said the bureau is assisting kentucky state troopers with their investigation in this case, saying, quote, our job is to determine if there was foul play involved, and that's part of the investigation, and if there was foul play involved, whether that is related to his employment as a census worker. federal law enforcement's involvement -- may be involved here because it is a federal crime to attack a federal worker on the job or because of their job. joining us now is devlin barrett, justice department correspondent with the associated press. mr. barrett, thanks very much for joining us. >> hi, rachel. how are you? >> good. does what i have just summarized here comport with what you've been able to learn about the case so far? did i get anything wrong? are there any new details? >> no, that's a good description. and i guess what i would add to that is what investigators found at the crime scene is obviously very disturbing, and what they're going through now is trying to figure out exactly what happened to this person. >> from what we've read, it seems that the body was found on

september 12th, a couple of weeks ago. there was some local reporting at the time into what was described locally as a mysterious case. why are we hearing about it nationally now? >> i think investigators have taken great pains both at the kentucky state police and fbi to better understand exactly what happened. obviously, the details -- the few details we know at this point are very disturbing, and could feed a larger political argument if this ends up being the result of anti-government sentiment. but they don't know that for absolute certain yet. and part of what the investigator's job is to rule out any other explanation for what happened. >> and because the case has drawn the attention of federal law enforcement, because the statement by the fbi spokesman today, that's, of course, the reason this is at the top of the national newscast right now. we're all wondering if that is -- should be taken as some indication that this was a crime

related to anti-government sentiment. are you able to report anything? are you hearing anything about even circumstantial evidence in that regard? is there any way to know if even federal will you enforcement getting involved is any indication that they think that might be true? >> i don't think that federal law enforcement would still be involved a week and a half after the body was found if there wasn't still that very serious concern. and they don't have all of the answers yet, and some of the things they know they're not going to tell us because they're concerned there may be perpetrators out there they would very much like to catch. but they don't know all of these things for certain yet and part of the process we're in now is moving all of the other alternate explanations. >> when officials are tight-lipped about such circumstances, one of the ways we figure out what's going on even when they won't tell us is by how agencies behave and how one part of the government advises another part of the government to behave. has the census bureau stopped any operations or issued any

warnings to its workers as a result of this death? >> in the county where this death occurred, they have instructed their workers not to go door to door while this investigation continues. clearly, there's a great deal of concern within the census worker community in that area. and they would very much like to know exactly what happened. but investigators are not telling them a whole lot either right now. that's, again, part of the investigation they're working on. >> devlin barrett, justice department for the associated press. mr. barrett, thanks for taking the time to join us tonight. appreciate it. >> sure. we will stay on this breaking news story since more details become available. since it is just breaking nationally tonight. further details may actually become available during the course of this hour. so please do stay with us. ♪

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asleep in public and declaring war on themselves. apparently accidentally. howard fineman will join us next. paul krugman will be here in just a moment after that. stay with us. lots to come. tdd# 1-800-345-2550 he neglected to mention tdd# 1-800-345-2550 he also makes money when i lose money, tdd# 1-800-345-2550 withdraw money or do nothing with my money. tdd# 1-800-345-2550 tdd# 1-800-345-2550 what are you really buying? a shiny coat of paint? a list of features? what about the strength of the steel, the integrity of it's desi? or how it responds in extreme situations. the deeper you look, the more you see the real differences. and the more you understand what it means to own a mercedes-benz. the c-class. see your authorized

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do you want to see something that is an extreme rarity in the world of washington politics? already, hopefully this works. can we do it? hey, ta-da! what you're looking at right now next to me is say live picture. it's 9:00, 10:00 p.m. roughly on a wednesday night, and congress is currently still in session. what you see there is the senate finance committee. they are currently engaged in a heated debate over 564 separate

amendments to chairman max baucus' health care reform proposal. generally speaking when congress is working after 9:00 at night or on the weekends, there's either something really important or really tricky going on. what's happening right now in congress is the real work of trying to get health reform passed. it's not people yelling at each other in town hall meetings. it's not people yelling at the president from the floor of congress. it is roll up your sleeves, let's start legislating time. and what we can now report is that roll up your sleeves, less start legislating time is apparently a really bad time for some members of congress who are opposed health reform. it's not wearing well on them at all. the phrase "cracking under pressure" in fact comes to mind. take republican senator chuck grassley of iowa. an original member of the senate finance committee's gang of six. despite his insistence over the summer that reform would lead to the government killing old people, despite his railing against obama-care in fund-raising letters to his

