>> i'm still learning how to kill al qaeda. it's pretty good. >> i thought it was bad that my husband bought the kids snuggies until i heard that dylan bought the upside-down tomato growing -- what's wrong with you. you're an idiot. i don't want to hear more. >> another half a million caught. it was improving there. but it looks like we're going backwards. >> i learned how -- the problem for al qaeda. >> very good. if it's way too early. >> it is "morning joe" and right now time for the "morning meeting with dylan ratigan." if you get sick america, the republican health care plan is this. die quickly. that's right. the republicans want you to die quickly if you get sick. >> when submit ball fighting goes too far. congressman alan grayson standing by his rhetoric, a blog

calling for an obama coup and a "new york times" op-ed says the president is at risk of assassination. is the health care fight sending us and is anybody in congress working to provide cheaper better health care for anybody. also, the head of u.s. and nato forces in afghanistan speaking up with a blunt assessment of the war. general mcchrystal says neither success nor failure can be taken for granted. what's the best way to protect america from terrorism. meanwhile, south asia rocked again by mother nature. indonesia at least 530 lost after aftershocks of a terrible quake. in samoa it could take weeks to account for the missing many fear swept out to saext a controversy over president obama's trip. the first sitting president to make such a push for the games. we're breaking down the pros and cons.

9:00 a.m., pull up a chair and join the "morning meeting." welcome to the program. good morning. lawmakers seem more intent on firing rhetorical bullets than hashing out a solution to our problems. monica has the morning reporting. >> good to be with you. seems every day we're seeing more of the harsh language that distracts from issues. the latest by florida democratic congressman grayson warns that republicans want sick people to die quickly. he's standing his ground offering what some call a non-apology and following that up with more heated rhetoric on rachel madow's show last night. >> i apologize to the dead and their families that we haven't voted sooner to end this holocaust in america. >> this taps off -- >> we're dealing with people who are unscrupulous.

these are foot dragging, knuckle dragging neanderthals who know nothing but no. one way or another we have to overcome it for the sake of the nation. >> this caps off debate over health care that many worry is going too far. remember congressman joe wilson's you lie and you have arizona republican frank calling the president quote an enemy of humanity for his views on abortion. then tuesday, conservative magazine publishing a column suggesting a peaceful military coup might be the way to save the country from obama's radical ideas. that column was taken down. could anyone go farther? over at facebook a poll went up asking people to weigh in on whether president obama should be assassinated. new york times op-ed columnist wrote even if you're not worried that someone might draw from these attacks a license to try to hurt the president, you have to worry what is happening to american politics.

it makes me wonder whether we can seriously discuss serious issues and make decisions on the bases of the national interest. the head of the rnc had a response. called friedman a nut job. tom brokaw said he's never seen anything like it. >> at the height of the watergate crisis, we didn't hear language like that in the house. i mean, it was pretty well organized and a systematic way, the house judiciary committee had the impeachment hearings, the urban committee. but i don't remember that kind of language leveled at the president or from your side leveled at the people who were being critical. >> on that note i'll send it back to you. >> thank you. joining us now is dan, former foreign policy adviser under george w. bush, a senior fellow for middle eastern studies, also with us democratic strategist karen finney saw these attacks.

her recent article says it's time for all of us the media, the public, politicians, to step up and demand this rhetoric stop. karen, i'm watching this. again i'm new to the policy conversation. i'm new. >> if only it was a policy conversation. >> i look at this and think okay, we're trying to figure out how to get the best possible health care to the largest number of people that has the most choice and freedom. that was maybe my stupidity since we're going to pay a few trillion. so i look and okay, who's on the hook. the taxpayer is going to be forced to put some of this in. you want the best for patients and doctors. that's where your attention should be, i would imagine. what it seems the only attention is unions, employers and politicians trying to figure out what to do with the money and at the expense of taxpayer, patients and doctors. >> look. i think what the grayson stuff represents is the back and forth and the fighting, the pettiness

that goes on, the republicans want to have a resolution sanctioning grayson because the democrats had a resolution sanctioning wilson, you know they get so caught up in this back and forth. you're right, i thought we were supposed to talk about health care. but i guess we'll put that aside and work out our petty grudges. you know, but i do want to say from the piece that i wrote yesterday for huffington post, there is a sort of sublife culture in our national discourse and politics that has gotten particularly harsh. i think the problem is it does take us away from the conversation that we need to be having on the policy front whether it's health care, afghanistan, iran, you know at the end of the day this should be about america, not about a particular ideology. >> is the problem that the rules are for sale. as long as the rules are for sale to a special interest you're never going to get a decent outcome. >> no, i think the issue is nothing new. you have extremists on both

sides who can capture a lot of attention by saying outrageous things. as karen said she was in the clinton administration, people on my side of the aisle accused bill clinton of being a murderer when vince foster committed suicide. you've seen it in the bush years where there was a movie produced called "the death of a president" that fantasized about the assassination of president bush. there was an article declaring bush's illegitimacy. this goes on on both sides. >> pictures of bush with the devil. we'll go all day with this. what strikes me, this is all these people know how to do, that they do not have the capability to solve a complicated problem in a simple way, either side. >> i think that may be true. the bigger problem is these voices have more platforms to communicate on than in the past. so when karen was dealing with clinton and the outrageous charges against clinton, the internet was not flying like it was, cable news isn't what it

is. the blog sphere. i think there are many more platforms. >> go ahead. >> i was going to say dan is right thank god we didn't have the blog is sphere. we had enough during the clinton administration and a lot of good people innocent got -- had legal bills and got tied up. again, there is this back and forth that goes on and the policy gets lost in the politics. which is it's like we need a cease-fire and come back to the table and remember we're supposed to try to pass good health care reform about i don't know, patients. and people. >> and talk to the doctors about the current debate. they'll talk your ear off. as long as the unions and the employers and the politicians get what they want, to hell with everybody else as far as i can tell. isn't that -- that's the new way, right? >> i mean -- >> let them die. let our soldiers die, the patients die, the doctors quit, as long as the unions, employers and politicians get their way we'll be fine. >> the special interests have platform like the extreme

elements that they didn't have many years ago. i would say this. those people were getting short-term pops by saying extremist things. >> wilson, you pick them. >> the candidates who build real careers in public life, they are the ones who can make a serious intellectual case either for or against the administration, over long and sustained period of time. not these 15 minutes of fame. >> karen. >> don't you think, i think it's becoming increasingly difficult for good politicians to actually, as you said dan, build a career in public life because one way or the other they get dragged into this sort of back and forth and these petty politics, makes it more difficult frankly for good people that don't want to get in because they see this back and forth an think i want to change policy. i don't want to go there to fight. >> i agree. disheartening but i believe -- you know, listen. i actually am hopeful. i think dan is right and i actually think that after all of

this is done there are more people that are intelligent enough to solve these problems than not. monica, what's going on in the world? >> we're going to start in switzerland. the united states and the u.n. security counsell in talks demanding a halt to the nuclear program. ollie is live in tehran. what's the reaction there to today's talks? >> reporter: there's a lot of posturing from both sides. the iranians have got in on one side saying that the newly discovered, that they don't want to discuss the nuclear program, the head of iran's atomic energy organization said yesterday that iran wouldn't abandon its nuclear activities even for a second. so the expectations on this meeting are going to be fairly low. i think what we're looking for is not so much for a breakthrough but to avoid a breakdown in talks. >> thank you. an update on the most wanted man, al qaeda mastermind osama

