the iranians keep insisting, no, no, this is just for peaceful purposes. i think, as the russians said in their statement and as we believe, what this meeting on october 1st is to test, that's fine, prove it. >> i think it's crunch time on that between now and thursday. welcome to "morning joe." 6:00 on the east coast. i'm mika brzezinski. joe is -- well, he's not here. trust me, he'd rather be here than where he is right now. mike barnicle, pat buchanan joining me and willie this morning. get over here, willie. >> long time no see. >> yeah. >> we're going to be talking about iran this morning test-firing missiles over the weekend. at what point does the united states and its allies say enough is enough? at what point do they actually do something or we look absolutely stupid at this point

and waste valuable time? there's an important meeting on thursday between representatives from iran and six other nations, including the u.s. i would think that that might be some sort of a deadline. moving on to -- we're going to have david sanger in in just about a half hour. they broke the story overnight about the secret uranium enrichment plant that we talked about intently on friday morning. also coming up, afghanistan. general mcchrystal was on "60 minutes" last night. very interesting piece on him. we're going to talk about whether afghanistan is the next vietn vietnam, and bob woodward will talk to us about his reporting on that story. we have tina brown coming in to talk about gordon brown. he was good on friday, was he not? >> listen, in the press conference, winston churchill. very tough. >> i don't know whether he was that good.

>> and then also we need to talk about david paterson, mike barnicle. what i line yesterday. i'm blind, but i'm on bailinot oblivious. the question is is he? >> do you think he's going to drop out? >> i don't think he'll drop out, but he's not going to win. >> cuomo gets it? >> andrew cuomo. >> this guy doesn't look like he's budging. also, william saffire. we're talking about his passing this morning. >> great guy. >> pat's colleague. >> known him more than 40 years. nixon told me, when i came up to join him in 1965, saffire is one of the guys you should see. he came into the white house with us more than 40 years ago. told the great spiro agnew to

uplift the nation. he was very proud of that line. >> william saffire died over the last few days. in breaking news, iran state television is reporting the country has test-fired one of the longest range missiles in its arsenal this morning. the missile has a potential range to strike israel and u.s. bases in the region. today's launch is the third in a series of tests aimed at demonstrating iran's ability to respond to an attack. it comes just days after tehran revealed the existence of a second nuclear facility, triggering a tough international response. >> the russians have come out with a strong statement saying that the burden has now shifted. it has shifted to iran. they have to come to this meeting on october 1st and present convincing evidence as to the purpose of their nuclear program. we don't believe that they can

present convincing evidence that it's only for peaceful purposes, but we're going to put them to the test on october 1st. >> according to "the new york times," the obama administration is consideration sanctions that would hit iran's oil and gas industry and restrict many iranian banks. meanwhile, another troubling situation in afghanistan, where the obama administration is weighing its strategy against the taliban. defense secretary robert gates is rejecting calls to set a time line for troop withdrawal, arguing it would only embolden the insurgency. >> the notion of timelines and exit strategies and so on, frankly, i think, would all be a strategic mistake. the reality is failure in afghanistan would be a huge setback for the united states. >> gosh, so, i mean, pat, at this point, you ought to do something. >> you mean on the afghanistan situation? well, general mcchrystal is

saying, if you delay, if you dither, if you draw down troops, we're going to lose the war. but if you put 40,000 more in, i'm not sure you're going to win the war. it's a very tough call. >> this comes amid new requests by u.s. forces and the top commander in afghanistan. general mcchrystal is calling on the administration for faster progress. >> the secretary talks in terms of 12 to 18 months to show a significant change, and then we eat up two or three months just on sort of getting the tools out of the tool box. that really hurts. the average organization, when someone asks when you want something, they pull out a calendar. in a good organization, they look at their watch, and we've really got to get that way. >> but barnacicle, isn't it the case, if you're a general overseeing a war, you ask for more. who would ask for less? >> i think people in america, every time they think about it, they have a strategy issue, and they have a definition issue.

the strategy is figure out what we're doing, and the definition is we've got to drop words like failure, losing, winning. >> we need to know what they mean. several european countries are pushing for clemency for director roman polanski, who's being held in swiss custody this morning. the oscar-winner is facing possible extradition back to the u.s. for a crime committed more than three decades ago. >> roman polanski, revered director, rich, famous, and totally at home on the red carpet. he was to have been guest of honor at the zurich film festival, but instead he's in a swiss jail facing extradition to the united states for having sex in 1977 with a 13-year-old girl. >> he's always had to worry about just this possibility happening because he's obviously aware that there seems to be some vendetta against him. >> reporter: polanski made some of the defining films of the

1960s in poland and then moved to the u.s. to make "rosemary's baby" in 1968. it's still considered one of the darkest of horror movies. a year later, his wife, the actress sharon tate, was murdered by cult followers of charles manson. she was eight months pregnant. his fans doubted his ability to recover, but polanski came back with "chinatown" in 1974 and a brief appearance alongside his friend jack nicholson. shortly after that, he found himself a fugitive from justice. >> you know what happens to noisy fellas? no? >> never again to find myself on the other side of the law. >> reporter: in 1977 polanski was arrested and allowed to plead guilty to having unlawful sex with 13-year-old samantha gailey, then claiming the judge had reneged on a sentencing deal, polanski fled to france where his career continued to

flourish. >> roman polanski for "the pianist." >> he received a directing oscar for his film "the pianist." polanski couldn't go to the u.s., so his friend harold ford traveled abroad to present it. the united states district attorney's office informed swiss police he was expected in zurich this weekend. >> of course, he's not a swiss citizen. so this case will turn on swiss law and how they will interpret what happened in the proceedings back in the u.s. >> reporter: polanski's being held in jail while the u.s. has 60 days to file for his extradition. he has the right to contest his detention and any extradition decision in a swiss court. thomas aspell, london. >> we have a world teeming with terrorists walking around the united states, and we're going

after roman polanski, when his victim has said repeatedly, let it go. >> they had a settlement. i'm not saying it makes anything okay, but they had closed the door on it once. >> light up old sparky and let him ride the lightning. >> should i have gone to pat? >> jerry lee lewis, he married the 13-year-old. we didn't know what to make of that. of course, that's the south. officials in the philippines say at least 100 people are dead in the country's worst flooding in four decades. 5,000 people have been rescued joining the 430,000 displaced in the aftermath. 80% of the capital is still underwater. for the first time since the 1980s, social security will be paying out more in benefits than it collects in taxes. next year the deficit is forecast to hit $10 billion and

$9 billion the following year. it follows a big jump in job cuts and early retirement claims from laid off seniors. and william safire, a longtime op-ed writer for "the new york times," has died of pancreatic cancer on sunday. here's nbc's lester holt. >> reporter: william safire took little at face value, not the people he wrote about or the words he used to describe them. for more than 40 years, he was a conservative voice on a left leaning op-ed page. his voice was sharp and sophisticated. >> the attempt is to make anyone who disagrees with the president seem like some kind of bomb throwing nut. >> reporter: his legendary turn of phrase was both of a source of amusement or scorn, as when he once called hillary clinton a congenital liar, causing bill clinton to openly wish he could punch him in the nose. william safire was a college dropout, but he possessed a natural gift with words and the english language. in 1959 as a pr man, he

organized vice president richard nixon's so-called kitchen table debate with the soviet union's nikita khrushchev. years later, it was safireworking as one of the nixon's white house speechwriters, who gave us the phrase nattering nabombs of negativism used by spiro agnew. he earned the presidential medal of freedom in 2006 and made him a frequent guest on "meet the press." >> it was quite a moment. you do get to bring your whole family. >> reporter: the deep respect he earned in washington was a far cry from 1993, when he joined the times and was rejected as a nixon apoll gist. by 1988 he had taken home a pulitzer for commentary. his last op-ed column was called "never retire" and he never did. his new york times feature "on

language," a dissection of the words and phrases we use and so often misuse continued up until this month. in describing his job, safire always had just one word, pundit. >> and pat buchanan, i just noticed that we have a lot of coverage in "the washington post," and this is on b8 in "the new york times." >> "the washington post" had a much longer story on page 1. safire was a gifted wordsmith. i've known him for 40 years, and his famous line, the nattering nabombs. but the kitchen table debate, and nixon going at it with khrushchev, he said, hey, bill, he threw his camera over the heads of khrushchev and nixon to safire, who was sitting where the kitchen stuff was, safire took the picture and threw it back. the famous picture, this guy got

credit for it, and nixon always used it in his campaign, the face-off with khrushchev in the debate. >> great story. front page article in "the washington post." that was a quick check of the news. let's get a quick check on the weather -- oh, this is uncomfortable. >> he's back. >> i used joe's i.d. to get in the door downstairs. >> go ahead and do the weather, and i'll call hr. >> is he supposed to be here? >> he's on probation. >> good morning. let's talk a little about the rain and thunderstorms out there this morning. bad weather when you wake up out the door in cleveland and soon in pittsburgh. give it another 15, 20 minutes, and those storms are going to roll through pittsburgh. they'll be gone in a hurry. other areas, beautiful today. boston to d.c., one more summer-like day, 75 to 80 degrees. travel delays likely in the midwest, especially chicago, st. louis, kansas city. a lot of gusty winds today.

o'hare probably has some of the worst delays out of anywhere during the day today. that was an exhausting 30 seconds. maybe i'll take the rest of the week off. >> you might want to. thank you very much, bill. before we get to the break, i love this headline. >> we'll talk more about it in sports, but look at the headline. "washington bails out the detroit." >> they broke the lions' streak at 19 games. >> hadn't won since december of 2007. redskins helped them out with that. we have got a big story today. david sanger broke the story on iran hours before obama and sarkozy made their announcement. what he says about the test launches. also, dr. oz weighs in on the health care debate. and the ne precautions hospitals are taken with the swine flu debate. politico has the stories that will drive washington this morning, including prime minister berlusconi's off color

remark. he did it again. what is it? you'll have to wait and see, barnicle. i know you're excited. (announcer) there are engines... and then there's the twin-turbocharging, 365-horsepower-generating, ecoboost™ engine in the all-new taurus sho from ford. that has the thirst of a v6 with the thrust of a v8. we speak car. we speak innovation. introducing the all-new taurus sho from ford. drive one. tdd# 1-800-345-2550 when my broker said, "i make money when you make money," tdd# 1-800-345-2550 he neglected to mention tdd# 1-800-345-2550 he also makes money when i lose money, tdd# 1-800-345-2550 withdraw money or do nothing with my money. tdd# 1-800-345-2550

