we're dealing with people on the other side who are utterly unscrupulous. these are foot dragging, knuckle dragging neanderthals, who know nothing but no. one way or another, we have to overcome it for the sake of the nation. >> oh, my. i'm so glad you're here, pat. welcome to "morning joe" at 6:00 on the east coast. i'm mika brzezinski. pat buchanan. and willie is coming. he's taking his time. oh, getting makeup done. don't worry. it's okay. we've got "the washington post's" jonathan capehart as well standing by and ready to go in washington. jonathan, good morning. >> good morning. >> a lot to talk about this morning with the congressman who made that -- well, it was the sound bite that congressman alan grayson made on the house floor that we showed yesterday with the sign, republicans want you to die. well, he's just not really

apologizing. >> he's not really into apologies. >> no. >> did you hear that one? >> i actually have a better one for you. coming up in this newscast. i actually think he might have made things worse. >> that phrase knuckle dragging neanderthals. that's what joe called me years and years ago, a knuckle dragging isolationist. >> joe scarborough? >> when he came on my show "crossfire" as a congressman. he said it in jest. >> we'll have to talk to him about that. he'll be back soon. we'll get to that. and we have grayson's latest house floor exhibition. >> do you think some of these guys, pat, are just trying to get known and get famous? he sees his moment and is seizing it. >> he saw what happened to joe wilson. initially he got up, now he's the hero of the tea party crowd. $2 million, stand up and fight,

joe. now to this guy, he's doing the thing on the other side with the democrats. appealing to the base, they call it. >> we'll talk about that. there's obviously the big meeting, somewhat of a make or break time pertaining to iran. six nations, including the united states, representatives meeting with representatives from iran today. we'll be talking with andrea mitchell about that among others. and tom brokaw will be joining us. we'll talk to him about that. and the president met with his national security team on the afghanistan issue. some serious decisions to be made on afghanistan that could change the course of direction for this country in terms of foreign policy for years to come. >> one of the key things, mika, as you take a look in the paper today, it looks like gates, secretary of defense, is moving not so much with the mcchrystal position as moving toward the biden position. he is not committed to the 45,000 troops. this, of course, is the biggest foreign policy decision of the obama administration to date and maybe ever. >> there we go. that and also coming up we're

going to have, of course, the new cover of "time" magazine with rick stengel. first let's get a quick look at today's top stories. officials say thousands of people may be trapped in the rubble today following a pair of indonesian earthquakes, the latest just this morning. the latest 6.8 magnitude quake struck 160 miles from yesterday's disaster, which killed 466 people. meanwhile, the earthquake triggered a tsunami in samoa and american samoa. the death toll now stands at 149. the u.s. government is now focusing relief efforts on thousands of american families struggling in the aftermath. it's being called the worst disaster on u.s. soil since hurricane katrina to give you a sense of the scale here. in other news this morning, there are signs of deepening divisions over u.s. strategy in afghanistan as president obama weighs advice from both his military and civilian advisers. nbc's savannah guthrie reports.

>> reporter: at a turning point in the war and his presidency, mr. obama summoned his secretaries and generals to the situation room of the white house. the second of five planned meetings to find a way forward in afghanistan. the top u.s. commander there says the eight-year-old war is at a decisive moment. in a 66-page assessment, general stanley mcchrystal calls for a change in approach, focusing on protecting the afghan population as the key to defeating insurgents, a surge that would require up to 44,000 more american troops. >> i would expect the public would ask some very tough questions. that's exactly what i'm doing. >> reporter: but the president has been openly skeptical of sending more troops, wary of deepening involvement with uncertain success. >> do the generals keep coming back to him asking for 60, 70, 80? i think he wants to know that answer before he agrees to the next increase.

>> i'm announcing a comprehensive new strategy for afghanistan and pakistan. >> reporter: the president unveiled an afghanistan strategy this spring, ordered 21,000 more troops to the region and installed a hand-picked commander, general stanley mcchrystal. but since then, afghan presidential elections were marred by fraud, and mr. obama faces dwindling support for the war. >> i think the bills are coming due. he's been very appropriate and tough-minded in his posture, but the country's moving away from the war, and his own party doesn't support him. he's got a tremendous dilemma to face. >> reporter: aides say all options are on the table, including a more narrow counterterrorism strategy, focuseded on attacking targets with unmanned drones. but defense secretary robert gates is skeptical of the notion of a light footprint. >> that if you just walk away, that the situation there won't deteriorate. i think this is unrealistic.

>> president obama will head to copenhagen this morning to make a personal appeal to the international olympic committee. he'll join the first lady, who along with oprah winfrey, is leading a bid to host the 2016 summer olympic games. although it's a quick trip, his critics say the president is taking his eye off the ball. >> i think it's a great idea to promote chicago, but he's the president of the united states. not the mayor of chicago. and the problems we have here at home affect all americans, and that's where his attention ought to be. >> okay. i think that's ridiculous. there are better criticisms for the democrats than that. pat, then capehart. >> he's going to fly tonight to copenhag copenhagen, get there in the morning. hey, you guys, we'd like to have it in chicago, and head directly home. i think health care will stay in the same condition it's in for the 24 hours. i think that's ridiculous. >> i think he can make a decision on a plane, jonathan capehart. >> quite frankly, him going out and trying to help his hometown,

i think most people will applaud that. >> this will blow over. >> mika, it's more than helping his hometown. it's helping the united states. we're talking about bringing the olympics to the united states, and the economic activity that that would bring to the country. but, yes, specifically to chicago and illinois and the midwest. why congressman boehner decided to hit the president on this is really beyond me. >> it's really silly. >> the president of brazil is over there. tokyo, the lead guy, prime minister of tokyo there. the king of spain is coming. i think he'd be in trouble if he didn't go. >> if he isn't wired, he's really putting himself out there, trying to battle on every level. as the battle over health care continues, so does the tough rhetoric in congress. we were talking about alan grayson yesterday with his sign. he had a little slide show for

the house floor about the republican health care plan. he basically says it's a plan that would allow americans to "die quickly." that was his next sign. as the republicans demanded an apology, grayson offered an apology, but it wasn't really an apology to the gop. take a listen. >> so the republicans asked me to apologize. well, i would like to apologize. i would like to apologize to the dead, and here's why. according to this study, health insurance and mortality in u.s. adults, which was published two weeks ago, 44,789 americans die every year because they have no health insurance. that is more than ten times the number of americans who have died in the war in iraq. it's more than ten times the number of americans who died in 9/11. i apologize to the dead and their families that we haven't voted sooner to end this holocaust in america. >> oh, dear.

>> insensitive, i would say. look, this is his moment of fame, and quite frankly, he's going to take it as far as he can. he's coming out -- one of our good friends, i've got your back, is right behind him. i think the militant wing of the democratic party, the progressives and the others, are going to say he's saying exactly the right thing. finally somebody's got the guts to speak up for us. he's better known today than he's ever been known. did you know about alan grayson the other day? >> never heard of him. >> yeah, he's the star. i want to know -- pat raised the issue of how much money joe wilson raised when he said "you lie," and i'd be curious to find out how much money congressman grayson has raised since his die quickly slide show the other day and how much money he's going to bring in since that clip is run. it's one thing to oppose the republicans on policy and ideas and philosophies and directions that you want to take the

country. it's another to, again, use hyperbolic language to not just make a point, but to put the spotlight on you for whatever other purposes. >> we talk about hyperbolic language, but i remember much criticism, even from members of my own family, for the bush white house in terms of language used towards foreign nations because you have to be so careful with the way you present yourself to the world and the type of language that could exacerbate hatred or a situation. it is just as important at home, especially now, to choose your language wisely and intelligently, and this is just not it. >> this fellow has clearly made a calculation that the hits -- >> what's the math here? >> the hits he gets from "morning joe" and the hits he gets from people on tv do not dilute exactly the benefit he's getting from coming out as the

hottest guy on the progressive side who's fighting for health care, who cares about it. >> put his picture up, chris, if you could. that's the hottest guy on the progressive side? talk to me, pat. help me out here. >> what have we been talking about for two days on health care? baucus? no, this fellow. >> the guy with the electric tie. >> i'm moving on with news, and i'm going to just process a little bit. general motors is marking the end of the road for its saturn division. saturn will be shut down after a deal to sell the auto line to penske group fell apart. hundreds of dealers and more than 10,000 jobs are now in jeopardy. that's a quick look at the news. let's check on the weather with meteorologist ginger zee from wmaq in chicago. ginger? >> good morning, mika and everybody. good morning to everyone out there. a very strong storm system brewing out to our west in chicago is in the path of that storm. very big lightning storm this

is. south of that area, severe weather is possible today. areas like eastern texas, but not here in the northeast. no, we're looking for just a few clouds, more than sun again today. much like yesterday. yeah, it's cool. temperatures right now in the upper 40s and low 50s. we'll see skies again. mix of sun and clouds. high today in new york and philly, 64. there's a look at that country. storms in the center. nice out east, at least for today. there's a look at your weather. we'll head back down to you guys. coming up next, an exclusive look at politico's top stories of the day, including why an obama education appointee is under fire from the right. how is it playing inside the beltway? also, nbc's tom brokaw and cnbc's maria bartiromo will be here. plus turning up the heat on iran. we'll ask former state department spokesman jamie rubin what we can expect from today's meeting of world powers in geneva. and the roman polanski

controversy heats up. we'll take a look at the divide between middle america and hollywood and hypocrisy. we're watching "morning joe" brewed by starbucks. ♪ kelly saunder's nature valley. ♪ the place that inspires her to go faster... ♪ and slower. ♪ elk mountains, colorado. where's yours? 100% natural nature valley granola bars. the taste nature intended.

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the first lady went on sesame street. it was a great segment. she was talking to kids about gardening and eating healthy. >> well, look who's here to push her husband's socialist health care agenda. >> oh, big bird. >> or maybe you're here to finally show us your husband's united states birth certificate. >> big bird, i'm not. >> that's because you can't. are you absolutely sure he wasn't born in kenya? >> i'm sure, big bird. >> that's not what the basket bunch says. >> yeah, your husband's a stinking liar. >> we're going to run him out of office.

