"morning meeting" with dylan ratigan. >> hammering health care reform, or maybe hammering on health care reform. public option and free choice. on the "morning meeting" we are exposing the lack of competition holding you hostage to crisis and bad service. >> is afghanistan turning into vietnam? more and more folks are starting to think so. we are talking to a medal of honor winner who almost lost his life in that war about the similarities. we are breaking down the stau ttisti statistics. and tom takes on the tango. did he nail the latin routine on "dancing with the stars." pull up a chair and join the "morning meeting."

good morning to you. in about an hour the senate finance committee getting back to work on the front. public option will be the biggie, and choice for all of us. it pits democrat against democrat and republican against republican, and chuck todd, white house correspondent and political director joins us for the food fight we are setting up for. what is going on? >> reporter: it's public option day. pure and simple in the senate finance committee. there will be two amendments of different versions of offering up a government run insurance plan. it's a political hot potato on the left and on the right. it's democrat verses democrat. let's take a listen to the tv ad running about it. >> i need open heart surgery and no insurance and no company will insure me. my wife and i $100,000 in

medical bills. none of the debt would have piled up if i would have had at option of buying into a public insurance plan? >> dylan, the third thing we don't know today about the debate about the public option, shuck schumer, he will have one version, and jay rockefeller will have another version. but will republican olympia snow, will she have her own amendment? will she offer up an amendment today on that? and we are trying to set up the dramatic moment, and as far as the political fight is for us, political geeks on the health care debate. that could be the most dramatic aspect of today, what will olympia snow do, and if she does, that tells you exactly where this -- how this thing gets to the finish line? >> thank you, chuck. as we watch the senators debate a public option that most of us would never be able to use, and it seems lawmakers in general

shying away from a bill that would subject health insurance companies to any truss laws. other than major league baseball, only health insurance has an exemption from the sherman antitrust laws. and bizarre, right? anyway it makes it impossible for us to break up the strangle hold on the health care system. and i read this today in "huffington post." the only business that has an exemption from sherman antitrust, and so far senate majority leader excludeing the proposal to close the gaping hole. i would argue without doing that you have not reformed health care. and right now one single health care controls most of the country. in 27 states the top two insurance companies control 50

to 75% of the overall market. in ten other states the top two companies corner more than 75%. and then this monopoly, along with a system that traps workers inside of an overly expensive miss aligned system of employer-based system. and instead of improving our health care systems by creating and enforcing free and fair markets, our politicians continue to engage in back room deals and instead of seeking answers to the problem for paying for and providing medicine to us, we are doing the exact opposite. taxpayer money continues to be played with by politicians who are desperately trying to protect the status quo. our guests weighing in.

fred weber, a long time washington lobbyists, and also with us msnbc contributor and washington post editorial jonathan capehart, and fred, i will begin with you. how is it that america that claims to be a free and open society has an antitrust exemption that would be the most critical type of insurance or care that is provided to us which is that of our well-being and prevention and that of what would prevent us from death, and yet we are busy playing money games and doctors and patients are left in the corner and we don't get an antitrust exemption? >> it's a good question. i applaud you for that editorial, dylan. that monopoly under the present plan the democrats laid out will

continue to exist. you will not have reform unless you correct that. keep in mind all along the strategy was to neutralize reform. and what about the trial lawyers? you know, you are not going to -- >> well, i will do that a different day, fred. i am on the trial lawyers, but i want to tackle one monster at a time. ezra, how can they propose a mandate where they force everybody to buy into a program where it doesn't have free and fair competition and it's a monopoly controlled system as the government forces us to buy into it? >> the part of the mandate that would happen, the people subject to the mandate would buy into the exchanges. and everybody will end up in the exchanges. and i mean, right now, one of

the big arguments is about choice. and there is one other piece of this, the cbo looked at the public plan, and the strong public plan that liberals wanted. and cbc says it will save the government alone, and not just the taxpayers or consumers, but the government alone, and people are saying we have to be careful about health care reform because it will cost too much money, it could be tricky. >> you have a lack of choice for consumers and an exemption from antitrust, jonathan capehart. we have politicians. we pay them and they are proclaiming they will reform health care, and yet the list that i just offered up seems to be completely protected? >> yeah, look, nobody ever said it was going to be easy or nobody ever said it was going to be something where all the vital

interests wouldn't do everything in their power to make sure their power was not eroded. i think fred made a good point when he said, look, this reform effort from the very beginning as been about neutralizing, you know, opposition from the doctors and the hops and the insurance companies. maybe, maybe -- i doubt it, but maybe what you are talking about will come up either during baucus' committee, or conference committee, and what you are talking about and proposing is a big nut to crack. i don't hold out much hope of antitrust exemption will go away? >> we shall see. i cannot imagine a voter in the country that would want to vote for a politician that would maintain any competitive protection for the health care insurance companies that are gouging them by shedding risks.

fred, thank you very much, and jonathan and ezra will stay with us a little while. you can read the op ed in the "huffington post," talking about why we as the press and a group of taxpayers and voters must demand they stop rigging the game. coming up in the next hour, senator ron wyden coming up. and then we will talk about catering to large corporations. any way, contessa has the rest of the day's news. and iran is refusing to talk about the plant. the u.s. leaders are crafting a strategy to increase international pressure on iran. if it doesn't come clean about

its activity. the u.s. is hoping to disrupt plans for iran. we will be joined by the former chief inspector to get his take on the way forward coming up in the next hour. and then coming up next, najibullah zazi is accused of trying to build a bomb and use it possibly against the new york city transit system. and there were three more men as suspected in the terror plot. and pete williams will join us next hour. a lawyer representing polanski is representing him.

and polanski's agent was interviewed on "today." >> roman travels throughout europe and throughout the world, and he is very open and transparent. he is a highly recognizable figure as well as a world class director. it's inconceivable to me that anybody would have trouble finding roman. you can just go on the internet. >> authorities have had up to 10 days to respond to the attorney's request for his release. and these are two of the four teenager charged with the death of a chicago student. and the video shows a mob attacking the teen. police are looking for three more suspects, but they would not discuss a possible motive for the attack. breaking news right now, a closely watched index of home prices shows a year over year improvement here. we are showing the standard and

poors just released. it shows prices rose from june, although home prices are 13.3% below july a year ago. and in a larger perspective, we are off 33% from the peak in mid-2006. much more ahead here on the "morning meeting." after the break, is after began stan turn into vietnam? what is the mission there? are we suffering from mission crete. and then we will talk with medal of honor winner about the similarities about the similarities and differences between the two wars, and how we can make sure we don't suffer where we lose thousands of lives and billions of dollars. we are back after this. [ birds squawking ]

