and iran has to live up to its entire national obligations. >> upping the ante. iran test-firing missiles just days before a critical showdown over its nuclear programs. how will president obama respond to this new provocation? war council. the president about to meet with his entire national security team, charting a new way forward in afghanistan. can the u.s. win without sending more troops? the vast right-wing conspiracy. is it alive and well? bill clinton weighing in on whether he thinks president obama is the new target of the far right fringe. finally, caught. 32 years after pleading guilty, then bolting from the country, oscar-winning director roman polanski is back behind bars for having sex with an under age girl. should he still serve time three decades later? >> you stood up for yourself and you're [ bleep ] lucky for that. >> and how anything can happen on live tv.

why snl may not have to worry about a fine about that late-night "f" bomb. >> good afternoon, i'm tamron hall live in new york. >> and i'm norah o'donnell live in washington. david schuster has the day off. the white house calls iran's latest missile test provocative, and needs to make a decision about whether to step away from its nuclear program. the response comes after iran test fired a new round of advanced missiles today. these missiles are capable of reaching israel, u.s. military bases and some places in europe. five world powers will meet for nuclear talks in geneva. robert gibbs spoke about what the administration expects from iran. >> they can, as i just said, agree to immediate, unfettered access. i think that would be the least that they can do. >> tougher sanctions could be on the way for iran. senior administration officials

say those could include a cutoff of investments to iran's oil and gas industry. and restrictions on many more iranian banks. one call is professor middle eastern history at the university of michigan and the author of several books on iran. professor, good to see you. thanks so much for joining us. are sanctions going to do the trick? >> well, sanctions never have done the trick before. iraq was under sanctions, and it devastated the iraqi economy. what really did the trick in iraq was thorough u.n. inspections. people don't often give them the respect they deserve. but those inspectors found and dismantled all of iraq's mass destruction program. so i think the demand by the white house that iran open up completely and transparently to inspections is key. >> that is key, and something that hillary clinton was very clear about yesterday on "face the nation," saying it's time to

essentially put up or shut up. those are my words. but about showing what they have. let's listen to what she said. >> the iranians keep insisting, no, no, this is just for peaceful purposes. well, i think as the russians said in their statement and as we believe, and what this meeting on october 1st is to test, is fine, prove it. >> what about that? this secret facility? any sense that the iranians will cooperate? >> well, the iranian president mahmoud ahmadinejad has said that the newly announced facility is not hot, there are nuclear materials there now, and it will be open to u.n. inspections. and that's absolutely crucial to reassure the national community. if iran drags its feet on that, if it doesn't let inspectors into the new facility, there is a strong suspicion that it might be put to weapons purposes. >> and let me ask you, too, about the russians, because certainly the russians have an

interest with iran being so close by them, and neighbor, and, of course, there are huge interests in iran. any indication that russia is willing to get tougher with iran? >> well, the prime minister, vladimir putin, who we all think actually runs things, has said no more sanctions. and the chinese also have indicated that they're uncomfortable with tightening sanctions on iran. both countries do a lot of business with iran. and china in particular imports a lot of petroleum. so it may be difficult to convince them. but i think if there is one thing that would do it, it's a big facility like the new one that is not being inspected and is suspicious. >> no doubt. thank you very much. we appreciate it. >> and nora, now to "the bigger picture," reaction from inside iran. the head of iran's nuclear program said he was shocked by the west's angry reaction to the revelation of iran's second uranium enrichment facility. nbc news, tehran bureau chief

joins us live. i want to start off with these tests. the long-range missile in particular, knowing that it has the capability of reaching israel or some u.s. military bases. what kind of message was iran trying to send to the west and others who will be meeting october 1st? >> well, tamron, they were flexing their military muscles. they were saying that they're a force to be reckoned with, and they want a strong arm going into these negotiations. one of the leading generals of the revolutionary guard said today this is a show of iran's might, and we're a country to be reckoned with. so they're using this as a tough negotiation tactic. >> and speaking of negotiations, do we know the direction or the tone iran will take on october 1st? certainly no one expects them to suddenly throw up arms and agree to everything. >> well, tamron, the expectation is apparently low. president mahmoud ahmadinejad has continually stated this is iran's sovereign right to have a nuclear program, and that any

meaningful talks on a nuclear program are off the table. he has been very clear about that. he said he'll talk about global issues, et cetera, but the nuclear issue is off the table. so the expectations have got to be pretty low going into these meetings on thursday. >> and what are the -- i can't say that all -- i don't want to put you on the spot to speak for everyone, but what is the tone from the iranian people, knowing that they're a cause for sanctions and powerful allies like china and russia? >> well, the grass roots people are deeply concerned about sanctions here, because it will have a direct effect on their life. in the four years i've been here, three sets of sanctions have been imposed on iran, and in these four years, inflation has quadruple he would, so people are very, very worried that the economic situation here will become even worse with the new set of sanctions. >> all right. nbc's ali aruzi, thank you very much. and that's a great point. obviously, nora, that ally makes about the hardship, and you heard president obama mention that, as well, the hardships of