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i have also been having problems with my giant tent. for those of you who do not know, when i travel, i have a large tent that i like to bring with me. for this, i am scorned as some kind of weirdo. despite my high diplomatic station, my tent and i were turned away by central park, westchester county, and worst of all, inglewood, new jersey. >> here with us now, politico's morning playbook, chief correspondent mike allen. hi, mike. >> happy monday. >> happy monday to you, sir. let's talk about al gore. we don't do that enough. he's back in the news. explain this story to me. i read in "the wall street journal." a car company he backs got some

money. tell me how it plays out. >> first i have to share the quote of the year. i know it's only september, but i have no hesitation about close gs the books on this one. tim tebow, university of florida, best quarterback of our lifetime, maybe of our kids' life times, saturday night knocked out in that steamroller sack. has a concussion. he's vomiting. he gets up -- willie, you heard what he said to coach urban meyer. >> what did he say? >> did i hold onto the ball? how great is that? >> so you're one of those people who consume the tebow kool-aid? it sure sounds like it. just take the pitcher and dump it over your head. >> urban meyer said he winked and said, it's great to be a gator. i'm thinking he should be at politico too. if you were to think of a flip car al gore would drive. what would al gore drive? he would have to be called a karma, k-a-r-m-a. that's what al gore's ordered

next. $90,000, little pricey for a journalist's payroll. but what's taking washington by surprise is the maker of the karma was fisker motors in california, got a $500 million subsidy from the government. should the government really be spending that kind of money for people who can get a $90,000 car. >> so the headline is gore's company is getting a bailout. he just owns one of the cars. >> he's ordered one of them. he backs it. >> he backs it by owning one. he doesn't actually back it, right? >> it's on its way. this is a plug-in hybrid. has a lithium ion battery. you can drive 50 miles at 75 cents a gallon. i guess, if you spend $90,000 on a car, like you need to save money on gas. i have good news for you, willie. mika and i can get the karma. you and i need to get for half price from the same company, the

nina. the nina is only half the price. >> are you okay this morning? >> is that one of those small little you plug it into the wall and drive to the grocery store, and everybody laughs at you? >> i want to hear about mr. berlusconi. i don't know what's wrong with him. >> let's talk about berlusconi. well, he's -- i'll let you tell the story. >> this morning i looked up a faux pas in my french-italian dictionary. that's definitely what prime minister berlusconi has done again. yesterday in italy, he said, coming back giving a little pool report on his visit to pittsburgh, he said that president obama was sun tanned and went on to compliment first lady michelle obama also on her sun tan. >> oh, gosh. >> berlusconi says, "i bring you greetings from a person who is called -- a person who is sun-tanned barack obama. you wouldn't believe it, but

they go sunbathing at the beach together. his wife is also sun-tanned." >> when he said that before, someone blew the flag on this and said, excuse me, sir, that is racist. he said anybody who thinks it is is an imbecile. i don't know what you say about somebody who would run that movie again. >> and also somebody who goes to 16-year-old's birthday parties. we could throw that in the mix. don't look at me. he's the one who did it. mike allen, thanks so much. >> and we're not talking about mike allen in that case. >> the tim tebow story was a good one. thanks, mike. >> you all have the great week. >> not the greatest quarterback of all time. >> of course not. people are obsessed. >> i don't know what mike just did there. i have to talk to him about that. he was adorable, but he was a little erratic this morning. >> long weekend. >> you know these airlines who are always trying to find a way to cost you money, like your bags? i paid for bags.

i couldn't believe it when we were traveling. this one hits travelers where it hurts when it hurts, the holidays. here's nbc's jeff rossum. >> reporter: thanksgiving is coming. that means christmas and new year's aren't far behind. before you celebrate, the airlines are ready to collect. they're targeting holiday travelers. american airlines, united, delta, northwest, and u.s. airways will now charge $10 extra just to fly on the sunday after thanksgiving and the weekend after new year's. >> another way and another scheme to, you know, continue to pump money out of the consumer. >> it's never-ending. fees are never-ending. >> fares are actually dropping. it's the surcharges that are sky rocketing. at this time, the airlines collected $2.3 billion in fees alone. this year it spiked more than 50% to $3.8 billion. >> it's a flyer beware. their mission is to show you rock bottom prices. then they're hoping, once you do

that, you get the air travel fever. >> customers complain the fees are often hidden. you book a flight, and the fare seems pretty reasonable. then you get to the total price, and the cost has jumped. that's before you even get to the airport and pay those checked baggage fees. >> all of a sudden, we say, boom, what the heck just happened? >> many airlines are still operating in the red, and executives claim they need the fees to stay in business. most airlines now charge $15 to $20 for the first checked bag. jet blue and virgin america charge as much as $30 for a preferred seat. and british airways has announced it will charge about $60 just to select a seat well in advance. >> they put a flag up after i gave them my credit card number, and said more seats were taken. and therefore your flight is now $50 more. >> there is a bright spot. customer complaints are actually down this year, but at what cost? jeff rossum, nbc news, new york. >> it's got to stop. >> did he just say at some point

it might cost $60 to choose a seat ahead of time? >> i've done that. i've paid to choose a seat. already. >> you're kidding? >> yes. they do that. >> i guess it depends which seat you get. it might be worth it. >> i get my seat far, far away from barnicle. >> southwest airlines did a whole ad campaign where, if you add up the bag fees, it could save you $100 round trip. >> we'll talk to "the new york times" david sanger. plus a look at the morning papers. all ahead on "morning joe." pure cane sugar and the stevia plant.

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welcome back to "morning joe." it is 6:30 on the east coast. time for a quick look at some of today's top stories. this morning iran says it's successfully launch the a long-range missile capable of carrying a warhead. it comes just days after tehran is set to participate in talks

with western powers over countries suspected of trying to build nuclear weapons. i wonder when we can remove the word suspected. just wondering. a decades old legal case is getting new attention this morning following the arrest of filmmaker roman polanski over the weekend. this is an unbelievable story. we're going to have a live shot from donna freegeen coming up. the 67-year-old could be charged with fleeing sentencing for the statutory rape of a 13-year-old girl back in 1977. he was in his 40s. at the request of the u.s. government, the oscar-winner was picked up by swiss police in zurich, where he planned to attend a film festival in his honor. and today german chancellor angela merkel is building a new government coalition after claiming victory in sunday's election as part of her second term in office. the 55-year-old is vowing to lower taxes in an effort to create jobs. let's take a look at the morning papers. you've got "the new york times."

>> this is the big story we talked about earlier. new sanctions on iran perhaps. that's the big headline in the times. >> also in the times, right below that article is liz cheney out there for the gop. is she running for office? i wonder what she's up to. and look at this, guys. david gregory and david paterson, the governor of -- he is going to run despite what the reporting was that the white house really wants him to pull back. he said to david on "meet the press" yesterday, i am blind, but i'm not oblivious. quite a line. and iran tests missiles on the eve of talks. we'll be talking about that coming up on with david sanger. >> the washington times, iran tests missiles after nuke disclosure. >> defiant iran tests missiles in the houston chronicle. "the wall street journal," mandate for change in germany. a lot going on. we're going to have to deal with that as well as the afghanistan

issue with our guests coming up. david sanger from "the new york times" breaking the iran story overnight, and bob woodward coming up later in the show to talk about afghanistan. he broke the mcchrystal story, of course. stay with us. we'll have the must read opinion pages straight ahead. you're watching "morning joe" brewed by starbucks. >> the president and others speaking on their behalf said to you, you should not run. >> i can't say that, david. there are people who have told me not to run. there are a lot of people who have told me not to run. >> but the white house specifically said don't run? >> i don't know that. >> you don't know that? you certainly know you don't have their support. >> well, david, the white house has a country to run, and i have a state to run. and there's politics that go on all the time. i'm blind, but i'm not oblivious. announcer: in today's markets

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from the administration's point of view, is this the time for engageengagement, or is thi time to get tough? >> my answer is both. i always think it's a good idea, if possible, to look somebody in the eye and have a chance to have a conversation before there's a total breach. but i think this is actually healthy that this has broken. >> well, at this point, i think, in the next couple of days, we'll see what, if anything, will be done because there's this meeting on thursday between iran representatives and six major powers, including the u.s., and they have breached the rules here at this point. i think that's clear. with us now from washington, nor times chief washington correspondent david sanger. david, when "the new york times" first broke the story early friday morning that u.s. intelligence had learned of iran's second secret nuclear enrichment site. david is also the author of "the

inheritance, the world obama confronts and the challenges to american power," i guess no greater challenges on the forefront than iran. david, thanks for joining us. >> good to be with you, mika. >> in your book, you talk about the thoughts the bush administration had on the iranian nuclear power plant, and here we are now. >> mika, this was fascinating over the past couple of days, but i can't say it was a surprise. we've been in the situation for some time now where everyone in the u.s. intelligence community has been looking for a second secret enrichment site. so the thinking was that the last place the iranians could produce a bomb from was that giant site at natanz that we often see on television or where inspectors go in and visit every couple of weeks because it is under such tight inspection. so if they were going to divert fuel someplace, it had to be

somewhere secret. >> let me read from "the wall street journal" this morning, an iran op-ed by elliott cohen. "it is therefore in american interest to break with past policy and actively seek the overthrow of the islamic republic. not by invasion, which this administration would not contemplate and could not execute, but through every instrument of u.s. power, soft more than hard. and if, as if most likely president obama presides over the emergence of a nuclear iran, he had best prepare for storms that will make the squawks of protest against his health care plans look like the merest showers on a sunny day." it's quite clear that the thought of another war and a war especially with iran is something we don't want to think about at any time, but especially now. at the same time, there are those who are arguing, i think with senator kyl yesterday, and then do something and then lift it if they act accordingly. as opposed to sit here and talk to them again when we have been lied to repeatedly. what are you hearing?