bin laden is alive and hiding in pakistan. nbc news says that word from a top pakistani official who made the announcement to local media this morning, in this news amid new reports from u.s. officials that al qaeda and taliban leaders have been masterminding attacks in afghanistan from across the border. the official claimed the taliban ruling council is hiding in the southwestern region of pakistan. a live report is coming up in a few minutes. a second earthquake hit indonesia on the heels of wednesday's tremor. the second quake had a preliminary magnitude of 6.8. officials say the death toll from the first quake reached more than 530 on the island of sumatra. there are report as there the seconds tremor badly damaged dozens of additional buildings. the death toll from that tsunami of so mo a is at least 150. the toll will rise as the rescue gets under waxt entire villages have been wiped out by waves

triggered by the strong earthquake and tsunami. there you go. terrible pictures. >> thank you, monica. getting started here. still to come, as you can see from the assessment those who read it that's as blunt as i know how to be. >> so, i would tell you that all of the interaction that i've had with my senior leadership has not only encouraged that, they demanded that. >> the head of u.s. and nato troops in afghanistan calls it as he sees it. we can't say we're winning, the insurgency is growing. what is the strategy for victory, what is the victory that we seek? are we nation building? are we protecting ourselves from terrorism? are we making ourselves a base adjacent to iran? i don't really know. we'll try to find out after this. gecko: uh, you wanted to see me sir? boss: come on in, i had some other things you can tell people about geico -

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stunning news out of pakistan. a top official saying that osama bin laden is alive and well and hiding in that country though i'm not certain that's stunning. this as the top commander in afghanistan general stanley mcchrystal arguing that the u.s. can't win the war by simply doing more of the same, instead says that the u.s. must realize that afghan support is the deciding factor. >> at the end of the day we don't win by destroying the taliban. we don't win by body count, we don't win by number of successful military raids or attacks. we win when the people decide we win. >> richard engel, nbc's chief correspondent live in kabul, afghanistan. near the people deciding that we might win, richard?

>> reporter: no. there is a major problem here. general mcchrystal wants to change the strategy, he wants it to be less about killing the taliban and more about convincing the people of afghanistan to join with the americans and to join with their own government. the problem is after eight years of war the americans haven't been able to do very much here. nato in general to convince the afghan people that they are going to win this war, and also the elections of late did not prove that this is a legitimate government. so, mcchrystal has a tough sell. he's trying to sell a policy that is not terribly successful militarily and election that many here believe was a sham. >> dan, you were so involved with a lot of the middle eastern engagement policy, is our current policy outdated? if we want to adapt ourselves what is the best value system to

use to do that? >> what worked, what didn't work in iraq in 2003 and 2004 when i was there, our strategy was enemy centric. going to the safe houses, trying to do search and destroy. and training iraqi security forces. we had nothing to do with the civilians. we told the iraqis we're not here to protect you. what changed in 2007 and 2008 was we shifted our strategy to actually focusing more on protecting the civilian population with the theory that if we demonstrate to the iraqis that we're serious about helping to protect them and secure their neighborhood, they will step up and cooperate with us along the lines. we've been making the same mistakes in afghanistan, it was all enemy centric, it wasn't focused on protecting the civilian population and when brave afghanis want to cooperate they and families get killed and we have been demonstrating that we'll be there, that we'll be more reliable than al qaeda and the taliban. >> i tell you i got your back

and you step forward and i'm nowhere to be found. >> and you lose the confidence in the families and the village. >> gordon goldstine also here. i want to talk about some of the comparisons here, the obvious one being in a foreign nation with a standing army against a guerrilla resistance. exit strategy, increase of resources, as opposed to definitive policy of terrorist operatives running around on bases or anything other than this nonsense. deteriorating support in the war zone and at home. political corruption impacts government. we saw what happened with the banks. now we want to trust them on the war. what is the one lesson now we can take from vietnam and apply immediately to what we're doing here so we do not go down this road again.

>> i think one of the lessons being tested is getting the strategy right this seems to be the inverse of what happened in 1965 when johnson convened his war counsel to decide if he would increase. >> you say it's the inverse. >> it's the inverse in the sense at that time we were arcing about a number and not a use and in this instance the president has convened a debate about what the strategy should be. and he's re-evaluating the strategy he implemented six months ago and testing the proposition whether counter insurgency in afghanistan in fact is a viable strategy. >> and dan, so let's go back to the mission statement. at least as i understand it which is to protect american and american interests from vulnerability to nuclear, chemical and biological deployment on our interests. how would you alter this policy or begin the conversation of updating this to better do that? >> first we need to prevent al qaeda and the taliban regaining a foothold in afghanistan. secondly we need to, if that

were to occur, it would threat at any stability of the neighboring governments bik pakistan that has nuclear weapons. the administration needs to explain those are a strategic objective. to do that we need the afghan population to work with us in helping to secure afghanistan. this point here is extremely important for the following reasons. >> reiterate the point. >> the point is that it's about strategy first, numbers second. figure out the strategy first, then calibrate -- >> the numbers after you know your plan. >> with the iraq surge people say it was throwing more troops at the problem. there was a strategic change made which is we're going to focus on protecting the civilian population. once president bush made that decision then it was how do we actually implement the resources to implement that and we need the troop levels to do that. i think there is a similar discussion going on. >> i want to bring scott wilson on. he can inform us, white house correspondent for "the washington post." scott, what can you tell us

about about the conversation that's happening at the white house relative to the conversation you heard here? >> the conversation i heard sounds similar to what is taking place in the white house. president obama yesterday began this strategy session by saying we're not going to talk about troop numbers, we're going to talk about the status of what is happening in afghanistan and then we will begin to talk about troop numbers down the line. but that is too early to talk about that given that we don't really know what our goals should be there at this point. is it counterterrorism, a narrow strategy with predator drones and special forces or is it something broader that is going to take more time and resources. >> scott, what is your understanding of the white house's definition of the mission, ranging from nation building in afghanistan to, again, ncb prevention here at the foothold in the middle east. how does the white house look at it? >> it's interesting. we heard in march from the

president on his new strategy for afghanistan and pakistan. which was expansive, comprehensive nation building in both countries. now we hear let's start essentially all over again, using the mcchrystal assessment which he said is what's needed to carry out the president's march vision. but now i think when you see how stark this assessment is, eight years and we're really in some ways below where we were when we began because we have resentments built up among the afghan population that we have to correct according to general mcchrystal. so i think -- >> i'll add to that, the point that dan made, and gordon made which is diminished credibility in the government in general by virtue of the track record of past decision-making. >> precisely. and the august elections. which are very problematic given that now the government is in question. so, they are really rethinking what is the goal and how best to achieve that.