>> i never knew big bird did that. i've met big bird. i know that's not true. >> sesame street is pushing that agenda again. here with us now, politico's morning playbook -- that's not here with us. mike allen is here with us, the chief political correspondent for politico. glad to have you with us. we're going to ask you to lay out a bubbling controversy for us regarding one of the obama administration's czars. the office of safe and drug free schools is headed by a man who has a little bit of a had is tri. tell us about it. >> he does. we've seen this movie before bp conservatives focus on a particular obama appointee, dig up issues about him. it bubbles out there online, on the air, and the administration issues a statement. finally, the mainstream media wakes up and is covering it. that's what's happening with this safe schools czar kevin

jennings. back in june i discovered conservatives were focused on the fact that in a book he had written several years ago about openly gay and lesbian teachers, he'd written about an incident back when he was 24 in 1988, a sophomore came to him, confessed a relationship with a man that had started in a bus station, and then continued elsewhere. the problem with this is, willie, he seemed to condone it. he said to the young man, i hope you had the good sense to use a condom. he didn't seem to recognize that, given this young man's age, this was an aassault and it should be reported. >> do we know for a fact that he said he didn't -- i guess he implicitly condoned it by not going to authorities or something like that. how do we know exactly what he said to this kid? >> what he says he said -- he said his only response was i hope that you knew to use a condom. and he said that part of the reason for that was that at the time he was in the closet. so he was a little flustered by this confrontation. >> he said in a statement 21

years later -- we're talking about 1988 -- i can see how i should have handled the situation differently. i should have asked for more information and consulted legal or medical authorities, mika. >> mike, i've been sort of looking into this and really trying to figure out the balance here. just your gut, is this a story? i mean, a real, legitimate, important story that we should be reporting. >> i think it's a story that conservative groups -- >> is it a story? politico, msnbc? is it a story? >> it is now. because the education secretary arne duncan issued a statement saying he's proud to have kevin jennings on his team. kevin jennings said he would have done this differently. that makes it worth reporting. >> i would agree with you. i really would. i think it's complicate, and i think it takes a long time to really let it breathe. we'll talk more about it in coming days when joe comes back. there are differently serious

issues involving a minor, involving judgment of someone, someone who then wrote about it in his book, how he handled the situation with a minor having a relationship with an adult. at the same time, we also have to look at -- and we will -- when this happened. because it was the late '80s? >> 1980. >> because outing a gay student has very different ramifications than it does today. there's so many dimensions to it. it's a story that we have to be careful with but we don't hide from. >> the question is did he try to put a stop to this? >> he did not. that's the issue. >> or he had issues of solidarity with the man rather than the kid. >> that's the issue. >> the critics say he failed to protect the young kid from a sexual predator. that's the criticism. >> and the other thing that mike mentioned that we cannot downplay, the fact that kevin jennings was in the closet at the time he had this conversation with the student. and, remember, even then and still today, some teachers are being hounded out of their positions because they're gay.

imagine what that was like in 1988. so that's also part of it. >> i do imagine what it was like in 1988. i will say, though, if this had nothing to do with a gay relationship and this was a hetero relationship discussed pertaining to a 15-year-old child, it would still be a story and it's a problem. >> it's a story, but, again, if you're a 24-year-old closeted teacher and a student comes to you, you're worried about the student, but you're also worried, is this something where, if i really talked with this person, with this student, that i myself could get into trouble because of who i am. >> and you've got to be worried about the law. >> whether uruguay or straight, isn't there an obligation to the child? >> there was an obligation. >> i'm not denying that. i'm trying to add more context. >> one more politico story. we will come back to this at another time. absolutely. go ahead. >> before we get the question from the left, right or wrong, why would that preclude him from now 21 years later doing a good

job in his office. we'll talk about that later. let's talk about sarah palin's book, changing gears, mike allen. already number one all over the place. doesn't come out for another month and a half. >> willie, we don't even have a cover yet that we can show you. we have a cover very shortly. just a few hours after this title "going rogue" was announced, it became number one on barnes and noble.com and amazon.com. i can tell you that people in washington think this title, "going rogue," is a strong hint that governor palin does not plan to run for national office. she seems to be embracing the caricature of her. people close to her say, wait, read the book. you can't necessarily assume that. but i can tell you that's the buzz in d.c. >> pat, how many copies have you preordered? >> i hit amazon with one click. i've been doing it all night long. >> you just made her a bestseller. >> i don't want to look at my

amazon.com bill. >> it's worth it. >> i think you might want to hide it from shelly. >> all right, mike. thank you very much. >> one click buchanan. see you guys. >> politico.com. check him out. america's first lady, she's on a hard sell mission bringing the 2016 summer olympic games to the second city, chicago. and here is, for more on that. >> reporter: the charm offensive in full force. michelle obama in copenhagen to persuade olympic officials that her hometown of chicago deserves to host the 2016 olympic games. the vote is on friday, and the race is a dead heat. so the first lady lost no time making her pitch. >> chicago is a wonderful host city, great people, great facilities. it knows about people, and the hospitality is like no other. >> reporter: but the three other finalists, rio de janeiro, madrid, and tokyo -- have great

venues and strong plans as well. >> we're going to have a kick on friday to finish it off. >> reporter: that's where chicago hopes for a game changer. for the first time ever, a u.s. president, barack obama, will enter the race, appearing in a do or die appeal for votes. while 26 former olympians like jackie joyner kersee have joined in to make the hard sell. >> the leader of your country comes in to support what we're doing. >> reporter: with so much star power in town, even this relatively routine dinner for chicago's supporters has turned into a red carpet affair fit for the oscars. guess who was there? chicago's own oprah winfrey. >> if we get this, the party starts friday. >> reporter: but the race isn't over yet. the other candidates are sending in their big guns too. spain's king juan carlos, a former olympian from madrid, and brazil's soccer legend pele. and tokyo? the royal family is rumored to be on the way. still are chicago's rivals

worried? you bet they are. >> of course in their camps they're going oh, no. they'd be thrilled if the president had stayed home. >> reporter: back home, according to the polls, chicagoans are undecided about hosting the games. mrs. obama called the next two days crucial to winning a sports event that feels more like a political campaign. jim maceda, nbc news, copenhagen. >> you know what's interesting, mika, "chicago tribune" poll found at last half of chicagoans don't want the olympics. >> they're the same as new york. nobody wants it. >> heads the committee of dead fish. >> listen, we need the jobs. coming up next, a look at what's making headlines in papers from around the country. plus why hollywood is defending film director roman polanski, accused of a sex crime. i believe he admitted to it. keep it right here on "morning joe." excellence is right on time.

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isn't that a pretty shot from chopper 4? thanks, chopper 4. welcome back to "morning joe." it is 6:30 on the east coast. time for a look at some of the day's top stories. three earthquakes in two separate parts of the world are being blamed for the deaths of hundreds of people this morning. more than 400 were killed in indonesia following yesterday's quake and today's aftershocks.

meanwhile, thousands struggle in the aftermath of 20-foot tsunami waves in the samoan islands. a huge rescue effort is under way for american families living in the region. ken lewis, the embattled ceo of bank of america, is planning to step down by the end of the year. lewis continues to face intense criticism after the bank agreed to buy merrill limplling during the economic crisis last year. bank executives admit they knew merrill was paying out thousands of dollars in bonuses while asking for more government bailout. and while the top ten names on the forbes list of wealthiest americans are the same, their bank accounts are considerably smaller. bill gates is in the top spot although he lost about $7 billion last year. warren buffett ranks a close second even though his bottom line dropped by $10 billion. overall, the richest americans lost a combined $400 billion. let's take a look at the morning papers. we'll start with "the new york

times," national unity is rallying cry in iraq elections. politicians cross ethnic and sectarian lines to form alliances. >> washington post, u.s. opens door to bilateral talks with iranians. also in "the washington post," supreme court justice to decide if state gun laws violate rights. >> "the wall street journal," bank of america chief resigns under fire. fed up with criticism under the controversial merrill lynch takeover, ken lewis says he will resign by the end of the year. more on this coming up with cnbc's maria bartiromo. >> how about the honolulu advertiser? quick-born waves devastate samoas. and this morning a second earthquake, as mika reported earlier, rocked indonesia as they struggle to reach survivors. >> and connecticut's tax on cigarettes goes up to $3 a pack. i love it. that's why i love connecticut. that's one of the highest

tobacco taxes in the country. the question is will it lead to fewer smokers and help the state budget? the answer is yes, it is true. >> i'm with you on that one. >> how do you get more money if you have fewer smokers? >> you tax fewer smokers. raise the tax to high enough, you'll get no smokers and no money. >> that's true. maybe the money part won't work out so well. but fewer smokers, pat? that's a good thing. >> but who are you hitting? you're hitting working class people that like their cigarettes. >> working class people need to be just as healthy. >> they don't need the nanny taking away their smokes. >> pat, i really wish we didn't need it. i really wish. if you look at our situation here, people overdo it on cigarettes and food. >> people have been told all their lives what cigarettes do and they want to smoke. and we tax the daylights out of them simply because they have a habit of what they enjoy.

>> we've got people that every day know the dangers of what they put in their mouth, inhale, and eat, and they still do it, which makes our society overall weaker. >> mika, america was about freedom. >> yes, it is. >> and freedom to get healthy. >> and i want to the freedom not to pay for your health care. >> you know what our founding fathers did, they were tobacco farmers. >> that's terrific. >> bibles and guns. >> legalize marijuana, tax it, that's where you get the money. just throwing it out there. that's the option. >> up next, more with pat buchanan and jonathan capehart as we take a look at this morning's must read opinion pages. also this morning, we'll go live to geneva with andrea mitchell for a preview of today's iran talks. um bill-- why is dick butkus here? i hired him to speak. a lot of fortune 500 companies use him.

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someone on "morning joe" this morning apparently confused me for another -- >> jonathan capehart. >> the writer for "the washington post." >> confused me with someone else when he said he thought i had been molested as a child. jonathan, honey, the only person who molested me as a child was me. and i did it often. jonathan, i know you probably were trying to make a point and i know that you're cool with me telling you it wasn't me, but, you know, it wasn't me. >> does he think you look exactly like oprah winfrey? have you apologized to you for molesting you? >> well, you know, i didn't realize -- >> she's under a great deal of pressure from the molestation of herself. >> that's what i was torn between. i wasn't supposed to enjoy it as much as i do -- or did. >> when you molested yourself,

did you plead guilty to a lewd and lascivious act. >> i must tell you, i didn't charge myself. >> oh, jonathan, if that's a way to, i guess, move on. i know you want to speak. we had a conversation yesterday about roman polanski, and jonathan chimed in. we've all had moments like this, every single one of us -- i had a few yesterday. but you spoke to whoopi goldberg after. >> yesterday when ied ma emade comment, i said i don't know if this is true. the point i was trying to make is maybe whoopi had a deeper level of knowledge just so we could acknowledge -- >> because she made some comments about rape. >> yes. anyway, after the show, pete and lauren come over and say, whoopi goldberg would like to talk to you. so we got on the phone, and she could not have been nicer. and she said to me. baby, i think you've got me

confuseded with oprah winfrey. and i said, oh, my god, miss goldberg, i am so sorry. again, i want to apologize to whoopi goldberg for confusing her with oprah winfrey. must be that color purple thing because they were both in that movie. she couldn't have been nicer. and she accepted my apology. i also want to apologize to you guys and the viewers because we do this every day. we talk all the time for a living. we're supposed to get it right. and so if, you know, we don't get it right -- and certainly if i don't get it right, i want to apologize. so i apologize to you and to the viewers for imparting wrong information. >> so been there and done that, all of us. jonathan, we get it, and i'm really glad that you guys spoke. i know, if anyone understands what we do, it would be the women of "the view." i think they handled it so nicely. let's now talk about the roman

polanski story because i have to say i'm really getting, well, deeper convictions about a real schism between the hollywood community and the rest of us, if i may, in terms of giving this guy a pass because he's talented. willie, take over. >> it's really interesting to watch. hollywood has almost completely to a man rallied to the side of roman polanski. you don't need to know the details again. 1977 he pled guilty to having sex with a 13-year-old girl, fled the country. there's been a warrant for his arrest since 1978. so hollywood, let's start with harvey weinstein, one of the biggest hitters in all of hollywood, says "we are calling every filmmaker we can to help fix this terrible situation." the terrible situation being that roman polanski was arrested in switzerland a couple of days ago. there's a petition being circulated in around hollywood. it's been signed by woody allen, martin scorsese, jonathan demme,