constituents, senator grassley was pretty certain, he said, of one thing. he said that the idea of an individual mandate forcing every american to buy health insurance, he thought that was a pretty darn good idea. >> i think individual mandates are going to have to be accepted by a vast majority of people in congress. i believe that there is a bipartisan consensus to have individual mandates. >> a bipartisan consensus to have individual mandates. i'll support that. now, same senator. >> another area of concern is the individual mandate to purchase coverage. i've been increasingly concerned with the intrusion of -- into private lives that the individual mandate represents. >> what happened to the bipartisan consensus? you didn't even have consensus with yourself, senator. and it's not just republicans who are cracking up here. consider conservative democratic

senator kent conrad of north dakota. senator conrad has been an unbending opponent of the public option specifically, and yesterday he offered this thumb in the eye to the huge majority of democrats, people in his own party, who support a public option. >> let me just conclude for my progressive friends who believe that the only answer to getting costs under control and having universal coverage is by a government-run program, they're not government-run systems. in germany, in japan, in switzerland, in france, in belgium, all of them contain costs, have universal coverage, have very high quality care and yet are not government-run systems. >> not government-run systems? senator conrad, this is one of those times where it's like you sort of regret that americans

don't speak more foreign languages. like flthree more credits of french might have cleared this whole thing right up. as the indispensable ezra klein noted in today's "washington post" -- before i quote, all of the countries listed by senator conrad as gold stands, ezra said, all have a level of government intrusion in their systems that would make the average tea partyer wretch. in france, for instance, every legal resident of france gets their health insurance from the government. so kent conrad is citing the huge success and low cost and quality care of government-run health insurance in another country as a way to prove that we shouldn't have government-run health care here. it's like arguing that your neighbor looks awesome and is super healthy after going to the gym all year and what that means for you is you should definitely eat more tv dinners. so we've got senator grassley going to war with himself, saying he's increasingly concerned about the stuff he

himself has been advocating for. we've got senator conrad arguing against government-run health care by pointing out how awesome it is, and we've maybe got a winner in senator jim bunning, who "the washington post" reports finished up a big rant about how health reform would trample on american freedom and liberties, and then followed it up by promptly falling asleep in the hearing room. quoting from "the post" here -- spectators noticed that the senator, who had been resting his chin in his hand, had fallen fast asleep, as giggles rippled through the chamber, an aide shook bunning, who woke with a start. and, yes, they published a picture of senator bunning napping in the hearing room. roll up your sleeves legislating time on health care is not wearing well on the opponents of health reform. beyond declaring war on themselves, incoherence and public sleeping, what else have they got up their sleeves? joining us now is msnbc analyst and senior washington

correspondent and political analyst for "newsweek," howard fineman. >> hi, rachel. >> let me ask you about my premise here, the idea that there is a lot be dong to stop health care reform but there's not a lot of intellectual firepower against the arguments. they're just hoping something will stick. is that how you see it? >> yeah, i think you're right. in the case of senator grassley, for example, i think he's just going to argue whatever barack obama says tomato, chuck grassley's going to say tomatoe. it's a very serious thing. it's a point that barack obama was skeptical about a universal mandate himself, therefore, grassley was for it. now that obama, having kind of looked at all of the pieces on the checkerboard says, i think it's a good idea, grassley's against it. the common thread here is grassley being against whatever obama is proposing. >> on that specifically, a lot of liberals aren't huge fans of an individual mandate either. but that sort of makes

ideological sense in terms of what we understand about liberalism. in terms of grassley's opposition now, are conservatives really going to go to the barricades against mandates? they're going to go rally against individuals taking responsibility for their health care? isn't that what they've been arguing for? >> i think you make a very good point, and i just think they're trying to make every argument they can think of. including that one. i think the conservatives, including grassley, are worried about their own energized political base. grassley's up for re-election in iowa in 2010. he is sort of popular but not nearly as popular as he was. he's looking over his shoulder at his own right wing. that's what's happening with him. that's what's happening with all of the other republicans on that committee. >> let me ask you about something that happened in the house. house minority whip eric cantor today complained that health reform was taking up too much of the energy and time of congress. he said, we can't get anything

