america to fail. plus, the growing divide between the white house and military brass. last week, general stanley mcchrystal campaigned publicly for more troops. while the president was weighing a smaller counterterrorism strategy. well, the president's national security advisor rebuked mcchrystal yesterday on television. two retired generals join us to talk about this open fight now between the uniformed leaders and the civilians. and if you've been thinking that president obama needs a win one of these days, you're not alone. check out "saturday night live's" devastating opening skit. >> it's very clear what i've done so far. and that is -- nothing. nada. >> why the president needs a win, and quick. later in the show. also, is general david petraeus really thinking about running for president in 2012, could he beat someone as exciting as mit romney or deep

as sarah palin? check out politics tonight for that big question. and do you remember the famous mccaca remark? we may have heard another one, another mccaca moment in virginia. on the "hardball" sideshow tonight. why conservatives seem to be rooting against america these days. clarence page is -- with the "chicago tribune" and terry jeffrey is not, with cnn'snews.com. general, let's take a look now at some things here. here is a conservative group getting the news about the olympic bid this friday. let's listen. >> we were out on the first round. the very first vote, we did not have any chance of negotiating. they were out on the first vote. >> there they are clapping.

in fact, if you missed the clapping seen there, it continued in that line. they seemed to be enjoying the news that obama, the president, and chicago and the united states had failed in its olympic bid to rio degentleman near owe. a weekly standard blog went out right after chicago was passed over. and the original headline on their blog was, "chicago loses, chicago loses" and included this news bulletin, "cheers erupt at weekly world headquarters." there you have it. we're going to have rush limbaugh along that line in a couple minutes. but that's the beginning of this conversation. what is it, terry, that seems to excite almost to an orgy as particular level the right to get the american olympic bid. rooting for any favor for obama. >> i don't think the city of chicago getting the olympics is synonymous with a vital national interest of the united states. you can be from chicago and not want the olympics to come to

chicago. i think what you saw conservatives happy about there is they saw hub rifts brought left. there is something about the united states when the president is not making up his mind how we're going to reinforce what general mcchrystal wants, flying off to copenhagen, on whether a single city in the united states is going to get game six, eight years from now. so i think what people are reacting to as what they see as the hubris of president obama get brought down. >> i've been around a long time, chris, and this is the first time i've seen americans cheering over not getting the olympics. the uniforms don't say chicago, they say usa. and that's usually what you hear, mass disappointment. this episode kind of reminds me, terry of the first o.j. simpson verdict when you have a split screen of people cheering on one side and crying on the other. this is that kind of a contrast here. >> let's take a look. can we show rush limbaugh reacting to this thing on

friday? he was quite in a dither over this. in fact, he was wallowing over it. a word for him. here is rush limbaugh wallowing over the failure of getting the olympic bid friday. >> the world has rejected obama! chicago, the least number of votes. first elimination in the round of voting for the olympics in 2016. barack hussein obama. mmmmm. barack hussein obama. mmmmm. has been running around the world for nine months, telling everybody how much our country sucks. why would anybody award the olympics to such a crappy place? as the united states of america? >> terry jeffrey for the defense? >> well, i think -- i do -- i think rush makes an excellent point. i think one -- no, i do. i think what he is pointing to and something the americans

ought to be worried about with president obama right now is his going off to copenhagen to lobby to get the olympics for his hometown and failing to get it shows a serious lack of prudence, chris. and rush made the point, this guy is negotiating with the iranians. right now the guy is trying to negotiate with the iranians to stop a nuclear program probably headed toward the iranians getting a nuclear weapon. this it guy cannot predict what the international olympic committee will do when he talks face-to-face. yes, that should be ridiculed in forms like talk radio, and rush did an excellent job of point to go that vulnerability we have with this guy in the white house. >> i'm restraining myself, guy. >> good for you, chris. the ioc is highly comparable to negotiations. which went well last week, but that was overshadowed, because americans care more about the olympics right now, god bless us. we're lucky we can afford to do that. but the fact of the matter is, obama went off as quickly as he could, and came back as quickly as he could. and that's only part of the