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welcome back. later in the morning, the president sitting down with the nato secretary to discussion the way forward in of a fafghanista the president's big strategy session has been pushed off until tomorrow. right now i want to go to nbc's chief foreign correspondent, richard engel, who is in afghanistan. hi, richard. >> reporter: good morning. the u.s. is very much at a crossroads. this is the biggest decision on afghanistan and the biggest foreign policy decision the obama administration will have to make or has had to make so far. i just came back with a briefing from a senior military xlander, and he said either the strategy

changes here which involves sending in more troops or the united states has to face failing in afghanistan. either the war here has to radically be reorganized, or accept failure. >> with us on the set here, jack jacobs. richard and others lay it out as failure as the option if you do not escalate for the troops. my question for you is what is the mission? what is the mission in afghanistan, not winning or losing, but relative to u.s. interests going back to the reason we went in? >> i think the president is asking the same question, and so is gates, secretary defense gate and mccrystal. you can't commit anything, any resource until you first articulate what it is you are trying to do. until you do that, you are going to wind up throwing resources at a problem you had not even

articulated. that's the problem that the administration has. >> i want to go over some of the similarities between the current state of the war in afghanistan and the war in iran. a lack of defining goal or clear progress. this mission creep or mission retrenchment. are we suffering where we will find the soldiers something to do, or what? >> i think mcchrystal knows what he wants to do with the soldiers. don't forget the campaign where the president said we will stop fooling around in iraq, and send troops to afghanistan. win has not been defined. as a result, no retreatment. we will not send all the troops to control all of afghanistan, and we are not going to get

small. we are playing small ball now and doing things locally. that will still require more troops than the president is willing to commit. >> and coauthor of fixing failed states, claire, walk us through your reporting and those you talked to, if you will, that speak to standing a standing army to fight a referring grill yeah forces. >> it's general mcchrystal's report that recognizes the primary purpose of the mission is to protect the population until the afghan forces are able to stabilize the country. more broadly, the basic ultimately for an exit strategy

is where afghanistan can govern itself as a sovereign country. it must be able to govern its territory. >> to that end, claire, what is the threshold for nation willeding when the expenditure and duration and lives at risk and or lost is unqualifiable? >> i think we are not talking about nation building. the conditions for success, for stability in afghanistan are going to be when afghans can govern their own country. >> that's fine. but when you are talking about u.s. taxpayer dollars and more importantly, u.s. children's lives, the concept of the afghans needing to take responsibility is wonderful rhetoric, but the reality is that's not what is going in congress right now? >> afghanistan is neither a

country now or will not be in a country in a reasonable amount of time, it's erroneous. afghan is not a country the way iraq is a country. we have already been there for eight years. i think it comes down to a question of whether or not the congress who writes the bill -- >> writes the check on our behalf. >> or the people that elect the people to congress after eight years is willing to double down. my guess is the election year, they are not. >> my argument would be if it's clear to those writing the check and risking their lives, what they are doing is protecting america from the deployment of things against our interests, you would have more political will to do it. that flesh hold seems to have been lost. >> yeah, it's appears to be a reasonable argument. i do believe it appears to be true in this case. and after eight years of flopping around and being diverted by iraq, i do not think the american public would

believe it, even if you put it in your face. >> claire, thank you very much. that goes to the corruption in the government. and whether it's the banks or health care or the rest of it, we lose our credibility with the most important issue, which is the lives of our children. very disturbing. straight ahead. plugging into a new arizona that may have gun lovers up in arms. and then rock bottom on "dancing with the stars." play by play coming up with our reside resident toure. th a really bad . really bad. then we learned that a flu shot can reduce the risk of getting the flu by up to 70%. we got our flu shots at cvs pharmacy. best thing we ever did. yes, indeed. [ laughs ] come in to get a flu shot today and get a $100 coupon book just for stopping by. go to cvs.com to find a flu shot location near you.

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a new gun law going into effect in arizona today. contessa is surfing and scanning. >> while you are freeing the hostages, i am looking at the good stuff. >> arizona restaurants are now getting ready for gun toting

patrons. starting today, people that legally carry concealed weapons are free to take them to the restaurants and bars that serve alcohol. >> why wouldn't they be? >> well, a law that says you can do that now. you can't drink though. >> this is just a way for bars to look cool to get a sign that says no weapons allowed. >> maybe if you won that ak-47 at the bar, you could take it to the bar to celebrate. what else? >> a one-woman crusader against bank of america. she was furious they were ranking her rates, and she got national attention, and b of a contacted her ready to hear her

argument. >> because you guys are getting your money from the fed at 0% interest, or at the most, $2.25, that 12.95% is more than a generous profit for you guys. he did finally agree to that. >> and so the california woman got what she wanted, the rate she initially signed up for. good news, b of a -- >> stop for one second. think about the genius of the fact that she fought the machine, and she was in the front page of the "huffington post," and makes a argument about the fact of what we did was at the end she got what she signed up for? what kind of victory is that in the bait and switch society that we live in.

>> hey, preaching to the choir here. and simulating training a and -- here is a guy that made a textbook landing on the hudson river. his skill and quick thinking saved all the people on the plane, and yet he had to go through the training to be eligible for flying again. he did it because he said he was eager to get back in the cockpit. does not make sense? >> we have outdated systems in the country that don't work. speaking of independence, they are looking to update the outdated government systems. is this a threat to the democrats in power as they refuse to update the system that they now control? is there gaining traction a growing discontent with the left

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call or click today. and make this time, your 'sprogressive. welcome back to the "morning meeting." time to reset the agenda. and iran has no intention of going away from the nuclear program. and we will talk with the former chief weapons inspector on the subject. and the senate finance committee taking up the public option.