>> i would say to gordon, i agree that spending a little time to do assessment is important. we have to be careful here. there is a risk at the same time that we're contemplating our government is contemplating what to do, we have been beating up our allies, nato allies to do more. for a war that is extremely unpopular in their countries. suddenly they look and say wait, you're locked up in "the situation room" because you're not even sure where this is going to go yet you're pressuring us to do more. there is a risk of losing the confidence of the allies in this deliberation. >> i would add to that point, dan. that if the mcchrystal report itself contain as huge amount of urgency. he's talking about 12 months being a decisive period. there is time for deliberation but there is an urgency that the general is expressing in the report. whether or not president obama feels that's undue pressure or that's something he has to respond to right away on the general's timeline remains to be

seen. >> for the president to hear quake mire and all of the language part of the vietnam war, that is exactly the road they do not want to be on. gordon, thank you. lessons and disasters. the path to war in vietnam. dan, a pleasure. thank you. be back soon. and scott wilson with us from "the washington post." straight ahead here on the "morning meeting," plugging into politics a little early, sarah palin burning up the bestseller list in her going rogue memoir has yet to hit the book shelves. even when he thought he might lose his job. he says he doesn't think about it much... but i don't believe him. i think he does it for us. sometimes doing the right thing is just making people happy.

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district, one of the political arms has endorsed this person as well. and so you've got red state bloggers are upset saying hey, why are we going with a.c.o.r.n. they have a third party guy doug hoffman. so that's where they should go. very upset. >> red state freedom works alliance. >> you're working on. let's go to palin. on politico, sarah palin two days after this book was announced, it's not on sale, it's number one on amazon.com and barnes and noble.com. log on and get your copy early. pointing 1.5 million for the first run. sarah palin tells a source tells politico she is grateful. >> they don't want to hear her. you can't book her but they'll buy the book. up next in the "morning meeting," the acorn as they say doesn't fall far from the tree.

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welcome back. 9:30. nice to see you.

the president heading to copenhagen to make his pitch for chicago to host the 2016 games, the first sitting president to make such a pitch. some republicans are criticizing him contending he should be focusing time on the economy, health care t war, you pick it. then overheated over health care, the senate finance committee getting back to work in an hour. the debate continues to get more tense. amendments on abortion and illegal immigrants have been shot down. so far no vote on free choice for everybody on our health care. will they indeed let the unions, employers and politicians prevent us, the taxpayers, to have the freedom we deserve to pick our own health care. we'll find out soon enough. ben bernanke on capitol hill, lawmakers are looking at ways to overhaul the financial system. bernanke fighting to protect his turf. while the debate continues the value of the u.s. currency continues to rot because the taxpayer and our currency has been stuck with all of the toxic liabilities created at the banks. and yet our politicians continue

to do nothing to reform the system. wall street closely watching what the fed chair has to say. of course the financial markets a great beneficiary of the taxpayer subsidizing of the system. a few trillion goes a long way. the much talked about bill to strip federal funding from a.c.o.r.n. may have a much larger effect. monica is here to explain. >> dylan, the house passed legislation to cut federal funding from the community group a.c.o.r.n. has been implicated in voter fraud, accused of offering advice on prostitution and tax evasion. it's not the only government contracted organization that has faced serious charges. the language in the house bill would strip funding from organizations that were indicted for breaking election laws, violating lobbying rules or committing regulatory fraud. on the face who is going to argue with that. well, except for if that is the case corpses like at&t,

glaxosmithkline would see their dollars cut off. >> the project on government oversight compile as list of five dozen companies directly impacted by this house bill as it stands. danielle bryant joins us from washington. also with us democratic strategist karen finney. danielle, are we actually moving to a place and i would say rightly so, a fair place where if you are defrauding the taxpayer for federal funding whether it's by way of some foolishness at a.c.o.r.n. or outrageousness at halliburton or' any place, the taxpayer may have recourse and penalty. >> isn't it fabulous we might see accountability with federal contractors. >> it would be bizarre. so walk us through where would the state of play and the effort to restore fairness in this country. >> what's happened is the house passed language that was not specific just to a.c.o.r.n. as you described it has one provision that said if you file

add false paper to a state or federal regulatory agency you would be cut off from federal funding that affects the defense industry t pharmaceutical industry, the oil and gas industry, it's really pretty extraordinary. on the senate side, though, they passed language that was specific to a.c.o.r.n. and all experts have looked that the said that that's probably unconstitutional. >> karen, again, you know better than anybody certainly in this conversation how much happens that we don't see and we have our way we'll see it all soon enough. we have the ability to. the internet exists. the skeletons will be seen. how is it that a piece of legislation that targets one organization defrauding the taxpayer even comes to exist when there's an opportunity for politicians to protect taxpayers from all organizations that would defraud us. >> you mean actually do their job and hold corporations accountable. >> anybody. >> yeah. how about that. wouldn't that be nice.

maybe we would get health care. >> what's the rest of the story? >> here's what's going on. this bill was passed, this is the kind of reactionary legislation that we see from time to time. there were allegations about a.c.o.r.n. some of which may be legitimate, it's still being investigated. that's a good thing. and in reaction to that, there is a sort of political knee jerk that said we want to distance ourselves from a.c.o.r.n. so okay, we're going to pass this legislation. on the senate side they were trying to be specific and on the house side they caught themselves in their own game there by having such broader language. you know, actually i love that. i think that's good for them to, you know, good for them to have to take a step back and say wait, maybe we should think about these things before we take an action like this. >> sure. ultimately, danielle, what is the momentum under the legislation to protect taxpayers from any organization that would seek to steal our money or defraud us in some way, whether it's a.c.o.r.n. or halliburton? >> the great thing is this was something that was discussed in

the last congress, and at the time the chamber of commerce was all over it saying there is no way you can cut off funding because you've been violating crimes as federal contractor and those provisions died. so what ended up living through this congress and passing was a data base that you could keep track of misconduct but it wasn't going to be puck lick. that was as much as the congress wanted to do in terms of holding contractors accountable. now that they have done this i hope that we see the data base of misconduct be public and be part of the discussion when there's new contracts going to be funded. >> how could they keep it private? if in fact taxpayers are insane enough to continue to pay taxes into this government and this government is insane enough to continue to dole it out to the special interests that bribe them, there's a point where it's going to become a bit -- impossible, i would imagine, to hold these secrets and to maintain this outdated system that washington is desperately

clinging to. >> absolutely. i would bet you that the majority of americans don't realize that that legislation was passed last year that there is such a data base, therefore they don't even know to demand that they should have actess to it. >> i'm on two hours a day, i'm on wabc on sunday nights, check it out on the internet. you blog for the huffington post. there is enough way to get it. >> i'll put it out there. >> i think we should. and so my point is, people have to demand it. frankly. it's part of our job to hold these guys accountable. you're right. there should be absolutely no reason if it's our money, that we shouldn't be able to see how our money is being spent, misspent, mishandled, you know, what corporations are accessing federal dollars. again, our money. but again, let's remember that with the a.c.o.r.n. legislation, that was not the goal. initially of that piece of legislation. this could end up being a very positive outcome for the rest of us, but unfortunately that wasn't the goal when they actually passed this

legislation. >> they like to say in washington unintended consequences. maybe we had a surprise in the beneficial unintended consequence which is penalties for entities that defraud taxpayers out of their money as bizarre as that actually may be. danielle, thank you. karen, i'll talk to you soon. monica, what else is going on? >> we're going to look at video out of turkey right now. a student journalist throwing a shoe. a gesture of course we now know is an insult. you see the shoe hit another student in the head. security removed the shoe thrower from the hall as he yelled "imf, get out." michelle obama hoping to bring the summer olympics to chicago. mrs. obama is in copenhagen along with other chicago dignitaries lobbying members of the olympic commit. president obama makes his pitch later this evening. check out the cover of the

