go. and he clearly was not absolutely totally convinced. i've never known what exactly the relationship was between daley and obama when it came to discussing the olympics. caricatures of chicago politics aside, these guys are not particularly close. there is not any great reservoir of gratitude on the part of obama toward the mayor. but there is a big dinner tonight. i emailed one of the key participants and asked a simple question, did the mayor call the president and the e-mail from copenhagen was that, yes, the mayor called personally to make the case. >> i like the mayor of chicago. sit possible we can get the olympic bid, we can win it? is it worth a try? >> yeah, it's possible. it came from way back, rio and madrid were the front-runners and now it's close. it's a wacky voting system and

key to this will be two things. the african bloc, what will they do? because they're the independent voters in this. they don't have a candidate. where will they go and where will the losers on the first round go? will it be tokyo or madrid? >> i think we are going to get it. >> and the president gets the win? >> the argument to obama was, if you don't go, we won't get it. >> i think there's something wrong with rio. be right back. join us again tomorrow night. i'll be on jay leno tonight on nbc. good evening, americans. welcome to "the ed show" mere on msnbc. we got a democrat with some guts. i'm a big fan of congressman alan grayson as in no gray area. he'll join us in a moment for a conversation. isn't it interesting how the republicans are just so

offended, they're kicking up dust over grayson's comments. grayson said the republican health care plan is don't get sick, and if you do get sick, die quickly. he's relating to a lot of people. now, when asked to apologize, this is a classic, this is how you apologize to the righties. >> several republicans asked me to apologize. well, i would like to apologize, i would like to apologize to the dead. and here's why. according to this study, health insurance and mortality in u.s. adults, which was published two weeks ago, 44,789 americans die every year because they have no health insurance. that is more than 10 times the number of americans who died in the war in iraq. it's more than ten times the number of americans who died in 9/11. i apologize to the dead and their families that we haven't voted sooner to end this holocaust in america. >> when you throw facts to conservatives, they don't know how to handle it.

i want to thank the congressman from florida for reminding us that this debate is not about cost curves and projections, it's about life or death. that's what it is. it's life or death. if you're the person who just got a pink slip and a cancer diagnosis, that was the story told to minority leader eric kanter for which he had no answer. the republicans have jumped on this because they really don't want to talk about health care reform. they want to talk about how the democrats are so mean all the time. frankly, i think it's mean spirited for the republican lead tore say to a person who has cancer go beg for charity. the congressman spoke from his heart. this wasn't some outburst. this wasn't flippant. he took it to them by the rules and he doesn't have to apologize

to anybody for anything. and you know what? there's a lot of lefties around this country in their living rooms tonight saying yes, this is how you got to handle these folks! the republicans are demanding apologies for the same reason they're offering amendments about czars. they have nothing to offer into the health care debate. joining us tonight is congressman alan grayson, the new hero on the lefty bloc. congressman, good to have you with us tonight. >> thanks, ed. big fan of yours as well. listen to you on satellite radio all the time. >> that would be channel 167. all right. congressman, do you take anything back? are we going to see more of this? >> absolutely not. the people who should be apologizing are republicans, for dragging us all through the mud here while we're just trying to improve health care in america. that's all we're trying to do. >> the thing i liked and it is you had charts. this was planned out.

you must have known this was going to kick up a lot of dust. did you fire and fire for effect? >> listen, ed, we have to get past this point where everything is stalled. where the republicans are winning just through inertia. we have the majority and have to use it. we have to change america. >> congressman, i'm sure you're aware how they're pushing back on you. the national republican campaign has said this about you, they're going after your character, and i think they're trumping up a bunch of stuff. this is an unstable man who has come unhinged. the depths of which alan grayson will sink to defend his indensible comments know no bounds. this is an individual who has established a pathological pattern of unstable behavior. what is your response to that, congressman? this is character assassination. >> my response is, whatever. america is sick of you republican party. you are a lie factory, that's

