for "the ed show" with eld schultz. welcome to "the ed show" tonight. breaking news off the top, john boehner says health care reform is dead? president says no. the public option is still alive. the leader of the republican minority is telling nbc's "meet the press" that democrats will not get it done. >> the congress will not pass this. it's time for the president to hit the reset button. stop all of this and let's sit down and start over in a bipartisan way to build a plan that americans will support. >> do you think the plan is dead? >> i think it is. >> not only have the righties drawn a line in the sand, now they're dissing the president. in response, here's what the president said on the same program. >> the public option, you effectively said to the left, what's going to happen? >> that's not true.

what i said is the public option should be a part of this. we shouldn't think somehow that's the silver bullet that solves health care. >> yes, it is. the president is asked about the public option on the top-rated sunday news show. that's the best he can do? not to be too critical, mr. president. the fact is you made health care the number one priority. it's the country's most urgent issue. he had the microphone on all of the major networks and i don't understand the lack of passion and commitment as we head into the 11th hour of all of this. the president did make a stronger statement on the public option on a different network, univision. >> i do not believe it is dead. i believe it's something we can still include as part of a comprehensive reform effort. >> but i want to hear, we got to have it! the president needs to start speaking from a position of authority. i don't sense that. he should have said this. this is what i want. this is where