we will speak to senator wyden whose plan could come up with a vote later today. we will speak with a special interest want to go kill senator wyden's proposal. and then a.c.o.r.n. ties to the white house. and then coming up, who is behind the conspiracies, and do they have impact on public policy? if they do, we should know about it. deadlines. does obama have a problem keeping them or is it something the public likes to talk about? and then the home index showing some signs of housing stability, further evidence the bailout last year had been beneficial to the underlying economy in the short term, and at the same time allowed the bankers to perpetuate the largest theft and cover-up in the world. and i will be more worried about independent opponents than

republican opponents. >> new jersey voters will head to the polls to pick between corzine, and gop challenger, and a appeared nunt, chris dagget. he could get enough democratic votes from corzine to cost him the race. but then the challenge posed by independents becomes a nationwide issue in 2010. next year the governorships in 39 states go up for election. no incumbent running. and then there are already independent candidates in the mix that could tip the election or flat out win. and the independent candidacy of lincoln chasy, and in

massachusetts, state treasurer tim kay hill, and third party bids in maine, and vermont, all states that have a history of going for independents. and congressional lawmakers will have their hands full as well. independent candidates are on the ballot in 13 states. while you wonder if they can win, consider this. a recent nbc news wall street jurnal poll says this. now, have you seen this type of phenomenon before, and what happened? >> my guess is that in this election, you might have one independent-elected governor, senator or house member in the

entire country. this is a vastly over played and over hyped story. it's perfectly natural when you had three or four years of people disappointed in or angry at republicans and now six or eight months of voters disappointed and or angry at democrats for them to say that they are going to support independent candidates. and the thing is we know as elections gets closer, the number of people that are for independent candidates goes down, because very few voters want to throw votes away to somebody that has no chance of winning. and we always chase this rabbit, and the rabbit is not there. and chafee in his case, he is the de facto candidate. >> well, you don't have to look further than what it's the tea party rallies, or the explosion and the anger we see because of the diminished creditability of the government and the way they handle the blanks, and the way

they are handling health insurance, and the health insurance companies that control 80% of the markets, and that's preposterous, and the outdated systems in the government, and does that force the incumbents to flip their script, if you will? >> well, they are as much as a threat to republicans as democrats. >> i know that. >> a race involving an incumbent. and to the extent you split the anti-incumbent up two or three or four ways. corzine is not hurt by this guy in the race. >> the temperature in washington, as they watch from both sides of the frustration levels rising in the country. >> well, they are focused and

hearing from constituents all the time, and senator wyden has come on and other senators have said hey call us and tell us how you feel because that's the only way you can can beat back the special interest that you and everybody rails against and that seems to be getting in the way of the country getting anything done. let's say, mr. cook, we have to listen to mr. cook, because he is the man with the magic 8 ball and almost always is right. let's say the rabbit does exist, and in thdependents do find the way on capitol hill. and we need to understand how they would behave once they are on the hill. we can't just look at the independent. we have to look at where they came from before they were an

independent to understand how they would vote. >> and what is the recipe for an independent candidacy that is not a distraction? >> one thing about ross perot, he was somebody with stature and a lot of money before he got into politics, and that gave him a taller platform. when you look around for the various candidates running for various offices, with very few exception, they are not people with a lot of appeal. look at the guy running for the massachusetts state legislature. >> ezra, i am sorry i did not

get to you. we will make it up to you shortly. contessa has the balance of the day's news. we are looking at a second u.s. soldier killed by a land mine in the southern philippines. and the americans have been providing training and weapons to filipino troops fighting militants there. it's no vacation for 900 texas students in one school district out sick with flu-like districts. they closed until thursday because of the illnesses. no word on how many actually had the h1n1 swine flu virus. and 10% of the teachers also out sick. for the first time, the district closed because of sickness. an aggravated bus driver in arizona gets so fed up with his rowdy students on a hot day, he gives them an ultimatum. >> you need to be quiet.

that's right. he turns off the air-conditioning for three minutes. on a 108-degree day. the school district disciplined the driver and put him on another route. but they did not fire him. four teenagers in the chicago area have been charged with the murder of a student. cell phone pictures caught it on tape, the beating. let's go to kevin tibbles following this story. tell me about the teenagers in custody? >> well, first off, it was a brutal attack. it looks like the victim was an innocent bystander, accept for the fact that we are now hearing that gang members were trying to recruit him to join a gang. he was an honor student and refused to join the gang. the whole sort of activity started off with 10 kids and a fight involving this young man that was eventually beaten to death as a result.

it then grew into a much larger mob scene with two sides going at it. police are saying many of these kids are from the same neighborhood, and with some 50 kids having a large brawl on the street, and unfortunately this one boy, as a result of what appears to be not only kicks and punches, but also beaten with a large, perhaps two by four, and he eventually succumbed to his injuries after his friends managed to pull him away from the scene. interestingly enough, police are saying the mob did not start to break up until they actually tasered at least one kid in the middle of it all. >> wow! i know police are looking now for three other suspects. they are not talking -- the police are not talking about a motive for this particular fight and this particular beating of albert. what is this doing to the community at finger high school? >> well, obviously there is a lot of outrage. 200 people held a vigil at this

spot where this young man unfortunately lost his life. a number of people today are starting to point fingers, as what happens in cases like this. and some are saying it's about time parents take control of their children. it's a morality issue. as we often hear, parents are now starting to be blamed because they perhaps don't know where their children are and don't know what their children are doing. it should be pointed out, or at least asked what sort of activities exist in communities like this for children, and what goes on after school, and where these kids are going. we have done a story down in the neighborhood of one program where young children are hired to essentially renovate their schools, which are often in poor states of condition, and get the kids off the street. i think that's probably one of the questions that is going to be asked in chicago. now, what sort of opportunities

are there in this neighborhood for kids to keep them off of the streets and perhaps keep them out of this sort of trouble. very, very sad story. >> apparently the tensions within the high school now are heightened because of albert's death and the constricting sides going at it anyway? >> i can only imagine. it's a wake up call for our country. all the points were just made are the right points. i won't reiterate them. a lot more coming up here on the "morning meeting." and deadlines is what we are talking about. from afghanistan to health care, you name it. is it a trend or just a talker? the sixties were all about freedom.

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we take the stories folks are talking about and trying to figure out whether it's a way to pass the time or evidence of a larger trend that is worthy of analysis. sounding off today, the dream team, jonathan capehart, and ezra. you will be smarter and happier if you read their articles. now, the problem with deadlines. since his first day in office the president has been clear on what his intentions are when it comes to guantanamo bay? >> guantanamo bay will be closed no later than one from now. >> robert gates concedes that will not happen. >> and the white house is telling me at least some prisoners will be in guantanamo on january 22nd and beyond.