else done. is there something else of significance that you know that republicans want to be working on? >> no. and that was a kind of silly statement by cantor. the republicans are -- would love to take all of the rest of the year on health care as they try to kill it and don't have a big urgent agenda of their own that they're trying to pursue. they just don't. they basically with a few small glimmers of exception have been in opposition and slowdown and opposed mode using every tool at their disposal, both rhetorical and procedural. that's what barack obama and the democrats are facing. >> let me ask you a big-picture strategy question that includes the president. what do you think is the connection between the president being like flash gordon right now, and he's everywhere. he's at the u.n. he's on five sunday shows. he's on letterman. he's in pittsburgh. what's the connection to him being everywhere and this legislating that's happening on

this huge policy issue in washington? >> that's a very good question. and i don't know there's as close a relationship as barack obama and his advisers hope or think that there is. visibility will only get you so much. ubiquitousness will only get you so much. i love the flash gordon comparison. barack obama when he was a kid loved spider-man and the incredible hulk, you know. but being everywhere, being on call, that doesn't necessarily make it. what barack obama needed to be doing earlier on, in my view, is having a set of really clear, crystal clear proposals, tough proposals, one that his party backed, and then he needed to hit congress over the head with it early and repeatedly in a political campaign really against the congress. that's how have you to make this crazy congress, the way it runs these days or doesn't run, that's how you have to make it move. mere visibility won't cut it. >> howard fineman, msnbc analyst, senior washington correspondent for "newsweek." thanks for your time and your

insight tonight, howard. >> thank you, rachel. noted amateur economist, former vice presidential candidate and former half-term governor of alaska, sarah palin, delivered a long lecture in hong kong in which she said that the financial crisis could have been avoided if only wall street had, had fewer rules. if they only had been able to cut loose a little more. let wall street be wall street. nobel prize winning economist paul krugman joins us here with his views. i suspect they may be different. that's coming up next. but, first, one more thing about health reform and what is stopping it. last night we led with reporting about congressman mike ross of arkansas, the leading blue dog conservative democratic voice in the house against the public option and other elements of health reform. reporting by pro publicia reveal thad congressman ross got what looks like a way-too-sweet deal when he sold properties and a business to a drugstore chain. the implication was maybe congressman ross' anti-reform

stance was more in keeping with what the drugstore chain wanted than his constituents wanted. congressman ross has not responded to our requests to appear on the show, which are absolutely sincere. he did release statements attacking pro publicia for doing the reporting, calling on the drugstore chain to release their records about it and telling the arkansas gazette today about the drugstore chain with whom he did the property deal. he said, quote, they're not into politics. they're into running a successful business. my being in congress had absolutely nothing to do with it. they're not into politics. anyway could have gotten a sweet deal like this from that drugstore chain. that company doesn't care at all what happens in terms of health care. uh-oh. a couple of years ago right after congressman ross got paid all of that sweet, sweet, sweet deal money for that property, the head of the drugstore chain that paid him the money told "the arkansas democrat gazette,"

same newspaper, quote, universal health care will ruin our health care in america. there will be long lines. they won't be able to get treated. potential doctors will be afraid to go to medical school. there will be an outflux of doctors. in my opinion, it's not broke, and don't fix it. that's the head of the company that congressman ross says is not into politics. nothing to worry about. nothing to see here, folks. keep moving. congressman ross, come on this show. let's talk about it. come on. [ engine revving ] [ engine powers down ] gentlemen, you booked your hotels on orbitz. well, the price went down, so you're all getting a check thanks. for the difference. except for you -- you didn't book with orbitz, so you're not getting a check. well, i think we've all learned a valuable lesson today. good day, gentlemen. thanks a lot. thank you. introducing hotel price assurance, where if another orbitz customer books the same hotel for less, we send you a check for the difference, automatically.

