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coming up on "msnbc sunday," the past comes back to haunt him. roman polanski under arrest more than 30 years after leaving the us tuesday elude the law. ahead, iran launch as missile test. what does it mean for the nuclear tensions with the west. piecing the plot together. how close did the terror suspects come to unleashing an attack? and swept away, the helpless and the hopeless caught in the rage of unforgiving flood waters. it's high hopes for a cure in record breaking fashion. good morning everyone. i'm contessa brewer in for alex witt. we have a lot going on. at 11:00 eastern, here is a look what's happening on "msnbc sunday." new this morning on "meet

the press," reaction to the announcement that by iran that it successfully test fired short range missiles, ahead of a meeting scheduled for thursday by the u.s. and its allies regarding iran's nuclear program. >> talking is counterproductive than productive because time is not on our side. all the iranians need is time to develop their weaponry. >> i think what we have right now is a way, a process in place where we can really start to explore what the iranians what their intentions are. this is the value of opening up the dialogue in the way we're going to see in the coming weeks. >> i'm joined by mike viqueira at the white house today. how does the white house see these announcements and how does it set the stage, make, for this week's nuclear talks? >> reporter: of course the bad news is that iran had south to covertly develop the facility under this mountainous terrain

and tunnels, a facility they say can only be used to convert weapons grade material t. good news is that it came as such a shock and the fact that iran was caught red handed that allies normally reluctant or powers normally reluctant to come down hard on iran are now on board heading into these key meetings that begin on thursday. on one side you have iran, on the other side you'll have the united states, france, great britain, germany, but you also have china and russia the countries that have been reluctant in the past to really impose sanctions that bite in the words of president obama the other day. so heading into that and two days after the revelation, i think a lot of this is going to be viewed this missile firing is going to be viewed for domestic iranian consumption, the resheem, supposed to be taken aback by the revelation by president obama, gordon brown

and nicolas sarkozy. >> while president obama has that, he has to come out of some sort of morass. the top commander general mcchrystal says he was blind sided by how strong the taliban was this summer. what's the discussion right now in terms of giving general mcchrystal what he's asking for in terms of additional troops? >> reporter: i think general mccaffrey said it best the last hour. you have a president that promised during the campaign to shift the focus to afghanistan, this after all he said is where al qaeda took root, where the terrorism took root that ended up in the events of 9/11 and the taliban that ran afghanistan allowed that to happen. this now is the longest war in american history. and on the other hand you've got sinking public support, sinking democratic support in the president's party on capitol hill, nancy pelosi said the votes aren't there to extend the assignment or put more troops into afghanistan. and you've got a cost factor of

4 to $5 billion a month to send this some 40,000 more troops the reported amount that mcchrystal is asking for. the president face as major decision here in the coming weeks. secretary gates said on one of the morning show programs that he has that mcchrystal report, he got it friday but he's going to sit on it, he said, until they straighten out what the strategy is going to be. that's sure to controversial heading into the week. >> thank you very much. afghanistan and iran the topics of discussion on today's meet the press when david gregory speaks with senators john kyle and jim webb. watch that this afternoon 2:00 eastern time on msnbc. obama administration officials say they are in the final stages of picking a u.s. location to house terror suspects currently held at guantanamo bay. officials are trying to meet the deadline to close git-mo by january. three prisoners were transferred to yemen and ireland. 223 terror suspects still are

detained there at the military prison. breaking news right now from switzerland, director roman polanski has been arrested on a 31-year-old warrant. joining us from london with the latest nbc's tom aspell. how did this develop? >> reporter: hi. roman polanski was arrested sart evening at the request of the united states. the 76-year-old director was traveling to zurich to receive a lifetime achievement award. a swiss spokesman says the arrest was carried out on instructions from the federal justice department. he is being held at a swiss jail pending an extradition request from the united states. polanski fled the u.s. to live in france in 1978, a year after pleading guilty to unlawful sexual intercourse with a 13-year-old girl. he has been careful to travel only to country where his crime was not covered by extradition treaties but the u.s. has been seeking his arrest for three years. polanski directed classics

