♪ came into my life >> isn't that pretty? look at that, new york city. beautiful shot from chopper 4. >> a lot of times people wonder why i wake up so early to get in here at 3:00 a.m. to get ready for the show. no, it's the sunrise over schenectady. by the way, this morning, schenectady, tears because harold ford jr. not running for senate. >> and harold ford jr. will be here today. will be here today to talk about that decision. good morning, everybody. >> he's not running for senate. he's going to be here at 8:00. let's go to mika with the news. >> actually, i want to say good morning to everyone. hi. okay, good morning. >> now let's go to mika with the news. >> actually, first i need to give barnicle his frosted flakes. >> thank you very much. i love frosted flakes. tony the tiger, man. whoo hoo. you can pour your own milk. and joan walsh is here.

welcome. good to have you. all right. let's get to the news. we've got a lot to talk about this morning. and don't eat with your mouth open. we're going to start with chile. the second largest city remains under curfew this morning as the government forces struggle to contain the chaos following saturday's massive earthquake. at least 723 people confirmed dead. scientists say the sheer strength of the quake actually knocked the earth from its axis and shortened the day by a tiny fraction of a second. secretary of state hillary clinton expected to arrive in chile in just a few hours. she's bringing a number of satellite phones as the first installment of usaid. we'll follow that, the devastation in chile. and the other big political story today, after months of speculation, former tennessee congressman harold ford jr. says he will not challenge new york senator kirsten gillibrand in the midterm elections. in this morning's "new york times," ford says while he could have won, he does not want to

weaken the party. gillibrand's camp is responding saying senator gillibrand has shown that she takes a back seat to no one had it comes to fighting for new york, and no matter who it is, she will wage a vigorous campaign on her strong record and her vision for new york. >> her strong record, by the way, just as inconsistent as harold's. >> well, she takes issue with that. and will be on the show. >> how do you take issue with the nakt when you're a congresswoman from upstate new york, you vote one way, and when you're a new york senator, you vote another. >> on which one? >> my gosh, social issues. i think she went around. she had, like, a gun strapped to her back when she was in upstate new york. >> that's not entirely true. >> she was like a pat buchanan, anti-immigration person. she was -- her position on gay marriage, joan walsh -- >> it has evolved. >> oh, it's evolved. it's evolved. you savage my good friend harold ford jr. as being a flip-flopper, but she's evolved.

she has changed every bit as much as harold. >> she's changed some, but she grew up in the state, and he has not been here long enough -- >> exactly. >> -- to have the right to evolve. to have the right to evolve. >> exactly. it's like hillary clinton, bobby kennedy, those people were born in utica. >> i just had lunch with her. >> born in utica? >> it's not very well known. >> born in bronxville. he was. >> hillary was born, i think, in big flats, new york, where i live. right next to horace heads. >> she was born in yankee stadium. no one is aware of that. >> with a cubs hat on. >> unfortunately with a cubs birthmark. so gillibrand -- i mean, gillibrand is -- you met her last week. you had coffee. >> i did. we had an off the record lunch. we went to a wine bar near capitol hill at 11:00 in the morning. a strike in the good column from the get-go. >> but you liked her. >> i did. i think she's tough. i think she's actually being underestimated by some people at

this table. >> i'm not one of them. >> when she comes on the show, she speaks for herself. >> why do you always do this to me? >> just eat your frosted flakes. >> mike's going to like her, you're going to like her. >> you're going to like her and you're going to also say, wow, okay. >> i've got to say, though, and we just report what we hear out there because we go to things behind the scenes and people say one thing. then they get on tv and then they say another. everywhere we go, you've had time to talk to her. i have only met her a couple times. but nobody seems really impressed with her. >> well, i talked to her about that. >> they say she's not that strong. i hear the same thing wherever i go from republicans, democrats, independents, she's only there because chuck schumer wants a weak junior. >> i talked to her about that and i don't think she's going to be a weak junior senator. she stood up on t.a.r.p. people didn't like it. she's very knowledgeable about wall street. she's very strong on that. she's going to grow into strong new york senator. and already i'm impressed by

her. i actually met her in san francisco. and i think people are underestimating her. they're underestimating her family. they're underestimating her depth of commitment to new york. you know, look, she could be open to a primary battle from the left conceivably that's not going to happen. because she has evolved. >> we've all talked about harold's evolutions. but she was on immigration. she was anti-immigration. >> right. there are people who still don't trust her, i will say that. >> and on gay marriage? >> i think the gay community has come to be more comfortable with -- >> she was against gay marriage, and now she just thinks it's the greatest thing ever. >> that's why she was in san francisco. >> and guns. guns, have you seen the collection of guns? i mean -- >> she isn't really like that. >> nra. she's flip-flopped. our friend harold ford flip-flopped and they just took him out and just beat him with a mean stick. on these left-wing marxist blogs. >> we don't want to name names,

but i think you're the same as me. i've encountered many, many people, largely from metropolitan new york. >> right. >> who like her very much personally. >> but -- >> but under about her weight in terms of is she substantive enough to represent new york state? a couple of people say, you know, terrific person. light as ashes on the issues. >> i will tell you, if you sit and talk with her, she will list for you -- you will have to interrupt -- i'm not divulging anything from our off the -- but she will give you a list that you would have to interrupt, of things that she has accomplished now that she's been there. she didn't come out of the box at first because she was obviously -- and she wanted to get something done in washington. >> yeah. >> she has a very different argument here and makes it very convincingly. and will do so on this show. i also discovered that she went to college with my brother. >> that's a problem. >> they know each other. >> you know what? >> how does that happen? >> you know what i told my son? >> how many glasses of wine off

the record, barnicle? i don't really drink from the glass. >> you and i, we're just simple country folk. and we don't know all of these people that run the world. but i say, you know, there are about 100 people that run america. there are. >> get to know them. >> and they all go to the same colleges. >> oh, no. >> oh, let me finish. >> oh, no. >> let me finish. oh, that's right, you went to williams. >> nobody went to williams. this wasn't harvard or williams. >> it was dartmouth. so anyway -- >> back when they went to dartmouth, if you're a woman at dartmouth in the 1980s -- >> toughness. >> here's my point, though. i told joe, we were playing country folk. and i said joey, we've got to go to the big city, and you need to meet some of these 100 people because they do run the world. and since i met the brzezinskis, seriously, lateral commission, all the stuff they warned me about, it's the truth. >> you knocked 50 off your list just by meeting the brzezinskis. >> 98.

they all summer in maine. anyway. >> do you remember how excited you were, i think it was three years ago, when you got joey his first pair of shoes? >> i know. seriously. you know what, though? i think he's living soft because the calluses, they're starting to wear off. calluses. when we run through the swamps of florida. >> all right, crazy. >> anyway, here's what gillibrand does have going for her. joey has mika on, they do joey scarborough, so there's a connection, right. >> something. >> a man of weight, great weight. >> yes, yes. >> but with gillibrand, you say where does she come from? why is she senator? david paterson. she's got that going for her. >> that's not fair either. >> no, but -- >> she's got her grandmother going for her, her deep albany roots, she comes from a very political family. >> that's great to know. david paterson -- >> i'm not going to argue this one. also in "the new york times" this morning, governor david paterson who is facing serious

questions about improper influence, the report says paterson personally directed two state workers to contact a woman who accused a top aide of domestic violence. that woman later failed to appear at a court hearing and claimed she was harassed by the state police to drop her case. it's an ugly story. >> mika, who does this? no, no. and i'm dead serious. as somebody that actually has been there -- >> yeah. >> -- i silt and look at charlie rangel going on trips claiming that he doesn't know who's paying for the trips. just like dick durbin, i can bring in hundreds of congressmen, senators and ask them, they would all say, you just don't do that. nobody walks out the door. it's like joan, you at salon.com taking an advertiser without knowing who they are and saying, i am joan walsh and i think this is the greatest product ever. >> right. except it causes hair to grow -- >> even more so, calling up a woman like that, no --

