which we'll address in a moment. all of which, of course, democrats were against all of that. i didn't hear any crying from them over them overreaching at that particular point. now president obama and the democrats have said we will work with any republican who is serious about reforming health care. today in the markup for the bipartisan baucus bill that was -- hadn't gotten any support from any republicans, in fact, not even one. the righties offered nothing but get this, what i call garbage amendments and partisan rhetoric. here's what they wanted to do, here's what they did do. let's see now. we've got texas republican john cornyn and his buddy orrin hatch from utah. you know what they're concerned about? a.c.o.r.n. ask yourself the question tonight, folks, you know, we really got to get this health care thing done, but we're really concerned about a.c.o.r.n., too. let's put an a.c.o.r.n. amendment on health care reform. cut me some slack.

this is why americans get frustrated with washington. again, of course, there's senator john ensign of nevada who offered an amendment of czars. we have to reel in the czars on health care, don't we? this is all part of the stall game in september. they are trying amendment this bill to death. their motives are completely transparent. listen to the republican senators repeat the same old talking points. this is today. >> artificial deadlines forced us to where we are today. it seems to me that some people in the senate would rather have it done right now instead of being done right. apparently in some circles there's a belief that passing a bill quickly is more important than getting it right. i regret that we ran out of time. >> unfortunately, due to outside pressures and arbitrary timelines faced by the chairman, we are now considering a bill that once again proposes more spending, more government, and more taxes. >> step back.

take a deep breath. start over on a truly bipartisan bill. >> i've been in the senate for 35, 40 years. we've got to move slow. now, remember, max did say he worked 100 hours on this. folks, they just want to talk in delay and hit the restart button all the way to 2010. that's what they want to do so they tell the american people, democrats can't govern, can't get it done. president obama has said he wants a bill this year. i hope he sticks to that deadline. what's wrong with deadlines? if you're in public and private business, does your boss come in and give you a deadline? you've got to get it done. i hope harry reid is serious with this reconciliation process and doesn't back off it. get your cell phones out. i want to know what you think about this tonight. do you think dirty harry is ready to pull the trigger? now, we've got to call him dirty harry just for the "dirty harry"

movies. is he ready to pull the trigger on reconciliation? text a for yes, b for no. we'll bring you the results later on in the show. what's happening in the senate finance committee when it comes to the democrats? joining me now, senator jay rockefeller of west virginia, member of that committee. senator, good to have you with us tonight. >> thanks, ed. >> we're going to come out with polling numbers at the bot toll of the hour that is going to, i think, reflect there might be some missing of the messages that's going on with the american public. the guaranteed competition for the private sector, which is the public option, you're coming forward with an amendment in the senate finance committee with a public option even though max baucus said today it's not going to be in that bill. tell us what's going on. >> well, it's interesting, ed, that the mayo clinic, which the people who have been for the co-op approach and against the public option approach, which is the real sort of what i call the adam smith approach, really

forced competition among the insurance companies who are eating us for lunch. the mayo clinic came out for public option. that's news. that's breaking news. that's big, and that's a stunning development. we're not actually doing amendments yet. we're just doing a walkthrough and asking questions. what i was focusing on was the children's health insurance plan which gets killed under the 14.3 million children are going to lose their benefits unless there's improvements in the plan which i think there will be. also the way you set up medicare. that's the medpac think which is garbledy speak. it's the idea you take the decisions away from the congress and lobbyists and give it to the health care professionals because that would help seniors get better coverage. >> senator, you said the mayor clinic. when they say they're for the public option, does that mean

they are advocating an independently run government-administered program that would compete against the private sector? be very clear on that. >> i have to be -- i have to assume that because i don't know that because i just heard they're for it. if you're for the public option it sounds to me you have to be pretty much what you said. >> okay. now, that's going to be -- >> good news, ed. smile. >> okay. i'm smiling. and the reason why i'm smiling is because the president has repeatedly used the mayo clinic in minnesota as, you know, an example on the campaign trail. on the stump. talking about this saying we've got to get all clinics to this level. now, they have the best doctors in the world, do they not, senator, at the mayo clinic? >> yes. they have relatively few low-income patients that come to them like a lot of other large urban hospitals. in other words, they get high costs paying then not so many people who have to go into their

