have a higher percentage ofs a tone in some of their products which could help in making this explosive device. that is the reason for the beauty supply issue. and on top of that, in denver where these chemicals were bought, the fbi, these documents, they are saying he had help. there were three other people who went out and made some of these purchases. whether that's knowingly or unknowingly unclear, we know they are looking at several other people in denver and in new york, the conspiracy to build an explosive device. the belief is to bring it here and explode it somewhere in the new york area but the court papers today don't say what, where or when the target. >> the papers indicate that zazi was talking with someone about his inability to make this explosive, that he was having trouble and was communicating to someone on how to actually make this bomb. >> that's right some, necessary the hotel. he tries to mix this chemicals. he can't seem to do it the fbi says they found evidence, traces of chemicals in that hotel. he then drives to new york. it is that drive to new york

that got everyone raised up, concerned that, oh oh to, does he have a bomb in that vehicle? he apparently did not, that was the concern, that he came here again looking for help, went around sections of queens, according to law enforcement officials looking for added chemicals, looking for help how to build. this he apparently was never able to. that's why the search continues in new york and in denver at storage facilities and going store-to-store and they try to find out what happened to-to-those chemicals, what happened now? >> wnbc's jonathan deinst, thank you. >> thank you. how many others may have been involved in the alleged terror plot and exactly what were the intended targets? after uncovering what's believed to be the first al qaeda cell in the u.s. since 9/11, authorities have issued warnings for mass transit systems nationwide, also hotels, stadiums and large enter tapement complexes. joining us now is michael sheehan, former counterterrorism chief for the new york police department. he is now a private consultant, michael, good to see you. >> afternoon.

>> we are learning some interesting details from the indictment. one, that the terrorism suspect xblaz zi zazi plotted more than a year to detonate the bomb and he worked for a year to make the explosives. >> in a plot like this you will need a few guys to run the lab, takes a couple, three people to run a lab, tough cook these materials together, pull off the slurry and put it into the bomb and keep the material cool. so, it takes a few people to do that. to conduct the attack it looks like they were going to use multiple backpack-type bombs, probably another six to eight people, if they are going to have multiple targets, which is normally the modus operandi of al qaeda, a cell like it could get up to about ten people. >> when -- in the indictment when it says that the airport shuttle driver, zazi, began plotting to use one or more weapons of mass destruction between august 1, 2008, and

september, 2009, against the united states, what do they mean and why are they calling them weapons of mass destruction? >> well, a weapons of mass destruction we normally think of as a big nuclear bomb or a biological weapon but actually in legal terms it is a weapon that will kill more than just say a pistol would. in this case, with the materials that he was trying to get, here, talking about an improvised bomb, a pat or hndt, two of the more classic bomb these use that use the household chemicals but mixed together could blow up tens and dozens of people in railroad cars like happened in london and madrid, why they call it a weapon of mass destruction but not clik a nuclear weapon or anything serious of that nature. >> the court documents indicate today in zazi's notes he had bomb making instructions, including specifications for, among other explosives, those used in the 2005 london transit bombings and also those intended to be used in the 2001 shoe bomb plot by richard reid.

so, he was trying to emulate those guys, right? >> that's right. these are weapons that are well known to terrorist groups around the world, download the instructions,make those on the internet. he have terrorist knows that, not that easy to do that's why he was having difficulty getting the materials and then getting a lab set up where he could actually make the substance needed to be exploded, not that easy to do although it can be do and has been done in the past from al qaeda operatives, madrid you london and of course, in the middle east as well. >> michael, we have talked about this before, but as we look at some of these new details in the di indictment, do you believe zazi trained in pakistan may have been working alone or in a small cell or getting orders from some place, perhaps in pakistan from an al qaeda cell there and should that be of a big concern to us moving forward? >> right now, we don't have a lot of specific information

about exactly where who he was with in pakistan and were he has admitted he was in camps and getting training, that means he was with al qaeda or affiliate groups out there, that was bad news. when i was at nypd this is something we worried about every day, a person that had that type of motivation but got the training in a serious camp in pakistan or afghanistan and then came back to the u.s. to organize his cell. so, this is a very, very serious individual who probably got training either with al qaeda or one of the affiliates, all kind of mixed together in any case. so this raises the severity of this threat significantly. >> no doubt. michael sheehan, as always, thanks for your expertise. >> thank you. tamron, again, that's worrisome that he was plotting this for more than a year and that he was putting out these urgent requests in the last two weeks, again, the good news is that they caught him. >> that is the case, we know they are still looking for others and that is why that concern is still great at this point.