>> it's abuse. >> then you go to this position, and you look what this guy has done. who calls a woman? who calls a woman who is about to go to court after being abused? "the new york times" reporting violently with her face slammed into a dresser and a wall. who does that, joan? >> well, someone who thinks they can, right? >> right. you know, it's so interesting because as people were waiting for the story to drop, the speculation was that it had to do with his own affairs, perhaps, as though that's the worst thing when it turns out to be a much worse thing, abuse of power. and in kind of an intimate way, he got to know this woman. there's just something that's off. >> there's something very wrong. >> you can't do that. >> let's go on that line for one second because there were these stories that i think "the post" and "the daily news" reporting that he was caught hugging a woman in a closet in the governor's mansion. and if he had done that, of course, it would be on the front page of all the papers and he

would be gone. >> right. >> i would suggest, without -- i'm not saying that's the right thing to do, but i would suggest that this is a far -- >> far worse. >> -- far, far worse of power. and if this guy survives the weak, there's something wrong. >> i'm not sure he will. i think it's getting to the point where people are having to say, this is just -- as the details come out, it's untenable. nobody does this. nobody should do this and stay in office. it's awful. >> we have a lot more to get to. i wanted to get to senator bunn bunning. >> barnicle, get him out of jail because he's walking around aimlessly at night. >> sometimes we have to. >> but barnicle and brokaw helped us get tom hanks on friday. >> that's so great. thank you so much. >> the pacific, which "band of brothers," i still hear that music and involuntary tear up. >> absolutely. absolutely. >> hanks is going to be here friday. >> he'll be here friday.

>> talking about "pacific." >> "the pacific" is a stunning, stunning presentation of the war in the pacific. it's going to be on hbo. tom hanks producing it. >> just like he did with "band of brothers." >> in thinking about it, because of the age we live in, younger people today, sometimes they get most of their information, sadly enough, from productions like this, which is spectacular. i'll take anything that gets anyone thinking about the context of american history. and this will make you think. >> and "band of brothers" is simply the best. >> might be the best thing that ever was on tv. >> war movie i've ever seen. i know it was a series. but that was the thing about it. it's kind of like "mad men." every week, stand alone is better than most movies. >> i can't wait. thank you very much, barnicle. we're going to get to some of our other stories at half past the hour. >> mitigating times. >> thank you for coming. >> drag you off of a bench on the upper east side drooling. >> she looked 20.

>> oh, god. coming up -- >> please. >> harold ford jr. cites many reasons to not run for senate. >> my daughter's here. barnicle, stay away. >> she's, like, seriously? leave me alone. all right. according to politico, what may have been the deciding factor in ford's decision. details next in "the politico playbook." and here's a headline. rahm emanuel may be the white house voice of reason? we a number of democrats -- joan, you're laughing -- say the president needs to start listening to his chief of staff. plus, mailing it in. the u.s. postal service announces potential changes to its delivery service widely to affect every american. but first, here's meteorologist todd centos with the forecast. >> good morning, guys. looking like a pretty decent day at least here in the northeast. back towards chicago, decent. beautiful towards denver. the problems are actually more towards the southeastern u.s. you can kind of see that spin of

low pressure with some snow involved in there. mainly throughout eastern tennessee, even kentucky, may see a little accumulation towards charlotte, north carolina, could see snow mixing in over the next couple hours. even a little sleet potentially upwards of an inch of accumulation. that's one of the areas we're talking about as far as air travel. once you get down to south georgia and especially into florida, better chances for thunderstorms to fire up during the afternoon. there's a look at some temperatures as you head out the door this morning. by later this afternoon, again, we'll see some of that activity making its way through charlotte. even the outer banks of north carolina. late tonight, though, d.c., maybe a half an inch of snow. once it gets up the east coast, the system itself is going to remain primarily off the coast. so again, as i mentioned, you will see a few areas with a little coating during the daytime tomorrow. potentially snow in at least boston. for today, 42 in boston. beautiful in chicago as i mentioned. if you're headed towards the west coast, especially the bay area, will be dealing with showers. leave you now with a beautiful shot over the new york skyline. you're watching "morning joe" brewed by starbucks.

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is it delay or just confusion? so that's the basis for tonight's segment, "is it a satellite delay?" i hope you enjoy it. take a look. >> governor, it looks like a winter wonderland. how cold is it there? >> it's about 20 degrees. >> do you think today went a long way perhaps reassuring that base that they're back to their conservative values? >> i really think so. >> we appreciate you being with us, and thank you for joining us. >> hey, thanks so much. anytime, sean. >> okay. funny. time now to take a look at the "morning papers." "washington post," good boy.

"washington post," obama's enforcer may also be his voice of reason. some democrats say emanuel could have helped the administration avoid its current bind if the president had heeded his advice on some of the most sensitive subjects of the year, health care reform, jobs and -- >> hold that up. now, my father-in-law had a boat that was, like, 40 years old. and it just drove me crazy that he'd never get a new boat because he'd go out -- i'm telling you, rahm emanuel, mike barnicle, is leaking worse than a 40-year-old boat. he is leaking to anybody who will listen. and it's always the same story. i'm right. obama's wrong. guys like this usually get run out of the white house. >> how long does he last? i mean, this is ridiculous. >> can you believe this leaking? let's explain for those people who don't know how the business runs, this is what happens. you've got top officials give access, and then they write the story. >> this is the same reporter

each time. >> no, it was dana millbanks. >> basically the same thing as the news story on "the post" above the fold. when you gave me the paper this morning at 3:15, you had read it and gone through it. >> i actually read it when i was at the orphanage at 2:30, but go ahead. >> the first thing that struck me, and i show it had to joan, i'd be surprised if she doesn't have the same reaction, what do you think if you're the president and you're reading the most important paper, if only you had listened to this other guy -- >> that's probably not -- >> not a happy day. >> what would you think if you were the first lady? i can tell you, if my life were reading leaks like this, she would, like, wake me up saying, um, somebody needs to leave. >> needs to go. yeah. >> today. seriously. joan, you read this paper. again, being in the news, you knew immediately, yet another

emanuel leak. >> i thought he wrote it. i was looking through it, you know. maybe it's an op-ed. >> he wrote dana milbanks. >> okay, i got it mixed up. it's pretty egregious. and you know what's funny? we spent a lot of time talking during the primaries and one of the great things about the obama campaign was no leaking, no visible dissents. sure, there were differences behind the scenes, but they kept it together. this is just -- this is unheard of. and so damaging to this president. >> and mika, he's not only throwing the president under the bus. the president of the united states. but every story has the same -- the same merit. valerie jarrett is just a star-struck obama fan. >> right. >> david axelrod is a hapless political hack who's star struck with obama and can't tell him the truth. the same thing with gibbs. that there's this cult of obama and old rahm is the only one