the iranian people, if there are sanctions and putting the government on the spot. in if a sense, putting the government against the turmoil that the people will endure if there are more sanctions. >> yeah. we've already seen the arrest in iran already this year. all right, tamron. also want to update you on the breaking news at the los angeles airport. officials now say no threat was found aboard flight 22 to new york which had been delayed indefinitely from taking off. the threat was triggered by a passenger who insisted on using the rest room as the plane was taxiing to the runway. he and two other men were removed from the plane. tom costello joins us now from washington. and tom, what's the latest with these new details? >> reporter: well, the fbi and the lapd both tell us they do not believe there was a thing here that was any criminal intent or any terrorist intent. what happened was, this individual apparently decided as the plane is rolling down the tarmac that he had to go to the bathroom. right then. got into the rest room, and was

in there for about a minute, and when he got out, the flight attendant noticed that a panel in the restroom had been moved or had been removed. she asked him what happened, he said, nothing. she alerted the pilot, the pilot turned the plane back to the gate. the fbi and the pd, lapd have been investigating. sources say this suspect claims that he got confused. he couldn't figure out how to use the water, he thought maybe there was a problem with the water turnoff involve or turn on valve and was messing with it underneath the water spigot, if you will, inside the rest room, and that's all he was doing, it was benign. nonetheless, this clearly got a lot of people concerned, returned to the gate, they removed him and two traveling companions. they have been questioning all three men and believe no charges are likely and that it was a fool hardy thing to do, but there was no criminal intent. >> tom, do we know, was this passenger a foreigner or an

american? >> we don't know. although we have an nbc producer on board who claims that all three were speaking arabic to each other, but we don't know their nationalities. we do know they were supposed to go from l.a. to new york and on to cairo. >> all right. nbc's tom costello with those latest details. tom is always great reporting. and tamron, just goes to show you i think a lot of people are on hair-trigger with the arrests that have been made in the last couple weeks. >> absolutely nora. and eight months after making a miracle landing in the hudson river -- on the hudson river, captain chesley "sully" sullenberger has a new job in addition to his flying duties. he will now work as a management pilot, joining the usairways safety management team. it was back in january when "sully" successfully landed flight 1549 in the hudson river without a single fatality, thank god. "sully" says he has had some unforgettable experiences since then, but has missed working with his colleagues.

pretty cool and interesting guy. >> yeah, back to work. all right, coming up, a look at the legal case against oscar-winning director roman polanski, arrested for having sex with an underage girl three decades later. also, inside the taliban, rare insight into america's enemy in in afghanistan, as president obama considers a pivotal shift in strategy. you're watching "the big picture" on msnbc. bossso word's gettin' out that geico can help people save in even more ways - on motorcycle insurance, rv, camper, boat insurance. nice work, everyone. exec: well, it's easy for him. he's a cute little lizard. gecko: ah, gecko, actually - exec: with all due respect, if i was tiny and green and had a british accent

i'd have more folks paying attention to me too... i mean - (faux english accent) "save money! pip pip cheerio!" exec 2: british? i thought you were australian. gecko: well, it's funny you should ask. 'cause actually, i'm from - anncr: geico. fifteen minutes could save you fifteen percent or more on car insurance. vroom... vroom. okay, time's up. here ya' go ! that's a nice one, i made that. that's a piece of junk. yeah. i want the red truck. well, you can't have the red truck. see, that was a limited-time offer only. it's, ah, right here in the fine print. even kids know it's wrong to hide behind fine print. why don't banks ? we're ally, a new bank who always gives you a great rate, with nothing burieine print. it's just the right thing to do. [ with nothing burieine print. according to a study presented by better homes and gardens, definity color recapture. it corrects the look of wrinkles and discoloration. 50,000 voters. one brilliant winner.

we're back with developments today following the arrest of

oscar-winning director roman poe han ski in switzerland. >> polanski will fight extradition to california. he is wanted there to face justice for having sex with a 13-year-old girl back in 177. meantime, friends in poland where polanski has dual citiship, urged for him to be freed on bail and hillary clinton to grant clemency. he was arrested saturday as he arrived in zurich to receive a lifetime achievement award. joining us, former u.s. attorney kendall coffee. thanks for joining us. we certainly appreciate it. people are asking about the timing here. roman polanski, according to reports, he has a home there in switzerland. he has had a number of ski vacations. it wasn't as if he thought he should hide in switzerland. so what can we learn from his timing here? >> well, first of all, he -- whatever he was doing in switzerland, he had to know that there was an extradition treaty, and he was in harm's way the