also right now, norah, president obama is on his way to pittsburgh for the g-20 economic summit. expect to land and 3:30 eastern time, the president will attend two days of meetings with the leaders of the world's largest economies. this is -- we have video in from actually some of the protests but also have, of course, the g-20 in london, the last one. mr. obama hopes the leaders agree on steps that will prevent another global economic crisis from happening. this is the video i was referring to, a protest happening right now in pittsburgh they can threatened to try to disrupt the g-20, nothing like the protests we saw in london when they were breaking out the windows of banks and you saw bloody faces and people confronted or confronting the authorities. right now, at least, it seems like these folks are people, there have been reports of at least 15 people arrested who were protesting in pittsburgh. and earlier today, the president presided over an historic session of the u.n. security council. the council unanimously approved a u.s.-sponsored resolution committing all nations to work

for a nuclear weapons-free world. >> its historic resolution we just adopted enshrines our shared commitment to the goal of a world without nuclear weapons. and builds on a consensus that all nations have the right to peaceful nuclear energy. the nations with nuclear weapons have the responsibility to move toward disarmament and those without them have the responsibility to forsake them. >> as the world leaders gathered in pittsburgh for the g-20, the protests, as we mentioned, have already started. the pittsburgh resistance project is organizing two mass marches on the summit, happening today, right now, as well as tomorrow. nbc's john yang joins us live from pittsburgh with the very latest. john, as i mentioned, 15 people arrested, just showed video of protestors, very different than the protests we saw in london but still their goal there is disrupt. what's the latest? >> reporter: well, they are now marching toward -- from this park, arsenal park in a neighborhood called lawrenceville here in

pittsburgh, marching southwest about two and a half miles, trying to get as close to the convention center as they can. we are now being told by nbc news colleagues along the route, of ours along the route that instead of marching in a single column, they have now sort of dispersed, they are going down a number of streets, a number of alleyways, making harder for police to stop them to see them and stop them. this is an unauthorized march. >> john, i apologize, we have got interrupt, we have breaking news, apologies to john yang. we have breaking news, live pictures from the united nations, venezuelan president hugo chavez is about to -- he is right now addressing the general assembly. the last time chavez was there, 2006, when he uttered the words that president bush was "the devil," let's listen n. >> made by oliver stone. made over the past month. the title of the movie already

channels your thinking. it is called "south of the border" and you will see president morales chewing coca leaves in the movie with oliver stone. and as president morales says, coke is not the same as cocaine. you will see christina, the president of argentina and the automobile of general peron and what she has to say about events in latin america, in south america. you will see lula, the president of brazil in the guajida area of venezuela working with us to

raise up the indigenous people through core industrial projects. you will see president fernando lugo, a theologist, a liberation theologian, living today in the home of president strasner and you will see how a bishop became a precedent. you will also see president corea of ecuador in havana with president raul castro. you will see fidel, in fact, obama, in trinidad, with a group of us, his hand-held out to us and an open-faced smile. i think it's an interesting

movie, one of the many interesting movies made by this great filmmaker, oliver stone. he had already made two movies about castro, "looking for fi defendant el" and "el commandante." there's a lot in that movie, many messages, many signals that could help us decipher the enigmas that pervade the times in which we live. we stayed behind after the movie was over last night. we chatted with a group of americans and people from other parts of the world. and it was very instructive. this meeting was very

