since his face-to-face rhetorical dual with republicans on friday. he was in ham happen today to unveil a new economic proposal. he wants to take $30 billion of bailout money and use it to create a fund to give loans to small businesses to create jobs. while mr. obama was in new hampshire today pitching the job idea, new hampshire's republican senator was back in washington trashing the idea. in a verbal joust with president obama's budget director. >> the law is very clear. the money's recouped from the tarp shall be paid into the general fund of the treasury for the reduction of the public debt. it's not for a piggybank because you're concerned about lending to small businesses and you want to get a political event when you go out and make a speech in nashua, ma'am ham. that's not what this money is

for, it's to reduce the debt of our children that we're passing on to our children. >> republicans keep trying to get back on offense, as you heard right there, and you saw in the invisible frustration in senator gregg's face. the president is not seating that ground right now. today for a second day in a row, he spoke to republicans for bailing on a bill. >> this law failed by seven votes. when seven republicans who had cosponsored the bill -- had cosponsored the idea, suddenly walked away from their own proposal after i endorsed it. so they make a proposal, sign on to the bill. i say, great, good idea. i turn around, and they're gone.

what happened? now, it's one thing to have an honest difference of opinion on something. there's nothing wrong with that. you can't walk away from your responsibilities to confront the challenges facing the country because you don't think it's good short term politics. we can't afford that. >> mr. obama teed up republicans on the stimulus package today as well, another subject on which republicans have been trying to stay on the offense, president obama again no longer letting them. >> so the very same folks in congress who opposed the recovery act and claimed that it hasn't worked have been all too happy to claim credit for recovery act projects, and the jobs those projects have produced. they come to the ribbon cuttings and they found a way to have their cake and vote against it too. >> on the issue of health

reform, again, the president went on offense saying the country is at the five-yard line, it's time to push it into the end zone, he's hitting republicans for attacking his health reform plan without presenting what he considers to be a kretdible alternative. >> at the republican caucus, they held up -- they said, we have a plan, it's going to provide everyone coverage at no cost. and i said, well, if that were true, why wouldn't i take it? my wife michelle thinks i'm stubborn sometimes, but i'm not that stubborn. okay, let me think. i could have everybody get health care coverage that's high quality and it's free, which i'll bet's really popular. but i'm not going to do that, i'm going to go through the pain of really working through this hard process in congress, getting yelled at and called a socialist because i -- you know,

i just how i roll, i'm a glutton for punishment. >> if he seems like he's enjoying himself there, i have a suspicion it's because he is. is this a normal post state of the union presidential rollout, or is this what year two of the obama presidency going to be like? joining us now is chris matthews. thanks for staying around. >> it's fun. >> it is fun. >> it's a fun time these last few days to watch politics come back into our lives and two sides going at each other. >> i saw you talking about this on hardball today, yesterday i saw your segment titled, has obama got his groove back, and it certainly seems like he's got momentum. do you think it translates to him getting stuff passed? >> yeah, i had this image of an old cowboy movie where the soldiers, the guys on the uniforms or horses, they're

inside the fort. i always wondered why did the soldier soldiers not stay in the fort? because he's calvary. he's happier on his horse, he's happier out there fighting. he's been under attack. i think you talk to people in massachusetts, all through this issue about scott brown, he won because democrats took punishment for a month there and didn't do anything about it. the president was on vacation in hawaii. i'm not knocking him, but that's where he was when we were threatened by that attacker over detroit. the secretary of homeland security didn't say the right thing, the system wasn't working, apparently. they did make a deal for nebraska, there were a lot of things that didn't look right, there was a lot of incoming, a lot of bad karma going on for a month. and scott brown web with tnt ou and took advantage of it. this white house took that hit

very hard, not even did they lose their 60th vote, they lost any sense of arrogance, which is the good side of this. the president is out there campaigning, he's on the opposite of vacation, he's going into the republican strong hold in baltimore last week, he's going to the basketball games, reengaging with people, exploiting his personal popularity. you notice he's bringing biden along with him? just as company, but also as a symbol of the excitement of the campaign, the two guys on the road -- >> picking new hampshire, i'm sure, it's a real state. >> they do care about fiscal responsibility it's not a joke up there. also, it caught the republicans in that snare, when those seven members pulled out having cosponsored, he had -- that's the ultimate proof of treachery, when you cosponsor a bill, and then you're not there for the final vote, well, which is the truth, you believed in the bill or you didn't? >> well, him talking about honest differences of opinions is okay. this is dishon et.