minute he left the safe haven of france. but i think what probably stirred up the interest was recent documentary, 2008, about roman polanski, raising questions about the whole issue. so a fugitive situation that was sort of asleep all of a sudden flared up and got the interest of the d.a. in los angeles. the rest as we we know came down with the arrest in zurich. >> some have said it's not a good idea that, it could take a long time, that it would be in his best interest, if you will, to come and face the music. >> well, i think very well so. because fighting extradition in his situation is almost hopeless. there's no real issue. the u.s. has a very firm, effective treaty with switzerland. in fact, it was sponsored by president bill clinton. it is, of course, his wife, secretary of state, who is going to be asked to take steps to enforce the treaty. and why put himself in a situation where he is incarcerated for weeks, for

months? who knows, maybe even years if they want to keep fighting it out in switzerland, when inevitably, he will face the music in los angeles. >> kendall, i've struck how many times i've heard today people say this was 1977 and there was a judge who may have not had -- may not have been the most honorable of judges. is that relevant at all? >> well, i don't think it's going to matter much. from the standpoint of law enforcement, a fugitive that's living a life, having a good life overseas, not facing the charges in the u.s., is an eyesore. and they will not negotiate almost always -- won't negotiate with fugitives. the position of law enforcement is come home, then we'll talk. fugitives often say, don't want to take that chance. i would rather walk. here, of course, he walked right into the arms of swiss authorities, and sooner or later, he's going to be back in a los angeles courtroom to finally get the sentence that he has been, frankly, running from all these years. >> so kendall, you think that

the secretary of state, hillary clinton, will reject polanski and his lawyers' appeals and allow for him to be extradited? >> i think she will. i'm sure she is going to be very respectful to foreign 2k3w069. but at the end of the day, it was a crime under u.s. law. by today's standards, it's considered a serious crime. and i do not see hillary clinton failing to back up law enforcement in her own country in order to accommodate for foreign officials about a very controversial record that in the eyes of the u.s. law has been all these years a fugitive from justice. >> and one more question. if and when roman polanski is brought back here, i imagine he will be placed blind bars, because he is a flight risk. what is the process following that? i'm sure his attorneys will try for an appeal, but he has a conviction here. >> well, he has already pled guilty. when he comes back to the uds, it's for the sentencing. there may be some post conviction issues that they're

trying to raise. we have been reading about that over the years. but i think the likelihood is going to be that he will be sentenced, probably not a very long jail term under all of the circumstances. but it wouldn't surprise me if he gets some jail time, and at least he can put this behind him. at least the cloud that's followed his life for 30 years will dissipate. >> and one more question for you. a lot of people are bringing up the fact that the victim, 13 at the time, now a grown woman, does not want to proceed forward here. that she -- i think the description was, wants this all to go away. is that relevant at all at this point? >> it's highly relevant. there's great concern about what victims feel, and if that victim comes into court and says, no jail time for roman owe lan ski, that is the best thing he could hope for. >> interesting. all right kendall coffee, thank you so much. former u.s. attorney. nora, fascinating development. i've heard the news, both of us were knowing that this man, this great director, had fled the country under these awful, and

if you read the reports, disgusting charges that he was convicted of. and now we're at this point where he may be back here to face that. it's interesting. >> yeah. that's right. and you asked a great question to kendall coffee about whether they'll take into account her wishes, the victim's, and so maybe he could come back, plead guilty, and then would be released. i have a feeling this is a story that we're going to be following for the next couple weeks. with the new twists and turns. >> and nora, kendall said they would take her statement in consideration, but there are some other legal analysts who say that they would not, because she was a child at the time, and there are law to say protect the victim, as in the case of domestic violence, or people who are victims can sometimes be intimidated. so you need the law to prejt you. still ahead, new fears about this year's swine flu season. look at this video. hospitals so overwhelmed by the flu, they're treating people outside in tents! >> unbelievable. but first, a debut to remember on "saturday night live." whoa! >> ooh.

>> whoa! >> potty mouth. >> "big picture" on msnbc. ♪ i was feeling at home ♪ had a poor credit score ♪ and the number would haunt me wherever i'd go ♪ ♪ thought i'd move to a place where my credit could stink ♪ ♪ and nobody would care ♪ i just wish that somebody had told me ♪ ♪ that place was a renaissance fair! ♪ ♪ free credit report dot com! tell your friends, ♪ ♪ tell your dad,tell your mom! ♪ never mind, they've been singing our songs ♪ ♪ since we first showed up with our pirate hats on! ♪ ♪ if you're not into fake sword fights ♪ ♪ pointy slippers and green wool tights ♪ ♪ take a tip from a knight who knows ♪ ♪ free credit report dot com, let's go! ♪ legal vo: offer applies with enrollment in triple advantage it's not always easy living with copd, but i try not to let it hold me back... whether i'm at the batting cages... down by the lake or... fishing at the shore. i'm breathing better... with spiriva. announcer: spiriva is the only once-daily inhaled maintenance treatment for both forms of copd, which includes chronic bronchitis and emphysema. i take it every day. it keeps my airways open...

