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mitchell reports," on capitol hill this hour, toyota under fire. today the head of the company from japan facing the first transportation secretary ray lahood is in the hot seat. >> somebody wants to criticize ntsa or the department, i will be responsible for that. not somebody else. that's my job. i'm not going to duck it. i'm not going to give it to somebody that's been on the job 40 days. >> i'm andrea mitchell in washington. ray lahood will be with us shortly. the president is speaking to the business roundtable. late latest economic report today, new home sales hit basement in january. a day ahead of the big white house health care summit.

outrage, congress investigates. we will be talking with senator dianne feinstein who is leading the charge against the sky high rocketing premiums. orrin hatches who message to the president on health care is start over. good day. i'm andrea mitchell in washington. and the president is speaking to the business roundtable. let's go right to his speech. >> in which a continued erosion of america's manufacturing base hollowed out many communities around the country and put too many good jobs out of reach. no wonder then that people are frustrated. they are frustrated with government and they are frustrated with businesses. they are angry at a financial sector that took exorbitant risks by some and pursue of short-terp profits and they are angry at a government that failed to kapp catch the problem on time. they are angry at the price they paid to prevent a financial meltdown that they didn't cause and they are angry that recovery

in their own lives seems to be lagging the involve -- lagging the recovery of bank profitability. they are angry at the lobbyists who used their influence to put their special interests ahead of the public interests. and although both parties are predictably scrambling to line themselves with people's frustrations, nightser the usual answers from the left or the right seem to be inspiring much confidence. so we have big challenges ahead. and i think all of us know we can't meet them by returning to the precrisis status quo. an economy too dependent on a housing bubble, consumer debt, on financial speculation, and on growing deficits. that's not the same for american workers and not sustainable for american businesses. instead we need an economy where we borrow less and produce more. we need an economy where we

generate more jobs here at home and spend send more products overseas. we need to invest and nurture the industry in the future. we need to train or workers to compete for those jobs. nations around the world from asia to europe have already realized this. they are putting more emphasis on math and science. they are bidding high-speed railroads and expanding broadband access. they are making serious investments in clean energy because they want those jobs. these countries know what's required to compete in the 21st century. and so do we. as i said in the state of the union, i do not accept second place for the united states of america. we did not achieve global leadership in the last century by luck. or by happenstance. we earned it by working together to define our own destiny and seize the future.

and to maintain our leadership in this new century, we must summon that same result. thriving, competitive america is within our reach. but only if we move forward as one nation. only if we move past those debates and crippling divide between left and right, business and labor, between private enter sxris the public sector. whatever differences we have in this country, all of us have a stake in meeting the same goal. which is america in which a growing prosperity is shared widely by its people. so today i want to spend most of my time talking about the specific steps that we need to take to build this more competitive america. but before i do, i want to talk a little bit about the relationship between business and government in promoting economic growth. contrary to the claims of some

of my critics, some of the editorial pages, i am an ardent believer in the free market. i believe businesses like yours are the engines of economic growth in the country. you create jobs. you develop new products. and cutting-edge technologies and you create the supply chains that make it possible for small businesses to open their doors. so i want everyone in this room to succeed. i want your shareholders to do well. i want your workers to do well. i want you to do well. because i firmly believe america's success in large part depends on your success. internationally. i also believe this. government has a vital limited role to play in fostering the sustained economic growth. creating foundation for you to

succeed. throughout our history, the government has done so in three ways. first, government set up basic rules of the marketplace. from the enforcement of contracts and managing the money supply to maintaining airline safety standards and creating federal deposit insurance. on balance, these rules have been good for business, not bad. they ensure honest competition and fair dealing. level playing field. second, only government can make those investments in common goods that serve the general welfare but that are too expensive for any individual or firm to purchase on their own. armed force it is most obvious example. but government also built infrastructure, roads, ports, railways, highways that enable commerce to spur entire

industries. government invested in research, new crop fields for farmers and the internet. government invested in our people through land xrant colleges and gi bill. finally, government has provided a social safety net to guarantee a basic level of security for all of our citizens. and this last role has been obviously a source of great controversy over the last several decades. i think most americans and most business leaders would agree that programs like social security, medicare, medicaid, unemployment insurance, haven't just saved millions from poverty, they helped secure broad based consensus that's so critical to a functioning market economy. business roundtable has always understood that in each of these instances, government hasn't stepped in to supplant private enterprise but cat lies it and create the conditions for entrepreneurs and new businesses