>> if you take mr. cohen's position of calling for regime change, you then have to take the next question after that, which is is regime change something that we can impose from outside? it's something we've been pretty poor at doing in recent years. or do you try to exploit what's happening in iran right now anyway? you know, the big unknown in this, mika, are the fissures that are taking place within iranian society. the problem is that we're running against two or three different clocks here. we have a relatively short clock on the nuclear problem. but we also think that after the elections, the disputed elections in june, that the leadership in iran over the long term has been considerably weakened. and the question is can you do things that would allow that weakening to continue in time to

solve the nuclear problem? >> so you raise those questions. pat buchanan, what are the things that can be done? what are the options right now? >> i think we've got a lot more time than people think. this plan, according to the iranians, is 18 months from completion. they're going to have iaea inspectors in there. if they're going to enrich, they're going to enrich to 5%. david, how is it that we've been told repeated byly national intelligence estimates, state department officials, counterproliferation people said iran is years and years and years away from being able to build a nuclear weapon and they've got no nuclear weapons program. at the same time, we've known about this for several years. why the inconsistency? >> it's a great question, pat. the reason is that there are two elements, at least two elements, really three, i guess, to a nuclear weapons program like this. one is the enrichment, and we've

seen what they've done publicly, which you say is low enriched uranium, the kind you use in a reactor, not a weapon. it would take a few months additional process to go get that up to a weapons level. the second part is the design of the actual weapon, fitting a warhead on top of a missile. and that's the work that the national intelligence estimates said stopped in 2003. well, that's reassuring news except, if you read carefully in the national intelligence estimates, just in the public part, forget the 140 pages of the classified section of it, it also tells you that they have no evidence that secret enrichment sites have resumed after 2003. we know that at least construction of this one did. it probably started in 2005 or 2006. it's continuing to this day. and then the third element is getting a missile to deliver this, and you're seeing the iranians test those. that's pretty well finished. so it's all a question of how you define a weapon.

>> we have to -- i'm going to bring in one more op-ed. we're going to move on to afghanistan. again, i think we need to revisit this throughout the morning because there's some options, i think, in the near future as well as the long term pertaining to iran with this meeting coming up on thursday. afghanistan, we saw general mcchrystal on "60 minutes" last night, a fascinating piece. here's basically how one opinion writer describes what mcchrystal wants to do. and then i've got a question for you, pat, and david about this. he wants u.s. and nato personnel to expand training programs for afghan soldiers and missmen, reform the justice system, promote more effective local administration, and ramp up reconstruction. if that occurs, he and other counterinsurgency experts contend then afghans who have sided with the taliban out of fear or necessity will eventually switch sides and support the government. building an effective state, in mcchrystal's view, is the only

way to defeat the insurgency." pat buchanan, i guess what the question is what's the difference between what mcchrystal wants and nation building? should we be doing that? >> i don't think there's any difference. first, he is talking about nation building, and he's talking about a number of years doing this. what mcchrystal is saying is bottom line -- and i think generals are trying to box in the president saying, if you don't give us the 40,000 troops, we're headed for what bob woodward picked out, mission failure. a defeat in afghanistan, a taliban takeover. when the battle for afghanistan is over, the battle for pakistan begins. i think they're putting real pressure on the president, who does not want to increase troops, but i think he could well be pressured into doing it. >> willie geist? >> david, why are we even talking about nation building right now? if you look at what happened over the last ten years or so, we're talking about going in a

country, and we say bring them democracy. dexter says bring them some running water and then maybe we can talk about democracy. why are we having the nation building conversation? >> the reason is dex is exactly right. you've got to start with running water. let's set the democracy building problem aside. our biggest problem for eight years in afghanistan has been that we have come into towns, pretended we're nation building, left immediately, and guess who comes in right behind us? the taliban. so in march of 2002, george bush went down to the virginia military institute where george marshall had been, and gave a fabulous speech promising we would move in with real nation building, and then he never did it. he went back to the white house, and it never got delivered. had it been delivered, we might not be reading general mcchrystal this week asking us, where's the nation building? this should have started eight years ago. the problem now

sentenced, and his career is thought to be over. polanski raped a 13-year-old girl and fled, all should be forgiven? mika, serious hypocrisy. mick writes, even martha stewart did her time. plaxico's in jail, and michael vick did his time. i have no sympathy. >> that's true. she was 13 years old. >> ride the lightning. >> i don't want to hear from any of you. thank you, chris, for that.

coming up, nbc's andrea mitchell has more on iran's test fires over the weekend. next the yankees make it official. brett favre steals the show. and detroit wins? willie has a look at sports next. how to get rich, by america's health insurance companies. raise health insurance premiums 4 times faster than wages. pay your ceo twenty four million dollars a year. deny payment for 1 out of every 5 treatments doctors prescribe. if the insurance companies win, you lose. tell congress to rewrite the story. we want good health care we can afford

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i love it when he does sports. >> time for some sports. remember this date, december 23rd, 2007. that was a long time ago. i think it's fair to say at that point we thought it was going to be hillary versus rudy giuliani running for president. that's how long ago it was. >> distinct possibility. >> that's how long ago the detroit lions won a football game. until yesterday. lions rookie quarterback matthew stafford, a 29-yard touchdown to bryant johnson. they go up 7-0. they're start to go feel it in the fourth quarter. they're up by six. a touchdown here would put this one away. maurice morris cuts it back inside. 19-7 they win the game. snapped a 19-game losing streak.

as all the papers say, washington bails out detroit. >> can we have a moment of silence for jim zorn, the redskins coach? >> bye-bye, coach zorn. how about brett favre making his debut against the 49ers? fourth quarter, final play of the game, down 24-20. a few ticks left on the clock. he heaves one to the back of the end zone. that is the last play of the game. greg lewis makes the catch, gets two feet down. watch this. what a catch. >> oh, my goodness. >> you need two feet in the nfl. what a throw. look at that. vikings, a dramatic 27-24 win. they're still undefeated. eagles hosting the chiefs. guess who's back? michael vick in his first nfl game in a long, long time. here he is, his first run, little seven-yard move, dances outside. not a bad play there. he wasn't the starter, though. kevin kolb did that. >> he had a good day. >> 64-yard touchdown to desean

jackson. mika, you'll like this. he does a flip in the end zone. >> a real flip? no way. >> philly beats the chiefs 34-14. steelers struggling a little bit against the bengals. you don't want to lose to the bengals. here with 14 seconds left in the game, carson palmer, a four-yard touchdown to andre caldwell. cincy beats the steelers 23-20. super bowl champs are now 1-2. bad loss there. colts visiting the steelers' super bowl opponent, the cardinals, on sunday night. peyton manning lighting up the cardinals defense. 53-yard touchdown. they go up 21-3. they win 31-10. 505 total yards. how about the new york jets? giants won yesterday. everybody's talking about the jets going to 3-0 behind their rookie quarterback. threads one in there to jerricho cotchery. they go on to win 24-17. titans are still winless. did you see this on saturday? tim tebow won the heisman trophy a couple of years ago, number

one florida. the game already out of reach. florida blowing out kentucky. absolutely drilled by kentucky's taylor wyndham in the third quarter. worst part is when he falls back and hits his head on his teammate's knee. taken to the hospital in kentucky. he was held overnight. he had a concussion. he did fly back yesterday. his coach urban meyer said tim is doing fine. the gators do have a week off. hopefully he'll be better. >> i have to go now. >> did he get in trouble for that? baseball now. yankees looking to sweep boston and clinch the division. red sox were up in the sixth, but hideki matsui drops a run into left field. two runs scored. they take the score to 3-2. now in the ninth with the tying runs on base, mariano rivera gets jacoby ellsbury ground back to him. they clinch their 16th division title and get home field throughout the playoffs, assuming they make it out of the first round for the first time in a long time. >> i still love the red sox. >> i didn't say anything. >> i love them.

i don't care. >> coming up on "morning joe," we've got dr. oz. he's going to be here in studio. we'll hear what he has to say about the health care debate. first, a look at some of the news you can't use. including the inadvertent f-bomb on "snl." upbeat rock ♪ singer:wanted to get myself a new cell phone ♪ ♪ so i could hear myself as a ringtone ♪ ♪ who knew the store would go and check my credit score ♪ ♪ now all they let me have is this dinosaur ♪ ♪ hello hello hello can anybody hear me? ♪ ♪ i know i know i know i shoulda gone to ♪ ♪ free credit report dot com! ♪ that's where i shoulda gone! coulda got my knowledge on! ♪ ♪ vo: free credit score and report with enrollment in triple advantage.

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oh, please, please, please tell me it's time. >> for my co-host pat buchanan. here we go.

big news on "saturday night live." did you see this? it's all over the web. the new girl, jenny slate, one of two new cast members this fall. her very first show under lorne michaels on "saturday night liv." she's doing a biker girl sketch. she uses the term frigin' over and over again. one time, 20 out of 25, she slipped and uses the other term. >> you can just throw an ashtray full of butts at my head. you know what, you stood up for yourself, and i'm [ bleep ] for that. >> so she dropped a word in that that we had to [ bleep ] obviously. take a look at her face. she clearly knew what she did the second she did it. there we go. >> we've seen that look before. >> i think it was plucking the chicken look. >> i would just say this about that. i know you want her to ride the lightning, pat, but 12:43 a.m. she said that, i think we can

all get over it and move on. there aren't any little kids watching that, right, pat? let that one fly? >> let that one go. >> good. keep sparky fired down. here's one that might get you upset, pat. the pope was giving a talk in prague over the weekend. would you look at this. there's a spider crawling up and down his rope. at one point he tried to swat the thing away. it would not leave him alone. over the course of his remarks, it climbed up one side and down the other. some people reading deep, deep biblical meaning into this. i, for one, am not. >> moving on. we respect the pope. thank you, willie, for that. it is the top of the hour. >> that's it? >> that's it. we're moving on. >> it's been abbreviated. >> we'll have more. >> mika's a tyrant. >> look at barnicle moving in. you're not mad at me, are you? >> no.