"china town" and "rosemary's baby." he was once married to sharon tate murdered in 1969. polanski's career continued in france, he received an oscar for the 2002 movie "the pianist" and sought dismissal of his american case on grounds of misconduct by the now deceased judge who polanski said arrange add plea bargain and reneged on the deal. >> he may be wishing he accepted the award in absentia. saturday a gathering of friends and family of student annie le. she was laid to rest in her hometown of placerville during the memorial her mother read a poem honoring her daughter. her mom told the man who was supposed to become her son-in-law that she did love him like a son. annie le was supposed to marry jonathan widawsky.

police found her body stuffed in a wall where she worked. her co-worker raymond clark is charged with her murder. to the new questions around najibullah zazi. how did he transform from a coffee vendor at a cart in new york into an alleged terror suspect? "the new york times" looks at how zazi changed after two trips to pakistan in 2006 and 2007. each time he came back looking more like a devout muslim. prosecutors say it was a transformation into a full-blown terrorist. joining me is former cia special agent jack rice. if you're one of the prosecutors looking at this case, how do those trips to pakistan, jack, fit into the overall picture of zazi as a man who was plotting a major attack against americans? >> as a former prosecutor myself so i have to think how i would argue this to a jury. what you have to show is the transformation from where early on he would say i love america,

to the statements that he makes ongoing month after month, year after year to establish how he shifted in his own mind, then what you do is you overlay all of the evidence that you have in terms of the experiences that he acquired in pakistan, ability to learn bomb making, willingness to buy chemicals to take the further actions as part of this conspiracy. you tie them together, you put those in front of a jury to prove it wasn't just hypothetical. he wasn't going to change his hair color. he was going to create bombs and he did it because he hated america. that's how you loop this together. >> and yet his family members describe him bluntly as stupid. so if a stupid man can go out and find the ingredients to make a bomb, to get the training to do it and again, prosecutors say he was a couple weeks away from capacity to build an explosive, what does it say about how difficult the challenge is for

law enforcement to break these plots before they happen? >> i think this really highlights how complicated this is, how difficult this is. in some ways it's easier if you find the people who are connected directly to al qaeda. you can find their names around the world and you track them back to the united states. what happens when you all of a sudden where the one kid, the one guy who has no connection to any known terrorist group, who has no connection, he doesn't go on the internet and say something or do something stupid. he's out there by himself. he acquire this is information. these are the people that keep people up at night because you don't know how to find them. if they don't sort of raise themselves to the profile where they will be found until something terrible happens. >> evan coleman was saying the problem is not everyone who wants to attack americans on american soil is stupid. two, the fact is that unless there are these sort of tip-offs how do you come across this? three is that now we're talking about the details how they

tracked him down, busted him. those are mistakes that other people can avoid in the future. do you suspect that the fbi, that local police departments are staying one step ahead of people who intend to harm americans? >> they are trying to. if the we think about this kid in dallas, this guy in springfield, illinois, these were wannabes. >> or north carolina with the military personnel in their sights. >> there is another example. these are wannabes at best. those are the people you can grab, the low hanging fruit, the ones that you can wrap up simply and they have very simply. it's the others, that really is the barrier. in some ways zazi is different because of the expertise and the connections to pakistan, versus these other three. versus the dallas case and the springfield, illinois case. but the difficulty is sort of reaching up that tree and finding those who have real expertise, real experience and

are smart enough to realize if i don't raise my profile i can blend into 350 million people in this country. >> jack, you are smart to point that out. thanks. >> you bet. fears of foul-ups at a fertility clinic, the place shut down. could there be more mothers receiving traumatic news. also ahead a top video on youtube and it's in the entertainment category and it was for the folks in the crowd. i know you want to know what it is. we'll show you ahead.