reason why the ioc wasn't more impressed. >> you know, i think you probably knew that there were a lot of voters in the olympic committee who thought it's time for the southern hemisphere to have a shot. african and african-american countries who have a shot at it, probably tired of countries getting it. he probably knew that. i think he knew also it was his job coming out of chicago to try, at least. if ronald reagan had gone over and tried to get the olympics for los angeles and it fraailed would you be cheering that reagan had failed? if rudy guiliani rootsed for new york like he always does, if he tried to get it for new york -- >> you know what, chris, he didn't. and in fact ronald reagan did not negotiate with the soviet union -- >> we're not -- >> this is about nuclear arms and negotiating with -- less about game. >> let me make my point. ronald reagan in his first presidency -- let me make my point, chris. i'll tell you what my point is. ronald reagan would not

negotiate with any soviet leader until they had a leader in place he thought he could negotiate with. but he negotiated from a position of strength. when he went to rachvick -- >> wait a minute. let me draw a contrast. when gorbachev said you do this, and we'll get rid of sci, and he walked out of the soviet union, that brought an end to the cold war. the most emblematic moment is his going to copenhagen and is having the international olympic committee slap him down. >> i think americans ought to get used to getting in the rung with the third world people getting a right to vote. i can it's great. >> democrats shouldn't have a right to vote. they're not democratic countries who are not equal to this free and democratic -- we are not -- >> it's not about nuclear arms. let's take a look at a couple things. i want to look at lindsay graham at glen beck on this issue. i think we should look at that right now. let's look at rush limbaugh

first. there seems to be a pattern -- well, let's go to lindsay graham, talking about glen beck. let's watch. >> what do you think about glen beck? >> only in america can you make that much money crying. glen beck is not aligned with any party, as far as i can tell. he is aligned with cynicism. >> well, this is the whole question whether the right is being pushed back by the -- these people that just want the president to fill fail as opposed to running for office. here is glen beck responding to lindsay graham. >> there are a lot of things i'll wear as a badge of honor. lindsay graham hating my guts is probably the highest honor i've ever received. >> i have no idea what that means. let's look at graham responding on fox "news sunday" yesterday. >> what i'm saying, he doesn't represent the republican party. you can listen to him if you like, i choose not to. because, quite frankly, i don't

want to go down the road of thinking our best days are behind us. >> there seems to be a growing -- not growing, an emerging possible split between republicans and the far right. what do you think? >> well, you know, first of all, lindsay graham does not speak for the conservative. i can't speak for mr. beck. i don't even see his television program. so i can't judge -- but, if you're a conservative, and because you're not strictly a republican, you're looking at those republicans who fight for conservative principles and conservative causes, and what's going on in congress if there are congressmen that conservatives like to see done. lindsay graham is not one of those people, not one of the fighters of the united states congress. he can speak for the republican party, that's fine. he doesn't speak for conservatives. >> i say good for libbed see graham, i've known him for a number of years, a man of principle, as is terry, i've known him for a number of years. the debate gets polluted by falsehoods like beck saying lindsay hatsz my guts, he

doesn't hate his guts. but that's how beck makes money, he's a showman, it's unfortunate the national debate gets polluted by show business, and distortions like death panels that don't exist. but these become issues, and it gets people scared. and it's just unfortunate. this was -- what has happened. and i hope that at least the conservative movement can try to police its own house. >> let's take a look at rush limbaugh earlier this year talking about what his view is -- the way he looks at the presidency of barack obama. and it's on his radio show. >> well, i'm thinking of replying to the guy, okay, i'll send you a response, but i don't need 400 words. i need 4. i hope he fails! >> what do we make of that? >> well, chris, what rush said immediately before that is president obama who would be coming into office shortly had an agenda of taking over -- having increased government control in the automobile industry, in the banking industry, in the health care industry. >> an agenda? >> he's going to give it back right away. don't want to keep it.

