america. >> they were out -- [ cheers and applause ] >> why are some conservatives so eager to see america fail? >> plus, adventure sports monday. the bungee jump that went very wrong. . >> good afternoon, everyone, i'm tamron hall. >> and i'm david schuster live in washington. >> we have an update on the breaking news from the university of south florida. nbc affiliate wfla is now reporting there are two people in custody after someone reported a person with a bomb and a gun near the library. police called in a tampa police bomb team about 90 minutes after they received a call about a possible gunman on campus. police say they also got information about a possible intruder on a bus and in the library. officers are still questioning people on the scene. the entire campus remains on alert as we speak, and students are being told, they need to stay inside, lock their doors, and report any suspicious

activity. we're going to bring you more on this breaking story as we get the information in. >> tamron, president obama is meeting one-on-one in the oval office with defense secretary robert gates, and there are a lot of very difficult issues on the table. over the weekend, eight u.s. soldiers were killed in afghanistan when the outpost they were preparing to leave in the next few weeks came under taliban fire. nearly 200 taliban militia reportedly surrounding mountainsides attacked the u.s. position with gunfire, rocket propelled grenades and mortar fire and launched part of the attack from a nearby mosque. >> the president and the first lady send their condolences and are deeply saddened by the combat deaths that we heard about in afghanistan over the weekend. i think it's important, though, to understand that the assessment that's being discussed does not envision more

troops in outposts or places like the one that was attacked. >> the attack, though, was so intense that this out post that u.s. helicopters were unable to get in to rescue wounded soldiers were several hours, eventually usair craft and predator drones joined the fight. dozens of taliban were killed, and security was reestablished. but this was the deadliest day for troops in afghanistan in over a year. meanwhile, the top u.s. commander in afghanistan, stanley mcchrystal, was publicly rebuked over the weekend by president obama's national security advisor, jim jones. mccountries california gave a speech, saying any plan that falls short of stabilizing afghanistan is probably short-sighted. jones rebuked mcchrystal for speaking out of school. >> ideally, it's better for military advice to come up through the chain of command.

and i think that general mcchrystal and the others in the chain of command will present the president with not just one option, which does, in fact, tend to have a -- you know, forcing function, but a range of options that the president can consider. >> by all accounts, president obama's decision on afghanistan is not going to be easy, unlike iraq, 98% of the afghans are ill literate. the country is one of the poorest on earth, and one of the stories that worked in iraq, such as dealing with tribal leaders are not a possibility in afghanistan. earlier today, defense secretary gates urged patience and backed up the comment from jones requesting that u.s. commanders give advice to the president in private. >> so it is important that we take our time to do all we can to get this right. and in this process, it is imperative that all of us taking part in these deliberations, civilians and military alike, provide our best advice to the

president candidly, but privately. >> nbc news correspondent chuck jones joins us live. we're seeing one campaign by mcchrystal to give us troops and the other by jones and secretary gates being more circumspect and waiting to see what press wants to do. >> as you might expect, the white house is trying to dial back the interpretation that all of us are making of what we heard from general jones yesterday, and from secretary gates today, that this is a rebuke of general mcchrystal, that this is an overall reminder to everybody involved in the strategy to try to keep these options private. you know, one other interesting nugget that was out there today that we all -- we ought to always remind our viewers about, robert gibbs was repeatedly asked from helen thomas about whether we're actually going to pull out of afghanistan. he said, look, we're not pulling out of afghanistan. so the question is, are we going to send more troops there, or is this going to be a new strategy

that emphasizes the global war. tomorrow, david, the president is going to the national counterterrorism center. sort of -- if you're a fan of the movie -- the show "the 24," sort of this interagency center where intelligence gets shared internationally, as well as domestically to try to deal with terrorism worldwide. and one of of the things you're going to hear from the president is how they have accomplished attacking members of al qaeda and key cells all over the world from indonesia to east africa to, of course, that fuzzy border in afghanistan and pakistan, david. >> nbc news white house correspondent chuck todd. chuck, thanks as always. fascinating stuff. >> and the bigger picture, the domestic politics over afghanist afghanistan, a bill has been signed to increase troop levels in afghanistan. democratic congresswoman barbara lee introduced the bill, the legislation comes as president

