videotape again. this is eric cantor at a town hall meeting, his only one this summer, down in richmond, virginia. this was on monday night. here's the exchange. >> i have a very close relative, a woman in her early 40s who did have a wonderful, high-paying job, owns her own home and was a contributing member of society. she lost her job. just a couple of weeks ago, she found out that she has tumors in her belly and that she needs an operation or doctors told her that they are growing that she needs to get this operation quickly. she has no insurance. >> i guess i would ask what the situation is in terms of income eligibility and the existing programs out there. because if we look at the uninsured right now, there is probably 23%, 24% of the

uninsured that is already eligible for an existing government program beyond that. i know that there are programs, there are charitable organizations, there are hospitals here who do provide charity care. >> charity? charity? did you hear that, folks? now, mr. cantor, his office, when we played that last night and i ripped into him because the republicans don't have an answer for that lady. they don't have a plan for her either. they, of course, called and said ed is wrong and quoting the american cancer society, mr. cantor is, and he's correct on this. wait a minute, time-out, time-out. i'm not the issue. mr. cantor, i will give you one hour, a full hour of "the ed show." you pick the day, new york or washington, let's get it on. what do you have for that lady? what do you have for that situation? a percentage? is that what you've got?

a percentage. some charity? you have nothing for her. but under the democrat bills, she wouldn't have a problem. my point in this, the republicans are coming to the table, allowing people to die because they will not put forward with the democrats a bipartisan proposal that would take care of that lady with cancer. i believe in her 40s, needs an operation according to her doctors, her income level was good, doesn't have insurance. gosh, things are pretty tough. in fact, there are millions of americans out there, and she's supposed to just go to a charity or a hospital and say i'm broke, can you help me out? republicans, you need to get in the real world. you need to focus on your own plan that will help that lady out. saying that you're going to

check her income level. i need you on this show, not with in other host. i'm going after the public option and i'm calling you out. i think you're a coward if you don't come face to face with me on this program. explain to me what the republicans are going to do for that lady with cancer, no job, no insurance. you basically told her she's in a percentage zone where she might not get help at all. is that who the republicans are? yes. last night, you know exactly what i was talking about. do i believe that all republicans want to see republicans die? no, i don't. but i want a plan from the republicans. i want them to come up and say if your life is that tough, and you've lost your job, no insurance, we're going to do the moral thing, we're going to do the american thing and help you out. the republicans can't do it. they won't do it. because they're about the money. it's all about the tax cuts. it's all about the big

insurance, the big pharma. it's all about living for the lobbyists. that's what they're doing. and for clarification, those of you who watch "the ed show" and listen to the radio show, you know exactly who i am and you know exactly where i'm coming from on this issue. and mr. cantor, let's go face-to-face, tell me what your plan is to take care of that lady. in fact, you know what? we could get that lady to come to our show and we could have a three-way conversation about what the republican party is willing to do for people in that situation. because right now, you have nothing! and that's the frustration. you want to know why you got 40 seats in the senate? because you never had an answer for americans like that. you want to know why you're in the minority in the house? because you don't have an answer for americans like that. the beat goes on, the fight goes on. it takes passion to get this done, progressives. we cannot back down. we need to call the republicans

out for what they are and what they do and do not stand for. about the public option, of course we got work to do on our side. rahm emanuel did an interview, of course, with charlie rose and talked about the public option and didn't seem to optimistic. here it is. >> health care will be passed before the members go home for thanksgiving and it will not -- the legislative process is a place where both bodies get to contribute. >> and it will not have a public option teacher? >> i do think, you know -- >> can it pass with a public option teach snerp >> i think the senate is clear with the prospects there. that doesn't mean in the house they're not going to demand it. >> my interpretation of that sound cut, my friends, is that rahm emanuel is not very confident about passing a public option in the senate. not real sure what's going to happen in the house, but don't

have the votes in the senate. i'm tired of being told we don't have the votes. we had an election. we've got barack obama in there. bottom line is, the lobbyist there is this 11th hour is winning this is what they are. and the republicans yesterday and the senate finance committee, heck, they wanted to buy more time. they wanted to delay the vote. chuck schumer will talk about that later on in this program. you know who the hero is in all of this for health care reform? the speaker of the house, nancy pelosi. she's never wavered on the public option. here it is. >> at the end of the day, a public option is the strongest lever that we can use to get the best possible outcome for america's working families. >> the best possible outcome. just remember one more thing about the republicans, if they're so wigged out about what i said. i do believe that the ranking member of the senate finance committee, chuck grassley, did