there. if they had only listened to rahm, his approval ratings would still be in the 70s. these stories that he's leaking savage everybody at the white house. >> yes. i'd venture to say and i think we all would agree that being in the white house is nothing like being on the campaign trail. having said that, those people that you mention were able to do the unthinkable, and what was a concept that people laughed at a couple years ago. so it's not like they're without talent. yeah. here with us now, executive editor -- >> unlike jim vandehyke with politico. i'm sorry, i didn't know you were there. >> he's got "the morning playbook." >> can i weigh in on rahm? i don't agree with you, joe. jonk on this specific story i would bet a lot of money that rahm was not involved in it. mostly because it's clear it was put together in the last five or six days. and i think rahm is getting so much crap internally because of the milbank piece and because of other people chattering about this that i think he's going out

of his way to be a team player now. >> so tell me, what are you hearing behind the scenes about rahm writing this piece for dana milbank last week? >> you know, i mean, milbank went and did his online chat and said rahm was not the source. we have no idea who the source of that column was. there's no doubt that rahm talks to everybody in the city and that there's a lot of people out there who are rahm advocates who are saying, listen. rahm was pushing him to do something different on health care. wanted to do something different on terror policy. and he got rolled internally and that that hurt the president. so whether or not he's doing it directly or indirectly, clearly there's people who want to refurbish and protect the rahm brand and the rahm image. i do think when you have these stories, it's not good for the white house for it to be playing out on politico. >> dana has to protect his source. and if that means you say it's not rahm and you figure out a way artfully to do it, he's going to do it. we had somebody on here tell us that knows rahm, and everybody in washington is about as tied in as you can be, saying that

rahm was, quote, very promiscuous in his leaking. >> that's looked down upon in this white house. >> everybody in washington, d.c., that if you knew rahm, rahm was telling you, jim, i was there. i told him what to do. they didn't listen. >> and there's no doubt that there's a fair amount of that going on and that rahm talks to so many people in this city. like you cannot exaggerate how many people he talks to in a given day, whether it's reporters and all the different news organizations, members of congress, lindsey graham on the other side of the aisle. the guy's in constant contact. and he's like a nonending conversation. so does he always give his spin? undoubtedly. so i think the early germ of those stories certainly came from rahm's people and rahm's protecters. i don't think that this specific one did because he's getting so much flak internally and that he -- the last thing he wants is to keep this story line going and have you sitting on "morning joe" saying rahm is leaking against the president. >> well, he is.

i mean -- no, seriously. and i understand what you're saying. maybe not in this specific story. but i will guarantee you he talked to this guy or somebody that knows this guy. like you said, he will talk to anybody that will listen, and the narrative's always the same. >> let's assume what you're saying is correct. it's not that great of a narrative for him that basically every big debate internally he's losing and getting rolled. and he wants to project the image that he's the all-powerful rahm emanuel. yes, like i do think health care, the politics, undoubtedly it rings true with what rahm has been preaching for several years about what democrats should do. i don't recall early on in the debate rahm making a big push to do this thing in tiny, itty bitty pieces. everything we had seen and heard out of that white house is pretty much everybody was on the same page. >> exactly. >> exactly. >> reported on of rahm staying back while they were all traveling, working on health care reform in his office late at night. >> please.

>> poor, poor guy. >> no one else works that hard. >> any conservative will tell you in december of 2008 right before they were sworn in, rahm was on cnn saying that a crisis is a terrible thing to waste. >> you don't waste a crisis. i was about to say that. >> let's exploit it and get all we can get. >> that's not incrementally his own. >> i'm upset because he's a good friend of mine. i can tell you from schenectady over to erie, a lot of people share my grief. stop, joan. i like him. >> i do, too. >> she can't stand him. she's gleeful. >> i like him, too. i'd like to see him run again in tennessee. >> whatever. harold ford jr. not running for senate. what happened? >> well, i mean, one, it's clear he didn't think he had a chance of winning. he didn't get the reception that he wanted in new york. i do think one of the things that we picked up in the last 24 hours, ben smith, our democratic blogger who's actually stationed up in new york and been picking up a bunch of chatter, that a lot of the money on wall street, a lot of the big donors were essentially telling him, listen, now that mort zuckerman's

thinking about getting in, our money would go his way. our support would go his way. and that was basically -- that was the harold ford base was wall street, new york, and people with some deep pockets. so once that collapsed, i think his campaign collapsed. and he never really -- he never really caught on. and i think for harold ford, like he's got to think a little bit about like his political standing now. he got rejected by moderates in tennessee. he gets rejected by liberals in new york. got rejected by his colleagues in the house. so clearly he likes to take big chances to advance his own political career, but he doesn't have a great track record. >> we'll have him on at 8:00 and ask him about that. >> jim, thanks a lot. we appreciate it. >> thanks, jim. >> i'll tell you. >> we should have him on. >> there's a home for harold right here. now he can make money again. >> seriously, listen. there is no way -- and i say this as a guy that actually didn't have the money to, through my uncle, so we stole my opponent's polls and found out

two weeks before i was down by 30 percentage points the first time i ran. you can't say that harold was rejected by the voters of new york. this really was i think a really sloppy pullout, we all will admit this. this really was, the second i saw this, this is about zuckerman because he's going to take the wall street money. harold was going to run as the conservative democrat. >> it really is all about money ultimately. >> yeah. coming up, harold ford jr. will be here on the set of "morning joe." >> are you going to be nice to him? >> i'm always nice to him. >> no, you're not, you left-winger savage. also, education secretary arne duncan will join us. when we come back, olympic embarrassment. russia's president is promising heads will roll after his country's performance in vancouver. wow! sports is next. we'll be right back.

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from mortgages to credit cards. while the proposal falls short of president obama's earlier demands, the white house says the agency would still be able to act with independent authority. today the head of the u.s. postal service is set to discuss the future of the nation's cash-strapped mail system. the postmaster general is moving to reduce delivery from six days a week to five in an effort to cut the agency's massive debt, in addition to possibly canceling saturday service, the usps may also close down some branches. and jay leno is back on familiar ground with his return to nbc's "tonight show." leno reclaimed the time slot last night, just three weeks after the network canceled his 10:00 show. leno's first guest included actor jamie foxx and olympic gold medal skier lindsey vonn. >> you know, it's a shame. i read in "variety" this morning that actually jeff zucker was warned this was not going to work. >> wow. >> about moving him to 10:00. >> oh, well.

>> and the headline was, you know, if zucker would have only listened to rahm. >> i was, like, where's he going with this? how about sports, mike? >> i'll tell you what works. lebron james works. the cavaliers last night, the big acquisition during the off-season was the shaq. shaquille o'neal. but there's now a big hole in the cavs' starting lineup because shaq will likely miss the rest of the season following surgery on his right hand. but last night the cavs hosted the knicks, and cleveland dominated the cavaliers, scored 74 points in the first half. lebron james finished with 22 points as the cavs went on to defeat the knicks, 124-93, which is okay, joe and i beat them out on the playground the other day. >> we did. >> so terribly unbelievable. also this morning, a cleveland newspaper is reporting lebron james has filed paperwork with the nba to change his uniform number.

the reason? he wants to pay respect to the greatest player who wore number 23, michael jordan. james tells the paper he'll switch from number 23 to number 6. the number he wore with the u.s. olympic team. speaking of michael jordan, fresh off of reaching a deal to buy the charlotte bobcats, his first order was business was taking on rookie guard gerald henderson in a game of h.o.r.s.e. so his nike master watched two games, beat michael jordan in h.o.r.s.e. swish, nothing but net. there's jordan. clang. russian president dmitry medvedev -- >> frightening story. >> -- he's demanding that his country's sports official stel down following the country's worst ever olympic performance in vancouver. that those responsible for preparing the athletes don't resign, he said, quote, we will help them. >> oh, dear. >> that's not good.