>> thanks for joining us. i'm mika brzezinski. joe is off. would rather be here compared to what he's going through right now. what's on the cover of "fortune" magazine? anything good? >> gm. a business icon. >> that's it. we've got iran test-firing missiles over the weekend on the heels of the news last friday. we'll talk about afghanistan. dr. oz is going to join us this next half hour. he had a big health care event that's going to be a back drop for one of his shows. it's a real mirror on the health care crisis. he'll be here to talk about that. and we are getting a lot of e-mails on the roman polanski arrest. we're going to read you a few more of those coming up. very angry. and i would like to explain myself on that. i have something to show the viewers on that. first, let's get a look at the top stories. iran reporting the country has test-fired a long-range missile in a third round of military tests. the missile has the potential range to strike israel and u.s.

bases in the region. it comes just days after tehran revealed the existence of a second nuclear facility, triggering a tough international response. >> the russians have come out with a strong statement saying that the burden has now shifted. it has shifted to iran. they have to come to this meeting on october 1st and present convincing evidence as to the purpose of their nuclear program. we don't believe that they can present convincing evidence, that it's only for peaceful purposes, but we are going to put them to the test on october 1st. >> and then we're hearing from the defense secretary about the potential of sanctions, andy. what would they be? >> first of all, we have economic sanctions against iran currently, but they're not -- you can argue they don't work. stepping them up would include making the european allies have the same level of sanctions that we do, which is not doing business with iran. and also increasing our

sanctions, which would mean not exporting gasoline to iran. believe it or not, they have to import gasoline even though they're the fourth largest oil producer in the world. >> they can't refine it. >> right. they can't refine it. exactly. >> you know what's tough? sanctions in cuba as compared to sanctions in iraq? >> look at the sanctions in cuba. almost 50 years of sanctions in cuba. have we accomplished what we want, to get rid of castro? i don't think so. >> the chinese are not going to help us out on that one. >> meanwhile, there is another troubling issue in afghanistan where the obama administration is weighing its strategy against the taliban. defense secretary robert gates is rejecting calls to set a time line for troop withdrawal, arguing it would only embolden the insurgency. >> the notion of timelines and exit strategies and so on, frankly, i think, would all be a strategic mistake. the reality is failure in

afghanistan would be a huge setback for the united states. >> pat buchanan, define success then. what's success? >> define failure, if you get out -- if you don't send the troops mcchrystal is saying, i'm going to lose the war. you lose the war, taliban takeover of afghanistan, that's the end of obama's presidency. the republican party would rip him to bits. you would have a huge victory for al qaeda and the taliban. you'd have an extend war in pakistan and an enormous reversal for the united states. on the other hand, can we win the war with 40,000 more troops? nobody's made the case the 40,000 will do anything other than raise american casualties, extend the war. obama's got the most important decision of his presidency. >> right there. let's hear this explanation that comes aamid a new request for additional forces by the top u.s. commander in afghanistan. as i mngs entioned, general sta mcchrystal is calling on the administration for faster progress. >> the secretary talks in terms of 12 to 18 months to show a significant change, and then we

eat up two or three months just on sort of getting the tools out of the tool box. that really hurts. the average organization, when someone asks when you want something, they pull out a calendar. but in a good organization, they look at their watch. we've really got to get that way. >> i get what his job is, mike barnicle, but at the same time, the thought of more treasure being lost in afghanistan. >> at the end of the day, you can understand the military's sense of urgency about this. this is what they do. but at the end of that same day, the taliban isn't going anywhere. they're not coming to long beach or brooklyn to blow us up. al qaeda is. it's two separate entities that i would imagine would be looked at in terms of a strategy. >> i think mcchrystal is really putting the pressure on the president of the united states. either give us those troops, or you will be responsible for an american defeat. >> that's what he's saying. we're going to talk more about this coming up with andrea mitchell. more on this story.

director roman polanski is facing a possible extradition back to the u.s. from switzerland, where he was arrested on charges of fleeing sentencing for the statutory rape of a 13-year-old girl back in 1977. france and poland are pushing for clemency, citing accusations the oscar winner fled the country only after the original judge in the case failed to honor a plea agreement. chris is telling me that lots of e-mails are coming in after our comments on this. yeah, why don't we do it here, chris. are they all on one side? what are you getting? >> i would say 95% are like this. did i actually hear the men say, come on. it's been 30 years. three decades. do they have daughters? i don't hear mika standing up for the 13-year-old. doesn't she have a daughter? >> i get that completely, and 13 is just -- it is a rape. here's the other problem with the story. this is the woman who was attacked, or raped, or had sex with roman polanski, however you

want to define. she had a settlement with him, and she wants had this to be over as well. she doesn't want him to be charged. it's a complicated story. i have no opinion on it. the bottom line is a rape is a rape is a rape. >> bill lyman from the rolling stones dated a 13-year-old for a while. what is it about the 13-year-olds? >> to those out there who are outraged that polanski might not be incarcerated. why don't you pay attention to what happens in your own judicial district with people who are not celebrities. this happens every day across the country where people receive short shrift on sentencing. nobody pays attention to that. we're paying attention to roman polanski because he's a movie director. that's pathetic. officials in the philippines seeking relief work after the worst floods in 40 years. 100 people are dead, 5,000

people have been rescued, joining the 400,000 misplaced in the aftermath. for the first time, social security will be paying out more in benefits than it collects in taxes. next year the forecast is $10 billion and $9 billion the following year. it follows job cuts and early retirement claims from laid off seniors. and william safire, a longtime op-ed writer for "the new york times" died on sunday of pancreatic cancer. he was a speechwriter for the nixon white house. safire authored more than a dozen books and won the pulitzer prize for commentary. we have a picture from "the new york times," running a huge piece on his life and legacy. look who's in it. this is air force two, pat buchanan looking like wally beaver. >> that is 39 years ago during the seven weeks war against the radical liberals of 1970. we were trying to finish off a

lot of democrats. >> in that picture, pat buchanan is whispering in safire's ear, how about nabombs? >> when you were doing the chop, pat? >> we went out there and turned agnew loose until finally nixon had to dial him down. >> he was the attack dog. >> let's bring into the conversation. we've got a lot to cover this morning, including bill clinton on "meet the press" yesterday with some interesting comments, not only about iran, but politics in general. and also with us, nbc chief correspondent and host of "andrea mitchell reports," andrea mitchell. thanks for joining us. let's talk about iran first. the test-firing of long range missiles. this has been quite a weekend

where iran has put it out there, saying we're going to do what we're going to do and we're a strong nation. at what point do we stop believing them and start acting? >> i think we have stopped believing them. they say these tests were part of previously planned war games. clearly, it was a show of defiance aimed at the european allies, aimed at israel, and it will backfire because it will have the opposite effect. it will clearly strengthen the resolve of those, including angela merkel now that she's passed her election on sunday and has a stronger coalition to work with. now they're going to be much more united going into the big talks in geneva on thursday. they're basically medium-range missiles, but at least one of those fired today -- and it was two days of missile tests -- had theoretically the range capable of reaching israel. we're not saying that iran has weaponized, iran has a bomb, iran has figured out how to make the weapon small enough, the warhead small enough to be able to deliver it. the bottom line is that the

president did what george w. bush theoretically, or at least arguably, did not do. he waited until the intelligence was very clear, that they knew that this facility was too small to be a nuclear power plant. and the bottom line here is also that they believe strong ly -- bob gates sort of hinted at it in the pause before he answered george stephanopoulos yesterday -- but i'm told they believe there are more sites like this. this is the one they have the goods on, but there are more, perhaps as many as a dozen, and that's why they want to move so quickly on thursday in geneva. >> mike barnicle? >> andrea, is there anyone well up the food chain in washington who seriously believes that russia and china will go along with tougher sanctions against iran? >> yes, this time they do. they think that the meetings with medvedev -- don't forget, we say there's no quid proquo, but there always is. the president made the decision to withdraw the plan for the

missile defense system in poland and the czech republic, and the next week he meets with medvedev. medvedev goes out to the university of pittsburgh and tells the students, this is a different kind of president. he doesn't lecture me. he made a brave decision on missile defense, and indicates that he would consider stronger sanctions. the theory is, if russia goes along, china might also. >> that is the hope. andy, international strength is clearly important on this. what about china? >> i'm not as sanguine as andrea is. i sat down with ahmadinejad, with the editors of "time" magazine last week. he's an extremely cagey individual. the politics are incredibly opaque. and china relies so much on iran for oil, and it's a huge trading partner. it's interesting to talk and think about what sorts of leverage the u.s. and the west has? we have these sticks, which are the sanctions, the economic sanctions. i don't know if we have any

carro carrots, though. do you think so? >> i think with russia we do, the better relationship. the big argument is that the regime has flipped. what we saw on the streets didn't disappear overnight. ahmadinejad doesn't necessarily speak entirely for iran. he's strengthened by the election, yes, but in another way, he's weakened, and that they can try to make the pitch that they are offering a lot of carrots to iran, economic advancement in iran, if iran backs off on this. i'm not saying it's going to be easy, but i do say that medvedev -- we have to see what putin says. obviously, he's the harder line. i do think there's a way forward and that the president so far, i think arguably, has handled this, he and his team, given the fact that it was only on tuesday morning they learned from the international ato tmic energy agency in vienna this had been

revealed by iran, it has moved quickly. i want to say one thing about my friend about safire. obviously, pat knew him for 40 years. he was a mentor to us younger correspondents of all types. i remember covering the summit with reagan and gorbachev in moscow and him taking me around moscow. he was an extraordinary man, a great character, story teller, a great wit, and just to pause because today is the holiest day of the jewish calendar. it's yom kippur. and every night after those 24-hour fast, for 40 years helene and bill safire hosted the entire washington community at their home in suburban washington. everyone who had been fasting, writers, officials, poor scribes, the high, the mighty, and everyone broke the fast together. it was a joyous celebration. and we were all invited. last week helene sent a note

saying bill was too sick to have everyone over. so it's a very tough thing for the safire family, and i just want to express my condolences. >> andrea, thank you for that. you can catch andrea on msnbc's "andrea mitchell reports" at 1:00 eastern time. we appreciate that. also, we want to tell you that coming up we're going to have more on roman polanski. we're getting a lot of e-mails on this. oscar-winning director roman polanski arrested over the weekend for the rape of a 13-year-old girl. this was more than 30 years ago. also, dr. oz stops by. he held a massive free clinic over the weekend. we're going to hear what he's saying about health care. and swine flu as well. plus willie's going to talk to nbc's savannah guthrie live from the white house. with an exclusive on the obama administration. she's also going to talk with him about what bill clinton said on "meet the press" yesterday. also, we've got to get back on the david paterson story.

i'm blind but not oblivious. we'll get a check on the weather with bill karins. we're going to have major weather issues at the airports, especially in chicago. first off in pittsburgh too. showers and thunderstorms are rolling through the ohio valley heading into central p.a. look at these wind gusts in chicago. we just had a gust of 56 miles per hour. that's incredibly windy. we're going to have minor wind damage and the airports will be a mess as soon as o'hare opens up. forecast in the northeast, fine for boston to d.c. today. looks like the bad weather in chicago will come our way tomorrow. you're watching "morning joe" brewed by starbucks.