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new this morning, two americans are among six nato forces killed in afghanistan today t. americans died in two separate incidents. a roadside bomb and insurgent attack. also today afghanistan's energy minister survived an

assassination attempt t. washington post says the president scheduled at least five meetings with his security team on the situation in afghanistan and pakistan. the first meeting is tuesday. let's go to washington now. a.b. stoddard, columnist with "the hill" newspaper. what disagreement might be happening in the walls of the white house whether to agree to general mcchrystal's request for more troops? >> there is a robust debate in the white house and really splitting the top minds on the issue. you have vice president joe biden lining up with chief of staff rahm emanuel, with jim jones, with general colin powell and several democratic senators like john kerry who are saying before any kind of even to be even contemplate an increase in troops there, we must really clarify the mission and refine the strategy, so let's not even think about the number of troops

until we come up with a new mission, very clarified, very clear strategy. and then we can ask general mcchrystal if he believes that with a new strategy we should increase the level of troops there. and that is -- you have on the other side of course hillary clinton, secretary of state and richard holbrooke and others obviously general mcchrystal advocating for an increase of force right away or we're going to face failure there. >> we keep hearing we have to make sure the strategy is correct, we have to make sure what our strategy is. what's unclear about our strategy right now? >> well, there is this debate about whether or not al qaeda will even return. is the goal to keep al qaeda out of pakistan which is al qaeda is thriving -- sorry, if the goal is keep al qaeda out of afghanistan, not allow them to return there. of course they are thriving in pakistan, then what are our goals in afghanistan?

those are the questions being asked. how much can we mitigate the threat of the taliban there, and what is the danger of that weighed against what al qaeda has been able to do in pakistan. that's why the arguments from vice president biden and others about not increasing troops in afghanistan is the that we need to focus on our resources on pakistan, that's where our biggest threat lies. so, that's a complex debate with no easy answers, really both camps obviously have a very strong argument. >> it's interesting, too, when you hear people who are reluctant to commit to sending more troops in ask, to what end? what would we consider success in afghanistan? and if you look at what happened with the soviet union entering, they were there for a decade or so, it failed. their mission wasn't clear and the exit strategy just opened up a vacuum, a power vacuum that allowed to taliban to come in and really claim all of this

power which then in turn led to them hiding al qaeda for so long. so in this case do we have a clear mission, a clear picture what if victory in afghanistan would look like to us? >> no. i don't think that president obama has really defined that for the american people which is why you see support for continued war there, losing, you know, diminishing, really, by the month. and i think that until -- that's why you see him in a pause right now as his team tries to come up with a really clarified strategy because they have not really produced very clear bench marks for success there. until they do, you're not going to see the public support for it and i think that you're not going to resolve this internal debate in the administration itself. >> a.b., good to see you. >> thank you. a break for the weekend, president obama, the first lady, even bo the dog to cheer malia at a soccer game. the president stwood the other parents for about a half hour out there.

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manual control plus deep cleaning power. the oral-b pulsar. a frozen embryo scandal in louisiana has forced a fertility clinic to close. at least two lawsuits have been filed against the center in suburban new orleans. officials at the clinic say its staff mislabeled or misplaced frozen embryos belonging to about 100 patients. they maintain no embryo was implanted in the wrong woman. lisa green is a legal analyst and msnbc news producer. how can they make that claim no embryo was not implanted in the wrong woman if 100 were miss labelled? >> we a lot more to find out about this disaster and of course as you mow it comes on the heels of this extraordinary case in ohio where a woman just gave birth on friday to a baby not her embryo, she is turning that baby over to the biological