"chicago sun-times." the headline, oprah says if chicago gets the winning bid the party starts tomorrow. we'll have a live report in the next hour from copenhagen. senator max baucus says the health care bill could clear by the end of the week but it's not clear what we get. tempers are flaring and big amendments relating to the public option, abortion and illegal immigrants get shot down, that happened in recent days. the free choice act on deck and could be voted on today. we'll have a live report from capitol hill in our next hour. breaking news now on msnbc. a big boost in consumer spending, moments ago the commerce department reporting a 1.3% jump in consumer spending. that's the biggest in nearly eight years. spending got a jump start by the cash for clunkers program. on the job front, first time unemployment claims for newly laid off climbed more than expected up to 551,000 people. that's a new sign employers are reluctant to hire and the job market remains weak.

incredible video from new york. this good samaritan shown rescuing a 4-year-old boy, rescued him from a burning building t. the man gives onlookers the thumbs up. you'll see it. he has this child, dragging him down the stairs and gets the boy breathing after he drops him down there. the boy is now hospitalized and in stable condition. it's amazing. somebody is going to do an interview. he walks by and people say now you're a hero, you know he's going to say i was just doing what i do every day. what else could i have done. >> i was doing what i do. >> there you go. >> that's the key line. thank you. it strikes me, isn't it funny there is tensions to whether we'll be given free choice to participate in health care exchanges. crazy. it may not pass. there is a lot more coming up at the "morning meeting." right now, the u.s. and five world powers in high stakes talks over iran's nuclear program. and well they should be. what is iran's nuclear program,

what do we know about it and what will iran present when they meet with us synod a threat assessment here after this. ♪ kelly saunder's nature valley. ♪ the place that inspires her to go faster... ♪ and slower. ♪ elk mountains, colorado. where's yours? 100% natural nature valley granola bars. the taste nature intended.

good morning. high stakes talks under way in geneva with iran t. goal for iran to stop development of nuclear activities. andrea mitchell covering the talks just filed this report for us. >> reporter: the big news out of geneva so far is that the united states and iran sat down along the margins as they say, of these group meetings, for their first direct talks in 30 years. the first time that the u.s. and iran really had substantive talks, we don't know all the details but know that they had these meetings when they broke for lunch. this was something that the united states signaled yesterday as we've been reporting that they were prepared for. it wasn't clear that iran wanted

to engage and this is as they say, the first test of whether president obama's policy of diplomatic engagement will work. >> thank you. how far will u.s. and its allies go when it comes to diplomacy with iran, what is the real threat from iran? as opposed to the fear threat. let's bring in jim walsh and a research associate, also back with us karen finney. jim, easy to get afraid in a situation like this. it's also easy to be very ignorant and afraid in a situation like this. what do we know about iran and there are very aggressive points made earlier by scott ritter and glenn greenwald on this program that we had to be careful about the fear of what iran might do or our own nightmares and what the reality is what's going on in iran. >> i think you're right to want to measure this carefully. in the long term obviously a nuclear program in iran that

become as nuclear weapon would be a threat. and it's not to be taken lightly. we are not at that point yet. iran is enriching uranium. you cannot make a bomb with low enriched uranium. only with highly enriched uranium. if they keep on the present course they will get better and better at it, will acquire capability. the intelligence community thinks around 213, 2014, they might be in a position at that point if they are inclined, then to produce highly enriched uranium. this is serious, these talks are important, but it's not as if the world is about to end or anything -- or iran is going to pop up tomorrow with a nuclear weapon. >> what is the most intelligent response in your opinion to a country that clearly at the very least has an appetite for saber rattling relative to the west,

saber rattling as it pertains to israel and is willing to at least pursue the development of nuclear technology if for no reason to provoke and possibly with the intention to create highly enriched uranium though we don't know that. >> i think the proper response is to get them on a course where they end up someplace else. what do i mean. if you look at the history of the nuclear age there are a bunch of country, more than 20 that had a nuclear program but over time got derailed and gave up that option. iran according to leon panetta, the head of our intelligence said that iran has not made the decision to weaponize, not made the decision to become a nuclear weapon state, they are getting in a position to decide but they haven't decided. and until they decide it, our best course is through negotiation and other instruments to try to get them on a different path so that as with all of those other cases, ambitions fade and you end up

without a nuclear weapon. >> karen. >> you know dylan, i guess the question that i would have, guys, is you know, it's not just -- i mean, iran nuclear issue is related to israel and the broader middle east, is related to the pakistani/india nuclear issue, part of our whole afghanistan/pakistan issue. can we look at what the broader context of this is in terms of you know, the significance of talks in terms of how it relates to some of the other factors going on in the middle east. >> jim? >> yeah. karen, it's a great point. it speaks directly to what's happening in geneva. iran doesn't like be singled out and lectured to. they may deserve it but they don't like it. the way they want to talk about it is in a broader frame in terms of nonproliferation. obama raised the bar in his u.n. speech. he said the united states for the first time in a long time is going to take its responsibility seriously. we're going to cut back our

nuclear war heads, ban nuclear testing, try to get a treat tee stop production of bomb material so we're doing our part. in that context, the broader context of reducing nuclear weapons worldwide, let's talk about what we can do with israel, with iran, with other countries. that changes the frame and i think at least presents the possibility of a much more fruitful negotiation. >> jim, thank you very much for your analysis. karen, we'll talk to you again in a to you again in a second. we're headed to the break room and here toure's on deck. michelle obama stopping by to promote healthy eating. conan o'brien couldn't help making a joke out of it. we have it after this brief message. ♪

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welcome to the break room. toure is here. you know, i -- another dancing

show. i didn't realize that. and apparently somebody was getting naked on one of the other dancing shows. i also did not know that. with that, here is toure. >> the age of irreverence. days after the "f" bomb on nbc, fox gives you much more -- or i should say much less. "so you think you can dance" turned into "so you think you can strip" when a dancer, in excitement, fell to the floor and spread her legs to reveal -- i'm going to go joe wilson on fox and say "you lie!" >> brooke shields in the news. tape modern museum in london, removed a nude folder of 10-year-old brooke looking jonbenet ramsey-ish. it's not about the artist's

desire -- it's been displayed in america several times because we, in america, have no problem with 10-year-old nudes. >> i like the fact that our image for the tape was the cafe sign. oh, maybe i'll get a coffee. sarah palin, what's the deal? >> reportedly paid $7 million for her memoir "going rogue," and she wrote it in an outstanding two months. maybe because the type is as big as the top of the eye chart, maybe because her life isn't that complex. levi johnson says she loves to lay on the couch in her walmart pajamas. palin as author, of course, is comedy gold for david letterman. >> close curtains so you don't get distracted by russia. limit yourself to one you betcha per chapter. and number one, i'll try to find

ya some tips and i'll bring 'em to ya. >> a clip of michelle obama on "sesame street" even though it hasn't been aired yet. >> the first lady went on "sesame street." she was talking to kids about gardening and eating healthy thaemplt. it was all going very well, but then big bird showed up and things got a little uncomfortable. take a look. >> well, look who's here to push your husband's socialist health care agenda. >> hi, big bird. >> or maybe you're here to finally show us your husband's united states birth certificate. >> big bird, i'm not. >> and there's an unfortunate headline about michelle in "the new york times" today. what is this? in copenhagen, michelle obama gets busy? the president's not there. not a good look. what were we talking about? >> listen, it's nonsense.

if there's anybody we can trust in that country, it's that woman. >> absolutely. >> please. thank you. still ahead on "the morning meeting," obamas and oprah, a powerful combination in the bid to get 2016's olympic games to chicago. but are the president's priorities out of line as he joins the first lady in copenhagen tonight? is this the best use of our president's political and international capital, considering the list of issues we discuss every day? a debate on the president's role in winning the olympics for his hometown after this.