penelope cruz, the list goes on and on. what you've set up for is people not in hollywood, what is going on jorge? the guy raped, admitted to doing it. a 13-year-old girl. people in hollywood say it's a miscarriage of justice. it's been 32 years. and they are rallying almost completely behind him, pat. >> i can understand why a friend would say, look, this is my friend and i want to stand behind him. it's another thing to say he ought to be exempt from the laws of the nation, having fled after this dreadful act on a 13-year-old, fled a fugitive from justice, and he ought to be able to, in effect, get away with it. that's what i don't understand. i'll tell you, out in the country, i don't think roman polanski's got -- i think his support is zilch. very few people know who he is. i know hollywood does. all they know about him is this. he did that, and he fled. >> and i would welcome any of these hollywood moguls or directors or actors to come on this show and explain to me

that, if cameraman or somebody, well, who works here or works down the street raped a 13-year-old, would they still be in jail right now? >> i mean, you'd be going to jail for a long, long time. >> would they have served time? >> that's why he fled. i think he found out that judge was going to give him time. he thought he had a sweetheart deal where he wasn't going to get time. so he fled the country. he becomes a fugitive from justice as well as a convicted rapist, as it were. >> what we're seeing here is normal americans, regular people with regular jobs, maybe not incredibly stupendously academy award-winning talenteded, go to jail, but roman polanski does not have to. >> a lot of middle americans with 13-year-old daughters who want to be actresses and stuff. that's who he took advantage of. >> the one thing you would say for the hollywood community rallying behind him, the question is why has this just

happened now? there's an arrest warrant in 1978. they've had international arrest warrants since 2005. why now are they suddenly hell bent when they know he's been living in switzerland for years? why did they capture him now? >> it's a great question, jonathan capehart, why now? who's got it in for him? why they actually decided to nail him exactly where they did and haul him in? i'd loaf to know the answers. i don't care what the answers are because it does not deny what he did. why is there this divide? >> and the other thing is he fled the united states, but then moved around europe with ease. you know, they could have picked him up at any time. one of the rumors is -- or one of the reports is that perhaps switzerland dropped a dime on him and allowed him to be arrested in order to improve relations with the united states. u.s. and switzerland are having discussions about banking policy. but still, you know, this is somebody who should have been picked up a long time ago.

it just widens the divide between hollywood and the rest of us. >> i would like to, just in full disclosure here, name the names of prominent fellow directors, including woody allen -- that's terrific. woody allen, martin scorsese, terry giliam, jonathan demme, ethan cohen, david lynch, as well as actress penelope cruz, and tilda swinton. debra winger complained, "this fledging festival has been unfairly exploited." she blames swiss authorities for authorize philistine collusion. and harvey wine sten says, "we're calling every filmmaker who can fix this terrible situation." they're all hollywood. >> what are they talking about fix? >> you can't fix this.

>> he's a fugitive from justice. >> i'd love people to come on this show and explain to me how a rape isn't a rape when it pertains to someone who has huge affiliations with hollywood money and academy awards. >> if you're wavering on this, i encourage you to go online. we're not going to read it on the show. read the testimony of the teenage girl back in 1977. probably convince you of a few things. >> i invite them to help us understand. coming up, it's front page news in philadelphia today. for the third straight season, phillies clinch the national league east title. sports is next. also, willie's news you can't use, which i assume will not have you dismissed from the table today. >> it's up to you. you were so cruel yesterday. >> plus maria bartiromo and jamie rubin. we'll be right back. tdd# 1-800-345-2550 yeah, i know what you mean... tdd# 1-800-345-2550 when my broker said, "i make money when you make money,"

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i drove a truck for twenty-seven and a half years... and when i fell and busted my back up, that ended my driving career. and then i lost my health insurance. we tried to get health insurance on our own, but was turned down every time because of pre-existing condition. last year i lost my wife to cancer. like all of this could have been prevented if we'd of had a simple thing called insurance it's just hard to swallow. to lose somebody like that you weren't always my favorite day. with all the pet hair in the air, i'd spend class preoccupied, bothered by itchy eyes. but now i have new zyrtec® itchy eye drops. it works fast, with just one drop, to relieve my itchy eyes from allergies for up to 12 hours. no other allergy itchy eye drop works faster or longer.

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so, at national, i go right past the counter... and you get to choose any car in the aisle. choose any car? you cannot be serious! okay. seriously, you choose. go national. go like a pro. ladies and gentlemen, here's exciting news. sarah palin, her memoirs have been published, coming out in early november. i got an advanced copy of the sarah palin memoir. listen to this. this time i was the one who quit halfway through. >> oh, dave. that ain't nice. we're talking about sarah's book -- >> you think it's cold, pat? >> cruel.

>> pat has already ordered the book in bulk. i understand we already have an e-mail. this is from plattsburgh, new york. seriously, what does pat's wife think about sarah palin and how pat feels about her? pat doesn't even try to hide how he is enormously attracted to her. i would feel awful if i were shelly. it >> it's more of a respect, isn't it, pat? >> right. but the calendar is etched in, willie. >> the palin calendar. >> miss july. put that on the cover. >> pat, you have no shame. >> it might be october, but pat is still on july in that calendar. time for sports now. we've got a bunch of people clinching playoff berths, races tightening up. fred roggin has highlights. it was just a matter of time before the defending champs clinched the n.l. east, and that time was last night. against the astros, raul ibanez rounded into a fielder's choice. i don't think he chose to do that. past second into centerfield.

allowed chase utley to trot home and tie the game at 3. phillies running away with it. raul ibanez smashed his 34th homer of the year into the cheap seats in the second deck. brad lidge ended the game with two outs in the ninth and received a standing ovation. phillies win their third straight division title. tigers add to the lead in the a.l. central with a win over the twins. ramon santiago with a bloop double and scored a pair. detroit up 4-2 after two. magglio ordonez break the game wide open in the fifth with a double of his own that scored three. tigers win 7-2. they now have a three-game lead over the twins. to say the dodgers are struggling is an understatement. kevin kuzmanov put the padres up. the magic number remains at one after dropping their fourth straight. dodgers continue to lose, and the rockies keep on winning. todd helton belted a two-run homer, and rockies up 4-2.

carlos gonzalez took a turn. now you see it, now you don't. rockies won 10-6. they have a four-game lead on atlanta in the wild card and just 2 1/2 behind the dodgers in the west. colorado plays a three-game set in l.a. this weekend to close out the season. as if the mets season couldn't get worse. up 4-3 in the ninth against the lowly nationals. francisco rodriguez gave up a grand slam home run to justin maxwell. they won in dramatic fashion 7-4. sports and politics don't often mix. tomorrow in copenhagen they'll collide head on when the ioc will vote for the host city for the 2016 summer games. chicago and rio de janeiro considered the front runners. to help chicago's bid, the first lady arrived in denmark ahead of the president, who will address the general assembly for the vote. the first family is from chicago, as is talk show host oprah winfrey, in copenhagen to lend her support. soccer star pele is there to boost rio's chances.

japanese prime minister and king juan carlos of spain also expected to attend tomorrow's vote. it's no secret tiger woods has been making history ever since he picked up a golf club. the 33-year-old has hit the jackpot. thanks to a $10 million bonus at the fedex cup, tiger has become the first african-american athlete ever to earn over $1 billion in earnings. he had earned a cumulative $850 million going into this year, but because of golf course design and endorsements he's up to ten figures. mansfield down two with just under two seconds to play. a 46-yard field goal was short. casey babcock grabbed it. the game was over, right? he spiked the ball. he was thrilled they'd won. the ball was live. the game wasn't over. jeff sutherland picked up the loose ball and ran it in for the game-winning touchdown. an improbable victory for a game they should have lost, 21-16.

>> fred's got it all. local high school sports in vermont. you name it, he's doing it. coming up next, "news you can't use." hillary clinton saying she likes being president. we have a sound bite. she said she likes being president. we'll tell you where she said it and what she meant. an water.

time for a quick ghost of the "news you can't use." hillary clinton, currently president of the u.n. security council. as the nation's chief diplomat, she's presiding over that body in new york city.

and yesterday she made a reference to being president and just how much she enjoys that position. take a listen. >> thank you so much. i resume now my function as president of the council. i kind of like being a president. so this may go on a little longer than anticipated. >> that's cute. >> very gracious, as ever. did you see that little hint in there? >> no, willie. why do you have to make it -- what's wrong with you? >> little touch of that. >> jamie rubin is with us. you know hillary clinton. >> that was nice. that was a cute moment. >> it was a nice moment, wasn't it? >> i thought it was nice, cute. have a little fun as the president of the security council. >> there you go. thank you. >> exactly right. >> what else, willie? >> i have a shocking expose. i apologize to everyone involved. "the washington times" did some digging. there are a lot of big issues

confronting the country. they looked into porn surfing at the national science foundation, and they came up with pretty shocking results. they say there are ten misconduct cases involving senior workers. one senior executive at the national science foundation spent at least 331 days looking at porn and chatting with scantily clad women on his work computer. when he was confronted, get this, he said he frequented the porn sites to provide a living to the poor women overseas to help them get through the days. true story. "washington times" reporting about the national science foundation. >> we need to have a news meeting every morning. >> just filter through some of that stuff? >> i think we're going to have to have a "news you can't use" editorial. jamie rubin is here, for god's sakes. >> media bias. i tell you a story of what's happening under the obama administration, and you try to squash it. >> seriously, after "jon and kate plus 8" yesterday, that had

to be dismissed. >> i led with an apology. >> you should. top of the hour. willie, you should go. you just should go. >> no. welcome back to "morning joe," everyone. i'm mika brzezinski. joe is off, recovering, doing fine. i've got pat buchanan. jamie rubin is with us once again along with me and willie. before we get to news, we'd like to say good morning to all of our new viewers in south orange county. today all cox communications viewers in orange county, california, will be able to wake up with us on cox channel 3, starting at 6:00 a.m. pacific time. i like that. no more tivoing. welcome, welcome, welcome to "morning joe." there's an iran meeting taking place, andrea mitchell coming up. iran and six other nations getting together to talk about, among other things, the central issue, the nuclear issue. jamie rubin will be talking to us about that, and nbc chief

foreign correspondent andrea mitchell as well. and also, the president met with his security team about afghanistan. some would say that's the pivotal decision he has to make in his presidency in terms of foreign policy right now. that's what pat believes. we'll talk about what the options are there. also, the criticism he's going to fight for chicago getting the olympics in the midst of all this, which seems to me to be a little silly in the age of cell phones. also, we will review the hypocrisy surrounding roman polanski once again. first, it's time for a look at the day's top stories. officials say at least 529 people are dead following a pair of indonesian earthquakes, the latest coming just this morning. today's 6.8 magnitude quake struck 150 miles from the epicenter of yesterday's disaster. thousands of buildings collapsed, and search teams fear hundreds of people may be trapped in the rubble. meanwhile, the death toll from an earthquake triggered a tsunami in samoa and american samoa.