parents. this has been going on, this louisiana situation, for at least a month. it seems as if the hospital has decided you know, we better get in front of this story and let people know. >> so they stopped these ivs, you can't do it until you get to the bottom of what went wrong. what about the patient who is have been going to the clinic, the fear that must be going through their minds now. >> you know, it's unimaginable. it's so sad. the hospital has been doing everything -- what they have been doing right, the one thing is coming out in front of the story, being apologetic. but boy, you think about the lawyers, there are two class action lawsuits potentially already filed. it's hard to imagine these cases ever getting before a jury. can you imagine the testimony of these couples, these patients, talking about how they feel now that they learned that their embryos -- >> the next step for these lawsuits i imagine the lawyers are saying well, sorry, but i mean, is genetic testing part of

that? if you're going to move forward on a class action suit, not just the fear but what if the children are not theirs >> i think obviously they will immediately not implant embryos when they aren't certain of the origin. the second thing is it's money and these lawsuits seek damages and it's unimaginable there won't be settlements. those do little or nothing to help the underlying pain. there is an interesting twist in louisiana. lawmakers there passed a law embryos are considered judicial persons and have the right to sue as well. >> but how can that be? if you have -- i mean, if all of a sudden embryos are persons with the right to sue, what does that mean for abortion? >> well, you know, it's a take on that legislature's decision to decide at what point do legal rights begin. it means you could see lawsuits brought on behalf of the embryos which sounds unusual. secondly the embryos can never be destroyed in louisiana.

so one, yet another layer of interest in this already extraordinarily amazing case. what happens to the layers -- >> the layers of lawsuits on this? >> and the hospital must be 24/7 thinking about what possible legal strategy works. how can they defend themselves. i suspect there's a lot more we'll hear why this went so wrong. >> appreciate it. she was last seen leaving a police station more than a week ag ago. we'll talk about the spokesperson next. you were right. these healthy choice fresh mixer thingys, they taste fresh... say it again! they taste fresh. wait. what are you doing? got it. you're secretly taping me? cook it fresh, strain it fresh, mix it fresh, healthy choice fresh mixers, look for it in the soup or pasta aisle. you weren't always my favorite day. with all the pet hair in the air,

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(announcer) find it in the allergy aisle now your card comes with a way to plan for what matters to you. introducing blueprint. blueprint is free and only for chase customers. it lets you choose what purchases you want to pay in full to avoid interest...with full pay. and those you split... you decide how to pay over time. if having a plan matters. chase what matters. create your own blueprint at chase.com/blueprint. welcome back to msnbc on this sunday. i'm contessa brewer. topping news at the half hour, a desperate search for a california woman who disappeared mysteriously. 24-year-old mitrice richardson was last seen more than a week

ago when she was released from an l.a. sheriff's station in a remote area after 1:00 in the morning. more than 135 officers and volunteers are searching a 60 square mile area near malibu. with me is the family attorney. set the scene for me in terms of the family's perspective of what happened to mitrice after she was detain fwid sheriff's department. >> they believe that the sheriff's department is responsible. they felt that the department had enough information to hold mitrice richardson and not let her leave at 12:30 in the middle of the night in an area she was unfamiliar with. the reason for that belief is because they were aware that she was exhibiting bizarre behavior, conduct that didn't make sense, and that they should have taken some type of precaution, pring in some type of medical practitioner to exam her. >> why did the deputies detain

her in the first place? >> that's an excellent question. they were called by the restaurant because apparently she -- mitrice did not pay her bill. the innkeeper said she was exhibiting bizarre behavior. she sat down with strangers who did not know who she was. and she exhibited conduct and made comments that were bizarre. they came there, they approached her, and then they tried to work out the payment of the bill. the grandmother agreed to pay the bill. apparently that wasn't enough. they decided to arrest her at the restaurant. >> so, steve whitemore from the l.a. county sheriff's department spoke with alex witt yesterday. let me play his response to all of this. >> we obviously did everything we believe not only procedurally correct but what we believe to be right. our civilian jailer, for example, known as custody assistants, said to miss richardson if you want to stay the night i encourage you to do