to help me breathe better all day long. and it's not a steroid. announcer: spiriva does not replace fast-acting inhalers for sudden symptoms. stop taking spiriva and call your doctor if your breathing suddenly worsens, your throat or tongue swells, you get hives, or have vision changes or eye pain. tell your doctor if you have glaucoma, problems passing urine or an enlarged prostate, as these may worsen with spiriva. also discuss the medicines you take, even eye drops. side effects may include dry mouth, constipation and trouble passing urine. my doctor said i could be doing more to breathe better and now i am. announcer: ask your doctor about lifestyle changes and once-daily spiriva. [ birds squawking ] [ moos ] [ man announcing ] if you think about it, this is what makes theladders different from other job search sites. we only want the big jobs.

welcome to theladders. a premium job site for only $100k+ jobs and only $100k+ talent. it doesn't cover everything. and what it doesn't cover can cost you some money. that's why you should consider... an aarp medicare supplement insurance plan... insured by united healthcare insurance company. it can help cover some of what medicare doesn't... so you could save up to thousands of dollars... in out-of-pocket expenses. call now for this free information kit... and medicare guide. if you're turning 65 or you're already on medicare, you should know about this card; it's the only one of its kind... that carries the aarp name -- see if it's right for you. you choose your doctor. you choose your hospital. there are no networks and no referrals needed. help protect yourself from some of what medicare doesn't cover. save up to thousands of dollars... on potential out-of-pocket expenses... with an aarp medicare supplement insurance plan... insured by united healthcare insurance company.

call now for your free information kit... and medicare guide and find out... how you could start saving. you know, there are a lot of things considered news in this world. >> i love the way you read that, nora. you sound like that movie, "the anchorman." but there are stories that make us say -- >> no way! >> so jenny slatener started her career on snl this weekend with a bomb. the f-bomb, that is. slatener was portraying a biker chick along with kristin wig when she used -- they were use the word frickin over and over, and suddenly the expletive flew from her lips before she could pop it back in, and from the look on her face, realized what she had done almost immediately. >> you frikin just through an ashtray of butts at my head. you know what, you stood up for yourself and i'm [ bleep ] lucky

for that. . >> lauren michael's says it was just a slip of the tongue but particularly traumatic because it was slate's first sketch ever on the show. snl has been on for more than three decades and the last time someone used that slur word on snl was 1981 when charles rocket said the same word. the fcc can't fine snl this time around, because the word was used after 10:00 p.m. i didn't know there was a cutoff time for the f word. >> i didn't know there was a cutoff, too. you learn something new every day. and i have a feeling that loren michaels wasn't washing her mouth out with soap. good publicity for them. with the start of breast cancer awareness month, or i should say a few days away, there is a group of brave women that took to the skies above california. 181 female sky divers from 31 countries joined together to set a new women's formation sky-diving record.

beautiful, isn't it? raised $500,000 to help fight the disease, and participants included breast and other cancer survivors. >> that is awesome video. >> totally awesome. >> gosh. >> well, you know, this is not certainly as awesome, but it's a talker. pope benedict the 16th had some unexpected company when giving his speech in the czech republic recently. look at that red dot. that's the highlight of somebody who joined the audience but wasn't invited. that was a spider. the audience couldn't believe what they were seeing, and eventually made its way to the upon active's neck! yes, before crawling back down. didn't seem to bother the pope one bit. didn't bother him perhaps because he didn't see it. you can usually feel a spider, but can't see it. and probably didn't know he was there. my mother said, thankfully i'm not a famous person, because you guys pay attention to everything. >> exactly. every detail. >> every detail.

finally, here is the latest video gone viral on the web, showing a man on a bicycle high-fiving people as they try to hail cabs in new york city. some get angry, some laugh, some pretend it didn't happen. the video has been viewed nearly 70,000 times in the past few weeks. look at him. >> that's pretty funny. that's kind of -- i think that contessa needs to get that guy on her show and interview him. because that would be a fun interview. >> just book it for her, and i'm sure she'll pass him on. >> tell her i said so. you see her up there in new york. i'll send her an e-mail. >> i'm here for your messages. go ahead. >> coming up, our face-off on the vast right wing conspiracy. >> yes, was bill clinton right when he said the new target is president obama no laughing matter. some people really speak their interests when they heard this. but first, know your enemy. a rare look inside the taliban has the pentagon and the warehouse consider a shift in strategy. some are wondering if al qaeda and the taliban are even on the

same page anymore. this is "the big picture" on msnbc. when we spend a billion dollars a day buying foreign oil... we don't just waste our money... we put our economy in the hands of hostile nations. we let big oil make record profits... while we struggle. and we lose new energy jobs, that go overseas. but we can take charge of our economy... by passing strong clean energy legislation. 1.7 million new american jobs. less carbon pollution.