symptomatic of the importance of what fidel calls the battle of ideas a lady came up to me, a lady in her 50s and they said, "i'm very happy." he was a north american, very white, very typical u.s. citizen, born here. and she spoke some spanish and she said, "i'm very happy." and she said, "now, having seen this movie, i realized what you are. i thought you were a very bad person." so, she is a victim of the media bombardment, the ideological warfare, the ideological bombing of this world and the entire

world that tries to put the world upside down as it was so aptly put, upside down. the movie is called "south of the border" and i'm taking advantage of this opportunity and that title, "south of the border" to tell you that south of the border, a revolution is under way. a revolution is under way in south america. a revolution is under way in latin america. there a he is a revoluti there's a revolution in the caribbean. the world has come to see this. must take stock of it and accept it, because it's a fact of life that's not going to change. and we should say, mr. president, that this is a revolution that goes beyond ideology. it's even geographical,

geopolitical. it's an historic revolution. it's part of the time. it's a moral, spiritual revolution. and it is a comprehensive and necessary revolution. that is what we think. it is a major revolution and it is going to grow with the passing of time as the months go by, as the years go by. and why is it major and great? it is because it has been a long time coming, centuries have now come to this moment in time. [ inaudible ] this is the president of uganda.

please put the headphone on. now we're ready. long live africa! i'm not going to speak anymore than gadhafi. gadhafi has said everything there is to say. this show of hands is for gadhafi's speech, but i won't speak any less than obama either. or lula. those of you who are arriving, just walk in. so, why am i saying this is a great revolution? firstly, because of the time. the accumulated time, the time

that's gone by this century, the battles, the hopes, the suffering of millions and millions of human beings in latin america and the caribbean. it's also a great revolution because of the space, the area it covers, and also the depth, the depth of its roots and also because of the masses of population that are joining it. no one is trying to break it or slow it and no one will be able to. yesterday, president morales said that here, this great companion, this great indigenous leader of the -- morales and you will see that in the movie, too, make a point of going to see it, "south of the border." oliver stone told me that

precio pressure efres pressure exerted to keep people from seeing the movie, the monopoly distributors, the owners of the theaters, these are all monopolies. but movie will be shown. this is the information age. it's the telecommunications age. the owners of the theaters can no longer prevent knowledge from circulating. and says as much in the movie when he is being interviewed by oliver stone. remembering something that a great leader once said, his great, great, great, great, great, great grandfather, who was murdered just as so many millions were by the spanish th

pore chew geez, the british, when the great ships arrived to the americas there were about 19 million indigenous people there 200 years later, only 4 million still lived. this is one of the greatest genocides in history, the indigenous people call us. so in the movie repeat the sentence uttered by this great leader who was drawn and quartered. he was tied to -- >> i'm sorry, i'm hearing several different things in my

ears, as well as the venezuelan president, hugo chavez, who is just speaking, we are getting in some new information and some new pictures from pittsburgh, where there are, of course, protests for the g-20. >> norah, i understand you are having issues with the ifpb. we are hearing this is the scene from pittsburgh right now, some gas was dispersed amongst a crowd of protesters, authorities were heard telling protesters, you must business burst, you must disburse, not sure if this is come from authorities, that may be the case as some of the protestors are pouring water on their eyes, huge plume of gas or tear gas, you are seeing, you three is in the back of the shot. as many as 15 protestors have been arrested already. these people are at the g 20 to in their words, at least according to some participating to disrupt the meeting of the

world leaders, the top 20 leaders in the world, including president barack obama, who is expected to land there about 3:30 eastern time. again, these images are coming in from pittsburgh, pennsylvania where the g-20 summit will take place the next two days and one side of the screen i believe is taped, where you see the gas there, tear gas, we are assuming, that was released by authorities to disburse or make the protesters break up. we saw video earlier, they were marching what seemed ton just a usual kind of calm protest down the street and at some point within the last few minutes, this chaos erupted there. this is very different than the protests that we saw with the g-20 in london, we were seeing pictures of bloody protesters and they were breaking out windows of banks and targeting businesses, but now, we are seeing this perhaps heat up here in pittsburgh, pennsylvania, where it looks like these people are actually in the rear of