say that we're going to pull the plug on grandma. i do believe that some heavyweights in the republican party have been fearmongering, talking about death panels. so now we've got a decision to make. we have got to figure out how lefties, how we're going to get this done. if we want a public option, what are we going to do. are we going to throw barack obama under the bus, are we going to make demands, threaten these blue dogs and tell them if you don't come clean on this, we're going to vote you out and start this all over again. are we going to cave in to big insurance and have some watered down piece of garbage? and don't buy into this trigger, because what's the triger? who's going to pull the trigger? what mechanisms have to be in place before we get this trigger thing going? i'm a single payer guy. all problems are solved if you go single payer, repeal the bush tax cuts and go after the top 2%. and oh, by the way, 94% of the

american people who have medicare, they love it. 94%. you know what? if i had hit 94% of my passes, john madden and the oakland raiders, he would have never cut me. get your cell phones out. i want to know what you think on this. will president obama side with the senate or the house on a health care bill? text a for senate and b for house to 622639. we'll bring you the results later on in the show tonight. all right, joining me now is congressman chris van holland of maryland, chairman of the d triple c. i guess we're taking temperatures right now, chris. where do we stand in the house right now? what is the latest on a government-run option to give the private sector some competition, where do we stand

at this hour? >> the house is very strong, as the speaker said, it's the best way to hold insurance companies accountable, to give people the choice they need. it's an option. the only people who should be afraid of a public option are those insurance companies that don't want to compete fairly. those insurance companies that have been running up huge profits, who have been increasing their premiums. the public option will be a check on them. it will give consumers another choice, and obviously insurance companies, especially those in the parents of the country that have a monopoly, don't like that. the republicans, as you earlier indicated, have not put anything on the table. that little exchange with eric cantor was very revealing because the republicans said they were going to put their own proposal on the table 100 days ago. here days and days have passed. they've got nothing to show for it, because they're afraid that people will realize that the plan they're putting forward won't do the job. so they've been spending a lot

of time defending an insurance company that sent out a mailer using taxpayer dollars, because it's a taxpayer medicare provider, essentially providing disinformation to seniors and trying to scare them. the republicans have spent their time defending that insurance company. >> and it was senator kyle on the senate finance committee who went so far to say it's okay if they're sending out false information, because that's freedom of speech. getting back to that exchange that cantor had at that town hall meeting, i am correct when i say they've got nothing on the table for that cancer victim, right? >> they've got zero. and that -- i'm glad you exposed that. >> here's nancy pelosi on the trigger. here it is. >> the evidence seems to point at this caucus that a trigger is an excuse for not doing anything. i believe that the bill is the

trigger. if anybody wants -- i don't even want to talk about a trigger. whenever ready, i'll tell you where we're going to be. >> i like that. i like that response big-time. is the trigger just an excuse in your opinion, congressman? >> well, i think the speaker said it well and the lady's story, that's the trigger. the trigger is out there every day in america. people clearly need more choice and more competition. we need to make sure that you're not excluded based on preexisting conditions. that's why you need an affordable option. and the public option is part of a range of choices. to i think the problems we have today have already triggered the need for a public option and that's why we're fighting very hard in the house and we're hoping that as more people understand that the trigger is a device to hold insurance companies accountable, they will side with the public option and recognize we should not let the insurance industry have its way.

>> great to have you was. appreciate your time tonight. i also want to put up, if i can, a full screen here of the blue dogs. this is what nancy pelosi had to say about the blue dogs. her critics, within her caucus, say she's left the so-called majority makers exposed. they're seriously endangering their majority, said one blue dog. with the increased margin and a democratic president, there seems to be a different feeling. let's go on over to the senate side. we've got senator sherrod brown from ohio who is with us. senator, good to have use with us tonight. please address what kind of fight it's going to be between the democrats when it comes to some of the cuts to medicare and medicaid that are being proposed in the senate finance committee and those cuts do not exist in the senate health committee, take us down that road.