>>s after this happened, president obama took over general motors, offered a health care plan that had a public option where the government would be running a health care program that michael moore said would drive private health insurance companies out of business. rush had specific agenda items that president obama was forwarding, he said he was against them. i'm with rush 100% on this one. >> if michael moore was running the liberal policy in the country right now, i would begin to agree with you, terry. but fortunately, he is not. max balk can you say is running the health care debate and that's why your side is winning on that score. >> you don't think, just to get back to our point here, you don't sense that on the right -- well, maybe i'm asking the wrong person to agree with this -- that there is a goal here that anything where there is a contest, a chance to prove its success, whether it's ideological, pro-american or political or partisan, any chance for barack obama to fail, your side is going to root for. him to fail, whatever it is. he must fail, at any moment, whether it's health care, whether it's the olympics, whatever it is, you will cheer if he fails.

are you denying that now? >> not any place. most places. there's one place, clearly, where conservatives ought not want him to fail. >> no, don't be selective. isn't it true -- >> no, it's not true. >> the evidence of this past week is, wherever he attempts to do something, you guys want him to stumble. >> no, that's true. >> give me an example. >> i'll give you an example. i'm very much rooting for what president obama chooses to do, and afghanistan works. because all americans want our country to succeed in afghanistan. it's important it happens. i hope his policy in iraq succeeds. i hope what he does with the gitmo prisoners succeeds. on the domestic front, i think conservatives are opposed to just about everything president obama is trying to do, because he's trying to augment the power of government over our lives, and to administer individual freedom. so the agreement that his ability to levy rang the democrats in congress to attain

his agenda is diminished, that's a good thing. >> and the problem is, he inherited a depression and was forced to move in the direction public action, because of the disasterous economic circumstances he inherited. >> the voters decided on that back in november. and i don't see that that big of an objection. there is concern. >> all of the republicans on wall street -- >> right. there is a concern, but not a rising objection to obama's policies on wall street, except among the tea party folks. >> well, listen -- >> he's smiling. >> i would also say that wall street is not exactly a bags of conservative either. and there is a certain amount of symbiosis that goes back and forth between wall street bankers and government people in washington, d.c. but -- >> how is that nasdaq? they regained their losses. >> before we get -- it's essential here, most of this it began last fall under george bush. the bringing in of hank paulson from goldman sachs, the whole works. the whole down fall of wall

street, the attempt to bail out wall street, the banking industry, the failure of general motors began long before barack obama came into office. he came in to clean up the mess. and i refuse not to take sides in the fire brigade in the fire. he's the fire brigade. your side was the fire. clarence page, terry jeffrey, thank you. coming up, there is a growing rift between the white house and top military brass. we haven't begun to talk about that one. why are generals giving speeches where they disagree with the president. what's that about? is this general mccarthur and truman again? we'll be right back to who is calling the shots. the elected commander in chief or someone else? only on "hardball" on msnbc. make that month. 'cause it's ford truck month. and that means savings on the best selling trucks 32 straight years. fortunately, luck has nothing to do with getting... a heck of a great deal on a brand spanking new ford super duty. plus, ford credit is there to help you with the financing. lucky you to get zero percent apr for 60 months or 5000 cash back on an '09 super duty.

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back to "hardball." one day after the president's strategy session in afghanistan last wednesday, the top u.s. commander there, general stanley

mcchrystal on thursday publicly rejected the option of a scaled-back counterterrorism mission during a speaking engagement in london. general mcchrystal wants an additional 40,000 troops to beat back the taliban and help protect the afghan population, which puts him at odds with some in the white house who are pushing for a smaller military footprint to target al qaeda. but is it appropriate for the top military man in afghanistan to flat out reject and publicly sell a more narrow military strategy when the president, the commander in chief, has yet to make a decision? retired army general paul eaton is a senior advisor to the national security network. general, thank you. and retired army colonel jack jacobs is an msnbc military analyst. gentlemen, thank you both. here is the "washington post," we don't have film or video, but the quote from the speech in london by general mcchrystal, our commander in afghanistan. it reports that, when asked whether a scaled-back u.s. effort in afghanistan would work in practice, mcchrystal said,

