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apparently,holding democrats to a higher level than they hold their own members, because you have seen the statements that were regularly made by the republicans on the floor about issues that relate to death. >> how spacer nancy pelosi says she wants a truce but isn't asking democratic congressman alan grayson to apologize for his remarks saying republicans want you to "die quickly." grayson is not backing down either. he is taking things a step further. >> these are foot-dragging, knuckle-dragging, knee ander thals who know nothing but no. the power of o, oprah winfrey and the first lady take over copenhagen in advance of the 2016 olympic games. there are questions in many neighborhoods, including you the windy city. gentleman today in geneva, 30

years after the u.s. and iran broke off diplomatic relations, representatives of both countries met and talked about iran's nuke cheer program. this round is now over. we will have the latest. the chaotic scene in indonesia, a second earthquake rocks the area. rescue workers scrambling to find survivors of the first quake, which has now claimed more than 500 lives. kind of like being a president. >> even though it is just a u.n. security council, secretary of state clinton finally gets to be president. the big picture starts right now. good afternoon, everyone, i'm david shuster live in washington. >> i'm alex witt live in new york. tamron hall has the day off. breaking news on msnbc, in a couple of minutes, we will hear from president obama about those face-to-face talks today between the u.s. and iran. in the meetings, iran agreed to open up its newly disclosed nuclear facility for inspections, a very dramatic development.

iran's foreign minister agreed to the inspection earlier today, following six-party talks with iran and then direct talks over lunchtime between the u.s. undersecretary of state and iranian officials. it prompted cautious optimism today from secretary of state hillary clinton. >> now we have to wait and see how quickly and whether iran responds and i think it was a productive day but the proof of that has not yet come to fruition. so we will wait and continue to press our point of view and see what iran decides to do. >> again, we are waiting for president obama to address this issue in the diplomatic room at the white house. it has been nearly 30 years since the united states and iran have held direct talks so this is a day of dramatic developments, both in terms of u.s. national security but also regarding u.s. domestic

politics. when it comes to security, iran's belated disclosure of another nuclear facility and iran's apparent interest in processing uranium lead lead to deep international concerns the past week. strong condemnations from great britain, france, germany and russia and a growing call for stiff sanctions on iran. plight clirk the obama administration has been criticized repeatedly by republicans for seeking to engaging in direct talks with iran. in fact that is a criticism that dates become to the campaign against john mccain. so any sort of positive outcome out of the talks today and out of the talks that are now scheduled ahead that could have a huge impact, again, not just in terms of national security, but also in terms of domestic politics. joining us now is nbc's savannah guthrie live from the white house. i wonder if you can choreograph how the president is going to handle this, given the tea leaves right now are positive. >> i think a cautious tone we hear from the president.

they are pleased to a certain extent that these talks were fruitful and productive as far as they go the iranians, of course acre growing let inspectors into this combed site. i don't think we will see a victory lap, by any stretch of the imagination. the president will make it clear that the iranians have a choice, the world expects actions and the way diplomats and officials on the inside look at this is a dual track. on the one hand, you have the engagement, the talks, the u.s. officials hopeful, i wouldn't say optimistic but hopeful that something fruitful will happen there, but not at the same time, putting together a sanctions regime and thinking about the various coalition these could get on any number of sanctions, if you go through the u.n., the p5 plus 1, get u.s. and china on board, that is the trick. there are ways to attack it i think what we will hear from the president something that free flengts that, feel it is a positive step forward but

looking for postclook ing for concrete actions. >> as long as irvan is willing o have these talks, how concerned is the white house about maybe dribbling out the clock here if that is what they want to do? >> very aware of that and aware of past behavior and said many, many times we don't want to just talk for talk's sake, they are very attuned to anything that might be perceived as delaying tactics by the iranians, for example, if they set a date so far in the future for the iaea to come into the combed site and look at it, they wouldn't be -- think that was acceptable because they don't want to give the iranians a chance to sanitize it or move things around so it seems less nefarious. they are very aware of. this and they know that they have to get a coalition together that's why they feel they came in with a lot of leverage and some strengths because they in their view, caught the iranians

red-happened and created consensus about t some officials say the usual iran sympathizers, without naming particular countries, were surprised and displayed, those folks who previously defend iran saying, look, maybe it is just for civilian nuclear purposes were very unhappy foye learn about this combed site and also strength.ed and happe -- streng by this site. i think they feel like they have this international coalition, they have this moment, they want to seize on it but i don't think they have any illusions about how cooperative iran ultimately will be. >> joining us is the vice president for policy the american foreign policy council. good afternoon to you. >> good to be here.