all you ever do. work together with the democrats to solve america's problems instead of making stuff up. >> well, they are making it up. not to offend you, but we did go back and check your background and we did find out that you are a harvard grad, correct? >> that's right. >> and you also worked with judge scalia, correct? >> samong others, yes. and the president's council and justice ginsburg and when i finished working with her, i worked with her husband's law firm. >> and you also put together a successful business before you ran for office. so you came from the private sector to do what you're doing in washington right now. >> that's right. a multibillion dollar business traded on the new york stock exchange. >> okay. so what we have here is a classic example of character assassination. we also checked your background. you don't have anything in your background at all about unstable behavior. i want the american people to

know this is how they play the game, when you have the courage to come out and stick it to them with the facts, and the fact is that people in this country are dying because they are sick and being excluded for coverage because of a preexisting condition. this is a sound cut from nancy pelosi about who ought to apologize. >> apparently they are holding the democrats to a higher level than they are holding their own members because you have seen the statements regularly made by republicans on the floor about issues that relate to death. there's no more reason for mr. grayson to apologize than -- if anybody is going to apologize, everybody should apologize. but let's just -- the point has been made. it's time to talk about health care. typically, the republicans would like to use this as a distraction from the fact that they have no plan. >> congressman, i think you'll agree with all of that.

i just want to know from you tonight, are you going to continue to be on the offensive and not back down? because right now on liberal talk radio across america, you're the guy people have been waiting for. we have folks in the media that get after the righties but you really stuck it to them. is this going to continue? >> it sure will. these people have no answers for anything. i said that two days ago, 48 hours ago. i said there is no republican plan and here sit 48 hours later and there's still no republican plan. >> congressman, what do you say to those trying to develop a narrative that oh, this congressman grayson is going to be in a tough re-election bid next year and he's doing this to get attention, what is your response to that? >> if i have to choose between my job and saving the lives of 44,000 americans a year, i know what my decision is. >> and the response you've gotten from americans around the country has been encouraging? >> overwhelmingly positive and thousands have already contributed to our campaign in

the last 24 hours. >> i can't work every day, but would you do my radio show one day when i'm gone? because i got some pheasant hunting coming up. >> i would love to do your show. >> keep up the good fight. i love it when we get a democrat that calls them out, because that's what this is all about. >> we need democrats with guts. >> no doubt about it. alan grayson, democrat from florida. the republicans are nothing but a bunch of hypocrites, got that? they're saying health care reform will lead to death panels and euthanizing seniors. one final point, for all of the prognostication that's going on about the midterms, oh, grayson is doing this because he might hurt the democrats in the midterms, the hell with that. this guy is what it is about. we're a year away from midterms. i want to know how you folks

feel about this. i want to know if you think will congressman grayson's comments help or hurt the democrats when it comes to passing reform. i think he's the guy we've been waiting fochlt coming up with us right now, john nichols, washington correspondent for the nation, and jonathan alter, author of "the defining moment, fdr's 100 days." john, do the democrats need more of this, are they crying for this kind of approach? >> they need a lot more of this. they've been losing the fight on health care. there can't be an easier sell in america than giving people the health care they need. why are they losing? because they've pulled punches for the better part of eight or nine months. alan grayson threw a punch and it connected. >> jonathan, do you agree with

this strategy? he said it's a no back down moment for the democrats. how do you think this will play out? >> i agree with him, as long as it's limited to your program, cable tv, speaking in his district, whatever. i don't like it on the floor. i agree with nancy pelosi. i think everybody should apologize for blaming the other side for death, whether it's death panels or what congressman grayson said and try to keep it civil on the floor. that's the way the founders wanted it and consistent with the traditions of the american republic. but in terms of stopping acting like panzys, which too in democrats have for a long time, it's greet and great for him to speak out. >> do you think he was not civil on the floor, jonathan? do you think he went over the top? >> i do. on the floor he went over the top where he's basically accusing the republicans of favoring the death of people.