>> well, first of all, i talk for a second about what republicans say about these cuts. i went through the medicare privatization issue in 2003 with president bush. they cut medicare when they get a chance. they overwhelmingly on posed it in 1965. they've never been friends of medicare. we're not going to cut medicare. we are going to go after the insurance industry that gets, thanks to president bush in 2002 and '3, that gets huge subsidies from taxpayers to do medicare advantage. those kinds of subsidies are overdone. the insurance companies have played that game forever. they try to scare seniors. they're in a competition which one are trying to scare seniors more. >> senator, what is your response to rahm emanuel, and his interview with charlie rose

about not having enough votes for the public option in the senate? >> we'll get enough votes. listen, three committees in the house have passed a public option. democrats unanimously supported -- >> is he wrong? >> he's wrong because of this -- not every democrat right now would prefer the public option in the senate. i understand the 60-vote thing. but democrats, no democrat in the end is going to vote on a procedural question to kill the health care bill. at least 50 of the 60 democrats support the public option, at least 50. so it's going to be our choice more than the six or seven that's negative. >> to go reconciliation. >> no, i'm saying the 60 democrats will stay together on procedural questions and on final passage, some may vote against it, but i don't see that. the overwhelming majority of democrats and the country and doctors support the public option.

>> senator, good to have you with us tonight. coming up, a gun dealer called it the obama effect. america is armed and stores are running out of ammunition. 9 billion rounds sold this year. but first, a part-time census worker is found dead in a kentucky forest. the word "fed" scrawled across his chest. the fbi wants to know why. that's next on "the ed show" right here on msnbc. stay with us. when it comes to italian sauce, some people prefer this jar. but more people prefer this sauce. winner of the blind taste test. the sweet and savory taste of prego. it's in there.

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welcome back to "the ed show." the fbi is now investigating the death of a census worker. 51-year-old bill spartman was found dead tied to a tree in the daniel boone national forest in kentucky. the word "fed" f-e-d was scrawled across his chest. his body did have contact with the ground. he was an eagle scout, he moved to the area to be a director for the boy scouts. he was a substitute teacher and he worked part time for the census to earn extra money.

the official cause of death is listed as asphyxiation. it's not known yet if it was a homicide or a suicide. we do know it is a federal crime to attack a federal worker. joining us now is mark potak, director of the southern poverty intelligence project. good to have you with us tonight. it's horrific is what it is. there's no doubt that some people may be jumping to conclusions early. what is your opinion on what we know right now? what could this be? >> well, it's very hard to say. i think it's entirely possible that something happened that we don't know about that wasn't what it appears to be. in other words, apparently there are meth amphetamine labs in the area. it is possible he ran up on something like that. it is equally possible that, in fact, he was killed by someone

who saw him as an agent of the sort of nefarious federal government. this idea of government workers being the enemy goes all the way back to the militia movement of the '90s when forestry workers were seen really as enemies. by people in the so-called patriot organizations. we've seen a resurgence in the movement, and it seems possible this is an outcome of that. >> a retired state trooper who worked at the school with mr. spartman said he warned him about going door to door in that area. what does that sound like to you? >> i would not say that this part of kentucky is any more hot bed of anti-government sentiment than other rural areas of the country. however, that part of the country does have something of a tradition of suspicion of outsiders, going way back. having to do with labor struggles in the area, having to do with people coming in and

making documentaries that locals felt portrayed them badly and so on. i think the bottom line is it's a very rural area, and these are the kinds of areas where sometimes, you know, real white hot anti-government sentiment thrives. i think it's probably worth saying that i know that back in '95, immediately after the oklahoma city bombing, i remember "usa today" did a poll and found that 39% of americans at that time felt that the federal government was an imminent threat to their liberties as americans. quite incredible. i think that we are at a similar point in history right now, you know, where we've seen this anti-government sentiment very much my militia and the whole scene we've seen develop around town halls and so forth. >> thank you for your time tonight. we want to point out that the census bureau is suspending all

door-to-door work in that area. the investigation continues on. it has not been ruled a homicide. they don't know if it was a homicide or a suicide, and that is, as i said, under investigation. coming up, iowa congressman steve king is back, scaring the world about socialism. he's making the connection to same-sex marriage. you know where that stretch lands him? "psycho talk" coming up next on "the ed show." great claims service and a 97% customer satisfaction rate. show people really trust us. gecko: yeah right, that makes sense. boss: trust is key when talking about geico. you gotta feel it. why don't you and i practice that with a little exercise where i fall backwards and you catch me. gecko: uh no sir, honestly... uh...i don't think...uh... boss: no, no. we can do this. gecko: oh dear. vo: geico. fifteen minutes could save you 15% or more on car insurance. now there's new heart health advantage from bayer.