emergency rooms. >> how much division is there on the senate finance committee about this particular issue? >> i'm not going to jinx it. i have a feeling that the pub li lick option is picking up some support. i'm not going to jinx it by making anything declarative, even on your show, ed. especially on your show. >> that's where i want you to do it. >> i know that. that's why i'm not going to do it. it certainly isn't any worse and it may be better. it's really a public relations problem because the word "public" is getting in the way of senators' interpretation of what the public option really does which is actually kind of an adam smith-time amendment. it's a good republican amendment, actually. >> now, finally, have you seen in the last few days the republicans shift at all in, you know, kind of lighten up a little bit on possibly going along with some democratic thinking on guaranteed competition for the private

sector? do you see any movement at all here? are they still playing hardball with you? >> yeah, hardball. hardball. that's what you're playing, you see. that's the name of your program. that's what the republicans are playing with us on public option and on most other things, too. they just don't want to yield. i mean, they -- look, ed, as you said 1,000 times, i've never been for health care reform and they're not starting now. >> senator, good to have you with us tonight. i appreciate your time. >> thanks, ed. >> senator jay rockefeller on "the ed show." as i said earlier the righties are already launching a pr campaign against reconciliati reconciliation. here is the predictable response from the minority leader in the senate, mitch mcconnell. >> if that option is chosen, i think there will be a severe negative and, frankly, appropriate reaction on the part of the american people. doing it is a huge mistake. if will be widely noted by the american people. there will be an overwhelming

negative reaction throughout the country to choosing this kind of device to try to circumvent the normal rules of the senate. >> did you hear that, folks? getting people some health care is going to really make a lot of people upset. joining me now, another member of the senate finance committee, senator ron wyden of oregon. good to have you with us tonight. >> thanks for having me back. >> we talked a lot about choice. you have an amendment out there that would allow employees to shop around the health insurance policies. to shop around for them. what kind of shopping are we talking about? i mean -- >> ed, we're talking about the kind of shopping that members of congress do. what my amendment is all about is that this provides a way for the typical consumer to hold the insurance companies accountable. it puts the consumer in the driver's seat. it forces the insurance

companies to compete for the consumers' business. the president always says, and i really like it, you can keep the coverage you have. what i want to do is make sure is if you don't like the coverage you have you can go out and hold the insurance companies accountable. if they're ripping you off with your current coverage, you can go get something else just the way members of congress can. >> from the insurance industry? >> absolutely. >> what's that going to do? >> ed, ed, either a public option or a private option has to have choice. if you're going to hold these insurance companies accountable, choice is the coin of the realm. i've said on this show that i am very open to public option. we had a kind of a break through today. the mayo clinic, for example, said it was okay if you did the public ogs with an approach like members of congress want. that's exactly the kind of thing i think we ought to be doing. it's in line with my bill. we're on the march now for the

public option. >> senator, in your bill, you want to involve the states, and i'll be right upfront with you. i don't trust jindal in louisiana, i don't trust haley barbour in mississippi. i sure as hell don't trust tim pawlenty in minnesota if they're going to be part of administering some part of a plan that is supposed to be good for me. you're trusting the republicans here, ron. that's what you're doing. >> ed, ed, i'm going with the model for the only bill that stops insurance rip-offs. when i came to the united states congress we found seniors getting ripped all the time with policies to supplement their medicare. i wrote this law on the basis of hardball insurance reform that stopped the rip-offs that seniors were facing with their medicare supplements. we can do that again. it trained the pump. seniors don't get ripped off any longer. that's exactly the model i'm using for our free choice. >> okay. now, is there any chance at all of something being put into the

senate finance committee where a public option would be there? do you think you've gone as far as you can go in senate finance and this bill is just not going to have it? >> i think the odds got a lot better today. when you have a prestigious medical organization like mayo clinic saying they could accept a public option if it was like what members of congress get, and that's who my legislation does, that's a real breakthrough. the mayo clinic is saying, categorically, they want to get a good deal for their patients. it's time for patients to be able to hold insurance companies accountable. that's what we did with seniors when we stopped the rip-offs and the policies sold to supplement their medicare. we can do it again. as far as i'm concerned this mayo clinic development today where they said they'd support a public option if it would set up the way members of congress get their health care, i think that's a big development. >> i think it's a great development for the democrats. the republicans will find