and a cleaner america for our children.

i'm jane wells with your cnbc market wrap. stocks posting gains. the dow up 124 points. the nasdaq up 39. a court-appointed trustee plans to sue members of bernard maidoff's family in an effort to reclaim $200 million. the suit named madoff sons, his brother and niece, alleging they were all executives at his firm and should have known about the $65 billion fraud. xerox plans to buy affiliated computer services in a deal currently valued at $5.5 billion after the stock dropped. the deal would boost the signs of xerox's services business and move further away from its roots as a printer company.

apple says customers have downloaded more than 2 billion apps in the last year-and-a-half, and there are now 85,000 apps for the phone, up from are 65,000 in july. want to know how big a deal that is? there's an app for that. that's it for first msnbc, first in business worldwide. >> welcome back, i'm tamron hall, live in new york. >> and time norah o'donnell live in washington. >> swine flu is not the headlines lately, but certainly a lot of people being affected by this. it's prompted hospitals even to take some extraordinary measures. in tennessee and texas, hospitals have set up special tents outside, as they brace for a possible on slaught of new patients. and this comes with cnc saying 26 states with swine flu activity. the swine flu vaccine will be available a cup emweeks from

now. we're joined from a special hospital in memphis. reaction of patients when they get there, and they see the tents, almost like a quarantine, kind of intimidating. >> reporter: it is, but this hospital is used to seeing a lot of emergency patients. it tends to the most serious cases in this area, but they cannot handle, cameron, what they have seen ever since school started. they're used to 150, 160 patients a day. that has surged well past 300. so this -- what you see behind me, the tents, are necessary for them. frankly, to do business. and to be caring for the move serious patients actually in the hospital. what's been happening is people are using hospitals all over the country, not just here in memphis, as kind of primary care providers, because so many people are without medical insurance right now. and every day, hundreds of cars are pulling up here with sick children, children who don't necessarily need hospitalization, but parents are concerned about the swine flu. their children have sore throats, cough, fever, and so

they come here, they're processed through the triage tent. those who need hospitalization, which has been very few so far, are sent into the hospital. the others are given medication or just a prescription for what type of care they need at home. but certainly it's a alarming sight. and it's fully staffed and equipped with doctors and nurses caring for these children. >> and janet, i'm curious, a lot of people get calls around this time of the year, and the first thing you say is, oh, i hope i don't have swine flu. are a lot of the cases coming in people who are just kind of nervous because they have symptoms and actually don't have swine flu? >> absolutely. a majority of them just have a common cold, or the flu. but they're coming in here, because they are concerned. and as i said, because many of them don't have or can't afford a primary care doctor. so that's really the purpose of the tent. and they are prepared here as they are in austin, texas, to leave this up for a period of several months. they say that we are not at the hike of this outbreak. and far from it, tamron. so it's going to be a while.

>> all right, nbc's janet sh shamlian. thank you. >> and open debate within the obama administration about sending tens of thousands more american soldiers to fight in afghanistan. the president is going to gather his entire national security team tomorrow, where he is likely to hear calls for sending more troops into an increasingly violent war zone. he could also hear from some of his inner circle, such as have happened biden to scale down american forces and bring them home. general stanley mcchrystal, the top u.s. commander in afghanistan told "60 minutes" he plans to give the president the unvarnished truth. >> can you imagine ever saying to the president of the united states, sir, we just can't do it. . >> yes, i think. and if i felt that way, the day i feel that way, the day i'm sure i feel that way, i'll tell him that. >> but secretary of defense robert gates talked about the decision of defending the troops in a very different way. of. >> the notion of time lines and

exit strategies and so on, frankly, i think would all be a strategic mistake. the reality is, failure in afghanistan would be a huge set back for the united states. >> and in the "bigger picture," the president's decision to come do you know whether or not military advisors tell him the taliban can be defeated. it's entitled "the mind of the taliban" and here's what a recruiter says u.s. forces are up against. quote, the resistance is getting stronger day by day. commanders are being captured and killed, but that has not stopped us, and won't personally. i think all this talk about al qaeda being strong is u.s. pr propagan propaganda. the director of editorial development for "newsweek" thanks for joining us. this morning there was a great conversation with "washington post" bob woodward about the taliban and al qaeda, if they are on the same team. or what is the true relationship there. and who the enemy is for our

troops, quite honestly. >> right. exactly. in afghanistan itself, we're fighting taliban members, but even that term encompasses a whole range of people. i think if you read this story, which is from taliban, talking about their experience in 2001 until now, they all say that the role of al qaeda was much, much bigger in the beginning, in 2002, in 2003, they helped them remanufacture, but they are much less involved now. >> who is the enemy there? >> that's what president obama needs to decide. this strategy that -- talked about in march was to defeat all al qaeda. now the question is, does that mean defeating the entire -- all the groups that we call taliban in afghanistan, or does it mean reconciling with some of them, peeling them off, making them part of the governing structure there, and concentrating on what really al qaeda is. >> what about some of the people out there who say that things that worked in iraq, such as this surge, but also going in and finding those moderate voices there, and paying them.