so. she didn't want to do that. and we have no legal right to keep somebody past their time. >> you know, leo, the sheriff's department arguing she's an adult woman, she was already out that night. and that they didn't have a legal right to keep her behind bars for the evening. what's your response? >> steve white more is respectfully wrong. the legal basis for arresting her provided the legal basis for detaining her and keeping her in the jail. there is a statute or a phrase called 51-50. that is a hold on an individual who might need medical assistance. they didn't even contemplate that, contessa, notwithstanding the fact they were personally aware of her bizarre behavior that night and the mother called and said that she wasn't herself. one other interesting fact, the mother called and said i want to come pick up my daughter. they said don't worry, we'll

keep her overnight. overnight wasn't 12:30. they let her out in an area that is 60 miles away from home without transportation. >> and we described it as a remote industrial area. the other thing is police say they found a small amount of marijuana in her car. i would think if you found someone in possession of an illegal substance that would be grounds for keeping them in custody, especially, especially if the restaurant had described her as acting bizarre, and had been one of the contributing factors toward detaining her. >> you are correct. you look at the totality of the circumstances, the marijuana in her car, the innkeeper's statement she was acting bizarre, the mother's comments, i can't imagine a medical practitioner not saying that's enough evidence to have her examined and to keep her. there is something called the watch commander's oath, the sergeant of the station could have held her based on those statements. >> leo, are you optimistic that she's just lost or somewhere and

she, because of the bizarre nature of her behavior doesn't realize that her family is looking for her. >> that's what we hope. when i spoke to you earlier i called the mother. the mother is tremendously grieving. it came to reality last night and this morning. >> grieving? >> grieving the sense of just being so sad about not finding her daughter. and really, this could have been avoided but for the sheriff's department misconduct. >> listen, i mentioned the more than 100 people out searching for her. i'm keeping my fingers crossed you have good news today. >> thank you. police are asking anyone with information on mitrice to call the los angeles police department missing persons unit. 213-485-5381 or 877-lapd-24-7. >> a woman who had gotten out of

jail for bank robbery is reportedly back at it. she hit six banks, the latest yesterday in connecticut. brown was recently released from prison for a bank robbery three years ago. authorities say each robbery has the same pattern t the woman goes in, cameras capture her, walks up to an employee, says she has a bomb and is given money and walks out. they hope to track her down. at least 106 are dead and missing after a powerful tropical storm swept through the region. in the video look at these people on a floating raft of debris, the flood waters sweeping them downstream. tropical sto you might imagine the flash floods and the land slides that resulted more than 330,000 people estimated to be affected by this storm. it's being described as the worst flooding in that region in more than 40 years. today new word on how the united states and its five

allies are looking to press iran during face-to-face talks later this week. the plan to demand immediate and unfettered access to iran's newly exposed nuclear facility. today secretary of defense robert gates addressed the situation. he says it could force more economic penalties against iran, already struggling with three sets of u.n. sanctions. >> ply view has been there has been an opportunity through the use of diplomacy and economic sanctions to persuade the iranians to change their approach to nuclear weapons. the reality is there is no military option that does anything more than buy time. >> michael is a contributing editor and reporter. we got the news today michael, that iran has test fire add couple of short-range missiles successfully and plans to test-fire a long range missile tomorrow. how will that affect these talks

that happen on thursday? >> well, certainly ratchets tensions up. in some ways i think it's interpreted as a poke in the eye of western countries to have this -- these tests right after the disclosure on friday in pittsburgh about the secret nuclear facility. i think -- and certainly the missile tests are being watched closely in israel. the long-range test being scheduled for tomorrow is the one that the israelis are certainly the most worried about. that's a long-range missile that could potentially hit israel. so, you have -- i mean this is significant development even if the iranians have done this before. the real news here is you know, you have secretary gates saying that military option sort of downplaying that, saying it wouldn't -- it would only buy some time. the only other alternative is