homes or buildings there, but that tape you see on the side of your screen, where the people are running, this happening just a short time ago and trying to get more details, i believe we should have someone on the phone with us shortly to find out what happened. in the minute that we were listening to hugo chavez, the president of venezuela talking to the u.n. general assembly, we got word in that there had been some kind of event or confrontation in pittsburgh and this is the video that's coming in to us. again, we have -- norah, i think we have worked out our technical issues, with my colleague norah o'donnell hosting the two hours with me. norah, what are you hearing now? >> that's right, tamron, the reason we can show you the live pictures now, we actually have a live view camera which is walking with the protesters as they march there in pittsburgh. so, that's why we have these live pictures, you can see what's going on and why there has been that large amount of gas and we can show you as they move along here.

it is important to point out that we have someone in pittsburgh and filing reports for us. we are hearing that police have now brought out their riot gear at 16th and penn to stop these protestors from marching. and there you see it, that large amount of smoke right there that is a big concern in pittsburgh, as the president of the united states, barack obama, is there, along with the g-20 leaders, the first lady of the united states is there as well. you can see a lot of protesters and quite a scene going on there, tamron. >> yeah, the estimates, norah, were around several hundred protesters were expected to for two days. they had banners like "no bailout no capitalism." these activists coming from all across the country, perhaps even from different parts of the world here to in some cases, as they put it disrupt the g-20. the president is expected to land if about six minutes from now. the area in which he is to

travel up to speak to members of the g-20 heavily secured, heavily guarded, so the protestors are not able to get near the president as of this -- the world organization gathers to talk about the issues facing the global economy, but as you mention now, norah, we can hear car alarms going off and people are kind of running back and forth around here, not seen any of these -- the police in riot gear. we often will see, norah, them kind of line up in this intimidating formation, at least the van page point our cameras have now, you just kind of see a hodgepodge of people running with flags and carrying on in a chaotic manner. >> yeah and i think it is important to point out, too, tamron, they have largely tried to southwester a lot of these protesters and hundreds of them, not thousands, hundreds in this arsenal park so that they don't get near the summit area, don't get near some of where the world leaders are, certainly trying to march that way, but you can see

the riot police, they are using these annoying sirens, right, to sort of back these protesters up and some of the gas, get them to disburse, unique we have this camera view of these protesters as they try to get their voices heard on some of these issues but there are, indeed, so sort of sequestered from where many of the leaders gathering for this important g-20 summit. as you point out, tamron, the president is expecting soon. >> understanding now, getting word, air force one is landing, there is the video there, air force one landing, as you point out, riot sensors that lined the sidewalks, helicopter boats, hum advice, they have pulled out obviously an arsenal of equipment and individuals to protect those world leaders there and to keep them, as you pointed out, away from the protestors. city officials also announced, according to reports, they have got 1,000 gel cejail cells read law breakers. this is a series of different

organizations all kind of together that's why you will see banners that say different things but they are all there obviously because of the g-20, you see the video on the side of your screen, president obama just landing there. i'm not sure if these people, norah, are reacting, maybe try to drum up their anger, knowing that the president is close to landing or would be close to landing, perhaps to get attention to their cause and to their protest. had has been, quite honestly, pretty quiet throughout the day. >> yeah, you know, i guess they are calling themselves it is a different -- some different groups that are gathered in this park, but these g-20 resistance projects, protesterses who are talking about dissent against the establishment is sort of their beef and why they are there. >> right, but there are also even buddhist monks among those protesting, a hodgepodge of people there we are going to go to a quick break, the president has landed for the g-20 summit in pittsburgh. protesters are now confronted or being confronted by riot police.

we are going to be right back after a quick break, get you caught up on all of the events happening out of pittsburgh. ( whooshing ) announcer: you could buy 300 bottles of water. or just one brita filter. ( drop plinks ) brita-- better for the environment and your wallet. now there's new heart health advantage from bayer. its non-aspirin formula contains phytosterols, which may reduce the risk of heart disease... by lowering bad cholesterol. new heart health advantage from bayer.