>> they are not focusing on the actual day but making progress toward the end goal. jonathan are they backing themselves into a corner? >> deadlines are brick walls of reality, and they hit this one big time. >> and another self imposed deadline by the president and the democrats in charge, and remember we told health care reform would be wrapped up by august? >> for both the house and the senate to finish their critical work on health care reform to be finish by the august recess. >> here is the picture of the room where moments from now the senate finance committee will resume debating reform and will discuss the public option. congress blew the august deadline and it stands to reason the obama administration might be shy when setting another deadline, right? >> health care will be passed

before the they go home for thanks gaving. the legislative process is where both bodies get to the truth. >> ezra? >> when it comes to administration, that's the father of congress. the father doesn't have a whole lot of say when we get a due date here. >> clearly. as long as they deliver a healthy baby, everybody will be happy. when it comes to afghanistan, maybe the other missed deadlines are giving the president pause. mccrystal are wanting more troops, and liberals are wanting an exit strategy. and taxpayers would like to know what we are paying for and what the objective is, and how it protects us from biological weapons being deployed in our country. and robert gates saying setting a deadline is a mistake. this is robert gibbs yesterday? >> this will be a deliberate process on the president's part.

i assume any decision is a number of weeks away. >> again, i have to wonder, ezra, after a few of the deadlines, whether they are going to give up the deadline practice and go to the business of actually trying to solve problems? >> i doubt it. when you are talking about afghanistan, we are talking 20 years. we don't worry about months or weeks in that context. >> thank you for the hopeful commentary, ezra. >> no problem. we are heading to the break room. coming up, the latest edition of dancing with delay. can tom tango? up next. you've worked all your life.

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toure, what is up? >> delay continued to torture america's eyeballs last night that cannot be honestly called dancing. >> i think people are delighting in this. >> i don't know. i don't know. >> the grand tie. >> oh, god. anybody can wear a green tie. look at the end. he stumbles so badly! i thought he was going to fall on his butt. >> that's good for ratings. >> and say i've fallen and i can't get up! >> like a clapper he needs. >> he is coming around and nice and stiff and awkward. this is not really dancing. this is just moving as music is playing. >> this is just being attached to a lovely lady dragging you around the room on television. >> here we go. coming to an end. oh! what was that, tommy? >> that's not nice. moving along. >> hold it. there's a beautiful shot coming up that we have to show the

people. because carrie ann said she knew what the problem was and tom bergeron said, no, i think you are wrong, ma'am. roll this. >> you got to squeeze them together, sir! whew! sure. >> i don't think historically that's been his problem. >> that's how you know tom bergeron is a democrat because he just called the republican a tight ass, okay? >> i understand. i understand. conan hit his head. what is going on here? >> yeah. he was running in the studio doing a thing with teri hatcher. fell and banged his noggin on the ground! that's teri hatcher territory doing three stooges stuff. he is hurt here and going to the hospital friday night after this happened. just one of the falls to having an oversized melon which you know about. >> and even all of that hair. all right.

michael jackson, we've got a movie. we've got news and we've got tickets. what is going on? >> everybody who says they are all jacksonned-out, simmer down! millions of people are not jacksonned out at all. tickets went on sale over the weekend and sales are brisk. i got mine. hundreds of shows in america are sold out. in japan they sold a million u.s. dollars in tickets in one day. i'm going day one at 10:01 in brooklyn if you want to join me. when are you going? >> after the hostages are freed. once we free the hostages, i'm going to the movie. thank you very much. ahead, iran just how defiant it can be but how big of a nuclear threat is it really? do we have a factual assessment or still distorting and the rest of it? we'll tackle that issue nokes with former u.n. weapons administrator after this.

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good morning. 10:00 a.m. in the east and 7:00 a.m. out west. the u.s. threatening new sanctions against iran ahead of a key meeting on thursday with that country's top nuclear negotiator and iran said to remain defiant. what is the right way to frame our conversation around how the u.s. and the rest of the world is relating to this country on this issue? right now, laurks getting back to work on health care reform this week. it's liberal democrats versus moderate democrats over the public option and free choice. coming up, senator wyden who is propopg a free amendment and representative of the lobbying group who is aggressively against it. why can we not free americans to choose their own health care? it's madness. afghan immigrant accused of plotting a terror threat in the

u.s. due in court for arraignment but were there others involved in the alleged plot? americans love a good conspiracy. from a.c.o.r.n's alleged ties to the white house and dan brown's new novel suggesting free masons are running our country in the back halls of congress. we can go on day with conspiracy and talk about them coming up. it's 10:00 a.m. pull up a chair and join the "morning meeting." iran saying it won't stop nuclear activities even for a second despite international pressure to come clean on its nuclear program. officials in tehran are not even going to discuss it and jim miklaszewski is live for us at the pentagon with the latest going into this conversation. jim, where are we? >> well, dylan, if you talk to the iranians we are no place. they are as defiant as ever about pursuing their nuclear

program whether it's peaceful use of energy or nuclear weapons. they are not willing to discuss it at this meeting on thursday in geneva. even though president obama has demanded immediate and unfettered access to this new facility, this new uranium enrichment city in northern iraq, iranians say not so fast. they say even if they allow the iaea into the -- into inspect the facility, they say there's certain protocols and that is going to take some time. but this morning, on msnbc, the former scket madeleine albright said, look, it's a good thing. at least they're talking. >> what i think has been good is he also made clear that we have to talk to them. i think what has been missing in the past is that we were not talking to iran and i can assure you that talking is not necessarily nice. i had a few conversations that were pretty tough. so you have to talk in order to

deliver a message. >> and there are even some early signals out of the obama administration that they don't think they will be able to get tougher sanctions out of the u.n. because now the talk is, well, perhaps what we should do is get stiffer enforcement of the sanctions already in place. so it looks like that early rush to put pressure on iran isn't working quite yet. >> to our panel we go. glenn greenwald author of two "the new york times" best sellers. glenn has been asking some great questions that i think we, in the media, ought beizing. you can see he is joining us from brazil on skype. also with us on the set is arianna huffington of the huffington post and a long list of other grand accomplishments and fresh back from israel. nice to see you. glenn, i will begin with you. what can we do better in asking questions about the iran

conversation and their nuclear resources that we did not necessarily do with iraq or afghanistan? >> well, i think the principal obligation should be to demand there is actual evidence before believing the claims that are being made about iran. for example, the president began by saying that iran is violating the rules which all nations are required to abide by and that seems to be actually false. the only obligation that iran has under the nuclear proliferation treaty is to disclose any facilities at least 180 days before nuclear materiel is introduced and they did that well in advance of 180 days and did it at least a year or a year and a half before that facility is operable. at the same time, america's key ally in that region, israel, refuses to belong to the nuclear nonproliferation treaty and refuses to have a nuclear stockpile srped by the iaea. there are nations beginning with israel that refuse to imply with these rules. i think the level of hysteria

being generated about what is a facility is not an operation and has no nuclear material in it can be designed strictly for civilian purposes and iran disclosed to the iaea required more media scrutiny and skepticism toward the claims against iran. >> arianna, how do you balance your coverage so that you're representing the apparent threat and, at the same time, not inciting either fear or irrational responses because all these types of conversations can inherently be so scary. >> it's very important to stress that actually the national community is more united at the moment than the president decision on the defense missile shield which was very popular in russia so russia is a key partner here in having a policy towards iran that is accepted by the whole international community. that's very different from what