>> right. >> in a sense to help the united states. can that happen with the taliban? is there a negotiating or bargaining tool outside of military force that can be used? >> it's -- i mean, that's a big question there. and we haven't really tested the proposition yet. like i said, there are huge range of people within what we call the taliban. some of them -- the majority of them, according to the u.s. military, are doing this just for the money. and are not i had logically driven. there are others, including people we interview in this story, who are driven by ideology, are not going to be susceptible to bribes, essentially. but they are -- they don't necessarily make up the majority of the force. >> i want to get in here. something that "new york times" columnist frank rich about afghanistan. i want to read from his column. he said as much as vietnam could not be secured by china, france, japan, or the united states, afghanistan has been a notorious graveyard for alexander the great, the british and the

soviets, and north vietnam provided sanctuary and facilitated support to our enemy then. so pakistan serves our enemy today. what do you make of what frank rich wrote about this on sunday, about this sort of intractable landscape in many ways that afghanistan prevents our armed forces? it. >> it's a critical point. when you read the story, what really strikes you is that at the end of 2001, beginning of 2002, this -- the taliban were essentially defeated. these fighters talk about having mental problems, depression, going to see doctors, because they are so distraught over how thoroughly they have been beaten. but all these people fled to pakistan, they had room there to reconstitute themselves, they had other pash tan tribal people who would provide them with weapons and space to train and organize. and that was critical to how

they got themselves together, and continues to be critical now. pakistanis where they go to be wounded, where they send their families to be safe, where they get their money and supplies from. >> the definition of victory, people have -- it's been across the board. some say you have victory, but you have al qaeda on the run, and they are hiding in the mountains there. but the other part of the conversation, you hear a lot of americans bring up, especially is the treatment of women. and that that should be a part of the moral responsibility in conquering or defeating the taliban. how does that play out there? >> well, it's an interesting thing. the -- the majority of afghans do not favor the taliban in terms of things like that. they would prefer girls go to school, prefer women not to be oppressed. but at the moment, on day-to-day basis, if you're an afghan villager, you want to be safe. you want to not be killed. and the government either doesn't protect you or sort of forces you to pay bribes to do every last little thing. so of course you're going to throw in your lot with the

people who will keep you safe, which may be the taliban. >> and i think nora has one more question. go ahead, i'm sorry. >> oh, i was just going to ask, about there was also about this must-read book now for president obama's war teams, "lessons in disaster" by gold steen who collaborated with george bun dewho was the national security advisor on the vietnam war. how significant do you think it is that obama's team, that everybody on that national security team is being tasked with reading this book, "lessons in disaster" about what happened, all those fateful decisions in vietnam? >> j well, it's a thing nobody wants to talk about. we did a cover called "obama's vietnam" i think back in january or february. and got slammed for it from a lot of different quarters. and the comparison can be a little -- it's not exactly the same situation. but we have made some of the same mistakes. some of the same problems are there, as you noted, with pakistan. and it's -- i think it's

actually smart that they're paying attention to the parallels, even if they don't like to use the word "vietnam" very much. >> thank you so much. of "newsweek" magazine. a great conversation and great article. >> just ahead. >> bill clinton, and the vast right wing conspiracy. we've been talking about that, tamron. >> the same people who were said to be after president clinton in the '90s, trying to derail president obama? is it the same theme? we're going to take a close look at it. my name's lisa.

i'm from fayetteville, north carolina, ...and i smoked for 29 years. the one thing about smoking - is it dominates your life, and it dominated mine. and the sad thing about it is that you can always use an excuse if cigarettes don't kill me, oh well - something else will. but, you can't use that as an excuse. i honestly loved smoking, and i honestly didn't think i would ever quit. it was very interesting that you could smoke on the first week. chantix gave me that extra help that i needed to get through a tough time. (announcer) chantix is a non-nicotine pill. in studies, 44% of chantix users were quit during weeks 9 to 12 of treatment, compared to 18% on sugar pill. it is proven to reduce the urge to smoke. i did have an unopen pack of cigarettes in my purse and then i think i opened my purse and realized it was still there. and i said, "what the heck, i don't need these..."

