arlen specter in pennsylvania. we'll look at that in "the politics fix" tonight. and guess who apparently played a big role in keeping hillary clinton from being barack obama's running mate? michelle obama. an interesting new political figure emerges. and we've got it in the "hardball" sideshow. we begin with the american war in afghanistan. and the latest report from our commanding general there, who says we need more troops or we will lose. senator bernie sanders is an independent from vermont who organizes with the democratic party in the senate, and senator kay bailey hutchison is a republican. thank you for coming on. the first is the question, what do you make, senator sanders, of the statement by general mcchrystal in the field there, that basically we have two choices, go in big with a larger complement of troops, enough to protect the people there, or we leave and lose? we have no more -- >> i'm not overly impressed by that statement. this is my fear. my fear is that we can get sucked into a quagmire like we

did in vietnam, like we did in iraq. we've already lost over 700 troops. we have spent $200 billion. and you know what? we have not, as a congress, been clear about what our goal is in afghanistan. originally, it was to capture osama bin laden. we did not do that. and now it presumably is to rebuild one of the poorest countries on earth, which is rampant with corruption. so chris, what i think we need to do is, we need to really -- a national debate about what our goals are, what our exit strategy is, and i don't think the alternatives are simply pull out tomorrow, or put in tens of thousands of more troops. >> okay. senator hutchinson, mcchrystal's statement seems to be if we want to win there we have to protect the people of this country. we can't simply be available to attack al qaeda on occasion. we have to have enough troops to fight an insurgency, and protect the people. in other words, we need more troops or we're going to lose. given that choice, what do you make of that choice, first of all? do you think that's the real choice, more troops or leave?

>> well, i think that is the choice, and we have to listen to the generals who are there, and who have the experience here. but i don't think the choice is just american troops. here is where i would call on president obama to get more help from nato. i think the nato alliance is at stake in the success in afghanistan. and i think the goal is very clear. the goal is to wipe out al qaeda and the taliban in every respect, where it can export terrorism all over the world. and that's what al qaeda and the taliban have been gearing up to do. taliban doesn't really export now, but certainly al qaeda does, and taliban can. and we need -- and they may be doing it in pakistan, as well. i think we have got to have the clear goal of wiping them out, so that they will not terrorize other countries, freedom-loving countries, of the world. >> how can we get european

countries to send more troops to afghanistan or anybody else to send more troops if we have our own questions about doing it? and if we could have done it, wouldn't bush have done it, president bush of texas, wouldn't he have gotten other countries to go in if it was so easy to do that? >> well, that's a good question. >> let me ask you, senator hutchison, how do we get other countries to put more troops into a country that we question whether we want to put more troops into or not? >> because nato made the commitment to do it. we have come to the defense, and the support of nato, time and time again. we did bosnia, even though bosnia was in their backyard. kosovo. we have been there certainly in iraq. we pretty much went alone, except for the brits who were great. they always are. australians, canadians. but now the canadians even say, they're going to move out of afghanistan by 2011. and i think we call on nato to

keep their commitment. they have a commitment. we have defended european countries all during the last century. and it's time for them to step up and say, yes, this is a war against all of us. it is a war against freedom, it's very clear that terrorism is a threat, it's a global threat, and if nato can't succeed in it wiping it out, nato should -- is not really going to be an effective alliance, and i think the terrorists will know that. >> i think we have a real division of position here. senator sanders, you basically think if the choice is between going in big with a larger complement of american troops or getting out, you would prefer the alternate route. is that true? >> no, i don't think it's an all one-way or the other way. i think there are alternative ways. i am very fearful of just getting stuck in a quagmire. and there is a reason why the europeans are looking very hard at this. they understand that the quasi government is totally corrupt. they had an election now -- >> what's this middle way you see? general mcchrystal says you can't take the middle way. you can't take the approach of