>> it's treasury. >> on the subject of the things they've done wrong. on all of those things you mentioned, there's good rejoinders, he did respond to the christmas bombing faster than bush responded to the shoe bomber. janet in a poll tan knonepaapol make an argument about it. they didn't rebut. they were out there fighting, they took the abuse, they could have rebutted and they didn't. it seems like they're taking the existing facts, even issues on how the christmas day bomber was treated, in terms of his miranda rights. >> he went in for surgery and stopped talking before there was any talk of miranda rights. the way it was presented by the critics, they gave him his miranda rights and he lawyered up and stopped talking. >> something's changed in this white house, the critics were making those charges, and the facts were what the facts have always been.

we didn't hear anything back from the white house, all of a sudden, we were getting a ton -- >> they're hiding in the fort instead of going out and fighting in the field. he's out in the field right now, it's great to watch, i think he has a big problem. his numbers went down, and he lost his oomph on capitol hill with the number of senators he needs. i think they're going to go for a closely run effort to win health care, it is their last chance, but it is a chance, and the only tricky question is,does the senate move first on reconciliation, alongside the bill they already passed? or does it hope that the house can pass the bill with some kind of deal that they will then act in reconciliation in the senate. it's a sequence, but they can't do any that until they get the president's numbers up. he has to get up above 55, so they can hold on to the 50 senators they need. about a week ago, they were losing 50 -- they weren't going to get to 50. >> do you think right now -- >> they have to get 50. >> if they had the vote right

now, would it go their way? >> i don't know. it's so close, at the end of a couple hours, or 20 hours of debate, they may be down to 40 something. i believe the president wants some padding, he wants this to marinade for a while. i have some intel on this, by the way. let the president get his political power back. it's february, we're not talking beyond february. get the power back, go back on the hill, get the senators to vote, plus the vice president. get a good solid vote with reconciliation, to compliment the senate bill. the tricky part, and the heaviest lifting is to get 218 in the house, either with stupak or go to the left the other way, they have to make a big decision, pelosi's people, do we go with the 218 or 220 we had before, or ditch stupak and modify it significantly enough to get the prochoicers? it's really tricky. they can do it, but it's so close right now. >> it seems like it's still in motion. they announced they're going to

have a vote next week in the house on the insurance company's antitrust protection. >> that would be a given for the republicans. >> in terms of -- >> they want that, they've been saying that all along. >> that would be aanother one these issues of saying -- let's find something. >> find something. i think the democrats are willing to make a reasonable cap on damages if they can get health care reform. and that's less of a compromise if you think about it on moral terms, than some of the issues of choice, which are harder for them. >> i think what's got to happen, in terms putting together something that's going to work, you have to -- you can box republicans in on these votes that they're going to have a hard time explaining why they vote no. but it's not just a political gain, have you to pass something, and have you to do it with zero republicans. >> in the senate, yeah. and i think in the house, except for the fellow from new orleans. >> yeah, i don't even know if i can count on him any more. he said he wouldn't vote for it, he voted for it the one time. >> it doesn't make any sense. he's zany.

you have to be consistent. i use the term marinade. i think if you sit and wait a couple weeks, it sinks in the to democrats that are worried. they're in purple districts. it's better for them to act. remember i said a few weeks ago, the worry is not that government's tilting to the left, that's what it does. it's when you see it can't act and somebody says it's because it's leaning left. no, what initially gets to you is the high unemployment rate and the symptoms that they can't act. >> they have no choice. >> if you can move and act, it makes up for a lot of sins in terms of ideology with the middle. they like to see an act of government. >> chris matthews, the host of msnbc's "hardball." it's nice to be here on set with you. >> i like joining the night shift occasionally. >> sorry to keep you up late. >> i'm not that all. i don't go to bed at 9:00. >> i didn't mean to imply. john mccain came out angrily in favor of keeping don't ask

don't tell. he used to say he would favor getting rid of it if the military wanted to. they want to. the census helps us know exactly what we need. so everyone can get their fair share of funding. we can't move forward until you mail it back. 2010 census that's what's gonna happen here. ♪ because you're tasty with toasty whole grain. [ crunch ] wheat thins. toasted. whole grain. crunch. the crunch is calling.