quote, the shorter answer is no. you have to navigate from where you are, not from where you wish to be. a strategy that does not leave afghanistan in a stable position is probably a short-sighted strategy. general, you have a president -- you have a general, a field commander, challenging a strategy that's being talked about in the white house right now. how does that stand in terms of military discipline? >> well, you've got to look at it from where general mcchrystal is sitting. he published the -- he produced a document, the recommendation that he gave to the president, somebody leaked it. so his position is already known. it's a matter of fact. so he has now poseded a question that is, in fact, directly aligned to recommendation he gave to the president. he reiterated the position that's in that paper that never should have been revealed. >> so he is simply backing up what he has to, but should he be out giving speeches when he knows he'll gets a question about it. he knows he'll be asked a question during the london speech, he knows he has to

answer a question whether in fact he has recommended this 40,000 troop increase. >> i suspect the speech got lined up a long time ago, one. two, he's in london, our ally, our great ally. so in a nato context, he's not able to say oh, by the way, our allies, we don't need to do that. >> colonel jacobs, you have the president and field commander engaged in a public discussion. the general has taken sides. he says we need 40,000 more troops. the president is weighing the options, including the one that's been associated with his vice president, joe biden, which is to focus on catching al qaeda, not on nation-building or even on population defense. isn't it strange to have this debate going on out in the open? >> yeah, i'm not very fond of policy like this being made out in public with everybody, including the vice president and the secretary of state, by the way, weighing in in public on what should be done in afghanistan. and if i had been general mcchrystal, fielding that

question, would have said, look, we're in the middle of a policy debate, i'm not going to answer that question. and it's irrelevant that the thing had been leaked before, somebody else did that. there is no reason why he can't dodge the question. i think that policy that's made in public usually turns out to be rotten policy. >> you know what it means to me -- it sounds to me like the debate over health care. not to knock the president, he doesn't need to be knocked right now, but here he is, litting hillary clinton, the secretary of state saying if we let the al qaeda back, the taliban will be back. we know his position. biden's position is out there. so here he is, the president of the united states with three different positions out there, we can't identify any as his. >> one of the great strengths of the democratic party is healthy debate. it's a little frak should say, a little ugly sometimes, but i wish we had a whole lot more of that a few years ago when george bush decided to go into iraq. >> so you think it's good that we have this oh --

>> absolutely. doesn't bother me at all. don't be afraid of the debate. put it on the table. >> i was going to say, i think debate is great. the place for it is in the cabinet room. and in central command headquarters, not in the press. i think the president of the united states is in a position where he's got to make some sort of decision. you know he does. he's got various people telling him different kinds of things. the best decisions are made in secret, and then announced publicly. >> here is an example where the president seems to be directing business. here he is, this is yesterday, the national security advisor jim jones, has the old kissinger job, traffic controls all policy debates. here he is saying it's unseemly for general mcchrystal to be campaigning. and then saying, you catch this, he says this in this speech here, on television the other day, that mcchrystal, instead of offering one proposal should be giving the president an array of options. here he is really sticking it to

him for having a public position out there, and then sticking it to him, saying you owe the president more than one option. here he is, general jones. >> ideally, it's better for military advice to come up through the chain of command, and i think that general mcchrystal and the others in the chain of command will present the president with not just one option, which does, in fact, tend to have a -- you know, forcing function. but a range of options that the president can consider. >> how do you think of that, colonel? >> yeah, i think it's -- i think he's off the mark, too. he's absolutely right about the fact that the subordinate staff, and that includes general mcchrystal, gives a wide range of options in what their possible out comes would be. and then gives his recommendation, too. i mean, that's his job. but i think it's -- i think for general jones, whom i've known for a long period of time, and he really is the honest broker. than to castigate general

mcchrystal for only offering one optionin is bad news on general jones' part. all this needs to be done in the cabinet room, including the remarks of the national security advisor. >> shouldn't the president be allowed to set the strategy and the general carry it out? >> absolutely. >> here's the general saying, you only got one strategy here. you've got to protect the population, you've got a nation to build, can't do counterterrorism. he is dictating to the president publicly now what his strategy has to be in afghanistan. >> the general has an opinion. he is the man on the ground. someone asked the question, he answered the question. he answered it faithfully, and he answered it properly, also. >> okay. >> we've got a problem right now that there is this obsession with numbers of military to dedicate to the problem. it's a lot more than just the military. i want to see the rest of the executive branch, and so does the military to see the rest of the executive branch redefine national security in the totality of american power to