just -- >> in all due respect to the general, that is an opinion. but that's not the end of the discussion. i think what senator hutchison will agree with me on is that we have not had that kind of debate on the floor of the senate or in fact the floor of the house in terms of what are our goals? >> well, it seems to me there's -- okay. two sets of consequences. okay, senator, let me just ask you about the two sets of consequences i think you both agree on. one set of of consequences, if we stay in there indefinitely, it is a quagmire, by definition. we're stuck. we're in a country we don't belong in, ultimately it's their country, ultimately the people who live there will decide the future of that country. so ultimately, it will be a quagmire by definition. the second alternative is if we pull out right now, al qaeda comes back and they're heavy. al qaeda begins to attack or build plans to attack us again. senator hutchison, those two choices, neither one looks too good. >> well, i don't think it's a matter of really the governance

of afghanistan, except as it relates to the export of terrorism throughout the world. i mean, we do want to help the afghan people, of course, and get their confidence, but this is a war for freedom in the world. and we cannot lose sight of that. it's not nation-building for the purpose of nation-building. it is trying to make sure that al qaeda cannot export terrorism to our country ever again, to kill americans ever again, and europeans that should be as concerned about their own population. >> okay. but general mcchrystal made clear in his report, there is no alternative for protecting the people over there. you can't simply go in there and say we're going to play wyatt earp and look around for al qaeda. you have to protect the people if you're ever going to succeed. he says you can't just go after the bad guys. you have to nation-build. you don't agree with that senator hutchison? >> i think --

>> he's making the opposite point. he is saying -- he is saying you have to protect the people of that country, or you cannot defeat al qaeda. >> that's because the people of that country so fear the taliban and al qaeda that they help them, and we will never be able to defeat them if the people are helping them. that's why he is saying, we have to get their confidence, so they know that they can rely on us, and not be really brow-beaten or helped by al qaeda and therefore that's what he is saying we have to nation-build, get their confidence, get our intelligence capabilities, not have the people helping the taliban and al qaeda defeat us. >> well, unfortunately, senators, you both disagree with general mcchrystal, because mcchrystal says as our commanding leader of our forces, we have to increase the complement of our troops to do the job. you senator hutchison want to find other forces to do it, because there's insufficient forces in the country right now

to protect the people against the taliban. that we're left -- >> no, i'm saying -- if we can't get the europeans to help us and the nato alliance, we will have to -- america is the only country that will have the commitment to fight for freedom. and we will do it. and i will support it. but i think we ought to go to nato first. >> i'll jump in. everybody knows what the taliban is, and how awful they are. but number one, al qaeda is sitting in pakistan, protected there. and when the senator talks about fighting for freedom, the afghan -- the people of afghanistan don't believe that they are living in a free country, because you justify had a corrupt election, it is a corrupt government, a lot of the money that we are sending in there is stolen, and they are the largest producers of poppy, which is converted into heroin, in the whole world. so this is not exactly a fight for freedom. i think, on the other hand, we should be very vigorous in doing our best to train the armed forces of afghanistan. and the police forces of

afghanistan. and help them stand up to the taliban. >> senator hutchison, your response? >> it's a fight for our freedom. we must defeat the taliban and al qaeda so that americans can live in freedom, so that we will not have another 9/11. and the european countries have the same concerns, or should have. that is why we're fighting. we need to build up the afghan people, and i agree with general mcchrystal on that. i am not in disagreement with him, because i think we need to listen to the generals on the ground. and i think we need to give them the resources they need to fight. but i'm saying to the president, go to nato first. we need to have relief. our national guard troops are being overused and over-deployed. we need to build up with nato forces, if we possibly can, but if they will not come through, then, of course, we will keep our commitment. >> okay. last question. i only have a second or two here.

each of you briefly as you can, how long are you willing to keep american troops in iraq? we have been there eight years now, it's the longest war we have had, the combat troops going into vietnam in '65, the longest war so far in our history. how many years would you stay in there, senator sanders? how many more years would you stay -- >> ironically, the iraqi government wants us out sooner than the american government does. i would -- >> no, i'm talking about afghanistan. >> oh, afghanistan, i thought you said iraq. in afghanistan, and as i said, i think we should train the afghan police force, the afghan army, and i would be very, very cautious about bringing more troops in there, unless we knew what our exit strategy was, and what our long-term goals are. we don't know that now. >> okay. senator hutchison, how many more years should we fight an eight-year war? >> on this i agree with senator sanders. i think we need to assure that we have an exit strategy, that we have the goal, which i think is very clear, and that is to wipe out the taliban, and al qaeda, so they cannot export terrorism throughout the world.