welcome back. we are following breaking news right now, pittsburgh, pennsylvania. we have got two screens up for you because air force one tax sig, the president just landing from the g-230 summit. either side of your screen is -- we are watching a confrontation between protesters and authorities there on the scene. this is the first sign of -- we don't want to make too much of this. there are several hundred protestors but some type of confrontation between the protesters you three is and authorities on the scene. earlier about 15 people had been arrested, protesters right there right now, trying to get more information exactly what happened here what caused this confrontation between the protesters and the authorities. when you hear, also this siren in the background is called a

long acoursic device, long-range acoustic device and it is designed to "bring the protesters to their knees" it is suppose and deterrent to break up any large gathering of people and such. we also saw tear gas, a number of pro-protestors pouring water in their eyes. my colleague, norah o'donnell is here with me and watching as large humvees make their way through to break up this latest what appears to be a relatively small confrontation between authorities. we will keep an eye on this situation and bring you the very latest on what's happening in pittsburgh as the president of the united states has land there had for the g-20 summit. norah? >> yeah, just as the sun comes up every morning, you can expect these type of protestors, some sort of world summit like this. they show up all the time in order to get their voices heard. i think relatively speaking this is a pretty small protest, given that it is in the hundreds and a ragtag band of people with a lot of smoke and they are trying to push them back. >> but also -- norah, point out,

looks like the president will be getting off of air force one here shortly. and you pointed out it is a small group of people, nothing like we saw when the g-20 was in london and saw images of people and the authorities and police in riot gear and it was some pretty volatile confrontation. we are not seeing that we are seeing, first what appears to be images of a little chaos between the police and the protesters. we are going to monitor these pictures and bring our audience the very latest, norah. >> all right, we will continue also to keep up that picture of air force one as we are expecting the president to exit there from air force one, because today in the bigger picture, actually talking about first lady michelle obama, because she is actually emerging as something of a hostess in chief this week in pittsburgh where, of course this g-20 summit is happening, her husband is going to be deep in the talks with world leaders and the first lady is going to be entertaining the spouses by introducing them to the steel city and her own

passions like art, education and sustainable farming. it is sort of a debut for the first lady as she plays this hostess in chief role. joining us now to talk about it is craig gordon, who is the white house editor for politico. craig, good see you. thanks for joining us. >> hey, norah, how are you? >> what is new about the first lady's role in terms of playing this hostess in chief and what is some of the events she has planned? >> she was a guest at the last one of these in london where this she, of course did all the sort of spouse events they do, she went to an art museum and a school there and such. here is her chance to kind of roll out the red carpet for the fellow spouses from the other countries, carla bruni sarkozy is supposed to be there, gordon brown's wife for britain, laura bush did a lot of the same things in georgia in 2004 there is a big dinner at theresa heinz kerry's estate outside of pittsburgh, that is one of the main events, touring the andy warhol museum, some people might be surprised to find it is in

pittsburgh and also attending kind of an arts academy, modeled like the idea, spurred the "fame" movie, arts students, that sort of thing. michelle gave a rather emotional speech when she toured a similar facility in london she teared up, talking to the young girls in that audience saying, look, i came from humble roots, look where i am, i can do the same t is arts, culture, a lot of different things but a way to put on a good face for the united states. >> you know, we see now the president and the first lady arriving here in pittsburgh as they come from new york and the meetings there. and the first lady, as you were pointing out, craig, has a very busy schedule. the first lady is not involved directly in diplomacy but some of these meetings can be important, can't they, in terms of future diplomacy and establishing relationships? >> to oh, absolutely, especially for president obama, i believe who is really trying to, saw his speech in the u.n. earlier this