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should the president be lobbying for games for his hometown especially when there's so much going on here at home and, for that matter, in the middle east? marking up health care reform bill, we'll tell you what's up for debate and what's not. free choice, of course, remains a hostage in that committee. resolution revolution or say or do something wrong and the house will pass a resolution. we'll lay out several examples and figure out whether it's just something to talk about or part of a bigger trend. maybe all they can do is resolve to be mad at each other and not solve anybody's problems while they take lobbyists money. we'll separate the good rich, innovators and investors from the vampires who prey upon our society, to prance around as pretenderage, if you will. it's 10:00 am. pull up a chair and join the

"morning meeting." president obama going for the gold today. later this evening, the president is heading to denmark, where he will personally make a pitch for his hometown of chicago for the 2016 olympics. michelle obama and oprah winfrey are doing olympic glad handing of their own. hi, jim. >> reporter: hi, dylan. a very windy copenhagen. the race is on. oprah herself calls it a sprint to the finish lane. today first lady michelle obama spent most of her day inside her suites at the marriott hotel, trying to squeeze in as many voters as possible to give her pitch which in the simplest form is chicago wants these games, america wants them and needs them. my husband and i want them, and we can deliver. we can guarantee the best games ever. it's a very strong argument coming from a very persuasive

messenger. but at this point, it's not clear whether even that will sway enough votes in favor of chicago. that's how tight this race is between chicago, tokyo, rio and madrid. you alluded, however, to the game changer, arrival tomorrow morning of president barack obama, the first u.s. president ever to get involved in anything like this, putting his weight behind the chicago bid. however, that trip has already triggered some criticism back at home, especially among opposition politicians. here's what house minority leader john baynor had to say about his trip. >> i think it's a great idea to promote chicago, but he's the president of the united states, not the mayor of chicago. and the problems we have here at home affect all americans, and that's where his attention ought to be. >> in fact, dylan, all of the cities have their heavy hitters in town or are coming to town.

spain's king juan carlos, japanese prince prime minister, brazil's prime minister will be here, lobbying for olympic games. you and i know, there's only one oprah winfrey. fingers crossed. >> thank you, jim. should the president be doing this, particularly at this point in time in our country? our guests join the conversation. bob quelos doesn't want the olympics in his town, whether the president is there or not. a friend of the show all the same. journalist and commentator, stephen kerry finney. in-house smarty pants and nia malika, i will begin with you. how are the president's actions playing in washington? >> folks seem to think it's a

good idea. all these heads of states are going. it would look odd if our president wasn't there, pushing for the games. if he didn't go and chicago or the united states didn't get the games, there possibly would be fallout there. the argument here is the white house on monday, talking to michelle obama, her argument was you're darned if you do, you're darned if you don't in terms of going to the games and they would rather be on the side of doing. you'll see the president there. really michelle obama is taking the lead here. she's meeting with all these ioc folks and like your commentator said there, there's nobody bigger than oprah winfrey. i think the trip is nine hours one way. the presentation is about 45 minutes. he'll be speaking for about five minutes, and head back to washington on friday. >> as long as he works on health care and afghanistan on the plane, we'll be fine. bob, what's your issue with this? >> there are a lot of issues in chicago that need to be dealt with. i was at acommunity meeting this weekend. students were talking about the fact that they have school books

from 1986, a tram system that's crumbling, a budget deficit next year that will be worse than the budget deficit this year and olympics, we don't think, is the solution to this. >> doesn't have the olympics in your town fix a lot of these things? isn't it that it attracts the infrastructure investment in the train, in the city, all the things that you saw sort of come through atlanta, the pitch out of new york? why does that the -- why does not having the olympics solve that problem? >> it actually doesn't. if you look at past olympics, previous olympics have gone incredibly over-budget, left with buildings they can't use. vancouver 2010 winter games and they were told it doesn't cost them a dime in taxpayer money and now they're on the hook for $6 million. i don't think that's a chance chicago can take. if we're going to build trains and improve schools, we should put that money directly into those things and not take a chance on the olympics, only proven to be a disaster for host

cities. >> ten different ways to go with this. should the president be in copenhagen? is pitching for the olympics a way to create economic development even a rational argument? should we be talking about it on msnbc at all? >> yes to all three, dylan. the fact is that he is the president of the united states. he didn't forget his home base. he was a senator in chicago. that's the reality. never forget home. you always have to take care of your home base. that's what he's doing. it's politically ex-peedient for representative boehner to talk about he's the president of the united states. they're all fond of saying you can chew gum and walk at the same time. what's the problem? the reality is that you're talking about a potentially $13.7 billion benefit. los angeles, atlanta, salt lake city all made money off the olympics. and you know these guys -- this is chicago we're talking about here, filled with 3 million people and aabundance of corrupt

politicians. the reality is if there was not money to be made, they would not be doing it. oprah winfrey's involved, the president of the united states is involved. right there alone, you talk about potentially $6 billion in the red, i don't believe that's going to happen. number one, i don't believe those individuals would involve themselves in this if they thought that kind of fallout was going to take place. i say hey, the president did the right thing and i aapplaud it. >> karen, we'll put you on the airplane with the president. on the way to copenhagen, what do you tell him? >> the beauty of the air force one is that the president can actually get work done on air force one, as can the staff, having done it myself. i don't think that this president is going to take the time off while he's on the plane. i think he'll be able to focus on the issues. a couple of other points are really important about the olympics. bringing the olympics to the united states would be great for chicago and illinois. but also it stimulates tourism throughout the country.

remember, people come to the olympics, but while they're here, they say, hey, maybe i'll go visit los angeles, maybe i'll go visit st. louis. maybe i'll go visit new york. there's actually a broader benefit to the country. and wouldn't it be nice to be unified and thinking about all americans, one america, one team rooting for one thing? >> now you're just talking crazy. >> i know. i'm sorry. >> steve, i'll give you the last word. >> i wanted to add, also, you have trepidation on parts of others because they were talking about the teen violence. blew up a subway in madrid, killed approximately 200 people. let's not forget there pros and cons to everything, as it pertains to everybody. at the end of the day, this is the united states of america. it's considered to be the greatest country in the world. you know you're going to make money off doing this. you do it, period. >> that's it. thank you, steve, nia, karen and bob, thank you as well. first time in 30 years, u.s.

and iran have had face-to-face talks. in geneva, meeting with iran, urging it stop all nuclear activities. they had contact during the lunch break, and that was the first direct meeting since they severed ties during the 1979 hostage crisis. killed by force by tsunami waves that pummeled the coast of samoa. entire villages have been wiped out by waves triggered by a magnitude 8.0 earthquake yesterday. samoa police chief said it could take weeks to complete the search for the missing. u.s. geological survey says it had a magnitude of 6.8, the second quake. death toll from the first quake was over 530 people and the second tremor badly damaged dozens of additional buildings. we'll keep our eye on that as

well. dylan, back to you. up next on "morning meeting," overheated health care, we know the narrative, senate committee marking up the bill at this hour. the debate continues to get more and more tense, amendments on abortion coming and going, illegal immigration. as for free choice of all of us to participate in national exchanges, nothing yet. we'll get an update on the choice amendment, coming up. it's endless shrimp at red lobster. indulge in endless choices of your favorite shrimp. including new wood-grilled shrimp with a teriyaki glaze. it's endless shrimp -- our best value of the year. now at red lobster. over health care reform,