the statistics are right. it's that extra, you know, twist that lays the dead bodies at their feet that takes you into the realm of, you know, what you could call uncivil dialogue. that just rubs all the wounds raw. we can get health insurance, we can be tough without engaging in that kind of language. but there's no reason for him to apologize, because the republicans, as he pointed out, have done much, much worse on the floor over many, many years. and it's also true the reason that wilson had to apologize is because it was very personal about the president of the united states who was in the chamber at the time. so for them to compare this to joe wilson is preposterous. >> but the key here is, he was calling them out on a policy, he was calling them out on the lack of a plan. so i'm thinking he was inbounds

because americans are dying. what do you think? >> let me remind jonathan alter that the third vice president of the united states was in a duel and shot. >> that wasn't good. >> it wasn't good, jonathan. but the founders were not into civility. there's not only no need for apology. i think this is what you take to the floor. the american people see this health care debate as so vague, so empty right now. they need some real facts and real passion. >> what about the character assassination on this man, the response by the national republican committee on this. >> i think if there is a need for an apology at this point, this is the place. if they cannot back that up and say yes, here's our evidence of unstable behavior on the part of this congressman, then yeah, there should be an apology. >> is this a new low for the republicans or any time anybody challenges them on any kind of policy or having a plan they start saying this guy is

unstable? there is nothing in this congressman's background that would lead anybody in the medical profession to believe that he has got a pathological pattern of unstable behavior. >> it's not a new low because they've been awfully low before. but it's definitely below the belt. what happens is, it just escalates. i just have to disagree with john nichols on this. yeah, alexander hamilton and aaron burr had a duel. but why do we have these traditions? my distinguished colleague from south carolina, the esteemed gentlemen from pennsylvania. why were those put? because democracy does demand when you're in the congress, in our sacred halls, a certain level of civility. cable tv does not demand that. >> neither does talkradio.

>> i think it's great for the democrats to come back real muscular on talkradio and talk this way. >> senator bernie sanders said the real opposition to the health care reform is coming from right wing talkradio because the democrats have not been muscular enough. there was nothing uncivil about saying people who are denied health care die. >> thanks for joining us tonight. if i could just add, i love the charts, because that means it was planned. he knew exactly what he was going to say, he knew exactly how he was going to say. it's a successful attorney, a great presenter. we need more of that guy on the floor. thanks, fell lees. the republicans want the speaker to reign in people like grayson. congressman brian of california, we'll go head-to-head. plus, the president leaves tonight for copenhagen to make the pitch for the olympics in

chicago. righties say the trip is an unnecessary distraction. i call it a brilliant plan. stephen a. smith joins me on that. and the drugster says he's never met a happy liberal. he says we're angry, deranged lunatics. no, no, no, rush, you're looking in the mirror. you're watching "the ed show" on msnbc. stay with us. national car rental knows i'm picky. so, at national, i go right past the counter... and you get to choose any car in the aisle. choose any car? you cannot be serious! okay. seriously, you choose. go national. go like a pro. crunch. wheat thins. that's what's gonna happen here. because you're tasty... with toasty whole grains. (crunch) wheat thins. toasted. whole grain. crunch. have at it.

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welcome back to "the ed show." president obama is about to leave for copenhagen to help chicago win the 2016 olympics. i think it's great that the president is showing his patriotism in pushing to bring the olympics back to the united states. but proving that they can find a negative in absolutely everything, the republicans are still jumping all over the president for his 18-hour trip to denmark. for more, let me bring in journalist stephen a. smith on this one tonight. good to have you with us. >> always. >> do you think the american people are okay with the president getting involved in this and trying to seal the deal for his hometown?

>> of course they are. i don't think there's any question about it. obviously you're going to have a few million people that have a problem with it, but that's only because they have a problem with him. of the 69 million votes he got to win the presidency of the united states, there were 59 million people that voted for john mccain. so there's a lot of people out there that will find any excuse to find a problem with the president and that's the way it goes. >> to underscore that, this is whatever you want to call him, glenn beck, this is his argument why chicago should not get the olympics. >> i'm trying to figure this out. vancouver lost how much was it? they lost a billion dollars when they had the olympics. >> well, actually the olympics there aren't until 2010. this is going to be an economic shot in the arm. but it continues from the hard right. this is house leader john boehner ripping into the president for this move as well. here it is.