obama we know weighs a request by general mcchrystal for an additional 40,000 troops in that country. he did not sign congresswoman lee's bill. thank you so much for joining us. >> thank you. >> and let me ask you at the top, why did you decide not to sign on? >> i think the president needs flexibility in terms of making his decision and we shouldn't prejudge in advance by saying he can't increase troops or he should lower the level of troops. i think he needs to take his time, and we should give him that flexibility. >> do you think more troops are necessary at this point? i know we saw eight american lives lost as they were ambushed by members of the taliban. are you leaning toward supporting as many as 40,000 new troops there? >> i would support the president. if he thinks that we need more troops because we don't, you know, want to have our troops in a situation where they're overwhelmed, then i would support it. i really think that this is a situation where we shouldn't be

very ideological about it. whatever the best situation on the ground, that should prevail. >> congressman, what do you make of the -- i don't know, the competing messages that we're hearing? there was stanley mcchrystal at his speech in london describing joe biden's plan for afghanistan as chaosistan and rebuke by general jones, and the white house refuse to go get into it. what do you make of this? >> i think it depends on your goal. obviously, the vice president is concerned about al qaeda, and he feels that al qaeda's presence in pakistan is the main thing we should be concerned about. on the other hand, there are those who feel we need to improve the situation in afghanist afghanistan, not just militarily, but also in terms of developing assistance and nation-building. there are a lot of different goals here, and the president basically has to decide what the goal is. obviously, the prime goal is to prevent the resurgence of al qaeda. >> but do we have a discipline problem right now about the chain of command as far as the

message in all of this? >> i don't think so. i think that different people are giving the president advice, and he has to make a decision. i don't think it's necessarily bad that there's a lot of different advice out there, because he should take his time, and make a decision. >> but congressman, time can mean lives there. how soon should the president stand up and say what strategy this country will pursue in afghanistan? >> i think he has at least a few more weeks, if not a month or so. many i mean, the situation, according to general mcchrystal, has deteriorated, but he's not saying that, you know, a decision has to be imminent. so i think the president should take his time, and it may be that it takes a few more weeks to make a decision. >> all right. thank you very much, congressman frank palone, we appreciate it. david, to the point regarding time, it was mcchrystal who said waiting was not prolonging a favorable outcome. the definition of waiting, some of the articles i've been reading certainly ranges. but after what we saw over the weekend in the taliban and ambushing those soldiers they

knew were leaving that area, i think it may have to expedite any decision here. >> absolutely. and certainly an impatience right now in the republican caucus on capitol hill, and a growing impatience in the democratic caucus to get some guidance as far as what direction they're going to move. so this one is going to be a fascinating one to watch. tamron, right now david letterman is in the middle of taping his first show since his bombshell announcement last thursday. so far, no word on whether he is going to say anymore about his revelation that he had sexual relations with female staffers or about the alleged attempt to extort $2 million from him. the suspected extortionist "48 hours" producer robert haldderman was arrested in a sting operation in which letterman provided a fake $2 million check. meantime, it's been widely reported that halderman's former girlfriend who worked on the "letterman" show was one of those involved with the comedian. joining us is msnbc.com's courtney hazelette who writes

"the scoop." will women viewers turn away from letterman? any indication there is a problem? >> i really don't think cbs has a major problem on their hands as far as women viewers are concerned, david. i don't think that it comes as a huge shock that this has happened. that two adults carrying on a relationship that maybe they shouldn't have. but that's not at all surprising. you know, that the talk show host, one of the most popular in the country, might have had some sort of outside relationship with a staffer. what is surprising, though, is just the details of this extortion case, and we haven't seen all of those unfold yet, so it will be interesting over time as those become public, whether letterman will weigh in or not on those. and i think if he's smart, he's not going to talk about this again. >> courtney from msnbc.com. thanks. we appreciate it. tamron, a lot of people are saying why are you doing this story? there is so much you can learn about the story in terms of crisis management and also in terms of inner office responsibilities and where do

you draw the line in had terms of pressure from management and relationships they may have. >> and he has a lot of viewers. a lot of people watch this man on television. he's -- was a middle of america, indiana kid, made big. and quite honestly, his monologue has certainly included mocking scandals involving other people. so when the table is turned, people talk about you. >> absolutely. coming up, talking about you, presidential punch lines. the folks at "saturday night live" had some fun at president obama's expense. but do they make a serious point and a legitimate point about his agenda? >> your question also, david. jobs, jobs, jobs. where are they? can the white house put the brakes on rising unemployment without a second stimulus? yes. the second stimulus conversation is back. and then there's this. >> ron mcdonald can communicate. the other people that i talk to, and especially his --