the death toll stands at 150. it's being called the worst disaster on u.s. soil since hurricane katrina. nbc's lee cowan is in apia, samoa, with the very latest. >> reporter: good morning. it is the very wee hours of the morning in samoa. as soon as daylight breaks, officials expect those relief operations will get right back into high gear. it's been pretty astonishing over the last 12 hours or so that we've been here to see how much has been accomplished given the severity of the damage. we've seen roads that were largely washed out being repaired, at least temporarily, enough to get at least one lane of traffic through, which certainly helps getting the relief supplies in. we've seen electrical crews going about trying to get power restored. pretty remarkable given the fact that some of these villages are in very, very remote areas. it's pretty much neighbor helping neighbor here, in every area you can imagine, including what to do with the dead. that really is one of the biggest problems we're facing here. the hospital morgues, we're told, are overwhelmed. they don't know exactly what to do with the dead.

there are relief agencies offering temporary morgue facilities. again, these are only temporary. this is an island that is very steeped in tradition, and a lot of families are foregoing those traditions and trying to bury their dead as quickly as they possibly can. the death toll now stands at at least 150 although officials expect it to be much higher than that. the wave in some areas here went as far as a mile inland. if you're taking areas where the wave hit on the coast, that's certainly a long stretch in order to search for family and loved ones. this is -- there is a certain sense, i guess, of resiliency here, though. as we were driving around, there was painted on one of the homes that we saw that life goes on. we saw that same thing painted on a car even further down. so while there's certainly a lot of grief, there's certainly a lot of rebuilding, certainly a long way to go. the sense here is that there's not much else to do but pick up and do the best they can. but certainly a long way to go from here. that's the latest from samoa. back to you guys. >> all right. nbc's lee cowan reported.

in other news this morning, the top u.s. commander in afghanistan warns the insurgency is growing, adding success there cannot be taken for granted. this follows an intense war council meeting at the white house on wednesday, where some administration officials pushed back against calls for additional u.s. forces. meanwhile, republicans in congress are urging the president to make a quick decision. minority whip eric cantor tells "the washington times," listen, you've got american lives on the line over there. as long as they are delaying, that puts in jeopardy, i believe, our men and women. the white house frames that criticism as purely political. >> i don't recall congressman cantor saying that, when general david mckiernan's request for 30,000 additional troops sat on the desk of the previous commander in chief, i don't remember him going to a newspaper or on television saying that that commander in chief was endangering the lives of men and women in afghanistan. i would say this to congressman cantor and everybody else, the

american people deserve an assessment that's beyond game plan. >> i can see both sides here, actually, pat. what do you think about what eric cantor said? purely political. >> i agree with gibbs. i think the republicans here are really putting the pressure on obama to make the decision to commit these 45,000 troops. i don't think he's made up his mind yet. i don't think gates has decided. i think a lot of people have real doubts. biden certainly does. i think they ought to take their time because this is a decision that is going to be fateful for this country. i think -- and i would ask jamie this -- i think what's driving a lot of this now is not the hope of the 45,000 is going to give us a great victory, but the fear of a defeat for america if we don't put the 45,000 in. i notice that is basically the theme of "the wall street journal," complete loss of american credibility if you lose afghanistan. >> jamie rubin? >> i think there is a risk of allowing afghanistan to fall to

the taliban so many years after we've gone in there. i would expect that under a taliban leadership, if that came again, you might see tame come out from osama bin laden saying, i'm back in kabul, and i think that would send the wrong message in the war against islamic extremists who use terrorism. i think this issue, really, however, is going to boil down to how much force we need to use and how much commitment we need to show to pakistan. and i say that because the pakistanis have always feared that we would be short-timers. we wouldn't stay very long, and therefore they have to cut their own deals with the taliban. and we just got them in the right place over the last year or so. they're starting to really crack down. and i think, if we can convince the pakistanis that we're not short-timers, we can continue to

do so well what we've been doing, attacking from the air and on the ground. but if by this deliberation and by the decision they conclude we're short-timers, we're really getting out, then i think they're going to head the wrong way. i think that for me is a crucial hinge question of the decision. >> couple of things. i think, if there's a draw down in troops, that is the decision i would like to see made sooner because then eric cantor has a point. at the same time, this president, the one thing i do trust is that he's not going to do this for us or for eric cantor. he's going to take his time to make the decision he believes is right. he's done that at times before when there have been calls for him to act and do it now and why haven't we heard from him? he takes his time, and should with this. having said this, if there is a huge change in strategy and we decide to pull back a little bit and not risk lives, i would not like to see us wait six months for that. having said that, we have

news that is just crossing. the u.s.-pakistan deputy head of missions at a press lunch in islamabad told the pakistani media that osama bin laden is alive and hiding in pakistan. he claimed that the taliban shura is hiding in the south western area. >> we've long suspected that osama bin laden is in this area of pakistan that's not very well governed on the border of afghanistan. and that is why senator biden, now vice president biden -- i worked for him once, so i called him senator there -- is saying that we need to focus our counterterrorism efforts on pakistan and that, you know, things are starting to go pretty well. these drones are start to go work well. we're working closely with the pakistani military, and maybe one of these days we're going to get close to bin laden.

>> you read "the wall street journal," a good lead editorial, pakistan's foreign minister says the very debate going on in the united states, are we going to get in? are we going to put in more troops? he says, that sends a signal of indecision that is very, very costly to american credibility. >> we'll talk about this more. it's good to have you here, jamie rubin. moving on with news. president obama will head to copenhagen this evening to make a personal appeal to the international olympic committee. he'll join the first lady who, along with oprah winfrey, is making a bid for chicago to host the 2016 summer olympic games. though it is a quick trip, some say the president is taking his eye off the ball. >> i think it's a great idea to promote chicago, but he's the president of the united states, not the mayor of chicago. and the problems we have here at home affect all americans, and that's where his attention ought to be. >> jamie rubin, is this -- i can't help but to think this is

silly, this criticism. >> the criticism? >> that he's getting his eye off the ball because he's going to pitch chicago for the olympics. >> they're obviously using all the cheap shot arguments you can, whether it's quick decisions on this or the mayor of chicago line, which is pretty -- >> cheap. >> again, in political terms, i think that would be a fairly low blow. the point here is everybody has their special city. being a new yorker, i can't quite understand what the fuss is about. second cities like chicago, boston, washington, l.a. take their city pride very seriously. i think that's why he's over there. >> i think it has less to do with that. i think the fact they have so many times to chicago may help and that this is about jobs and this is about a multi-tasking president with a lot of issues, jobs being one of them. >> republicans are being partisan here. look, lula, the president of brazil is going, and if rio got that thing and obama hadn't gone, republicans would drop on him with both feet. so they got the king of spain

there, the president of brazil, the prime minister of japan. i think he's pretty much got to go and got to make the case for his hometown. >> let's just hope he wins. >> and you know what -- >> he'd better not lose. >> i was thinking about that because i thought, if it's not wired for some reason and he doesn't, he's put himself out there. i actually don't think it's a bad thing. he puts himself out there -- >> he did, but he had no other choice. i think, when you consider these other people are all going there, and if he hadn't gone and lost -- >> still it's heady criticisms like that really kind of undermine the real criticisms we need to think about pertaining to spending and foreign policy and what questions we should be asking. speaking of that, the battle of health care continues. house representative alan grayson is the latest to draw fire after claiming republican plans was to allow americans to "die quickly." and he made a sign just so you could read the words die quickly. after republicans demanded an

apology, grayson offered one, but, jamie, tell me if you think this is an apology. i'm still a little confused. this is grayson's apology. >> so the republicans asked me to apologize. well, i would like to apologize. i would like to apologize to the dead. here's why. according to this study, health insurance and mortality in u.s. adults, which was published two weeks ago, 44,789 americans die every year because they have no health insurance. that is more than ten times the number of americans who have died in the war in iraq. it's more than ten times the number of americans who died in 9/11. i apologize to the dead and their families that we haven't voted sooner to end this holocaust in america. >> i'm going to stick to foreign policy subjects. >> just want to stay in your safe zone. >> it should be pointed out this

guy grayson is in a tight race. as pat said earlier, he saw what happened to joe wilson. he became a hero of his constituency. the money flooded in. >> and so he's pandering. >> and he's soaking up the moment. >> and he's making it worse, it starts with die quickly and ends with the holocaust. that's high brow conversation. i would say any democrat or republican to takes part in that is a joke. coming up, tom brokaw will be with us, plus cnbc's maria bartiromo. and putting the heat on iran. a meeting with world leaders is under way right now in geneva. we'll go to andrea mitchell with the latest. and we'll check in with chuck todd on the north lawn of the white house. plus the star-studded campaign to bring the 2016 olympics to chicago. we'll go live to denmark, where president obama is heading today to make his pitch. the first lady and oprah already there. but first, a check on the weather with meteorologist ginger zee from wmaq in chicago. ginger? >> mika, good morning. good morning to everyone.

if you're traveling, no airport delays to report as of now. but a storm in the center of the country may be a problem for you today. lots of lightning associated with it. thunderstorms heading towards chicago. here's the forecast for new york and beyond. here in the northeast, another fall-like day. that's a look at your forecast. you are watching "morning joe" brewed by starbucks. how to get rich, by america's health insurance companies. raise health insurance premiums 4 times faster than wages. pay your ceo twenty four million dollars a year. deny payment for 1 out of every 5 treatments doctors prescribe. if the insurance companies win, you lose.

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i think it's important now for the iranians to take this opportunity sitting across the table from the p-five plus one partners and demonstrate for the world what their intentions are. the beginning of that is full and unfettered access to this

facility. but there are a lot of other steps, i think they'll get an opportunity to take, and we'll see what they have to offer. >> welcome back to "morning joe." here with us now, live at the white house, nbc news chief white house correspondent and nbc news political director chuck todd. and with us from geneva, switzerland, where the high stakes talks between iran and six major powers, including the u.s., are already under way, is nbc news chief foreign affairs correspondent and host of msnbc's "andrea mitchell reports," andrea mitchell. andrea, we'll start with you because you are there. what's the headline so far? >> reporter: the headline is that u.s. officials say that for the first time they are ready to talk one on one with iran. that's the first time in decades, and that decision was only reached in the last 24 to 48 hours. so they're willing during breaks, and they are right now, mika, in the first break. right now the u.s. and iran could be facing off one on one. and that would be quite

something. and then that would be the opportunity to test iranian intentions, what they expected going in was they were going to get a long lecture from said jalili. he's the leader of iran. he usually speaks denouncing the united states. the u.s. is led by robert burns. he's a veteran diplomat. he's the under secretary of state. and this will be a chance to see is iran willing to back down from this conversation? for days, mohammed el baradei has said that what iran is doing is illegal. iran's excuses don't wash. iran was caught red handed. if they're willing to back down, there's a possible compromise where they would freeze their nuclear program and the iaea would let iran buy low grade enriched uranium, which could not be made for weapons, but low grade enriched uranium for peaceful purposes from russia

and france. that's a possible out. >> we're going to get to chuck todd at the white house in just a moment. first, andrea, jamie rubin is with us, and he has a quick question for you. >> reporter: jamie, i wish you were here. it's strange to be in geneva without jamie rubin. he's done many hours with president asad, many clinton, madeleine albright. >> this question of one on one, whether it's taking place between saad jalili and bill burns, that would be the effect of our election. bill burns has been in this setting before last year, but the u.s. under bush wouldn't agree to this one on one. has it taken place? >> reporter: i couldn't hear exactly what you were saying. if you're asking, jamie, if that is the big change since the elections, absolutely right. that's the point. that was the new policy of engagement, diplomatic engagement, and we're waiting to