and however long that takes. we need to have, though, the clear vision so that we set the benchmarks and we know that we can leave and keep that country from exporting further terrorism. >> however long it takes. thank you very much, senator bernie sanders, senator kay bailey hutchison of texas. coming, up, president obama's media blitz. he does five sunday shows. and letterman coming up tonight. when the president says the same thing on each show, is it a bit like dancing the same dance at every inaugural ball? what did he actually achieve this weekend? prepare your mouth for a battle against germs. protect your mouth right with crest pro-health rinse at night. it kills 99% of germs that cause gingivitis, plaque, and bad breath, without the burn of alcohol. for a healthier mouth that's cleaner in the morning. get wrapped up in the luscious taste of butternut squash, blended with delicate herbs. v8 golden butternut squash. from campbell's.

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welcome back to "hardball." remember back in january when president obama and the first lady appeared in so many inaugural parties? look at that, dancing to the same song "at last" for different crowds, same tux, same song, different rooms? look at that repetition. well, that's the kind of thing it felt like on sunday when the president appeared on five different sunday talk shows to talk about health care. there he is, same suit, same room, five different hosts for five different networks. there he is. by the way, that's

multiplicati multiplication. that's a reality. today's "new york times" front page but it this way. for the president, five programs, one message. well, with a late-night shot with david letterman coming hours from now, is the media blitz working? "washington post" eugene robinson joins me. rourd fineman is in his hometown of pittsburgh. there it is, in all the papers, the incredible focus on the multiplicity. gene? i just wonder, i think everybody looks the same, the anchors all look the same. i notice different levels of shoe-shining efforts, though. i made an effort. some people were more gentlemanly. i'm not going to say who did a better job. the president's shoes are excellent, i must say, and i say the men who shine their shoes the most do the best. including jack kennedy, who started it. you laugh. you take this too lightly, howard. >> no, i'm not. >> let's get to the substance here. >> my shoes are shined.

>> is the president selling too much, the same product, without any success? >> well, if you look at it, you know, you could say maybe he's overexposed. but i think this works for him. i think what he did was dominate the news cycle, and get his message out, and when he's getting his message out, that means his opponents are not getting their message out. so you know, it's kind of odd that the president -- >> is this blackening the skies with airplanes? let's look at lindsey graham. because lindsey graham is pretty funny. here's what he said on sunday. making fun of the president for doing somewhat tube time but not enough back room time. here he is. lindsey graham of south carolina. >> when he came to the house, he was very combative, i thought. we're not bickering. he accused people of demagoguery who objected to his plan, of basically accused people of lying about certain aspects of his plan.

he says, if you want to bicker, forget it. if you want to sit down and talk -- i've always wanted to sit down and talk. the president is selling something, and people, quite frankly, are not buying. he has been on everything but the food channel. >> that was a pretty good line, howard, everything but the food channel. i think he went on to take a little bigger shot at him. somebody once told a friend of mine, it was a woman, her mother always said, don't make yourself too available. too available. is that his problem right now? >> no, i don't think so. i sort of agree with gene. it's a little bit of radar-jamming here. i've talked to democrats -- democrats on both the house and the senate here from my perch in pittsburgh with my well-shined shoes, and they said, look, better that he's on there than democratic critics. the problem for the president has been, they would have put all of his democratic critics on the sunday shows to take pot shots. that's number one. number two, he's trying to show that he's trying, because he's going to have to go to the left wing of his party, i think, on both wings of his party, and say, look, i'm trying to get something done.