>> a political race gets ugly as one of the wealthiest women in america makes fun of a democratic candidate's stutter. you're watching "the big picture" on msnbc. squeeze some savings back into our budget. into our attics and walls. let's locate the original energy source called you and turn that machine up full-blast. more saving. more doing. that's the power of the home depot. come get 50% more savings on insulation with the new lower price of just $9.37 per roll. come get 50% more savings on insulation prepare your mouth for a battle against germs. protect your mouth right

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president obama will address the human rights campaign fund-raising dinner on saturday night. the nation's largest gay rights group. the dinner is honoring the late senator ted kennedy. many gay and lesbian activists have been critical of president obama because they believe he has not fulfilled campaign promises at many lgbt people such as repealing the military's don't ask-don't tell policy.

the president, of course, has a lot of issues on his plate right now. >> and that's certainly true, david. other campaign promises that have not been realized. here's a list. jobs, health care, financial reform, afghanistan, iraq, guantanamo bay and climate change. and this has not gone unnoticed by the people at "saturday night live." here it is. >> when you look at my record, it's very clear what i've done so far. and that is -- nothing. on my first day in office, i said i would close guantanamo bay. is it closed yet? no. i said we would be out of iraq. are we? not the last time i checked. i said i would make improvements in the war in afghanistan. is it better? no, i think it's actually worse. how about health care reform? hell, no.

>> well, some are asking, does "saturday night live" open the door for other comedians to poke fun of the president, or for republicans to take advantage? keith boinkin is editor for the daily chief. thank you for joining us. we can go through a list of things the president has accomplished, so let's talk about what's out there. did "saturday night live" hit a nerve, because they say it's funny because it's true? >> well, yes and no. i think it's funny. i agree with you on that. but at the same time, i think that it's a little bit unfair, because there's only been nine months of this administration. i worked in the clinton administration, and in the first nine months, he was not able to accomplish half of what i think president obama has been able to accomplish. he tried to put together a stimulus package for $19 billion. he wasn't able to get that through at all. it failed. he couldn't get health care through and obama has gotten a lot farther than clinton did. so i think he has made some progress. >> well, sure, in any administration, not just the clinton administration.

but let's point out guantanamo bay. are you pointing yourself into a hole and not just this president but all politicians. i won't raise your taxes, et cetera, et cetera, and you've got to come back and say gitmo, we're not going to close by that deadline. how does this degrees avoid the pitfalls that we have seen, especially again on these big issues like afghanistan, and we're seeing more lives are being lost in that country? >> well, i think what we're seeing here is the difference between campaigning and governing. when you're campaigning for office, you can promise a lot, and hope that you can actually do that. but once you're actually governing, you have to not only deal with what you promised the public, you have to deal with the other body of the government that is the legislature. and you have the senate, which hasn't been exactly helpful in all these issues and the house that has to go along with this. and even with the democratic controlled congress, it's not that easy to do things, especially when you have opposition from the party who isn't trying to help you out. so i think it's a difficult mission for the president. i don't think it's insurmountable, but he's got some time before people are going to start to wonder whether

he's living up to his promises or not. >> but keith, some of these issues don't even require a congressional involvement. for example, issues of transparency, or finding out who gets access to the white house, or who are part of these meetings. the president said the health care meetings would be televised on c-span. they're not. >> right. you're right. you're exactly right about this, david. let me just say two things. first of all, some issues are perfectly within the president's authority and purview to change immediately. and there are a lot of people on the left, as well as the right, who are concerned about the president's inability to follow through on some issues. on the other hand, it's also true the government is this huge behemoth is not easy to change overnight, and even if you think you can do that as president, it takes a long time to make big change happen. i remember in the cuban missile crisis, that was part of the controversy with the soviets. so -- >> let me ask you, though, something david and i were talking about, needing a fear factor, needing those to know there are consequences. if not that they don't fall in