something wrong with the mayo clinic between now and tomorrow night's show. >> be sure the status quo caucus led by insurance lobbyists who are slicing a fat hog, they're going to fight us. we picked up momentum today. >> senator, good to have you on with us. coming up, bill clint thinks president obama is wise to step back an re-think his options in afghanistan. i think we ought to just opt out of there. the highest ranking former military officer ever elected to the congress, admiral joe sestak joins me next. plus, full-time psycho talker glen beck doesn't discriminate when it comes to hate. wait until you hear what he has to say about john mccain. this is a reversal, isn't it? and plaxico's in the clink. if you're a star receiver and you shoot yourself, you can go to jail. if you're the vice president of the united states and you shoot your buddy in the face, heck, you can get a get out of jail free card. steven a. smith is going to be

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when it comes to afghanistan the president is getting it from all directions. the republicans want him to double down. the base wants him to get the heck out of there. secretary gates is telling everybody just take a deep breath on this. we'll get into the war room on this with three star admiral in just a moment.

welcome back to "the ed show." it's decision time for president obama, the war in afghanistan, general mcchrystal. the president's top commander there wants more troops now. he says if there's not a troop surge within the next year, the war is likely to fail. the obama administration is

saying they need more time to review the strategy options that are out there. i say it is time. we're in a no-win situation over there and it's time to reduce the force and change the presence. joining me now, democratic congressman joe sestak of pennsylvania, retired as three-star admiral in the navy and also dealing with navy intelligence. congressman, there's a lot of options on the table. i know you've got some strategies for afghanistan. what should we be doing in your opinion? >> i think we have to make it very clear what our goal is and our primary goal is the eradication of that safe haven about al qaeda. the al qaeda who hit us on 9/11 that's inside pakistan, and second, setting the conditions for redeploying out of afghanistan with a probability that the al qaeda will not go back there. that's a strategy, ed, that's going to take an approach that isn't counterterrorism. it's a counterinsurgency and it

may involve a few more troops in the nearer term because it's spiraled so far south downward that gains the trust of the population. because the taliban is about 20,000. >> yeah. am i hearing you, interpreting you tonight as saying you would support the president if he were to commit more troops to afghanistan before the end of the year which would go along with the general's request? >> if it is focused upon the mission, the two goals i stated. with clear conditions of an exit strategy that is focused not on nation building but is focused only on about 30% of the 20,000 taliban that have been al qaedaized and making them irrelevant. that is a requirement for the increase in troops. if he does that i will do it because we rely upon the afghanistan military to build itself up after we let this spiral so far down there.

because when i was on the ground there early in that war, we had it in our hands. we can't rely upon them to bring it back up, not when the al qaeda we are after are the ones who struck us. we have to protect ourselves in the future. >> okay. you want to narrow the mission. you want to broaden the regional commitment. you want to get more people involved. focusing on community development, is that not nation building, joe? >> it is not to get them up to the level that at once was envisioned back in 2001 of the rule of law, of having a central government that is not corrupt. extends its influence across the nation. no, we can't accept that there are some war lords who are opposed to the al qaeda-ized taliban. that there are some taliban that may be acceptable. it gives local governance and some type of economic job opportunity to individuals. that's about it. >> finally, when the president says he needs more time to assess the situation, do you

understand that? are you on board with that? how soon does he have to move on this? >> i don't think he has a lot of time, ed, because i do agree with the general. when the chairman of joint chiefs of staff said two years ago, in iraq we do what we must, in afghanistan we do what we can, that strategy has let it go so far down that if he waits much longer, because of potentially he wants to deal with health care here, alone, then i think we are in danger of having to put too many troops in there where there's a minimum level that may be acceptable now. this cannot be an open-ended commitment. we have an opportunity. we should take advantage of that last opportunity we have. >> congressman joe sestak, thanks for your time and expertise tonight. >> thank you, ed. >> you bet. coming up, we all know sleaze bag glen beck thinks president obama has a deep-seeded hatred for white people, but you'll never guess who he says would be even worse for the country.