>> let put all this in perspective. been since the early '80s the last time we had face-to-face talks with the iranians, 30 years since that happened, last happened at the height of the hostage crisis. the fact that we had discussions today, the fact that iran has committed to cooperating fully with u.n. weapons inspectors, the fact they have agreed to have further talks later this month, does that mean diplomacy has worked here, at least on some level? >> well, it mean as a great deal and knock at all. in fact, the united states has had talks with iran since the hostage crisis in 1980. and these talks, for example, two years ago, we had track two talks with iran over security in iraq and those didn't go very well. the iranian side was less than forth coming about helping the security situation in iraq. so think what's useful here is to have a little bit of skepticism about the -- how much the negotiations can actually accomplish. iran is clearly interested in engaging with the united states,

but their fundamental strategy, i don't think, is going to change very much. what they would like is to play for time, add permanence to their nuclear project and i think that's very much in effect today. there has been a concession on the iranian side, certainly significant, but i don't think we are anywhere within striking distance of assuming that the nuclear project itself is negotiable. >> what about the significance of the proposal to farm out the development and enrichment of their uranium, working in conjunction with u.s., france and russia working to have that happen? i mean, that in effect, would allow a lot of this angst to be racheted down, would it not? be in control of partners here with france, potentially russia to help do that returning that enriched uranium just to a level that would help them pursue their energy pursuits, not anything beyond that? >> no, that's right. in fact, the idea of international nuclear fall bank, if you could call it that, has been something that was talked about in congress during the second term of president bush.

and this is something that at least so far, the iranians have been fairly cool b the fact that they are changing stance now, or at least appear to be giving indications that they are considering it is certainly a positive sign but it is also, i think, somewhat problematic in the sense that it creates a situation where iran can engage in clandestine uranium enrichment at home without having even nominal oversight of the international community because they can say that all the uranium enrichment is going on abroad and therefore there is no need for inspectors at all. >> okay to. >> i want to bring back savannah quickly while waiting for the president, something elan talked about in the face-to-face talks, savannah, any sort of readout when that direct face-to-face talk happened with underis secretary burns what precipit e precipitated, what they thought? >> unilateral talks between burns and the iranian diplomats? we haven't gut gotten the full readout or tick tock of what

happened but happened on the sidelines during these larger talks but in terms of what exactly happened, we don't have a readout on that yet. >> savannah guthrie, thanks very much, and alex, thanks as well to elan berman. >> absolutely. >> hard to sort of understate just what a big deal this is. i mean, as they point out, even -- the world is ready to sort of -- world so surprised and shocked last week when iran belatedly came out and ac knowledged they had the nuclear site and what this is going to do to israel and iran to pivot and say we will agree to inspectors, a big deal if, indeed they can follow through. >> got to wonder what extent, david, the promise of sanctions weighed on them heavily. i mean, all those talks about sanctions, most certainly, the one topping the list was to curb their access to gasoline. that would be so difficult for them, that's one thing that would be difficult for them to survive that may have been a good tactic to use there. >> yeah, just a reminder to all of our viewers, we will take

president obama's remarks when they happen. he is running a little bit late but again, we expect the president to talk in just a couple of minutes and make sure that we are on it when he steps into the diplomatic room at the white house. coming up, david, the very latest on the natural disaster leaving hundreds of people dead in the pacific. tsunamis, and soon, a super typhoon. and also just a few hours, friends of obama will join his wife in europe, the lobby for chicago the host of the 2016 summer olympics. can his personal appeal make the difference? minnesota governor tim pawlenty is taking the first concrete step toward the republican presidential race in 2012, but can he beat the juggernaut known as sarah palin? we will talk about it on the big picture on msnbc.