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oh, welcome back to "the ed show." "psycho talk" tonight, a dandy by the king of the whopper, iowa congressman steve king. mr. king has decided same-sex marriage is all part of the socialist agenda to undermine the foundations of individual rights and liberties. >> this is one of the goals they have to go to is same-sex marriage because it has to plow through marriage to get to their goal. they want public affirmation, access to public funds and resources. eventually all those resources will be pooled because that's the direction we're going. not only is it a radical social idea, it is a purely socialist concept in the final analysis. >> wow! okay, letting everyone have the same freedom undermines everybody's freedom, did i get that? you want some analysis, congressman king? a poll in your own state show that 92% of people in iowa think that allowing same-sex marriages

had absolutely no effect on their lives whatsoever. using anti-gay rhetoric to feed the paranoia is irresponsible, idiotic "psycho talk." coming up, a gun dealer calls it the obama effect. there is a shortage of ammunition in this country. people are stockpiling. you have to hear the numbers on this story, folks. they're staggering. but first, insurance companies will get 30 million more customers if there's a mandate to buy health insurance. but there is no guaranty that they won't be gouging you. california lieutenant governor john garamendi will join me coming up next. you're watching "the ed show" on msnbc.

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welcome back to "the ed show." and the health care debate. there are all these terms being

thrown around like mandate. what's that mean? here's what a mandate means to you. the sharks are in the water, and we're going to be thrown in there and forced to swim with them. lawmakers want to force people to buy insurance. that means everybody has to buy a policy. but they don't have the backbone to put rate caps on how much insurance companies can charge. this is a sticking point. so now the taxpayers are going to do what? possibly get gouged again even further? for more, let me bring in an expert on this, lieutenant governor of california, john garamendi. john, good to see you again. good to have you with us. >> good to be with you, ed. >> tell us, competition is the key thing. you've got alabama, north dakota, in your state of california, it just seems like there's one provider getting the massive amounts of business. is this a problem in your

opinion? is the gouging going on because of this? >> well, in part it certainly is. also, there's literally no control on the cost of health care, the premiums can be whatever the insurance companies want to charge you. this is where the mandate comes in and really concerns me, because as i said, you're tossing 30 million people to the sharks. the sharks being the insurance companies out there that are literally able to charge whatever they want to charge now, and particularly the senate legislation will be able to continue to charge, because there is no market. that's what the public option is all about.

it gives market discipline. it's a public option. lit be a price that hopefully we can afford, and it's one that the insurance companies will be forced to match. if that public option isn't there, we're in deep trouble. >> what about the state of california? the seventh largest economy on the face of the earth. is it absolutely imperative that you get some competition from these big insurance providers? >> absolutely. in the f year, the major health insurance companies in california denied benefits, denied claims and turned people away. pacific care, 40% of the claims that came to them and the request for certain benefits were denied. blue chose, 27%. cigma, 32%. it's not the government --

>> john, the senate finance committee seems to be bent on a co-op or exchange. but that too would have oversight or should we say the rules would be made by the insurance industry, or am i wrong on that? >> right now, one of the versions of the senate bill would be -- would give to the national association of insurance commissioners the power to write the rules. that's a bunch of toothless wonders. i worked with them. they never put for the a strong consumer protection regulation. if they're left to write it, that organization is dominated by the insurance companies. ed, earlier on in this show, you gave the solution. if we simply did what 43 years ago we did for every senior, and that is to provide them with a government option called medicare, we could solve this problem and there's enough savings in the administration to provide care for everybody. >> and finally, what about rate caps? would a co-op or would an exchange work if there was some regulation put on the insurance industry and if there was some kind of a rate cap that had to do with someone's income, would you go along or think that would be a workable solution? >> we still need the public option. bottom line, you got to have the public option. rate regulation is tough.