i'm showing the flag doing it. and i think he wants to put pressure on the finance committee to send the senate. because if this bill is going to get killed, it's going to get killed in the senate finance committee. did he hurt his own credibility? no. did all of the people hosting the sunday shows -- >> oh, i get it. you are so skilled. this is an interesting point. you're saying that what the president is doing is putting sweat equity into this to the point that his own party members will be afraid to go after a president who is buckled down so heavily on this, put so many chips on the table that they now know they can't break with him. >> exactly. >> that's been -- this is brinksmanship. >> it is. >> and it's going back -- you're not willing to destroy -- >> everybody in on this. >> will that work with a ben nelson of omaha, nebraska, who h has his own politics? will it work with the blanch lincoln of arkansas who has her own politics? >> i think it ought to work with the center -- >> why will it work for some in politics to worry about? >> well, it ought to work

because if the democrats are going to go down in 2010 or 2012, who's going to lose? it's going to be the ones -- >> that's the basic argument the president makes, if i lose, you lose. let's look at the president. here he is with his david gregory version of sunday television. this is yesterday. >> i've sent a clear signal, and i've tried to maintain an approach that says, look, we can have some serious disagreements, but at the end of the day i'm assuming you want the best for america like i do. >> you get a lot of air time too, though. >> well, i do occupy a pretty special seat at the moment. but i do think that, look, i mean, let's face it. if you look at the news cycle over the last week, you know, it hasn't been the sensible people who, you know, very deliberately talk about the important issues that we face as a country. that's not the folks who have gotten a lot of coverage. >> okay. let me try something by gentlemen, because we talk a lot, and i don't want to get off

channel with the american people. howard and gene, here's my question. if approximate you go to the average person in this country who's got their own problems. whatever, they're middle class, working class, whatever, they're worried about the economy. they're worried about their kids not being able to get jobs, they're worried about holding on to their own jobs, they're worried about their lack of savings. they remember having more, don't have as much now, worried about their home values going down. these are real concerns of real people. isn't there a disconnect between those real concerns of real people, the economy, and the president going on television and selling this health care thing that isn't what they're thinking about? isn't he off channel? >> here's what i think the disconnect is. i think the white house still hasn't driven home the message it's trying to get over which is, you may not think your health care is in danger. you may think it's fine. but your premiums are going up much faster than your salary. they have doubled in the last few years. >> yeah, but people worry about a larger question. >> and your health care is in

jeopardy. now, that's the message they're trying to get across. >> okay, howard, i'm going to try with you. is the president on the wrong channel here? shouldn't he be focusing on the economy, and the economy and the economy, stupid, and saying, by the way, one of the ways we can help this economy is to get this health care bill through? in other words, get on the channel the people are on, which is worrying about the economy, not his pet project? >> right. >> a lot of people may say he wants the trophy, i just want to hold on to my job. i wonder if he is off. you may agree with gene. >> no, i agree -- i said i think that's a danger, chris, and viewed from the vantage point of pittsburgh, definitely so. i mean, he's popular here but people aren't quite getting the connection between the gamesmanship going on inside the beltway and constant references to himself. you know, it's very interesting about obama. he uses the word "i" a lot, which was good. because it helped him get elected, because as he said, you know, we were the change we have been waiting for. but if he makes it sound too much like a political victory as opposed to the victory, a victory for average working people, then he's definitely in trouble.

and if they get to thinking, along with jay rockefeller, from right next door in west virginia, that this bill is going to hurt health insurance plans for steel workers and coal minors, et cetera, then the president has got himself some trouble, and he better watch out for it. whether you call it a tax or whatever you're going to call it, people are going to be aware of that. they're sort of -- it's an odd thing. they want change, but they're also in a conservative mood here, because they have lost so much else, they're worried about losing their health care short term, not long term. >> gene? >> i think maybe we have hit on another new axiom which is not just shine your shoes but use the word, "you," rather than the word "i" or "we," say this is about you. >> exactly. i just wonder whether he has lost that magic synchronicity he had with the people he had a year ago.

knowing we didn't like the war in iraq, knowing we didn't like bush and cheney. and now trying to talk about something that's his focus, like precious bodily fluids in the movie -- >> chris, the problem -- >> he does this sort of thing. his numbers go up. the one thing he is really out of step with public opinion on is afghanistan. and that's a big problem. >> i'm just wondering, you both think -- you think he's talking to the american people on their level? >> yeah. >> okay. i think he may have lost the channel for a while. thank you, gene robinson, howard fineman. we'll be right back. we have the "politics fix" coming up. up next, by the way, the bill clinton tapes. fascinating stuff here. an absolute gem about a drunken boris yeltsin. wait until you catch this. here is the head of the russian federation flagging a cab in the middle of the night, lotto, trying to find a place in washington where they sell pizza at 3:00 in the morning. this is a head of a government? let's stick around for "the sideshow." 's the problem? these are hot. we're shipping 'em everywhere.