bear. so what you see, he's really got much more on the table that's not been revealed in this. >> a big challenge for the president, he has to change his mind. because back in march of this year, he issued a strategy very much like mcchrystal is talking about. if he has a different strategy more in line with biden, which is counterterrorism going after al qaeda, he has to change his mission. thank you general and colonel jacobs. up next, have we heard another mccaca moment? that's up next on "the sideshow." you're watching "hardball" on msnbc. they say imports always get the best mileage. well, do they know this malibu offers an epa estimated 33 mpg highway? they never heard that. which is better than a comparable toyota camry or honda accord? they are stunned. they can't believe it.

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back to "hardball." time for "the sideshow." first, "saturday night live" went after roman polanski and got the strong man to do the job. here is governor arnold schwarzenegger saying back in the 1970s when he was single, he

wasn't anything like polanski, not in any bad way. here is the great daryl ham manned showing how it was done. >> back in the '70s, i also had the sex with the ladies. there was the grabbing and the groping of the hands and the gluts, and all of their body parts, but these were not 13-year-old girls, and i did not give these ladies the champagne or the quaaludes. i did not have to. i just would flex my muscles. this was my champagne, this was my quaaludes! >> next, remember how a virginia republican got into big trouble for making fun of someone's ethnicity, calling a young democrat, a campaign worker, a maca macaca? a republican, bob mcdonnell, mocked a democratic candidate, kre deeds for his stutter. the video just posted on the web today. and here it is. here is johnson. >> the next is communication.

we need someone who can really communicate. and bob mcdonnell can communicate. the other people that i talk to, and especially his -- [ stuttering ] oppone opponent, talking while interviewing him, he could not articulate what needed to be done. all right, so communication is hugely important. >> when are we going to learn? stop the personal stuff now! how about the big number? vice president biden has been the butt of a bunch of jokes over the years, but let me tell you, this guy is always working, oversees the stimulus money, and swernl the number one democrat on the campaign trail. he is in connecticut and new york today raising money for members of congress and they're extremely grateful for it. and today politico magazine called him the patron saint of those who got elected on the obama coat tails last year and hanging on for life.

joe is our big number man tonight, raised more than a million dollars for nervous house members. and that is today's "hardball" big number. joe biden working the rope lines keeping the majority democrats in the majority. tonight's "hardball" big number. up next, president obama's failure to win the olympics for chicago is shedding failure in light of his accomplishments e. and "saturday night live" may have nailed it. this president doesn't have much to brag about yet. how badly does president obama need something to go right? he needs a w somewhere. and what are the consequences if he can't get a win, and soon? you're watching "hardball," only on msnbc. old el paso stand 'n stuff. true genius. mexican style.

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i'm bertha coombs with your cnbc market wrap. stocks rebounding. long-awaited signs of growth in the service sector, and a bit of

gar began hunting after a two-week decline. the dow jones industrial gaining 200 points, the s&p 500 up 15, and the nasdaq 20 points higher. the service sector activity picked up above the midway mark in september, according to the institute of supply management. that indicates expansion after 11 straight months of decline. around midday, demand for about $7 billion worth of treasury inflation protection notes, also helped stocks hold on to early gains. and al co a's shares climb nearly 5%, ahead of its earnings report, due wednesday. this kicks off earnings season. and share of brokaw communication soaring 9%, the "wall street journal" reporting its putting itself up for sale with oracle and hewlett-packard named as potential bidders. first in business, worldwide, now back to "hardball."