>> while the president is in copenhagen tomorrow, the american people are going to wake up and find out that hundreds of thousands more americans have lost their jobs. the administration's trillion dollar stimulus plan clearly is not working. >> why are the republicans going so hard on this, stephen a.? >> it's a little bit of desperation. in 1984, they made money from the olympics in los angeles. in 1996, they made money in atlanta, georgia. in 2002, they made money from the winter olympics in salt lake city. when you consider the fact that it's expected to be a $13.7 billion benefit to the city of chicago, particularly the state of illinois as well, that the olympics are there, there's no question that you make this move because you've got to go for it. in terms of the republicans and being direct with your question, the reality is, again, it shows a little bit of desperation. there's so many things you can point to, whether you agree or

disagree with the united states, there's a lot of issues, cap and trade, the war in afghanistan, universal health care. there are a lot of things that they can stick to and stick to their guns and go in that direction. one of the reasons republicans have problems is because they engage in pettiness on far too many occasions. the ones who are that way, end up being seen as individuals who speak for the party and that's a problem. >> and they're short on memory, my friend. george bush spent 490 days in crawford. >> if the olympics -- if texas was bidding for the olympics, you best believe the bush family would have something to say about it. >> stephen a. smith with us tonight here on "the ed show." good to see you, my man. up next, rush limbaugh takes "psycho talk" to another level. he says the democrats are obsessed with death. i say it's about time for a straitjacket for the drugsters. it's all coming up in "psycho

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announcer: campbell's healthy request. m'm! m'm! good! for your heart. welcome back to "the ed show." "psycho talk." tonight, a regular. the drugster's back. this guy spews more garbage in under a minute than most of us in a lifetime. listen to this. >> i don't believe anybody in this country is dying because of

a lack of health insurance. and the democrat party is obsessed with death. life? no. abortion, slavery, subordination of government. pursuit of happiness? not possible. i've yet to meet a happy liberal. they're angry, deranged lunatics. they don't want to enjoy life. >> hold it right there, now. this is exactly why we have this segment on this show, "psycho talk." so much to talk about here. let's take it one section at a time. here it is. >> i don't believe anybody in this country is dying because of a lack of health insurance. >> okay, drugster, flat out wrong. the american journal of public health released a study last month that found a lack of health insurance leads to 45,000

deaths a year in this country, the united states. that's one unnecessary death every 12 minutes. the next part, here it is. >> the democrat party is obsessed with death. >> no, we're not. members of your party, drugster, have been just freaking hollering about fictional death panels for months. but the democrats are obsessed with death? i don't think so. come on. one last part here, here it is. >> i've yet to meet a happy liberal. they're angry, deranged lunaticed. they don't want to enjoy life. >> angry. rush, i want to report to you tonight and all you conservatives out there that listen to this goof ball that all of us here at msnbc, we're happy. we like what we do. in fact, i'm going pheasant hunting next weekend. rush, we all enjoy life. but you see, we're liberals.

we want people to enjoy the same opportunities and for that to happen, the first thing they have to have is quality health insurance so they can afford to go out and enjoy themselves and not spend their money on trying to fix themselves up medically, which your party doesn't want to have happen. i'm going to keep fighting for the health care bill until congress gets it done and if that makes me angry or deranged, we don't care. i want to improve the lives of fellow americans and so do all liberals. rush, this is serious "psycho talk." coming up, the senate finance committee will vote on max baucus' health care bill tomorrow. will any republicans vote for it? plus, an innocent man, seriously here, an innocent man may have been executed in texas. and now governor rick perry, who

allowed that execution to go forward, has removed three people from the panel investigating the case. legendary lawyer berry shek is on the case and he joins me. you've worked all your life. as the decades have past, the promise of medicare has always been there. and aarp has fought to guarantee none of the benefits you earned were ever taken away. today we're continuing that fight by protecting your freedom to choose the doctors and treatments you need. and to have your tax dollars go towards your care-- not insurance company subsidies. you've done your work. and we'll keep doing ours. learn more at aarp.org.