to adapt and thrive. but i take the time to mauck these points because we have arrived at at a juncture in our politics where reasonable efforts to update our regulations or make basic investments in our future, too often greeted with cries of government takeover or even socialism. not only does that kind of rhetoric deny our history, but it prevents us from asking hard questions about the right balance between the private and public sectors. i will give you examples. too little investment in a competitive infrastructure for educational sis that works for our children. and we risk falling behind countries making these investments right now. on the other hand, if we just throw money at poorly planned projects or failing schools, then we will remain in debt to those same countries for decades to come. >> the president declares business roundtable he's a free

marketer. he's not a socialist as some critics suggested. here at the table with me, steve mcmahon, democratic strategist on msnbc analyst pat buchanan. pat, what is his point here? he is talking to the business elite. message is also to get out to the done. >> i his basic point is look i'm the mainstream democrat. i'm a free market advocate and here for government and our job is to help private enterprise do the job. it is not to supplant it. and i think it is a very centrist message he is delivering from all over that i read and heard so far. >> he's saying let's not hurl accusations, he is saying let's come back to a new normal in washington. >> right. david axelrod put it very well aier ago when he said the president's job is to be inclusive of the opposition and the opposition's job is to be constructive. and i think what he is trying to do at -- in a broader sense is that these are common problems,

not democrat problems or republican problems. they are america's problems. we have to do it for the good of our country that may not always be for the good our party. i think it is a centrist message as well. >> he is making a political message. obama has been hit with a socialist charge and has been hit -- people on wall street supported him. people on wall street who supported him apparently are turning off and turning towards -- good angry at the pop list many. >> angry at his populism. >> and rhetoric that came after the massachusetts -- >> they are angry at that and angry at -- because obama -- in a lot of cases he did take over private corporations, bailouts were huge. there is enormous backlash to it. what he is trying to say, some of this stuff hi to do. no other option and that may look like i'm trying to take over the government and take over the world but i'm not. i think he speaking to this audience which is big corporations, 200 top corporations. and he is trying to tell them look, i'm not an ogre.

i'm trying to help. >> he scared a lot of people on wall street, rhetoric that's come out of the white house in the last couple of weeks. and steve, he has -- a tough balancing act. every time he reassures wall street, he make the public angry. >> that's right. there is a line in the speech today where he talks about the recovery has come to wall street before people out in america that paid for it are feeling the recovery themselves. that's the balance that he has to struk here. pat mentioned tipped over all these institutions. let's remember they were failed institutions or failing institutions. >> lot of that started before he took office. >> took them over to avoid even greater failures and world economic collapse. you know, he likes to point out he didn't run for president to take over general motors or to bail out wall street. he ran to tackle big problems americans face. he hasn't been able to get to the big problems because he had to do the other things first. >> let me bring to you his long on compensation. one of the big, obviously, points with the public. let me say here about

compensation, most americans -- don't be grudge awards for jobs well done but what you raged people are the outside bonuses that requires massive public assistance. they have to get that, don't they? >> jamie dimon, a good guy. >> in the room. >> at the dinner last night. >> look, people are out there, just hurting horribly. housing figures today are 1945 or something. and all these folk out there are hurting badly. jamie dimon is making money they can't even dream of. obama has to thread the needle between not fashion wall street and damaging the morale of wall street and at the same time, maintain some sort of sense of community with the working people out there. it is a hard thing to do. >> quick, their argument would be -- they are the ones -- good guys that ran companies that worked well. not bailed out. you can make an argument at goldman if not for the aig

bailout goldman would have been left with a lot of -- what could have brought it down. >> you can make the argument that our banks are better than that bank and this bank didn't do anything. >> whole system. >> i don't think people on main street are making the distinction between goal goal and citigroup. they are seeing wall street get bailed out. they are seeing big bonuses going to a lot of folks. they haven't gotten -- >> that's right. they are getting money at 0% interest and lending it at 5%. or 7%. they are making a bundle and middle america is out there looking at that and saying aren't those the guys that were crying at the door and we bailed them out? they are making all that money. look at us. look where we are. >> pat buchanan and steve mcmahon, thank you very much. coming up, toyota talking about problems. the toyota hearing gets heat order capitol hill today. kelly o'donnell next. later, transportation secretary ray lahood has been in that witness chair. coming up, what can he expect at