welcome back to "hardball." the opening of "saturday night live" was a rough on the president. let's listen to another segment right now. >> i said i would make improvements in the war in afghanistan. is it better? no, i think it's actually worse. how about health care reform? hell, no. >> comedy went through a whole series of cases where he promised something he couldn't deliver. chuck todd's, nbc's white house correspondent, thank you. and also nbc's news's political director, eugene robinson, only a pulitzer prize news columnist for "the washington post." trying to get all of the titles here. chuck, you're great, and i always know what you're going to say, because i know it's going to be brilliant. and what you've got here now is brilliant. you have decided, almost like when the midnight new year's when the ball starts to come

down from the top, you have decided that now we have reached the point with this president, where he hasn't delivered he should have delivered by now and therefore has problems. >> well, what it is, what "saturday night live" captured was this issue that the olympics issue brought home, which is, you know what, he hasn't closed the deal on anything in quite some time. the stimulus, getting that done, in many ways, that was the last thing he got done, right? the big thing that he signed. and yet we're still trying to figure out, get it all spent, it's still not all spent, and there is still debate and question on that. beyond that, everything else is a ball in the air. whether it's the plan to close gitmo, whether it's health care reform, which we have missed, like, three or four different deadlines, just on getting bills out of different committees, whether it's iran and nuclear and this nuclear disarmament talks. so it just brought home the collective issue. now, it's nine months in. you know? and in three to six months from now, he could have check marks of, yes, by all of those boxes.

but it is a reminder that it isn't there yet, and that's what made the olympics things such a stomach punch to this white house. >> do you accept that premise, and if so, where do we get closure, iraq, health care, iran, or gitmo. where is the possibility of a w next to any of those contests? >> how soon do you want the w? >> well, chuck, just decided -- i think it's time. "saturday night live." let's lay it on their shoulders. "saturday night live" says this is time for him to deliver. >> the fact is, it takes a while to get the stuff done. it's taken 60 years for health care, so it might take a few more months. and -- >> and by the way, just to remind, terry jeffrey was on earlier, and not for a late hit here, because i said it while he was here. these are inherited crap. all of this stuff he is being hit with that he hasn't solved yet were problems left on his doorstep on january 20th. >> the problem is, he attacked on many fronts. he said we're going to do all these things, and so, you know,

it's not out of bounds for -- especially for a satirical tv show to say, ah-ha, where are the results? but there's a long way to go in the obama presidency, and the obama first term. and these things will reach their conclusion. he'll get health care or not, come to a policy in afghanistan, and we'll have a better idea where it's going. i think he remains committed to closing guantanamo by their deadline, but they found it takes longer than it does. >> we are getting out of iraq. yeah. >> and we are getting out of iraq. and, you know, i wrote and i've said that i did think the olympics thing was a -- was a bad gamble, and i didn't think they were ever going to get it. >> you knew more than daly knew. let me ask -- let me go back to chuck, because i think it's a great question. when you covered the white house these days, do you get a sense that they feel the pressure from -- well, "saturday night live." because it is, in fact, not only the indicator, but a good example of sort of the

zeitgeist, sense of the times that this will work as a cult open. >> well, let me say this. they know -- they believe that if they sign a health care reform bill, in the next couple of months, that that will be -- that will be one of these big accomplishments that will serve as a morale booster to the base. this is as much about democrats feeling like, geez, we're trying to do all these things, let's get something done. let's put something in the done box. the to do list is very long. but you've got to get something big and substantial in that done box, and frankly, legislatively, it's that first year that you can get a lot of stuff done in congress, because you know what? if you don't get it done this year, next year is one of those even-numbered years. that's even that much harder to get something through congress. so that's why, look -- >> by the way -- >> feeling the pressure. >> i'm sorry, chuck, while you're on, what is the betting odds they can do this, the health care. a bill which has 60% at least of

what they said wanted in it, substantially improving the situation. >> they believe they're going to sign a bill. now, i'll tell you this. i've talked to some senators on capitol hill who are just exhausted from the debate. and one fear that they have is that this thing is now so defined as obama's health care plan that the democratic party is going to own every health care problem. this is a fear -- this is a couple senators who are going to support anything that comes out of that finance committee. but the fear is that any problem somebody has now with their health insurance, they're going to start -- instead of blaming health insurance companies and cursing them, that they will just knee-jerk and blame democrats and the president, and while that seems completely unfair, it's just how badly i think the message fight has been mismanaged here as far as some of these democrats on capitol hill are concerned. look, none of them are profiles encouraged sometimes. they're ducking and hiding behind the president in this thing. but it does show you sort of the exhaustion that some of these folks are feeling, and the pressure they're feeling on