line, bass because we don't have to fall in line in this country, but certainly you have control in congress, you ran on change, and that puts a high expectation out there. i mean, does there need to be a tougher -- does obama need drama? do they need to lose the drama, and write the drama, and the heat and whatever else? >> i certainly think so. i don't buy into this whole bipartisanship nonsense. i think the white house has been trying to spread. i know i'm speaking on behalf of myself, not on behalf of the party when i say that. >> sure. >> i don't think the republicans are interested in compromising or interested in working with them. i wish the white house would recognize that, and try to push through what they can. but i think that one of the issues the republicans have been very vocal about in terms of international policy is true in terms of domestic policy. that is, it is better to be feared sometimes than to be loved. and i think domestically, i'm not so sure the president is feared by the opposition. i think -- or even by someone in his own party. i think it would be better if he were feared, if he were more aggressive, and less bipartisan. >> all right.

keith boykin, thank you very much. and the genius of the "saturday night live" clip, when they talk about politics, you wonder if they really are speaking from the dinner table of folks at home, if they hit the nail on the head about some of the things people are talking about. >> i think they did. and tamron, you know, president obama has suffered in a sense from the great expectations -- we started the show, playing that clip from the inauguration, such expectations that things would get done quickly and that major things would get done quickly. that even if yes he has accomplished more than president clinton and keep the economy from going off a cliff, expectations are much greater than that. and he suffers from it. >> well, speaking of suffering from something, david. just ahead, dramatic video of a bungee jump that, ooh, went so wrong. >> yeah. and don't worry, we will identify which bungee jumper outfit in thailand was responsible for this. or 100 pringles.

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a lot of things that could be considered news in this world. >> but david, only a few stories that make us say -- >> no way! >> first up, david, musicians for the pop star lady gaga, this weekend on "saturday night live" it was her debut, and she did not disappoint. ♪ want to take a ride on your disco stick ♪ ♪ >> she can't sit down in the thing that she wore. she wowed the audience in yet another outrageous get-up. apparently didn't practice sitting down in that thing. the poker face singer wore a gyroscope and as you saw, caused trouble when she tried to sit down behind a piano. but she tried. and that was not all. apparently, david, she also showed off her acting chops with madonna. the two engaged in a cat fight.

is that the real madonna? >> well, apparently -- lady gaga is not an engineer. wow. tamron, more than 100 surfers to the ocean in an effort to break a world record. these adventure seekers were hoping to break brazil's record for the number of people riding the same waves. the current record is 100. organizers say 103 surfers took part. the guiness book of world records is still trying to verify that figure. >> pretty cool. and the story we have been talking about, a british man is lucky to be alive after his bungee cord slipped loose. look at this. during a job at a resort in thailand, rishi baja jumped directly into the water at the jungle bungee center. write that down. he suffered from a ruptured spleen, torn liver, collapsed lung. despite spending a month in the

hospital, he plans to go skydiving once he fully recovers. but i bet he'll check out the company. >> jungle bungee center, some place i'll never go. >> you'll go, but not use that company. all right. up next, do we need a second stimulus to stop rising unemployment? the white house says no. but how exactly do they plan to help put americans back to work? >> and then what you need to know regarding the new swine flu vaccine that's being distributed this week. this is "the big picture" on msnbc. this is onstar reporting a stolen blue chevy tahoe, south on i-75, near exit 5. we're on it. onstar, we may have that tahoe. ok, i'll flash the lights. we got it. it's in the clear. i'm sending a signal to cut the power. we got him. mr. ross, the police have recovered your tahoe.