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your wife famously talked about the vast right wing conspiracy targeting you. as you look at the opposition to president obama, is it still there? >> you bet. sure it is. it's not as strong as it was because america's changed demographically, but it's as vir

i will as it was. they may be hurting president obama, they can take his numbers down and run his opposition up. but fundamentally, he and his team have a positive agenda for america. their agenda seems to be wanting him to fail. that's not a prescription for a good america. >> bill clinton on "meet the press" with david gregory yesterday, talking about that vast right wing conspiracy. pat buchanan, what do you make of it? >> are you a member? >> i used to be. >> card carrying charter member. >> what you've got is the same group of radio talk show hosts and others after the administration. still you've got that populist element out there that was there in '92, '93, '94 that was really down on health care. you've got a real group opposed to barack obama that's brought him down to 50%, no doubt about it. >> which is not bad. bush was at 27%. >> not too, too bad. here now from the white house, nbc news white house correspondent savannah guthrie.

savannah, good morning. what's new from the white house this morning? >> a couple things. the first is news about the president. the president has decided to travel to copenhagen to get the news on chicago in 2016. they're meeting to decide on the four final cities. the president wasn't able to go because of the health care debate, instead was dispatching first lady michelle obama, who was going by the way. they always held out hope that possibly he could go. they sent an advanced team just in case. i'm told by senior aides he made the call. it was his decision alone. game time decision on saturday night that he will be able to go. he'll take part in the presentation. he'll fly thursday evening, fly all night, get to copenhagen, be part of that presentation and come back. they're hoping he puts it over the top. >> you're wondering, mike barnicle, what's changed? doesn't he have a lot going on? >> actually, i'm not wondering

that at all. savannah and the glasses. is today substitute teacher day? >> you like? is it good or not good? >> i like the look. >> what's wrong with you? seriously, you're a sick person. are you okay? seriously, you cannot go one block without a comment about a woman. >> it's a compliment. >> i like the glasses. i like the look. >> and you're upset that i point out that you're my misogynist. savann savannah, we appreciate the story you broke exclusively. how do they come down to this decision, given there's so many world crises brewing, that they think the president can do this? >> reporter: it's going to be a quick trip. time is on their side. he can leave after work on thursday evening, fly all night, get there, and turn right around. you're really only talking about a lost day. clearly on air force one, it has all the accoutrements, so he's

able to work. clearly they think it's important. this is really close between chicago and rio. other world leaders are going to come. apparently, this started back in 2005. tony blair kind of ruined it for everybody by making a visit and being able to get the london olympics. a lot of people thought that really made the difference. so people were really looking to president obama to go there. it's his hometown. they really want him to do it. >> if it wasn't chicago, would he go? that's my question. if it was phoenix, would he be going? >> no. he'd send savannah. >> reporter: exactly. go arizona. >> with all due respect -- >> who from rio is going to go? >> with all due respect to the president, oprah is the headliner. she's going. let me ask you about david paterson sitting down with david gregory yesterday. this obviously relates to the white house. i'll play the clip for you. he's still defiant. here's what he said. >> the president's team and others speaking on their behalf said to you, you should not run.

isn't that right? >> i can't say that, david. there are people who have told me not to run. there are a lot of people who have told me not to run. >> but the white house specifically said don't run? >> i don't know that. >> you don't know that? you certainly know you don't have their support. >> well, david, the white house has a country to run, and i have a state to run. and there's politics that go on all the time. i'm blind, but i'm not oblivious. >> savannah, let's clarify. what exactly did the white house tell david paterson? >> reporter: look, actually, all along the white house has said we never told him don't run. but they did make it very clear that they thought he didn't have great chances of winning, that for the good of the party he should consider not running. so it's just one of those things. it really boils down to semantics. did they tell him don't run? no, they don't have the authority to do that. did they make it very clear what their preference was? sure, they sure did. >> try to get the lawn mower to

stop. now the big story. i'm going to ask you now about iran. we've had missile tests over the weekend. obviously, the big news on friday about the second secret facility. what types of sanctions is the white house expected to be looking at at this point? i can't imagine talks are on the table. what's the white house talking about this morning pertaining to iran? >> reporter: i think they will be coming up with some tough new sanctions. even hillary clinton acknowledged that prior sanctions were a little leaky, i think, were her words. so they want to come up with tough sanctions. but this is an interesting time. it's a moment where they kind of want to walk the line. for one thing, they can't be so tough with the sanctions that they don't get the participation of russia and china. they want to have this broad international consensus. the other thing is it's a moment in iran itself where there is this fragile protest movement. if they had sampgss that were so onerous they really hurt ordinary iranians on the street thered can be a backlash. they really want to walk the

line. defense secretary robert gates said there were a lot of options. there was a rich tableau of options in terms of sanctions. >> that's very important. >> you know what's really embarrassing. chuck todd is so jealous of savannah he's out there with the leaf blower. >> savannah, say hi to chuck. >> reporter: he's right behind me, the leaf blower. >> wow is right. that says it all. >> savannah, thank you very much. come back if necessary. coming up, why was roman polanski arrested now, more than 30 years after being charged with rape? we're going to go live to switzerland with nbc's donna friesen. also, dr. oz is in the house. we're going to talk to him about one of his big shows coming up. and he has good advice on the swine flu. is that tina? >> tina brown. >> interesting.

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all right. oscar-winning director roman polanski is in swiss custody, setting off international requests to allow him bail. he's facing extradition to the united states for the rape of a

13-year-old girl more than 30 years ago. nbc's donna friesen is live with the story. >> reporter: roman polanski came to zurich to be feted as a celebrity. he was supposed to receive a lifetime achievement award at the zurich film festival. instead, he was taken into custody as soon as he landed in the country, arrested on a 32-year-old warrant for having sex with an underaged girl. for years he's lived as the film world's most celebrating fugitives. roman polanski, now 76, has directed movie classics. from "chinatown." to "rosemary's baby." but a dark episode in his own past has long plagued him. >> never dreamt of finding myself on the other side of the law. >> reporter: in 1977 polanski pleaded guilty to having sex with a minor. his victim was just 13. it took place at jack nichols nicholson's l.a. home while the actor was away. polanski was said to be photographing the girl for a

modeling shoot. she long ago went public about the ordeal. >> it was so traumatic starting that night when my mom called the police, and the police come over and take you to the hospital and take you to the police station. >> reporter: polanski spent 42 days in prison undergoing psychiatric tests but fled the u.s. before being sentenced. for more than three decades he's lived in france where he's a citizen and never returned to the u.s., even when his film "the pianist" won an oscar in 2002. now 32 years later, the law has caught up with him. >> until you're ultimately sentenced to a court of law, there is no justice. there will be some form of justice, maybe not perfect justice. >> reporter: many question why now? >> for me, it's a shock, and i'm ashamed. >> reporter: i think a lot of people are stunned and puzzled by this. the french culture minister says he was dumbfounded by polanski's arrest and regrets a new ordeal is being deflected on him.

he lost his mother in auschwitz, the nazi death camp, and his wife sharon tate was brutally murdered by followers of charles manson. tate's killer susan atkins died in prison of brain cancer last week. but some time polanski has to face the music. >> time doesn't make crime go away. >> reporter: his victim now says she doesn't want to see him put in jail, that she's forgiven him. polanski now faces possible extradition to the united states. this morning polanski's french lawyer said he found the arrest indefensible and he plans to fight not just the arrest, but any extradition proceedings the u.s. might attempt. for now roman polanski remains in custody here in zurich. we're told it's possible under swiss law he could apply for bail if he agrees to stay within switzerland. that is extremely rare for anyone to be granted that under these circumstances. mika? >> nbc's donna friesen in europe.

thank you. so many dimensions to this story, the fact that there was a civil settlement and that the victim doesn't want this to move forward. so many years later. at the same time, the crime, a rape, a terrible crime. >> a 13-year-old girl involved. you have a big hollywood actor. flees from justice, has a great career, gets away with it all. i'm not surprised the american people would come down and say bring the guy back and make him pay for the crime. >> bottom line is i agree with most of the e-mailers, a rape is a rape. >> if we covered the court system the way we cover the nfl or major league baseball, there would be riots in the streets if people realized that these sorts of things, people skipping on serious felony charges happens every hour of every day in every municipal court in this country. >> that doesn't necessarily make it okay. coming up, dr. oz and nicholas christoff. triple threat. owwww.... (announcer) not just sinus headache...

