pure, uncut, colombian paterson. know how awful of a governor i am now? imagine how i will be if i'm not trying to impress anyone, sort of like a real housewife in new jersey. >> welcome back to "morning joe." >> i'm joe scarborough. the olympics were great. i watched a lot of the events. the hockey game -- >> amazing. >> it was a keeper. >> we were all standing around -- about to go to the park and go sledding and we couldn't because of this last-second goal tied it up 2-2. and then went into overtime. but, my gosh, what a way for the olympics to end, for the united states, but also for canada.

>> nice. >> we were talking. andy, did you see this? >> glued to it. >> andrew ser is with us, along with mike barnicle. >> that was remarkable, beginning to end. >> last night's game, yesterday afternoon's game, spectacular. i'm a huge hockey fan. we were talking about this earlier, joe. if the national hockey league games were played the way the olympic hockey games were played, they would double their nhl and if they could have koch emerick announce. maybe the best sports announcer for any sport i've ever heard. >> i am going to tell you something. yesterday afternoon, and i tried this when i lived in upstate new york. when i was a teenager, at the

height of my physical prowess. i tried cross-country skiing. they had cross-country skiing, their big event. >> 50k. >> these guys have been going for 30 miles and they have a photo fine ish. comes from nowhere, that's the finish. they have been going 30 miles. most remarkable ending. if you go back say 30 seconds back, they didn't -- the guy from norway, northug, no way he was going to catch him and isn't he like 39 years old. i have never seen anything like it. he just exploded. there i was watching cross-country skiing screaming

at the top of my lungs. it really pulled you in. >> you hear about the wall street guys falling in love with curling. did you know about that? >> i did. and i made fun of them last week. listen, i got to say, i don't know what's wrong with me? >> what's wrong with them. >> we watched curling every night this weekend and canada, that lady blew it at the end. even that was compelling. >> that's a sell. >> you got me there. >> at the end, they started singing "oh canada." there is something very dignified and reserved about curling. >> i don't get it. i'll try next time around. >> costas, the entire televised aspect oeft olympics, it was compelling. >> they made everything compelling. a lot going on in news. let's get to today's top stories. millions of people in chile this

morning are being searched for as a new day reveals the massive earthquake. the quake killed more than 700 people and that number is expected to rise. the country's military is deployed to keep a dangerous situation from growing even worse. hundreds of people ransacked stores for food and supplies. secretary of state hillary clinton set to arrive tomorrow to meet with that country's leadership. house speaker nancy pelosi is standing by charlie rangel, under fire for violating house ethics rules. members of both sides of the aisle are criticizing the 20-term democrat for accepting trips to the caribbean that were sponsored by corporations. rangel machinplans to run for a term.

>> it is a public admonishment. he did not knowingly violate house rules that gives him some comfort. what mr. rangel has been admonished for, it's not good. it's a violation of a rule of the house. it was not something that jeopardized our country in any way. so what remains to bean seen what the rest of the work of the committee is and i hope it will be soon. >> i'm just wondering. i keep hearing everybody on the hill saying they are waiting for the investigation. how long are we going to be waiting? seriously. it's been a year. >> we have the answer on the front page of "the new york times." >> plesase. >> the same woman who says that she was going to run the cleanest house in u.s. history is standing by this man.

did you hear her justification? he didn't do anything to jeopardize american. we have a poll. when 50% of americans think their rights are in danger by congress and the u.s. government, i would say that charlie rangel breaking one ethical violation after another, not paying his taxes. >> as chairman of the tax writing committee. >> does great damage to this country and nancy pelosi, like a lot of republicans, decide they like the gavel more than doing the right thing. >> what happens to people in power in washington when they get there. do they think they are invisible, that their actions and words mean nothing in the general public? charlie rangel -- here is the problem with nancy pelosi.

most feel overburdened by taxes. they feel they pay too much and get too few services in return. charlie rangel, presides over the committee that writes tax laws. he doesn't pay his taxes the way you pay your taxes. >> that's because he understand the law so well, mike. >> your the editor of "fortune" magazine. who is the corporation that would keep a guy like this on? with clear ethical violations. >> if you get caught with your hand in the cookie jar like that, you're a goner. there is a different standard. people in corporate america don't get a pass like that. you were ignoant of the law.

try telling that to a kid on the street. >> nancy pelosi says she will run the cleanest congress. secondly, she says he's ignorant of the law. he writes the law. and then she feeds into this terrible, pathetic explanation that it was his staff's fault. >> that's awful. >> and i can tell you. i was there for six months, and you figure it out pretty quickly. if they send you on a trip you always ask. i would always say what is it? what do they want me to do? who is sending me? you always ask. you always ask. who is paying for the trip. because tell them i'm not going to golf with them. this is what i would always do. who is paying for the trip? because i'm not going to golf with them, i'm not going to talk to them and if they laugh at one of my jokes, i'm leaving.

>> can you tell your kids that? can you explain it to your stco constituency? >> i hate to sound cynical, but to feed into a narrative that concerns us, if he were a republican, would we be even having that conversation? he'd be done. >> he'd be on the front page of "the new york times" every day. >> "the washington post," "the new york times." this is not a close call. >> i dent understaon't understa. >> i like charlie, but i would say this about my mother if she had broken the rules that charlie has. if a republican does this, on the front page above the fold

every day. but they put the pressure on nancy pelosi, on steny hoyer, on barack obama. how many people have pressured barack obama to give a response? nancy pelosi is playing by the old washington rules. there is no change in washington. she is playing by old rules. circle the wagons. >> at some point, the investigation is going to come up with something. the house spoker is plotting her strategy. both speaker pelosi and the top white house adviser believes that democrats can gather the necessary votes. the senate must ask first. >> first, we zero in on what the policy will be. and that is what we'll be doing

following the president's summit yesterday. secondly, we'll see what the senate can do. that is the substance. what is the senate prepared to do and we'll go to the third step as to what my members will vote for. >> that strategy appears at odds with a situation with steny hoyer. >> don't they work together? >>roll the sound bite. >> some in the house are reluctant to go before the senate goes. are you, number one, willing to go first and don't you have to? >> whether we're willing or not, we have to go first if we're going to correct some of the things the house disagrees with, correct change so we can reach agreement and the house has to work first on some sort of correctionsor reconciliation bill. >> okay. >> i want to -- and we were

talking during these cuts. i want to explain something. this may be hard for people at home to understand, because a lot of people take politics as a blood sport, and what i said about nancy pelosi or newt gingrich, who became speaker and then forgot why he was there. it's not personal. mike, i know nancy, you know nancy. >> i like her very much. >> i like her very much, just like i like gingrich. i liked murtha. good, decent people. i like charlie rangel, but, guess what? when you run america, you have to be held to a higher standard. and that would apply to me when i was there or anybody else. but something happens to these people. i worked side by side with nancy pelosi for years and years on china, on the human rights, the

stopping of religious persecution in china, of stopping intellectual property. i like her very much. but she just seems -- is clueless and overmatched as newt gingrich did at times. doing things that make them seem some tone deaf. >> part of the is the escalation of partisanship over time. i like her. a terrific human being. very nice person, all of that. tip o'neil, i knew him very well. in terms of history, it's not that long ago. a couple of his best friends were bob michael and jerry ford. republicans on the other side of the aisle. i can't envision speaker pelosi, steny hoyer, any of them have friends on the other side of the aisle. >> steny hoyer, i think he has some friends. >> he's been there for a while. >> he comes from a moderate

district. if you elect somebody from georgia, you will have somebody to the right of middle america. same thing with nancy and san francisco, but, yeah, you saw the other day at the health care summit, i would have -- whenever republicans spoke, nancy pelosi and harry reid would not look at them and make eye contact. you felt like saying this isn't third grade. >> we'll talk about this a little more. i have news. we have new members of the family. we want to say good morning to all of our new viewers in los angeles. >> hey, 6:00 to 9:00, burbank. looking good. >> customers in southern california will be able to wake up with us starting at 6:00 a.m. pacific time. you don't have to get up at 3:00 a.m. >> this is sweeping across the

west coast. but cox 3 in orange county, channel 3, on live 6:00 to 9:00 there. everybody in orange county waking up to "morning joe." they don't have to wake up at 3:00 in the morning. >> or tivo. very exciting. >> major. >> i tell you what. no other news shows do it. picking us up on the west coast. >> so welcome aboard. up next, in a time of polarized politics, rahm emanuel and lindsey fragraham are doing something rarely seen. and chris rock explains health care like only chris rock can, but first, todd santos with

a look at the forecast. >> thanks, and congratulations on the saturation of the west coast. 20 days until spring. until then, we are talking snow showers. some of this switching over to rain from boston to bedford. 36 degrees. gusty winds. 23 to 33 miles per hour at boston's logan airport. may cause some isolated delays this morning. beyond that, too early to drop anything up there. here are numbers by later on this afternoon. temperatures on the mild side. right back. right now you're watching "morning joe," brew bed by starbucks. right now, when you stay two separate times...