capitol hill. >> well, ironically, though, the president does have one gigantic achievement, but it's a dog that didn't bark. there's a growing consensus that this administration, along with bernanke at the fed, managed to keep us from sliding into a new great depression. s they saved the economy. that's a huge deal. >> i agree with the argument there, because i think mccain -- i believe we did meet, because of printing the money and fiscal stimulus, the president offset that tremendous down fall in consumer spending and investment. but since the world didn't go into depression outside of united states, isn't that a hard argument to make, that he won by doing that? skts well -- >> name a big country that went into the depression. >> it's not that hard, the u.s. is still the leading economy. el we have the lead on that. and i think there is -- not just among the hard core kainsians, but did a fabulous job in keeping this from turning into a

catastrophe. >> by the way, congratulations to your colleague down there, robert gibbs, the press secretary. i was so impressed this saturday to see that he drove down to richmond for jody powell's memorial service, his predecessor. that's a lot of class there. by the way, chuck, when does the white house see the most important deadline for them to achieve political success. is it on the eve of 2012, or on the eve of 2010? >> you know what? i think they believe at the end of the day it's on the eve of 2012. i can't tell you how many people have reminded me, older democrats that are connected to this administration who sit there and say, hey, we're in the same position reagan was in in late '81 and '82, so maybe the mid terms in 2010 will look like '28, that year the republicans took a beating. and all of a sudden sun in america again in '83, '84. so that's what white houses worry about. they worry about the every four year. they certainly don't want -- you

know, they don't want to lose a lot of seats in 2010, but i think they think it's inevitable they're going to lose some, particularly in the house, and possibly a few in the senate. and is the question is, what's more important? some i think in their minds, it's more important to be a two-term president. >> thanks for the analysis, white house correspondent for nbc, eugene robinson. thank you, sir. up next, are republicans getting dangerously close to rooting against america? terry jeffrey may 23409 think so, or maybe he does, but it's clear from the tapes we can show you that last friday when the word got out chicago wasn't going to get the olympics, there was a lot of cheering and huh luting and high fiving. that's a fact. we've got the tapes. how smart is that strategy? we'll be right back. this is "hardball." now yourard comes with a way to plan for what matters to you. introducing blueprint. blueprint is free and only for chase customers. it lets you choose what purchases you want to pay

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chicago is out. >> we were the first vote. they did not have any chance in even negotiating. they were out on the first vote. >> there they are, clapping at the loss of the olympics by the united states. that's a gathering of the conservative group, americans for prosperity. that's an odd group to root against boosterism, responding gleefully that chicago and

president obama did not win the 2016 olympics. we're back. it's time for "the politics fix" with david cornyn, an unusual ban bit to be appearing. and jonathan martin. i'm going to put you in the role of lions club rotary, the kind of guy that does weigh for local economic development. bring new jobs to the town. ironically, you have the democrats doing the boosterism, the republicans have done well, more jobs for the city, great for the town, great for the country. let's face it. if we did have the olympics coming up soon, it would be all we were talking about. i was in south africa this summer, all they were talking about in the world cup coming. i don't care how big your country is. >> there is an argument against bringing the olympics to a particular city on economic and development grounds. you know, there are people out there making that case. you can call them blankets. there's a policy argument against them. the political argument is people like the olympics.