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we are expecting president obama to step into the diplomatic room at the white house and make remarks about the crucial talks between iran and the united states and does appear there may have been something of a breakthrough with iran agreeing to inspectors from the united nations. we will bring you the president's remarks when they happen. okay, david, now let's go to health care and the growing debate over congressman alan grayson's comment, "the republicans want you to die quickly" republicans are calling on the democrat from florida to apologi apologize. he refused and instead, adding fuel to the fire. take a listen to what he said on the rachel maddow show last night. >>er dealing with people on the other side who are utterly unscrupulous. these are foot-dragging, knuckle-dragging, neanderthals who know nothing but no. one way or another, we have to overcome it for the sake of the nation. >> just a few hours ago, house speaker nancy he will pelosi said congressman grayson does not need to apologize for his

comes because they have been said before. >> apparently, holding democrats to a higher level than they hold their own members because you have seen the statements made regularly by republicans on the floor about issues this relate to death. >> but house minority leader john boehner says house speaker nancy pelosi needs to tone down the rhetoric comes from her party. >> i think it's time for democrat leaders and the speaker of the house herself to rein in some of the rhetoric that she decried just several weeks ago and if he is not going to apologize to the american people and to republicans, as he should, really, it is the democratic leadership's responsibility to have a conversation with her own member. >> mike viqueira is the nbc correspondent. good afternoon to you. deja vu all over again. what do you think? >> how we do love our united

states house of representatives. all the action was on the senate side during that very long finance committee markup, which incidentally, could be ending within the next day or so alan grayson, let's review the chronology here, went to the floor during a period after hours in congress, called special orders. now it is not very important in terms of making legislation but a lot of members like it because it is aired live on c-span and pretty much say what they want for five minutes or even longer and this is where mr. grayson, a freshman democrat from the orlando area said that the republican health care plan was to die quickly, senior citizens, if you get sick. republicans, of course, took great umbrage and went to the floor and said we demand an apology and demand that nancy pelosi demand an apology of this man n response to that, grayson went to the floor and kicked dirt back in the republican faces and apologized not for making the comes that he did, but apologize because congress had not yet passed a health care plan, something he called a holocaust for the figure he cites more than 40,000 people who died as a result of

congress' negligence and this republican took great umbrage to as well. not incidentally, raising money off of this alan grayson himself is raising money off of this republicans have started a website, alan disgrayson.com, saying this is part of a pathological pattern of unstable and erratic behavior on the part of mr. grayson. to think, alex, only been here nine months or so and already developed this reputation, it is unclear what anybody stands to gain here, why we saw napcy pelosi call for calm earlier today after trying to introduce a resolution, republicans today backed off a little bit, said they were not going to do talha and the onus was on nancy pell lows circumstance it is to back off and give your opponents enough rope if they are busy hanging themselves. on it goes in the midst of the health care debate, seen a lot of this vity try yol, visceral emotion, both on capitol hill and elsewhere, of course, the last several months and on it

goes, alex. >> are we furtherering the ball in the discussion of health care or just playing some pretty low-brow partisan politics? is there anything that either this particular situation or the "you lie" shot by joe wilson, both sides of the aisle not playing the right way. >> right. >> anything here we can learn from, valid we should be discussing or just doing politics >> that is a great question and i would love to sit on a panel some time and discuss it the congress has 200-more some-odd year history panin cch other, shooting each other in duels, beating each other on the floor, more recently yanking each other's ties on the floor, giving each other the old italian sal outation on the there are of the house. this is something emotional. grayson does not come from a liberal district. obvious ex-plan nation, he is trying to stir up things and raise money, a guy very wealthy

had in his own right, a self-funded candidate who ousted a republican in the last election. >> would you be great on that panel. >> thanks. the house majority leader is calling for an apology for congressman grayson but not "die quickly" come, he has another reason and find out next hour. david what, do you think mike was refer to he said the old italian salutation? >> i think i know but i don't want to hazard a guess, alex. >> shouldn't go there. >> there are so many -- so much emotion in this health care debate that it is -- it is amusing in a way, you see some of the serious work of the amendments and discuss of the senate finance committee and floor speeches, knuckle-dragging knee and th-- neanderthals. >> that was a good one. still waiting for president obama to step into the