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developing right now, toyota's president and ceo is about to be grilled by lawmakers about safety lapses that may have caused as many as 34 deaths. nbc's kelly o'donnell has been following all of this on capitol hill. fascinating hearing. first of all, one of the things that came out is that toyota has acknowledged yesterday, jim lentz did, chair of toyota, that it could have,ing in fact, been

an electric tlonic problem. i just heard secretary lahood say that they -- also examining all americans cars that have these similar electronic systems. this seems to be a growing issue. >> we are learning a lot of things. that's exactly what is being talked about. there has been some discussion of having something kind of like the black box we see on airplanes put into automobiles that have this sort of sophisticated electronics system so there would be a way to record what really happened. what caused the problem. this hearing so far has been rather energetic by congressional standards. ray lahood, secretary of transportation, has made several points. he said that they will work 24/7 in his words to try to resolve this problem. he's acknowledged that the japan part of toyota has not always been as forthcoming but he said that the grandson of the company, aiko toy owed a is a

game changer, the u.s. government had trouble getting answers out of toyota out of the japanese headquarters. that's been important today. there has been a lot of discussion also about where to go with the next step. and it was, again, reiterated that the secretary says if you have one of the cars that's on the list and refers people to the website, in his words, they are not safe unless you go and get the repairs made. what we also learned yesterday, andrea, is that even with the repairs being done now, toyota can't say for certain that that will resolve all of the problems. the more we learn, the more questions that seem to be asked here. >> in fact, when the chairman asked the question, critical question, of ray lahood today, whether cars out there are safe, this is what happened. let's watch. >> do you think it is safe to drive a toyota today? >> i will say that if people check our website, dot.gov, we listed every toyota that is up

for recall. i want anybody that has one of those cars to take it to their dealer and make sure that it gets fixed. >> i don't think you ever really answered the question because you -- he asked you whether or not you consider toyota to be safe. >> for those cars listed on our website, do.gov, for recall, to go back, those are not safe. >> that's the key problem from elijah cummings are those cars safe? he is saying they are not. >> that is the real issue, that certainly for people who own a toyota, have someone in the family that does, that's what breaks through to the consumer. there's a lot more being talked about here going forward. how will the u.s. government do more to oversee things? there have been allegations that perhaps the agency responsible has been too cozy. ray lahood says he won't tolerate that and emphatically again and again said on his watch, he would not prove

anything than safety to be the top priority. he is trying to put forward an idea he will get to the bottom of this. with some controversy today about the fact that the ntsa administrator isn't testifying. lahood says he can speak important the government. >> okay. kelly o'donnell. we will be talking to ray lahood straight from the hearing. works his way across the capital to our cameras. we will have our own followup questions for ray lahood. president obama's 2012 real ex-strategy. [ female announcer ] the latest athletic fabrics that keep you cool and dry have now inspired stayfree® to create a whole new level of comfort when it comes to your period. only stayfree® ultra thins have thermocontrol™. designed with the comfort of athletic fabrics in mind, stayfree® with thermocontrol™ quickly wicks moisture away for exceptional dryness. so you stay incredibly comfortable

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top white house aides are on the offensive. working to help democrats win midterm elections but are also taking an early look at 2012. the spit hoping for a repeat of his 2008 victory and rally his team to secure a secretary term. does seem early to be talking about whether it will be in chicago, washington. what's the calculation going to go? >> my colleague had great store i don't this morning. they are looking at what the re-elected and you are right. it is early. but from the white house's perspective it is never too early to start thinking about 2012. one of the big issues is where is this going to be headquartered. the bush administration struggled with that a little bit. wanting the headquarters of the re-election campaign to be out in the real country somewhere. not inside the beltway. they ended up in suburban virginia just over the river from washington, d.c. the obama folks are saying as of now they would like to it to be in chicago where the last

campaign was headquartered. it is a really symbolically important to be outside the beltway these days. the pressure is on the president. his staff. top adviser. tend to force that decision later on to move that headquarters closer to washington. that's what a lot of people are expecting at this point. >> what about your reporting -- michael enreporting david axelrod might be actually moving back to chicago at some point to take a role in the campaign in the white house? >> yes. mike picked up a couple of names here. axelrod would be a key player at new point to re-elect effort. jim, deputy chief of staff, you don't hear nearly as much about him, as you hear about rahm emanuel, chief of staff. jim messina is a key player among all legislative battle it is white house has been having and looks likes he will be the guy to take charge of this reelect effort in 2012. the trouble here for the white house, beginning to talk about 2012, it will give democrats up on capitol hill the -- they are all focused like a laser beam on