happened with iraq. the other thing that makes this a little different from what glenn was saying is the fact that iran is actually challenging the existential presence of israel, meaning they don't believe israel has the right to exist, they don't accept the reality of the holocaust. you have a player here that is actually presenting a major threat to israel which immensely complicates the international response. >> jim, are you still with me? no. glenn, arianna makes a couple of key points. most noticely that all of the last one, iran's fail to acknowledge the existence of israel and their explicit desire to bomb israel. >> responsible people judge things by actions and not by rhetoric. there are all kinds of rhetoric rish issuing from, for example, the united states. john mccain stood up in the middle of the presidential campaign and sang songs about

bomb, bomb, bombing iran. if you look at the reality of the actions of various countries what you see is the united states currently is occupying two nations on either side of the iranians on their eastern and western border in afghanistan and in iraq, because those are the countries we invieded and bombed and are now occupying. over the last five years, the israelis have bombed lebanon and syria and slaughtered huge numbers of civilians in the gaza strip. by contrast, which is the last time that iran invaded any other country? you have to go back several centuries. the last several years attacking iran militarily. if you want to look who the threats are in the region and who the aggressors are i think a hard case to make that iran is a unique threat because of crazy rhetoric that its president engages in and not -- never possibly carrying out.

i think that's what needs to be the focal point is what is the reality of these countries' capabilities and what are their actions. >> a crackpot saying something is different than somebody doing something. >> just quickly, i think he is more than a crackpot, ahmadinejad is incredibly impressive and incredibly rational. is there no way we know what they are going to do next. i think the steps to be taken to have facts as opposed to rhetoric is a very legitimate way to proceed. >> jonathan, do you have a question? >> i had a question for the other guest. >> glenn? >> glenn. sorry, glenn. that -- so you're justifying iran's actions in terms of possibly pursuing a nuclear program for whatever purposes and, also, i find it a little ironic, you're saying that it has never showed any kind of aggression, yet, on dylan's tabletop, as you were saying

that, he was showing video of iran shooting off those missiles just this past weekend. so how do those two matchup? i don't understand. >> well, if testing missiles is the sign of an aggressive regime, then the united states and israel ought to be brought before the u.n. and be charged with all sorts of crimes because nobody tests missiles more frequently or more aggressively than those two countries. testing missiles is something that virtually every nation with the military does and what iran is saying with testing of those missiles is if you're going to continuously threaten us and threaten military action and you can pick up any newspaper or listen to you on television suggesting iran is this evil force -- >> hang on, glenn. no one on television that suggested iran is an evil force! >> that was just a question that was asked, the premise was how can you possibly defend iran for doing things that the united states and virtually every other power does. >> didn't say they were an evil force. >> stockpile of nuclear weapons. >> your points are valid.

i don't want you to be suggesting things are being said here that weren't said. glenn, great to have the conversation. jonathan, stick around. arianna, you're joining us for the hour. thank you for that. we will take a little bit of a break to get the rest of the news in here with contessa. terror suspect zazi is scheduled to be arraigned in a brooklyn courtroom in less than an hour. pete williams, what are you expecting to see in court? >> we will certainly here hear a plea from him. he will have the same two lawyers who represented him in colorado who have gone to new york for this hearing. he always said before he was arrested that he was no terrorist but then he was arrested and we haven't heard from him. he was brought to new york, to brooklyn, in fact, under very heavy security late friday and he has been waiting for this hearing. it will be his first court appearance on these terror charges in new york where these cases are now consolidated. in the meantime, investigators are looking at others who may have helped him and could be

preparing charges against them soon as well. >> pete, thank you. that's it for now, dylan. >> much more ahead here this morning. the senate finance committee back to work on capitol hill. the public option not to mention free choice in the liberation of all of us to an updated modern health care system that actually lets us choose how we relate to our doctors. senator ron wyden joining the conversation in favor of freedom and choice after the break. how do you stop tacos falling over? what if it had a flat bottom? old el paso stand 'n stuff. true genius. mexican style. new carefree ultra protection liners, with wings! absorb ten times more, like a pad but feel thin and comfy, like a liner. new carefree® ultra protection™

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as we sit here in the studio having conversations across fiberoptic lines, our senate in this country, finance committee back at work on health care and today it is largely about the public option. chuck todd, nbc news chief white

house correspondent joins us live with the setup on the voting today. >> all eyes are really on one senator when it comes to public option a. max baucus is chairman of the finance committee. in his initial bill, it did not have a public option, a government-run insurance program designed to compete against the private insurance companies. you're going to have chuck schumer a democrat from new york and jay rockefeller a democrat from west virginia offering different versions of a public option. the real drama today is going to be surrounding republican senator olympia snowe. earlier this year, she had proposed the idea of a trigger then for a public option. the schumer and rockefeller bids are different versions of how strong the public option could be and different ways of doing it. but it largely would get to the same -- have the same goals. what snowe is talking about is this idea, she says she personally is not for a public option, but she would like to

see a trigger and potentially keep the threat of the government getting into the insurance game out there, because there are a lot of folks who watch this health care debate who are intimately involved and believe if you have a metaphorical gun to the insurance industry it's a way to keep costs down. that could be how the trigger is designed. will olympia snowe offer that up? we'll see. >> that or break up the monopoly and stop giving any trust exemption which is beyond me why we give a monopoly to health insurance companies. ron wyden is with us. james klein president of the american benefits council and against wyden's free choice amendment. bear in mind choice is you would be able to leave the employer-based program if you so desire. also with us is jonathan capehart of "the washington post" and arianna huffington,

chief of the huffington post. senator wyden, where do you stand politically with you efforts to get liberation and choice for americans to try to get health care for themselves? >> i think we're making some real headway. what you got to say is if somebody doesn't like their health care plan, if they are entrapped, they don't like it, they still shouldn't have a choice. i don't think that's right. what we are doing with our proposal is importing the principal of choice into the employer-based system and strengthening the hands of the workers and imploirs and i think making headway. >> mr. klein, you wrote a letter to some members of the senate finance committee asking them and urging them to vote against the wide -- wyden choice amendment. why? >> people are free to opt out of their employer plan but to compel the employer to make the same contribution on behalf of those people is terribly unfair to the employees left behind in