in 2006 senator john mccain said he'd be ready to let gay people serve in the military if pentagon leaders said they're for it. well, they're for it, so john mccain today was angrily still dead set against it. more on that next. some models look so mad. maybe it's because their department store makeup is so expensive. simply ageless with olay regenerist serum costs less

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you may know that the person we just had as a guest on this show, chris matthews does a

hardball college tour, right before the midterm elections in 2006, he had john mccain on the college tour with him in iowa. they took questions from the crowd. >> our military needs as many fine young men and women as we can get. >> yes. >> why do we have a policy that discriminates on the basis of declared sell you'll orientation? >> i listened to people like general colin powell, former chairman of the joint chiefs of staff, and literally every military leader i know, and they testified before congress that they felt that the don't ask don't tell policy was the most appropriate way to conduct ourselves in the military. i understand the opposition to it, and i've had these debates and discussions, but the day that the leadership of the military comes to me and says, senator, we ought to change the policy, then i think we ought to consider seriously changing, because those leaders in the military are the ones we give

the responsibility to. >> that was john mccain speaking in 2006, felling "hardball" that the day the leadership of the military says that don't ask don't tell should be changed, on that day he'd consider changing the policy. that day was today. >> it is my personal belief that allowing gays and lesbians to serve openly would be the right thing to do. no matter how i look at this issue, i cannot escape being troubled by the fact that we have in place a policy which forces young men and women to lie about who they are in order to defend their fellow citizens. for me, personally, it comes down to integrity. theirs as individuals and ours as an institution. >> during the state of the union address, the president announced he will work with congress this year to repeal the law known as don't ask, don't tell. he subsequently directed the department of defense to begin

the preparations necessary for a repeal of the current law and policy. i fully support the president's decision. >> today the chairman of the joint chiefs of staff, admiral mike mullen and bob gates expressed support for repealing don't ask don't tell. john mccain is on record saying that's what he would need to hear to change the policy, that's not how john mccain reacted at today's hearing. at all. in fact, he sort of blew a gasket. >> i'm deeply disappointed in your statement secretary gates. your statement, obviously is one which is clearly biassed, without the view of congress being taken into consideration. you are embarking on saying it's not whether the military prepares to make the change, but how we best prepare for it, without ever hearing from members of congress. >> so for john mccain, as long as the military leadership is

against gay people serving in the military, he wants to defer to their judgment. if the military leadership is for gay people serving in the military, he thinks the military leadership should defer to him. last year he did an interview, he said in his very first day in office if elected president, he would have asked the chairman of the joint chiefs to review don't ask, don't tell. >> do you have -- >> right now the joint chiefs have said that the policy's working and that in their view, it should be kept in place. but again, if i were president, the day i was elected, sworn in, i would have asked the chairman of the joint chiefs, conduct an indepth study and come up with recommendations for me. >> the military is in fact doing an indepth study of don't ask, don't tell now, and the chairman of the joint chiefs of staff says he thinks the policy should be repealed. now that those things, john mccain said he would defer to

are actually happening, senator mccain has changed his bhind th mind about them. in addition to his loss of temper today, a couple of other important things happened, first, carl levin made clear that dropping don't ask, don't tell can happen with not 60 votes, but 50 in the senate, or maybe even 40. this was a sort of subtle but important moment at the hearing. watch his exchange here with joe lieberman. >> it's up to us, we in the congress, and in the senate, we have to get 60 votes to repeal don't ask don't tell, or else it will remain in effect. thank you. >> unless there's a provision inside the defense authorization bill that goes to the floor which would then require an amendment to strike it from the bill, in which case the 60 vote

rule would be turning the other way. >> it is -- no, it is with great appreciation that i accept the higher wisdom of the chairman on the committee. >> senator lev season saying that on the senate side, if repealing don't ask don't tell could be done as part of a big defense bill, a big defense authorization bill which is how don't ask don't tell became law in the first place, it would take 60 votes to kill the repeal, not 60 votes to hold on to the policy. which means that even as the military is announcing a year long process for studying and figuring out the implementation issues of getting rid of the policy, congress could move right away, there's no reason for congress to wait on the senate side at least, there is a clear path. the other important thing that happened today, is the opposition to repealing don't ask don't tell, had a bad, bad, bad day in opposition. in addition to senator mccain doing his big awkward angry flip-flop on the matter, senator