see -- the u.s. side said yesterday, this is the first test of whether barack obama's diplomatic engagement can work because he is willing to sit down with the iranians, with adversaries as well as friends, bill burns did say jalili a year ago in july, but under instructions from the bush white house, he was only able to listen in the talks. he could not engage one on one. he could not even talk in that meeting. jamie, you've got it right. that is the change since the election. we'll see if it pays off. >> let's go to chuck todd at the white house for that angle on the story. according to one senior official, chuck, the u.s. is looking for not just words, but actions. what is it going to take, given especially what you just heard from andrea's reporting? >> reporter: i want to tell you about one other aspect. do you realize in the haft two weeks -- and this goes to jamie's point and andrea's point -- the u.s. has officially had -- if the one on one talks

happens with iran at some point today. i wouldn't think they'd say it was going to happen if it didn't happen. that means the u.s. has sat down in the last two weeks has engaged cuba. we sent a delegation to cuba and had one on one talks. that was the first time it had happened in five years. and now iran. it goes right to the point of what jamie brought up. this is the consequence of the election. this was the pledge that candidate obama made, and now we're seeing it in action now. now, in talking to the white house here, what is success -- they don't like to actually say what it is, but they say you'll know it when you see it. one, this idea that iran will allow this unfettered access. to define unfettered, what that means is not just physically being able to go to this facility, but also giving all the records, who worked on it, allowing some background checks to be done by the international atomic energy agency. so they know who were the scientists behind it and all of that stuff. and then the second thing is the

pace of negotiations. does iran say, great, we'll see you in february? or will all of a sudden there will be something on the calendar in about every couple l of weeks? maybe every three weeks or something there is actual engagement so that there is a speed to this. if there's not a speed to this, then the u.s. has already worked on three different sanction tracks that they're already put into place. >> so, chuck, while that's all on the table and happening right now, the other big story is afghanistan. there was the big meeting with the national security council yesterday and the president, and there is pressure from some republicans to make a decision quickly as to where we go with afghanistan. what's the white house doing at this point in terms of dealing with the issue? >> reporter: a couple of things. so there was a three-hour meeting yesterday, and the first thing the president did was said, look, we're not going to discuss troop levels. this is not a conversation about that. so the entire three-hour meeting i'm told was about simply everybody giving their

assessment of where things are right now from their perspective. whether it was the intelligence community, the diplomatic community, civilians, et cetera. so that's what -- and 17 different people talked. so you can divide up the time. three hours, 17 people, and you can see that it was very much sort of a where do things stand conversation. toward the end of the meeting, general jones, the national security adviser, left to go brief u.s. senators. a senators only meeting on afghanistan, and he gave him a little bit on iran and a little bit on missile defense. in talking to some people who were in that meeting, i'm told he said, look, a decision on the strategy will come in weeks. weeks, not months. so this was meeting two of this sort of war council. the next meeting is next week, next wednesday. it will be solely sort of where things stand as far as pakistan is concerned. and then i think you're going to see that kind of pace continue

probably, and sometime around november we'll have something. >> jamie, real quick. >> just for people to really understand this -- and andrea touched on it. iran, there's two issues. one is will we get access to this site that was brought up roughly a week ago that everyone's talking about? i think iranians are going to give access to that site. they've suggested that already. they're going to release a letter between them and the atomic agency, and that's one thing. the second thing, what andrea referred to, is freezing their program. that's the objective of all this. and on that one, there's no indication whatsoever they're going to go along. so i think we need to distinguish between these two things now that we've made the -- >> what does action mean? willie? >> chuck, we heard earlier this morning, we played a clip of john boehner saying barack obama is not the mayor of chicago, he's the president of the united states. he shouldn't be going over there. can you lay out exactly how much time of the day this is going to take for the president and how disconnected he's going to be,

how health care is going to go down the tubes when he's gone? >> reporter: he leaves tonight after dinner, after dinnertime. flies all night. lands at about, i think, 2:00 or 3:00 in the morning east coast time. does all of his work. he'll be out of there before -- he'll be in the air on the way back to washington before lunchtime. he'll probably be back at the white house in time for members of congress to have their happy hour. >> that's terrific. >> and, chuck, do they have like a cb or a ham radio on the plane where he could talk to other people potentially? >> reporter: what it is is you rev the engine, and it's a smoke signal that comes out. it's very interesting the way they communicate. >> so he will be in touch. chuck todd at the white house. thanks so much. great to talk to you. thank you, andrea. now to the president's trip to denmark, as we were just discussing his push for chicago 2016. the first lady and oprah already there. so it another huge star, nbc's natalie morales.

good morning to you, natalie. >> reporter: thank you, willie. i appreciate that. >> it's just the truth. >> reporter: good morning to you from copenhagen. it's beautiful. >> looks beautiful there. let's talk about this controversy. we know the king of spain is there. we know the prime minister of japan is there. we know the president of brazil is there. how is president obama being received there? >> reporter: listen, with all due respect to congress man boehner, we talked to somebody about this already, if the president didn't come here, chicago wouldn't be where it is in the standings today. this pretty much tips the voting in chicago's favor for now. rio, of course, a very strong contender. but michelle obama originally was supposed to be the only one coming along with oprah and some other super athlete delegates as well. but when the white house learned -- with these things, it seems you need these super power superstars behind these olympic

bids. when they learned that all these other heads of state were going to be here, then they decided, you know, who better else to make the case for chicago than chicago's son, the president himself? >> natalie, you say it might tip the scales in favor of chicago. do you get the sense that the president would not have made this trip if he didn't at least feel he had a pretty decent chance of bringing it home for chicago? >> reporter: oh, absolutely. i mean, he certainly is not going to waste his time coming here if he didn't think that there was a very strong case here. the bid is very strong for chicago. all seems to point in favor of chicago for now. but as i said, rio is a very strong contender. in terms of the ioc, they could vote more on the emotional factor that south america has never had an olympics before. so rio would be the first south american city to get the olympics if they, in fact, do end up winning the bid. willie? >> all right.

the president, oprah, and natalie morales together in copenhagen tipping the scales for america. thanks so much, natalie. appreciate it. still ahead, tom brokaw will be here in studio with us when "morning joe" continues. can't wait for that. how do you stop tacos falling over?

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bit by the end of october, i believe we'll be down to 120,000 troops in iraq. we'll thin our lines across iraq in order to reduce the risk and sustain stability through a deliberate transition of responsibilities to the iraqi security forces. >> interesting. here with us now, democratic representative from missouri and chairman of the house armed services committee, congress man ike skelton. thank you very much, congressman, for joining us. >> glad to be with you. >> and maria bartiromo joining the table. we are looking at a couple of front. we've got some advice on iraq from general odierno, his testimony yesterday. the number of attacks in iraq have dropped 85% over the past two years. but the question still remains pertaining to iraq, what will happen when the troops leave? >> well, let's certainly hope the iranians -- iraqians can get

their act together. the testimony yesterday from general odierno was very positive. actually, he's able to speed up the redeployment of troops from iraq, and that's a good sign. i think, if their government works together and the will of the people is that the country work as a solid country with a good future, i think it's going to work well. >> maria bartiromo, you have a question for the congressman. >> congressman, i want to switch over to afghanistan. we heard from chuck todd earlier after that three-hour meeting. everyone is wondering -- they talked about where we are in afghanistan, what's the status. so i ask you that question. where are we? what's the status? should we be sending the troops from iraq to afghanistan? >> i sent a letter to the president several days ago, giving him the benefit of my thought and analysis on

afghanistan, and i'm of the opinion that at the end of the day he should heed the request of the commander who's there on the ground. i've never heard of a war where you withhold your troops from doing the best they can if you have the ability to do it, and we have the ability to do it. >> that's one take. congressman, pat buchanan. >> if the president does not heed the advice of general mcchrystal and does not send troops and follows more of the biden plan, what do you think happens in afghanistan? >> according to general mcchrystal, there's the possibility of failure. failure means the taliban eventually creates another safe haven for al qaeda, which, of course, that whole area is the epicenter of terrorism in the world. it could spell some pretty unpleasant things for our country and our allies. >> congressman skelton, thank you very much for being on the

show this morning. thank you very much. we'll be right back with tom brokaw and more with maria bartiromo, jamie rubin, and pat buchanan. you're watching "morning joe." [ telephone rings ] [ ring ]

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we're dealing with people on the other side who are utterly unscrupulous. these are foot dragging, knuckle dragging neanderthals who know nothing but no. one way or the other, we have to overcome it for the sake of the nation. >> okay. here with us now, nbc's tom brokaw. have you seen all the other sound bites pertaining to him using the word holocaust and republicans want you to die? >> no. >> we're going to have to play one for you in order to give you

some context. tom brokaw is the author of "boom," talking about the '60s. a great book, handsome cover. this congressman went on the floor of the house. if we could put the picture up. it gives the rest of the story. he was asked to apologize for this. he went through this huge thing on the house floor, saying the republicans health care plan wants to you die quickly. he said it several times. and was asked to apologize. do we have his apology? i want his apology, pete. sorry to have you scrambling in the control room because, in light of what he said on the house floor, he was then asked to apologize because the language was a bit too shrill and what exactly some democrats were accusing the republicans of doing. do you have the apology, pete? here it is. >> several republicans asked me to apologize. well, i would like to apologize. i would like to apologize to the dead, and here's why. according to this study, health insurance and mortality in u.s.

adults, which was published two weeks ago, 44,789 americans die every year because they have no health insurance. that is more than ten times the number of americans who have died in the war in iraq. it's more than ten times the number of americans who died in 9/11. i apologize to the dead and their families that we haven't voted sooner to end this holocaust in america. >> okay. so i've been concerned that -- well, and especially after willie reported that he's got an election coming up, and this is sort of putting him out in the front pages again. i'm just concerned that we need to call out both sides on language. >> i don't think there's any question about that. look, the house has always been notorious for having the most rambunctious members and having that kind of free-wheeling debate. i do think it's gone to a different level here recently, and it's fueled a little bit by

all the fanning of the flames and the bloggers across the spectrum. these are important issues, and when you throw in a word like holocaust, then that becomes appropriately, for a lot of people, an out rarageous accusan that you can't connect the holocaust to what's going on in the political debate in this country about health care. that becomes a big distraction from the real issue we should be dealing with. i was thinking, pat, at the height of the watergate crisis, we didn't hear language like that in the house. it was pretty well organized in a systematic way. the house judiciary committee had the impeachment hearings. we had the urban committee. i don't remember that kind of language leveled at the president or 0, from your side, leveled at the people who were being critical of him. >> i think it's really partisan now. what this fellow is doing, he's in a very tough race in orlando, five republicans against him.