it is very, very difficult to do. i've done it for eight years in my life. i had to fight the insurance industry all the way to the supreme court to put rate regulation in the property casualty business here in california, homeowners and autos. it has worked but it is a tough situation. here you're talking about 360 million, not just the 35 million people in california. i really prefer to see that public option in place so that the market itself, regulated by a public company that's out there, providing a package of benefits that the insurance companies have to compete with, i think that's the best way to go. without it, you absolutely have to have a rate regulation system or otherwise we are swimming with the sharks. >> california lieutenant governor john garamendi here with us on "the ed show." we'll call on you again as this debate and conversation continues in this country. >> thank you. joe madison, xm radio talk show host with us tonight. also, former congressman ernest

esta. good to have you with us. ernie, we'll start with you tonight. very damaging piece of town hall videotape for mr. cantor. a scenario presented to him by a constituent. a woman doesn't have any coverage. the republicans don't have a plan for that. i want you to respond to that. what do the republicans have for someone, that lady who has cancer, lost her job? he told her to go to a charity. >> right now she had an immediate problem. she wasn't trying to wait for what congress may do that might not have impact. having town hall meetings lots of times, people come with individual problems and you try to treat them as an individual. you go to groups that are doing things right now. and i saw your response there. republicans don't want people to die, ed. they want people to be taken care of and -- >> if they don't, and i'm not saying broad based all republicans want to see people

die. what i'm saying is that's her option. to financial ruin or death. and the republicans, there's five bills on the table in the congress, you know this. all of them have a public option that would address her situation, preexisting condition and give her care and she doesn't have that. >> there are dozens of bill that are pending right now. the five that you talk about, none of them would do anything for her immediate circumstance. she needs to deal with organizations that exist right now. >> she could get insurance. she would not be denied -- earnest, come on. joe, you got to get in on this. >> i'm sitting here and realizing what the whole purpose of that exchange was about. she's not buy herself. the point is that she's representative of literally,

probably tens of thousands, if not hundreds of thousands of people who are in the same position. this is what i think the democrats are going to have to do. and that is to use these human stories. it wasn't just the case that she needed help right now. what she was saying, i have this situation, i'm not buy myself. what do we do? those of us who have that situation, and let's go back. this whole thing of public options, i think bobby scott was in this town hall meeting, and i talked with bobby scott this week, and he said that -- just what you had said, that time after time in that discussion, they kept throwing suggestions, throwing suggestions and cantor didn't have a single suggestion. >> you can do some things to address people that are the hard core uninsured. >> such as? >> which is a much smaller number. >> he asked her what her income

level was. >> right now, we have 135,000 pages of government regulations on insurance coverage. you think that doesn't drive the cost up? you don't have the ability for carriers to compete across state lines. >> it's not about cost, it's about what's on the table for that lady in virginia who has got cancer, who lost her job. there's no help for her at all. and the must bes won't sign on to that. >> i don't see the connect between an individual situation, who lost -- >> that's the point. >> you're trying to say that she is why you have to remake 1/6th of the american economy. >> she's not alone. i don't care if it's half the american economy, we have got to stop that in this country. >> but don't destroy the health coverage that over 250 million

americans have -- >> why not? 94% of the american people -- >> do no harm. >> that's a slogan getting a little worn out for me. we're not talking about do no harm. the reality is, if for some reason i'm unemployed right now -- let me give you an example. i've got a 3-year-old grandson sitting at home right now watching teach. his mother happens to be unemployed no fault of her own. if something happens and that child is seriously injured while she is away, what option does she have? >> you're saying you have to throw everything out -- >> no, i'm saying expand medicare and she's going to be just fine and take away the preexisting condition. i was the moderator today of a big discussion of the congressional black caucus annual convention today here in washington, d.c., which was hosted by congressman john

conyers, who obviously is pushing hard for single payer. he says that the democrats have capitulated. but to your point, joe, what they believe needs to be done is that the stories, the human interest stories like that lady in virginia who needs surgery right now, and has no options, and no help whatsoever, i don't know why the republicans won't do something. >> ed, i have on my blackberry right now a lady who called my show who was -- had an advanced degree, lost her job, working for again motors, i believe, or alison company, in indiana. she is now on her last paycheck. she now has no insurance. she does not know what she's going to do. >> welcome to america. >> why isn't she working with medicaid then? we have public programs for this already.

>> but not for everybody. we're a better country than that. we can do this for everybody. >> but then you have republicans who want to cut medicare. coming up, a shortage of ammunition in this country. bullet makers can't make the ammo fast enough for americans and they are stockpiling weapons. paul helmky joins me next to tell what's going on. stay with us. product do women think is best?