chambliss had one person in the hearing room, sitting three rows behind me, audibly snorting coffee out of his or her nose. >> the military society is characterized by its own laws, rules, customs and traditions, including restrictions on personal behavior that would not be acceptable in civilian society. examples include alcohol use, adultery, fraternization and body art. if we change this rule of don't ask don't tell, what are we going to do with these other issues. >> it was at that moment that senator chambliss uttered the phrase body art that i distinctly heard someone snort coffee out of their nose. in some, the basic talking points of republicans against repealing don't ask, don't tell.

aside from the it will lead to more tattoos world. essentially the talking points are leftover from 1993. back then they were able to turn the issue into bad politics for president clinton who wanted to get rid of the prohibition of gays in the military. colin powell against gays in the military, bill clinton for gays in the military. the political advantage went to colin powell and the conservatives on his side. that dynamic is over now. and conservatives who are trying to find an anti-gay ally this time around in the chairman of the joint chiefs are embarrassing themselves by doing so. watch this. >> it does go to a fundamental principle with me, which is everybody counts. and part of the struggle back to the institutional integrity aspect of this -- >> well, i know, i'm -- >> and putting individuals in a position that every single day

they wonder whether today's going to be the day. and devaluing them in that regard just is inconsistent with us as an institution. i have served with homosexuals since 1968. senator mccain spoke to that in his statement. everybody in the military has. and we understand that, so it is a number of things which cumulatively for me personally get me to this position. for me this is not about command influence this is about leadership. and i take that very seriously. >> and can you see in the face of senator jeff sessions there that the leadership from the chairman of the joint chiefs of staff, admiral mike mullen is likely to make the difference. there, in that bag! mom: who wants a beggin' strip? dog: me! i'd get it myself but i don't have thumbs!

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i think the live and let live policy is not a bad policy to adhere to, and that's what we have in place in the military with don't ask, don't tell right now. >> has this policy been ideal? no, it has not. but it's been effective. it's helped to balance a potentially disruptive tension between the desires of a minority, and the broader interests of our all volunteer force. it's well understood and predominantly supported by our fighting men and women.

it prefliekts as i understand them the preferences of our uniformed servers. >> i don't think they're required to lie about who they are, i think that's an overstatement. although, i think the rule of don't ask, don't tell has seemed to work pretty well. >> joining us now is someone whose very existence gives lie to those claims that don't ask don't tell is working out great for the country and great for the military, lieutenant colonel farenbachen. 19-year veteran, he was outed by a sevilcivilian acquaintance. his discharge under don't ask don't tell is pending. thank you for joining us again, particularly because you're standing in a very cold outdoor location. >> it is cold, rachel. thank you. >> when i was in the hearing

room today at the senate listening to those republican senators talk about how well don't ask don't tell works, how effective it is, in my mind i wanted to hear your response to that. what is your response. >> well, first of all, let me say this, senator mccain is a hero of minie, it was very disconcerting to hear that. he is the reason i joined the military. i felt i owed him personally and his generation a debt, and i wanted to repay that with service to my country. i would like to hear those that are proponents of this law to explain to me how it's possibly successful, how it's working. i can show you evidence how it's unconstitutional. how it's blatant discrimination, i can show you evidence how it hurts the combat of my squadron in particular, when you do it 13,500 times over with people

with critical combat skills in the middle of two wars at the cost of billions of dollars how it hurts national security as a whole. i can invite these people to come to work with me tomorrow and show you how military professionals don't care about someone's personal private life, they care about somebody who's able to emcute the mission, dedicated and professional. that's what the people care about that i work with every day. >> congress has to repeal this policy, obviously. the military has to implement that repeal, they say they want a year to figure out implementation. but in the interim, the secretary of defense today said they want to constrain the way the policy is applied. they want to try to make it more fair, at least until they can get rid of it. what's your reaction to that. >> well, i think we'll have to wait and hear -- i know my lawyer and service members are going to look for more information on that topic, and whether that applies to me and