the economic one, economic sanctions. you have a lot of people in congress talking about that. particularly gasoline sanctions but the real issue there is you know, disclosure the other day that the chinese have been -- begun selling refined gasoline to iran. what effect, how effective can economic sanctions be if they don't include the chinese and the russians. that's the question on the table. >> effective for whom. if you look at who this impacts, you have unemployment among young people at 40%. inflation at 20% in august. in iran. so economic sanctions affect not just the people who make the decisions about nuclear programs and test firing missiles but people at the bottom of the food chain. >> right. but i mean, if anybody thought iran was -- anything close to being a democracy they certainly were disillusioned by what happened during the recent iranian elections and the

protests over that and how it was suppressed. it's not clear that the iranian leadership is particularly concerned about its people. it clearly made the choice to proceed with the nuclear program in spite of the economic hardships. >> given the fact that we united states are moving forward on diplomacy, we're going to these talks with these other nations, is there any concern about while we hold back on military action at least that's the way it looks right now, that there are other countries, potentially israel, who may not. >> well, israel is the player here, the ones that have been threatening military action against iran. look. you know, it's very hard to know the israeli's certainly have a lot of factors that they are going to calculate before making a decision. certainly one is going to be

what kind of signal do they get from the obama administration as to how much a military strike would be viewed with disfavor. we don't know the answer to that question. i'm not sure the white house knows the answer to the question at this point. but certainly, yeah, the white house has made a clear decision to put the spotlight on this and they are hoping, i think, that they will see results in geneva when the talks commence later this week. >> michael, thank you for making time for us this sunday. >> thank you. for all of the latest on iran including today's short range missile test log on to msnbc.com. >> a story about nature, nurture and the nation. a fitting tribute from the one and only ken burn. we'll talk to him next. [ male announcer ] the oral-b pulsar looks like an ordinary manual brush until you turn it on. its deep cleaning vibrating bristles break up plaque between teeth for an enhanced deep clean.

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treasure house of nature. 84 million acres of the most stunning landscapes anyone has ever seen. including a mountain so massive it creates its own weather. >> from yosemite to yellowstone, from the grand canyon to the grand tetons, award winning filmmaker ken burns makes the national parks the star of his documentary. it took a decade to make this tribute to the parks and the people. the national park, america's best idea is a 12-hour, 6-part series that premieres on pbs. ken burns. good to see you. >> good morning, contessa. >> talk to me about what you wanted to accomplish when you tackled the national parks. >> we didn't want to tell a travelog or nature film. we wanted to tell the history of ideas and individuals that made this uniquely american thing happen. for the first time in human history land was set aside not for kings or the very rich but

for everybody. it's a bottom up story of a diverse cast of characters, drama filled because of course saving a park meant you went against the developmental interests at the time, the people who wanted to put a dam over a river or cut down the trees or mine a canyon. and a few courageous people said no. that's the story we want to tell. we think it's an evergreen story and a story that speaks today of a lot of the environmental concerns we have. our national parks, the crown jewels and they have been neglected in the last administration. it's time to dust them off. this is a bipartisan issue, everyone loves their parks. >> neglected how? >> sorry? >> neglected how? >> there has been a backlog of billions of dollars of maintenance that they could have spent over the last eight years that hasn't been spent. and so they are frayed around the edges but visited by 275 million people each year, all 58 of the national parks and 391 of

the units that make up the national park service that include historic sites, battlefields, even places of our complicated history like little rock central high school where japanese americans were interned in the second world war. >> what's really stunning, too, i grew up in a family that took advantage of our national parks, you know, the great sand dunes and i won a trip to go out to yellowstone national park. it's the diversity you see in the rain forests, deserts, the canyons, the water -- to name it all would be extensive. we have an amazing amount of geography within the borders of our nation. >> and we own it. you own it. i own it. everyone in the sound of our voices own it. that's the great thing. we shot from the gates of the arctic in northern alaska to the dry tortugas of the key, from hawaii volcano where they are making new land to acadia