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i'm bertha coombs with your cnbc market wrap. stocks breaking a four-day losing streak and gain. the s&p 500 adding 15, and the nasdaq up just over 20. a new sign, the economy is headed for recovery. that was part of the reason

today the institute for supply management saying the u.s. service sector grew in september for the first time in 13 months. but there is still tough economic times that are pushing a number of indicators toward record highs. among them, bankruptcy. the american bankruptcy institute says personal bankruptcy filings topped a million during the first nine months of 2009. the institute expects that number to hit more than 1.4 million by december. and internet-based phone carrier vonnage is going wireless. it's creating an app that offers potential savings for smart phone users. the apple has blackberry and iphone users to make overseas calls that it places as a local call on a wireless network. vonnage then cares the call to its overseas destination. that's it from cnbc, first in business worldwide. now back to msnbc. welcome back to the "the big picture." i'm tamron hall in new york. >> and i'm david schuster in

washington. right now, jobs, jobs, jobs with the unemployment rate at 8. 9 exercise and expected to climb higher, they're trying to figure out how to create more jobs, but will not include a second stimulus package. >> we're working on any way that we can create more jobs. we're focused on the implementation of a piece of legislation that has clearly cushioned the blow of jobs created or saved, as well as economic activity that has lessened the pothole that our economy fell into. >> john harwood is cnbc's chief washington correspondent and a political writer for "the new york times," interesting to hear them talking about a another year being pliimplemented. maybe there might be some tax

cuts are somebody else might be proposed? >> absolutely. and whatever the white house does, whether it's in the state of the union or perhaps as one senior official told me earlier, this fall, because political pressure might be great for it, they're not going to call it stimulus. the white house believes that term has been discredited by all of the attacks on spending, and deficits and intervention and general motors and banks and the spreading power of the government. so they're looking at things that are targeted, some of which, david, have already been done in the initial stimulus package. that is, things like the first time home buyer credit, accelerating depreciation for businesses, steps of that kind. but they're also looking at new ones, things that might spur job creation, new hiring, trying to figure out how to make that workable. >> the "wall street journal" polled the president's handling on the economy. approved, 50%, kiss disapprove, 42%. does the white house feel they have some leverage on this issue? >> well, i think yes, they have some leverage, but also

pressure. elsewhere in that poll, david, you can see that jobs are the number one priority that the public has for washington. and also the number one way they're filtering whether the economic program of barack obama is working. so, you know, barack obama's team has a dilemma right now. they think their plan is working, that the stimulus package is turning the economy armed, and there are some signs of that, and that unemployment will come later. but as long as it's later and not now, and that rate keeps rising, maybe past 10% by the middle of next year, people will look at what obama is doing and say, know what, this is not working. that's a bad situation for obama and for democrats who have got to run for election next year in 2010. >> john, as far as timing, you mentioned possibly state of union, possibly sooner. what would make the difference? is there any event out there that would prompt them one way or another? >> yes. i think when you see unemployment cross that 10% threshold, that could be a key. mark zandi, an outside economist respected which both sides says unemployment is expected to peak at 10.5% next june.

but it's 9.8 now. if you see it go over 10% say in the month of october that we have begun right now or november, you could expect to see a lot of democrats and some within the administration pushing hard for doing something right now. >> john harwood, thanks so much. we appreciate it. and interesting stuff, tamron. the idea of tax cuts and some new packages coming out this fall. that would be fascinating. >> it is. and another big one we're following. after months of preparation, swine flu vaccinations begin today. at least the nasal spray kind. the health care workers in memphis, tennessee were among the first to get the vaccine. h1n1 shots won't begin until the middle of the month. here to talk about the concerns and who should get the vaccine, nbc news chief medical editor and host of "doctor nancy" dr. nancy snyderman, and the director of the national institute of allergy and infectious disease. doctor nancy, i'll start with you. the nasal -- why was this first over the shot, and what's the difference here? >> well, the manufacturers and

government have been pushing hard to get a vaccine to market, and the flu mist came to market earlier. the shots will be a couple -- a week or so behind. but it's all part of this decision to get the waves of vaccine to market as quickly as possible, so people can be protected. >> doctor, people are still confused in some cases over who should get these shots, who should be first on the list. break it down for us. >> well, there is there are five priority target groups who should be getting the h1n1 vaccine as soon as it's available. high among these are pregnant women, the people who are the caretakers of children less than six months old, health care workers, young individuals up to 24, six months to 24 years old, and adults who have underlying medical conditions that would put them at greater risk for the complications offin influence ends a. those are the five groups we want to get the vaccine to first. after that, elderly individuals can come in and get the h1n1. but right now, we want to emphasize that the seasonal flu