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looking live at st. louis this morning as the sun comes up. welcome back to "morning joe." our next guest is a cardiac surgeon and health expert who's the host of "the dr. oz show," dr. mehmet oz. thanks for coming on the show this morning. over the weekend you held -- and you took part in a free health care clinic at a houston convention center, where turnout was quite high. 2,000 people showed up for treatment, many who recently lost their health care and are in crisis. so i want to get a sense of what happened here because, first of all, were you expecting such a large number of people? this, of course, and we can put up more video and show the clinic if we can get a sense of the numbers. this is going to be the back drop of one of your shows, which is going to focus obviously on the health care crisis. >> we recognized we needed to shed some light on this issue of the uninsured america and to really put a face on it. just to be clear on this, people who get free clinic care in america are working people. 83% of the people that get free

clinic care, and there were 4 million last year, twice what it was the prior year, had jobds. i didn't meet anybody without a job. these are young people. i met a 14-month-old kid whose mom has a full-time job, and she can't get her kid the care she needs. so we thought we'll have a free clinic. houston has the highest percentage of the country, about one-third of the population not covered. we were overwhelmed, blown out completely within 48 hours. >> 1,784 people treated. 83%, as dr. oz said, are employed people. 881 prescriptions written. 25 cases of the flu diagnosed. >> is there anything in any of the proposed bills, the house bill or the senate bill, that you heard discussed that would cover the employed people who don't have health insurance? >> there are a few different parts of the bills, the different potential options out there that would accomplish this. the devil is in the details. what i really want to do -- in fact, it's not my main interest

to get into dollars and cents of how we do it -- if destabilizes society. if working people can't take care of their families. these people have no dignity. they're embarrassed. they felt shame. they did what they were supposed to do, and they don't feel counted by society. what they really experience more than anything else is being invisible to the rest of us. that is the tragedy of this country. >> dr. oz, why do you pick houston? what's up with that city in particular? >> texas has the highest percentage of uninsured in the country. we picked houston because it's a large metropolis. at the time, i didn't realize one-third of houstonians don't have coverage. people would shift jobs, which often is what happened, and they couldn't pick up coverage in the new position. the first person on the entire list of people coming in, she was there at 4:00 or 5:00 in the morning was a 45-year-old school teacher. still has a job, teaches kids every single day. she couldn't afford the increase in premium, so she had to make

the economic decision to stop. she and her seven kids were not getting covered. the problems they face are very straightforward simple ones. 49-year-old truck driver comes in with a foot ulcer is not healing, turns out he's a diabetic. about to lose his leg. we're taking a man who's a working member of society. you take off his leg, not only can he not do his job as a truck driver you're paying for him the rest of his life. penny wise, pound foolish. >> it's a preventative thing. obviously, you spend a few dollars, you get the bigger payoff. >> you walk in with an ulcer on your foot and you've got diabetes, don't you get care anyhow? isn't the problem we're talking about not that they're being denied care because you've got to treat him in hospitals and clinics under the law, but it's not being paid for. >> let's just take that diabetic truck driver. i asked him why he didn't go to the local hospital. there's a charity hospital there. if you don't get there by the close of workday on friday, you will not be seen by monday. he couldn't go to the emergency room because it takes two to

three days to get seen which means he can't work his job. he misses a day of work, and he doesn't have his job anymore. there was a gentleman who had such a large cancer growing out of his lip -- it had been biopsied many times. he couldn't get a job because of this thing on his face and couldn't get a job. you're like a ship pulling into dock without a captain. you smack into the dock and spew your oil around the harbor. not only do you not get the care you need, you get no value for the care. it becomes much more expensive for all of us because we're paying for it. we're going to pay for it no matter what. >> what do you do? you mentioned emergency rooms. you go into any emergency room, especially in big cities on a friday or saturday night, that's the doctor's office for a huge percentage of people who are there. that's their primary care physician. and many of them, i'm sure you are aware, are there. little kids are there because they have a snickers bar for breakfast at 7:00 in the morning or asthma, things that are truly

preventible if treated. what do we do about that? >> i spend 99.9% of my time focused on that very issue. how do you teach people to take charge? you're absolutely right. we've got to run the show ourselves. we're not going to win health care in washington. we're going to win it in the living rooms and dining rooms of american families. >> on exactly what you're saying -- and don't show the video right now, but the video i saw from your health care event, most of the people are obese. >> yes. >> how much of the conditions that you treateded had to do with -- i mean, you're talking about diabetes. you're talking about all sorts of conditions that are rooted in or exacerbated by obesity. >> chronic illness in this country, which drives 70% of the health care budget, is overwhelmingly the result of obesity. but if i put you db if i put each of you on food stamps, you will gain weight. >> right. >> because low income families understandably has to buy their food with high calories but no nutrients. your brain gets a schizophrenic message. you get the calories, the junk

food available in your local bodega, and your brain says, wait a minute. you gave me calories. i need more nutrients. give me more. those people end up eating a lot. i'm not trying to advocate the responsibility that folks have for their own well-being. we're not going to make a dent in health care in washington. it doesn't matter what plan you pick. they're all go bankrupt. unless we deal with the health of americans. you saw the film of roman polanski. the swiss system is an interesting system. the reason europeans cost half what we doft cost, they're twice as healthy as we are. >> how do you get americans to change behavior? >> we have to make it easy to do the right thing. did you guys walk to school when you were a kid? 60% of our generation did. you know what percentage of kids walk to school now? less than 10%. >> your question is aren't people in the last analysis responsible for their own behavior? if kids are sitting there eating candy bars and their parents arette willing them do it, even if they've got a single mom and they're putting all this junk in there, who is responsible for that other than the people

themselves? >> you are. you'll pay for that. >> ultimately, i'm not responsible for it. >> you'll end up paying for it. >> financially, you'll pay for it. >> no. we're already paying for it, aren't we? >> i'll give you one great example. the incidence of cigarette smoking in california is 14%. most southern states is closer to 25%. why can one state get it right? they're not smarter in california. they invested a significant statewide effort not just money, the leadership saying, you know what, we're going to make it easy for you to stop. >> they're broke. >> they are broke, but if they had the cigarette problem, they'd be even more broke. >> i agree. >> everything you mentioned opened the door to another problem. the kids not walking to school today, the number of public schools that don't even have recess anymore. >> and they're cutting the athletic program. >> you cannot have a wealthy country if you're not a healthy country. it's not going to happen. >> thank you. >> we have to invest in this to become competitive. we all agree on that. i know the devil is in the

details. i want to put a face. these people are like you and i. they made one wrong turn in life, and now they don't have health care coverage. this is the most destabilizing, disenfranchising problem in society. >> dr. oz, a pleasure to meet you. coming up, we're going to talk iran and afghanistan. bob woodward on the decision or lack thereof of the troops in afghanistan. how is the president leaning this morning? we'll check in on that. first we're going to recap the sunday morning talk shows and see how they're driving the political news this morning. also, tina brown from the daily beast on deck. you're watching "morning joe" brewed by starbucks. (male announcer) if you've had a heart attack

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so, at national, i go right past the counter... and you get to choose any car in the aisle. choose any car? you cannot be serious! okay. seriously, you choose. go national. go like a pro. has no choice today but to draw a line in the sand. on october 1st, iran must now join the international community as a partner. if it does not do so it will be further isolated. >> that was gordon brown on friday morning. we watched the president

together. we watched sarcozy, and then gordon brown took the stand. and let's start with gordon brown. did he turn the page in any way? >> what is interesting about gordon brown, he is so belittled and reviled in britain. they will not give him a break. they start bombarding him on a morning show, and it's about his sight issue with him. and it's become a blood sport almost. like what stupid thing did he do today. he did not seem to focus on the important things at hand, where he did do a good job at

responding on the financial crisis. and on iran, he is showing himself to be strong leaderly. the deathwatch is on in the uk, so i am not sure it will make a difference. >> in the uk, a lot of people think the u.s. is the great satan in iran. that's not true. and britain is the real great satan. when i was in mahmoud ahmadinejad, he laid into him. he heard his accent and the animosity between iran and england did greater than the animosity between iran and the united states, because it's a historical think going back decades and decades. >> it's interesting how a leader has to go abroad and all the garbage never falls away. >> you have got a couple really great pieces. roman polanski is one of the big

stories. he is in zurich on a rape case. >> yeah, this is a guy who has been to swits lund since this. >> having said that. this is tough. he raped a 13-year-old girl. >> i am not suggesting in any way that polanski did not do something egregious, but i do think that somebody has to feel that paw lan 60's life, running from the nazis and his wife murdered by manson and so forth, and nothing excuses what he did, but the victim wants to move on. >> yeah, and what is the end

game? put him in jail. >> yeah, and there was a documentary on that. >> you have a rich guy and he does this to the little girl and he is convicted and he flees the country and american people see this as having to do with justice. >> yeah, and he was complying with everything that he was asked to do, but he learned that the judge was saying off to people that i am going to nail that guy and put him in jail. >> it's never a good thing to run. i still wonder, who is driving the bus? somebody in the justice department? >> yeah, why did they pick this

time? >> thank you. still ahead, the "new york times" s, nicholas kristof. you watching "morning joe." how do you stop tacos falling over?