their own pace in 2010 and don't want to be -- they don't want to have the white house 'attention wandering to obama's re-election when they are concerned about their own re-election coming up now. they are a little wary of having this discussed too publicly at this point. >> you think? the -- conventional wisdom over any in congress is that the white house is more concerned about barack obama and his future than their own re-election. certainly doesn't help to see that they have already gain -- office space should be, chicago. they are worried about their own political survival. >> that's right. one of the issues that -- in any presidency where you have democrats on the hill having a much shorter-term time horizon. looking into november. obama is thinking about 2012. you also see some of the early efforts by the white house to do something that looks a little bit like triangulation which we saw in the clinton administration where the president is putting himself squarely in the political middle between the left pring and

democratic party and the right fringe of the republican party. that's an effort that all presidents engage in but this president might be give something of his democratic allies on capitol hill a little bit of angst here as they watch that process. they feel that the president is pulling away from them a little bit. we saw that in the speech the president just gave in which he talks about solutions on the left and solution on the right and not working, positioning himself in the middle. >> concerned with the polls showing they are losing those independent. thank you very much. up next, as washington ramps up for tomorrow's big health care summit, we will be talking with senator dianne feinstein about her efforts to bring skyrocketing premiums under control. plus, senator your own hatch on what ideas republicans will be offering. voting yes for harry reid's job. send me your thoughts. you can find me on twitter at mitchell reports. this is "andrea mitchell reports" only on msnbc. wow, is this... fiber one honey clusters? yes.

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as you can see the toyota hearings still going on. ray lahood as soon as he gets out of there is still testifying as he has been put on the defensive about what toyota knew, when did they know it and why the national highway traffic safety administration did not testify as demanded today. he said he would take the heat for the nhtsa administrator who has only been in office 40 day. >> we have the opportunities to subpoena. >> i can follow up. according to testimony that is going to be provided later by the administrator the agency from 2004 to 2008 and the largest penalty the agency has ever imposed is $1 million. the act of 2000 now authorizes

much higher penalties. what would explain the lack of penalties that was imposed the last several years? >> i have to get back to you on that. that was prior to my stewardship of this agency. i will put that on the record for you. >> thank you. >> thank you. >> gentlemen, yield back? >> i yield zblak i recognize the gentleman from california. >> mr. respect, first of all congratulations. i'm glad to see a fellow classmate serving the nation in a different -- i -- i can't think of a better choice that the president could have made. i'm glad to see threw. >> thank you. >> i -- i -- you happen to drive one of these voeks. hopefully safely and will correct whatever we need to do. but in san diego, we ended up having this incident where a highway patrolman driving his wife, his child, and brother-in-law ended up

basically dying because of the mat issue. when i looked down at those list, i'm wondering, though, somebody -- from my observation from a distance, that could have the reputation of toyota actually been a contributing factor in how this process was handled? some may not know but toyota -- ranked top second only to mercedes and porsche for satisfaction, reputation. i guess if you drive a porsche you darned well better be happy with the vehicle. is it possible that in this process, the great reputation of the dependasxwilt safety toyota created over the last 30 years created prejudice -- against

more strict review because everybody always assumes in the last 20 years -- let me just say ten years from now, ten years ago if you and i would have said we would be here talking about toyota, most of us would have said you are crazy. hugo maybe. you may have been talking about general motors but we never thought it would have been toyota. could have that inherent institutional prejudice -- i'm not saying just to the agency but society as a whole could we have created a situation where maybe there wasn't as critical review upfront on toyota that might have been done if it was a hugo or if it was general motors? >> not in my opinion, mr. bill bray. you know, i have been in this job 15 months. >> ray lahood answering questions from the congressman from california about whether or not people were lulled into the sense of false security by toyota's very excellent reputation. and while -- continue to watch that hearing and talk to secretary lahood, finally gets

out of there, i'm sure he would have liked to have gotten out of there an hour ago. joining us now from the cap capitol, senator feinstein from california. leading the charge against skyrocketing california premiums. california democrats say that a companies out there have been raising their rates out of control. senator, thanks very much for joining us. what does your legislation do? you want to tap the premium, you want something federal role in regulateding how high these premiums can increase. >> well, essentially the legislation would give the secretary of health and human services the ability to evaluate premium increase. it would also create a rate authority to adviser. there would be a mechanism of review of these enormously high premiums increases. you know, the -- the premium rated increases are -- in our

state by one company specifically, anthem blue cross, go up to 39%. this creates an enormous problem for people. think of it if your rent jumps up 40%, my understanding is that anthem blue cross, regardless, regardless, is going to proceed with these rate increases. they believe that they are fair. they believe that they are fair when they have made billions of dollars of profits this past year. i don't believe they are fair. >> i was going to ask you about the profits. at a hearing on the house side today, congressman waxman disclosed wellpoint had in 200839 executives got salaries of a million dollars or more. in 2007, a '08, $27 million was spent on corporate retreats. do you think that congress or part of your legislation should start looking at some of the ways that his money is spent?