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canadian women's hockey team is in trouble too. they were in the locker room

celebrating. somebody asked them to come out and take out on the ice and take a team picture. they brought everything. cigars, beer, champagne. you could tell they were drunk. because none of them were making out with each other. >> welcome back to "morning joe." "the wall street journal," quake toll in chile rises. more than 700 dead and looting hits the hard hit southern region. >> "los angeles times" gop's middle fights foreground. several of them are in good spots to win seats. a watershed moment for the republican faction. >> "the new york times" the white house is rethinking its nuclear policy as a broad new strategy for the u.s. president obama will permanently reduce the arsenal by thousands

of weapons. >> "the washington post "oishg a record haul for the u.s. u.s. finishes the olympics with 37 medals. "the vancouver sun," fireworks during the closing ceremony in vancouver. >> a great olympics. my cynicism was dashed on the rocks of reality. >> i'm glad we'll have willie and chris back. if at some point they'll show up. >> i don't think they'll be back for a while. >> what happened? >> well -- >> is he in a vancouver jail cell. but he went up the river? >> i posted bail for him this morning at 6:00 a.m. >> it wasn't like a wild guess on my part. i got an e-mail last night quoting warren zevon. >> gracious. all right. with us now, chief political correspondent for politico, mike

allen, here with this morning's playbook. >> good monday morning, mika. >> ram ee mm rahm emanuel findi interesting republican friend in the white house. >> rahm's negotiating buddy is lindsey graham. they are working together on a deal to close guantanamo bay. they started working together when they were doing debate negotiations. rahm emanuel for president obama. lindsey graham for john mccain and got to have a working relationship that's extended to a bunch of issues. could even result in an energy bill down the road. >> huh. >> all right. and the "r" word. how are both parties trying to spin the upcoming showdown over health care? the word being, of course, reconciliation? >> or rahm is through as dred

likes to call it. a big vulnerability is having this portrayed as some sort of back-door trick or parliamentary sleight of hand. they are out there looking and saying republicans have used it in the past and rather than calling it reconciliation which nobody can say and nobody understand, they are saying simple majority, which sounds lemon scented and nobody can argue with. >> is it a good idea for them to push it through on simple reconciliation if only 35%, 40% of americans support this bill? >> i would say this is a big gamble. you are taking something unpopular on substance and unpopular on the procedure and doing it right before a tough election. you're right. that's maybe tripling down. >> that is tripling down. mike allen with politico.

thank you. we've been seeing polls, mike barnicle for probably six months where americans said, okay, if you want to pass health care, we want it to be bipartisan. >> you know, joe. you have to ask yourself a question. at the end of the day, do we send people to washington to read polls or do we send them to do what we believe is right or wrong for the country? too many of them go to washington and they intend to do this and someone says look at this poll and they go the other way. >> i think there's a reason why the poll numbers are so low. >> don't you think people don't understand health care. people understand it's not working and it's getting worse. and i don't think people have a plan that people have latched onto, but if someone could craft a plan, people would be receptive. >> it depends on how they frame the question. are you in favor of this health

care bill? i might say at this point, i'm not in favor. are you in favor of eliminating preexisting condition? yeah. are you in favor of portability for coverage? yeah. they are in favor of components. >> are you in favor of the government having a deal with the tort lawyers so there is no tort reform? no are you -- >> let's do it right now. we're doing it. >> it's easy. >> are you in favor of -- and this is the most telling thing. glenn greenwald was sitting right there, he says this is a terrible bill because nobody wins more than the health insurance industry that nancy pelosi calls villain. they are forcing a universal

mandate. so to tell everybody you have to buy from health insurance companies and nothing on there to protect them. so i will guarantee you, if you talk to the top health insurance ceos in america, they would be for it. >> yeah. >> -- there's no government option anymore. >> now there is just a mandate. you punish somebody if you don't buy from them. they are making these people wealthier than anybody. coming up, what doctors are saying after president obama's first medical checkup since taking office. more on last night's epic hockey game. sports is next. we'll be right back.

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go ahead. >> he says henry paulson told him that the bailout would focus on the mortgage meltdown, not wall street. it comes as mccain faces a serious primary challenge from j.d. hayworth. >> i'll be seeing paulson tonight. i'll ask him about that. >> you mislead a guy who has been in washington for 30 years. >> slipped that one by him. >> this came as a surprise. >> he talked on "meet the press" how he's been in washington a long time. >> $70 0 billion. misled. stocks higher in europe amid a report that the eu will prop up greece. the country faces more than $30 million in debt payments.

france and germany are in talks to offer loan guarantees. and according to his first official checkup, president obama is in excellent health and "fit for duty." it is recommended that the president take steps to bring down his cholesterol. >> what steps? he exercises something all the time and he doesn't eat. >> the drug companies have something for him. >> oh, no. i took some of those, and i got very sick. it's diet. >> may i just side with maureen dowd and say eat a doughnut. >> he's still smoking. >> apparently this guy is the healthiest guy in the world. >> how come he has cholesterol problems? >> it's diet. >> sometimes it's not diet.

>> no pills. >> why not? >> i got sick. very, very sick. >> you can take the pills to bring your cholesterol down. >> lipitor made you sick? >> very sick. >> you tried to get my blood up baconed. >> i had high cholesterol, i reduced it with diet. a very strict down. i literally brought my cholesterol down. >> speaking of celery sticks, we're moving to hockey sticks. the entire nation on the backs of the men's hockey team. canada up 1-0. corey perry slips one by ryan miller. third period. 24 seconds left in the period. 2-1 lead. canada nearly can taste the gold

medal, but zach parazi, right through the pipes. and we go to overtime. look at that. poor ryan miller. sidney crosby beat helm through the legs. can go, going crazy. it's their sport. ryan miller, mvp, though. standup guy. >> he was amazing. >> i would have preferred it to be the other way around, but it was a good game. our guys fought hard, a great tournament. for a team that was an afterthought, we certainly came close. >> greatest hockey i've seen in years, greatest hockey announcer, greatest sports announcer ever, doc emerick. >> bob costas was saying, no hyper bolly, there will never be a sporting event greater than in in canada.

home ice. overtime, in vancouver. >> sydney crosby, greatest player today. >> never buy another meal again in canada. >> ryan miller, amazing. >> they wouldn't have been there yesterday without ryan miller. >> all right. speaking of amazing, coming up next, "the new york times" john harwood and the must-read opinion pages. you're watching "morning joe," brewed by starbucks.

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you know, we share some of the views of the tea partyiers in terms of the role of special interests in washington, d.c. that it just has to stop. some of the is orchestrated from

republican headquarters. some of it is hijacking the good intentions of lots of people who share some of our concerns that we have, about -- about the role of special interests. >> oh. that's good to hear. nancy pelosi. >> tea party. she said that the tea partyiers share a lot of her concerns. >> earl grey. >> with crumpets. >> that's creepy. here with us now, john harwood. welcome to the conversation. >> good morning, mika. can i just say, though, hank paulson misled me into coming onto this show. >> he keeps doing that to people. >> he told me we were going to talk about duke beating uva in charlotte last night. >> yeah, well i guess he lied to you.

let's talk about that. you know john mccain. here is a guy with a straight face, a guy in washington, d.c., a congressman since 1982, saying he was duped to signing on to a $700 million bill. >> i don't see what his point is, though. he said we thought it was going to go to toxic assets. who did he think held the toxic assets? one way or the other, they were trying to bail out wall street. everybody knew that. what's the method for bailing out wall street? >> why is john mccain saying this now? >> because of j.d. hayworth, your old buddy from the house. >> we have the sound bite. do you want to play it now or wait until later. >> let's play it. >> he talks about his decades of experience, and knowing washington, and knowing bipartisanship when he sees it. >> which one is it? >> here is john mccain on this issue. >> you said you were misled by

former treasury secretary paulson. >> we were all misled. he said they were going after the toxic assets. the toxic assets were the housing market. he testified to that. i mean, we were all misled. what did he do then? started pumping money into the financial institutions. now the financial institutions are fine. wall street is doing great. main street is in deep trouble. >> so it came as a shock. >> i'm confused. i remember at the time because we had congressman john chatig on the show and he was very concerned. he didn't fall for that. >> and also under the same arizona delegation, and john chatig from arizona was telling us that you didn't know where this money was going, because it was just three pages, and it gave the administration way too much power, so if a congressman -- a lowly congressman knew at the time and

was saying on "morning joe" the problems with this bill, i'm surprised a guy that wanted to be president of the united states is coming forward saying i was tricked. >> it's pretty surprising, joe. didn't john mccain suspend his campaign to come back to get his arms around this problem? >> he swooped in. >> and also more damning for john mccain, he had former staffers there who said they could not get him to focus on the bill, even driving over to the white house. >> that's why he didn't understand. >> even driving over to the white house, he would not focus on the $700 bill or the meeting, anything else. he seemed to be, mike barnicle, in the fog at a time. >> i find all of this, including -- >> depressing, isn't it? >> it's sad. it's more than depressing. it's sad, to see this guy's terrific career, you know, come perhaps to this conclusion. because the primary campaign in

arizona. is he is fearful of losing against j.d. hayworth. to say he was duped when an ordinary american would say where is the money going? what are toxic assets, plaexpla it to me? >> at the time, we called it a wall street bailout. it wasn't exactly a misery. somebody needs to ask sarah palin if she was misled. >> other conservatives say if you just say no to this and fight it and redraw it mort taylor's way, you can win the election. he wasn't focused at the time, and now he is claiming he was duped. frank paulson, since nobody else -- say what you will, but anybody who knows hank paulson knows he's a good, decent man with a remarkable background. hank paulson wasn't misleading anybody. he was telling everybody what

had to be done. he is the guy that had to go to george w. bush and say, you know, you may not want to call it a bailout, mr. president. i was against it, but i have to say, don't blame this on hank paulson. a good, decent man who did what was best at the time. >> what we saw from senator mccain is part of a bigger problem when i hear republicans say, let's just start over. it's better to start over. i don't believe it. i think they are just trying to kill it, i really do. >> you are correct, mika. >> a very compelling argument that mccain was making on "meet the press." let's just start over. i don't believe anybody. >> well, it is such a horrific bill in every way. >> well -- >> it is a terrible bill. >> joe -- >> there is nothing in it that you could get your arms around? nothing? >> no. because it doesn't contain costs. as politico said last week, he

pushed tax increases off to 2018 on these plans. no cost savings. it is -- he's paid off all the big special interests in washington, d.c. behind closed doors. it requires everybody to buy health insurance and there's nothing on the other side to contain those costs. >> so give the gop a month and tell them to come up with their plan. >> they have a plan. anybody that watched the summit the other day knows it's simple. start with tort reform, you save $54 billion. >> that's where you start? start with tort reform. i don't agree with that. >> let me finish, john. and then we'll go to you. you need to allow people to buy insurance cross state lines and don't tell me you can't do that. the third thing we need to do, end the antitrust exemptions. because right now they can price fix across state lines, and we

need to do what barack obama promises in the campaign. help us promise drugs. buy cheaper pharmaceutical drugs. that was killed when obama struck an $80 billion deal with big pharma. i could go on forever. there are good things you can do, and we have to reform health care insurance. but this is a miserable process and a miserable bill to boot. >> what about all of the people in pensacola who would get health care coverage from nancy pelosi and her tea party friends? >> nancy does have tea party friends. there is a lot of stuff in there. there's a much deeper way to get there. he is -- >> he's a maryland guy. i grew up with him. >> let me quickly -- >> i went to duke so i'm a big and smarter than you. >> he is from maryland and went to duke. that doesn't work for me, john. >> a lot of people looking at the president's performance at the health care summit last week. dana mill bank, obama needs to

plex his political muscle. but now, the world's most powerful man too often plays the 98 pound weakling. gets sands kicked in his face. that's what mr. tool did at the white house health care summit on thursday. for seven hours he racked up debating points as he perried attacks without so much as raising his voice. but the performance didn't exactly intimidate his foes. >> john harwood, this president can't win, can he? >> you know, the days are pretty long gone when you get your votes in congress by leaning into people like lyndon johnson. that's -- to me that's an archaic way of looking at washington. politics out in the open now. it's about persuasion, about information, and, you know, we'll see whether obama can succeed in pushing this across the finish line. the idea that he can go to people and say, listen, buddy. do it or you're in big trouble. there is a little mileage you can get, but not a lot.