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and anti-pain medications in the world. from pain killer to life saver, bayer aspirin is the wonder drug that works wonders. hey thanks for the window seat. oh please. you got the presentation? oh yeah right here. let me stow that for you, sir. thank you. you know, just to be safe i used fedex office print online. oh you did? yeah -- they printed and bound 20 copies of the presentation, shipped it to portland, they're gonna be there waiting for us. that's a good idea. yeah. you have a nice flight. thank you. (announcer) print online...you upload your document -- we'll take care of the rest. we're shopping for car insurance, and our friends said we should start here. good friends -- we compare our progressive direct rates, apples to apples, against other top companies, to help you get the best price. how do you do that? with a touch of this button. can i try that? [ chuckles ] wow!

good luck getting your remote back. it's all right -- i love this channel. shopping less and saving more. now, that's progressive. call or click today. ♪ ♪ which one's me - for a cool convertible or an suv? ♪ ♪ too bad i didn't know my credit was whack ♪ ♪ 'cause now i'm driving off the lot in a used sub-compact. ♪ ♪ f-r-e-e, that spells free credit report dot com, baby. ♪ ♪ saw their ads on my tv ♪ thought about going but was too lazy ♪ ♪ now instead of looking fly and rollin' phat ♪ ♪ my legs are sticking to the vinyl ♪ ♪ and my posse's getting laughed at. ♪ ♪ f-r-e-e, that spells free- credit report dot com, baby. ♪ in my "playbook" tonight, the play is dangerous. bullet makers working around the clock and they can't keep up with the nation's demand for ammunition, shooting ranges, gun

dealers and manufacturers say they've never seen shortages like this before. jason gregory, who manages gun works just outside new orleans, louisiana, says it's because of the president. i call it the obama effect, he says. it always happens when the democrats get into office, it happened with clinton and obama is even stronger for gun control. ammo will be the first step, so i'm stocking up while i can. joining me now is paul helmky, the president of the brady campaign to prevent gun violence. what do you make of this? is it barack obama, a democratic president, or is it all the rhetoric that has been thrown around at some of these tea parties around this country and the fearmongering taking place, what do you think? >> i think you hit the hammer on the head with that last part of the statement. this is craziness. sadly, no one is talking about doing anything about ammunition, which is what kills people, not just the guns, the ammunition that comes out of them. the fellow you just quoted, he

was quoted this morning saying he wanted to make sure he had 1,000 rounds for every one of the 25 guns that he's got stockpiled. that's crazy. nobody is trying to do any restrictions. secondly, i'm not sure why he thinks he needs 25,000 rounds of ammunition. i'm not sure who he's planning on fighting unless it's our military, our police forces. if anything, this whole debate shows we ought to be doing more to keep dangerous people away from these weapons. and the ammunition. right now it's illegal for them to buy, but we don't require to do background checks. you can order ammunition over the internet. >> i guess you can say that barack obama is good for the economy, if that's the way it is. background checks are up 25% the first six months of this year. what about the iraq-afghanistan situation, do you think that is fueling the shortage in any way? >> quite clearly. we're fighting two wars, so they need guns and ammunition for that.

our police departments continue to need guns and ammunition. i was the mayor in ft. wayne, indiana, ran a police department. everyone wants to make sure that their police departments are strong and dealing with crime. but a lot of this is just, you know, last year the nra spent the entire year trying to scare people into barack obama is going to take your guns away. and it didn't help change the election for the nra, but it helped sell the guns and the ammunition that their members make money on. it's bad for the rest of the country. one of the reasons i'm in l.a. today is to try to get people to talk -- contact governor schwarzenegger to sign a bill passed by the california legislature that would require people selling ammunition to actually check the identification of the people they're selling to, get a thumb print, hopefully do a background check, keep it away -- or you can just pick pocket it easily.