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a. former half-term alaskan government and vice presidential nominee, sarah palin, can officially add a third line to her resume tonight. underneath even house's proximity to russia and met the president of colombia that one time, she can now list, gave a speech in hong kong. a couple of things to know about this speech that was given to a roomful of financial executives at an investors' forum. first, the speech was closed to the dress. however, we do have appropriate grainy and shaky footage from somebody's handycam -- >> i will call it like i see it and i will tell you candidly how main street, usa, and how perhaps my view of main street representing perhaps a lot of other people, how that affects you, your business. >> second interesting thing about this speech, sarah palin brought along as her adviser randy schuenemann, the

controversial top foreign policy adviser from the mccain/palin campaign. mr. schuenemann made himself famous, at least famous for d.c., at least, when it turned out his lobbying firm signed a new contract with the republic of georgia on the same day that john mccain, the candidate for president, spoke to the president of georgia and released a statement supporting georgia, in what was about to become georgia's armed conflict with russia. the implication was that georgia paid mccain's adviser. mccain's adviser later got mccain to say we are all georgians and, therefore, for the low, low price of randy schuenemann's lobbying fee, georgia almost bought the u.s. military as an ally in wear against russia. that's cheap. and randy schuenemann is who sarah palin brought on board to help her navigate foreign policy in her first speech abroad. in the speech, which went on for a solid hour and a half before the question period, sarah palin argued that the economic crisis that we're in right now was caused by too much regulation of the financial world.

not a typo. too much regulation. quote, we got into this mess because of the government -- because of government interference in the first place. lack of government wasn't the problem. government policies were the problem. the marketplace didn't fail, it became exactly as common sense would expect it to. the government ordered the loosening of lending standards. the federal reserve kept interest rates low. the government forced lending institutions to give loans to people who couldn't afford them. that's how we got into this mess. really? so this illusion presumably is less regulation for wall street going forward? i do not mean to demean the former governor's economic bona fides but we do have an opportunity here to get a second opinion on this from the man who won the nobel prize in economics. joining us now is paul krugman, "the new york times" columnist and economics professor at princeton and, of course, nobel laureate. his totally readable, updated book "the return of repression

economics in the crisis of 2008." welcome back to the show. >> glad to be here. >> i know sarah palin isn't the most relevant topic but i have to ask you, too much government interference in the market. >> may i say first, an hour and a half? >> 90 solid minutes before question. >> my god. that's half of castro. anyway -- >> is that what caused the financial crisis? >> hour and a half speeches? maybe. the funny thing is that governor palin is not that far out of the republican mainstream. i'm not actually sure she's out of it at all on this. there are a lot of people who insist we know government is bad. we know private sector is good. so it must have been government that caused the crisis. and the absence of any facts that actually sort of go in accord with that point of view don't seem to matter. i mean, of course, the way to think about it is we had a pretty tightly regulated banking sector from fdr up until ronald reagan. and a number of financial crises during that period, zero. then we had reagan,

deregulation, savings and loan crisis. further deregulation, east asian financial crisis. and even more deregulation and, well, here we are. so, yeah, it's pretty amazing point of view for anyone to be holding but a lot of people do hold it. >> you say -- the return of depression economics is not just about how we got into this problem. >> right. >> it's also about sort of how to get out. you say this the book, even if there are some tiny green shoots of good news out there right now, we are still living in the world in which the usual rules of economic policy do not apply. we're living in a world governed by depression economics. what did the depression teach economists about how to get out of one or avoid one? >> well, it told us a lot about how to avoid one, which is you really have to put some constraints. i mean to put it roughly, banking is very useful but extremely dangerous. and banks have to have all kinds

of, you know, fencing put around as a protection. they have to have some guarantees so that we don't have bank runs, so people know their money is safe. and then they also have to have regulation so bankers don't take huge risks with other people's money on a heads, i win, tails, you lose basis. we forgot all of that. the short line about how we got into this crisis is we forgot what our grandfathers learned at great expense. getting out of now that we're in the mess, that's much harder. the last time we got out with a world war, which is not something we want to repeat. >> a world war that not as a war was useful, but it was an enormous economic outlay for the government. >> it was an enormous stimulus. we were getting worked up about obama, who is spending at mass 2% of gross domestic product. world war ii was more than 40% of gross domestic product at its peak. this is trivial stuff we're doing now. luckily it's not confronting a great depression. but i get depressed sometimes