>> how is his reputation on the hill right now, the president's? >> i think among democrats, there is still a pretty good reservoir of faith. republicans, plainly with the political circumstance they are in right now, they are not scared of him. >> all right. john harwood, thank you very much. when we come back -- >> nancy pelosi, very big on the red neck riviera. work is picking up in london ahead of the 2012 summer games. a preview of progress, next, on "morning joe." client's come in, they're anxious.

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wraps and seals hydration deep inside, improving skin's condition 2x more than eucerin original. heal on a deeper level. [ female announcer ] new moisture wrap body lotion. welcome back to "morning joe." sad to say good-bye to the vancouver games what are you laughing at? >> it looks like parents talking to a wayward child. >> who is the wayward child? >> willie. you got to go back to school. >> we're going to send him to boarding school and we're going to adopt another instead. don't miss out on the games. only 879 days away from the next olympics. london's prep is already well under way. >> olympic glory burns yet in vancouver.

those medals still warm in hands that clutch them. but 4,700 miles away, london is more than busy with the next olympic games. >> london will be ready. >> it's not easy to think summer sports during one of the worst winters here in a century. but everyone from the queen to man on the street -- >> so we can get charging through all of it, even though it's not the best for the country. we'll give it a go. >> is trying -- >> terrible. >> trying -- >> very exciting. >> to rekindle the thrill of victory back in 2005. >> proud to be british. >> well, times have changed. some corporate sponsor has to back out in this economy, while the budget to build these marvels and regenerate east london has nearly quadrupled to more than 9 billion pounds. there have been a few glitches. the olympic countdown clock that was 48 days fast.

or the what is that logo that everyone seems to love to hate. but the plans are glorious. five new venues, a javelin train traveling 130 miles per hour. all so far ahead of schedule. there will even be some sensible savings, hosting tennis at wimbledon, the triathlon at hyde park and beach volleyball, right here where these guys usually train. plenty to make the next olympians, like world champion diver at 15, tom daly or rebecca romero who won silver in rowing and gold in cycling in beijing very excited, even practicing in british rain and wind. >> the thick that got tingle down your spine is the opening ceremonies. >> when the film burns again it will be in this quirky city of

old and new. home to 200 nationalities. no matter the challenge or the weather. >> oh, coming up next, charlie rangel under pressure. will the congressman run for re-election amid an ethics firestorm? and we'll check in with savannah guthrie live at the white house. right here on "morning joe." hey!

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you know on a plane, you pay for first class. that's what america feels like. sometimes people don't have the money for first class. and you bump them. and you get an upgrade and sit next to the people. that's what republicans say. how the hell you going to sit next to me when you didn't buy the seat? the way they get through this on the plane is they give everybody a drink so you're not thinking about the guy sitting next to

you for free. and that's all i got. >> one way to look at it. chris rock's version. health care initiative. i'm mika brzezinski along with -- >> joe scarborough. what a day what a night last night. the olympics, hockey game. >> we put everything aside in the household. we were about to have dinner. sat down and watched this incredible -- it was overtime, right? sudden death. >> overtime. and mike barnicle, u.s. scores with a couple seconds left in regulation. that was just -- screams went up in my apartment building. what a moment. >> it could do for hockey -- it might be able to do for hockey what game six of the 1975 world series did for baseball at that point in time. i would hope so. because if the nhl played regular season games the way

olympic hockey was played, the nhl would double in popularity. >> reporter: were you glad that the canadians won? >> no. >> can anyone admit that? i thought it was okay that canadians won, i'll admit that. >> i wanted the united states to win. but let's just say that i was -- you know -- >> you were okay with it. >> i was happy for them after it was over. >> it could have been worse. >> and after i cleaned up the beer thrown on the wall. >> what about doc emerick, the nbc hockey announcer. maybe the best announcer for any sport of all the sports played. >> something about the olympics that draw you in. i was talking about curling before. i started watching that with my family the last couple of nights. doing it down on wall street. a lot of drama.

canada, blowing it in the women's gold. yesterday, i never watched cross-country skiing before in my life. watch an ending. they go 30 miles and the guy in the front is ahead for 30 miles, and -- >> the red guy. >> and the guy behind the entire time, the red guy from norway, he wins and then collapses on the ground and can't get up for a long time. >> it's a grueling sport. >> have you ever done that? >> yes. >> i did some on saturday in new york. skinny skis. i did. i do. >> nordic. >> i thought alpine, but whatever. >> a little message from the white house for you. we'll get to that. >> they like my -- are they e-mailing -- >> where is the scarf? >> is valerie sending me a fruit

basket? valerie sending a fruit basket? >> he needs to accessorize. >> i didn't want to see that. please don't. >> it's all about the accessories. >> sort of an ascot thing right here. >> lord scarborough. >> all right. >> i'll put it right over here. let me read what valerie says. >> i'll read it to you. time for a look at today's top stories. a desperate scene in chile after a massive 8.8 quake in chile. the country's military is deployed to try and keep a dangerous situation from growing even worse. police clashed with looters over the weekend as hundreds of people ransacked stores for food and supplies. secretary of state hillary clinton set to arrive in chile's capital tomorrow to meet with that country's leadership. nancy pelosi standing by new york congressman charlie rangel, under fire for violating house

ethics rules. members of both sides of the aisle are criticizing the 20-term democrat for accepting trips to the caribbean that was sponsored by corporations. he machines to run for a new term. nancy pelosi is waiting for the completion of the investigation. >> while it is a public admonishment, he did not knowingly violate house rules that gives him some comfort. what he has been admonished for is not good. a violation of the rule of the house. it was not a -- something that jeopardized our country in any way. so it remains to be seen what the rest of the work of the committee is, and i hope it will be soon. >> interesting. i hope it will be soon. what does soon mean? i think i heard that six months

ago. >> "the new york times" started reporting on this quite a long time ago. this is the beginning of more bad news for charlie rangel. nancy pelosi knows this guy has not behaved in a way that is ethical, is -- and he should not be running the most powerful committee in the house. and nancy's defense, he didn't know. mike barnicle this is sort of the mccain defense now. this guy has been longer than i've been living and in politics, and he claims he didn't know? and also nancy pelosi says it's not a threat to this country? >> that is some strange -- >> i heard that on some of the morning talk shows. it hasn't affected the nation in any way. of course it has. >> look at this poll, from cnn, talking about americans concerned about their federal g. has the federal government become so large and powerful that it poses an immediate

threat to citizens' rights? 56% say yes. 86% of americans in the same poll say they don't trust washington. there is a bigger disconnect between washington than ever before and the speaker of the house is saying the guy that writes tax laws breaking tax rules and a lot of other ethical violations is not a threat to this country? >> here it is for all of the boys and girls at home, charlie rangel, an enormously popular congressman from harlem. is he in charge of the committee that writes the tax codes. and guess what? you pay your taxes, but charlie rangel doesn't pay the same chair of taxes th share of taxes that you pay. the problem for nancy pelosi is that everyone knows this. people instinctively know this. that whatever is put on the table, nothing gets done at the end of the day.

>> why is she defending charlie rangel? a guy that doesn't pay the taxes the way he should, a guy that not only violates ethical standards in the house of representatives, but also doesn't report hundreds of thousands of dollars in income? >> taking care of their own. the old boy/old girl network. it's hard to turn out someone that you have worked with for decades. the threat to the country. i don't buy that. so he didn't get drunk when he had his finger on the nuclear button. that's fine. you can still go out and rob a bank, that's not a threat to the country, and you still shouldn't have your job. i say throw him out. >> charlie rangel, chair of ways and means committee is akin to being ceo of a large company. chief financial officer of a large company. what would happen to him if he

was at a large corporation? >> he would be tarred and feathered and would lose his job. >> what if he took a trip? would he be able to blame the secretary? it's unbelievable that charlie rangle is blaming his staff. >> that is without class. >> and that nancy pelosi is embracing that as a reason why charlie rangel -- >> and the knowing thing. he didn't knowingly violate any rules. that's the lamest excuse ever. >> nobody gets it. and neither side get it. and i mean this, i get extremists on both sides, but when republicans were controlling congress, think of all of the scandals that went down, one after another after another. and they just sat there and smiled and said nothing to see here, move along, move along, and they got thrown out. and now democrats are doing the same thing. both parties are broke. >> yeah, that's what i think we

have this log jam right now over one of the key issues facing our country, or one we should be moving on so we can focus on jobs. democrats move to push through the legislation on health care without republican support. nancy pelosi believes democrats will be able to gather the votes. but she says that the senate must move first. >> we zero in on what the policy will be and that's what we'll be doing following the president's summit yesterday. secondly, we'll see what the senate can do. what is the substance? what is the senate prepared to do? and we'll go to the third step as to what my members will vote for. >> that strategy, however, appears at odds with a plan laid out by representative steny hoyer and her party's own

ledder. >> some in the house are reluctant to go before the senate goes. are you willing to go first, and don't you have to? >> whether we're willing or not, we have to, if we want to correct some of the things that the house agrees on so we can effect change. the house will have to move on some sort of corrections or reconciliation bill. >> all right. so i think they -- >> confused. >> they didn't talk. is it the house or the senate? >> do you think it's time for the daily white house e-mail. >> here is the question. please ask joe -- >> hold on. >> ready? you were blah, blah, blah about this last hour. >> should i wear my scarf? >> please ask joe why the insurance companies are spending millions of dollars lobbying against a bill they are in favor of? >> are they? >> well -- >> i remember in 1993/1994, they had the harry and louise ads.