my case in particular, i just don't know yet. what i heard today is like you said, they want to look into ways of possibly apply it more leniently while they look into the implementation plan. now, whether that means that it takes effect right away and it applies only to future cases, we don't know yet. we're going to need to hear more details. i hope what it means is that cases that are pending like mine, that hopefully they'll be able to look at the way this was handled and they're able to dismiss my case. >> are you disappointed that the military says it needs a year to study and figure out implementation? does that seem appropriate to you? >> well, rachel, that was one tiny thing that did disappoint me today, the way i see it, this issue's been studied for over 15 years now, and the best example i can give, we have 25 allied

country that is we work with and go to war with every day, and they have ended their bans. i've served with people from australia, canada and the united kingdom, i've been deployed with them in tent city and it was a nonissue for them. if we need a year to talk about the issues we do need to tackle. and there are important issues we'll need to look at. they talked about housing and others, all we need to do is look at the models of our 25 allies, they've tackled these issues and come up with solutions. i don't think that takes a year, i think we can make a couple phone calls and get this done in 30 or 60 days. >> how important do you think it is for leaders like admiral mullen to show personal leadership on this, to say he's personally committed to repealing this and doing it right? do you think that's significant? >> absolutely. i think this was a hopeful, promising historic day. this is the first time we've seen military leaders, the very top of the military make these kinds of statements, and i want

to say i was overwhelmed by admiral mullen's statements, his commitment. it sounded personal, it sounded from the heart that this wasn't something he was told to do, this was something that was personal and really meant something to him, i was overwhelmed by that teed. >> lieutenant colonel victor fahenbach thank you for joining us, get inside somewhere warm. it's nice to see you. >> nice to see you. the rachel maddow show is live from washington, d.c., today, we will be right back. [ birds screech ]

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still ahead, president obama says health reform is in the proverbial red zone, which is a football thing. that's a good thing for health reform. congressman anthony weiner joins us for that. plus, saints versus colts, a musical throwdown. as our super bowl mardi gras week continues. the man accused of trying to blow up a plane headed for detroit on christmas day. with closers he had hidden in his scivvys. a number of republican lawmakers called it a travesty he was read

his miranda rights, they wanted him until military custody. today robert mueller told congress despite being read his miranda rights the christmas day underwear bomber suspect is still cooperating with investigators and giving them useful intelligence. two fbi officials flew to nigeria on new year's day, to meet with mr. abdulmutallab's family. a few of his family members flew back to the u.s. with the fbi. they convinced the man to cooperate with authorities, the official says that standard fbi interrogation practices were used in the interrogation of mr. abdulmutallab they say that richard reid the shoe bomber was myr mirandised within the first five minutes of his detention. mr. abdulmutallab is apparently still talking to and cooperating with authorities. the attempted politicization of

his arrest seems to be misfiring. next up, a snapshot of today's republican party, i don't mean republican leadership in congress or michael steele, i mean, average every day self-identifying republicans, joe the republicans if you will, polled coast-to-coast by research 2000, this poll was commissioned by daily coast, now, daily coast is an influential liberal website, the polling firm that did the survey is a nonpartisan mainstream polling organization, and this is what they found out about today's republican party. not just its base, but the party. you ready? the number of rank and file republicans who think president obama should be impeached for something? is 39%. the number of rank and file republicans who think president obama is a socialist? more than 6 0%. the number of rank and file republicans who think the president was not born in this country or are not sure, almost 65%. the proportion of republicans

who think the president is a terrorist sympathizer who wants terrorists to win, that he's rooting for terrorists is nearly one in four. the proportion of rank and file republicans who think that acorn stole the presidential election more than one in five. the number of rank and file republicans who think that president obama is a racist, who hates white people, like, for example, his mother, the proportion is 31%. almost a quarter of republicans think their state should secede from the country. country first. remember these numbers when somebody asks you why everything can't be more bipartisan these days. importantly, though, there is no known correlation between political sanity and political motivation, when asked whether or not they would vote in november, 83% of these rank and file republicans said yes. which means they should totally run othrly taitz in 2012.

what effects oil supply in that's easy, demand, reserves, refining capacity. pumping limits by the oil producing nations. swordfish. swordfi swordfish? yes, swordfish have reportedly punctured a flexible loading pipe operated by a french loading company in angola. tarnger shipments were delayed for three days that will lead to additional delays for the next two months. this is the part of the story where you want to see a picture of a swordfish, and another picture of a swordfish. yes, hello, pretty. how about two seconds of a video of a swordfish captured on a submersible camera. and this is the part where i say to protect crude oil supplies we will have to fish baby fish. i love winter.