2010 is a good year. the only way i'm going to win this thing is energize my base, get the liberals out there. he's doing a reverse joe wilson, get the attention and things. he's made his call about how he's going to get reelected. i agree with you, throwing the word holocaust in, that ain't going to help him at all. >> that was in the apology, the response to the apology. i don't know. we're probably giving it attention, which is exactly what he wants. at the same time, we ran that grassley bite, which was off the cuff, pulling the plug on grandma, joe wilson, there was a lot of noise about that. this was a prepared statement with a sign and then another prepared apology, and each one seemed to make the last one -- >> i can tell you, i'm traveling across the country, as you know, and i'm out there a lot. people are fed up with it quite frankly, republicans and democrats alike. they know this is a complex and important issue, health care. they're worried about the economy, how we emerge from it. whether we learned the lessons of it. they're worried about afghanistan.

it doesn't mean they don't like to have a robust and vigorous political debate and they aren't energized by having the kinds of exchanges that have always been part and parcel of american politics, but they feel left out of it when it goes to these lengths, i think. >> let me ask you to turn the page to foreign policy and the dilemma we've been talking about this morning with afghanistan. president obama had a big meeting yesterday. on the one hand, if he decides to pull back a little bit, he's seen perhaps as having lost the war. if he escalates there, puts more troops in, it becomes another decade long war and a long slog. how difficult is this spot for him? >> it's very difficult. and the problem is it's just not either/or. it's not just about adding more troops. the approach to afghanistan has to be organic. it's a military approach. soft power approach about what you do in the countryside to get people to think more about what we're attempting to do to help them, to make them responsible

for their own security. the whole issue about what the alliance stands for is in play here. you know, the germans have gone to ground. they're there, but they're not out fighting. and the brits have gone wobbly from a political point of view. they're fighting on the ground. the canadians are doing very well, i'm told. the polls are doing extremely well. the united arab emirates have a military presence in afghanistan, and all the analyst that's have looked at what they're doing say they're doing a good job. and then finally, we've placed a big marker on president karzai. and he seems to be in an olympic level contest with iran to see who could be more corrupt when it came to an election. you stole 100 million votes? i'll show you how to steal 200 million votes. >> it just complicates things. it really does. >> and that's not lost on the villagers. they're all out there, and they know it. want to hear the brokaw line for afghanistan? i think i'm going to unveil it here.

i haven't talked about it publicly before. you go to every warlords, and depending on their degree of power, you say to the war cls lords in the south depending where they control the territory. here's a zurich bank account that has $4 billion in your name. every time you screw up, we take $100 million away, and it would be cheaper. and let them be responsible for security in their area. we've talked at length about the history of afghanistan. it obviously can't revert to what it was, which is a base for al qaeda. everyone says, look, this is about the taliban. if the taliban get back in, al qaeda probably will be close behind. so it is a real dilemma, but it's not just our fight. it's the fight of the afghans, and it's also the fight of other targets, the western alliance and other interests around the world. most of all, i think we have to find a way beyond the military solution. to put it quite bluntly, you can't kill them all. you'll have to find new ways to get the villagers on the ground

to see that we're there to help them have a secure and productive future. >> before you go, i kind of -- completely different topic here. i'm curious. we've been having a conversation ongoing on this set about the roman polanski controversy, and what we're finding and what we're feeling is there's a hollywood version of opinions versus the rest of america. would you see that, given your ties to l.a. in the past and obviously your news judgment? do you see a disconnect there? >> oh, sure, i think there is a disconnect. look, there's an outstanding warrant for him. i think he should be brought back, and he can afford good lawyers. that's the nature of the judicial system we have in this country. i was living in los angeles when that all occurred and when he fled the country. it's a heinous case. but we do have a judicial system, and it ought to be even-handed even if you're a famous award-winning director.

at some point you've got to come back and face the music for the action that everyone agrees that he was guilty of. i mean, they had worked something out at the time in which he was going to spend less than two months in jail, and then when he saw that coming apart is when he fled the country. so i do think he should come back. can i say one more thing to pat, my old buddy? >> absolutely. pat and i have been having words today. >> our founding fathers wanted us to have freedom. so we have the right to choose to smoke. >> okay. >> but we also -- smoking has consequences beyond the individual, pat. it has enormous consequences for our health care system, in terms of how much is spent on lung cancer and secondary smoke and the causes of emphysema and all the diseases that come with it. every physician i know says, if they could do one thing in america to help improve health care, they would ban cigarettes. we have a freedom to get drunk and drive. we pass laws against that. >> what about obesity, tom?

>> thank you, maria. >> we're beginning to crack down on that. >> would you ban all smoking? >> i would not ban all smoking, but i am a crusader about it. i've lost enough friends to lung cancer. >> we all have. that's right. >> and i go around, and jamie rubin was my last case. i got on his case here six months ago. he told me now that he's quit. it's because it's so painful to see people go through this. i know what it does to like to where there's smoking going on. and so i would make it just as difficult as i possibly can and what always makes me a little bit crazy, i'm out in montana or the west somewhere, and i'm at the town pump, a gas station and store. a guy i know is not making a lot of money is in there and he's paying eight bucks for a pack. i want to put my hand out say don't go there. >> probably say cut the price for me, would you, tom. >> may take the question further. what about in the military?

>> what about in the military, stopping smoking. i would do it there, and the other thing, don't get me started on this stuff. >> greatest generation, we used to send lucky strikes to our boys abroad. >> they smoked. every picture that you see they are all on a cigarette. >> i feel like hugging him. >> i will say in our generation, tom, smoking has been so marginalized, people in glass enclosure, it's going to phase out. >> you think how dignified do you feel? i want to open the door and say -- >> tom brokaw. >> i smoked for ten years. >> thank you very much for saying that because i'm like the -- i'm the leper on the set. yes, i am. and the obesity police. up next "morning joe" has an exclusive look at the cover of "time" magazine with rick stengel.

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♪ welcome back to "morning joe." just a minute before the top of the hour. 8:00 on the east coast. and you're looking live at l.a., let's take it to las vegas now

where willy wishes he could be. from there we go to milwaukee. very healthy polish population in that city. now to washington, d.c., and then ultimately rounding out our swing across the country, right here in new york city. welcome back everyone. i'm mika brzezinski. joe scarborough recovering from surgery but will be back soon. joining me is maria bartiromo, tom brokaw, rick stengel going to show us the cover of "time" magazine. and lawrence o'donnell as well. we'll talk about health care and foreign policy with these gentlemen in a moment. first, it's time for a look at some today's top stories. three earthquakes in two separate parts of the world are blamed for the deaths of hundreds of people. at least 529 people were killed in indonesia following yesterday's quake and today's aftershock. thousands struggle in the wake of 20-foot tsunami waves in the samoan islands. american families living in the

region. speaking to pakistani media today a u.s. official said osama bin laden is alive and hiding in pakistan. the official who serves as the u.s. pakistan deputy head of missions claimed the alquaed leader is hiding in the southwest part of the country. and ken lewis of bank of america is planning to step down by the end of this year. lewis continues to face intense criticism after the bank agreed to buy merrill lynch in the economic crisis last year. bank of america executives admit they knew merrill was paying out billions in bonuses while asking for more government bailout. before we get to rick stengel and the cover of "time," maria, ken, big surprise and what's the dynamic? >> i think there's a debate out there about what went down one year ago. you know, you had ken lewis for a long time wanting to acquire merrill lynch. he wanted to expand bank of america and own the brokerage.

but during that fateful weekend of september 15th when everybody felt that the financial system really was teetering, he had an opportunity to go in, acquire merrill lynch. he paid a premium. the next day everybody including me were questioning why he was paying such a premium to where the stock was trading. it became clear he wanted to acquire the business and thought it was an opportunity, but at the same time he had regulators pushing his hand saying look, this is probably on one hand a duty, bank of america coming in, and almost acting as a savior saving the system by acquiring merrill and not allowing it to go the way of lehman brothers. then fast forward a couple of months to early december. ken lewis goes to regulators. hank paulson says look, i want to call a change in the market place. i didn't realize there were losses out of merrill lynch that there are and i'm considering stepping away from this deal, not acquiring it.

and then hank paulson etal saying if you step away it's going to seriously affect the financial system, don't walk away, do the deal. and by the way, don't discuss how bad the losses are. so, he goes forward, acquires the company, then we find out about the bonuses, we find out how bad the bloodshed was in terms of losses and he's blamed. i think it's debatable if he's the only guy to blame for this. and i think it's debatable whether or not he should be getting pushed out. now, he has said he's not being pushed out, regulators said we have not asked him to step down but at the same time there's a lot of mud slinging. i'm sure he got tired of having to answer all of these questions. >> why under that circumstance couldn't he have gotten a better price? >> well, i think if you waited until after the market -- remember the weekends in september, they wanted to get news out before the asian markets opened on sunday night

because once the asian markets opened and then monday morning wall street opened, the damage would have been done so. if they didn't get the announcement out in a timely fashion it would have plummeted and possibly affected the system. yeah, he would have got an better price but what would that have done to the whole system. that's the argument. i agree he overpaid for merrill lynch. >> i want to bring tom brokaw in. with that we unveil the cover of "time" magazine. rick stengel is here to unveil that for us. what have we got? >> what we have is talking about a lot this morning, the war in afghanistan, the war up close. it is a fantastic intimate photo essay by adam ferguson of soldiers on the ground. one of the things i fete strongly about, while people are discussing the war over the next few weeks and while president obama is making decisions, what i wanted to do is take people right up there and make them see what it was like, what it was like for american soldiers, what it was like on a daily basis.

we also have a pro and con, from les gelman, whether the war should be escalated, whether we should be sending 40,000 more troops as some say or should be pulling back. it's an interesting discussion. i mean, tom was talking about it earlier. it's not a zero sum discussion. nobody is saying we've got to get out completely. but there are two schools of thought about whether afghanistan can actually -- whether you can do nation building in afghanistan. or whether -- >> the general is asking for. >> we have gone to counterinsurgency. with every passing month we are more deeply involved in the country and what we're doing now in the outlying areas especially is in the form of nation building. i think probably reduce it, it's village building or region building. >> justice system building. >> we do have ever larger investment across the board if not a military exercise. >> peter makes the argument, you

were talking about it earlier, that there are a lot of misnomers and misconceptions about afghanistan. he says that the central government can be made stronger, that the nation isn't as disparate as we thought. and that the other thing is that the afghanistan people actually like us being there. i mean, there was a recent poll there that showed that the u.s. is popular there. unlike, for example, in next door pakistan eighty we're unpopular. >> but lawrence, take it to tom, it's a government, though, that we've kind of lost our footing with in terms of trust, have we not? >> look. i have no idea. i'm not one of the people that comes on and pretends he has the slightest idea what to do next in afghanistan. i'm with the majority of american who is humbly watch and glad we have nothing to do with the decision-making. i haven't heard anybody say anything convincing in the history of that conflict about what to do next month. so, and it turns out no one has

ever been right what to do next. >> you bring up a great point. tom brokaw, isn't that the ultimate issue, whatever the president decides, it's not going to be the best decision, it's not going to be a pretty decision, it's not going to be an easy one. >> i don't know what the end game is. i think that's part of the problem. what are we trying to achieve here? >> it's colin powell who said all along we need to have a mission strategy. and that has never been enunciated though again, the president has enunciated a strategy which is he doesn't want it to be a place, for al qaeda and terrorists. i think we can agree. the question is in order to achieve that do you have to build a functioning state there or not. les gel argues no, we don't. not have it a functioning state, we have 60,000 or 70,000 american soldiers there that builds up the afghanistan army and keeps it from being a haven for al qaeda. >> you also have, and then i want to get to the health care debate, you have joe klein has a

piece, i guess on -- yes, with mahmoud ahmadinejad. >> we interviewed him last friday. and i don't know if you saw the tape which is pretty fantastic. we asked him, i asked him about president obama's speech that day. basically accusing him of having a nuclear facility that had not been reported to the iaea. >> this was coming out. >> that was -- it seemed -- >> the real headline was his apparent cluelessness. >> yeah. and he did that saying -- >> that must have been fun. come on. that was fun. >> in life and journalism there are almost no perry mason moments. that you're going to ask somebody something that they don'ts know or my god, is that true. and that actually happened that morning. and what he did was he -- instead of saying i'll watch the speech. he said if obama is going to say that he is sadly mistaken.