diplomatic room to talk about the discussions with iran, first face-to-face direct contacts between iran and the united states in 30 years. by all accounts, it appears as if the discussions at least got some concessions from iran, iran has apparently agreed to open up the nuclear facilities to inspectors, some of the details still have to be fill inched the president is going to be meeting with the secretary of state hillary clinton to talk about what happened in geneva, also meeting today with vice president biden and led to believe he was going to come out and talk to the media before those meetings at 3:30 but gotten the two-minute warning. as soon as the president comes out to talk about iran, a big deal and bring it to you live. you are watching "the big picture" on msnbc. e innce, rv, camper, boat insurance. nice work, everyone. exec: well, it's easy for him. he's a cute little lizard. gecko: ah, gecko, actually - exec: with all due respect, if i was tiny and green and had a british accent i'd have more folks paying attention to me too... i mean - (faux english accent) "save money! pip pip cheerio!" exec 2: british? i thought you were australian.

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took place after the recent earthquake and tsunami. i've spoken to the governor and the delegate from america samoa and we continue to provide the full support of the american government for full relief effort there is. i have also directed the state department to it provide the assistance necessary to help samoa recover as well. we are also deeply moved by the suffering and the loss of life that's been caused by the recent earthquake in west sumatra. now, my administration has been in touch with the government of indonesia to make it clear that the united states stands ready to help in this time of need and i've ordered my administration to coordinate with the ongoing relief and recovery efforts there. indonesia's extraordinary country that's known extraordinary hardship from natural disasters. i know firsthand, the indonesian people are strong and resilient and had the spirit to overcome this enormous challenge and as they do, they need to know that america will their friend and

partner. today in geneva, the united states, along with our fellow permanent members of the united nations security council, namely russia, china, france and united kingdom, as well as germany, held talks with the islamic republic of iran. these meetings came after several months of intense diplomatic effort. upon taking office, i made it clear that the united states was prepared to join our p5 plus 1 partners as a full participant in talks with iran. i extended the offer of meaningful engagement to the iranian government. i committed the united states to a comprehensive effort to strengthen the nuclear nonproliferation treaty so that all nations have the right to peaceful nuclear power, provided that they live up to their international obligations. and we have engaged in intensive, bilateral and multilateral diplomacy with our p5 plus 1 partners and with nations around the world to

re-enforce this point, including an historic u.n. security council resolution that was passed unanimously last week. the result is clear. the p5 plus 1 is united and we have an international community that has reaffirmed its commitment to nonproliferation and disarmament. that's why the iranian government heard a clear and unified message from the international community in geneva. iran must demonstrate through concrete steps that it will live ups to the responsibilities with regard to its nuclear program n pure fuhr suit of that goal, today's meeting was a constructive begin bug it must be followed with construct ittive action by the iranian government. first, iran must demonstrate its commitment to the transparency. earlier this month, we presented clear evidence that iran has been building a covert nuclear

facility in cone. since iran has agreed to cooperate fully and immediately with the international atomic energy agency it must grant up period access to iaea inspectors within two weeks. i have been in chose touch with the head of the iaea, mohamed elbaradei traveling to tehran in the days ahead. he has my full support and the iranian government must grant the iaea full access to the site. secondly, iran must take concrete steps to build confidence that is nuke cheer program will serve peaceful purposes, steps that meet iran's obligations under multiple u.n. security council resolutions. the iaea proposal that was agreed to in principle today with regard to the tehran research reactor is a confidence-building step that is consistent with that objective, provided that it transfers iran's low-enriched uranium to a third country for fuel

fabrication. as i have said before, we support iran's right to peaceful nuclear power. taking the step of transferring its low-enriched uranium to a third country would be step toward building confidence that iran's program is, in fact, peaceful. going forward, we expect to see swift action. we are committed to serious and meaningful engagement but we are not interested in talking for the sake of talking. if iran does not take steps in the near future to live ups to the obligations, then the united states will not continue to negotiate indefinitely and we are prepared to move toward increased pressure. if iran takes concrete steps and lives ups to the obligations, there is a path toward a better relationship with the united states, increased integration for iran within the international community and a better future for all iranians. so, let me reiterate. this is a constructive beginning but hard work lies ahead.