did depression because the lesson of depression seems to be getting out of this thing requires efforts on a scale that's outside the realm of what's politically discussible right now. >> do you think that because there are some green shoots of economic recovery right now, further government action is even less likely, that the worse things are, the more political possibility there is? >> yeah, there's a certain sense, the rahm emanuel line, never let a crisis go to waste. but it's starting to look like we did. now things are not good. unemployment is high. still rising. but the sense we've got to act because otherwise the world might end is fading away and that makes it very hard to do stuff. >> one piece of the recovery effort but also the reregulation effort that we have tried to focus on, on this show is consumer protection. >> yes. >> the president proposing new federal agency to regulate consumer financial products, things like credit cards and mortgages and all of these other things that a lot of normal americans have. do you think those proposals are smart, and do they go far

enough? >> they're smart and they go far enough on that dimension. but that's one of the smaller pieces of it. much more important is regulating the amount of capital banks have to hold on hand and regulating the way bankers get paid. consumer protection ought to be the no-brainer, simple thing. how can anybody object? of course, they are. so that's -- the reason consumer protection has become a touchstone here is because if we can't even do that, what chance do we have of actually fixing the bigger things? >> it's the regulatory equivalent of voting in favor of mom and apple pie. the more complicated stuff shouldn't be that much further down the road. paul krugman, nobel prize winning and award winning columnist, thank you for your time. i should say "the return of the depression economics," my personal advice is read it. it is short and you will thank me for the recommendation. >> thank you. today i kept my window open

in my office for noemost of they so i could hear the sheer number of siren that's blew all day, all day in new york city. it wasn't anything scary. it's just that all of the world leaders were in town to go to the u.n. it was tiny a little bit scary because moammar gadhafi could not help himself from talking for a very, very long time. but, first, one more thing about randy schulman and the sarah palin campaign, who alums will be running for higher office next year. meg wittman announced yesterday she's running for california governor. that announcement was at least partially doused by cartly's splash. the former hewlett-packard ceo has yet to announce her bid in california but she has formally unveiled this -- a website so inadvertently hilarious, we have to stop the flash an make before it gets to the best part. if you think it's about to say

carly-fornia, you're right and you're sick. i get that her name is in there, but that is also the phonetic spelling for the way the current governor pronounces the name. responding to the negative coverage of their website in a statement to our producers today said, quote, we were amused by the frenzy a splash page for an unannounced candidate generated and appreciate the huffington post and other left-wing blogs splash generated. we were also amused. let's find out what people think of maxwell house's flavor lock lid. hear that? seals it tight. smells like fresh ground. fresh fresh fresh fre-- that's our favorite part. ...fresh! (announcer) taste why maxwell house is good to the last drop.

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later on "countdown," queen noor of jordan is a guest, and new york congresswoman nita lowey shares her insights for how hard it's been for moammar gadhafi to find a place to sleep this week. and ahead on this show, my interview with two nba scoring champ and seven-time all-star tracy mcgrady. yes, the real tracy mcgrady. not kent or our executive producer bill dressed up like tracy mcgrady doing a stunt. it's the actual tracy mcgrady. it's true. first, a few holy mackerel stories out of midtown manhattan today. >> we know the future will be forged by deeds and not simply words. speeches alone will not solve our problems.

it will take persistent action. so for those who question the character and cause of my nation, i ask you to look at the concrete actions we have taken in just nine months. on my first day in office, i prohibited without exception or equivocation the use of torture by the united states of america. i ordered the prison at guantanamo closed and we are doing the hard work as forging a framework to combat extremism within the rule of law. every nation must know america will live its values, and we will lead by example. >> from here on. that was the president today speaking before the u.n. general assembly. but if you thought those shots at the previous administration weren't all that subtle, here's

how we're going to do things differently, everybody. if you thought that was not too subtle, wait until you hear what he said about other countries. >> sadly but not surprisingly, this body has often become a forum for sewing discord instead of forging common ground, a venue for playing politics and exploiting grievances rather than solving problems. after all, it is easy to walk up to this podium and point fingers and stoke divisions. nothing is easier than blaming others for our troubles and absolving ourselves of responsibility for our choices and our action. anybody can do that. >> as if on cue, right after the president took that overt shot to act like jerks, enter stage kookville, moammar gadhafi. allotted 15 minutes, the lockerbie bomber welcomer instead ranted for over an hour and a half.