>> lefties like you. you can put this money in the welfare bank. >> more stadium, namely, cities -- >> yeah. >> to see the republicans in this position where it's just so bitter and acrimonious, they're not out there saying this is for the best of the chicago citizens, they're saying -- >> i read this thing the other day, they said the frenchman wants to be known as the world's greatest lover. russian wants his neighbor's horse to die. you know what i mean? they want -- >> republicans -- >> they want bad news for the person they're competing with. >> they're reveling in the fact the president they despise had an embarrassing moment here. that's what it is. the irony is rich. the famously patriotic party that called french fries freedom fries a few years ago is cheering the u.s. lost in their

bid -- >> ronald reagan, i ran this by terry jeffrey, playing his position there, wasn't going to agree with me. that's fair. that happens here. if ronald reagan stuck his neck out for l.a. olympics, if rudy giuliani stuck his neck out, any democratic -- i don't think they instinctively would have. they would have said, good try, good move. >> imagine how happy these guys would be if obama lost a war. i mean, it's -- may even come to pass, but they are just is -- >> give me that newspaper over here, will you? when you're talking about a war, let me try to remind ourselves -- here's a war. this is real. eight u.s. soldiers killed in that attack the other day at that outpost. it's real. let's talk about the olympics. this is not nuclear arms negotiations with gorbachev. >> it's a reflection of the political times. anything seen as a loss for obama regardless what it is is caused for celebration on the right. >> when o.j. verdict came in,

black and white reaction, instantaneous reaction is telling. it's not a game. these people's glee was real. >> that's what was frightening about it. i remember after 9/11 and for the people on the left and democrats who despised george w. bush, didn't think he had been elected legitimately and thought the tax cuts and everything up to that point was bad for the country, they still, a lot of them were rooting for him after 9/11 because they saw the problems that the country had were serious enough that if you don't like the guy, he's the guy there and put some of the hatred aside. then it came back -- >> it came back. i thought after 9/11 when he had the blow horn there and firefighter, i don't think al gore could have done it that well. i thought at that moment he was king arthur. he lost it later because the neocons talked him into iraq. i'll say it a million times. we'll be back to talk about general petraeus. is this guy running for president? we'll be right back with david

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we're back with david corn and jonathan martin with "the politics fix." i'm thinking of something that would get to the heart of this. david corn, man of the left, proudly so. were you his adviser, personal

adviser, recommended general david petraeus to get out of uniform, run for the republican nomination, take on president obama? >> if he was interested i would say get out of uniform now. in the next year or two he's partly in charge of getting us out of this mess we're in in afghanistan. i mean, this story in "the new york times" today that we're all getting, you know, excited about that there's rumors and speculation about him running doesn't make any sense to me. because right now he's been given the really tough job. iraq, whether he did well there or not, he's in charge of dealing with afghanistan which seems to be harder. how can he do that and think about running for president? >> well, because the gop feels pretty thin right now. >> very thin. you have somebody who's -- all sail i like in a boat, and that's sarah palin. a great sail. she's exciting as hell and one guy who is all ballas.

it's mitt romney. >> we're years ae way. >> we're not years away. a few months away. >> this is a party that reveres the military. imagine a place like south carolina how well petraeus could do. his resonance is in new hampshire. what are his politics? what does he believe? abortion rights? where is he on -- chris, republican primary cares about certain cultural issues. where is he on those? he hasn't voted since 2003. >> his policy on health care in. >> exactly. >> we've been through this before. the talk about colin powell ended up not having the fire in his belly. wes clark, a terrible campaigner. >> one, two, three, right now. romney, petraeus, palin. what would you put it aut? >> as far as running? >> gate positions. who do you put in the inside track? >> probably put rockny at the first track. >> who's number two? petraeus or sarah palin? >> i'd say you would put pawlenty or palin there. >> where's huckabee? >> where's petraeus in.

>> i don't think he's going to run. >> huckabee's there, too. >> we'll see. thank you, david corn. thank you, jonathan martin. talked up here. join us tomorrow night at 5:00 and 7:00 eastern for more "hardball." time for "the ed show" with ed schultz. good evening, americans. good to have you with us tonight on "the ed show." hope you had a great weekend. quick update. no vote today in the senate finance committee. harry reid and max baucus are at odds. reed reid wants to go to the floor, baucus wants to wait for the cbo to score the senate finance committee bill to tell us how much this is going to cost. everybody is worried about the money. the money, the money, the money. i want to talk about the human cost off the top tonight. we went home this weekend in minnesota. there's a guy i've known there a while. dennis, good guy, had a construction company for some 30 years. small business owner. you know the story. pays his taxes, plays by the rules. smart guy.