week, trying to put a new face on the united states and saying to the world, i am not george w. bush. i am not going to go it alone, i want your input, i want to sort of be a partner in the world and i think that is kind of a little bit where michelle obama comes in. she is very popular in the united states, very popular around the world and i think she is almost like, again, a partner in that effort to show kind of a smiley face to the united states and to talk to the spouses and i can only imagine some of the spouses go back to their presidents and prime ministers and talk about michelle and talk about pittsburgh and all that stuff. so, it is -- all sorts of contributes the overall sense, putting out a welcome mat for the world there in pittsburgh. >> craig gordon from politico, thank you. >> we see the first lady, a big debut for her hosting the first ladies there i'm sort offed they are in the nod to michelle obama's eating, theresa heinz kerry, a working farm there. >> intriguing the politics behind it, some of the writers

have said these powerful women, because they are, get together and maybe michelle obama's words will play an influence is say carla brawny sarkozy and she would talk with her husband and the politics of it all coming from these powerful woman who are at the side of these obviously powerful men, interesting dynamic, things going on there. >> and what they are eating, too. >> you know some comment about what they are wearing too. >> got to have that. all right. the man who has been chosen to replace the late senator ted kennedy on an interim basis will be sworn into office tomorrow. >> one day after massachusetts lawmakers granted the late senator one wish of his final -- one of the wishes of in changing the succession law, former aide and long-time friend paul kirk jr. was named to fill the seat. governor pa patritrick made tha announcement today at the state house. >> the issues before the congress and the nation are simply too important to massachusetts for us to be one voice short.

and i am pleased to appoint paul kirk as the interim united states senator from massachusetts. [ applause ] >> mr. kirk said he intends to honor the late senator's wishes with regard to policy. >> to also have the encouragement and support of his family, that i be a voice and a voice and a vote for his causes and his constituents in the senate that he loved is a blessing i can to only repay by giving my very best efforts to be the best public servant i can be in the few months ahead. >> nbc's kelly o'donnell joins us live from capitol hill. kelly, i'm curious of the reaction, obviously, there has already been some criticism of the selection by many concerned about mr. kirk's background, particularly as a lobbyist. >> well, there has been that question raised because did he some work in the health care lobby area. he is an attorney. he has his own business, all of

those things. now these a public official, all of that has to be disclosed and any of those ties have to be cut. it is also a certain expedience in this kind of an appointment because this term he will serve is just a few months, because in january, there will be the election, the special election to fill out the remainder of edward kennedy's term. so in the short run, there are a lot of things happening in his office, which is just down the hallway here, that need to be taken care of. so to have someone who has been a long-time associate of kennedy's, who knows the staff, there will be a bit of an easier transition. he said today he will retain all of the staff in kennedy's office. they have still been at work trying to unwind the 47 years of kennedy's service, boxing up all the files, packing things up, preparing for a transition, so for the short run, the transition will be easier with this choice because he certainly understands the issues, worked with kennedy for a long time, was the choice of the kennedy family, the way they have been able to split the difference in

massachusetts is to emphasize that there will be an opportunity for voters in a december primary and then that special election i referred to to make their own choice for the long-term but this caretaker seat will really allow him to work and woe know that there is a real dynamic about the number 60 here, because democrats will now, once again, have 60 votes needed to stop any filibuster from the republican side and we know that health care is in the background here and paul kirk, as a senator tomorrow, will be among those who would be able to vote for a democrat plan when it reaches the floor. norah, tamron? >> thank you very much, nbc's kelly o'donnell. thank you again, kelly. interesting, many people predicted, watching "hardball" last night with chris matthews, exactly what chris predicted would happen in this, it would be paul kirk selected there? >> i think kelly makes an important point, too, he is, in many ways, going to keep some of the staff on board, provide this transition, of course, what the democrats want, another solid democratic vote that may bring them to 60 if they finally get this health care stuff done and

ready to vote on. >> up next, how school officials are explaining, norah, this tape that shows children in a classroom behind that blur you see there. can't see the kids but you can hear the song and it's about president obama. >> yes, important to look at the words about what they are singing. you are watching "the big picture" right here on msnbc. ♪ bicycle, what are we waiting for? the flowers are blooming.