we have entered a phase of intensive international negotiations. and talk is no substitute for action. pledges of cooperation must be fulfilled. we have made it clear that we will do our part to engage the iranian government on the basis of mutual interest and mutual respect but our patience is not unlimited. this is not about singling out iran this is not about creating double standards this is about the global nonproliferation regime and iran's right to peaceful nuclear energy, just as all nations have it, but with that right comes responsibilities. the burden of meeting these responsibilities lies with the iranian government and they are now the ones that need to make that choice. thank you very much. >> president obama at the diplomatic room at the white house, calling it a constructive beginning, twice talking about the talks with iran as a constructive beginning this

comes can on the heels of iran's foreign minister telling the united nations that iran has agreed to allow international atomic energy inspectors into that newly disclosed nuclear facility near com. in addition, a second part of the agreement today that the president drew our attention to and that is that iran has apparently agreed to allow a third party, a third county essentially deal with the uranium enrichment. in order, iran would not do themselves, a third party, a third up with the could do it, assure it was for peaceful purposes. the president said if iran does not take the steps to live ups to the obligations, the united states will not continue to negotiate with iran and mr. obama also said that iran has two weeks to actually allow those international inspectors into the pafacility as iran promised today. elan, what did you make of the president's tone and language as far as developing with the developments today? >> i think the president struck the proper tone.

framing it as a constructive program is right. it bells the question what are we shooting for? the administration is probably looking for a freeze for freeze type of situation in an ideal world with where iran freezes grout right its uranium enrichment in a prez for sanctions of reintegration of iran into the international community in terms of economic ties and political ties it is not clear that is going to happen. it is not clear we have enough leverage to make that happen. >> let me stop you there when the president talks about the steps to make sure there are peaceful purposes for the nuclear enrichment, off third party, gets to the nuke cheer uranium enrichment to a third party or third country, wouldn't that do it? >> not completely. here, a little bit of a technical discussion about the disposition of the iranian program and parallel programs running simultaneously, iran's ballistic missile program, iran's space program, married together with the other two. and so you know, here, the

important thing to remember is that enrichment from no enrichment to low enrichment is where the prepopped rance of the energy, political, economic and otherwise, lies. iran's enrichment from low-enriched uranium to high-rehigh high-enriched uranium isn't a simple task. we are not sure what they are going to do with that capability that concern is on the table. >> the next two weeks, does this essentially freeze the russians and chinese from going along? everybody is in a holding pattern to sea if the international inspectors are allowed into these nuclear facilities within the next two weeks and whether they are allowed just into the kom facility but the others they want to inspect? >> no, that's right. i think what is going to happen the end of those two weeks if iran hasn't yet let international inspectors in there is going to be an extension of that deadline. the problem that i see with this negotiating track is that it makes u.s. policy sequential it puts negotiations first, then

potentially sanctions then potentially something even -- even more robust, but frankly, in order for this stuff to work, we have to be putting serious leverage on the iranians now, we have to be able to take rev lage away, take pressure away and is that the only way we can create leverage and cause the iranians to think the cost of this program frankly outweigh the benefits. right now this he don't have that cal cue louse. >> that is true but also true we don't know what sort of rev lage the obama administration was able to put on the iranians during private talks today. any case, elan berman, thanks for helping us through this. alex it does set the clock ticking now the next two weeks, we should see inspectors going into iran and looking at these facilities. and if that happens that would be a big deal, especially if they are allowed unfettered access and you might start to see then also the political benefit because again, republicans have been suggesting there should not be these direct talks with iran if the president is able to point to these talks and say wait a second, look at the progress we have made, also help them politically but of course, the primary concern right now is national security.