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back to "hardball." time for "the sideshow." what a great "sideshow" tonight. first up, was borris bad enough? the clinton tapes on the account of the clinton presidency based on dozens of secret interviews with bill clinton while he was president. in the book bill clinton gives us a great inside account of the late russian leader borris yeltsen during a 1995 trip to washington. here it is, the sugar plum. president clinton had received notice of a major predawn security alarm when secret service agents discovered yetsin alone on pennsylvania avenue, dead drunk, clad in his underwear yelling for a taxi. yeltsin slurred his words in a loud argument with the baffled agents. he did not want to go back into blair house where he was staying. he wanted a taxi to go out for pizza. i asked what became of the standoff. well, clinton said, shrugging, he got his pizza.

how i look at it, this guy stood up to the red army, standing on a tank back in august of 1991, and as far as i'm concerned he ended the cold war, then and there. boris yeltsin, whatever his problems with alcohol, was one of the truly significant men of modern times. i was at my grade school reunion this weekend up at st. christophers in philadelphia, by the way, and a classmate of mine, way back in 1954, jeannie budard, who was the coolest girl in the class at the time, said she remembered when sister told us that soviet dictator joseph stollen had just died and that we say a prayer together. she remember me defiantly declaring i would pray for a killer. she was worried my out loud defiance at the time, i was 9 at the time, would get her whole class in trouble. this is about barack and michelle, the new president and the first lady has it, that, quote, michelle sided with those who felt that hillary clinton

would make a better secretary of state than a vice president. quote, this is from michelle, do you, he quotes her telling her husband at one point, really want bill and hillary clinton just down the hall from you in the white house? could you live with that? that is michelle obama advising her husband. barack obama against naming hillary clinton his vice president. well, time for tonight's "big number." the so-called values voters that held their big conference here had a 2012 straw vote over the weekend in washington that pitted presidential hopefuls like mitt romney and sarah palin, mike huckabee and tim pawlenty against one another. mike huckabee, with 28% of the vote. romney, pay lynn and pawlenty were bunched in approximate around 12% a piece. huckabee, the top presidential pick among self-described values voters with 28% of their vote. tonight's vastly "big number." up next, john edwards may be close to admitting that he fathered a child with rielle

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i'm milissa rehberger. wasn't all. and games as president obama taped an appearance on the david letterman show this evening. the president said unemployment will continue to be a big problem for at least another year and said decisions on sending more troops to afghanistan will have to wait until the pentagon has a clear strategy in place. federal officials using the terror-related arrest of an afghan national and new york city moms who remind americans about the vulnerability about u.s. transit systems. najibullah zazi may have been involved in a plot to carry backpack bombs on to subway trains in new york. heavy thunderstorms in the

southeast killed at least six people including three toddlers. two other people, a mother and toddler are missing. another line of storms right now. authorities are warning people to stay off the roads unless travel is absolutely necessary. back to "hardball." john edwards is back in the news, like it or not, thanks to a "new york times" article that revealed the details of a book proposal by a former aide. here's part of it. he wrote that mr. edwards once calmed an anxious rielle, that's his girlfriend, rielle hunter, promising after his wife died he would marry her in a rooftop ceremony in new york with an appearance by the dave matthews band. that's rather elaborate. had a bombshell affair.