the employer plan. >> let's stop there. i think you make a critical point we should explore. senator wyden, the concern a subsidy provided to corporations so that they can provide health care to their employees. the argument is anybody can choose but they don't get the subsidy. how do you deal with making that subsidy transferable to those who would want to leave the employer-based plan? >> first of all, we protect all of the employer tax breaks for whatever they are doing for their worker in the health care area. that's very important. the employer is not losing any of their tax preferences. what we're saying -- and mr. klein, of course, representing an organization, he gets paid to represent them. he represents them well. is that giving choice will be good for the system as a whole. the congressional budget office, in fact, in their independent, they are not paid by any lobbyists, found that our proposal would provide choice but wouldn't in any way sde destabilize the employer-based

system. >> dylan, this has nothing whatsoever to do with choice. it does have everything to do with destabilizing the employer-based system because the cost will go up for the employees who are left behind. employers rely upon group purchasing. >> that's wale not true, because if you look at the way exchange structure is set up right now, we can pull the risk inside of exchanges as in every other exchange that i covered for 15 years first at bloomberg and then at cnbc. to suggest that fair and symmetrical risk adjustment for the shedding of risk from the employer-based system can't be mathematically accounted for is not true. >> no. the excommanding is pooling but i'm talking about the employees left behind those who don't opt out and those who are older and sicker and not getting a great -- >> senator in go ahead. >> good employers, of course, have nothing to worry about that. all we're saying if your plan is

not offering good coverage, and we give the employer the option right at the get-go to take care of this. if the employer offers choice, fountain employer offers a low cost plan that's the end of it. we just don't think if a worker is being abused that it's right to force them to stay with what they have. i think mr. klein's group is essentially saying they don't want to give an inch. they want to be able to go to the exchange and they want more opportunities to hold down costs but they don't want to give their workers a choice. principle of choice within the employer-based system makes sense. >> why is there so much resistance? >> there is so much resistance because the health insurance is a well-funded group with smart lobbyists, as we're seeing right now. and the framing, wyden has brought forward is so impeccable. you know, presenting it is about choice and competition which are essential elements of the american political system and

how can you be against that? we know no way we will be able to contain costs without bringing an element of choice and competition into the system. so i'm very grateful to senator wyden for taking the leadership on this because, otherwise, really, there is no point in having so-called reform that will actually reform nothing and, in fact, get the republicans to say, you see? another government reform effort that didn't work. >> mr. klein, are you in favor of perpetuating the monopoly for health insurance, the antitrust exemption? >> a lot of good reforms will be made. >> that's not my question. are you in favor of perpetuating the monopoly in this health insurance with -- >> that is a charged question. >> it's an honest question. don't dodge my question, with all due respect, sir. answer my question, please. >> i don't think is there a monopoly or should there be one. >> no. do we have the facts from

earlier? this is not a matter of opinion. there are states, 70%, to 90% of the health insurance available in this country and provided by one or two health insurance companies. only one other organization in this country, sir, has an exemption from the sherman antitrust act and that is major league baseball. it is beyond my comprehension why our politicians or any lobbyists, yourself included, would be in favor of perpetuating any trust exemption for health insurance? in this country which denies all taxpayers to have a choice and bring free full competition in the true american spirit forward. >> if you want moo to answer the question -- >> i gave you a couple of chances and all you did was play cable dodgeball. would you like to try again? >> yes, i would. >> are you in favor of protecting our monopoly that helps protect our insurance companies in this country, sir? >> i don't believe with the premise you laid out. i do believe -- >> this is not -- it's a simple

question! no, no. sorry to intercept you and i know people get mad when i interrupt. we have a piece of legislation in this country. it is called the sherman antitrust act. the health insurance companies in this country are forced to comroom with that antitrust act. are you in favor of a piece of legislation that would force health insurance companies to imply with the sherman antitrust insurance act? >> i think we'll ask congress. >> you're a paid lobbyist. >> special interests providing coverage to 130 million americans. >> thank you very much. i think you're working for an outdated system that needs updating. >> no, no. we are all in favor of the changes. we are are all in favor of -- >> will you answer the question? your refusal to answer the question is duly noted. thank you very much. senator, thank you very much and arianna, thank you. plugging into politics next at the "morning meeting."

barack obama winning the presidency, thanks in part, to a massive grassroots effort and now a new poll shows sarah palin with a high grassroots rating level. the real date for her memoir is getting moved up. that's next here on msnbc. gecko vo: you see, it's not just telling people geico could save 'em hundreds on car insurance. it's actually doing it.

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favor of getting rid of the antitrust for the health insurance companies. >> you should ask her. >> i think i will. rural and small towns like her and hold her in high esteem and gop leaders saying maybe she doesn't have a shot at the presidency now that she ditched out of the governor's office. that seemed to not bode well for a future presidential run but they would like her to come and headline their fund-raising campaign. >> bill clinton has this new book out all based on the tapes that he kept in his sock drawer during the presidency. these are secret interviews, a result of tyler branch's extraordinary access to clinton in more than 70 sessions here. one of the interesting stories everybody is talking about is this boris yeltsin session he went out drunk in washington, d.c. looking for a pizza. the secret service had to escort him back in. mr. president, what are you doing out in your underwear? >> that doesn't happen with most

world leaders? >> a lot of people are talking about this and candid interviews. how about this? it looks like there is a very stiff fight going on for the gop gubernatorial primary. meg whitman is running against steven poisoner and she is -- look what poisoner is saying about her. not president reagan or president george h.w. bush or mccain mnk in 2000. she didn't skip some votes as she claims. she skipped every one. >> california reporters are saying to her, did you just first register as a republican in 2007? she goes i'm really ashamed of my voting record. no, did you first just register as a republican in 2007? i wish i would have voted more. speaking of dodging questions, she dodged it and i don't think

anybody said your refusal to not answer the question is duly noted. >> we should duly note it now. thank you. noted. coming up, more of arianna and washington, d.c. conspiracy theories. about half of women over 50 will have a fracture related to osteoporosis in their lifetime.