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all right. health care reform still on the table. senate finance committee convenes 15 minutes from now. the whole thing could wrap up tomorrow. things continue to get more and more tense. amendments on abortion and illegal immigrants have been shot down. plan for free choice for all of

us to participate in those exchanges so if you don't like your employer carrier, you get to change. still held hostage. we'll get to that. we'll start with mike with the news on the day. >> reporter: abortion offered by oren hatch. codified current practice. now, government funds cannot be spent in abortion practice. any insurer receiving federal funds cannot cover abortion. that amendment went down to defeat with one republican. defeated nonetheless. second amendment that would ban the government requiring hospitals or doctors to perform abortions. that amendment was also defeated in committee. lot of back and forth between orrin hatch and debbie stabenow. >> with all respect to my friend, as a woman i find it

offensive. >> i would be the last person on earth who would want to offend you or any other woman. all i'm trying to do is make sure -- and i don't think this makes it an abortion bill. >> democrats, of course, all along have been looking to republican owe olympia snowe to come aboard, to help them get to 60. owe olympia snowe for many weeks favored the so-called trigger to the public option. there are some indications she will not offer that in committee and perhaps will wait till this bill goes to the senate floor. it won't be voted on by finance, incidentally until next week at the earliest. now they've made promises to post it on the internet. things of that nature. it's not necessarily a bad thing. one development today, thomas carper, democrat from delaware, is floating a proposal that essentially would give the states the option to create their own plan, including a public option. this is seen as something of a compromise if, in fact, they cannot come to an agreement on a

trigger, public option, whatever you call it. carper stepping in with a compromise that's getting attention behind the scenes. also, they're focusing on how to pay for all of this. revenue raiser, cadillac plan. if you have an employer-sponsored plan worth more than $8,000, senator baucus, he would tax that plan. a lot of discussion about that today as well as fines involved in that individual mandate if you choose not to have insurance, the kind of fines you're going to be paying. how to pay for all of this, front and center on the agenda. >> just a bizarre concept i've come up with, if you eliminated the anti-trust exemption, it might get a lot cheaper. that's crazy, i know, but think about it. nia-malika henderson, karen fi in. ney, served as foreign press secretary for hillary clinton and was part of the health care fight in the '90s.

karen, i'm new to this. in terms of the sausage-making process, am i too cynical when i watch this and say, listen, the priorities of relationship, the freedom of choice between patients and the ability of doctors to treat patients and the ability of the doctors to have that freedom, the debate se seems to be revolving around what would be least threatening to the unions, what would be most beneficial to whoever is in whoever's ear, as long as it comes at the expense of the taxpayer, the patient and the doctor. am i too cynical here? >> maybe just a touch. no, i mean, look. indeed, we talked about this. the policy is sort of getting lost in the politics. there's one concern, though, on the face of it, i think a lot of people like the widened proposal. one concern that i think is a valid concern is that, remember over the last 10, 20 years, many union workers have foregone raises because they've gotten increased employer-based health care benefits.

so, if you're going to say that's not going to be on the table, then companies are going to have to be willing to give people raises. otherwise, workers get screwed in that deal. >> of course. i totally understand that. that's why both the unions and employers are against free choice. why would you not let everybody that's a member of the union have better health care and better choices when, in order to do that, you actually have to compensate your union members differently. at this point it seems to be -- >> or your employees. >> we're better to protect the employer and union negotiating power than we are to have everybody have a choice. that's just crazy. >> well, no. of course. but part of it is that we want to protect the employee, again, from not getting screwed on both ends of this, having a reduction in their actual health care benefits as well as not getting the raises that they deserve to keep up with cost of living. >> of course. i guess what i'm saying is why not pretend everybody in america is a member of a union and that union is one that lets everybody get health care wherever they

want to get it? >> oh, dylan. >> why should a particular labor union be the only one that ges the benefits? i want to continue this. let's update, if we could, free choice held hostage in the senate finance committee. it's in there. we can't get it out of there. day seven of the health care markup, karen finney. shut out of the discussions, senators not taking up the amendment today. that doesn't mean there's been lots of opportunities to take shots at it from behind closed doors on the lobbying and special interest front. that amendment would give all taxpayers to buy insurance from the national exchange, not a crazy idea, has been slated to have been taken up. each day it gets passed over and remains in hostage. let me finish. i want to show all the lobbying. again, listen to the lobbying here, karen. this is what has happened since it's been held hostage. american benefits council, who makes money preparing benefits for large corporations, delivered a one-two punch for them and the unions, going

directly against this bill for the obvious reason, unions get better leverage and better benefits because they're able to negotiate health benefits. if they lose that leverage, they would be diminished and power and everybody gets better health care. this time from the business roundtable. again, employers would much rather give you better health care than give you a raise, to kar karen's point. if they control the health care for your children, how are you going to change jobs eeb even if you hate the job? i kind of have you as my slave almost. and then the people in favor of that federal exemption from anti-trust -- this is too good -- people bank rolling the efforts to make sure an exemption is allowed for anti-trust for health care, also again free choice. everybody who would lose here, whether it's the unions, the employers, and the anti-trust people, apparently, karen, very upset about the possibility of choice. and then everybody else in america that would benefit unrepresented. it's a joke.

>> if there's choice, there would be competition and then there would be chaos whachlt would we do? >> my goodness. we all buy our own car insurance, nia and our own homeowners insurance. that's a fiasco. >> it will go through many reiterations before it goes to the president's desk. we heard this carper amendment, for instance, will try to put the issue of the public health option and maybe make that a decision that's up to the states. i think as much as there's this back and forth debate going about lots of amendments and what this bill will look like, we just don't know yet. i think there's a lot more to come. >> here's my quechlt i'll wrap it up, nia. as i look at this am i wrong? are politicians working for large employers and unions against the interest of all of us that would want choice and competition as best we can get it? >> like you said, there again, we're certainly seeing the sausage-making aspect of this. lots of special interest groups. some people, for instance, say

it benefits insurance companies. >> forget some people say. it is simple mathematics. if you mandate everybody to participate in a rigged game, you are benefiting the insurance. if i say to you -- if i pass a law that says you have to buy ice cream from only one provider and the ice cream provider can sell it at any price, that's a screw job is what that's called. if we liberate the ice cream people so you have ten choices and you can go to the one who has the best ice cream for the best price, that's what we're talking about. it's crazy. >> senator rockefeller is going to announce an amendment today that i think you'll like. to insurance companies, hey, if you're going to get federal money, you're actually going to have to spend that money on delivering good health care and not on marketing dollars and all these other things where we know money tends to go. that's kind of nice. >> i would love to go over and set rules for us to decide what happens. again i know it's crazy.

thank you very much, karen. thank you, nia. up next at the "morning meeting," resolution revolution. say or do something wrong, no problem. the house will pass it through the resolution. that will solve it. how all these lovely resolutions are helping our country. how to get rich, by america's health insurance companies. raise health insurance premiums 4 times faster than wages. pay your ceo twenty four million dollars a year. deny payment for 1 out of every 5 treatments doctors prescribe. if the insurance companies win, you lose. tell congress to rewrite the story. we want good health care we can afford with the choice of a public health insurance option.