we got some breaking news tonight dealing with health care. welcome back to "the ed show" on msnbc. big headline just posted on huffington post. the senate finance committee narrowly passed an amendment moments ago from senator maria cantwell from washington that moves the conservative panel as close as it likely will get to the public health insurance option. it creates a federally funded plan to compete with the private insurance companies. it got the support of chairman max baucus and senator kent conrad and passed the committee by only one vote.

senator cantwell joins us now. great to have you with us. >> thank you, ed. >> you know, give us, the detail of this. what was in this amendment that moved max baucus and kent conrad? >> i think, ed, we hit the sweet spot. that is to say we are going to provide leverage by giving states the opportunities to opt in and they are going to do it by negotiating with private insurers. so you're taking the best of practises that exist today to drive down insurance prices. when we put that on the table, people saw that is what has happened in my state and what we can deliver for americans. >> give us an example, what is happening in your state, is there one company that has the bulk of the business, is that what it is? >> no, what happens is someone -- if you think about it, individuals right to go and negotiate with insurers, they're not getting anywhere. so when you come in with a big population, as we have done in washington state, and say the

state is going to negotiate and you want access to this 100,000 people, you better give us the best price, that kind of negotiations have driven down the price 30% to 40%. so we want to see that same type of leverage used against insurance companies in other parts of the country. >> so this means we're going to have 50 different scenarios that play out. states can get in or out of this option, is that right? >> that's right. i would like something that's even more robust, but this is what we could get passed. you're going to have democrat and republican governors saying you respect going to negotiate to drive down my insurance cost? governor also say if i can drive down the cost of insurance for my state, i'm going to do it. >> so all politics is local. the senate finance committee wants to put it back to the governors to duke it out to bring rates down, is that correct? >> well, i can say this, that we

have efficient health care and we've driven down the cost. so i would like us to be more aggressive at the federal level. at a minimum, i want somebody in that ring fighting on behalf of the consumers to drive down costs. and i think that what we'll see is many states moving towards this model, and being successful at implementing what is a public plan and will drive prices down. >> is each state going to be given some federal money to start this program and who is going to administer each one of these? >> the state administers the program. and we were giving federal dollars to do it. what i don't like about the bill right now, we were going to give a subsidy to say you or your neighbor or my neighbor in seattle and they were going to take that check as a subsidy to an insurer and say how much can i get for this? they aren't going to get anywhere with the insurance

companies. now that population bands together and says, you want access to my population, what's the best price? and that is what really is going to help us. we have seen instead of paying $5,000, $6,000 for premiums, we've seen individuals paying only $3,000. >> so you're convinced that this model will hold premiums in check, so to speak, because there's going to be new competition in the market. how do you think this is going to be received by the insurance industry? >> it's going to hold down costs because there's going to be a negotiator to demand prices come down. >> i thought that's what insurance commissioners were supposed to do. >> but if you want access, ed, if you want access to the market, if you have buyers, how much do you drive down the price of anything if you only have two buyers or 50 buyers? now if you have tens of

thousands of buyers, you're going to drive down costs. >> senator, you call it a sweet spot and this is a big break. could we frame it as that? do you think there's some real movement here? >> well, ed, i'm a mountain climber. this is a big mountain to climb, health care cost. this is a very good foothold. it's a start and we need to keep working. >> senator, thanks so much for joining us tonight. >> thank you. for more, let's bring in our panel. obviously, we have to get to the detail and we'll do that. jamal simmons is joining us tonight. also, republican strategist john feury. john, from what you heard there, i know this, from the way it's all been set up, to move max baucus and kent conrad on this issue means it must be a detailed amendment that is going to satisfy these conservative democrats. from what you heard, what do you think? is this new light on the

situation? >> i think the senator put it right, this is just a foothold on a tall mountain. we'll see how this looks coming out of the committee and getting to the senate floor. i guaranty that this whole process is going to be evolving. i think ed, you're right, and she's right in the sense that competition is key to driving down costs. that's why republicans have always believed you need to have associated health plans and be able to have plans across state lines so we can have more competition. competition is the key to driving down costs. so that sounds like a good plan. you have some skepticism, a lot of other people do from the left and right. we'll see what happens. >> from an administrative stand point, i want to know how 50 different plans or 50 different stateks do this for the good of the people and who knows how it works out? a.b., the two people that came onboard, and the vote was by one, conrad and baucus, from what you know of it, do you think this might move any