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welcome back. we are following breaking news of a confrontation between riot police and protesters in pittsburgh where the g-20 summit is happening. the president just landing there. these are live pictures right now. you see the riot police getting off of that school bus. let's go to nbc's john yang, he is live in pittsburgh, tell us more about what's going on here. john, we get more information that these people may have been unlawfully assemblied and that is why they had a confrontation

with police. >> reporter: tamron, the goal here was never -- not to apply for a permit. the goal was to have an unpermitted gathering here at arsenal park in the lawrenceville neighborhood of pittsburgh and then try to march to the convention center, where the summit is being held about 2 1/2 miles southwest of here. they said that if they were to seek a government permit, a city permit for this demonstration that would make the demonstration state sanctioned, so they wanted to show -- to exercise what they said were their rights to the streets, to use the streets, to raise their voices and their right to free speech. what's happened so far is that about -- about six blocks away from here, the police told them to disburse, told them this was an unlawful march and told them to disburse, they did sort of break apart, did stop walking in a single column toward downtown and then sort of went on side streets into alleyways. there was -- we are told by our innocence colleagues along the route that there was some tear gas used, that this is in a very

small neighborhood and entertainment district of pittsburgh called the strip, a very isolated incident, still about 20 blocks away from where the summit is being held, tamron. >> john, thank you very much for the update on that breaking news. thank you, john. and it is time for "making their case" this one from a grammar school in new jersey, it is video of young school children singing a song about president obama and it is making its way around the internet. as you watch the kids sing, out of respect for their privacy, msnbc is not going to show the kids' faces but look closely at the lyrics of the song.

>> not long after the video showed up on several major news sites, the school sent a letter to families of the students and the letter reads, "today we became aware of a video that was placed on the internet which has been reported in the media. the activity took place during black history month, our curriculum studies, honors and recognizes those who serve our country. the recording and distribution was unauthorized." mike stark, fire dog..com and tim connolly, editor and columnist for the washington editor are here with us. tim what's wrong with this video? >> the presidency is supposed to be about a position and about the powers there and not about the man and this sort of thing where they are exalting the man, exalting his accomplishments that is different from, you know, a black history month

story of barack obama. >> he is the president of the united states. >> he is the president of the united states, but again, praise him for how he has risen to that position from where he started, but making kids -- i went to new york state public school, i suffered through some of the indoctrination, alongside a great education but making them praise his accomplishments, making them praise equal pay for equal work law, that is something -- >> you don't believe in equal pay for equal work? >> i believe in equal pay. i would love to make equal pay to you ladies but i don't. i don't believe the government should be in the business enforcing what an employer pays an employee. that is a position that is debated in american politics. it is positions on either side, both respectable, but to force kids to take a position on this political -- this political question, that's indoctrination that is not just praising our president or praising a man, you know, a great black man. >> mike, you want to make your case? >> yeah, this is just the latest silly controversy for the right-wing bloggers and talk

radio toe hosts and tea baggers. >> explain to the people what you mean by tea baggers. why do you -- do your kids watch this show? . i want to speak without being interrupted. >> you are being vulgar on national television. >> let's give -- let might explain, all right. >> if this was directly from the white house, government sponsored, i would be right there calling out concern for this but this wasn't this was some teacher in some school, somewhere in this great united states of ours that taught the kids a song, listen, let's talk about where this is coming from it is coming from rush limbaugh calling barack obama a nazi, parallels to the nazi youth movement along the blog go sphere, glenn beck calling the president a racist, folks lead the charge, all their lack kiss on talk radio, mark levin, laura ingram, fired up, bloggers involved and absolutely silly, a new story would be the controversy in texas, they really are trying to

indoctrinate texas where they are trying to indoctrinate children by writing out evolution in favor of creationism or civil war heroes or writing civil rights history out of the history of the united states. i've got a problem with that. this is marginal. it's a fake controversy. just something else for right-wingers to wet the bed over. >> msnbc is right wingers for this. they brought us on to this. >> tim, i wanted to get your take on that. this is children. they're singing a song. i'm not clear myself. if you can make your point again about why this is indoctrination, political indoctrination to praise your president. i remember certainly in elementary school when ronald reagan was president and we sent him jellybeans, we designed all of these things about ronald reagan. we sent them to him. i don't think everybody in the class ended up a republican because of that. >> did you sing a song praising the 1981 kemperal tax cuts? we sure didn't. i had history teachers who were very biased. >> i don't see anything about tax cuts. i see this more nationalistic