>> meeting with six major nations including the u.s. right now tom brokaw, the issues at stake as the president also tries to make his way through that crisis. >> i was watching jim web over the weekend on "meet the press." i thought he introduced something that has not gotten enough attention. is where is china in this. we're all talking about the west and -- but china is the big player not at the table, they are a big trading partner, they have influence there. and this is one more example in my judgment of where china has to join the community of nations. north korea is another example of that but iran especially is, to have it stand by, continue to do commercial trade with iran, to have a continuing relationship with it and not have any influence or anything to say about whether iran is going to develop a nuclear weapon, you know, it's time for us to be able to pull them in. >> but it's also -- >> we don't have much leverage.

>> but it's very obvious we had no leverage with china either when we opened our relationship with china. we were not heavy on demand when's we opened the relationship with china. we were coming to say hello and start the conversation and nixon and everyone following nixon was absolutely willing to tolerate bad behavior by china on a monthly or daily basis and look beyond it to the larger goal. and with iran we're saying you have to be a good boy on day one or we won't talk to you on day two and day two will never come. >> that's an interesting point. >> we have leverage with russia now on iran because of what we did with the missiles in eastern europe. we don't have leverage with china. >> i see in this week's issue of "time" you have a piece on health care reform. and that's the other debate this morning. we were showing tom the clips of congressman grayson and his first comments which was the republicans want you to die quickly, then his apology which involved the word holocaust. we're not going to replay them. lawrence o'donnell, you really

keyed tine the health care debate and how these things pan out. is the kind of shrill rhetoric getting in the way of anything happening? >> no, i think it's very helpful to moving the legislation and here's why. >> okay. >> i was down there yesterday in the senate finance committee markup. and nobody's covering what happened in the senate finance committee markup yesterday. no one covered anything that happened in the ways and means committee markup which lasted quite a while and created three new top tax brackets which america doesn't know about. the reason those things rints covered is screaming about death panels, yelling you lie, and this stuff. this stuff is wonderfully diversionary and so the whole country has no idea. for example, what the -- what half this legislation is. and half this legislation is a very big tax bill, a very big tax bill. new forms of taxation that are being invented have never been used before, nobody's talking about it because of this. it's very helpful to the

democrats and very helpful to legislating, the more shows like this spend time on nonsense like that -- i want to -- no, i want to -- do your homework. for example, last week in a retaliation toward china, we put a 35% tax, we call them tariffs, but a 35% texas on chinese tires. in other words, a punitive tax for their behavior. we're putting in the bill the judged put a 35% tax on health insurance plans that are worth more than $8,000 to an individual. now that's an awful lot of health insurance plan. when you do that 35% tax the only thing for the insurance company to do is to reduce the benefits by 35%. this is a very serious issue. and it's one -- it's used to finance about one third of the finance committee bill. we're from a fourth to a third. it gets no discussion.

and no amplification. >> discussion about the tax on those premium plans. >> really? >> you and i talked about. >> nothing compared to you lie, nothing compared to this stuff. >> tom brokaw, lawrence didn't have to hold up a sign that said die quickly to get us to listen to him, did he? >> no. but to just back off for a moment. whether we're talking about the food fight that is going on or the details of lawrence is talking about now, the american people, again, are feeling left out of all of this. it is so complex for them, when 50% say they don't understand what the debate is about, i think that's wrong by half, i think it's 100%. >> i can't find a single citizen that can tell me what they think it is. >> the fault of people who are not giving the details about what they will look like. >> first of all there are a lot of parts to these systems in play in the house and in the senate and in the committees. and it's -- i'm dialed in and

i'm having a hard time every day kind of keeping up to speed on it. i'm talking to the principals, but at the same time it shifts and changes every day. and there are a couple of issues i think have been lost in all of this about what are -- again, what is the end game, what are we going to end up with. besides the fact we're going to get more people who are going to have some form of coverage, what are they going to get for the coverage. one of the issues now is that we pay primarily for tests. and we have a very inefficient system in terms of what we pay for for those who do have coverage. are we going to have a system that's going to pay for value for performance, are you going to have coverage that's going to take that you go to a doctor and he doesn't order up tests but that they say or she says this is going to make you better or you're not going to have to pay for it. these are the debates. >> the problem is this legislation is the afghanistan of legislation. >> that's great. >> the smartest of them who can tell you what the final bill

might look like. so they don't even know the target they are legislating toward. they can't describe it. >> why do you think that is? >> because the subject is far too complex. and instead of compromises you have to make are endless. what you're compromising today you're going to comprise again ten times along the way and you won't recognize it at the end. >> listen. tom brokaw, thank you for staying. rick stengel, thank you. great cover. lawrence o'donnell, are you staying? you're staying, good. coming up mort zuckerman, and ken lewis. are republicans using karl rove's play book to kill health care reform. we'll talk to lawrence about that. tim dickenson explain what is he call as secret campaign. we're also getting major economic data in including weekly jobless numbers. the latest from erin burnett. first a check on the weather with ginger zee from wmaq in

chicago. >> pleeka, strong storms moving through parts of the great lakes, also the plains states. we'll watch those. in the northeast, one little delay to report at dulles. 30 minutes. looking at the weather you'll have another fall-like day, 64 in new york, partly to mostly cloudy. 68 in washington. plenty of sunshine there. a quick look at the national forecast, you are watching "morning joe" brewed by starbucks. music plays

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>> no more lies. >> what are you going to do to

restore this country back to what our founders created according to the constitution? >> i'm not a lobbyist with all kind of money. stuff it in your pocket. >> wow. here with us now is editor in chief of "u.s. news and world report" and chairman an copublisher of the new york daily news, mort zuckerman and for rolling stone magazine, an author of the political blog tim dickenson. in the october 1 issue he explores how the rage over health care reform got started. he says this. quote, far from representing a spontaneous upwellingp populous rage the protests were orchestrated by the top down by front groups and lobbyists for the health care industry. call it the return of camp rove's play book. the effort to mobilize the

angriest fringe with a dream team. tim, is that true? explain. maybe not. there we go. go ahead. your mike wasn't working so start again. >> sorry. i said let's name names. we had dick armey's freedom works, tim phillips americans for prosperity, rick scotts for patients rights. he was aided by the pr firm that helped swift boat john kerry. these working in conjunction with -- >> these people, these people in these screaming thing, they were orchestrated and hired and working for someone? >> no. i'm saying that this is an effort that was directed by these groups, they work through a subordinate of freedom works. you have tea party patriots. they put out calls to activists to go to, for instance t town

hall rally with kathleen sebelius and arlen specter that turned into quite a riot and then an aftermath e-mail that says great work, keep up the action. they distribute add memo that talked about how to rock the town halls that described how 30 or 40 people could take over a town hall and appear to be taking you know, appear to be a much larger presence than they were. >> interesting. lawrence o'donnell is here. >> what difference should it make to us in the way we read these events? whether these protests were spontaneous or organized in the way that you describe? >> i mean, it should make all the difference in the world. the question is whether people are coming to these things spontaneously or whether they are directed by groups that take money from the largest health insurers and oil firms. >> so basically what you're saying these guys in baseball hat who is look like truck drivers are functioning by extension as high-priced

lobbyists, i mean voluntarily but being activated through that mechanism and therefore there's this kind of -- this lie being told to the american public there is a grassroots uprising. >> you need to start with the lie being told in may which is that democrats plan, whatever it was going to be was going to be a washington takeover of health care which was frank who worked on the contract with newt gingrich working backward. what is the scariest thing we can tell people this is. whatever plan it's going to be what is the scariest thing we can tell them. it's a washington takeover of health care. what's the scariest component of that washington takeover, well, it's that people are going to -- government bureaucrats are going to stand in the way of you and your doctor making the best decisions about your health. then you have betsy mccoy taking that and spinning it to this wild death panel conclusion saying that government bureaucrats are going to sit there and tell your grandmother when to die. >> pat buchanan. >> look. excuse me, if i find this

noncredibl noncredible. you had tens of thousands of people, hundreds of town halls, the idea that dick armey can organize that for d.c. or a bunch of lobbyists that can't organize anything outside of k street can organize these all over the country when they couldn't do it for john mccain's campaign at all, it sounds to me just noncredible that it all had to be organized by a few people. >> well, i mean, they are working from a playbook pioneered by philip morris in the 90s to defeat the clinton health care plan. you had philip morris paying conservatives $400,000 to ginn up town hall opposition to the clinton plan because it was going to be funded by tobacco tax. who is working, citizen foss for a sound economy now right? become freedom works and americans for prosperity. >> are you sure the liberal left didn't create the play book actually? this is what's happening on the other side, grass roots organizations, i mean who is

directing moveon.org? >> it's not washington lobbyists who are directing moveon.org. it's a different organization. >> with or without these people, don't you think there was a fundamental unease about the way this health care program was promoted? don't you think there was a fundamental concern among other things, not just of the role of government but of the cost of government at a time when the whole country was worried about their own debt and the debt of the country. i mean there is a deeper issue that everybody seems to have tapped into, surely could not be organized the way you're talking about. >> no, i'm saying that the conditions for organizing this are right because of that very fear and clearly the obama administration lost control of the message here. when you have experienced people, i mean, the republicans may be out of power as a party but there are operatives, the same people who led us into the iraq war on false information are still out there. these people didn't go away. so a lot of mature and powerful

in the republican party can deploy. i'm listening. >> congressman or a senator when he goes home to his district or a candidate goes out this, you know when there are a bunch of ringers in the hall and you know who they are. you don't pay attention. what has happened here is that the conservative and moderate wing of the democratic party has defected in mass almost from the public health option and from other parts of these bills because they have come back from meetings in their home districts realizing that in their home districts this bill has no popularity. it is 51-39 against nationally. you go to these conservative districts it's probably 2-1. karl rove can't do this. >> no, and jim demitt was on a phone call with rick scott and the tea party patriots talking how they were going to make health care obama's waterloo. how, they are going to deploy people at town halls and make

representatives scared to come back and vote against the people in september. that's exactly what we saw play out. this is something that also reaches into the highest levels of the republican party including the chairman -- >> they aren't that good. >> i want to say one thing. why does this remind me of the 92-year-old man who was sued in a paternity suit and said he was so proud he pleaded guilty. there really is a lot more here than what these people could possibly have accounted for. and i'm not saying that there wasn't an organized group, but the fundamental unease with this program is what has turned it around, not just what these people have done. they played a role. >> what happens when you have the majority leader of the republican party john boehner saying this is going to lead to government sponsored euthanasia. you had the top parties lying mam may on about the plan. people are upset. >> did they give consideration to not lying about the plan,

consideration to the strategic approach of going into the town meetings and talking about what's in the plan and saying isn't it really too risky to be adding to the cost of hiring a new employee in a recession, for example. i mean there is a long list of republican arguments against this bill on the substance of what's actually in the bill. and that by the way is what they did in 1994. they went after the substance of the bill. day in and day out and that's how they took it down. i'm wondering if when they were planning this attack did k any of them suggest attacking things that are actually in the legislation. >> if you go back and read frank lund's memo it's nothing about the substance. >> that's frank for you. >> uncomfortable with this being a right thing. >> this is 1992. remember the perot rallies. these came up from the grass roots. you had the largest uprising this summer i can think of since

the perot movement. i don't doubt peoplep tried to organize it, benefit from it. but this was genuine and authentic. that's why it worked. >> i think there is a little of everyone's right in here. tim, thank you for putting up with the rapid fire here, the machine gun interview. >> my pleasure. >> come back soon. thank you very much. coming up next, check on business before the bell with cnbc's erin burnett. national car rental knows i'm picky. so, at national, i go right past the counter... and you get to choose any car in the aisle. choose any car? you cannot be serious! okay. seriously, you choose. go national. go like a pro.