he called for a new country called izratine, for the israelis and the palestinians. he repeatedly called president obama "our son," and he sort of said that israel maybe assassinated president kennedy. he also said swine flu is maybe a military conspiracy or a corporate conspiracy. tell me again why gadhafi is a new hero for american neoconservatives? john mccain just this summer, remember when he tweeted his excitement about visiting gadhafi on gadhafi's ranch? what was that about? the only chance today of one-upping craziness came in the early evening when iranian president ahmadinejad took his turn at the mike and addressed his recent "election." >> translator: our nation has successfully gone through a glorious and fully democratic election, opening a new chapter for our country in the march

towards national progress and enhanced international interaction. they entrusted me once more with a large majority with this heavy responsibility. >> ahmadinejad's visit was greeted in the hall by the american, french, british, canadian, and other delegations walking out. and it's been greeted in new york city by protesters railing against ahmadinejad, against his government, against the fishiness of the last presidential election in iran and against the treatment of the iranians who protested that election. tomorrow activists will unfurl a mile-long banner in iran opposition green along the brooklyn bridge. they're also planning on cheering at the empire state building when it lights up green tomorrow night at sunset. the green lighting isn't being done specifically for the protesters. it's for the anniversary of "the wizard of oz." but the protesters are happily celebrating the coincidence anyway. seeing this new american

president of ours address the u.n. for the first time, seeing him raise issue that's never would have been raised by the previous administration, seeing him tout his policy as a sharp break from the most humiliating practices of the past administration, everything from torture to us not paying our u.n. dues, for an american audience, this is a reminder of just how much was changed by the last election. and that makes it all the more interesting and important that some human rights activists who, frankly, were psyched that barack obama was elected are now really unhappy with how his administration is acting. very unexpected politics from very unexpected sources. if you want a sense of just how unexpected this all is, consider that my interview on this subject, which is next, is with a seven-time nba all-star, tracy mcgrady is my guest next. i will explain. stay tuned. how? who did it? i did. with one of these. this is a mouse trap? yeah. it's a new kind of mouse trap from ortho. home defense max. it's guaranteed to kill the mouse. you just push down this little lever right here...

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quote, i would love to say we're succeeding but we're not. we're failing pretty miserably. we're failing in darfur. thus spoke movie star george clooney earlier this month at the toronto film festival, and thus the word darfur got into the american news again. like it or not, celebrities caring about otherwise

hard-to-cover international crises are a big reason that many americans know that crises like these are going on, and the crisis in darfur, the disaster in sudan that has killed more than 300,000 people already, is definitely still going on. our president meeting with some african leaders this week as the u.n. general assembly convened in new york, while there are new reports of intense fighting this week in darfur. now, hopes were high among human rights activists when president obama was elect thad this issue would not only be a priority for the administration, but that a fresh approach from a powerful, new internationally well regarded african-american president would make peace possible. for the first time since war and the ravaging of the civilian population of sudan started six years ago. but so far activists broadly speaking, and i'm not talking everybody but there's a lot of them, have been disappointed. i should also say, though, that the pressure is not going away, in part because of those darn famous people who won't let it go away.

this summer, for example, two-time nba scoring champ and seven-time nba all-star tracy mcgrady changed his jersey number. nobody does that. but he did. he changed it from number 1 to number 3 in order to promote that there is a three-point program for making things right in darfur. three points -- peace, protection and punishment. three points is also the name of a documentary that you can watch online at hulu about mr. mcgrady's travel to darfur, what he saw there and his decision to become an activist. >> i don't see one ball. one ball. >> 500 people. >> we were talking earlier about the soccer field and you said it would be just $1,000? >> just to clean the place and to make it like without grass. >> a flat surface. >> a flat surface. >> but it would be everything

that they need. >> they pull the goal posts and the net. >> that's a done deal. >> in march, mr. mcgrady and the co-founder of the "enough" project and the council under president clinton, they launched the darfur dream team. it's programmed to link american middle schools and high schools and colleges to schools that are for the referees in the disasters in darfur. joining us now is tracy mcgrady and john pendergrass. gentlemen, it is nice to have you on the show. >> thank you for having us. >> let me ask you about the big picture. there was tech neckly a peace agreement a few years ago, 2006, but this war isn't over. it's still happening. has there been any progress? is there any way to explain things to an american audience that hasn't been following this closely, is there a way to talk about this in terms of progress, or is that an inappropriate concert for this now? >> on the one hand i think hundreds of thousands of more people would have died had there