vaccine is available right now, and particularly the elderly should go get that vaccine as soon as they can. >> right. >> doctor fauci, a question for you, and nancy, if it you'll answer this, as well, what has surprised you, is it worse than expected, better than expected? any aspects that have taken you by surprise? >> i'll let tony go first. >> well, you know, influenzas are very unpredictable. the fact that we were concentrating on h 5 and n 1, the bird flu in southeast asia and thinking right here in our backyard in mexico, the brand-new virus, the h1n1 pandemic flu which spread extraordinarily rapidly, so the surprise of it coming up and landing in our own backyard was a surprise. but we shouldn't be surprised, because influenza is very unpredictable. >> and i guess one thing that surprises me is people decide not to get the shot because, one, they don't think they're at risk, or they're worried about safety or the fact this is being rushed. i think the h1n1 has to be

looked at like a regular seasonal flu, the component of what would normally be in a flu shot. the trials are going very well. and it's a reminder that those high-risk groups are there for a reason. so get your seasonal flu shot now. and then when the h1n1 comes around, if you're one of those high risk groups, get a second shot. it's worth it to be smart. >> doctor nancy, doctor -- >> and on tamron's behalf. >> yeah, i hope steve would get one today. >> the happened hand sanitizer that tamron is squirting in her hand, does that work? >> yes, coughing appropriately and washing hands are a good second step. but that's in addition to getting the shot or the flu mist for you, because you could do the nasal spray. >> stay on, david, because i once saw his makeup sponsor j, and it was the filthy evident thing, and so i've got to keep him clean. keep him honest. >> pretty nasty. bacteria petri dish. >> but i've got to ask you --

that is gross, david. when is it too late to get the vaccine? >> i don't even think that should be on the table. we want people to get vaccinated and, you know -- >> well, people procrastinate, people work. >> you can't afford to procrastinate. get it now. because this goes through springtime, perhaps. november, december. but the reality is, vaccine is coming to market in a rollout. find out where it's being in your community and just get it. there is no conspiracy here. very safe. >> doctor fauci, thank you very much, and doctor nancy, thank you for monitoring david's sponge. we're going to be talking about swine flu, h1n1, and i know at sporting events people are concerned about giving the high-five. >> absolutely. and is i must say tamron, i'm disappointing i can no longer make fun of you for the go you put in your hands. >> for christmas and the holidays, you'll get purell. up next, my job is keeping us healthy. are conservatives ruining things

for president obama? speaking of things that are healthy and unhealthy, is it bordering what the republicans used to call, david, being unamerican? >> and, in fact, there are a lot of questions about how the right is reacting to issues ranging from the olympics to health care reform. we'll talk about that, after this. what's our favorite part of honey bunches of oats? the sparkly flakes. the honey-baked bunches! the magic's in the mix. my favorite part? eating it. honey bunches of oats. taste the joy we put in every spoonful. honey bunches of oats. we call the bunches in honey bunches of oats the prize in the box. well, now there's a prize inside the prize. pecans! pecans! baked into crunchy oat bunches. taste the delicious surprise in every spoonful. new honey bunches of oats with pecan bunches. beautiful. boon motorcycle insurance, rv,at geiccamper, boat insurance. nice work, everyone. exec: well, it's easy for him. he's a cute little lizard. gecko: ah, gecko, actually -

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in today's "face-off"

conservatives who appear to be rooting for failure, most notably for the chicago olympics. here is former president bush talking about the chicago bid for the olympics. >> they say if the olympics will come to chicago, if we're fortunate enough to be selected, but it's really coming to america, and i can't think of a better city to represent the united states than chicago. >> but watch what happened at a meeting of americans for prosperity, one of the main conservative organizations involved in the tea party protest, when the announcement was made that chicago had been eliminated. >> they were out on the first vote. >> even a slap on the hand, a high-five. then there was this moment from rush limbaugh. >> folks, worst day of his presidency. this is the guy who is going to

talk iran into giving up its nukes. barack hussein obama, mmmm, mmmm. >> look at that body language. well, today, in addition to the words, today "new york times" columnist wrote we learn that the modern conservative movement which dominates the republican party has the emotional maturity of a bratty 13-year-old. they're against it, whether or not it is good for america. is it helpful to root against america, one of the greatest cities, chicago. we have brad blakeman and former deputy assistant to george w. bush. let me start with you, brad. we saw the response at the summit and even a high-five and is the woman gleefully saying chicago had been eliminated in the first round. what do you make of the reaction