how did his reckless and running effect the 2000 race? that's our question tonight, and could edwards be punished for trying to cover up the affair? joining me the "washington post" anne kornblut who covered the edwards' campaign in all its glory and david corn, difficult man at best. washington bureau chief for "mother jones" magazine and columnist for politicsdaily.com. i want to go to you on the reporting end. how significant -- i'm looking at the results of the iowa caucus, he got 30% to obama's 38%, to senator clinton's 29%. he was in the pack. was he spoiler that helped obama win in iowa and therefore the whole thing? >> the clinton campaign argues that. they feel if mainstream reporters had taken the story seriously when it was actually happening it would have affected the outcome. >> they knew about this poop. >> sure, he denied any of the earlier rumors and there was no evidence that we had. at that point. >> the campaign helped obama by keeping the story quiet about edwards? >> but from a numerical standpoint, i think you could

argue that the people -- it could have split evenly. i think the voters who went for edwards could have easily gone either -- >> bottom line -- he had an affair with someone -- a child was about to be born that was his, and he's going to admit it, and, therefore, if this had all happened and this guy was the nominee, there would have been a real calamity for the dems. >> that would have been the nightmare scenario if he succeeded, which he didn't. if you look at the iowa numbers which was the big turning point for barack obama, his voters, edwards' voters would have had to broken 2-1 for hillary for her to win that campaign. win iowa, and stop barack obama. and a lot of the other big races down the road, colorado, virginia, wisconsin. barack obama won by big margins. i don't think there's very much of a case to be made that he took more votes from hillary clinton than from barack obama. you could look at it as both he and barack obama were the anti-hillary candidates since she was the leading candidate in the beginning, the establishment

candidate. and so, you know, these -- >> okay. can you tell, when you cover somebody like john edwards, i noticed when we covered him -- i can't read minds, but when i covered him in chapel hill, we did a big town hall meeting with him, i sensed there was something going on. but it could be he had a headache, could be worried about something that had to do with this. but i sensed there was some cloud over him. i don't know, did you sense this by watching, interviewing him? >> there were two occasions when all of us kind of looked at each other and said there was something not right here. >> about him. >> well, and about them as a couple. one was when she announced her breast cancer returned, they stood apart from each other. but i traveled with them to new hampshire -- >> what was the broken rib have to do with them standing far apart? >> he didn't hug her, because the last time he hugged her, she had been very fragile. i traveled with them to new hampshire in the summer of 2007, and i saw her at one point go of off by herself and sit looking off into the woods. we were on this trip. and i thought, wow, that's really sad, she is obviously sick. but in hindsight, these moments look as though there is something going on between them.

but obviously it wasn't enough for us to call them on it. >> it's hard to say it seems strange -- >> running for president is a strange thing. all sorts of -- you know, you're doing this with your wife having cancer. there was a lot of reason for him to look -- >> what's out these days, if you have a child out of wedlock with someone who is not your wife, does that blow your presidential chances? i don't know anymore what's in and what's out. you're laughing. is that a deal-breaker? >> i wouldn't suggest trying it. >> is that a deal-breaker? >> i think it probably is a deal-breaker. >> ann, can you say it's a deal-breaker? >> yes. >> but john edwards violated every basic rule of crisis management. which is when you have something like this, you get out as much of a story as you can all at once. he has turned this into a long -- what is it, a year-and-a-half long soap opera now? >> here he is last year on "night line" regarding paternity. here he is talking about it. >> i know that it's not possible that this child could be mine, because of the timing of events. so i know it's not possible.

>> well here's "the new york times" reporting, quote, associates of john edwards say in interviews he is considering declaring he is, in fact, the father of miss hunter's 19-month-old daughter, something he once flatly asserted in a television interview was not possible. david? >> that's the point. if he had just come clean then -- >> you admitted a minute ago he would have been finished. >> that would have always been done, but people wouldn't hate him as much now. which is something this guy still has. he's a young, smart, vibrant guy. decades ahead of him. what is he going to do with his wife? >> there is a story, that he goes to restaurants in chapel hill, a beautiful place to be anyway, and people don't come over to say hi, how are you doing? >> the kennedy funeral, people all come up and talk to elizabeth. it's a very bad position to be in. >> well, he went on the apology tour a few months ago, calling north carolinians. begging -- >> what does this say to us about the press corps that we get so excited over someone like him. i remember in 2004 when he gave hot speeches in iowa and he was a barn burner. you walk in the room there were