>> russia, of course, will host the 2014 olympics in sochi. >> we're going to be interviewing him. >> are we really? >> yes. >> well, let me just say we're going to do it here and not there. >> in washington. >> good because if you ask him the wrong question in russia, you disappear. i'm wondering if he asked me to leave, i would go. >> you probably would have to. >> you'd have to. it's kind of -- remember what happened to those olympians in iraq? >> now, stop. >> saddam hussein's sons? >> you can see the olympic committee from russia on the cross country skis going to siberia. next, "the daily beast's" tina brown. also the must-read opinion pages. you're watching "morning joe" brewed by starbucks. i've been an ameriprise financial advisor for 24 years.

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this is a senator-only elevator. >> may i go down on the elevator? >> no, you may not. >> can you tell us why you're blocking this vote? >> i already did explain it. >> what is the issue? and are you concerned about people who are unemployed? >> excuse me. i've got to go to the floor. >> senator, can you just explain why you're holding this up? >> excuse me. >> are you concerned about those that are going to lose their benefits? >> okay. i don't think he wanted to answer the question. >> that's a cranky old man there. >> my goodness. >> he was going to throw -- >> a good pitcher. >> hall of famer. detroit tiger. >> welcome back. joining us on the set, the founder and editor in chief of thedailybeast.com. >> jonathan karl of abc news.

we've heard tina brown, the new model is that you get one person working like abc or cbs or nbc and they do everything. >> right. >> sounds like the daily beast to me. >> exactly. but jonathan karl chasing down jim bunning. >> what is wonderful about that is everybody keeps complaining nothing gets done in congress, but at least republicans get up every morning determined to get nothing done. he's 200,000 people on that federal site now, they have nothing to do either. so it's like everybody's trying to not get anything done, right? >> well, what do you make of what he's doing, his decision, i guess, to block the payments, unemployment -- i mean, what? what? >> nothing. >> can you give me a response? you can't close the elevator door. >> here's what -- here's what i would say. i wish i could right now. i would say that if the republicans had not spent so much money over the past eight years and had not been so hypocritical about being for smaller government, then jim

bunning's argument that we're not going to extend these benefits and these other things until we figure out how to pay for them would be fine. and i would justify them. i'd say the president wants to do paygo. okay. well, then we will spend this additional money once you tell us where it's coming from. >> that's fair. >> unfortunately, they voted for a $7 trillion drug benefit. medicare drug benefit. they couldn't afford. two wars. two tax cuts. the biggest spending increase. domestic spending increase ever. again, fine. i understand, as a small government conservative, joan, ideologically why he would do this. but it doesn't square up with what he and everybody else has done for the past eight years. >> exactly. it's inconsistent. >> and why take on employment? >> these are people who were recently in the work force. there's no question that they want to get back into the work force. but there's no jobs. this is something that

traditionally democrats and republicans could agree on that this was a good way to spend money. allegedly, you know, you spend $1, you get $2 back. they stimulate the economy by staying in their houses and paying their mortgages or their rent. this is good money to spend. and this one man on his own, i guess, is holding it all up. >> seriously. >> as you say, it is this dreadful hypocrisy. it's the fact that they were on this for eight years and now they're coming off pi pious, ant is ridiculous. where were they when we needed them? how people really do these those jobs and now they've decided it's a day late and a dollar short, frankly, this behavior. >> and joan said it was cruel not to do this. i, again, could make the argument that it is cruel to all of us to keep spending money that we don't have. but to start with unemployment benefits while passing everything else over the past eight years. and i say that as somebody,

again, just to put a human face on it, my dad worked for lockheed. he was unemployed from '73 to middle of '74. and i'll tell you what, those unemployment benefits, every week, he always said, it puts -- helps us fill the tank and helps us buy groceries. >> keeps people barely being on the brink. >> no wonder people are wild. the whole tea party movement is fueled by this kind of giant disconnect, a sense that unless people are going to do something for themselves, they can't -- who's going to fend for them? they just feel they have to get together and just scream. which is really all that's happening right now. >> do you think part of it is bunning's behavior in this is that guys like bunning, they know they can depend on the decorum of the united states senate, that nobody on the floor is going to call them out. if you do it in a factory, if you do it in a public school, you know, something like this, i mean, your coworkers would call you up and say hey, what are you

doing? come on. the united states senate would say, well, the gentleman from kentucky. >> i have to say, actually, i agree with that. because in the british commonwealth, it's way more -- people get way more abusive with each other. >> i love it. >> i'll tell you what i would like. if jim bunning wants to continue this, that's fine. but let's have a discussion. let's have a discussion about why -- like other republicans have explained, why they voted the way they did for all the things over the past eight years that put us $11.5 trillion in debt. and at some point, though, i will say, on the other side of it, we had dick durbin here yesterday. and he said, well -- i said, well, what about paygo? dick durbin said, well, this is an emergency. okay, fine. but guess what? when nancy pelosi got in as speaker of the house, she said they were going to have paygo, and the deficits have just exploded since then. and it's always an emergency. it's -- >> it's not always an emergency. this really is an emergency. >> what i'm saying, though,

congress always says, well, this is exempt from paygo because this is an emergency. at some point we're just going to have to figure out where the money comes from. >> well, it's a fair argument. >> that's okay. >> you're mad. >> well, i am. >> what did she call you? an awkward moment here. it's usually you. >> what? >> ambien and not able to remember my name. >> if you only knew. "new york times," why i'm not running for senate. harold ford jr. i've examined this race in every possible way, and i keep returning to the same fundamental conclusion. if i run, the likely result would be brutal and highly negative democratic primary, a primary where the winner emerges weakened and the republican strengthened. i refuse to do anything that would help republicans win a senate seat in new york and give the senate majority to the republicans. >> tina brown, jim suggested this was about mort zuckerman

getting into the race and taking all that wall street money. is that what you're hearing? >> what's interesting is it's not part of kirsten gillibrand able to win, it's this hairy-chested approach to this whole situation. the fact is that gillibrand is, i think, a very effective senator. she's also extremely good fund-raiser, and she quietly amasses a lot of support. she's very effective. i think she's hard to beat. and i think that harold ford discover that he couldn't. >> it's 3-2. >> yeah. >> 3-2. >> i do. >> all right. we shall see. >> what a surprise. >> nobody wants to give it the kirsten gillibrand. it's always about chuck schumer's fund-raising or mort zuckerman's money. give it a little bit of a ch chapois. >> tina brown, thank you. up next, was it all a dream? jay leno returns to "the tonight show" and admits there's really no place like home.

we'll be right back with more "morning joe." hey!