...i said, you know, "bye, i don't need you anymore, you're not my crutch, i don't need a crutch." (announcer) talk to your doctor about chantix and a support plan that's right for you. some people have had changes in behavior, hostility, agitation, depressed mood and suicidal thoughts or actions while taking or after stopping chantix. if you notice agitation, hostility, depression or changes in behavior, thinking or mood that are not typical for you, or if you develop suicidal thoughts or actions, stop taking chantix and call your doctor right away. talk to your doctor about any history of depression or other mental health problems, which can get worse while taking chantix. some people can have allergic or serious skin reactions to chantix, some of which can be life threatening. if you notice swelling of face, mouth, throat or a rash stop taking chantix and see your doctor right away. tell your doctor which medicines you are taking as they may work differently when you quit smoking. chantix dosing may be different if you have kidney problems. the most common side effect is nausea. patients also reported trouble sleeping and vivid, unusual or strange dreams. until you know how chantix may affect you, use caution when driving or operating machinery.

chantix should not be taken with other quit smoking products. as a non-smoker it's wonderful. the best thing that ever happened. the best thing i have ever done besides my husband, and dogs, and family. with the chantix and with the support system, it worked. it worked for me. (announcer) talk to your doctor to find out if prescription chantix is right for you.

welcome back. a story that's getting a lot of buzz and anger. facebook has a poll that asks whether or not people thought president obama should be assassinat assassinated. this is actually on facebook. the question was not created by facebook, but by an independent user. facebook released a statement, saying they are working with the secret service, investigators say, quote, we take these things seriously. and several people apparently even responded to this poll, nora. so anyway facebook now coming out with an official statement. this has been getting a big buzz, ask a lot of people upset. it's time for today's face-off and the return of the vast right wing conspiracy. >> that's right. you heard him. former president clinton says the right wing that attacked him during his time in office is still around, and just as mean. here's what then first lady hillary clinton first said about

the vast right wing conspiracy in 1998. >> the great story here for anybody willing to find it and write about it and explain it is this vast right wing conspiracy that has been conspiring against my husband since the day he announced for president. >> and here's what the former president told david gregory on nbc's "meet the press" just yesterday. >> famously talked about the vast right wing conspiracy targeting you. is it still there? you bet. sure it is. it's not as strong as it was, because america has changed demographically, but it's as vir ral as it was. >> is the former president on target, or is it too easy to just blame a faceless conspiracy? here to face-off, our radio host bill press and political analyst joe watt kings watkins. joe, i'll start with you. are you part of this conspiracy?

>> he's the leader of it, nora! >> you lie! bill. >> you caught me. here i am. here i am. you know, i worked in the white house, and for -- an american president for george h.w. bush, and almost every single day, if not every day i went to the white house to work, there were people protesting some segment of the president's policies. even policies that i wasn't aware of. and it just comes with the territory. there are going to be people, no matter who you are, as president of the united states, who are going to criticize, who are not going to agree with your policies. and these policy disagreements right now are based on -- >> but joe, were there people who -- >> disagree with direction. >> who challenge whether -- either of the bush presidents were actually american citizens? legitimate people who could hold the office of the presidency? >> well, there are going to be people who -- whoever the president -- will challenge any host of issues, just depends what the issues in question are.

there are people obviously who questioned president obama's birth certificate. there are people who questioned president bush on a whole host of issues. president bush, both father bush and son bush, didn't take it personally. they realized that it came with the territory. that as the president of the united states, the buck stops with you, and that you just have to be prepared to deal with the criticism. >> bill, as we talk about a potential vast right wing conspiracy, just want to play for you what rush limbaugh had to say today about what bill clinton told david gregory. listen very carefully. >> okay. >> there are lots of people who are opening up their eyes that this is not what i voted for. so they can't force their weak ideas on us. what do they do? they blame it on the evil and vast right wing conspiracy. when the polling gets bad, and state-controlled media start to catch on to their lives in this stage, it's time to blame it all on the evil and vast right wing

conspiracy. >> bill, respond to that. >> well, first of all, i would say that as usual, rush limbaugh does not know what the hell he is talking about. look, what i hear people say, this is not what we voted for, nora. they're from the left, not from the right. there are people who say we didn't vote for another war in afghanistan, or we didn't vote for a health care reform that doesn't have a public plan option in it. here's the problem i think with what former president clinton says. he got one word wrong. vast. there used to be a vast right wing conspiracy. today i would say at best, it's a mini right wing conspiracy. it's not as vast, it's not as effective. president obama's problem is the vast left wing conspiracy, the democrats in congress, particularly, in the senate and in the house who are fighting his health care reform. he doesn't need the republican -- >> well said, bill. >> he doesn't need the republicans. he could have his bill on his desk right now if he could get the democrats to go along with him. so i don't think you can just blame it all on john boehner and

mitch mcconnell. they're the least effective leaders we've ever had in congress. >> but i want to talk about the messenger and the message. we often marvel at what a great politician bill clinton is, that he doesn't say a word without knowing that it will have flare back and flare up. what doing was the point, though, of him answering that question in that way? >> well, look, of course i -- i'm sorry. i think it was -- >> you can both answer it. bill, you start off. go ahead. >> all right. i was just going to say, it's always -- you're right. he is so careful. he knows every word that he says. but nora, it's always easy to blame, you know, the other side, rather than to blame your own democrats. i'm just trying to be honest here. i've watched this process, i've been part of this process for the last nine months. barack obama's fight has not been from the do nothing republicans, it's been from the democrats who i think some of them are democrats in name-only. >> and joe, what do you think? what's the motive here? >> well, i think the motive, of course, is to try to demonize