>> finally, paul, does your organization advocate taxing ammunition? >> right now there is a tax on ammunition. i don't believe it's been raised since the early 1950s. and i think it's appropriate when we look at our tax code to look at whether that needs to go up. that's one of the fear tactics that the nra talked about last year. sadly the obama administration is not talking about it and in congress the only thing they talk about with guns is weakening the restrictions. >> so fear, your analysis would be all this fearmongering is causing this, and it's an overreaction, that's basically where you're at? >> clearly an overreaction but it shows how weak our laws are. >> appreciate your time tonight. we should point out 9 billion rounds, 9 billion rounds of ammunition were purchased last

year. that's gone up another 2 billion this year. appreciate your time tonight. coming up, senator chuck schumer joins me live from capitol hill with news about the senate and the public option. you're watching "the ed show" on msnbc. stay with us. you don't want to miss this interview. chef's meal with pommes frites perhaps a night at the theater with extra special seats additional hotel night, our treat your world in perfect harmony: priceless look for world on your mastercard to get rewards and offers that matter to you. i just want fewer pills and relief that lasts all day. take 2 extra strength tylenol every 4 to 6 hours?!? taking 8 pills a day... and if i take it for 10 days -- that's 80 pills.

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welcome back to "the ed show." it's been a very intense several days for the senate finance committee. there may be a vote coming up as early as tomorrow. for more on that, let's go to

new york senator chuck schumer on the line with us, and just got out of a meeting. noter, good to have you on tonight. what can you tell us about the status of how this is moving? will there be a vote coming up soon? >> yeah, there will be a vote on public option. there will be a vote on many other provisions. we had quite a fight today about how much to give -- how much to go after pharma. and i think it's just beginning. and i think the more the public focuses, the better the progressive forces will do. the more they learn what a public option, that it is an option, a choice that will create real competition and bring their cost down, the more they like it. the more they understand how we want to help affordability and make insurance more affordable. a lot of this debate, in august it was all the lies and it's been sort of muddled. i think there's a lot of focus on the committee, and it's a voting process and educational

process. one time thought, ed. for progressives it gets better and better. in other words, the finance committee is our toughest field of battle, because it's the most conservative. the senate floor is better than the finance committee and the house and the conference commitly will be better than the senate. so i believe that the bill the president sign also have a good, strong public option. >> now, in the senate finance committee, is there a chance of the public option passing because there has been so much pressure and so much competition, so much talk about competition in the private sector to bring these rates down? is there a chance that the senate finance committy in your opinion could shift gears? >> it's an uphill fight but i'm busy lobbying my members. and i think there's a chance, the difficulty, of course, is that the republicans are adamantly against it. so it's uphill, but there's a chance. and there's a much better chance on the senate floor and a much better chance in conference.

>> okay, now the version of a public option, would you accept what is coming out of the senate health committee or would you want something stronger? >> i would prefer something stronger but i think the version out of the senate health committee is a darn good one and would be supportive of that if that gets the 60 votes if a stronger one couldn't. >> when is this vote going to take place? >> probably going to be tomorrow, that's right. >> okay. senator schumer, appreciate your time. >> thanks, ed. sorry to be at the tail end here. just a busy day. >> it was tough to get you to a camera because you just got out of a meeting. thank you, senator schumer. so what does this mean? in means, progressives, if you want a public option to come out, you know how to e-mail and call. this would be your night to do that. earlier i asked you what you thought about this, will president obama side with the senate or a house bill on health

care? 30% of you said senate. 70% said house. "hardball" is next. this is "the ed show." back tomorrow night at 6:00. the democrats have 60. let's play "hardball." good evening. i'm mike barnicle, in today for chris matthews. leading off tonight, filibuster proof. the democrats got their 60th senator today. massachusetts governor deval patrick named paul kirk, chief ally and former chairman of the democratic national committee to temporarily fill ted kennedy's seat until next year's special election. kirk is expected to be a reliable vote for the democrats' health care reform plan, which was ted kennedy's long-fought mission. and the man who appointed him, governor deval patrick, will be here tonight. next, president obama told

the united nations general assembly that he is seeking a new era of engagement with the world, but can an extended hand prompt world leaders to solve the name international problems that vexed the bush administration, like iran's nuclear ambitions, middle east peace and afghanistan? and playing the victim. new york governor david paterson sure has a strange way of pushing back on president obama's suggestion that he not run. first, his wife said it was, quote, very unfair, unquote, of the white house to discourage the first african-american governor of new york from running. and then governor paterson himself said he never really wanted this job and was hoping for hillary clinton's senate seat. is paterson any match for the obama machine? plus, president obama wasn't the only one who embarked in an all-out media blitz. bill clinton has been making the rounds himself, and he may be one of obama's best salesmen for health care reform. that's in the "politics fix."