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... handling even the toughest conditions... is just another day at the beach. michelle bachman is warning that the japanese health care system is a secret plot to kill

dissenters. we will hear the latest remark, and ask anthony weiner what it might mean for passing american health reform next. and choose any car in the aisle. you know how that makes me feel? like dancing? ♪ oh, yeah. go national. go like a pro. you and your tasty whole grain. this can only end one way. [ crunch ] wheat thins. toasted. whole grain. crunch. the crunch is calling.

we're essentially on the five yard line for those who like football analogies. we've had to go into overtime, but we are now in the red zone. that's exactly right. we're in the red zone. we have to punch it through.

>> the whole country has football on the brain right now. we cannot have a conversation without talking football. what president obama wants to punch through in overtime is health reform. 60 years and coming, it's passed the house, it's passed the senate, democrats have huge majorities in both houses in congress. and yet beltway wisdom keeps trying to say it's done. if president obama's speech was not enough to convince you that health care is not dead, consider the far right of the political spectrum is still speechifying on health care too. >> government takeover of health care is the crown jewel of socialism. >> michelle bachman still campaigning to kill health reform, which she wouldn't be doing if the bill weren't alive. health reform is alive enough that its opponents are inventing new conspiracy theorys to use against it.

health reform was once a secret plot to kill old people, then it was a secret plot to hurt veterans, then a secret plot to deny health care to all republicans. if you can't get enough of the conspiracy theorys of health reform, i have good news. now conspiracy theorys are turning japanese. >> they showed me a little card that was about this big, and he said, this is my card from when i lived in japan. and japan had the government takeover of health care. this is something that people don't know. in japan, people have stopped voicing their opinion on health care. because they know that they would get on a list and they would not get health care, they wouldn't get in, they wouldn't get seen. people are afraid to speak back to government, they're afraid to say anything. is that what we want for our future? that takes us to gangster government at that point. >> michelle bachman warning that

the japanese were all secretly born in kenya or something. you know, this is what the five yard looks like, the republicans are on the offense, in this metaphor, somebody should be wide open, shouldn't they? joining us right now is anthony weiner of new york, thanks for your time.you. i'm not going to ask you about japanese secret plots and conspiracies. but i wonder if that is reasonable -- it is reasonable to take that as a sign that the right isn't giving up on this stuff, that health reform is still alive and kicking. >> i think it's also interesting when the president went to new hampshire he went up there to talk about jobs and opened to questions and most of the questions were about health care. the american people want this to continue and they're frustrated. i think the president today -- boy, i wish the president sounded that way three months ago rather than worshipping at the altar of ben nelson and

olympia snowe pip take it as a good sign. buried in the budget yesterday was the assumption of $150 million of savings, $150 billion of savings over the next ten years for health care reform. so the president's number crunchers still think it's alive. the people in new hampshire think it's alive. people like michele bachmann and whoever talks to her from the mother ship thinks it's alive. that's a good sign but doesn't mean we're that much closer to getting a deal today than yesterday. but if the president plows ahead with this and goes long or short or whatever he has to do here and gets over the goal line, i think we'll be better off. >> drilling down on that, though, you have been very vocal on the fact that health reform needs presidential leadership, presidential energy in order to pass. it also needs to be lent some of his presidential popularity, i think. how does it help? does it move legislators who are on the fence? does it create the sense among the leadership in either house of congress that they've got to

do something soon at a moment when they can? how is it made concrete? how is it manifest? >> here it is. i think the president has acted kind of like lyndon johnson the last few months, trying to arm twist, massage the vote to get to 60 votes. but you need a little leavening of ronald reagan or bill clinton or abe lincoln to talk to the country about why this is important. we're asking members to take some tough votes for a lot of them. and yet the president seems to have been reluctant until relatively recently to really sock it in on some of these things. i put this way. if he had gone around the country talking about how important the public option was in various states, those senators might have given him the 60 votes. it's a chicken and egg think. you can't just say we don't have them. you won't get them unless you push them. if the president speaks like he did today for the next weeks, i think we'll get to the 60 votes on the things we want to get. >> we've been hearing rumblings from the house leadership they may take up one specific part of health reform. it's the insurance company's