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welcome back to "morning joe." coming up on 8:00 here in new york. let's start our journey on the west coast. almost 5:00 a.m. there at lax, and then las vegas. and then st. louis. a beautiful shot. i used to work in st. louis. >> yeah, i remember that. in the 1960s. >> chicago. we heard from savannah that president obama will be traveling to copen haguen. and then let's take it to the white house, and then on home to new york city. and looking out there from the top of our building on new york city. >> all right. thank you, willie. that's great.

you are so talented. you should have your own show. >> we are just getting to the top of the hour. we have mike barnicle, and -- are you still mad at me? >> no, i was never mad at you. >> are you sure? i am feeling a chill. >> joe had surgery, sinus surgery, and he had a football injury when he was a teen and he had sinus problems, and he couldn't breathe. he will be back, better than ever. a great doctor, and should be better soon. >> bob woodward is joining us from washington, and he will talk about the afghanistan issue and mcchrystal report.

and good backup sidebar stories. the karzai government. and then of course, iran, our top story this morning. let's get a look at some of today's top stories. the country test fired one of the long-range missiles in the third round of military tests. the missile has the range to strike israel and u.s. basis in the region. this comes after the discovery of a second nuclear injury. >> the russians have come out with a strong statement saying the burden has now shifted, and it has shifted to the iran. they have to come to the meeting on october 1st and present convincing evidence as to the purpose of their nuclear program. we don't believe that they can present convincing evidence that it's only for peaceful purposes, but we are going to put them to

the test on october 1st. >> that's this thursday. we will see what happens. that's the deadline for something to actually happen here pertaining to iran in terms of the movement, whether it be sanctions or something more. and obama and the first lady will make a personal push for chicago to host the 2016 summer olympics. the president said he would not attend because of the health care debate. the international olympic committee is to announce the decision on friday. seems like there is a lot going on. >> i would not go there if it was not wired. >> my guess is he would not be going -- if it's going to be chicago, you want to go there and make the case, i did the job. but if they turn him down, he would not want to be there. it's wired. >> good point.

and finally, william safire died. he was 79 years old, and he won the pulitzer prize. pat, you know, the picture in the times of you looking like wally beaver along safire. that was great. >> well, we were out there really working them over until nixon said to bring those guys back. >> so it's highly appropriate that we had bob woodward on this morning. >> yeah, and with us this morning, bob woodward. last week bob broke the story on general mcchrystal's report

calling for more troops. bob is also the author of "a war within, a secret white house history." you know, i read the report. he is asking for a lot. clearly he wants to have success in afghanistan, but it seems like a whole lot of nation building, and is that something that we should be doing now especially with the state the military is in? >> i think that's the question. what president obama has directed, a series of really serious meetings in the white house with the national security

team and the military leaders to debate this. and there are very strong powerful arguments on both sides. so hopefully this will be a case where a president, instead of just getting the traditional option paper with one too strong and one too weak going in the middle, going to be a real debate and consideration of why we are in the war in afghanistan, and what we really want to achieve and what the likelihood of success is. >> bob, do you get the impression that -- let's use the word success, which is being thrown around here, as opposed to failure. let's take that one word, success. is the obama administration defining that word success differently than they were over at the pentagon? >> it's quite possible that they are. and part of the debate going on

in private about all of this is a number of people has said to a certain extent we already succeeded. al qaeda has not launched another attack in the united states, and that's the ultimate goal. so you know, have we won? there is the limited success. >> would it be fair to say general mcchrystal and admiral mullen, they want more in there otherwise they will fear the war, they want to box obama in? it's a big decision to make it now, and if you drawdown, you lose the war. are people in the white house like biden pushing back?

>> yeah, a lot going on. i would not say the military is hawkish on this, in the rational way they believe this is the way to do it. and if -- you saw mcchrystal on "60 minutes" last night, or looked at any of the other interviews with him, i think he is a man of conviction, and he believes this is the way to do it in the white house. people, like the vice president, they are saying wait a minute, we don't have to go this far. maybe we can conduct operations in a way to contain the taliban in afghanistan, and indeed keep al qaeda out. just to -- pat, as somebody that comes with a conservative

perspective. there is a very interesting article in the "weekly standard" out by fred and his wife kimberly, saying it's understandable that obama wants to examin this seriously. and so it may not be a hawk dove or left/right issue. >> well, they will work with the afghan government, which has questions that are being raised about it. tina brown says look at the karzai brothers. >> yeah, and we have an interview today of the karzai brothers, who are widely accused of drug dealing. how do you think the obama administration will confront the issue here? >> well, that's -- to conduct a

counter insurgency, a campaign where you want to win the people over, you are winning them over for the host government. if the host government, as in this case, is illegitimate, you come up with a zero. so that's a big problem here. and people are talking about how you get the karzai government to be less corrupt, and how you get it to govern with an even hand in a serious way. that's a monumental undertaking. >> willie? >> i want to shift gears to domestic politics. i want to get your reaction to bill clinton talking yesterday to david gregory on "meet the press." david brought it up, the vast white wing conspiracy line. this is what he said.

>> your wife talked about the vast white right wing conspiracy and you. >> well, they may be hurting president obama and they can run his opposition up and take his numbers down, but fundamentally, he and his team have a positive agenda for america. their agenda seems to be wanting him to fail. that's not a good prescription for america. >> is it true the opposition from the right is different and less effective in that for bill clinton? >> who knows. we will measure it from the out come. there are strong feelings on the both sides. i don't know whether labeling it that is right politically.

pat buchanan knows the conservatives throws a lot of mud pies, and so does the left. this is what people are saying by and large. >> i think bob is right. what you have developed in the '80s. fox news did not exist and columnists and other things. they act the same way, just like liberals do on the left. i think you have a more balanced -- for better or worse, the more balanced political situation than in the '60s and '70s, when nixon was alone. >> yeah, it gets ugly. real ugly. one of the things pat buchanan's old boss, nixon learned, is you hate the opposition and it's the poison that destroys you.

>> well, it's all amplified today, so much more so than 20 years ago. he has the incident. >> 24 hours right here, yeah, sure. >> and you need to be willing to talk about fringe elements as to bringing them into the national debate. it's a vaoice boxed affect. >> and yeah, none of the major media discussed or talked about it. >> yeah, "the new york times" took a while to get to that story. >> i would like to get back to one other element of the entire afghanistan thing. the pakistani intelligence service, if you accept the view that has been widely

published -- >> there is no doubt about that. >> what role does the pakistani intelligence play, and they are supposedly our allies, and the taliban is contained in afghanistan and the al qaeda is coming here and they are being partially protected by the pakistani intelligent services? >> what is convincing about this, and everybody says it's complex, and it is. the taliban is in afghanistan. al qaeda, as you point out, is in afghanistan. we are attacking them, not on the ground but with grown attacks. the worry here is what is the relationship between the taliban and al qaeda. there is a big debate in the intelligence community going on about that. but the isi, which is the pakistani intelligence service

has very long and complicated and ambiguous relations with the taliban that continue to this day, and of course, the united states doesn't like that one bit, but it's not something that you can stamp out instantly. >> real quickly, pat and then tina. >> bob mcchrystal seems to be saying to the president if you don't give me the troops we will lose the war, and hillary is saying if we lose the war al qaeda is back in afghanistan. isn't that the bottom line? >> no, here is the difficulty. nobody is saying -- as best i can tell, is saying let's get out of afghanistan entirely. we have a massive land army. there are people that argue that you can keep al qaeda out of afghanistan with less troops there. we are in a much better position

to do that with 68,000 less or more. this is one of the confusions in this debate. people are saying, oh, well, if we don't -- if mcchrystal doesn't get the troops, we lose. but that's not necessarily at all. >> tina, quick. i have a question too for bob. >> well, there was somebody saying the taliban are al qaeda, and he said they are -- >> just a second. >> they also said we have a moral obligation, of course to women who are nowhere in the debate. afghan had a proxy war with the soviet union. and now they were on our side on that. and then we had chaos, and the

taliban arrived to clean that up as far as the people were concerned. and the taliban went haywire and we have the taliban now. we have a moral obligation to afghanistan to finish the war? >> don't we, bob woodward? >> that's one side of the argument. if you go into the facts, and there are some really interesting intelligence briefings on this going on now, the taliban is not al qaeda, and vice versa. remember pre-9/11, the taliban ruled afghanistan let al qaeda have the sanctuary there. and that's what led in part to 9/11. after we invaded, al qaeda fled to pakistan. the taliban fled there also, or

some of the leaders, and they were thrown out of the leadership of their country because of the association with al qaeda. there is lots of information that the taliban leaders are not happy with the al qaeda association, and if they came back in to power in afghanistan, they would not want al qaeda there because al qaeda caused them to lose their empire. i am sorry, it's complicated. >> yeah, i know it is. give me a sense of the thought process here in terms of the trying to break a story? >> well, it was classified. we contacted the white house and the pentagon, and they didn't say don't public it, they said give us one day to come up with our assessment of the parts that should not be published. the editor and i met with the senior people at the pentagon

and went through it. we reached an agreement about two pages or maybe a little more of the 66-page document which had to do with priorities on future operations. we eliminated that and we were able to publish it and tell people exactly the arguments that general mcchrystal is making. some people accept them and think they are strong and some don't. but at least there is a real document, not somebody's whispered version of what they thought it said. >> what i am hearing in the news out of this, you worked with them on releasing this. that happens, i guess. >> yeah, that happens lots of times, but, you know, they would have -- as they have said, they would have preferred us to public nothing.

but, my god, how can you not public this? they wanted more out. our editors made very strong and defective arguments to them that say hey, look, we have to include certain elements here to reflect the very strong argument that general mcchrystal is making. if you read the report, it's a cry from the heart by the commander on the ground saying i need help. >> yeah, yeah. i think it's interesting issues from the journalists perspective, too. that must have been a long night before the release of that. bob woodward, thank you very much. i would love to have you back. fascinating on many levels. and tina, thank you as well. ex then coming up, we will talk about the iran firings and why it's a pivotal moment for the administration.