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♪ working on the night moves snoet dick cheney. do you remember dick cheney? he was the vice president with george w. bush. he was george w. bush's sidekick. and he's best remembered for going hunting and shooting guys. and he also has a history of heart problems as well, i'll be darned, over the weekend, he had his fifth heart attack. fifth heart attack. he's okay, resting comfortably. and the doctor, after they made the diagnosis, stamped his card. and the sixth one is free. >> that's dave. tina brown and i are sitting around here. we're talking about last night's jay leno deal. nine months and one big controversy later, jay is back in late night. as nbc's rafael seth shows us, he's looking comfortable and saying there's no place like home. >> it's "the tonight show with jay leno." >> reporter: from the opening

title sequence -- >> tonight jay welcomes jamie foxx. >> reporter: -- to the freshened up theme song -- everything about the new "tonight show with jay leno" seemed to project the verve and energy his short-lived primetime show lacked. >> thank you very much. >> it's a very lively show. >> he was just right in the groove. >> reporter: despite the good start, leno did not hold back from taking shots at his employer. >> when it comes to going downhill, nobody's faster, okay, except nbc. but other than that -- >> reporter: and he had trouble keeping first guest jamie foxx in his chair. gold medal skier lindsey vonn's appearance prompted patriotic chants from the audience. >> usa! usa! >> reporter: leno will have to maintain that kind of energy for months if he wants to keep the crowd devoted to him and reclaim the late-night crown. >> i think it's going to be closer. i think he'll be very competitive. i think you'll see jay work really hard because that's what he does. >> reporter: leno did work hard to find a new desk for his "tonight show" do-over.

but perhaps the show's best moment came before the opening credits. when leno and company parodied the end of "the wizard of oz." >> i went away to the strangest place. it was wonderful. but some of it wasn't so nice. >> he'd like it to sort of be like a bad dream, you know? we've gone back, folks. don't pay attention to what happened in the last seven months here. >> you're going to be just fine. >> reporter: for one night at least, jay leno showed his audience and others in late night there truly is no place like home. rafael seth, nbc news. >> all right. good luck, jay. he's a good guy. >> yeah. >> he's a very good guy. coming up next, you know who's here? you know who's here? pulitzer prize-winning jon meacham. >> my goodness. >> it's unbelievable how we got him, but he's here. and why he says the elections being held in iraq five days from now will be a lot different from previous ones. keep it on "morning joe." national car rental knows i'm picky.

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i hope republicans will reconsider and think about their constituents standing in the unemployment line as we speak. i hope they will consider. >> if we can't find $10 billion to pay for something that we all support, we will never pay for anything on the floor of this u.s. senate. i have offered several ways to do this including trying to negotiate with the majority leader's staff. none have been successful. ♪ but i stand my ground >> all right. welcome back to "morning joe." top of the hour. i'm mika brzezinski. still with us here on the set, mike barnicle along with joan walsh. also joining us on the set, pulitzer prize-winning author and editor of "newsweek" magazine, jon meacham whose magazine has an interesting new cover this week titled "victory at last." the emergence of a democratic

iraq. we're going to get to that in a moment. i look forward to talking to you about that. a lot going on today. senator bunning under fire for this unemployment benefit issue. you saw that interaction earlier we showed you with jonathan karl from abc news and him closing the elevator door on him. but i've got to tell you, it just seems, meacham, it just seems like now's not a good time for people to be cut off from their benefits. and can't they agree on just this? isn't this the kind of thing that keeps people from the brink? and aren't we at a time in this country where so many people are? >> absolutely. and i think that this is -- i think the reports of washington's dysfunctionality are overdone. i think there's often a reflection of what we want in our own conflicted view of public life. however, if you want a case against the easy man's filibuster -- >> yeah. >> -- this is it. this ain't mr. smith goes to washington. he's not standing there and

making some noble point. he's done a technical thing. and then he goes about his business. and so i think that if you're going to take the stand on principle, then filibuster it the way they meant for filibusters to be. >> i think a really bad time, actually. >> it was a bad time. >> people are sick of this and they're wondering how one person -- >> why don't we call them out for what they are, in this case jim bunning. a total hypocrite. you can't vote for trillion-dollar tax cuts for the wealthy, you can't enable medicare spending and then vote against unemployment benefits as a cost-savings measure? i mean, come on. >> i couldn't agree with you more. >> the optics don't look good. they don't look good. again, i want to underline the point, if this is about saying, okay, the president says and the republicans say we want to pay as we go, that's fine. but you've got to do that with the next pork barrel project that you try to get in kentucky. and, again, the timing is just

horrible. to deal with unemployment benefits after watching the national debt go from $5.7 trillion to $11.8 trillion under republican leadership, it just -- >> it just -- again -- >> strikes a discord. let's get a look at some of today's other top stories. government forces in chile face another day of extraordinary challenges as police and soldiers work to contain the chaos following saturday's massive earthquake. at least 723 people are confirmed dead. a curfew is imposed in the country's second largest city following widespread looting. scientists say the sheer strength of the quake actually knocked the earth from its axis and shortened the day by a tiny fraction of a second. >> that's biblical. now, that is biblical. >> that's alabama pensacola. >> that is epic, my man, true story. it's like armageddon. >> yeah. >> the movie, not actually the revelation story.

secretary of state hillary clinton is expected to arrive in chile in just about an hour. she's bringing a number of satelli satellites as a first installment following her trip there. after months of speculation, former tennessee congressman harold ford jr. says he will not challenge new york senator kirsten gillibrand in the midterm elections inspect in this morning's "new york times," while ford says while he could have won, he doesn't want to weaken the party through a contentious primary. gillibrand's camp is responding to that saying, quote, senator gillibrand has shown that she can take a back seat to no one when it comes to fighting for new york. and no matter who her opponent is this fall, she will wage a vigorous campaign on her strong record and her vision for new york. we're going to be asking harold about his decision coming up later in the show. he'll be right here on the set of "morning joe." >> boy, you can tell by that statement, she is tough. just like you women have been saying around the table, she's tough. >> she's very tough. >> she is no tool of chuck schumer. >> okay. >> chuck schumer did not

pressure david paterson to appoint her because he thought that she would be weaker. no, she's tough. you can tell. i cannot wait to have her on the show. >> you're going to love her. >> i love everybody. >> the cover of "newsweek" next week is going to be harold, we hardly knew you. what happened? >> i asked the congressman. he was on the cover of "newsweek" in october of '06 during his race against bob corker with the line "not your daddy's democrats," which in the ford dynasty has various meanings. and he seems to be still a kind of democrat who is going to be, if the democratic party is going to win in what is clearly drinking game, a center-right country, it's going to take people like -- sorry -- it's going to take people like harold. >> in states like tennessee, in

red states, but not in states like new york. you know? i don't think -- >> things are going very well for the administration, by and large. but just a second. just one second on that. i think harold is an incredibly talented guy. he's also a baby. he's, what, 39 years old. >> he's young. >> i think this -- >> you're, like, 40, by the way. >> no, no, no, no, no. somebody has to look like walter mondale. >> thank you for doing that. >> you fit that bill. no, i will tell you, when you look at harold economically, that is a type of democrat that a lot of people on wall street that like voting democratic for social reasons would like. i think in new york state harold would do exceptionally well because i always have a lot of democrats come up to me from wall street saying, please. find me a republican i can support. my party's gone crazy this year. >> right.

but i don't know that wall street is the constituency in new york we need to be the most concerned about. so the fact that wall street loved him and rich men loved him did not make him a great new york candidate to me. perhaps to you. >> rich women could have liked him, too. >> i'm not going there. he has a wife. >> harold's coming. harold's going to be here. >> he'll be here. >> i have a theory that he should have run as the candidate of the regency and just said, i eat breakfast -- not martin van buren's -- but i eat breakfast at the regency. i get in a car and i come to "morning joe." this is my world. i don't -- >> don't run from it. >> excuse me. >> i haven't been to staten island, but i know how to fight for the people on staten island. >> does the regency have its own senate seat? >> it does now. >> where have i been? i've been in california. i didn't hear that.