national park where the first rays of sunlight hit this complicated republic of ours and everywhere in between. that's it. there are some people who do not yet feel that sense of ownership and we've been able to go out into often inner city communities, often to black and african-american communities and show them heroes of the history of the national parks that look and sound like them so we invite more people into this amazing birthright we all share. as co-owners we ought to go out and visit our property once in a while and make sure as you did that it's being taken care of and put it in our will for our posterity. it's a bargain. >> ken, i know you got extensive looks at the nation's national parks, 53 of the 58. that being said, what's your first real memory of a national park? >> you know, it's interesting. the parks perform as even your memories do, a kind of open heart surgery where we remember not just these grand geological sites but who we were with when

we saw them. for me working on this project opened up a long forgotten memory in 1959 when i was 6 years old my dad in the midst of family catastrophe and disaster, my mother was dying of cancer took me to shenandoah national park. i could suddenly remember what his hand felt like holding mine. i remember the songs he sang to me. i remember the conversations we had and in this relatively small park i was able to reclaim a memory of my father who is also like my mother long gone. so i think that part of our attraction to the parks isn't just that they preserve this grand scenery, they do and that's wonderful but they help us to preserve the most personal and intimate memories we have with our families. and that's part of that open heart surgery. >> ken burns, thank you so much for sharing your own memories and this film which i'm very much looking forward to. >> can't wait for you to see it.

it will be on all week. >> tonight 8:00 eastern on pbs. "morning meeting" willing back tomorrow. dylan has another meeting. he's a guest on tomorrow's martha stewart. you can watch dylan on martha stewart if you're not going to be around you probably want to set your tivo for times in your area. watch "morning meeting with dylan ratigan," 9:00 eastern, 6:00 pacific here on msnbc.9:00, 6:00 pacific here on msnbc. when i first saw the new outback it looked so different to me. but when i got back from my first trip... ...the look was unmistakable. more room for adventure.

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okay. often texas, tents in the parking lot, helping with the influx. emergency rooms so packed with patients the hospitals set up tents to deal with it. in memphis, they are seeing

double the number of patients they see this time of year. about half the kids have flu-like symptoms. 57% have the swine flu. "nightly news" takes a look at the fallout of the swine flu this week. david paterson grabbing headlines. the white house urging him not to run this year. he says he's running anyway. >> i've had confidential conversations with the white house and i'm not going to reveal what they were. the president never told me not to run for governor. >> jonathan alter of "knewsweek" joins me now. what it in it to get him to step aside. >> it's about protecting democratic seats. look at the seat gillibrand

vacated when she went to the u.s. senate. it's up for grabs. if you have a weak candidate at the top of the ticket, they could lose a few seats and make it harder in the house of representatives. >> conventional wisdom about the top of the ticket. why would that be? >> people say i don't like paterson, i'm going for giuliani. as long as i'm going for giuliani, i'll go all republican this time. there's a certain number of voters who vote a straight party ticket depending on their mood. if they get andrew cuomo in there, he's likely to be the governor, you then have a stronger possibility, at least the white house believes of protecting those democratic seats. >> the white house said it did not urge paterson to step aside.

governor paterson danced delicately around it. is that normal for any administration bhen it comes to election time? >> it's pretty unusual. paterson is right, that a president himself didn't say hey, governor, get out of the way. at a lower level, there are overtures that are made and contacts that are made in new york politics where they come out to make the message clear. in this case, there was no mistaking what the white house wa wanted. you're right, it's unusual for the white house to get involved. it's a risky business. >> paterson says he's not going to step aside unless the people ask him to. it seems like an obvious -- whatever, i won't go there. >> if he did pull out, he could maybe make tougher decisions to straighten out the mess in

albany. >> those of us in new york would like to see that happen. thank you so much. >> thanks. >> that wraps up our live coverage. stay tuned for msnbc break-ins. i'm contessa brewer, i hope you have a great sunday.

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