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and transfers the difference from your checking to savings account. it's one of the many ways we make saving money in tough times a whole lot easier. welcome back to "the ed show." time for "psycho talk." another dandy tonight. the beck ster. he's got to have a hell of a home movie collection. after months of just going after president obama and riling up

the right wingers on the verge of violence, he comes up with this one. >> how about this? i think john mccain would have been worse for the country than barack obama. how's that in. >> the beck ster was just out there saying this stuff to get a rise out of people. okay. we laugh at it. yesterday he says mccain would have been worse than obama? but just this summer he was calling president obama a racist. >> this president, think, has exposed himself as a guy over and over and over again who has a deep-seeded hatred for white people or the white culture. i don't know what it is. >> john mccain's got to feel really good right now, huh? back in april, drama queen glen got in touch with his pyromania side to protest what the president was doing. he continued to pour gasoline over a guest and compared

obama's policies to setting an average american on fire. what do you think of mccain? what would he have done? beck is nothing but a high-rent entertainer. maybe he ought to join twinkle toes tom delay on "dancing with the stars" because this stuff is ridiculous, despicable, and "psycho talk." coming up, former new york giant wide receiver plaxico burress is going to spend two years in the slammer for shoots himself. new york mayor mike bloomberg want the to throw the book at him. i think he went too far. steven a. smith in the thousands talk about that. our latest nbc news/"wall street journal" poll is hot off the presses. the message on public option is simply not getting through. activia light! delicious, fat free, and above all... the only one that has bifidus regularis and is clinically proven to help regulate

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welcome back to "the ed

show." our nbc news/"wall street journal" poll has been released moments ago. here are the headlines. democrats in congress don't seem to get it. their numbers are dropping. i think it's because of all this wish she washy stalling over health care. people want to see them leading and getting it done. the american people don't get it either. they're confused about the public option. after all the talk about health care, the message is still just not getting through the way the dems want it to get through. take a look at these two back-to-back questions are just a dandy. now, question number 30 in this survey, how important is a choice of public plan run by the government? in a health care proposal? all right? 73% say extremely or quite ornt. 23% say, eh, not that important. the next question, question 31, do you favor or oppose the creation of a public plan run by

the government? 46% favor it. 48% oppose it. what? these are the same questions. come on, folks. in question 30, 73% of the people saw it's extremely important and in question 31, 48% say, eh, they're against it. let me bring in john harwood, cnbc's chief washington correspondent and political writer for "the new york times." it's the wrong question. we're confused as american, aren't we? >> i tell you, ed, i have a running debate in my head over 30 years of covering politics. of the american people and voters really wise and they really come to consider decisions or are they dumb as a wrok? every once in a while you come into a question like this where you have a direct contradiction. i don't think it means people are as dumb as a rock but means it's a complicated subject. people have a very hard time getting their minds around the particulars of these plans.

>> positive numbers for reform. 44% are concerned it won't go far enough. 48% concerned it will go too far. that number was 54% last month. what do you make of that? >> what we've seen is president obama with his pr blitz has stabilized his numbers. he hasn't radically turned anything around. he does a little bit better on the good idea/bad idea question on his plan. he's gone from minus six in the red to minus two. we're seeing that the president's got some seniors now feeling a little bit better about the plan. so you see a slight uptick on some of the questions. it's still a muddled picture out there. he's got a persuasion job to do. mostly the persuasion job is on capitol hill not with the public. >> the anti-s, the lobbyists, he's had to fight a lot. the question is, has the president beaten the town hall socialist hitler fears, the 44% those are lefties who are worried. why aren't the democrats? i guess the question i'm ask here is that has the president

been able to beat these folks back to the point where he's in positive territory? >> well, he is not entirely in positive territory on some questions. he is on others. on the bottom-line question, should have plan pass or should we keep the status quo? he's in positive territory on that. i think he has made a bit of a comeback, a bit of a rebouchbd since august but it's not dramatic. >> is he popular? >> 51% job approval. not a robust rating. one of the things we have seen consistently about obama since the beginning is people like him a lot. you get three quarters of the american people say they like him personally, but a good chunk of those don't agree with his policies and that's where the difficulty is. >> he's got on attracting about him. people do like him. last night, letterman did better than all of the news shows put together. rather unusual, don't you think? >> did you realize he was black before the election? >> i thought he was. before the election they were saying he wasn't black enough. i thought there was confusion there.