from the conservatives, and is it unamerican? >> look, it's certainly not helpful to have conservatives -- all conservatives being painted by a small group of people. >> no, those conservatives. that's why i said in that video. how could you categorize -- people in those video -- >> nuts. >> you think they're crazy. >> yes, crazy. >> okay. i'm done -- >> peter, your turn. what do you think is driving this? look, you can make an argument, i suppose, there is really not an economic boon for the olympics, you can make an argument that maybe politicians shouldn't be speaking in school. but to fight president obama on everything, whether it's birth, whether it's his name, whether it's his policy, do you think there's something else going on here that this is really about race? >> no. david, what i think is going on here is that the republican party has an identity crisis. they can't figure out whether they're the party opposing this guy on everything from celebrating arbor day to trying to get the olympics versus whether or not they're going to try to work with him on health care reform. look, you look at history with

clinton and welfare reform. the republicans work with clinton on health care reform and were able to say we got the president to do this and this was a good bill. the republicans this time on health care are taking the tact it's all or nothing, they'll appeal for their base. a lot of members of congress are in safe districts, so they can do that without having a risk. but i think presidential prospects, at least, this whole crazy reaction to something like this, it's just -- it just lingers out there, and republicans are -- >> one sense in terms of what's driving it. brad, i'll ask you this. there does seem to be an element of president obama is not one of us. he is from somewhere else, he's a muslim, wasn't born here, wants to indock tri nature our kids. it sort of defies logic the way some of this is going. what is really going on here? >> well, the wackiest people seem to get the most print and air time. it's not the mainstream conservatives, it's not the right of the center conservatives, it's the most extreme. and i've got to tell you, i'll put our most extreme people

against peter's most extreme people. they're equally crazy. >> but brad, the question is, whether they're equally crazy or not, we can talk about, but the reality is, does it hurt the republican party? and i want to play what joe scarborough said about limb ba. here it is. >> middle americans that swing elections see that -- think, oh, my god, republicans have gone off the deep end. >> so response to what joe said, and can it hurt the party. we can talk about whether they're friends or not, or if they're small voices. there are big, loud voices in the form of rush limbaugh. >> yeah, they're loud voices. but just as jon stewart has a loud voice for the left, or hollywood is a loud voice for the left, there doesn't seem to be an influence -- >> jon stewart doesn't have a political movement behind him. rush limbaugh's followers are part of a political movement.

>> come on. >> here's the deal on this, okay? i mean, david, you raised the point about barack hussein obama. i have had friends of mine in new york who are not political people one way or another say what does it mean when these people say we want our country back. brett, what does that mean? the definition -- we want our country back. >> here's what it means. here's what it means. we want to go back to the principles to tried and true principles we believe in. >> when did you lose your country? when was the country lost, brad? i think that's what people -- when they say you want the country back, some believe that the country was lost over the last -- >> it's metaphorical. >> but do you understand, brad, that it means something to people when they hear you say you want your country back, it is implied that this black han has come in, and -- >> no. >> that's how some people -- you may not think it's right, but that's the interpretation some have. when did you lose the country, brad? when was the country lost? >> this is the same argument with president bush. >> give me a date.

>> i think we can all agree, there is a tolerance for this stuff from the right that certainly wouldn't have been ack acceptable had it been reversed. imagine going to a john mccain rally, several african-american men outside protesting with guns. do you think that the mainstream media, do you think the country would have reacted with the sort of indifference to the people they do to the people who showed up at the obama rally with guns? >> it was wrong in either instance. it's more of a news story when they show up for the president than john mccain or anybody else, because he is the president. it doesn't make it right. it's wrong. >> brad, your guys, whether you want to admit it or not, are complicit in this, because there is a tolerance in this kind of behavior. >> not my guys. not our guys. >> no one in the republican leadership comes forward -- john boehner did not come forward and say these people shouldn't have been celebrating when we lost the bid. he said you should be back here working on health care. >> peter, brad, we can talk about this all day, but i think