i don't understand it, i don't understand it, i don't understand it. i haven't seen an insurance ad yet. >> no. i have talked to insurance executives and they say they want to stay a million miles out of public view in this. they also say no one is really talking to them. the white house isn't talking to them. >> interesting. >> they are just out. and -- >> i talked to the ceo at a reception in new york, mike barnicle, of a big health care -- one of the top health insurance -- i asked him about it, and he said, you know -- he sounded a lot closer to the white house than me. you can't buy across state lines and we need the antitrust exemption and this bill isn't that bad. so maybe they are spending millions of dollars, but whoever is spending that money is not getting in front of the public, because i think that quietly they want everybody to have to buy their health insurance. >> my observation of all of this

is this. had the white house spent as much time demonizing the health insurance industry as it did demonizing the big banks last year, this bill would be law today. people hate their health carriers. banks at least provide you with the convenience of atms and car loans. their health carriers, you always confront an obstacle. they make billions off of us. the rate of return, in terms of what we get as customers compared to what they take as companies obscene. >> they do make a lot of money. mika, going back to the question from the white house -- >> which is a good one. >> if they are spending millions of dollars, they are spending it in ways we are not seeing. >> lobbying. >> lobbying in ways we haven't seen. i would love the fact that a lot of others are saying that this

plan forces americans to buy health insurance without real competition against them. >> do you think it could be completely scrapped like republicans are saying? start over again? >> you say start over again -- >> is that reasonable? that is killing it, right? >> it's not that hard to put together a bill that could get 70 votes. >> if we don't, it will be a lot worse five years from now. i guarantee you that. our system will be more expensive and more cumbersome. >> what is incomprehensible to me? you can see the beginnings of bankruptcy of state after state after state due to health care. you can see the beginning of bankruptcy at the federal level. my problem with starting all over again is that there is such a preponderance of cowardice in washington, i don't see either side coming together. >> remember politico, talked about that story of how they

this pushed some of the cost-saving devices to 28, because they don't want to offend unions. even if he gets re-elected, he'll be out of office for a couple of years before cost savings begins. you tell trial lawyers, we know we can save $54 billion for americans, but we don't want to offend you. and big pharma, we can start pushing the cheap importation of drugs from other countries. but they struck a deal with big pharma. you go bit by bit by bit through this bill and it's not really reform at all. >> we'll talk about that, coming up. we'll bring savannah guthrie into the conversation with "the daily rundown." and senate majority whip dick

durbin. democrats turn reconciliation -- turn to it to pass health care. and could that backfire. first a quick check at the forecast. >> i want to get you set for the day as far as chances for travel issues, in a few areas of the east coast. nothing too major. light snow early this morning, switching to light rain. 37 degrees right now. really windy right now. and some of the snow on the radar, pushing out to the eastern reaches of cape cod. dealing with rain and low cloud ceilings. and enough to slow down flights. temperatures up and down the east coast with cold numbers. charlotte, north carolina, starting off in the upper 20s. and there is a look at this afternoon. a chance of showers around boston. nearly 40 this afternoon and chicago, 34, a few light rainshowers, heading toward dallas, near houston, you will see a chance of rainshowers, new orleans, later on this

afternoon. beautiful in the southeast for now. coming up, we'll have more. for now, are you watching "morning joe," brewed by starbucks. so how long does it take a fresh vegetable

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during thursday he's's health care summit there, was a tense moment when president obama said that the election is over to john mccain. and john mccain says i'm reminded of that every day. just one of the many things that he needs to be reminded of every day. >> i guess he needs to be reminded that everyone in america knew that the bailout was a bailout when he voted for it. by suggesting that hank paulson duped him. >> hank paulson played a trick

on him. >> we were talking, andy, you're a money guy. this story about the new cbs and abc -- mika has a lot of friends at both places, undergoing massive cuts. but the positive story here is nbc. andy -- >> that's partly because of this network, msnbc. i know we're on air, but on an nbc-owned network, so it's a little awkward. the point is, nbc started msnbc so you have the same number of employees, two networks, essentially. news here and another network. it brings in more money, more profitable than what is going on at cbs or nbc. >> mike barnicle, you've been here for a while. we underwent massive cuts a couple of years ago. nbc was a couple years ahead of these other networks. massive cuts. when you cut your staff by 75%.

but like our show, zucker called our show like the future. we have like eight, nine staff members. >> but they are wicked smart. >> they are wicked smart. and our competitors have 40 or 50. but we've -- we've cut the number of staff. but if you still produce the content, you can make some money. >> that's the race. >> our ratings have skyrocketed since we've started. >> the segue. the natural segue here is if the federal government can pay attention to what private industry does, this case, msnbc, there are massive cuts. people get hurt -- when you lose your job, you lose your income. the product is better than ever, more efficient than ever. the government -- never thought i would say this, is way too big. >> exactly. >> listen to you. >> and think about the cuts we've had at nbc. this isn't an advertising this is just talking. you're exactly right. even after the massive cuts two

years ago. brian williams, sometimes he's getting over 10 million. beating everybody by a long shot. the "today" show, i think they have been number one since 1824, and, again, that's with all of their cuts. still able to put in good products. >> and they've blended the online component really well and that's what other networks are struggling with. >> one thing we haven't been able to figure out. >> hmm? >> whether we can sustain this despite savannah guthrie works for us. >> joe, i am a living and breathing example of this. i have two jobs. chuck and i, we do two jobs. yeah. >> you are a living and breathing example. why don't you tell them that your salary, you get ramen noodles, all you want. >> and company script. yeah. chuck and i like to think we're the future. we do the msnbc show, cover the

white house. >> or your i had yodiots. >> you are the future. do you 18 different jobs for the price of half of one. welcome to nbc. >> yeah. >> so let's talk about a lot of things going on this weekend. let's talk about the health care bill. they had their bipartisan summit. peace did not break out. talk about the white house plans to move forward. i understand staff members telling "the times," they've got the votes. >> if the vote were held today, i'm not sure that's the case. but they believe if it comes to a vote, particularly in the house, they will have the votes and that's speaker pelosi's pattern. she doesn't bring something to the floor unless she has it. they will bring it to the floor wednesday, the path forward. the house has to go first. it has to pass the senate bill that passes 60 votes before

christmas, and the senate would do the section step and pass what the white house would consider a narrow set of fixes that would make it acceptable to house members that walked the plank. fix that by a reconciliation, the simple majority vote and the president would have a bill to sign. it's not at all certain. this is the only path forward. the question is whether the house will have the votes to pass the senate bill as is. >> how many times will house members be forced to walk the plank, only to find senators are not going to follow through? >> this is a real problem. this isn't new. and you certainly are well aware of this, but the trust problem between the house and senate seems to be at a real high. you even kind of can see the anguish for speaker pelosi to acknowledge this is the only way for a long time. democrats are stuck on the mud of who has to go first. speaker pelosi thought there is

surely some way the senate can do the reconciliation fixes first. and then the house who passed the senate bill. frankly, i don't think she trusted the senate to get it done. as a matter of procedure, everyone really agrees now, including speaker pelosi that the house is going to have to go first. so much bad blood. she had her members take a series of difficult votes. that was last year. we are getting closer and closer to election day this is a tough and bitter pill for the house to have to swallow. >> savannah, basketball is the president's favorite game. basketball comes with a shot clock. let me ask you about the political shot clock that is ticking down right now. how much longer can they afford to go on talking about the health care bill, when state after state are on the verge of bankruptcy? more people are unemployed. unemployment rising in many areas of the country and people

wondering what's going on in washington? they are talking about health care, i haven't worked in eight months? >> a lot of folks would say that that shot clock expired. expired before christmas. the latest thinking you're hearing is probably around easter the president would have a bill to sign. even if they started this process tomorrow, the whole reconciliation process would take time. likely republicans would offer a series of amendments, and no one want to get this behind them more than the white house, more than democrats. the president laid out a six-week time frame for this. over on the hill, the senate majority leader's office was saying that might be his time line, but we want to get it done sooner. everyone recognizes the longer this goes on, not only is it harder to do, but it just sort of -- the plot thickens for democrats. it makes it tougher for americans to focus on jobs. it's the issue on most people's mind.

>> andy serwer has a short question. >> do you think either side wants to get this done at this point? or people would rather see this thing die? >> be lrepublicans say let's st over and i think they support a series of fixes. but in terms of the big, comprehensive health care bill, no question, they want to see that die a death as fast as possible. democrats, i'm not so sure. some would probably say i can't believe we have to resurrect this issue. all right, we didn't succeed. let's move forward. other democrats say we already voted. we all already voted for a big health care bill. we'll get clobbered with it by our opponents come fall. at least we'd have something to show for it if we can get health care passed. >> we have a quote from "the new york times" about you. but you said republicans want to see the health care bill die a death as quickly as possible.

one of the things that makes us feel so uncomfortable about "the daily rundown" is that's what chuck todd says about you all the time. >> there it is. >> the tension is awful. and also "the times" talking about what you do. >> it says more journalists will become jacks of all trades. >> oh, yeah. i can make a mean omelet too. it's crazy. >> you will be asked to about ten minutes after "the daily rundown." >> she's going to work in the commisary for nbc. be careful about the menu for black history month. thank you, savannah. we can't wait. remember, "the daily rundown "starts every day precisely at 9:00 and 17 seconds. >> coming up, john mccain says he was duped. >> doh!

>> a moment that unfolded yesterday on "meet the press." we'll show it to you. in a few minutes, senate majority whip dick durbin will be with us. keep it right here on "morning joe," brewed by starbucks. there's a home by the sea powered by the wind on the plains. there's a hospital where technology has a healing touch. there's a factory giving old industries new life. and there's a train that got a whole city moving again. somewhere in america, the toughest questions are answered every day. because somewhere in america, more than sixty thousand people spend every day answering them. siemens. answers.