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welcome back to "morning joe." a beautiful morning, about 8:30 in new york city. let's check on business before the bell. down there on wall street with erin burnett. >> so, market's going to open lower, a little bit of a rocky start to the first day of the next quarter. but two things to watch today. bernanke is going to be testifying in fronts of barney frank's committee in washington. talking about regulation. it may make some people's eyes close but it is truly crucial for consumers and whether we're going to have another crisis. today starts at 9:00. we're going to cover it live. the other story is this.

mort, you cannot play in this. i'm letting you know. anyone on the set know the name of this guy? >> can't see it. >> pretty small for us. >> you can't see it. >> really beautiful. >> better say he's beautiful. you know what? hold on. you know what, he might soon be partners with that man. >> i get it. mr. comcast. >> that's right. >> brian roberts. >> yes. brian roberts. so look. comcast denies they are purchasing nbc universal. that means just 100% of it. they buy any percent shy of that. >> the value i think is on the order of $35 million. is that what i hear? >> that's right. even if they bought 50% it's $16 billion so -- >> there ought to be at least a bonus to all of the people here who made it what it is.

health i. we tried to get health insurance on our own, but was turned down every time because of pre-existing condition. last year i lost my wife to cancer. like all of this could have been prevented if we'd of had a simple thing called insurance it's just hard to swallow. to lose somebody like that new aches and pains,

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several republicans asked me to apologize. well, i would like to apologize. i would like to apologize to the dead. and here's why. according to this study, health insurance and mortality in u.s. adults published two weeks ago, 44,789 americans die every year because they have no health insurance. that is more than ten times the number of american who is died in the war in iraq, it's more than ten times the number of americans who died in 9/11. i apologize to the dead and their families that we haven't voted soon tear end this holocaust in america. >> okay. yes. we'll start with mort on that one. back to "morning joe." it's time for the "morning joe" political roundtable. i saw your mouth drop open as you listened to that. around the table we have pat buchanan, maria bartiromo, mort and lawrence o'donnell. we'll start with congressman

grayson. the comments, his apology in light of what he said the day before where he held up a sign and said the republican plan wants you to die quickly. that's what it means. he was asked to apologize and that's what we got. mort. >> i must say to you, there are times in america where the political dialogue gets to be so downgraded by the way our political leadership speaks that it dismays and make you feel uncomfortable, even dirty when you have to listen. to use words like holocaust, to accuse people of producing deliberately almost the death of people is an outrage in terms of the way people talk. there has to be a better way. it demoralizes the country and confuses the issue. it's awful. >> i know many who were on both sides of the aisle who criticized george bush for his -- the words he chose to use on the world stage, the words that he chose to use when dealing with foreign policy, ax

i is of evil and others that took us in a direction some were uncomfortable with in terms of our standing in the world. i would say this is equally as important the way we conduct ourselves in a conversation and using words like holocaust and nazi and evil and pulling the plug -- whatever. it's on both sides, lawrence o'nonle. you have a different take. >> how do you know? i haven't said a word. >> pat can tell. >> he's giving me -- >> i do. look, do we at this table accept this study that says that 44,000 people a year die from not having health insurance? if we do, if we do, and the congress seems to accept it, there seems to be one party that wants to do something about that and another party that doesn't want to do anything about it. and i think that's what grayson is saying that there is a party

that wants to do something about these people dying because they don't have health insurance and there's another party that truly, in its entire history, has never once proposed doing anything about people dying because they don't have health insurance. that seems like a pretty clear thing that he says. >> you know, i talk to my doctors, the head of the washington medical association, he is explaining to me all of the republican programs, their ideas, they don't get a hearing. i think the republicans have ideas. i think this word holocaust is going to come back to bite this guy and he will apologize for that. however, what he is saying there, what he is doing, he is in trouble politically and decided to go high and loud and rally his base. >> had the floor for 60 seconds to describe what republicans would do for a family of four with a $32,000 income, for example, to provide health insurance for them. what's the republican idea? >> i think what you do is you would provide people that don't have any kind of health insurance, you would provide

once they get a certain level you would provide them i think provide them with the care. >> and raise the money with what tax? >> you know, what do we do with medicaid? we spend in deficit. i would have that idea that nobody goes without care. and they don't in this country. as you know they go into clinics or other places, they have care. it's how we're going to pay for it. that is what this argument is about. >> do we really know that the liberal democratic side of this debate has the money and will come up with the money without raising taxes even further? >> no. >> they raise a lot of taxes. >> hearing that out of the leadership. >> willing to raise taxes to pay for what they want to do. republicans say things like -- yeah, we could maybe provide for them but no republican will ever vote for the money to provide for health insurance for anyone. >> what about -- >> care is being provided.

who is paying for it? go to california. the illegal aliens walk into clinics and get care, they come into the country, and hospitals, they have to help them, have their babies. it's required that they do this. we're all paying for it. we're deciding now not that whether people are denied care but how it's going to be paid for, and they don't like this idea and the country doesn't like it and the more they hear of it the less they like it. >> and if i may say, the issue is how we are going to pay for it and both parties, frankly, do not face up to -- take the democratic party and the issue of the control of the legal costs, unnecessary legal costs that are involved in the way that the trial lawyers are protected by the refusal to set up a medical court so you know, who knows from 10 to 18% of a health care cost go to legal fees or defensive medicine. i've seen -- just let me finish. let me finish. let me just finish.

i'm sorry. the defense, it's not -- the point, there is a portion that goes to malpractice, another portion that goes in for something called defensive medicine where doctors are trying to protect themselves. that's what i'm saying. i -- and they will not -- >> democrats will not go after the trial lawyers on this. you know it and we know it. >> tort reform. you dismiss it because that's a republican idea for saving money and putting it in the pool. >> how are they going to pay for health care then? the president said -- the president said -- >> they told you there are several tax regimes in the bill. the senate finance committee bill not only pays for it in ways you digs spice but reduces the deficit. you have to look at what those are. they will tax medical equipment, pharmaceuticals, health insurance, cut medicaid. medication i'm sorry. >> everybody taxes are going up, not just people who are making

$350 thoutz $250,000 a year, maybe they should tell everybody. everybody's going to pay. >> it's all there. max baucus revealed it for weeks. no one is covering how they are paying for it. >> why do you think the support is down in the 30s. >> because the public realize, it's complex, they have a feeling they might lose something in the process and many of them are right. they will lose something in the process. but other people will gain. >> when the president says that waste, fraud and abuse, $650 billion, that's two thirds it's nonsense. but that's what he said. >> we leave it there. i like to make a note to congress and any shrill commentators while nobody used the word holocaust, nobody threatened and nobody said the word evil. i congratulate you. that's what we're about. up next author and former intelligence officer howard clark tells you how you can kill al qaeda in three easy steps next on "morning joe."

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i think the president believes that -- believes strongly that the -- still key to our national security.

that we have to disrupt, dismantle and destroy al qaeda. and its allies. >> that's a justification in afghanistan and here with us former marine corps and former department of -- howard clark, the author of "how you can kill al qaeda in three easy steps." who knew it was that easy. >> keep a straight face when you read that. >> good morning, howard. >> good morning. >> we're doing great. we're leafing through the book. we didn't know it was that easy. this is like the darkest self help book of all time. tell us about the three easy steps. >> i really appreciate this. i've seen the conflict from many angles as you said in your kind introduction. i've been a marine on the ground in iraq, a senior intelligence officer in homeland security, i was on the white house during / 9/11 and i'm a student of islam and arabic at yale and cairo. the last decade has taught me that the u.s. government is incapable of defeating al qaeda.

but people can. so my book is a pop yulst to en al qaeda forever. my goal, the goal of the three steps is to drive a wedge between al qaeda and any muslim communities that might provide them with support. basically i want to isolate al qaeda so that they wither and die. talking about -- >> the three steps, walk us through to kill al qaeda. one, identify counter al qaeda messages, two, translate messages into multiple languages, three, disseminate information as widely as possible. we're talking about using the internet here. right? >> yeah. the reason i focus on the internet is that is al qaeda's life blood. that is their chosen battlefield with which they garner support and grow. the types of messages i show readers how to identify are messages that tell the stories

of the innocent victims, what i consider the true martyrs of terrorist attacks, i'm talking about the elderly, the women, the children, the handicapped, the innocents, and those that make up the vast majority of al qaeda's victims. not specifics but individual narratives. also messages that define al qaeda as unholy. that al qaeda, they aren't even muslims. they are an aberration. >> lawrence has a question. >> howard, you seem to say we can track al qaeda messages on our computers at home? how do we do that >> absolutely. that's not difficult to do but the important thing is how to counter those messages. al qaeda's messages are ubiquitous on the internet. al qaeda in many ways has mon open you litzed the jihadist ideology on line. what we don't have we don't have an ability today to counter

those messages. >> don't we have to get al qaeda's mailing list to counter the messages to send ours to the same people? >> absolutely not. what i'm not going after is i'm not going after the hardened militants. when wim talking about al qaeda it's important to understand i'm not talking about just those leaders that are hiding like cowards in caves in western pakistan. i'm talking about those they inspire, the growing franchises in north africa, the arabian peninsula, europe. south asia. even individuals in this country. so i'm going after, i want to prevent young people from joining al qaeda and i want to turn the apathy in some muslim communities into hatred. >> let me interrupt you there. you seem to say if the people in the arab and muslim world know who al qaeda is really, what al qaeda does all its horrors and the rest of it they will not be able to recruit. but then you contradict yourself it seems when you say they seem to be gathering recruits from all across arab world from the

magreb to malaysia. >> al qaeda's violence, their unholiness, their inability to succeed. that's the third message i was going to get to which is al qaeda is physically unable to defeat the united states. and if this message is driven again and again into the mind of muslims all over the world, they are less likely to join or support a group that's destined to fail. so that's -- you get to the heart of the issue. i'm not contradicting myself. what i'm saying is that they are able to grow and we need to stop that growth. right now they monopolized the internet. we need create valid counter voices. >> it's an interesting approach. we'll get lawrence o'donnell on that list. talk offline. the book is "how you can kill al qaeda in three easy steps." coming up next, what if anything did we learn today?

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time now to talk about what we learned. boy, did i learn something. willy. >> i learned that pat's favorite miss sarah palin is number one on amazon.com but is about to get a run for her money. kill al qaeda in three easy steps. >> i learned that alan grayson is going to have a tough time getting