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who doesn't like a good

conspiracy theory? contessa is here with new ones. >> i love a good conspiracy theory. a brand-new book out from dan brown. he writes about a conspiracy about free masons in washington. langdon goes on a quest. then of course, former president bill clinton told nbc's david gregory the infamous vast right wing conspiracy is back and he says it's as virulent as ever. a.c.o.r.n under fire for secret recorded videos on coaching members to set up brothels and evade taxes. now he is writing about the white house and its alleged connections to a.c.o.r.n. >> brian fawn is with us and we have the president's here in the studio, arianna huffington. i want to begin with you, brian.

we start with a.c.o.r.n which your attention is focused. what do you think the priorities should be for all of us, whether it's bloggers, people like myself hosting tv shows, arianna, or anybody else, when it comes to asking questions of the relationship and conspiracies that are speculated in our government? >> well, i don't think i would cash this in terms of a conspiracy theory. what we have according to reports from a committee in july is criminal organization operating across state lines. a.c.o.r.n has been involved in voter fraud and tax fraud and violations of the law prior to the recent sting videos. i think if senior people from a.c.o.r.n who hold positions in the white house like political director and chief of staffing that we need to know what they are doing. >> again, i won't get into an a.c.o.r.n debate one way or another. i do wonder when you see the corrupt or outdated nature of so

many of our government systems, financial systems that we have a monopoly in health care that i can't comprehend, why do you choose to devote your resources to this? not that it's not a valid concern but it strikes me as maybe number 20 or 30 on the list of priorities in terms of outdated systems and problems in our government when you look at the few trillion that came out of the taxpayer last year and a health care debate now that refuses to direct the elephant in the room which is the health care monopoly and health care based system. >> i don't see this as that. this is a criminal of a criminal organization. we see the congress has launched an investigation into interrogations by cia officers and we have a special prosecutor for that. even though that already been investigated and prosecuted. >> would you want a special prosecutor for the banks and special groups like a.c.o.r.n? >> what crimes are they committing? >> throbbing of america's money by, again, utilizing national capital as a speculative instrument to pay themselves hundreds of millions of dollars

and shedding all of the risk to the taxpayer while keeping the bonuses for themselves or perpetuating an anti-competitive monopoly and sherman antitrust which would be a crime. >> very specifically, we've had multiple groups funded by government, defrauding american taxpayers like halliburton that had to pay penalties for defrauding the american taxpayer in iraq. i never heard of your organization or anybody else associated with red state asking for an investigation into why we're now giving them more money. the first thing that has to stop, when a group has been shown to defraud the american taxpayer and they don't get any more money. would you like halliburton and other contractors that defraud the taxpayer to stop receiving any more government money? >> i think we are straying a bit afield. >> we are not. >> you mead the point giving money to defraud taxpayers whether it's a.c.o.r.n or ha

halliburton or health insurance company or a bank seems to be the correlation. >> or a labor union. anybody who defrauds the government of money should get investigated. should i think in proportions to any of the allegations, sure. >> let's have an alliance here about going after all of those people. going after, for example, what happened with bank of america, defrauding its shareholders and giving merrill lynch bonuses without letting their shareholders know. the s.e.c. is saying no wrongdoing just give us $33 million and it's all over. so much happening across the system. >> well, you know this -- >> it's not just a.c.o.r.n. >> you know they -- >> politically motivated. >> those who accuse people in the mainstream media to distract attention from a.c.o.r.n. >> i'm not doing that. i don't care about that. i invited you here not only to discuss a.c.o.r.n because i think it's important we cover a.c.o.r.n but also acknowledge the critical issue with

a.c.o.r.n is defrauding taxpayers, period, whether by way of legislative corruption or outright fraud, whether it's halliburton or a.c.o.r.n. i think arianna presents a powerful proposition instead of paying spitball fight and give a lefty righty issue to accumulate power why not form alliance? myself and i think others who would explicitly demand an updating of the system of our governments to get the transparency and up to this point lack of accountability whether at a.c.o.r.n, halliburton or health insurance or bans under way. are you up for that? >> that sounds good for me. i think sunlight is the best disinfectant. i think a.c.o.r.n in 12 different states of voter fraud the last few years. >> nobody is contesting that. i think it's unfortunate a few trillion of my money and my children's money was used in banks. i'll repeat myself all day. no one disputes the things that upset you. we're saying that upsets you is

a very narrow focus that could be to a wider scope. >> i think that's a good point and i would like to know for example why the white house has dragged its feet on letting financial stus pay back the t.a.r.p. money. why not use it for deficit or debt reduction? >> i would like to know why the white house doesn't acknowledge the taxpayer has trillions of dollars after the t.a.r.p. money is paid back that continues to subsidize our financial companies. we all have questions and we could go all day. i'm loaded with questions and i know you two do, too. i say we get together and ask questions together. thank you for your time, brian. i spoke for arianna also. we'll get together afterwards. in the meantime, here is contessa. right now on capitol hill the senate finance committee opened up a vote that could come

today or tomorrow. one of the key supporters is jay rockefeller of west virginia you're seeing him there live speaking. he is defending a government-run program. >> i know supporters of the status quo are saying that it's simply, again, a government takeover but let me set the record straight once and forever. this will be optional. nobody has to do this. the estimates are that only about 5% or less of the american people will leave their health care insurance that they now have and go into it. >> rockefeller is one of two amendments on the public option open for debate today and the other is senator chuck schumer's. we will bring you new developments as they happen. iran says it will not abandon nuclear activities even for a second and refusing to discuss its rights to a nuclear program. at thursday's summit in geneva. where does this leave the united states? scott ritter joins me now. do you think that some of this

argument over iran's nuclear facility is overplayed? >> absolutely. first of all, the nuclear facility has been declared by iran. there's no diversion of nuclear material. there's no operational activity taking place and it will be fully inspected by the iaea inspectors. so there is no nuclear weapons program revelation here. what we have is that the united states, backed by europe and other nations, has said that iran cannot have a nuclear enrichment program under any circumstances and iran's declaration of this new facility is being used by certain elements to say, see, they were doing something in secret, we can't trust them. it's not about iran's nuclear program. it's about the united states has deemed the iran form of islamic -- the incompatible with our goals and visions of what the middle east looks like. >> in the comment you wrote for "the guardian" you say that

president obama's announcement that iran is breaking rules that all nations must follow is technically and legally wrong, but, scott, what about the fact that this nuclear facility is on property of the iran revolutionary guard and the fact it's not capable of enriching the uranium needed for a peaceful nuclear power program? >> well, these are questions iran has to answer, not myself. the fact they are using, you know, military terrain to house this facility i think, it reflects the sensitivity that iran has on its nuclear program and necessity for its survival. don't forget israel and the united states both said the military option is on the table and, indeed, israel has made repeated threats to bomb iran and if iran believe a nuclear program is part of its interest -- >> do you think it's

counterproductive? >> facility -- pardon? >> do you think it's counterproductive? >> absolutely. look. this is a promise that is resolved by diplomacy, not by force of arms and it's ridiculous to keep talking about a military option on the table. let's talk about putting the diplomat option on the table and sit down with iran on thursday and come up with a meaningful compromise that allows iran to have its nuclear energy program, but to ensure that iran is operating in total conformity with the standards that president obama has said must be implemented to make the nuclear nonproliferation agreement work. >> arianna huffington is a guest of ours today. she has a question. >> scott, you were -- in the lead-up to the war in iraq about the -- surrounding weapons of mass destruction that turned out not to be there. what do you say the comparison of what is happening to this country and the lead justify of what is happening in iran now