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are you confident you will get what you ask for? >> i am confident that i will have an absolute chance to provide my assessment and make my recommendations. >> which are already under pressure? >> not to ask for more. >> how does that affect what you do? >> not at all. i take this seriously. i believe what i am responsible to do is give my best assessment. >> can you imagine ever saying to the president of the united states, sir, we just can't do it? >> yes, i can. if i felt that way, the day i feel that way, the day i sure i

feel that way, i will tell him that. >> and now, welcome back to "morning joe." we have the coauthor of" half the sky turning opposition into opportunity for women worldwide." and does obama risk looking indecisive if he comes down the milts on this? >> well, he is already looking indecisive. i think he is looking indecisive in a good way, because earlier it looked like maybe he was sending up to 40,000 more troops. now he is backing away. i think more troops would have been a mistake. i am glad he is backing away. >> why do you think more troops would be a mistake? >> well, in southern and eastern afghanistan, the real insecurity is there. if we send more troops in there and have a bigger military

footprint, we drive the local population into the hands of the taliban. they don't like the taliban and don't like us. the more we go in, and -- well, pakistan has been improving lately. more troops in afghanistan drive pakistan also in the hands of the taliban. >> one of the more compelling story lines over the past seven or eight years, and it's partially what part of your book is all about, is the brutal treatment of women in afghanistan. do you think that we as a culture could accept the fact that afghanistan is too much of a military struggle of us, the taliban will control a good portion of the country and they will brutalize the women they deal with. can we live with that? >> well, the choice is not to

send in 40,000 more troops or with draw. i think we have to sustain a modest input. the larger point, can we -- are we going to live with the taliban brutalizing women in afghanistan, and i am afraid we are. if we go in there we make things worse and not better. >> general mcchrystal was saying if he doesn't get the 45,000 troops he risks "mission failure," and that means an american defeat. others said we are not winning the war but losing the war. does it make sense for america to fight a endless no-win war and bring home 70 caskets every month? >> i think it's unlikely the taliban is going to overthrow

all of afghanistan. i think what we are more likely to see is the taliban will control much of the rural areas in the south. we will hold the cities. it will be grim. but in that area we will not see so much fighting and so many caskets coming on. >> august has been the highest level we have had in a single month. they are going up. and mcchrystal says if i get the new trips they will still go up. >> well, that's because we sent an extra 21,000 troops in, and that's what empowered the taliban. if we pull back and have a lighter footprint, and if you are a farmer you don't see the americans coming in and trying to occupy your country, and then indeed the troop losses will go down to some degree. it will be a mess, whatever we do. >> what you just said is

probably the worse thing i would think for the administration, no good answer. they will need to look decisive given all the other crisis that we have around the world. let's talk about that in the round table, which we would like for you to stay for if you could. first, a look at business before the bell with cnbc's erin burnett, when "morning joe" continues. when we spend a billion dollars a day buying foreign oil... we don't just waste our money... we put our economy in the hands of hostile nations. we let big oil make record profits... while we struggle. and we lose new energy jobs, that go overseas. but we can take charge of our economy... by passing strong clean energy legislation. 1.7 million new american jobs. less carbon pollution. and a cleaner america for our children. it's time for clean american energy.

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welcome back to "morning joe." we are turning to cnbc's erin burnett. she is live at the new york stock exchange. >> lots of deals. this is up, hunting outdoor equipment. they are going to be going private. stocks are up 26% on that. not a big company, but my point is they were able to get financing and investors to go private. that's the headline crossing at this instant. lots of other deals, and deals indicate ceos confident enough that they are willing to let money go out the door. sierra yaux, they have a premium.

they are paying more than the company closed trading on friday. they are paying 36% more. and we are seeing premiums between 30 and 45. that shows they have confident for the growth aspects of the company. and abbott is having a good thing. and we have a good sign of optimism, guys, and the market should open up higher. >> that's great. >> bye, guys. nicholas kristof will stick around for the political round stable. >> this is a good story.

>> yeah, david leonhardt, he will be back with us. we'll be back with more "morning joe."

from the administration's point of view, is this the time for engagement, or the time to get tough? >> well, my answer is both. i always think that it's a good idea if possible to look somebody in the eye and have a chance to have a conversation before there is a total breach, but i think this is healthy that this has broken. >> the iranians keep insisting, no, no, this is just for peaceful purposes. i think as the russians said in their statement and what the maetding on october 1st is to test, fine, prove it. >> maybe we will find out more

on thursday, october 1st when that meeting happens between iranian representatives and six other nations, including the u.s. we have pat buchanan, and nick nichol nichol nicholas kristof. >> well, everything thinks iran will not come clean. it will probably allow people to visit the facility, but it will not end the enrichment. and there is going to be an opportunity for russia and china -- >> nobody knows china better than you. tough eer sanctions, will they

along with it? >> no, they won't. >> what do sanctions mean if china does not join? >> well, financial sanctions, like banks, for example, and that will hurt iran. and all this is going to hurt iran a bit, but not get them out of their nuclear operations? >> well, they hear tougher sanctions. are they laughing in our face? >> yeah, i think so. >> well, regime has lost legitimacy. if you cut off the gasoline, you are pushing them to the wall to the point where you could ignite -- that's close to a block aid. we don't want a nuclear iran or war with iran. >> or perhaps worse, tougher

sanctions might provide more popularity within iran for the regime. >> they cut off gasoline and they will all unite behind mahmoud ahmadinejad, because we are united behind having nuclear process, but not behind nuclear weapons. we have plenty of time. >> we do? >> yeah, this thing will not go on stream for 18 months, and they say they will enrich up to 5%, and that's not a threat. >> that doesn't chip the new president's leadership on the world stage, to have him laughing at him. >> i think obama handled it well. i think he is moving along on the right pace to get everybody aboard. i think he has the russians aboard. you are probably right about the chinese. i think he is doing the right

thing. i am an obama man. >> this is a news story right here. right here, a news story. >> yeah, i want that as our "morning joe" moment in what we learned. pat buchanan, giving the old backing to president obama. roman polanski, busted over the weekend in a rape of a 13-year-old girl that happened over 30 years ago. and this is his victim. she had a simple settlement years ago, and she does not want him charged in the crime against her. and there is a lot of controversy over whether or not he should have been hauled in to custody over the weekend, but he was. anybody want to chime in after the e-mails that we have gotten chastising the opinions on this set? >> well, my view on it is not in defense of roman polanski.

let's take a look at what happens every single day in our judicial system. all of a sudden we pay enormous attention to roman polanski because he is a celebrity. pay attention to what happens every single day. >> yeah, and he is a big popular figure afraud, and getting all of the life-time awards and why shouldn't they drop the hammer on the guy? >> we are getting a lot of e-mails on this. >> yeah, people are mad at you? >> because you took the side that polanski should have have be tracked down in switzerland? >> no, i just said i think it's

ridiculous that -- >> no, who asked them to grab the guy? >> there is clearly somebody out to get him. >> and the u.s. attorney is trying to make a name for himself. >> my only point was there was a civil settlement and the woman that was victimized doesn't want to press charges, and doesn't want to move forward with this. this is difficult. i don't support that, either. i am just reporting it. >> a lot of people say don't press charges against so and so but they committed a crime against the state. >> i am just trying to hide out here. i am sympathetic to your review that one should defer to the

wishes of the victim. if she wants to move on, then in general -- >> now you are making it more complicated. if the victim was still 13 i am not sure i would defer to her wishes. but she is a woman well into adulthood and re-established her life. i wanted to make sure that i am clear that i don't support letting a rapist run free. we have to talk about william safire that passed away over the weekend. >> we have a picture of pat and safire from 30 years ago. >> i think the thing he treasured most was having been a presidential speechwriter. he treasured that.

he started a society, and all of the former speech writers were in it. and yeah he really loved having done that. >> i disagree with bill on, you know, i disagreed with him on everything, but he was a wonderful colleague. when he first came to the new york city times, he was greeted with a lot of suspicion, but won everybody over with his charm. i saw that firsthand when we were in china, my wife and i. my wife has her credentials taken away by the china government, and he came out and used his connections with a high-level opinion and charmed him, and then just as a favor to me, if you could give cheryl back her credentials, i would appreciate it. that worked. he was a diplomat as well.

>> he was very generous with colleagues, and two, and given the tenure of the times we live in now, he was not a mean-spirited person. had his criticism and views, many of which i disagreed with as well, but not a mean spirited person. >> up next, a colleague degree, is it comparable to locking somebody in a closet for four years. i am just quoting. our next guest there. we'll be right back. [ horns hon]

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here with us now, economicics editor, david. he asked does the college make the student or does the student make the college. david, what is the answer to this question? >> i think the first thing to say when we are having this discussion, a college degree is

no guarantee as anything. particularly in a recession as deep as this one. it's important to say that at the outset. now, we want to think about as an investment, is a college degree worth it? and the answer is overwhelmingly, yes. and the gap between what graduates made compared to what everybody else made rose to a high. now, there are all kinds of finer green research in which they do natural experiments. >> my wife and i read this last night and debated it, and we decided we are going to lock our kids in a closet for four years. that's what you say in the piece. layout the skeptic's argument?

>> they are saying some kids are more talented and some are less talented. and the fact that the more talented kids go to college is not why they do well. that's where the lock them in the closet line comes from, a "20/20" show that had skepticism about a college degree. they said a lot of colleges don't do that good of a job. a lot of graduates don't end up doing so well, which is true because we are in a recession. when they point to exceptions, it's a little grim. a lot of people this weekend drove drunk and did not get in an accident. that in no way proves driving drunk vastly improves your chance of getting into an accident. >> david, i have seven kids. i buy the college worth in four out of the seven cases.

we measured college degrees, but don't we measure it wrongly in terms of how much money they make and then in terms of what they are doing when they are 25 or 26. if you buy the argument that life doesn't count until you are 30, shouldn't we be looking at what people are doing later in life? >> the studies that look for natural experiments where similar kids, some get educated and some don't, they do find a big boost to education. and they do look much later than 25 and 30. they go years out. but your first point that, look, college is not always going to make sense, and earnings is not the right way to measure everything. but the problem is, we don't have wonderful data on life satisfaction. there are lots of college graduates not being that satisfied. on that, they are healthier and they make more and are more

satisfied. >> all right, david leonhardt, thank you very much. >> i am unsatisfied. >> seven kids? >> do you have a form education? >> no, i can't even write. >> up next, what, if anything, did we learn today. how to get rich, by america's health insurance companies. raise health insurance premiums 4 times faster than wages. pay your ceo twenty four million dollars a year. deny payment for 1 out of every 5 treatments doctors prescribe. if the insurance companies win, you lose. tell congress to rewrite the story. we want good health care we can afford with the choice of a public health insurance option. tdd# 1-800-345-2550 when my broker said, "i make money when you make money," tdd# 1-800-345-2550 he neglected to mention

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let him ride the lightning rod? >> pat buchanan. >> i learned americans are not a forgiving people. >> no, no, no. >> and then willie? >> they want roman polanski, a lot are saying to arrest him and throw him away. >> and i learned the lightning man -- >> i thought he handled it well on friday. he planned this cool. he is my main man. >> willie, i got nothing more to say. if it's way too early? >> it's time for "morning joe." but now it's time for the "morning meeting" with dylan ratigan.