200 or 300 people in there. they would go wild. maybe it was in front of a jury, good in a couple hundred people. it was working, ann. weren't you taken with it? didn't you think he had the stuff? >> he did. and certainly elizabeth did. and everyone thought -- >> his wife thought he had the stuff. >> she too, they were both charismatic, seemed like this perfect couple. gone through tragedy and survived. >> we look at the surface, how handsome, how well-spoken, what a great popular message he has and all of this going on. >> it's not superficial. these are real bona fide talents and skills. he has. he's a smart guy. i like the stand on his issues. but when it comes to people's personal lives, you never know. and, you know, the press con vetted and people around him thought about these things. he thought about this with bill clinton during the hillary clinton campaign, but you never know for sure. this is as bad as it gets. >> this is the old question. if it doesn't show, why is it important to talk about ever? why is it important? you say the guy is a dead letter, because of having a child to a woman who is not his wife.

if it's not relevant to his public life, then why is he a dead letter? >> in some countries -- in france, mitter ran had a daughter with another woman, and that was widely known, it just wasn't talked about, never stopped him from becoming prime minister. a lot of places it's not a dead letter. but in america, where we have a puritan sense, as well as a purian -- >> do you agree with that? >> i think that -- >> you want to take the french model? >> i don't think there is anything wrong with the french model. let me put it that way. >> i don't know if you're willing to stand by that. >> well, i would have to think about it. the level -- the level of moral turpitude is -- >> well, when we start getting into latin words, we're in trouble. turpitude. anne kornblut, you know he was dead all along and you covered up for him. >> what i want to know is, where -- where is the dave matthews band, what do they have to say about this, and are they still thinking -- >> well, he was promising this girl not only a rooftop -- first of all, "a" a marriage and he

had the entertainment figured out. strange guy. i guess that's what seduction is. thank you, david corn. this is a little embarrassing we were having this conversation. but we'll move on. up next, the white house is telling the governor of new york, a democrat, not to run for election next time because he would lose to rudy giuliani. that seems to be the message. is rudy coming? is it smart politics for obama to be big footing in candidate races taking sides in primaries? who's he think he is? or 100 pringles. both cost the same, but only the pringles superstack can makes everything pop! ♪ ♪ whoa, oh, oh, oh, oh ♪ ♪ hey, hey [ male announcer ] the choice is yours... 100 of these or 100 pringles. same cost but a lot more fun. everything pops with the pringles superstack can! if you're using other moisturizing body washes,

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we've got some special guests here that i want to acknowledge in addition to jill. first of all, a wonderful man, the governor of the great state of new york, david paterson, is in the house. your shy and retiring attorney general andrew cuomo is in the house. andrew is doing great work, enforcing laws that need to be enforced. >> of course, that was president obama today being nice to governor david paterson in new york, and perhaps nicer to attorney general andrew cuomo who wants his job.

does the president really want attorney general andrew cuomo. does the president want the governor to step aside in 2010? is he smart to get in these primary fights as well as other parts of the country. we have michael and dominick. mr. carter, thank you for coming on. the president is playing big foot sending operatives out there like he did to tell david paterson, the governor of new york, who got the job through success, to go. he's telling people in different states what he wants done in primaries, it seems. >> number one, that's a risky strategy. just listen to the amount of words that were spent concentrating on mr. cuomo as opposed to the sitting governor. the latest information that we have, chris, according to a white house administration official, they told us that

there was no conversation between president obama and governor paterson but did not deny, chris, and this is important, that the white house is concerned about the political situation in new york state and that those concerns -- >> that's denying something no one asserted. the assertion was he sent his political operative to albany to make the case for him. that's denying -- that's not denying anything. that's just bs. let me go here to michael. reminds me of the british taking over mad men when they seem to fire roger sterling. your name is not on the chart. you wonder what's going on. who is this guy to come in and tell people, governor paterson, you're not governor. i like this guy cuomo because he can beat giuliani and you can't. >> when that series ends, peggy will run the stewart cooper ad