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>> time for trend or talk. talking headlines everyone is talking about. is it a real trend or just a way to pass the day? our panelists, karen finney and nia-malika henderson. spitfire going on in washington. while some politicians take out their frustrations and aggressions this way -- here in america, republicans and democrats use the very intimidating and highly productive resolution to make a

point. joe wilson yelling, of course, "you lie" at the president. house democrats offended, they demanded a formal apology. when they didn't get it, put him in their place. steny hoyer. >> this resolution simply states the house's disapproval of mr. wilson's words and actions. >> that will get you in line. the gop really mad about this comment from representative alan grayson in florida. >> if you get sick in america, this is what the republicans want you to do. if you get sick, america, republican health care plan is this. die quickly. that's right. the republicans want you to die quickly if you get sick. >> ah, representative tom price so irqed, he waved a draft of

his own censure resolution, yes, and threatened to introduce it unless he apologizes. >> i call on all democrat leaders to demand that he apologize just as one of our members did earlier. >> i daut this is the apology they were looking for. >> i apologize to the dead and their families that we haven't voted sooner to end this holocaust in america. >> karen, maybe a formal wrist slap, a resolution of some kind, anything other than actually solving our country's problems, spitball fighting. please. >> that's the trend. i have to tell you, dylan, this has going on a very long time. they wave their finger at each other. one side does one thing, another side does the other thing. our guy is going to apologize, no, you apologize. you apologize. lot of resolutions. now you know why we're not

getting health care done. >> outdated systems with leaky holes, sending money polices they shouldn't be, we'll be fine. republicans planning on going after charlie wrangel with a resolution, say he isn't fit to chair the ways and means committee while under investigation for ethics violations. carter says he will plan to introduce a resolution. to allow mr. rangel to continue to serve as chairman is the same as allowing a confessed bank robber to serve as chairman of the banking committee during the trial. nia, wasn't larry summer the treasury secretary when they passed all the banking legislation that led to all this? >> yes. that's exactly right. i think this push to censure or pass a resolution for rangel has been around for a while.

we've known about the improprieties that he has been accused of for a while. it doesn't seem like rangel has been able to be a flash point for the righteous yet, but certainly are trying to elevate him to that point with this meaningless resolution. >> we love to fight with words and a couple of pieces of resolutions, but nobody actually seems to want to do much of anything. karen, to put a ribbon on this one and make it a little more way to pastime on msnbc, for those of us out there, myself included -- and there are so many that are watching all of this -- i would like to deliver a message to washington that we would like them to deal with policy, not nonsense. what's the most -- what did you find politicians most respond to? >> you know what? they get terrified when the volume of phone calls to their offices start to go up. so, they monitor phone calls to their offices and actually letters. there's generally a formula. i know when i worked for senator kransden, we would monitor the mail. if we got 100 letters or ten

letters on a topic, we knew that that meant an exponential people are thinking that way, but may not take the time to write in. >> like niel sechlt. n rating. >> that's right. phone calls and letters actually do work. fed chair ben bernanke testified on capitol hill as we speak to protect us, the taxpayer, from being further theev thieved and scammed by the bankers. there will be lots of rhetoric. ♪ take me home ♪ take me home ♪ to my family ♪ ♪ i need to be surrounded by ♪ the ones who care for me [ female announcer ] clean you can see.

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how you could start saving. right now on capitol hill, ben bernanke telling members of the house financial services committee that strong consumer protection is vitally important. bernanke is facing a committee chaired by massachusetts democrat barney frank, who said wednesday that the fed and other bank regulators really can't be trusted to protect the american people. perhaps congressman frank is concerned about past fed decisions. take a look. >> lend to a bank we simply use the computer to mark up the size of the account they have with the fed. so, it's much more akin -- although not exactly the same, but it's much more akin to printing money than borrowing.

>> you've been printing money? >> effective ly, and we need to do that because our economy is very weak and inflation is very low. when the economy begins to recover, we will need to unwind those programs, raise interest rates, reduce the money supply and make sure we have a recovery that does not involve inflation. >> the chairman is half right. we need to do that because our policy makers empowered a system on wall street where they can bonus themselves billions of dollars by risking taxpayer money and when there was no money, they just started principling it. the currency, our u.s. dollar, continues to depreciate. in eastern europe and mexico the most extreme example of an absurdly run country where you allow the bankes -- the current american financial system, good for $35 billion a year, by the way, at the banks. if you could make $35 billion risking taxpayer money, wouldn't you use some of that money to lobby to keep those rules in

place? currency at the lowest level reserve in a decade. no one wants to own the dollar. euro is at a new record on the positive side and, their financial structure is not that different from ours. what gives? it's very simple. all the risk from the banks created making all these loans that mr. bernanke is printing money for, instead of making the banks accountable, nationalizing the banks, giving them stakes to taxpayer, to heck with that. maintain the system. derivatives and crooked insurance are bigger and better than ever, and we'll stick the value of all that risk with us, while bankers, again, keep their fees from all those toxic assets. do not fear too much, though. there are many out there who are ready to go to war with our politicians to try to represent the taxpayer so our dollar does not collapse and our economy does not implode. one of those people, eric denal,

knows about crooked insurance be perfect pet waited by our politicians so our bankers can steal our money right now. try to defend the taxpayer from being stolen from in a fabulous and systematic way. how is it that our current political structure has the audacity to sit there and do nothing to reform the very crooked insurance practices that allow them -- they call it derivatives and whatever else -- to make some $35 billion a year and yet our politicians are doing absolutely nothing, and trying to distract us with this consumer protection agency? >> it is hard to understand. there are some basic fixes that legislatively congress could engage in. it's only been about ten years since they changed -- >> what is that? >> the law that separated investment banking and hedge fund activity from core, real insurance and core real banking.

>> and that alloweded them to do what? >> create these financial supermarkets where you could go out into the marketplace, set up a hedge fund with no capital in that -- >> capital is money? >> it's cash, reserves behind those commitments. instead, you reference -- you got behind these insurance policies and bank deposits and you're risking those. and glass stiegel almost 100 years ago, those politicians understood that and separated those kinds of activities. we didn't want to put at risk the taxpayer and insurance policy holder and bank deposit zpls most people don't know this, karen finney. agriculture committee is responsible for all the crooked insurance derivatives out there because the commodity trading commission is the agency that controls all derivatives. do you think when you see this, it's because they don't really understand it or because they're bought and paid for or because they think there's another way at it? when you look at a $35 billion business, a few trillion in the hole and no one in washington wants to do anything about it,

what's your political analysis? >> i think there's a couple things. one, you're right. we do need to look at the money going into politics here and look at who would stand to gain and who would stand to lose and who's giving money to whom, as always. >> i can answer those questions. want me to answer those questions? i have the answers. jp morgan, goldman sachs, bank of america all benefit tremendously, because they're doing it at no risk, and major contributors to politicians, and some of the members of barney frank's own committee. as attorney general, eric, what could you do to get real derivative, real crooked insurance reform in this country? >> if people are out there, selling the equivalent of insurance or some other -- >> no, they are. >> we can agree that has actual capital requirements behind it, people can enforce the laws. the problem is that congress took away a lot of the opportunity for state and other