and the connections between the increases? >> yes. i think so. in my view, the premium dollar that is spent on health care should be 90%. instead it is 20%, 30% in some companies. they have very fancy headquarters. they pay very big salaries. they have, as you said, expensive retreats. and they are bottom line money makers rather than real health care providers. that's a major concern. you know, 85% of the people of this country had some private health insurance. well, because of spiraling costs, that's dropped by 2.9 million people. additionally 688,000, people who are dropped essentially either are poor or elderly, they immediately go on medicare or medicaid.

so it makes no sense to have this kind of -- profit-seeking and profit-making medical insurance industry in america. if you want health care reform. >> senator, there was another witness today at the waxman hearing. the house side. jeremy arnold describing what happened to him when hess health care bill went up by 74%. watch. >>ville to hope that i don't get sick or injured. hope is not an effective health care policy. hope is not what anthem is supposed to be selling. >> 74% increase in just over a year. how do you defend that if you are anthem? >> you can't defend it. anthem, i'm sure sshg prepared to defend it. it can't be defended. it isn't right. it isn't moral. it should mott be legal.

>> senator, we talk about the health care summit tomorrow and your bill. do you think these kinds of results in california that have gotten a lot of publicity, congress is looking closely at it, is this going to add some, you know, momentum to taking another look at health care and smaller, harry reid, approach doing something? >> well, i think that may well be. the president will have his health care summit. he has some very challenging members going up to the white house. we will see what comes out of that. i think that the p's bill is a good bill. i will support it. i would hope that the parochial interests would be lessened. i introduced the rate authority legislation separately as well. and i don't intend to cease and dough cyst. intend to really fight for this

because it is simply immoral for companies to do this to people. it pushes them off of the insurance. it is counterproductive and it is wrong-headed. we must stop i. i think there is considerable support. there's some people, of course, provincial and if they have an insurance company in their state they may not be for it. anthem is headquartered in california. i'm not for it. nor will i ever be for these kinds of rate increases. and if that bothers anthem, so be it. it doesn't bother me. >> what about trying to get this through by 51 votes? i'm not sure whether this is under reconciliation. first of all, how do you stand on the strategy of going for 51-vote strategy reconciliation in terms of the budget rules on the overall health care bill? what about on your own bill, can you get 60 votes? >>ly tell you how i look at this. the house has three health care reform bills.

the senate has two. we passed out the finance committee bill. the house passed out a bill. that's where we are. two different bills. the president has now added -- a third bill or his bill which is a combination of the house and the senate bill. he has now joined the fray big time. this is, i think, his major domestic policy for the year. it is critical that it get passed. and this is a defining moment for this president. so he has to come forward front and center. he has to fight for this strongly. and many of us will join him in that fight if he fights hard. so i think we can win. do we have to resort to reconciliation? i would hope not. if we do we should. because you can't go this period

of time. there has been national discussion now for well over sixes on which bill. many of the myths have been declumped. people now know there are no such things of death man else. people now know that you don't lose your private insurance. people now know how new people are covered. know people here illegally are not covered. so many of the things that were big issues in august, town meetings, members went to, i think are no longer issues. what is an issue now, is there a plan, whether it is incremental or not, pass with 51 votes, utilizing reconciliation, or with 60 votes, to overcome cloture. that can be signed by this president. and if there is, and i believe there is, we all benefit.

>> dianne feinstein, in it to win it. thank you very much, senator. >> thank you. >> thank you. coming up, what about the republicans? what do they want to hear at tomorrow's white house health care summit? we will talk to senator orrin hatch next. my muscles feel like they've been pounded... my muscles just ache... ... all over my body... ...it just doesn't go away. it's so baffling. (announcer) does this sound like the pain you've been experiencing? this is fibromyalgia. chronic, widespread pain and tenderness that affects millions. sometimes i need a hug... ...but i know it's gonna hurt... (announcer) there is hope. understanding your pain... ...is the first step to treating it. talk to your doctor and visit fibrocenter.com for answers and support.