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time for a look at today's top stories. officials in chile say 2 million people are displaced following saturday's 8.8 earthquake. a desperate search continues as rescue teams reach towns damaged. the number will almost certainly rise. and senator john mccain says the former treasury secretary misled him to supporting the bank bailout. >> never saw it coming. something called a bank bailout actually bailed out banks? >> he said henry paulson told him the $700 billion rescue package would focus on the mortgage meltdown, and not on wall street. >> what -- >> you say you were misled by former treasury secretary paulson. >> we were all misled. he said they were going after the toxic assets. the toxic asset was the housing

market. he testified to that. we were all misled. what did he do then? started pumping money into the financial institutions. now the financial institutions are fine. wall street is doing great. main street is in deep trouble. >> mika, who did he think was holding the toxic assets? pottery barn and sears? >> bed, bath, & beyond. >> he thought the money was going to bed bath & beyond. not banks. who would think they had the toxic assets. >> go figure. >> that worried aboy ed abouied hayworth? >> must be. an attorney for former enron ceo jeffrey skilling will address the supreme court. skilling is serving a 24-year prison sentence. his attorney says that the

statute used to convict him was unconstitutionally vague. i'm going to use that one too. i was duped into this contract. >> exactly. >> something like that, right? >> we all we're. let's get out of here. where is the future of health care headed? we'll speak with someone who can tell us, hopefully. majority whip dick durbin. hello, hello. client's come in, they're anxious. scared. they don't know where to begin. so we start to talk about what have they done and what are their goals. and then we plan. it's a very good feeling as an advisor to work with people and help get them to their goals.

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it would be a political kamikaze mission if the

democrats jammed this through after the american people were saying we are telling you every way we know how we don't want this bill. >> that was majority whip, senator dick durbin. senator, by coincidence, by happy coincidence for us, you came in to congress in 198 2, the same year john mccain came in. i'm not really good in math, but that works out to be about 28 years, 26 years when he was running. he'd been in washington for more than a quarter century. what do you think about john mccain saying he was fooled to supporting a $700 billion bank bailout bill? >> help us. >> it's hard to understand how john mccain could have been brainwashed by hank paulson. >> i just don't see it. >> the bottom line is, whether we're buying toxic assetsor sfr

straightening up the balance sheets, we were helping big banks or big insurance companies. we knew what that was all about. they started out with a little different tact with the toxic assets. but at the end of the day, it was helping big banks. >> was it possible he was misled? >> hank paulson, a genuinely decent man. >> very much so. >> do you think he lied to john mccain? >> they did start off on one tack and move to another. we knew ultimately money was flowing out of treasury to financial institutions. >> when you say paulson came in and started off on a different tack, toxic assets. who did you think held the toxic assets, jimmy's variety store? >> it certainly wasn't jimmy john's subway store. we knew it was the big banks. >> there was a debate at that point whether the money should go directly to american homeowners, a mechanism to do that, whether it was appropriate

and we had the big discussion. i remember very public, about how the money could go about the banks and the insurance companies. whether or not you agree with this. it could be amplified throughout the economy. that was a public debate. to say you were ignore ant of that discussion, is disingenuous. >> sure, they move the money around, but we had people like john chatig coming on saying that it was too vague. all of these things were debated in real time. but john mccain is scared of j.d. hayworth. >> he has a primary, and i'm not going to try and get into mccain's head and see what he knew or not. they wanted hundreds of billions of dollars, and we said no. we wanted it spelled out. >> give us hundreds of millions of dollars or you die -- the economy dies.

>> that was basically it. >> you guys are doubling down. the democratic house seems to be doubling down. is this the type of bill that you push through with something like reconciliation? >> it can be. you remember the newt gingrich contract with america? reconciliation this was supposed to remake the american scene. >> the bush tax cuts. reconciliation. >> reconciliation. we have used this process for big ideas in the past. it can be used this time. the first stop is the house of representatives and nancy pelosi has a tough job. you say to yourself, well, should the house democrats trust the senate? well, where would you look for any evidence that they can trust us? they have sent us 300 bills, which have been held in the senate, mostly by one senator. over 100 cloiture votes last

year. currently in the middle of a threat of a filibuster from jim bunting whether we're extending unemployment benefits. in my state it means 15,000 people in my state woke up with health care and unemployment benefits cut because of the objection of one republican senator. >> help us out on the spending part. bunting is saying how are we going to pay for this? the president supports pay, go now. should we figure out how to pay for this? >> i think this is as much of an emergency as of a flood or drought or fire in an area and we need to move in. i met with a couple unemployed folks in chicago yesterday. a year and a half looking for a job? genuinely looking for jobs? with good work records. people are desperate. >> republicans have done this in the past. we support pay go.

nancy says in '06. we're going to have pay go. and everything is an emergency. if at some point we're for pay go, we have to be for pay go. >> republicans voted against pay go last time. if you are serious about the deficit, why did vote for the medicare prescription drug benefit, not paid for? why did you vote to continue -- >> $7 trillion burden to medicare not paid for. $7 trillion. >> and two wars, not paid for. and you say to yourself, the priorities, obviously when it comes to poor people in america, it just isn't fair to pull the rug out from under them. >> how do we bring order as we move forward to these issues, issues on senate reconciliation, cloture, filibustering.

i'm an artist, a songwriter, but it's too erratic for me. how do we bring order? for this type of bill, you need 50 votes. for this type of wibill, you ne 60? >> people don't like this sort of stuff. why is a majority not a majority? simple question. >> if mitch mcconnell needs only 51 votes, that's all he needs. >> it's a tough call. the senate has historically been different. this is the institution that saved the constitution. every state gets two senators, the small states get the same as the large. you won't lose your power, and the rules reflected it. >> it rounds off the extremes in both sides. >> and historically, used sparingly and now it's out of control. >> how do you fix it? >> you can fix it with the rules change. not likely. takes 67 votes. you can fix it with a nuclear

option. considered when it came to judicial nominees. could be considered again. that is not likely. or fix it if enough people say this just isn't working. we're not doing our job. >> how is it -- and maybe you can't answer this. you probably can't. how do you get to the united states senate. not you individually. but a collection of united states senators and manage to get so far moved from reality of people's every day lives, that you seem not to understand as a group what it means not to have a job. seeing the kids go off to school and you're at home without the job, that you have no health care, that you know if you take your child to the emergency room, you're bankrupt. how do you get so far removed from the reality of people's every day lives? >> it's hard to say. people in different walks of life, they get to the point where there are one of the feature shows where the ceo of the companies and embedding themselves inside the company to see what it's like to friday a

hamburger. >> get in touch. >> or move trash around. people get out of touch. it happens. >> speaking of so far removed, without equivocating, what is your position on charlie rangel and when will we know if he did or did not officially break any type of ethical rules. >> we already know that. >> we do know, but apparently there is an investigation that nancy pelosi is waiting on. >> the questions have to be asked and answered. no doubt about that. and they will be in due time. and he will have to face the consequences, whatever they are. >> you served with charlie. i served with charlie. i like charlie very much. are you disappointed, though? >> i am disappointed. one thing about charlie rangel, when he joined the army after world war ii as an african-american, he was put in a segregated unit. served in combat in korea.

this man has served his country. i'm not going to presume guilt when it comes to charlie rangel. let the investigation be complete. he has made a life of public service, and he is entitled to due process under the highest rules. >> at the same time, though, and we certainly salute his service to this country. have you ever forgotten to report $500,000 on a congressional -- >> shouldn't we be worried about that? >> i think the answer is no. >> he just said no with a smile on his face. and i was explaining to these guys, if you go on a trip, you know who is paying for that trip, don't you? >> do you ever go on trips when you don't know who is paying for it? >> no. >> are you sure? >> yeah. >> that's the thing. you don't walk out of your office door until you know everything about that trip, because these things will always blow up in your face. >> forget one thing. >> charlie was duped. >> he was duped, by his staff.

>> it was hank paulson. >> oh, by his staff. >> this was great. great seeing you again. >> we watch watch you in the se gym in the morning. you are the consensus choice. i will tell you what the opposite choice is. this is a consensus choice. >> jim close, right? >> right. >> coming up, shows have resumed at seaworld just days after a trainer was killed. what changes are now in place to ensure that doesn't ever happen again. a full report from florida when we come back. you're watching "morning joe," brewed by starbucks. let's hear it for saving on the good stuff. like i can't believe it's not butter. people who spent $100 a week at leading national supermarkets... on frequently purchased groceries... could have saved $55 in one month by shopping at walmart. save money. live better. walmart.

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welcome back to "morning joe." hundreds turned out in chicago yesterday to pay their respects to veteran seaworld trainer dawn brancheau killed less than a week ago by a 12,000-pound killer whale during their popular show. the funeral is later today. and now seaworld is saying the show must go on. >> reporter: during the first shamu show since the death of dawn brancheau, tears for the veteran trainer killed by a killer whale. >> i just want her to be here for this show, to make sure that this continues. it's so special. it touched so many lives and i

don't think there was a dry eye in the stands. >> reporter: the show took place just three days after brancheau's death. seaworld's curator says this needed to happen. >> we all were expecting to have a difficult time, but, actually, this show inspired me again. it really, really made me think about why we do what we do. >> reporter: how they do it has changed. trainers are no longer allowed in the water with the whales. they maintained a safe distance during this weekend's show. >> we're not getting in the water with these animals. we will not get in the water with the whales and we won't until we kind of conclude our work and determine if there's anything to learn from here. >> reporter: the new precaution comes after tilikum, the largest killer whale in captivity, grabbed brancheau by her ponytail and dragged her under water. >> it was not an attack. he had a novel object pregnasen to him, that ponytail in front of his face, he grabbed her hair

and pulled her in. >> reporter: these animals are one if not the biggest money makers for seaworld, a national for-profit business. and they take center stage in marketing seaworld's brand. it's estimated that an orca is worth $2 million, and because of tilikum's breeding capabilities, the 12,000-pounder is reportedly worth millions more. >> go, willy, go! >> reporter: but just in the movie like "free willy," some activists are demanding seaworld free tilly. the killer whale who started free willy died roughly a year after his release. and tilikum will stay here at seaworld and will be featured in future shows, just exactly when, they're not saying, mika. >> all right, thanh, thank you very much. a lot of questions about how this happened. i know someone very well who was very good friends with this woman and said she was amazing and would want the show to go on

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way to the corner, crosby up with it there, to long, to

jerome again. crosby scores! it's over! the gold medal to canada! >> welcome back the "morning joe." joe scarborough and mika brzezinski with you, along with mike barnicle. "fortune" magazine's andy sower, and carl bernstein. i thought canada did a superb job with the olympics. while i was rooting for america, i'm glad they finished with a big streak of gold medals the last couple of days. quite a couple weeks for that country. >> that hockey match was amazing. >> wasn't it? >> we stopped what we were doing and just focused in on this sudden death overtime. it was something. we're hockey fans in our house. and my dad grew up in canada, at least went to college there, after he left poland. so we were rooting for both -- >> he was rooting for canada, you think?