republicans on the senate finance committee, what do you think? >> i think that we'll have faith that republicans can be budged when they start budging. so farp, their opposition has been so unanimous and so unbreakable that it will be -- it would be an interesting provision that you can call a public option, i think, on the senate side with republicans opposition, that it would get republican votes. we don't know if this is something that can make the long haul, end up in a final bill and end up becoming law. it sounds hard to admin stir. i think that the democrats are looking around, conservatives alike, saying what if we do hand out these subsidies? and we don't drive down costs? so you're seeing movement to approach the cost issue. >> jamal simmons, big insurance,

big medical, they donate on a local level as well, no question about that. are we to trust republican legislatures and also republican governors that they're going to be fair players in all of this and level in big business? >> here's what's interesting about this plan from what we know about it, and you made a very good point, ed. i want to hear -- if this holds true, i want to hear the republicans make an argument that you cannot let the states make a decision about whether or not they want to opt in to a public option. this might be something that breaks through. i think governors who have budgets that are ballooning are going to have a hard time saying i'm not going to negotiate for the best prices for our citizens. >> let's switch subjects here quickly. there's been a lot of talk about leadership on the republican side. a lot of rhetoric flying around in this country, a lot of accusations. today in washington on a panel,

this is senator lindsey graham talking about the guy across the street on fox. here it is. >> here's what the republican party has to do. this is a good point. we have to say that's crazy. so i'm here to tell you that those who think the president was born other than hawaii, you're crazy. he's not a muslim. he's a good man. but we're not going to be impeded by nuts. that's not our problem. glenn beck is not aligned with any party, as far as i can tell. he's aligned with cynicism. and there's always been a market for cynicism. but we became a great nation not because we were a nation of cynics, we became a nation because we were a nation of believers. >> john, your response to that? >> well, first of all, i like lindsey graham. i think he speaks truth as he

sees it. i would say that glenn beck would admit he's not a republican. i think he is an entertainer in a sense and someone who has very high ratings, but he says things that some people don't like. i think you speak your mind, i think glenn beck speaks your mind. i don't think you're necessarily a democrat, i don't think glenn beck is a republican. i think lindsey graham is right when he says we have to confront things like the birther movement. barack obama is an american. he's president. we have to deal with that. and on so many issues, we can compete with the president that we don't necessarily have to rely on all this other crap that doesn't matter. we need to focus on real issues. >> a.b., how did you take his comments? i took it as it's time to stop the train and redefine who the heck we are and cut to the chase that we're not associated with the crazy talk. what do you think? >> senator graham has always been very bold and after the 2008 elections he did speak very

publicly after supporting john mccain about coming to together and how to attract the voters that the party lost last year, losing to a broad coalition that the obama and democrats won. i think the problem here is this, until you have leaders, senator graham is obviously not a leader in the republican party. until you have the leaders coming out and saying we need to stop talk thing way and calling out people who say things that are untrue about the president, senator graham is going to be fighting a lonely battle. >> and finally, jamal, can we say that the republicans and glenn beck have one thing in common that they want president obama to fail? >> that's the kind of rhetoric the republicans have to figure out how to adopt. one thing about lindsey graham, he also stood up on torture from

long ago, he and john mccain stood up on the issue of torture that america shouldn't do it. so the republicans have got to decide that they are not in bed with these crazy whackos on the right if they ever want hope of winning the hearts and minds of the middle people back. >> it's limbaugh as well, talkradio in this country has pushed the narrative that barack obama is not an american, was not born, you know the birther movement and everything else. so i think this is a big statement by the senator from south carolina. panel, thanks for joining us tonight. texas governor rick perry is under fire for taking people off a panel investigating. it's a texas execution took place and a man was innocent. berry shek is going to be joining me to talk about this whole situation in texas when we come back.