antitrust exemption. what do you make of that? >> for months and months republicans have said why don't you let insurance companies compete over state lines. if so they should be governed like any other commerce. no exemption from antitrust. there's no good reason to give them. used to be we want them to exchange information to rate us properly. now they're using it as a giant gap in the regulations. that's one thing. but a lot of the other things have to go together. require people get coverage, we have to have subsidies to get it less expensively. if we require they cover more people, make sure they don't raise rates on everyone else. i think you still need a comprehensive bill like we have in the house. >> there's only a few things you can do in stand-alone ways. great to see you here. thanks for coming. coming up on "countdown," the christmas day underpants bomber is talking without waterboarding and with miranda rights. chris reports what the torture

fetishes among this government's critics will make of that. our countdown to the new orleans show continues with a musical smackdown of champions. first with the michele bachmann of the be afraid of japanese health care. we don't know why but she's lost three chiefs of staff in the last three years and today learned she's losing another one. she's said good-bye to her press secretary, debbie keller, who had been on the job for less than a year. in an e-mail to friends and colleagues, she announced -- she joins more than a dozen other staffers who have left congresswoman bachmann's office for exciting new opportunities since she took office in 2006. again, we do not understand the reasons behind this but it is quite a tribute to the congresswoman, one way or the other. ♪

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as i mentioned last night, this show will be broadcasting live from the french quarter in new orleans this friday night. we're so excited. in that spirit, kent jones has another saints v. colts story for us. hey, kent. >> hi, rachel. there's more than just a football rivalry going on between the new orleans saints and the indianapolis colts. fans of each team have recorded special super bowl songs for the big game. for the saints, here is the song "glory bound" featuring theresa anderson and the great aaron neville. hit it. ♪ oh, when the saints go marching in ♪ ♪ when the saints go marching in ♪ ♪ i want to be in that number ♪ that number ♪ when the saints go marching in ♪ ♪ yeah ♪ o when the saints ♪ go marching in

♪ >> when the saints go marching in ♪ ♪ when the saints ♪ i want to be in that number when the saints go marching in ♪ >> yeah, okay. proceeds from the downloads of "glory bound" will benefit a health insurance program for new orleans musicians, so it's extra cool. now for the afc champion indianapolis colts here are the mud kids with "do it again colts 10." hit it. ♪ big goal super bowl ♪ we close the roof in the indiana home ♪ ♪ swing the brick, short drop and the slant is thrown ♪ ♪ deal with that ♪ not talking smack it's the actual smack ♪ ♪ rarely do you see the mvp on his back ♪ ♪ supercomputer above the neck, show respect ♪ ♪ receiver the deep threat ♪ no regrets

♪ defensive sets makes adjustments ♪ ♪ we're in the stands freaking out ♪ ♪ seeking out another victory >> yeah. >> wow! >> indiana hip-hop. i like it. >> i got to say i really like both tracks, but i think it's a bad idea to try to pick a fight with new orleans on the basis of music under any circumstances. >> very sound advice, very sage. >> also beads and benets. that does it for us. "countdown with keith olbermann" starts right now. which of these stories will you be talking about tomorrow? the breaking news that the underwear bomber is cooperating again with authorities? what he's spilling is current the u.s. is aggressively pursuing it in yemen. quoting an administration

official, this isn't stale. it's proving to be very valuable. he's talking even though we haven't hung him upside down in his cell, even though we read him his miranda rights, even even though we let him have a lawyer, even though we didn't sell out our principles or constitution. sort of destroys the main republican talking point on this, doesn't it? "don't ask, don't tell," don't live up to your own words. 2006, john mccain says, if the military men told him it was time to end don't ask don't tell, he'd listen. today -- >> it is my personal belief that allowing gays and lesbians to serve openly would be the right thing to do. a. >> so they told him and then he told them they are wrong and he won't listen to them anyway. just lie about it. frank luntz writes a guidebook for defeating financial reform. just lie and say it means more bailouts for wall street. little jimmy olson o'keefe explains it all. >> we're not stopping our goal is to expose truth and corruption until it's gone. and that's if. >> will that be before or after