>> god. okay. so does michaels. >> michaels is a fancy new york restaurant. >> i think harold's got a good future. >> absolutely. >> but he had the president against him. he had chuck schumer against him. he had the democratic establishment against him. so -- >> i think the mort zuckerman factor ultimately. >> i think zuckerman sucks the money out of it for him. >> he's not running? >> he's not running. >> i don't think he's going to run. >> really? >> i think mort, perhaps, thought of running if harold stayed in the race, and that was such an ugly skirmish between the two of them. and then i think mort might have seen an opportunity to do it as an independent in the fall because it would have drawn out a strong republican into the race. >> so gillibrand walks into this new york senate seat? >> right now it looks that way. >> she's scaring them off. >> whatever. >> one after another. >> whatever. she's the martha coakley of the empire state. >> that is not the case. no, no, no.

>> we'll wait and see. >> you will eat those words, my friend. >> does that make light of scott brown? >> no. there is no scott brown. mort zuckerman perhaps. >> to beat coakley, you have to have a scott brown. scarborough runs. >> now everybody that comes on my show runs. >> there you go. it's the "morning joe" senate election. >> willie could run. >> that would be good. that would be good. >> all right. let's keep going. also in "the new york times" this morning, another article on governor david paterson. >> speak of veering wildly off course. >> good lord. just crash course. train wreck. facing serious questions about improper influence. the report says paterson personally directed two state workers to contact a woman who accused a top aide of domestic violence. that woman later failed to appear at a court hearing and claims she was harassed by the state police to drop her case.

>> joan, seriously. can you believe the poor judgment used by this guy? can he survive? >> no. i don't think he can survive. >> not even the end of his term? >> no, i really don't think so. i really think the way that this is rolled out and it's gotten worse day by day, you know, we can all be upset about somebody visiting a prostitute. that's not good either. but to intimidate in this way, to use his office to intimidate her, i don't care what he said. i don't care if he put his hand on her hand and said, how are you doing? how can we make this better for you and whatever else was said. >> i actually don't see anything good about either of those things. >> i don't either, but i'm saying -- >> visiting a prostitute? >> a 23-year-old prostitute. >> i'm not defending it, mika. i'm not defending it at all. >> please get off your moral high horse. seriously. i don't want to sound like a total libertarian here. >> well, i don't want to sound like a skull. >> on the one hand you have two

people who make decisions on their own. secondly, on this paterson case, though, you have a governor talking to two state employees, say pressure this woman who got her face slammed into a desk by this thug that works for him, pressure her not to testify. to even compare those two things is ridiculous. >> i see nothing good about what you're describing, but i would say abuse of power applies to the former governor as well. and they're equally as wrong -- >> there are a lot of people in sanitation -- >> the people he prosecuted. come on. >> there are people in sanitation that use abuse of power. i'm using my job to get a hooker. seriously, do you have nothing else to worry about in >> it is so just not the concept of using a prostitute. it is the morning, so i will -- >> in my world, the immorality of using your power to

intimidate a woman who was brutalized by a man who works for the governor of the state of new york and he uses two officials to call her, intimidate her, and then he calls her the day before a hearing which he doesn't show up for? that is -- that is in such a different league than what eliot spitzer did. i'm not defending eliot spitzer. it's wrong. but he can take that up with his rabbi or his priest or whatever. jon meacham, i don't know how the governor of new york survives this. >> i don't either. i think that it's obviously the worst thing we can see in this case because it is an abuse of power on top of abuse. >> right. >> you know, this isn't -- >> which one are you talking about? >> well, this -- no, not governor spitzer. not at all. there was physical abuse. there was a crime committed.

and then the new york state police and officials attempted to -- and the governor of new york attempted to keep that quiet. so that is an injustice on top of an injustice. >> and they succeeded. >> and succeeded. and so you have a clear -- i don't want to get into -- actually, i'm more with joe on this. >> but we don't want to talk about it. >> no, because they both involve the degradation of women. and i'm sorry to sound like a skull, but can we just keep it real? >> mika, my god. >> one is better than the other? >> moral equivalency? i'm not saying either one of them are good, but why do you insist on bringing eliot spitzer into this situation? >> i didn't. he did. >> but does he survive? >> if he doesn't have the common sense. never mind judgment or abuse of

power, if he doesn't have the common sense not to make that phone call, he doesn't have the common sense to be governor of new york, and what about the state police? what is the head of the state police going to be asked to resign for inflicting himself and his agency into a case in brooklyn from albany? the state police? >> they need to be -- they need to be -- >> clean house. >> they need to be taken out of their positions. i mean, any of us that have daughters, think about this. think about these, you know, these men. i have no more words for it. the guy seriously should leave office at once. >> yeah. >> it's disgraceful. >> like today. moving on with news. >> does that mean that -- i don't know. is there a thing that we could reverse back and get our last governor in? i'm sorry. although president obama remains popular with democrats, a new poll shows -- that makes it okay -- a new poll shows support is not rubbing off on

senator harry reid, despite the president's trip to nevada last month. just 7% of voters say they are more likely to support reid. 17% say the president's trip actually hurt the senator's chances. and 75% say it actually had no effect on their vote. all right. >> yeah. >> all right. >> i guess that's not a good thing, huh? >> no. >> harry's gone. and this goes back to what you were saying about -- and this does feed back into new york and the president. things aren't going well for president obama. and i would suggest that joan said is exactly right. in most normal years, you want guys like harold running in states like tennessee. this year, i think -- i think, for instance, getting a progressive in arkansas, probably not going to work out well for the party this year. >> no, you saw the primary challenge to lincoln. >> right. i think this year, even in states like new york, democrats are more conservative than they

were a year and a half ago. this is a center-right state right now. >> yeah. it's so funny how fast everything moves. it's a cliche. it is a cliche, but cliches are cliches because they're true. everything moves so rapidly. so even those of us who expected this to be a republican year, just based on 66 -- >> it happens. >> this is really, really moving a lot faster. now, what that could mean is that it's burning itself out pretty fast. let's say obama gets some kind of health care reform of some kind. he signs it. suddenly my old governor, senator alexander, can't run against -- run against repealing something, some republicans voted for. now, it's only the 2nd of march.