not been this grassroots movement across the united states. this antigen over side movement telling our government to take advantage of this issue. president bush, now president obama talks about darfur. that's one side. the other side matches the rhetoric. when president bush or president obama articulates that it is during, it is a response commensurate with the utilization of that term. so we're hoping as you've said in the introduction, you look bat at candidate obama. you look at candidate clinton. you look at candidate biden a year ago, they were talking very tough about what they would do about darfur once they got into office and they haven't done that yet so we're still hoping. >> in term of the overall prospects for america's caring about this issue, making thing better. hearing john say that it may have saved hundred of thousands

of lives is an inspiring thing. you've been involved in humanitarian and charitable work, boys and girl clubs, make-a-wish foundation. was it hard to make the decision to get involve in something international? something so far from home? >> it really wasn't. i'm a guy that, i don't live on the earth just to live to walk it. i live on here to make a difference. and i've done a lot of things in the community of houston and florida within the states, but i wanted to do something more on a global level. it was huge. it was a no brainer for me. especially once i got over there and saw how bad it was, you can't come back and not do anything. i kept may word. may wore was to make sure i got the awareness out. back here in the states. and i promised all the refugee people that i would do that because it had that big of an effect on me once i left. >> when you think about the way

that america as a country, not just the government, can stop the genocide. what is your fantasy? what is your dream in term of the most we could do to get it? >> frankly speaking, november, whatever the date was when president obama was elected, as a candidate, he was so clear about the need for american diplomatic leadership. and in this case, in darfur, the answer is not sending in the 82nd airborne. the answer is real serious diplomatic engagement in support of a peace, a sustainable peace in sudan. that's the answer. we can do it. i have fwho doubt that we have the talented diplomats to do it. we need to marshal that will and freeway resources to do the job. you think about what the most cost effective things in the world could possibly be. instead of spending billion in aid and peace keeping troops,

than to spend a few dollars up front in diplomatic help and watch that war end. >> diplomatic help, diplomatic pressure. tracy, one last question for you. because well known people, athletes, celebrities, have really been totally so important in material of keeping the pressure on, keeping this crisis in the public eye, have you been able to persuade other athletes, other basketball players other, people you know because of your stature to get involve? >> absolutely. i think a lot of guys that heard about what i was doing over there instantaneously just wanted to be a part of the program. they were moved by it. derek fisher from the los angeles lakers is a part of it. a couple more guys that want to be a part of this. they understand that these are innocent people that are getting harmed and they want to do something about it. and i thank those guys for really reaching out to me and wanting to be a part of the

program. >> the houston rockets star tracy mcgrady, john pendergrass. good luck with the darfur dream team program. it is online as you might expect at darfur dream team.org. for school and individuals to get involved. thank you. good luck to you. money when you make money," tdd# 1-800-345-2550 he neglected to mention tdd# 1-800-345-2550 he also makes money when i lose money, tdd# 1-800-345-2550 withdraw money or do nothing with my money. tdd# 1-800-345-2550 tdd# 1-800-345-2550

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how impressive s "countdown" "hardball" is up next. james traficant. let's play "hardball." good evening. i'm chris matthews in boston. leading off tonight. he is back. james traficant, the former congressman found guilty of bribery and racketeering is fresh off his seven-year prison sentence. the expelled politician known for being one of the more colorful characters on capitol hill is coming here to "hardball." plus president obama's considering scaling back american forces in afghanistan which could satisfy some democrats but infuriate some republicans who have been in support of his hawkish policy in the region. the political perils of afghanistan. republicans are still hawkish on afghanistan but the party is going to war with some of its own members who don't stick strictly to the

conservative message. south carolina republicans are on the hunt for what they call rinos, republicans in name only, their current target bob ingles. is the risk becoming the pure republicans carrying the risk of becoming the small party? also the democrats are getting 60 senators. massachusetts has acted to bet the governor pick an interim senator, pick someone to fill ted kennedy's seat. looks like it's going to be longtime kennedy ally paul kirk. that is coming up in "the politics fix." finally moammar gadhafi today called president obama a kenyan who he would like to see president for life. gadhafi's words on obama in "the sideshow." let's start with the former u.s. congressman who made these words his trademark. >> beam me up. >> jim traficant, thank you very much for joining us. you're a colorful guy. i appreciate you coming on the