>> i don't know about my father. i'm just saying i wasn't devastated. >> mika never cheers for america. >> that's an indictment. >> if you love hockey, mike barnicle, what a game yesterday. >> spectacular hockey game. it might be able to do for hockey what game six of the 1975 of the world series did for major league baseball in the sense that it was a terrific game, brought a lot of people's eyeballs to the ice. if the national hockey league games were played the way the olympic games were played, i think the nhl would double in popularity. >> great announcer yesterday. >> doc elmerette. he is the best i've ever heard. >> i was on an airplane, i had to see it in not realtime, but it was fabulously exciting even in not realtime. >> and ryan miller, what a remarkable goalie. >> he was hot. >> you raise the right point. look at the difference between professional hockey and this

game. with one is crash and burn and the other is sport. >> i think i'm going to have to start catching some ranger games around here. >> i like playing hockey. >> not that i really know anything. >> also, mika, a couple other things. of course, i admitted i had a bit of a curling addiction this past weekend. >> i wish you would stop saying that. >> you have a curling fetish. >> there was another sport yesterday, i've got to show this again. and we're only catching the last minute of this. if you saw the last three or four minutes, remarkable. cross-country skiing, 30 miles, and this guy from norway, nordic, comes in at the end and wins in a photo finish. i don't know that i've ever seen a final push. this guy was far behind. >> he is spent. >> after 30 miles to do that. i can't go 30 feet -- >> that's what i look like when i cross-country ski a mile, which we've been doing out in

the country. we've had so much snow. we've been going out every weekend and cross-country skiing. but i look like that after about eight minutes, nine minutes. >> when i walk to get some coffee, i look like that. >> he collapses and -- don't take lipitor. >> there's always a pill for something. >> this is america. >> exactly. >> mika, is there a pill for news? >> yes, there is. >> newspapers, but there aren't many left. >> that's right. that's very sad. time now for a look at some of today's top stories. we begin the chile, which will begin accepting international aid as the country continues its search and rescue efforts following saturday's massive earthquake. officials say the magnitude 8.8 quake killed more than 700 people, with that number expected to rise. the country's military has now deployed to try to keep a dangerous situation from growing even worse. police clashed with looters over the weekend as hundreds of people ran sacked stores for food and supplies.

secretary of state hillary clinton is set to arrive in chile's capital tomorrow to meet with that country's leadership. house speaker nancy pelosi is standing by new york congressman charlie rangel is who is under fire for violating house ethics rules. members from both sides of the aisle are criticizing the 20-term democrat for accepting trips to the caribbean who were sponsored by corporations. pelosi says she is waiting for a full investigation before deciding whether to keep rangel as chairman of the house ways and means committee. >> well, it is a public odd monoishment. it's that he did not knowingly violate house rules. that gives him some comfort. what mr. rangel has been admonished for is not good, it was a violation of the a rule of the house. it was not something that jeopardized our country in any way. so it remains to be seen what the rest of the work of the committee is, and i hope it will be soon. >> the house speaker, meanwhile, is plotting her -- how long will

this take? this investigation? i'm just curious. how much longer? >> due process. due process. >> i'm not sure. there's one more report to come that has to do with this situation here in new york. the interesting thing about this, though, is that charlie rangel got on the wrong side of the line. you tell me how many members of congress have also taken similar trips on the other side of the line that are still in there. but he did it and there ought to be some action. >> you know, it's interesting, though, because dick durbin was sitting here and i asked dick this question. because you just know -- okay, it's kind of like before you print a story, you know you need two sources. so if you've got one source you're not really sure about and you run with the story again, if you get in trouble, you know you deserve it. >> this is a stick in the eye. >> the investigation is over, i said, dick, when's the last time you ever went on a trip without

knowing everything -- and you always know everything that's going on before you leave the door, because you know if you don't, this sort of thing comes up. he's been there for 40 years, right? >> comes back and bites you. >> he's blaming his staff. john mccain's blaming -- john mccain's blaming hank paulson for being duped. this is what people -- are dejected about washington. >> that's why i'm doing a movie on congress. well, you really get to -- you were talking with dick durbin about out of touch. if there were any american company that were this out of touch with an average age in the senate, say, of 63 years for a member, 57 in the house, if there were any other institution, they would close the door on it. that would be it. it would be gone. so we've got to start asking ourselves some basic questions. maybe we do need a constitutional convention. maybe we do need some radical action. maybe most of those people in the house and the senate ought to go. maybe we need four-year house

terms. and what we really need is campaign finance publicly -- public finance campaigns, because money is running our system. it has ruined our system. this rangel thing is about money. look, look what happens. it costs you $100 million to run for the senate in a big state. that means that for every day of a six-year term, you've got to raise, $6,500 a day. >> and this president, when he ran, reraised $560 million, and they say he's going to raise over $1 billion this time. we say, why is he striking deals with big pharma, why is he striking deals with big hospitals, why won't he cross trial lawyers? it's money, isn't it? >> you talk to anybody who's ever run in a large state or is up for re-election in a large state and ask them about the percentage of time they spend on

the phone every single day raising money -- >> that's what they do. >> it's obscene. it's obscene. you send them there to vote up or down on a health care bill or up or down on a jobs bill, yet they spend the preponderance of their time trying to raise money. >> one point about charlie rangel, and it was raised by senator durbin, which i personally happen to find horribly annoying. it is this. part of his defense is premised on the fact that 40 years ago, charlie rangel joined the army and fought in the korean war. admirable. >> charlie doesn't make that defense, though. >> i know. but it's admirable and it's something that he did that can never be taken from him and it is an admirable thing that he did. there are a lot of people who served in the armed forces of the united states in many wars as well as in peacetime and they know they don't have two sets of rules on april 15th. >> they pay their taxes. >> the truth is, charlie rangel has been in many ways, a terrific congressman, especially

for the people h e serve, but he's playing by rules that went gone, even in this corrupt congressional system that we have, and it is really corrupt, he's playing by rules from 15 years ago. >> by the way, mika, a couple of things. term limits would help. >> yeah. >> also, you look at the fact that we cut up our districts in such a way that it elected extremes. it just does. >> only 50 seats to jerry moundering. >> you can go on with the news. there are some reforms that can be enacted that would make a huge difference. >> but the problems we're talking about could be part of the reason that we're getting nowhere. >> also, looking with our president has been confounded by the washington system and by the congress of the united states. and if he is being defeated, it is because he has failed to meet this business as usual way of

operating in washington, even though we ran against it. >> i think he's doing pretty damned well, business as usual, making deals with as many people he's made deals with on health care. i think that's why he's having a problem. >> well, he didn't get into it -- that's another subject. the house speaker, meanwhile, is plotting her strategy on health care, as democrats move to push through the legislation without republican support. both speaker pelosi and a top white house adviser believe democrats will be able to gather the necessary votes, but pelosi says the senate must act first. >> first, we zero in on what the policy will be. and that is what we'll be doing, following the president's summit yesterday. secondly, we'll see what the senate can do. what is the substance, what is the senate prepared to do? and then we'll go to the third step, as to what my members will vote for. >> senate first. although, that strategy

apparently at odds with a plan laid out by representative steny hoyer. >> senators say the house has to go first, some in the house are reluctant to go before the senate goes. are you, number one, willing to go first? and don't you have to? >> whether we're willing or not, we have to go first if we're going to correct some of the things that the house disagrees with -- not correct -- change, so we can reach agreement. the house will have to move first on some sort of corrections or reconciliation bill. >> wait. >> i'm confused. >> help me. >> because they worked together. >> he's her deputy. >> right. >> steny hoyer -- he's a republican, right? >> no, he's a democrat. >> he's a democrat from maryland. the number two guy. >> directly behind nancy pelosi. >> it always makes me uncomfortable when you have these people fighting. they actually should have more -- >> are they fighting? >> they're strategizing. part of the problem is they've got to get the strategy straight

with the white house. and there has not been a united strategy yet. they're still working on it. and they know what they got to do. but the real thing is, theed idea that you have this one party with majorities of the size of both the house and the senate, they have each passed a bill and if they cannot get this through, it is a disgrace for the party. >> wow. >> well, it is. it's a disgrace. >> the bar's been at 60. now they've lowered it to 50. and i cannot believe -- we were just talking to dick durbin and going to talk to him on radio, but you keep asking the question, well, how do you get to 50. are you at 50? and they still don't know. >> they're not sure. >> which is stunning to me, mike. they've got a 79-vote majority in the house. they've got 59 senators in the u.s. senate caucusing with the democrats. mike, this is -- it's not quite what lbj had, but it's nearly historic. and they're having trouble

getting anything done. >> let me ask you a question. you more than anyone here know that i bring limited intelligence to this program. >> i think we both do. >> i'm good on that too. >> and you are my resident congressional scholar. it doesn't seem that long ago to me that president george w. bush with majorities that didn't even approach what nancy pelosi and barack obama have right now passed tax cuts, passed a war, passed several other things -- >> two wars. >> with nowhere near -- >> how did he do it? >> no child left behind. another one he passed. >> without nearly what barack obama has. he passed no child left behind, the most sweeping education reform. i was against it, but he passed it. >> you were right. >> with ted kennedy. he passed two tax cuts. he got two wars supported. he passed a $7 trillion drug benefit plan. >> how is that? >> and here -- let me give you

the most stunning example of what he did. with an "l.a. times" poll showing that 79% of americans opposed the surge, george w. bush passed through nancy pelosi's house of representatives and harry reid's senate a surge. george bush got things done -- >> so does -- how does that happen? >> i can't say. because i say and people get mad at me. and i just want people to love me, mika. >> he's not a strong leader! listen. he has not -- hold on a second. this first year, i've said it, so let me -- this first year he has not acted like a strong leader. with all do respect to john harwood, you know what, lbj tactics still work. if i were president of the united states and had carried connecticut with 65%, 66% of the vote and joe lieberman was standing in my way of comprehensive health care

reform, i would not hold town hall meetings across america. we started saying this last july, by the way. i would call joe lieberman and others in my office and say, joe, okay, i'm not good with math, but i get 65%, 66% in your state of connecticut, they like me up there, joe. and i'll tell you what, you can keep voting against this or we can strike a deal. tell me what you need and i'll give it to you, but if you stop health care, i'm going up to your state and i'm going to grind your political bones to dust. and if you don't believe me, look over your shoulder. you're going to see me in connecticut every week. you're going to see my people up there. we're going to primary you, we're going to pour hundreds of -- >> he's scary. >> no! listen, that's how you do it! >> can we come back to this. >> i think it's a point well taken. i agree with you. the proof is in the pudding. >> we've got to go one step further too. he's trying to let me finish this. >> good. >> there's one more part of it

too, mika. that is that this president has been too disconnected. he got olympia snowe from the hill to vote him on the jobs bill. do you know why she did? >> why? >> because he called her up and asked her to. >> he spent more time with her on the phone than -- >> i know that sounds silly, but the presidents that work are the presidents that know how to work the hill either through fear or through love or a combination of both. and this white house has not figured out -- forget the republicans! they haven't figured out how to deal with democrats. >> he has not dealt strongly with his own party. he has not dealt strongly with the washington system. he ran against it and it is costing him. it's also costing him with his banking people. same thing. with the stimulus bill. he could have got more and he should have got more. he has not taken on the institution that he came out of and that he wanted out of, because he knew it didn't work.