>> absolutely, you are right, the political ramifications of all this are quite profound there is positive movement. i think everyone needs to understand, caution, because it is going to be slow, incremental, despite the president putting on this two-week time line that will allow access for our last guest, mr. berman, he suggested even if the suggestion that france and russia would help oversee development of nuclear material to be the kind of material to just produce energy, the doctors say train there, we can do what we want as we have done secretly in the past. this is all -- it is baby steps truly but significant ones nonetheless. the big picture at this hour, david, governor tim pawlenty is gearing up for the 2012 presidential election. the republican from minnesota announced the creation of a political action committee today, freedom first. he also announced his support of high-level political strategists i and donors. governor pawlenty is bringing in the some of the key operatives that helped president george w. bush win re-election in 2004 and

also reportedly trying to win over former supporters of mitt romney. the second-term governor is not seeking re-election next year. now the bigger picture who is likely to be the republican front-runner for the 2012 presidential election? sure it is early but everybody in washington knows you got to get started earlily and you got to get the right team in early if you want to have a legitimate shot f you are judging things based on book sales, former alaska governor sarah palin is in the inside track. her soon-to-be released memoir "going rogue" a best seller. preorders have given her the number one spot on amazon.com as well as barnes & noble the former traveling press secretary for john mccain is good enough to play this game with us. >> look into that crystal ball. >> start with the foreign policy news today and how that shapes the republican feel. how does it the fact it looks like there is a breakthrough with iran, how does it change that? >> depend on what actually happens in iran. i think that the president, i

did appreciate his tone today but he is playing, walk a careful line here, let's be clear, dealing with an illegitimate regime, a president who basically seized power, stole the election and behind president ahmadinejad, the real power in iran, the mullahs, a lot of these people are just crazy and do not have america's best interest at heart to negotiate effectively with them if we can get it done, i think he deserves all the kudos in the world, but going to be a very steep hall think climb. a loft to republicans say, you know what tim pawlenty has the capability to articulate something as clearly and intelligently as you just did, sarah palin a lot of pep aren't so sure. no question that governor pail.'slack of foreign policy credentials in the '08 campaign were a big hit against her. a lot of people, you could fairly make that same argument about governor pawlenty. frankly, about governor romney, although he has been around a lot longer, some of those

credentials are more burnish, any time you come from a governor's mansion, running for president, people always criticize your lack of foreign policy credentials, happened with george bush, happened with bill clinton. if sarah palin does run, it will happen with her, i have to say that is one of many problems she is going to have if she decides to run. >> this is -- going to get a lot of e-mails talking about this now, it is three years out this is the time you start looking for staff and make sure you have your finance people and politics, your advisers and strategists. how are they doing when luke at mitt romney, newt gingrich, haley barbour, tim pawlenty, sarah palin, you know, your colleagues? >> my friends. >> who is being snapped up by who? >> governor pawlenty is making headlines now because he is moving quickly and moving early. obviously, that was a strategic decision there are a lot of very, very talented campaign staffers out there who were with mitt romney last time and inclined to be with him this time. i think most of the senior staff of the romney organization are

committed to mitt romney but people on the mid level, i know that governor pawlenty is going to them saying, look, you go back to mitt romney world, you will have the exact same job you had last time, all those senior people are still going to be there come to my campaign and you can really grow. you can get promoted up the food chain. this is the silly season right now, everyone is running, all running for president but they are all pretending not to be running for president because the absolute worst thing you can do as far as republican activists are concerned is to look like you are focused on 2012 when you should be focused on 2010. so they are all going to run around the country, raise a whole lot of money, build organization organizations give out a whole lot of money, banking up the favors and say this has nothing to do with 2012, i am i'll make that decision later and focus on 2010. >> main they will be focused on -- >> very happy sitting on the sidelines now. >> who ever gets you, todd,

lucky to have you. todd harris, republican strategist. appreciate t alex, hear the e-mails, why are you guys talking about it? but this in these days, tough start building these organization three and four days in advance. >> you took my thunder away, todd harris, i don't know if he is still plugged in and talked to us, i met that guy when i was covering the schwarzenegger election in 2003. he scared the hell out of me, can i just say that? be like, whoa, here comes todd harris, always just had something going, get out of his way. whomever might pick you up there, todd, you know, you do your well. okay. >> great stuff. great stuff. alex, there was a pretty big ruling today related to the cia leak case. remember that one? those of us who covered it will never forget, the bush administration blew the cover of cia officer valerie blame following her husband's criticism of the recommendation for war. "scooter" libby was convicted of