than political. it's about praising the president and making our country great again. i don't see anything as -- anything about, you know -- >> the concerns from the -- >> let's give health care to everybody or no more tax cuts. there's really nothing in there that's actually that controversial. >> they talk about all his great accomplishments, which, of course, is a reference -- that is a reference to his policy. >> why can't we respect our leaders, whether they're democrat or republican? >> i'm great in respecting leaders. you should ask your friend mike stark about respecting leaders, how he runs off and harasses politicians on the streets. the fact is, it's great to respect leaders. it's great to praise barack obama. his personal story is amazing. i want every kid to know that story. but, again, praising specific policies that he passes is political siizing the classroom. i suffered in new york state public schools where they made us write letters to the governor opposing tax cuts and that sort of thing. i know how it goes. >> where in the language of that

song do you see specific policies? i'm really at a loss here. >> the lilly ledbetter pay act, which was lobbied for -- i cover lobbying. look at the lobbying registration for trial lawyers. >> the words lilly ledbetter were in there? the words trial lawyers in there? come on, man. >> equal pay for -- equal work for equal pay. did he that in specific policy. >> and overwhelmingly too. there were a number of republicans that voted for that. mark stark -- i apologize. we're out of time. this is a good discussion. i appreciate having you both on. thanks so much. >> thank you. just ahead -- today's crossing the line, why top wildlife experts say pandas should be allowed to die. basically said we should let them die. upbeat rock ♪ singer:wanted to get myself a new cell phone ♪

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welcome back to controversial statements from a tv wildlife expert has a lot of people extremely upset. but did the guy cross the line? here's the story.

pandas, of course, are a threatened species. and earlier this week the bbc's chris packham said the panda isn't worth saving. in an interview with radio times he said, quote, i reckon we should pull the plug, and let them go, with a degree of dignity. he added there's limited resources and pandas are expensive and the money might be better spent helping other endangered animals. he went on to say the only reason pandas get so much attention is because they're big and cute. which they are. internet message boards have been flooded from postings from angry animal lovers. the world wildlife fun is not happy with packham, calling his comments irresponsible. we should note since he first said pandas should be left to die, he revised his statement. when confronted by the british newspaper "the mirror" packham said -- i really upturned the apple cart with what i said, and i'm sorry i upset people. but i'm glad it has raised debate and that was always his

intention. he sure did raise a debate. what's not an issue, some species are stronger than other, resources are limited and extinction is a part of life on this earth. but chris packham, a guy who's supposed to run animals, supposed to be in their corner, he said they should die. did he cross the line? or maybe he was telling the truth. let me know what you think, twitter.msnbc.com. i did not say he was telling the truth. i'm asking what you think. please, animal lovers, don't flood me with angry e-mails. >> no doubt. welcome 4:00 on the east coast, we are just getting started. coming up, new details on the alleged terror plot to blow up bombs in new york city. are other suspects still at large? more on today's g-20 protests in pittsburgh. police clashing with demonstrators. see the tear gas? we will go live to the scene in a few minutes. also, sarah palin's parting thoughts as she leaves hong kong to head back home. there she is. hear what she told cameras about her political future.

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new charges against the man accused in a terror plot against the united states. today charges of conspiracy to use weapons of mass destruction in new york city s new details in the investigation and the latest on the search for more suspects. face-off in pittsburgh. protesters right now on the streets as president obama hosts the world's most powerful leaders at the g-20 summit. >> mr. chairman, i am not delaying. i am making an extremely important point. mr. chairman, it's courteous if you don't interrupt somebody right in the middle of the sentence of an important point they're trying to make. >> rough and tumble in the senate. lawmakers fighting over changes in the baucus proposal. and now accusations that republicans are trying to stall the critical vote. plus -- new details about sarah palin's big debut out of the public eye. what she said about death