people who don't agree with the president. and you've seen the rally that was held just a few weeks ago in washington, d.c. and not only republicans were there, but there were independents and democrats, as well, people who were not pleased with the policies. they disagreed strongly with the president and the direction he may be taking on a whole host of policies, including health care, and bill has it right. if there is a vast right wing conspiracy, then there are a whole lot of democrats that are a part of it, because there are a lot of people right now, especially on the democrat side, who do not agree with president obama. >> all right. >> violensilence. >> whatever right wing conspiracy exists right now, it's not a real threat, i don't believe, to president obama. there are 85 votes down in the house. can't get anything done. >> bill press, you make a very interesting point. joe watkins, the leader of the conspiracy, good of you to join us and reveal yourself. thanks to both of you. tamron, i think we made some news here, you know? >> yeah. well, joe says the right wing conspiracy includes liberals.

who knew? >> bill makes a really good point, because i remember at the very beginning of this administration, speaking with rahm emanuel, the president's chief of staff, and he said i'm not worried about the republicans, i'm worried about the democratic party, keeping them in line. and that has proven to be true, certainly in this health care debate. up next, some things we thought you should know of many. >> the first family goes sight-seeing, and italy's prime minister has another case of foot in mouth disease when it comes to the complex of the obamas. and on "hardball" with chris matthews. test firing long-range missiles. will it prompt israel to attack? (announcer) the sinus triple threat. owwww.... (announcer) not just sinus headache... but pressure... and congestion. (announcer) you need a sinus medicine ooohhh... that rescues you from all three symptoms introducing new sudafed pe® triple action™. for more complete relief from the sinus triple threat. get more complete relief. with new sudafed pe® triple action™.

also find sudafed® behind the counter.

i no longer school days and school years are not popular ideas. not with malia and sasha. not in my family, and probably not in yours. but the challenges of the new century demand more time in the classroom. >> that was president obama earlier this year, talking about longer school days. i think this is a big story. >> i do too, nora. caught my eye, as well. the president is not the only one who supports limiting summer vacation tore school kids. we thought you should know the secretary of education is reiterating his stance on the idea. arnie duncan tells "associated press" that the u.s. kids need more school time, because other countries' kids are going to school 25% longer. he says the current school calendar is based upon a different system, and there are too many kids working, he feels, these days. and we need more daylight.

nora, i read an article that disputed the claim from arnie duncan and president obama, who named a couple other countries where kids spend less time in school, but do better in math and science. so there's information on both sides to dispute that. >> yeah. you know, i just got finished reading that latest book by malcolm gladwell, "the outliers," and he talks about kids who are disadvantaged and one of the ways you do it, get there at 7:00 in the morning, and leave at 5:00 at night, and these kids are creating and going to college at record numbers. so some proof, you stay in school longer, you dabble a bit. president obama, tour guide -- there's my rant for the day. he took his sister, mia, his wife on a tour of the capitol. the entire first family tagged along for the field trip. made stops at the usual tourist spots like the jefferson memorial and the washington

monument. and tamron, i read that full report, and i just say, that's one of the reasons you want to be president. you get to go look at the monuments late at night like that and get a private tour. this is a beautiful city here. >> it is a beautiful city, and nora, brought me back to the whole story we did about longer school hours. see, it's cool to be more hands-on like that. >> if you can see these monuments rather than reading about them and see the history. you have to go hand-in-hand. you can't just be stuck inside the school. need more money for education, so kids can get out and learn these things. that's my rant. tamron hall, the next secretary of education. >> no, the past is too sordid. . sylvia tesconye is calling president canned. he told supporters, quote, i must bring you greetings from a man whose name is -- whose name is -- wait, it was someone tan. barack obama. that was what he said. he used that same ternl to describe the first lady.

he was criticized after president obama won the election last year for saying, quote, he is young, he is beautiful, and he is tan. those are the things we thought you should know. and this is a man who is facing countless sex scandals. they've got tapes of prostitutes in his house. and he was -- >> yeah. need we say more. yeah, exactly. in the coming weeks, president obama has a big decision to make. this is a serious story. more troops to afghanistan. or is he going to begin to rethink the u.s. strategy there? there is a white house meeting on the subject tomorrow that could play an important role in his ultimate decision. let's get right to our next read on politics with the stories we'll be talking about headed into tomorrow. mark murray, deputy political director for political news, all hands on deck for this one, and all major figures who have a pivotal role in the decision the president will make. >> no doubt about it, tamron. and hi, nora. yes, tomorrow president obama huddles with his national security team in that meeting will