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insured by united healthcare insurance company. call now for your free information kit... and medicare guide and find out... how you could start saving. texas governor rick perry may have allowed an innocent man to be executed. now he's trying to prevent an investigation into the case. here's the storey. in 2004, a man named cameron todd willingham was executed for setting a fire that killed his three daughters. last year, the innocence project investigated the case and concluded that his conviction was based on invalid information. the texas forensic science commission was supposed to hold a hearing on the case tomorrow. it's looking into whether or not that arson evidence was valid. but yesterday, governor rick perry suddenly dismissed three of the commission's members, forcing them to cancel the meeting. joining me now is berry shek,

co-director of the innocence project. great to see you. innocence project is? >> it's an independent non-profit corporation, but we're affiliated with a law school, and we have worked to exonerate with post conviction dna testing most of the 242 people that have been exonerated in this country and 105 individuals that were identified committed the crimes with the dna test. >> what's wrong with this case? >> this is a case where cameron todd willingham was executed for an arson murder based on invalid arson evidence. evidence that i think any scientist now in this country would conclude was invalid science. governor perry, just before the execution, received an affidavit from an arson expert named gerald hurst who said the evidence used to convict

willingham is junk science and he denied the stay. >> is this him replacing the panel, removing the panel at this time just before they were getting ready to investigate, what would you compare that to? is this a bold move? >> this is the saturday night massacre all over again, and for our younger viewers, that's when president nixon fired the special prosecutor because he was going to seek to get the watergate tapes. this is just governor perry trying to prevent this commission from taking a report from an arson expert that the commission itself appointed to see whether or not this was valid scientific evidence. >> the governor saying he's working within his powers on this, that he's okay on this. >> what you have to understand is the forensic science commission was originally passed by the legislature in the state of texas because of all these problems in the crime lab. and the commission, of it was passed, governor perry dragged his feet for close to a year before appointing anybody.

after he appointed people to the panel, he delayed another few years and tried to prevent them from getting funded. now that they got funded, the very first case they took up was the willingham case because of its importance. and after the commission appointed its own independent expert who came back with a report that clearly said that willingham was convicted based on witchcraft, just as the hearing was supposed to happen this friday, perry chose to replace the head of the forensic science commission and two other members just before the hearing. >> now, he points out in a statement tonight from his deputy press secretary that the parole board never recommended clemency for willingham. >> the parole board th? that's one of the problems in texas. that part of the system is broken. but there is no excuse for perry himself not to have looked at

this affidavit from the arson expert. what's extraordinary, ed, is there was an article in ""the new yorker"" that was extraordinary that reviewed all the evidence in the willingham case, not just the arson evidence, but a reporter who was skeptical, he spent months on the story, interviewed everybody. he wrote an extremely powerful piece, headlines all over the state of texas, editorials? the houston chronicle about the willingham case. and then perry decides to eliminate this commission just before the report comes out. >> quickly, in all your years, ever seen anything like this? >> only when nixon fired archibald cox. >> thanks so much. next up, the main event. republicans want the speaker to reign in people like alan grayson. the congressman who was so outspoken. i say stop pointing fingers and

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we have a majority, we have to use it. we have to change america. that's the promise that president obama made. we have to keep it. if i have to choose between my job and saving the lives of 44,000 americans a year, i know what my decision is. >> that was congressman alan grayson leading off the program tonight here on "the ed show." he's not backing off his comments and he's not apologizing for them. joining me now is republican

congressman from california, brian billary. congressman, if you were to go to the house floor and give your opinion and not break any rules, why would anybody expect any apology, where is the out of bounds on this deal? >> first of all, ed, remember, members of congress on the floor have special protection understand the constitution. even the freedom of press doesn't protect you from slander. we are protected on the floor. alan knew he was going over the floor when he drafted up these documents. he knew he wanted to push the button and he got what he wanted. he wanted to push the envelope far beyond what i know anybody would have to say that a congressman saying today that there's a holocaust occurring in america on american soil today is going over the limit. i think anyone would agree. he went over that line. there's a lot of times that goes over the line, but those of us in congress have