and new relations with iran? >> if you listen to the rhetoric coming out of the office of the presidency, the state department, the department of defense, they've already made a forgone conclusion and calling it a threat to international peace and security but no one in the u.s. intelligence community concurs. they say there is no nuclear weapons program. the iaea keeps saying what nuclear weapons program? the bottom line is we have the totality of iran's nuclear material under safeguards and there has been no diversion and no evidence of a nuclear weapons program. iran declared this facility. we didn't discover it. they discovered it and it will be subject. a huge amount of correlation to the hype that led up to the iraq war and hype taking place today and if we don't bring it under control americans may wake up one morning in the not so distant future finding we're yet another war in the middle east. >> scott, it's dylan. you've been very effective at laying out what the reality is as opposed to what the fantasy or the fear may be or whatever

the politics may be. what is it we as journalists should be demanding from answers from our politicians as they present rhetoric, one. two, what is voters should expect from the u.s. as a matter of policy in dealing with iran? journalists to politicians and voters to politicians specific to this issue with iran. >> the key thing is demand facts. this has to be a fact-based analysis. what we're getting from the obama administration is the same thing we got from the bush administration. faith-based analysis. they believe iran is pursuing a nuclear weapons program, therefore, it is but no evidence to back this up. journalists should demand the hard facts and when you get into the facts you have to dig deeper. when they say iran is in violation of the nuclear nonproliferation treaty why don't we read that and understand what the obligations are before we buy into that and what voters need to do is to talk about what is in the national security interest of

the united states and is what is going on in iran worthy of the jive of american life? that is what we're talking about when we say military intravenous. the problem with iran is not that it threatens the united states. the problem with iran is we've created a threat that doesn't exist. this is a problem that must be resolved diplomatically and we must exhaust every diplomatic option before we talk about the military option and that is what voters should be demanding. not to give iran a free ride but to insist that we difficult diplomat a chance. if you listen to the rhetoric of the secretary of state she has already given up on iran before we even engage in the diplomatic activity on thursday. that's not the way to duct diplomacy. let's go in and it has to be given not a one-way street and at the end of that day, iran is not forthcoming, we determine that iran is a threat and then and only then do we talk about a military option but we are so far removed from iran being a threat worthy of military intervention it's ridiculous to talk about this at this time.

>> we appreciate your different perspective than much of the perspective shared in much of the case. >> we should have scott around the show this week as the story develops as often as scott would like to make himself available. he certainly has more experience and more credibility and more information than most anybody else that we talk to with perhaps the exception of jim miklaszewski and some of our military correspondents who have a different flow of information from the military correspondents. thank you, contessa. sorry for my moment there but that guy was fantastic. a picture of the justices of the united states supreme court sitting down for their new class photo including the newest justice sonia sotomayor and the first time we're seeing justice ruth bader ginsburg since in the hospital last week. there is the new class photo. i wanted to share that. >> thank you very much. after the break latest installment of the great america photos taken from the edge of space but it's not nasa's handywork.

it's a college kid with 150 bucks. that's pretty great. we're back after this. music plays when it comes to things you care about,

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welcome back. time for another installment of a segment that was first discussed in the context with you and dan rosen why i got a guitar hero and talk about all of the problems in this country and can we do this and that and terrible corruption but this is a great country. >> absolutely. great heroes and doing great things all across america every day. >> we have actually a version of that right now. you may not know this and i suspect they don't know this but i'll let you in on a little secret right now. i am a bit of a space junky. i love it. it's expensive and billions of dollars a year they want to move the shas shuttle from california to florida costs $8 billion and check out these news images

taken from the edge of space. beautiful pictures of our very planet earth and guess what they cost to take? a grand total of 150 dollars. a group of students from the massachusetts institute of technology mcgyvered up a technology that captured this of earth as it flew more than 90,000 feet into the atmosphere. it's a near space mission built from everyday stuff and here is the supply list. a cell phone stashed in a styrofoam beer cooler! you can't make it up. and i'm not making it up. to think if you can make a rocket from $150 and a styrofoam container in a cell phone we can update our outdated health care system and our outdated financial system. >> i love this whole trend. citizens in journalism and citizens in science and followed by activism and grassroots.

this will change the system. it's not going to come from the top down. >> you make a fantastic point and it may come from the bottom up and may join us from a rocket in space. joining us to talk about the project is oliver ya. what is the key part? can i do this this weekend? >> yeah. >> tell me how. >> just buy all of the equipment. we're planning to release like a guide for everyday users of sort of how we did it so you can follow our every step. >> give me a couple of the key aspects. i have a cell phone in my pocket more or less right now. i can get a balloon and a cooler. then what do i do? >> you just get a camera and some software on is tso you can take a picture every five seconds and just attach it to the balloon and send it up there. >> how do i get that bad boy up there? that seems to be the real trick. >> you need to buy a special balloon. it's not just like everyday party balloon. you need to get one that is like big enough to float the camera as well as the phone.

you need weather balloon and that costs like $20 and then you need helium from a local gas supply store or party store and then you can float your very own balloon up into near space. >> arianna? >> congratulations. i want to know how many times did you fail before you actually succeeded? >> well, that was actually our first time. >> that's amazing! >> we spent -- we spent about a week researching and preparing and deciding what components we were going to use and making sure that every single component would work in the upper atmosphere. >> oliver, i'm going to see if i can get on the phone with you when this tv show is over and try to launch one of these things this weekend and see how it goes for me, all right. ? >> sounds good. >> congratulations once again. we will be right back. by bet, definity color recapture. >> congratulations once again. we will be right back. of wrinke 50,000 voters. one brilliant winner.

welcome to progressive. how may i help you? i'm looking for a deal on car insurance. i think i might have a coupon in here. there's an easier way. we've got the "name your price" option. you do? follow me. you tell us how much you want to pay, and we'll build you a policy that fits your budget. and i still get great coverage? uh-huh. go ahead. you're the boss. i'm the boss of savings. more like the c.e.o. oh, oh. no glass ceiling. the freedom to name your price. now, that's progressive. call or click today. when it comes to italian sauce, some people prefer this jar. but more people prefer this sauce. winner of the blind taste test. . the sweet and savory taste of prego. it's in there.

that wraps up today's program. "msnbc live" picks up for you right now.

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