>> i've got to say, professors don't do well running washington. i know firsthand newt gingrich and dick armey were great in the minority, they were great when they were running, you know, this sort of rebellion against washington and they got in there and we ran a pretty sloppy house. >> i wouldn't give up on them yet. >> i wouldn't either. >> i think this president's having the same problem right now. >> he's up against it, no question. coming up -- we'll continue this conversation -- is reconciliation a dirty word? why democrats are rebranding the term. will it help push a health care bill through congress? plus, breaking news involving senator blanche lincoln's re-election effort. it's all next in the politico playbook. and "law & order" returns tonight with two new episodes. we'll talk to one of the stars of the nbc drama, anthony anderson. you're watching "morning joe," brewed by starbucks. [ children laughing ] look in the glove box.

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will you be supporting andrew cuomo now? >> i haven't figured out who's going to get the kiss of death yet, but if andrew cuomo wants albany, he can take it. those upstate goblins are going to tear that guy apart and use his blood for their cave paintings. andrew, if you're in albany, i can recommend a great place to go for dinner. it's called manhattan. >> time now to take a look at the morning papers. >> it's too easy. stop it. "wall street journal," quake toll in chile rises, more than 700 dead as looting breaks out in the country's hard-hit

southern region. and the "l.a. times," the gop's middle fighting for ground. a small band of republican moderates in the senate are in a good position to win senate seats in november. several of them, including scott brown, joined with democrats to block a filibuster on a jobs bill last week. a watershed moment for this republican faction. which, mika, "the times" is right, probably is going to be growing with mike castle in delaware and some other moderates winning across the country. >> "new york times," the white house rethinking its nuclear policy as part of a broad new strategy for the united states. president obama will permanently reduce america's arsenal by thousands of weapons. >> and "the washington post," record haul for u.s. americans finished vancouver with an all-time high of 37 medals, though the canadians led in the gold medal count. >> "vancouver sun," a heartstoping overtime win gives canada the most gold medals informer a winter games. the front page photo shows fireworks during the closing

ceremony in vancouver. >> isn't that beautiful? >> beautiful. that was nice. >> i love canada. is that a sin? >> no, actually. i love canada too. with us now, chief political correspondent for politico, mike allen. >> i won't admit to loving france on air. >> you won't? >> no, but i love france. >> i know you do. just don't speak french. it's no good. it's like my father's french, terrible. it's, well, canadian. mike, who's here with the morning playbook. senators russ feingold and blanche lincoln joining the list of democratic incumbents who could face tough elections in 2010. who are they up against? >> well, in wisconsin, senator feingold's case, an old familiar name, tommy thompson was the wisconsin governor, was secretary of health and human services under president bush. he's looking seriously at it and has raised some money. blanche lincoln, democrat of arkansas, this is a bombshell. and it's a sign of the times

that canada made big news by announcing it in a video to his supporters this morning. in arkansas, the lieutenant governor, bill halter, a democrat, is challenging democratic u.s. senator blanche lincoln. this is now three u.s. senate democratic incumbents who have challenging in their own party. usually incumbents get left alone. also senator bennett in colorado and, of course, senator sprecto up in pennsylvania. >> i just got an e-mail from steve hillebrand. of course, he worked iowa for barack obama. and he said, actually, this is a great example of how health care is being used as a positive for a primary challenger. and you scroll down and right now, there are four progressive organizations that are going to raise halter $500,000 this week because he is going to support barack obama's health care plan. it's getting fascinating out there. a lot of cross currents. >> yeah, but wait a second. yes, it will raise money, but why is senator lincoln in trouble? she was a clear favorite.

she's in trouble because of health care. she got in trouble with the right for voting for it and she got in trouble with the left for helping to scuttle it. so now she's losing thanks to the efforts of steve and his friend, she's going the lose her one big advantage she had left. she's way down, but her advantage was she had $5 million. now she's going to have to spend a bunch of it -- >> but i'll tell you what, though, politically, mike, this is just my own -- i ran against a guy in '94 who said he was against clinton's health care plan and then i got him to say he was against clinton's tax increases, then i got him to say he's against clinton's crime control bill. so i would sit there in the debate, and finally the fourth question i asked him was, did you even vote for him in '92? you get these people in the middle trying to have it both ways, they're so easy to knock over. sometimes i think it is better to have somebody stand up and say, yeah, i support the health care bill, and let me tell you

why. >> halter, the lieutenant governor, is al going up against obama's handling of the congress. what he said here is he's also against bailing out wall street with no strings attached. every aspect where the president has failed to get tough on these questions with the congress, whether it's to give away to the banks, to aig, to goldman sachs, the idea that goldman sachs has not paid the united states back anything and is rolling in that cash makes people in this country crazy. and here you've got a democrat -- here you've got a democrat saying, enough. >> we need to move on to the next topic. >> both parties trying to spin the upcoming showdown over health care reconciliation. how are they doing that, mike? >> right. they're trying to make it sound harmless. reconciliation sounds scary and republicans are already trying to brand it as a backroom way to jam something on the voters. so you see the president, you see democrats out talking about

a simple majority, an up or down vote. and concerns about how it's going to be spun is part of their deadline, part of the reason that as we told you first on "morning joe," they want to do it by the easter break, four weeks from now. speaker pelosi's chief of staff told democrats on a conference call friday, we have to do it by easter, because if not, we could have a re-run of the august chaos where democrats were accused of trying to misuse the process. this time, the big issue would not be what they were doing with health care, but how they were trying to do it. so they wanted to get it over with and go out and talk about what they've already done. >> i think a lot of people at this point want to get it over. mike allen, thank you. >> i think mike's right, i think the white house is right here. americans understand that. they understand a simple majority. it's the same thing with these justices back when republicans were trying to get an up or down vote on the justices. americans understand that. they don't understand how one senator can hold up an entire process. and also, listen, the

republicans don't have clean hands on reconciliation. you can go back, reagan, bush, people use it when they can get away with it. >> it makes sense to me. >> yeah. >> i don't understand why a majority is a majority, but then again i'm not a parliame parliamentaryian. >> they lost the americans on the bill itself. forget about the procedure, americans don't like this bill. >> yes, but the question is, i asked you this, if it passed, is it going to help republicans or hurt republicans. >> it's going to help. >> that's what i think. because that's where the president has got himself into this mess, because had he exercised the leadership and what mike is talking about, the hands-on strong stuff early, he wouldn't be here. >> let's just call the whole things off. the republicans don't want to do and democrats, it's not going to help them. >> we need this bill. >> we need some bill. i don't know if we need this bill. >> we need this bill.

>> mika, democrats keep making the mistake to say -- >> at this point, it's all you can get. >> -- let's pass the bill and everything will be okay. no. >> the country will be better off. coming up, the lost art of governing. "newsweek's" evan thomas exposes why it's become so difficult to get things done in washington. i love this article! he blames a lot of issues that plague us. plus, it's a stressful job that takes its toll. what doctors are saying after president obama's first medical checkup since taking office. that too. we'll be right back. hey!

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welcome back to "morning joe." just after 8:30 on the east coast. time for a quick look at some of today's top stories. senator john mccain says the nation's former treasury secretary misled him into supporting the t.a.r.p. bailout. the arizona republican says henry paulson told him the $700 billion rescue plan would focus on the mortgage meltdown, not on wall street. it comes as mccain faces a serious primary challenge from former congressman j.d. hayworth. stocks in europe are higher this morning amid the reports that the eu is moving forward with the plan to prop up greece,

which is reeling under its worst financial crisis in decades. the country faces more than $30 billion in debt repayments. now france and germany are reportedly in talks to provide loan guarantees in an effort to encourage banks to buy greek debt. and according to his first official checkup since taking office, president obama is in excellent health and is, quote, fit for duty. still, the white house physician recommends the president modify his diet to bring down his cholesterol. diet, barnicle, will take care of it. >> why do you do that to me all the time. >> i'm just saying you, don't need to take a pill. flaxseed, fish oil, it will do the trick. the medical team is also urging the president to continue his efforts to stop smoking. hmm. interesting. when we come back, "newsweek's" evan thomas. why he says the system in washington is working fine. it is something else.

it might be, perhaps, you and me, that needs changing. keep it right here on "morning joe," brewed by starbucks.

i served with charlie. i like charlie very much. are you disappointed, though? >> i'm disappointed. this man has served his country. i am not going to presume guilt when it comes to charlie rangel. let the investigation be complete. >> have you ever forgotten to report $500,000 on a congressional -- >> do you have to worry about that? >> have you ever done that? >> i think the answer is no. >> he just said no with a smile on his face. >> no. >> and also, i was explaining to these guys, if you go on a trip, you know who's paying for that trip, don't you? >> do you ever go on trips where you don't know who paid for it? >> no, i -- >> are you sure?