>> right. >> there's a long time. >> there's a ways to go here. i just wish that the conversation -- and i think what the president did last week, though some people didn't like it, was a step in the right direction, you know? it shows that this stuff's complicated. it shows that a lot of people have vested interests, which is not a bad thing, you know. that's what interests are. and we're supposed to, you know, madison set this up so we could argue about it. >> yeah. >> i like that. >> i think so. i do think at some point soon it gets too late for the white house to change the narrative. you've got from january of this year to march of this year. i think over the -- if he's going to turn things around -- >> it's going to be fast. >> yeah. to change the narrative for this cycle -- >> yes. >> it's got to be in the next month or two. because positions are hardening. >> and it's also the perception of incompetence, of not getting

things done and not knowing how to govern. that's damaging with democrats so you have democrats with an enthusiasm gap and also demoralized. >> they really are. democrats are depressed. >> i'm not depressed. >> no, you're happy. sunshine patriot. we've always said that of you. but what's so fascinating about all of this is, to me, is that the republican party is not on the ascent. the democratic party is collapsing. and there's just sort of this general anti-obama -- general though conservative antibig government feeling that i think is going -- i think because of deficits and debt is going to be with us for a very long time. >> that's a very good point. this is not a republican resurgence as much as it is an anti-obama insurgency. >> he's very popular. >> anti-big government. >> anti-big business, too. >> right. >> there are a lot of strings in this. and obama remains popular

personally. it's the democrats who are suffering. all right. coming up next, president obama will give the graduation speech at one public high school this spring. it's part of a nationwide contest from the white house. details next with education secretary arne duncan. and a little later, harold ford jr. will be here to talk about his decision not to run for senate in new york state. and here's a headline. rahm emanuel may be the white house voice of reason. >> who wrote that headline? rahm emanuel? >> why a number of democrats say the president needs to start listening to his chief of staff. but first, here is meteorologist todd santos with a check on the forecast. todd. >> hey, good morning once again. looking pretty good across many areas from chicago back through denver. chicago, maybe a few snowflakes here and there. just kind of flurries. once you head back down towards the southeast, that's where we run into problems. a lot of lightning strikes reported from tampa through cape canaveral, even lore an dough. another batch of thunderstorms just off the coastline. we'll see some of those moving

in during the day. also charlotte could see a little bit of snowfall. as far as air travel, that may be an issue. the bay area will see increasing chances for showers throughout the day. otherwise some temperatures this morning, as you head out the door, looking at a few cool areas. for the most part, we'll see some of these areas warming up nicely by later this afternoon. and that includes you, new york city. we'll be right back. for now you're watching "morning joe" sponsored by starbucks. so how long does it take a fresh vegetable to start losing essential nutrients? not long. in fact, green beans lose half their vitamin c in a week. that's why green giant freezes them within 8 hours to lock in nutrients. ho ho ho green giant

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high school dropouts are more likely to be teen parents, more likely to commit crime, more likely to rely on public assistance, more likely to lead shattered lives. what's more, they cost our economy hundreds of billions of dollars over the course of a lifetime. in lower wages. and higher public expenses. so this is a problem we cannot afford to accept, and we cannot afford to ignore. the stakes are too high for our

children, for our economy, and for our country. >> that was president obama yesterday. a live look at the white house this morning as the sun comes up over washington. the white house is taking bold steps to fix the student dropout rate. yesterday the president outlined his proposal to offer $900 million in federal grants to turn low-performing schools around. and here with us now, secretary of education, arne duncan. secretary duncan, good to have you back on the show. >> good morning. >> obviously, the problem is massive. i mean, i think detroit is one in four students drop out. the rate is unbelievable. how will the white house be using this money to turn this situation around? >> what we're trying to say to the country is that there was a time in which it was actually okay to drop out. there was an acceptable dropout rate. as we know, there are no good jobs today in the legal economy for a high school dropout. so we want to put unprecedented resources behind those schools and school districts that have the courage and the capacity to challenge the status quo and get

dramatically better. >> what do you mean by challenging the status quo? define that for us. >> it means there are many different models. we're saying what's happening today isn't good enough. so whether it's transforming a school, whether it's turning it around, more time, different adults, whatever it takes, we have to make sure that every child has a chance to get a great, great education. >> so you're not talking about throwing good money after bad. you're looking to schools like the ones that mika and i -- like harlem village academy that's doing a remarkable job in harlem. those type of schools that achieve are the ones that are going to get money from you? >> that's exactly right. and so often these dropout factories are in low-income communiti communities. what i think the country's starting to understand is poverty is not destiny. we've never had so many around the country. schools like the harlem village academy that virtually closed achievement gap of wealthiest suburbs. that has to become the norm, not the exception. those are the kind of projects

we want to invest in. >> let me ask you this, mr. secretary, because it's going to take political courage for the president of the united states to do what you're recommending. he's going to have to do what they've done up in harlem. he's going to have to empower principles to hire teachers that work, that teach these children, that help them, like you say, erase the achievement gap with rich suburbs. but at the same time, the principals are going to have to be able to fire teachers that don't get the job done. will this president stand up to the powerful special interests? let's just say it, the teachers unions, that sees teaching as a job instead of a mission? >> i think the president has shown tremendous courage. and i also have to give the national union leaders credit that all of them are saying that the status quo isn't good enough, that we have to get dramatically better. so i think this is one thing the country can unite behind. this is a bipartisan effort. the president announced this yesterday with colin powell.

all of us have to work together. and where we have schools where 50%, 60%, 70% of students are leaving school for the streets each year, that is moralally unacceptable and economically unsustainable. all of us have a stake in getting better. >> you say the teachers unions are working. and they understand there's a problem. i mean, in new york state, we've got an example of $700 million that the new york state legislature turned down from you because the teachers union didn't like the idea that more schools like harlem village academy would be created because that is a challenge to their monopoly. in washington, d.c., of course, school choice was killed by special interests in this administration. i love what you're saying. and i believe that you have the right path forward. but the question is, when it's time to make tough choices, will this president stand up to teachers unions and say, we're going to reward success, and we're going to punish failure.

yes, even if it means we fire teachers. >> the president's committed to doing the right thing by children. again, sometimes you have to change adults. in every low-performing schools, there's great teachers. there are some that aren't so good. even like the rhode island case discussed yesterday, good teachers can be rehired there. but this president has been committed from day one to saying we have to educate our way to a better economy. it's the only way we get there. day after day, week after week. he has stayed true to that mission. this is a personal one for him. >> all right. "newsweek's" jon meacham is here. speaking of an education gap. he went to suwanee. go ahead. >> let me try to speak slowly, sir. which is what i do. sir, this is, obviously, an important initiative. can you describe what you're doing on the other end of the chain in terms of early childhood education and elementary help? my wife has worked in harlem in education, and her major

takeaway was if you don't really emphasize things between the ages of 0 and about 6, that everything else -- the problems multiply after that. >> right. that's exactly right. please thank your wife for her tremendous commitment. what the president is proposing is an unprecedented investment in early childhood education. i think all of us can make a pretty good argument, this is the best investment we can make. if our 5-year-olds hit kindergarten ready to learn and read with the literacy and socialization skills intact, we can close the achievement gap. he's proposing almost $10 billion over the next decade to go into early childhood education. it's actually part of the higher ed bill that has passed the house, that's before the senate. if that happens, we'll have a race to the top just like for k-12 education. so huge additional resources come in to two do things. two dramatically increase access to early childhood education and secondly to improve quality. this can't be glorified baby-sitting. but where you have high-quality early childhood education. we start to level the playing