agency. >> the president acting like the brits coming in giving orders is stunning. reminds me of the new phrase in politics which is called transactional politics. no more relationship politics. you're friends of the people you need to deal with that day. forget yesterday. your thoughts, michael? specter had his arms all over him the other day. this guy falls in love with new people quickly. he finds new friends to meet his new needs. >> you could argue that he has an obligation to step forward in these sort of circumstances and to do what's right for the democratic party. in this case, you know that paterson's numbers are in the tank. what's best for the democratic party? he embrace cuomo. >> i know the motive. the question is the method. let me go back to dominick. what do you think of the

president of the united states going into new york state and get out of the way and i'm calling shots and decide hog will be the nominee of the democratic party for governor next year. that's a hell of a statement. >> it's a strong statement and a risky strategy. you can make powerful enemies that way. keep in mind for the obama white house, the 800-pound gorilla in the room is rudy giuliani. they don't want rudy giuliani to come in and take over the governor's mansion. that's bottom line. handwriting son the wall for a governor paterson. he's looking at 70% of the state's residents not wanting him to run for re-election. >> dare i point to the obvious patte pattern. rudy giuliani runs against david paterson and they think he'll beat him. is this rudy running against an african-american again exploiting social rifts that come about in these situations in big states? is that what's going on? >> i don't think that's the

case. i think bottom line is residents -- i'm trying to figure out a nice way to say this. david paterson has not sat well with the voters of the state. i don't think it's a racial component in this. the democrats just don't want to lose the state house and they don't -- >> does rudy have the stones to run against andrew cuomo? >> that's a good question. >> i asked you, dominick. do you have the answer? >> that's why you're asking me. giuliani considering it, who knows. if paterson is the nominee, he'll probably run. >> we'll be right back with michael and dominick and they'll tell us whether rudy has the stuff to take on andrew cuomo. you're watching "hardball." ciou? ciou? v8 garden broccoli. from campbell's. velvety, delicious. campbell's v8 soups.

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let me ask but this "letterman" thing tonight. we've been comparing tonight with the first night he was inaugurated with all of those dances he did in every one of those ballrooms one after another. where will this end up this marathon dancing of his with different talk show hosts? >> i think -- >> he started with you, by the way, i think. >> it looks like saturation but there are so many fragmented markets. he probably did all of the sunday morning shows except fox because he didn't want to

alienate anybody. you and i watch all of this. everyone who watches all of it, when they don't. people watching "letterman" tonight don't watch sunday morning shows. you know, i can make the argument for him he has to do different outreach to hit every cross section of the populous. >> dominick, what do you say? bigger question. >> i agree with mike. for all of the shows the president did yesterday, perhaps he'll have a bigger audience tonight on l"letterman." he shows us the humorous side. he takes all of this heated rhetoric as it relates to health care some of it with some claims are racial and he brings down the temperature tonight. he puts it in a way that everyone can understand. >> i think you got the point there which is if people are saying terrible things about you not being an american and not being the guy they like, all that stuff, you got to show up and prove that you are better than they say. you have to be there. thank you, michael.

dominick, thank you. join us again tomorrow night at 5:00 and 7:00 eastern for more "hardball." "countdown with keith olbermann" starts right now. which of these stories will you be talking about tomorrow? the 80% solution despite 564 proposed senate amendments, the president thinks that's the overlap of agreement in all health care reform bills. he's now done 80% of all tv programs. >> the key is now just to narrow those differences and if i don't feel like it is a good deal for the american people, then i won't sign a bill. >> if there's 80% agreement, there's also 20% disagreement and we all know who the national distributor is for disagreement. >> it's really time for the president to hit the reset button. >> you think the plan is dead? >> i think it is. >> good thing boehner says obama is not a socialist even though he's disagreeing with himself. where the military industrial

complex eisenhower validated again in afghanistan. >> i am now going to take all of this information and we're going to test whatever resources we have against our strategy. >> the president hesitates on more troops to afghanistan so somebody promptly leaks the forecast of the nato commander in afghanistan. no new troops equals likely failure. the ethical failure of the year, the protests in d.c. completely organic except for this person here egging on the crowd to make more noise. she happens to be a fox news channel associate producer. how did abc, cbs, msnbc and cnn miss this story? we covered it. we got out of your way after we saw that you were fabricating it. and the value summit on friday gave a media courage award and no one allowed