regulators to enforce and regulate those situations. so, they made it that it wasn't a security, it wasn't an insurance product of some kind. >> go ahead, karen. >> you know, this is another example, though -- again, congress has a pretty full agenda. this is an issue that not a lot of americans probably understand why, and how to advocate for this why they need to be advocating for this. certainly they need to understand where our moncy going and why are we paying for the bankers to get bonuses while the rest of us suffer. when you get down to this level of detail, this is an easy issue to kind of -- >> let's make it super easy. center agriculture committee has the opportunity to reform what bankrupted our country and depreciated our currency and they refuse to do that. >> this is what led to the economic collapse, what caused

the credit freeze and congress has the power to go back, and forward, look what we used to have in place, and simply put it back in place going forward. >> this law was only changed ten years ago. whoo he had -- this problem didn't exist until ten years ago. >> right. in 1999, we passed legislation that led to this credit freeze and the collapse of the economy. it's as simple as going back and admitting that the country and congress made a mistake and that we should revisit that and fix it. >> meanwhile $35 billion taxpayer subsidized money train continues. thank you, america and thank you, congress, for allowing this to perfect pet wait itself. monica, what else is going on out there? in indonesia, second earthquake has hit there on the heels of wednesday's tremor. the u.s. geological survey says the second quake had a preliminary magnitude of 6.8. death toll from the first quake had already reached over 530 on the island of sumatra. thousa

thousands of people are believed trapped under collapsed buildings right now. ian williams is in padang, indonesia for us. what is the situation there? what are you seeing? >> reporter: good morning, monica. people here are very jittery. afshock today had them running to the streets, had them fearful of another tsunami. now we're seeing the death toll figures creep up above the 500. they've been rise iing relentley all day. there are believed to be hundreds more still trapped under buildings. a short while ago, i was in the center of town at a school that has collapsed. 60 children were still in class when the quake hit at the end of the school day yesterday. around half of those are still trapped in the rubble. it was a single excavator working to dig away at the heavy concrete. and a number of rescue workers digging by hand. really, there is very little outside help that's arrived here. at the hospital, doctors were

complaining that they're running short on drugs. because the hospital itself was damaged by the quake, they're having to set up a makeshift operating theater out in a tent. corridors are crowded. there are people milling around. it really is the site here -- people trying to recover from the debris, but no idea how many people are still there, buried, monica. >> oh, gosh. ian williams, thank you for that update. the u.s. and iran have had face-to-face talks for the first time in 30 years. the u.s. and five other world powers are in geneva, meeting with iran, urging it to stop all nuclear activities. we heard from andrea mitchell a short time ago. u.s. and iran had a side conversation during the lunch break, the first direct meeting since the u.s. severed ties with tehran during the 1979 hostage crisis. >> in less than 20 minutes, elizabeth smart, who in 2002 was taken from her utah bedroom at knife point, she's going to testify for the first time in

court about the time she spent with her abductor, brian david mitche mitchell. she is now 21 years old and a judge ruled on monday she could take the stand as part of the hearing of whether mitchell is competent to stand trial. phillip garrido has sent a letter from prison to a local tv station in sacramento. in this letter, he claims officials are violating the civil rights of his alleged victim, jaycee lee dugard, by questioning her outside the presence of an attorney. her stepfather responding to that letter, quote, it sounds stupid that he's alleging her civil rights were violated. he violated her rights. holding a news conference at the top of the hour, we'll have that for you, sullenberger's first flight since that famous landing you're looking at there, the hudson river landing in

january. this morning, he will pilot a flight from new york to charlotte, north carolina. pilot jeffrey skiles will join sullenberger. it's your lucky day if you're feting on a flight first thing in the morning and the guy who comes over is sullenberger. >> incredible, truly. must be a delight for him to be back in the air, too. clearly a man in his right place. >> still to come here on "the morning meeting," installment of america the great. rich e richest americans, who earned their money through innovation and investment, and who is just a vampire on either a broken or outdated system? this is a very good list. you'll see that there are more true creators in this country than you might think. i drove a truck for twenty-seven and a half years... and when i fell and busted my back up, that ended my driving career. and then i lost my health insurance. we tried to get health insurance on our own, but was turned down every time because of pre-existing condition.

last year i lost my wife to cancer. like all of this could have been prevented if we'd of had a simple thing called insurance it's just hard to swallow. to lose somebody like that i'm nervous about her going away. (sunny) the bayer meter helps me become more independent. (announcer) only bayer's contour meter has programmable personal high low settings. i want you to be happy. don't cry. (announcer) the contour meter, only from bayer.

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all right. this morning out with its annual

rankings of america's 400 richest, of course they're not as rich as they once were. no one is. the group declined as a community, drop. while price to the admission to the club now below $1 billion to make it to number 400. tough to feel bad, of course, for anybody on thely. why should you? no one is asking you to, especially since you may be struggling to pay the electric bill. it is tutorial as we talk about capitalism in our country. some of the lists will make you mad because they didn't really make the money. most of them, quite honest ly, not only did they make the money, but created tremendous value for society, changed the game in ten different ways. this is a celebration of america the great and an opportunity to see who is not so great. let's start with the vampire real quick here, jeffrey picower, one of the richest men in the world and one of the earliest investors with bernie madoff. on the back end of that ponzi scheme, now named in a lawsuit,

to recover the if you knows that make him one of forbes richest. picower says if he knew about the ponzi conceal, he wouldn't have been involved. he said nothing about having found out about the ponzi scheme and returning the money to the investors that came after him. forbes list proof of what makes our country so great. hundreds of innovators and investors, huge earning potential available to you or anybody with a great idea and the drive to see it through. bill gates, warren buffett, they top the forbes list, not a one-time event, oprah winfrey changed the game and comes in at number 141. her show currently seen in 145 countries and she's still looking to expand with a plan launch of the oprah winfrey network, her own tv network last year. then the self made types like jack taylor, a name you may not

know, but enterprise rent-a-car likely does. he took a 50% pay cut to start the business, which pairs the same name as the ship he served on in world war ii, the u.s.s. enterprise. facebook creator mike zuckerberg checks in at 158. don't let his baby face fool you, a net worth of $2 billion. 25 years old. he is among the 247 entirely self made business minds that made this list. more importantly, our evidence of how great this country is. it's good to know so many in this country actually make their money by creating values for others in society, a great investor or great innovator, other than just trying to rig washington like our friends in the derivatives business, gambling our money to make themselves rich. it's called stealing. this is an example of how to be a capitalist and it's our

edition of america the great. access to favorite courses chef's meal with pommes frites perhaps a night at the theater with extra special seats additional hotel night, our treat your world in perfect harmony: priceless look for world on your mastercard to get rewards and offers that matter to you.

lots of concern, understandably so, as to how our government has been handling our finances. for that matter, the health care debate. ben bernanke trying to explain things on capitol hill. at least it hasn't come to this. check out what happened in turkey. student journalist throwing a shoe at the director of the montory fund, the gesture seen as an insult. the shoe missed the podium and hit another student in the head. whoops. security removed the shoe thrower from the hall as he yell ed, imf get out! alex and monica take care of you from here.

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