charges of perjury and obstruction of justice. libby told the fbi that it was cheney who ordered him to reveal plame's identity to reporter bus he couldn't recall the conversations. why are we telling you this now? cheney's version of events have been a source of intrigue. what did he say to prosecutors during his interview? today a federal judge ruled the fbi and the prosecutors must reveal some some of their notes from cheney's interview. some can be withheld for national security reasons and the justice department is planning to appeal and possible cheney may appeal as well, so any actual release of the interview may still be years away but there is still so much intrigue in the cia leak case about what dick chain nay's role was, his conversations with "scooter" libby that "scooter" libby could not recall what did dick cheney say about the conversations? the federal judge made us all one step closer today to finding out. >> go down memory lane, all over that story, certainly, david

schuster. thank you. meantime, everyone, another strong 6.6 earthquake rocked western indonesia today, struck the island of sumatra, already devastated by a powerful magnitude 7.6 quake yesterday. hundreds of buildings have collapsed and nearly 800 people confirmed dead. that toll expected to go much higher. still, some people have been found alive in the rubble, including the woman you are about to see found screaming in pain under the debris of a collapsed house. it is believed thousands of other people are still trapped in the rubble. south pacific, death toll climbed to 150 there from the tsunami that hit american samoa and samoa. debris-filled swamps and flattened homes are being searched while others are telling stories of being trapped under water or flung inland. waves 15 to 20 feet high crashed into american samoa tuesday, a mile inland.

triggered by a magnitude 8.0 earthquake. relief efforts are under way by several countries, including the united states. and still another disaster, the death toll now almost 400 from the tropical storm that hit the philippines and southeast asia last weekend. most of the deaths are in the philippines, more than 16 inches of rain nell a 12-hour period causing major flooding and mudslides. much of the capital was under water. now, that same area is bracing for an even more powerful storm, typhoon parma upgraded to a super typhoon today, not good, equivalent of a category 4 hurricane, expected to hit the philippines saturday. oh. up next, new attack from a republican from minnesota, controversial lawmaker claims that health care will reyate sex clinics in schools that provides abortiontion to teenagers. later in the show, david, jon plus kate equals hate? tell built increasingly ugly

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welcome back to "the big picture." what can be said in the health care debate that hasn't been said before? >> enter minnesota congresswoman bishle backman, took to the health floor last night to warn about a provision in the health care bill she says authorizes school health clinics, which she called sex clinics, she said it would lead to students being whisked away in school hours for abortions without parental consent. >> does that mean that someone's 13-year-old daughter could walk into a sex clinic have a pregnancy test done, be taken away to the local planned parenthood abortion clinic have their abortion, be back and go home on the school bus that night? mom and dad are never the wiser. >> the health care bill also says the school-based clinics would follow parental notification laws that are

already in place. furthermore, these clinics are not new. according to independent fact check groups this is another case of false claims by congresswoman backman, she has a lengthy history of controversial remarks a year ago on ""hardball"" suggested then-presidential candidate barack obama had anti-american views. is she helping or hurting her case? joining us is adam green and conservative blogger matt lewis with politics.com and town hall.com. adam, i'm going to ask you, every time michelle bachmann says something and democrats exorcised because it is false, does that take attention away from the message? >> it does take away. one caveat is michelle bachmann is crazy. number one is that, yes, the entire intent here is to take attention away from the core

issue at the center of the health care debate the public help insurance option but reason they are taking the attention awake the public option overwhelmingly prop lar the only republican strategy is distract, distract, distract, gifted distracters like john kyle from arizona, a senator, but republicans don't want her on the field, prefer she stays off. why? because she is crazy but she keeps coming back on. i think her being the face of the distraction is actually very hurtful to republicans in the long run. >> matt lewis, your view? >> well, first of all, i find it interesting that my worthy adversary here has twice referred to a u.s. member of congress as "crazy", not exactly the kind of rhetoric we like to see on television, but look, here is the deal, i think that one very possible thing that could come out of this is an amendment explicitly prohibiting these school-based clinics from referring girls to abortion clinics. david there are still a number