>> i'm sure. >> he's trying to -- >> being nice about it. >> doing the best he can. >> but when you go back into their past and mention something else great they did, that's not an answer. >> yeah. >> irrelevant. >> it's sort of -- it's nice to know, but it doesn't change the difference between right and wrong. i'm still kind of curious as to why we're still talking about this. here with us now, editor at large of "newsweek," evan thomas. in the latest issue of "newsweek," he writes this. "the problem is not the system, it's us -- our got mine culture of entitlement. politicians, never known for their braver, bre sizely represent the people. our leaders are paralyzed by the very thought of asking their constituents to make short-term sacrifices for long-term rewards. they cannot bring themselves to raise taxes on the middle class or cut social security and medical benefits for the elderly. they'd get clobbered at the polls, so any day of reckoning gets put off and put off again and the debts pile up."

evan, you talk about this in your piece. you go on and on about how we are fat, we are in debt, and that even in terms of sexual morals, we're just complete out of control. we have just let ourselves go as a country. >> yeah. i mean, i think that -- i mean, i loved the '60s in a lot of ways, did a lot of great things for us, the civil rights movement and the women's movement, but it led to the me generation, the me decade and we are a selfish country. we just culturally are. a lot of individuals do brave and selfless things all the time, i mean, mothers and their children, but as a country and a culture, we think there's a free lunch. our savings rate sank -- we had a savings rate of 10% in 1980. it got down to near zero. we've been living large like there's no tomorrow. >> i don't disagree with that, but as you say, washington is just fine, it's us that's broken. i would agree we have let ourselves go and we are out of control on a number of levels. however, doesn't it take leadership to right the ship?

>> absolutely. i mean, i think the problem -- the biggest problem is with the leaders, not with the people. but the leaders are a reflection of the people. somebody some day has got to step up to this. you can't -- i mean, my friends think i'm really naive about this, but political leaders have got to admit that we have a huge debt problem and the only way out of it is, one, to raise taxes, and two, to cut entitlements. you can't get from here to there unless you do that. and nobody's leveling, nobody's being honest about that. >> evan, it's not ideology, it's math. social security is going to go bankrupt. the numbers don't add up with baby boomers retiring. medicare goes bankrupt much more quickly. the national debt keeps exploding. and it seems like both parties, both sets of leaders are, like you said, aren't willing to do anything that will hurt them in next year's election. >> well, modern political rhetoric just doesn't allow it. political consultants would tell you, if you're a politician, you would say, i really think we ought to go out and recommend

cutting entitlement programs. they'll say you're crazy. and they're probably right in the short-term. they're probably right. you won't get elected. but somebody has to break through this. and that person, i think, is barack obama. i think only the president really can start this rolling. and he has made noises about it. he's hinted at it. there have been head fakes. he's set some of the rhetoric, but he's never stepped directly up to it and levelled with what we have to do here. >> evan, talk a bit about the idea that there are two concepts of service now existing in this country. one, we can read about and witness on tv. it's occurring in places like marjah, in afghanistan, where young lance corporals put their lives on the line and eat last, before prisoners eat. and the other concept of service is in washington, d.c., where you've got a group of people serving in the house and the senate who are afraid of the telephone and bloggers. >> if you want to see a disconnect, your basic -- i

started thinking about this last week, because there was a story in "the new york times" about how the marines and the army were appalled because these afghan commanders were taking drinks away from their soldiers and laughing at the soldiers. in the u.s. military, it's impossible. a commander in the u.s. military always eats after his troops. it's so built into the leadership culture there, that leaders sacrifice so their followers will. they have to set an example. compare that ethos, which is standard in the military, to what political leaders do. they're not leaders, they're followers. and they will not take a chance. >> evan, aren't you afraid you're kind of sounding like one of these people, oh, it used to be -- america was great in the eisenhower era, the '60s ruined us. if only we could go back to the innocent time. look what's going on in silicon valley? there's a lot of great things happening in this country. >> i do feel like a scold and it's always a mistake to talk

about how great it was in the good old days. look, political leaders have actually always been cowards. it sort of goes with the territory. but every once in a while, one does step up to it. there are examples in history. and i wish obama would be that example today. i don't think there was ever any great golden era, but there have been times when americans realize that they have to sacrifice a little bit for the long-term. look, we do this in our daily lives. mothers are constantly sacrificing for their children. but in the larger culture, you know, you get your credit cards, there's no such sense of debt. and look at kids. this idea of all kids being above average, look at grade inflation. there's a sort of sense, and again, it's sort of the parent's fault, that you're not responsible for anything, that you really don't have to face up to hard choices. it's just become part of our culture. >> i agree. i like evan thomas. isn't he smart? >> just because he calls everybody fat. >> well, i think we need to have this conversation. there's no pill for that. we need to have this

conversation. thank you. please come back, evan. great to see you again. >> thank you. coming up, the newest edition to the "law & order" cast. we'll talk to anthony anderson next on "morning joe." as small businesses are busy reinventing the economy, small business owners have a lot of questions. can paperless billing get me paid faster? how can i keep my best employees? how can i bring down my insurance costs? and while at american express open we may not have all the answers, we know who does. other owners. that's why we're helping business owners connect. together, we're building a community for them to talk, share and help each other. a place called openforum.com where owners can swap ideas and ask questions. will tweeting get me more customers? how can i make my business green? and one question seems especially popular.

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what are you doing here? >> have you heard from bonnie? >> no. can't we do this tomorrow? >> we believe she's hooked up with a very dangerous individual. >> there some problem here? >> they're looking for bonnie. >> who's green jacket is that? it's bonnie, isn't it? she's here. >> she says you've been harassing her. >> okay, i'm going. >> you've got to let me in right now. please. where is she? >> playing with sasha. >> i'm scared! >> no! >> look out. they're coming for you. >> holy -- "law & order" returns to nbc prime-time starting tonight. jay leno is back hosting "the

tonight show" and "law & order" moves to monday at 10:00 p.m. with a two-hour episode. what just fell there? good lord, i was worried it was a man with a knife. >> don't worry. i'll protect you, baby. >> i feel very safe now that you're here. with us now to talk about the change, actor anthony anderson. he plays kevin bernard on nbc's popular "law & order." that was quite a scene. >> it was. >> i don't stay up that late, but i might just have to. >> you have to watch that. >> that was exciting. >> that show's a juggernaut. >> i watch it, i watch it every time it's on. it's on tonight for two hours, season premiere -- not season premiere, but back tonight. i was watching it all weekend long when i was watching hockey. you came into this unit from internal affair ss. >> yes. >> do they trust you yet? >> it took a while for them to trust me, but understandably so. i'm there to find the rat. but it's good.

it's good. >> one thing that's really amazing about this show is how quickly that do plots based on real news stories. you guys follow the news, right? the people who do the show? >> throuruer words have never b spoken when they say "ripped from the headlines." i think that's a testament to the longevity of our show. as long as people are committing crimes, "law & order" will be on television. >> that's going to be forever. >> what does it do for you as an actor, being in such a successful series that goes to reruns over and over and over again. never mind financially, i'm not talking about financially, what does it do to you in terms of your growth, your development as an actor. >> no matter what i thought i had accomplished up to this point, it's broadened my audience base. and everyone's audience base that's a part of this show. you know, i've had some huge successes with films like "the departed" and "kangaroo jack" and "the transformers," but the

minute i stepped on the set of "law & order" and that first episode aired, it was like i had been opened up to 20 million, 30 million new viewers who hadn't heard of me ever before in life. i was like, wow, really. >> and are you excited now that the leno experiment has failed! you're back at 10:00. >> i'm not going to say i was cheering for leno's failure, because leno's a friend of mine. i've done his show several times, but it's good to be back at the 10:00 hour. >> and you're glad he failed? >> i'm not going to say that. >> sounds like somebody else on this show today. >> this is all i've ever wanted to go since i was 9 years old. growing up in compton, california, i wanted to be three things -- >> compton? >> straight out of compton. >> look at you. what you know about that? >> that's my music. not really. >> i wanted to play football for the dallas cowboys, i wanted to be a lawyer, and i wanted to be an actor. and at the age of 9, i realized that if i became an actor, i could be all three of those things and whatever else i wanted to become in life, so here i am.

>> i love that. that's a great story. >> and financially, it's good too. >> it is. >> the money, you weren't thinking about that. >> so when nbc started "law & order" 20 years ago, they were afraid -- the executives were afraid that it was going to be too intense, to be doing it week after week. and yet this has turned out to be, my god -- >> a franchise. >> the most profitable franchise in tv. why do people keep coming back to "law & order"? why do you have mike barnicle sitting with a beer in his hand and his boxing shorts on -- >> it's on his belly. >> i don't want that visual of mike. >> lying in a cheap motel with a straw in his beer. >> a straw. >> the smell of mildew in the sheets, high heels claking through the silhouette of the shades. >> he knows you. >> why do people like barnicle watch this? why does everybody watch this? >> because they can pick up a

newspaper and read a story about anything, anywhere in the usa and see it on "law & order" a few weeks later, with a twist to it. and i think that's what attracts people and keeps people tuning in to the show. >> joe, anthony's exactly right. i mean, from madoff to the carjacking, you read about it in the paper, then you flip it on at 10:00 at night, there's anthony and his partner, even though he's from internal affairs, working together, and you say, oh, yeah, i know this story. and you're glued to it. >> and then there's the tune. >> mike post. he's done remarkable music for our show and the franchise. that's what keeps people tuned in. you know, ripped from the headlines. >> i love it. >> by the way, barnicle, mike post's biggest hit -- >> i don't know that. >> what is it? >> "the rockford files". >> how did you know that? >> he knows everything. we have the madoff

whistle-blower tomorrow. >> markopolos, from boston. >> yeah. >> you are adorable. >> he's adorable, despite the fact he just admitted on tv, and it makes me a little sad, he was cheering against jay leno. >> come on. you're putting words in my mouth. jay will never have me on his show now. jay, you know i would never say that about you. >> we're excited you're back at 10:00 and it's been great to have you here. >> thanks for having me. >> it's been nice to meet you. >> my pleasure. >> be sure to catch two new episodes of "law & order" tonight at 9:00 on nbc and now every monday night at 10:00. i love it! when we come back, what we learn today. can i eat heart healthy without giving up taste?

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welcome back to "morning joe." we're over time, but we wouldn't have it any other way. mike, what have you learned? >> i was duped. >> andy, what did you learn? >> there's a pill for everything in america. >> i love it. carl? >> sacrifice. >> andti i've got to say, john mccain, duped, after 38 years in congress. mike, if it's way too early, what time is it? >> it's time for "morning joe,"