u.s. has great shot to extend its lead on the medal board today. nbc's jasoning li inin inin ini. >> reporter: women's single states just days after her mother died suddenly of a heart attack. she was was 55 years old. there was so much courage and grace on that ice last night. joannie rochette skated the skate of her life. she got the highest marks of her career. 11,000 people on their feet

cheering for her. when it was all over, she broke down into tears. and went into the arms of her coach. overshadowing really kim nu-ya, south korean, favored in this. she's way ahead of the pack going into tomorrow's final skate subpoena she did skate beautifully but so did joannie rochette who goes into the finals in third place. definitely a contender for a medal. got those scores on the strength of her skating last night. which was extraordinary under any circumstances. >> all right. thank you very much, chris jansing in vancouver. of course, stay tuned to all of nbc's coverage on all the nbc net yoshgs. coming up, orrin hatch. g the ec, g the ec, small business owners have a lot of questions. can paperless billing get me paid faster? how can i keep my best employees? how can i bring down my insurance costs? that's why we're building a community called openforum.com where owners can swap ideas and ask questions.

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republicans are calling for a complete do-over as part of tomorrow's health reform summit. they are pressuring the president to scrap his reform plan, throw it out, throw out

the house and senate bill, start over from square one, this time they say with true bipartisan input. republican senator orrin hatch on the health committee and joins us now. senator, thanks very much for joining us. of course, the white house says they do have bipartisan elements in this and to start over means not to have anything. it would take way too long and would mean waiting another 20 years. they have worked this hard. why not take the building blocks and do a stripped down bill such as harry reid is proposing. >> because it's not a stripped down bill, it's a $2.5 trillion, they add another $75 billion on top of it. there's no way to pay for it. keep in mind we're spending $2.4 trillion on health care in this country, you another $2.6 trillion. you can imagine, the american people just can't live with that. >> they would dispute your numbers. i'm not going to argument numbers. what would be wrong with taking some of the work that's been done already, things you guys can agree on.

some of the crossing state lines and letting people buy insurance without those kinds of barriers, some of the other reform measures that are smaller issues. >> first of all, the bill they are going to put up is a total democrat bill that literally brings everything to washington, gets washington the power over health care. and of course, won't work. so we really do -- we could start over. i think with a group of us, we could have a bill within a month that would be a great bill that would bring american people together, would save money over the long run. i'm worried sick that we're going to pile another $2.6 trillion on top of what already is a huge, costly health care program in this country. without the money to do it. you know, i just don't think we can afford it. >> senator, they say that it's paid for. that put aside, let's say when you guys get together tomorrow

at the blair house, and we'll all be watching, the whole nation will be watching this, let's just assume -- and i think it's a pretty safe assumption -- the president is not going to say, okay, i give in. let's do it over. let's start from scratch. assuming he doesn't do that, is there any give here? do the republicans, mitch mcconnell and the rest of you all sit and say if you're not going to do it over, we're not going to stop or do you start negotiating in public point by point on some of the things where there perhaps could be consensus. >> first of all, you can't do that in six hours. what that isis a photo shoot that really isn't going to do anything about health care other than talk about it. i think you'll find a lot of accusations going back and forth at that particular meeting. look, we can do health care in this country. their goal is to have the federal government control health care. they want to push us towards a singer payer system, which by any definition is socialized

medicine. our goal would be to have the 50-r state laboratories do health care with the help of the federal government and do it in a way that we could have 50 state laboratories, look at and pick and choose among the bess programs and do it with each state's demographics. utah is not new york, massachusetts and utah both have exchanges, health exchanges but they are very different was they have different demographics. if we have a one-side fits all health care program, even their own actuary said it would cost a lot of money. they do it with gimmicks. they put off cadillac health plans for the unions to 2015, after this president will be gone. they also put off a bunch of other costly programs for four years, even though this president may not even be president at the end of his first term. >> we're going to have to leave it there, because we're out of time. please come back tomorrow ort next day. we want to talk about health care and what you'll be

proposing. thanks orrin hatch. thanks for being with us, senator. that does it for me, this edition of "andrea mitchell reports." extended testimony by the transportation secretary, we'll have more on that. tomorrow on the show, former democratic national chairman howard dean plus "hardball's" chris matthews. tamron hall takes over here. you're watching "andrea mitchell reports" on msnbc. vegetables are naturally low in calories. v8 juice gives you 3 of your 5 daily servings. it's a tasty, nutritious way to make this number go up... and help this one go down. v8. what's your number? transform drinks you want, into cold medicine you need. introducing fast crystal packs. a new way from alka-seltzer plus to...

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