at the heart of it is when you say you've lost your question, when did you lose it, what date did that happen? and the implication is the day when you got this president who is different. and people -- >> no. >> i'm not saying you. i'm saying there are people who play that difference under racial and as david said religious and all kinds of awful things. >> absolutely right, tamron. tamron, let me remind you. the guy is half white! >> you don't have to remind me. i know that. but we know his -- his race, brad. >> but why it's an issue is because he looks more black than white. if he looked more black than white -- >> you can e-mail me, brad, the day you lost your country. and then we can talk about it. thank you very much, both of you. greatly appreciate it. >> good to be here. >> david -- justin, some things we thought you should know. >> and before i read this, i've got to say, the only difference between george w. bush and barack obama between the chicago olympic bid is barack obama became president and lobbied for it. their support was the same. the only difference i see is the color of the skin of barack obama.

but in any case, a joke about a candidate's stutter becomes big news. why is anybody joking about somebody stuttering, and on "hardball" with chris matthews, whether there is a flit between afghanistan and the white house. ( whooshing ) announcer: you could buy 300 bottles of water. or just one brita filter. ( drop plinks ) brita-- better for the environment and your wallet.

how you could start saving. there's a lot going on today, and here are a few things we thought our viewers should know. >> the gubernatorial race in virginia has taken a pretty interesting turn. a supporter for republican bob mcdonnell was caught on tape, david, mocking democratic candidate, since he has a

stutter. that supporter is one of the wealthiest women in america, sheila johnson, and co founder of b.e.t., black entertainment television. here she is discussing communication skills at a rally this weekend. >> we need someone who can really communicate, and bob mcdonnell can communicate. the other people that i talk to, and especially his [ stuttering ] opponent, are difficult. he could not articulate what needed to be done. >> you know, tamron, i hope sheila johnson apologizes, and i hope bob mcdonnell will distance himself from her. that was just disgusting. >> we're going to follow up on that. >> the dalai lama will be in washington, d.c. this week. a meeting with president obama is not on the agenda. the white house says talks between the two have been postponed until after the

president's meeting with the chinese counterpart scheduled for next month. the decision to postpone the meeting with the tibetan spiritual leader appears to be part of a strategy to improve ties with china. interesting timing there. >> yeah, that is, david. those are the things, though, we just thought you should know today. and a trip to the national counterterrorism center and a bipartisan meeting topped president obama's enormous busy agenda headed into tomorrow. let's get right to our next read on politics. >> nbc's athenna jones joins us from the white house. what do you have for us? this. >> good afternoon, david and tamron. as you mentioned, the first stop on the president's agenda tomorrow is to the national counterterrorism center. it's a clearinghouse for where they analyze data for policy makers, law enforcement, government agencies. white house press secretary robert gibbs want to go there, and talk to employees and thank them for the hard work they have done to keep america safe. but the big news out of the white house tomorrow is on the topics of afghanistan.

in the afternoon, the president has a bipartisan meeting with lawmakers were both houses of congress, including chairs and ranking members of key committees, like armed services, appropriations, a few others. the idea is to walk these members of congress through where the president and national security team are in this strategic review. they have held a few meetings, they're going to have another on wednesday and friday. the idea is to share their thoughts with the members of congress, get some of their opinions. you can expect there to be a lot of opinions from these congressional leaders. and, of course, congress would have to sign off on any new funding proposals for that war evident. so the idea tomorrow is a big meeting with them, and we'll be watching closely. and finally, on capitol hill, people will be watching the senate finance committee, expected to vote soon on their version of the health care bill. it may not come as quickly as some want it to, because congressional republicans and democrats want to see how much it costs first. so they'll be waiting for budget numbers first. that's all. >> nbc's athena jones, great

work. pleasure to have you on board. check out first rate every morning. updated throughout the day. check back often. log on to firstread.msnbc.com. >> another great show. that does it for us for "the big picture." >> and "hardball" with chris matthews starts right now. >> anti-american? let's aplay "hardball." . good evening, i'm chris matthews of washington. leading off tonight, the right roots against america. remember how republicans questioned democrats' patriotism during the bush years? you were either with bush or with the terrorists? so what do we make the of the glee some friend when president obama lost the olympics bid? it's one thing to argue politics and policy, what's good and bad for america, that's what we do here on "hardball." it's another thing to root for