i'm glad he got it squared away last night. >> in case you were wondering i was white before the election. >> i've always had red hair, don't die it or anything. i've always been a fat guy too. what's the president's next play? i mean, what do these numbers tell the white house? >> well, i think the white house has got to keep pushing ahead. they've got a favorable legislative situation. the finance committee is moving. i think really the action is less in public opinion than in passing this thing on the hill. if they pass it i think then you're going to see some of f the polls move on the success if he does pass it which i think is likely. >> john harwood. let's bring in our panel tonight. democratic strategist todd webster with us and republican strategist karen hanready. we thought we'd have these two folks get after it with big eddie tonight. todd, i'll ask you first. do you think this poll, is this a wake-up call for the white house? >> i think president obama

remains incredibly popular and he remains extremely persuasive. he is the strongest spokesman and the best person to articulate what it is his message is. that's much to his credit. some of the confusion about the public plan is a smoke screen and frankly some confusion from our friends on the republican side. for 30 years the republicans said that the government -- there's nothing that the government can do, that it's inept and incompetent and the bush administration spent eight year trying to test that hypothesis. now they're saying the opposite. it's a complete rhetorical 180 saying that private industry, the insurance companies, can't possibly compete with a public option, with a government. so it's interesting to watch the conservative contortions on this, particularly when you look at the example president obama made which is that we have a robust -- the public university system in this country and we have a robust private college and private university system. much the same, we have a great u.s. postal service and, yet,

u.p.s. and fedex are able to compete and do fine. u.p.s. and fedex are not imperiled -- >> i use the postal service all the time. karen, i have to ask you now, i'm going to take the republicans at face value for what they say. they talk about waterloo, they taub about failure. these numbers that are out right now are these numbers bad enough for the president that might have the republicans stick to their guns and not come on board because they might see a crack in the armor here and maybe they see light at the end of the tunnel, that fighting obama on reform might be the best way to go? >> regarding this poll and your last conversation, these questions are almost meaningless. if you called me, if a pollster called me and said, how important is the public option? i would say it is extremely important because i completely am a posed to it. i would never say the public option is not that important to me. of course it's important. the other 73% number who say

it's extremely important and, yet, half the country, and really what these numbers show is there's been no movement in support for the president's plan or for the democrats' plan. this is a -- >> karen, that's a key point. we're still a divided country. we can roll it right back to the election. i think the numbers are still about the same, and so why not -- >> not all the numbers are the same. first of all, president obama has seen a double-digit drop in his approval numbers. so not all -- >> ahead of the last two presidents at this time. wait a minute. >> i don't think the country is split on health care based on partisanship. >> he is faring well when it comes to bush and clinton during this point in time. >> eight years in the iraq war. i wouldn't use president bush as a barometer, ed. that's not a good argument for you. >> it's a very good argument because the american people like

this guy. >> they dent like the health care policy. >> i want to know, will i guess the republican word here is embolden. will the numbers embolden the right to put their feet more in concrete than they've already done when it comes to reform? >> i don't think these numbers are going to embolden the right or the left. listen, i think the real problem is, you know, if this goes to reconciliation, you were talking about that earlier as well, it can't go to reconciliation until october 15th. that's a long ways away. the longer this thing drags out the more i think set people's opinions are where you're not -- forget republicans in congress. it's the american people. they are not being persuaded. >> what about that date, todd? i kind of like october 15th. i kind of -- we can call it a health octoberfest or something like that. i kind of like it because that means more town halls, means the president gets out there. i think he wins on the issues.

your thought? >> i think at the pace the congress is going that's not that far away. the reality is the american people don't care the process of how this thing gets done. mitch mcconnell whining about reconciliation or how it happens or doesn't. the process is meaningless. what matters is whether we can pass comprehensive health care reform that reduces cost, expands coverage and ends insurance company abuses. the only way you can to that is with a public option. we're not longer debating whether we should have health care reform. we're debating what it should look lean like. the republican position is we should do nothing, we should stand here, we're not going to support any bill. the democrats are trying to move forward and get this done. >> time is not on your side. >> we like october 15th, karen. >> time is not on your side, ed you have to