of states and the district of columbia that do not have parental consent laws. >> matt they can't do it right now and the independent group said that michelle bachmann this claim is flat out wrong, false, whether it is said by her, whether said by copper is vattive radio or bloggers, it is wrong, can't do that right now if you are going to try to distract attention from health care why not do it on something where you are more factually based an factually sound? >> david, my understanding there are a husbandful of states that don't have parental consent laws and the district of columbia. my understanding, look if it is so easy to do and a nonissue why not have an amendment expressly prohibiting school-based clinics from referring underaged girls to have abortion without parental consent? clearly there are liberals in this country who believe that, you know, maybe your daughter has to have a -- permission to get her ears pierced or a tattoo, but not to have an abortion. >> actually, what's going on

here is when people get their ears checked and eyes tested that is the kind of health clinic that has long been talked about. i don't think there has ever been a case, and correct me if i am wrong, ever been a case of somebody using one of these clinics, existing provisions to say during school hours, i'm going to go get an abortion and i don't need to tell my parents, has that ever happened? . i'm not an expert at what happened in these schools. my understanding this would be a new provision. let me say this politically, putting aside >> it's false. >> you asked whether or not this was good for republicans. if there is no an amendment specifically banning this, you will see candidate -- there will be mailers and tv commercials say that, candidate x voted with nancy pelosi for a big government health care grab that will allow your 13-year-old daughter to have an abortion. that would be very devastating for democrats. mrlly speaking, i don't think this is a loser by any stretch. >> exempt i'm not sure some

television stations would run that ad because that would be blatantly false. in any case, adam, as far as the politics you may think michele bachmann is crazy and may have ample evidence to back that up but the republicans love her. >> the republicans do love her. i think it's interesting that in the context of a health care debate, matt is on tv talking about tattoos and ear piercings. again, this is all about distractions. republicans love her. but i have to think at the end of the day, republicans don't want a crazy person representing them in congress. >> there you go again. this is strictly out of the liberal playbook. >> clark, a credible democrat, running against michele bachmann. she represents her constituency in the state senate and will likely beat michele bachmann this time around. bought this is last licks for michele bachmann. the republican party would be foolish to think this is the best foot forward they could possibly have. >> adam green and matt lewis, thanks, as always.

we appreciate it. >> thank you. alex, doni don't know. if you have somebody in congress calling somebody crazy er thals. when someone from congress says something flat-out false, there's a problem there. >> i'm not saying crazy is so great. it will come back and haunt you when you're on the receiving end of that. but you're right. my reaction sometimes is, what? no one sees that. i'm just somewhat chagrinned. up next -- seven years after her abduction, elizabeth smart testifies about what happened. and she reveals new details she never told anyone, including her parents. let me tell you, after herring these details, her parents must be heartbroken. you're watching "the big picture" on msnbc. of vegetables. consider this... the express route. v8. what's your number?

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seven years after abduction, elizabeth smart has given a

detailed account of what happened as she was held captive. >> smart is now 21 years old and took the stand today for the first time in a federal hearing to determine if brian david mitchell is competent to stand trial. she says mitchell is the man who kidnapped her at knifepoint in 2002. during her emotional testimony, she told the court details she had not even told her parents. >> there were certainly a lot of things that i had never heard before, and i had -- i had no idea what she had gone through so much out there. >> smart described mitchell as, quote, evil, wicked and manipulative among other things. he has twice been found incompetent for trial in state court. >> alex, it's almost 4:00 on the east coast, and we're just getting started. up next -- president obama and today's historic talks on iran. this looks like a potential breakthrough, but is it a false start or real game-changer as

far as iran's concessions on their nuclear program? we'll talk about that, david, plus hundreds of people dead after the massive earthquake in indonesia. the death toll is expected to rise. why are so many quakes happening right now? and does the u.s. need a new strategy in afghanistan? what general david petraeus told our own brian williams today. brian will join us live. this is "the big picture" on msnbc. we put our economy in the hands of hostile nations. we let big oil make record profits... while we struggle. and we lose new energy jobs, that go overseas. but we can take charge of our economy... by passing strong clean energy legislation. 1.7 million new american jobs. less carbon pollution. and a cleaner america for our children. it's time for clean american energy.

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