field, and our students can do very, very well going forward. >> mike barnicle. >> okay, mr. secretary, i'm not going to ask you about harvard basketball today. >> thank god. >> but i am going to ask you to stick with the points that you just raised in terms of early childhood education. we talk a lot about high school dropout rates with the truancy rate leading up to high school just predicts the doctropout ra. what are you going to be able to do about young people coming out of college who want desperately to go and teach like in the toughest schools, inner-city schools, and they can't do it because of union restrictions or union roadblocks? what are you going to do about getting more people in k-2, k-3 to help rescue these kids? >> i've even expand it and say pre-k through 12. right now, due to the tough local budgets, it's a tough time in terms of hiring. but as we look out four, five, six years, we anticipate as many as 1 million teachers retiring. the baby boomer generation moving towards retirement. so we think we can hire 1 million teachers nationally in

the not-too-distant future. so what we want is the hardest-working, the most committed young people from around the country to come into education. this is absolutely a call to service. one of the things the president is pushing very, very hard is something called income-based repayment. so that young people who graduate from college, if they go into the public sector, if they come into teaching, all their loans would be erased after ten years of public service. so this is a once in a lifetime generational shift and we have a huge chance to bring that next generation of talent into education. it's an extraordinary opportunity for us. >> secretary duncan, before you go, i love this commencement challenge. tell us how a high school can get the president to speak at their graduation. >> if they come to us at whitehouse.gov, applications for this challenge with due march 15th. this will be a ton of fun. the president wants to go to a high school every single year starting this spring. and those high schools that submit applications by march 15th that can demonstrate what they're doing to make sure all of their graduates are college and career ready, the president will see you this spring.

>> that's great. all right, secretary duncan, always good to have you on the show. thank you very much. come back soon. >> good luck. >> thanks so much. >> all right p. >> you were up at harlem village academy this weekend, right? >> i was. my daughter and i were there. >> it is amazing. you go up there. and i agree with you completely, jon, that you've got to get these kids at an early age. even -- that being the case, it's so stunning. you go into harlem village academy. and you see these students that come in in fifth grade with first great appelitude in readi and science. they have 100% proficiency. higher scores there than in the wealthiest suburbs of westchest westchester. it is a revolution that can take place. but we talk about whether the president's strong enough or not. he's got to stand up to the special interests. >> but he is. you know, a lot of their funding is going to schools that stand up to the teachers, that impose

merit pay, that impose higher standards. he's doing more behind the scenes. >> do you support higher pay? >> yes. >> do you support hiring teachers that don't perform? >> i do. >> god bless you. >> thank you. >> i like that. by the way -- >> she cares about kids. >> at the harlem village academy, they had their first graduating class a year from this spring. the president ought to consider going to that. that would be an amazing event. >> that's happening everywhere, mika. we go down to new orleans. we're seeing this happening in new orleans. we'll be going to florida next month. >> yep. >> and, again, it is -- you get -- you talk about reform. and you talk about this plan, that plan. well, maybe in 10 or 15 years it will change. the right education reform revolutionizes the poorest areas in america overnight. >> and therefore a country. coming up, we'll be talking more about rahm emanuel and all the politics of the day. we'll be right back with more "morning joe." right now, when you stay two separate times...

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what's going on? we ordered a gift online and we really need to do something with it... i'm just not sure what... what is it? oh just return it. returning gifts is easier than ever with priority mail flat rate boxes from the postal service. if it fits, it ships anywhere in the country for a low flat rate. plus i can pick it up for free. perfect because we have to get that outta this house. c'mon, it's not that... gahh, oh yeah that's gotta go... priority mail flat rate shipping starts at $4.95 only from the postal service. a simpler way to ship and return. welcome back to "morning joe." it is just after 7:30 on the east coast. time for a quick look at some of today's top stories. a plan to impose new regulations on wall street appears to be gaining ground with senate negotiators. under the proposal, a new agency

would be housed in the federal reserve to oversee everything from mortgages to credit cards. while the proposal falls short of president obama's earlier demands, the white house says the agency would still be able to act with independent authority. today the head of the u.s. postal service is set to discuss the future of the nation's cash-strapped mail system. the general is proposing to reducing mail delivery from six days to five in an effort to cut the agency's massive debt in addition to canceling saturday service. the usps may also close some branches. and jay leno is back on familiar ground with his return to nbc's "the tonight show." leno reclaimed the time slot just three weeks after the network canceled his 10:00 show. tonight's guests include former alaska governor sarah palin. should be interesting. coming up next, he's one of the -- he's the one the senator defiantly holding up a spending bill. he is the one senator who's

doing that. if i can get the words out. we're going to show you what happened when reporters held up senator bunning's elevator. an interesting little confrontation. that is next with savannah guthrie from the white house. client's come in, they're anxious. scared. they don't know where to begin. so we start to talk about what have they done and what are their goals.

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excuse me, this is a senator-only elevator. >> no, you may not. >> can you tell us why you're blocking this vote? >> i already did. i explained it. >> what is the issue? and are you concerned about the people who are unemployed? >> excuse me. i've got to go to the floor. >> senator, can you explain to us why you're holding this up? >> excuse me. >> are you concerned about those that are going to lose their benefits? >> i just want to ask you a question. all right. live from washington, nbc news

white house correspondent and host of "the daily rundown," good to see you, savannah. how does the white house plan to get around -- i think people are -- it's kind of frustrating that one person can hold up something like this. and i guess that's the reality in washington. does the white house have any plans to get around senator bunning? >> well, if there are plans, i think they probably reside with the senate majority leader. it's just the privilege of being a senator, that's the world's greatest dleliberative body. one senator can gum things up. but look, this is a fight i think the white house likes being on the other side of because in this particular case, these are unemployment benefits that are being held up. c.o.b.r.a. and they like having that argument. they seem to relish that argument inside the briefing yesterday with robert gibbs. i think they feel like they're on the right side here. on the other hand, you know, bunning's point is, look, this is fine to do this, but you've got to pay for it. democrats gleefully point out he

voted against those pay as you go rules and on and on it goes. i think in total, the white house doesn't mind having this fight because they think if they're on the side of folks getting a little help who are, you know, having a problem finding a job, then that's a good place for them to be. >> hey, speaking of fights, do you think the white house is going to have the courage to take on the teachers unions? i know arne duncan is saying all the right things. the president spoke yesterday on education. i think this is a great opportunity for the president to move forward in a bipartisan way. will he stare down the teachers unions? >> well, i think -- at a minimum, i think they'll do something that will look like that. it's really, i think the issue is degree more than anything. how far is he willing to go. but i think you're right. it has the potential of being a real moment of bipartisan appeal for him. it could be president obama's welfare reform moment which, of course, engaged people on the far left but had a lot of appeal in terms of independents in the

middle. and the white house is probably looking for opportunities to do that kind of thing x particularly since the health care reform debate was framed successfully by his opponents as the president being far left, far outside the mainstream. whether or not that's true or not is another matter. but that's certainly how it was framed. >> barnicle. >> savannah, if you were here today, i think you'd be greatly gratified -- >> don't say anything inappropriate, please. >> i'm not going to. because we've been showing the clip of senator bunning refusing to answer those questions and the elevator door closing. we've been showing that clip all morning. if the senator were more like joe scarborough, this would be a better country. there used to be a joe-only elevator. >> there was. >> and joe did away with that. so now we can all take the elevator that only joe used to be able to take. >> you know, as i've always said, we are the world. we are the people. jon, let me ask you to something to follow up about welfare reform. and we always believe that if clinton had gone for welfare reform in '93 and '94 and said

health care reform, republicans would have taken over, do you think the left will understand -- i'm talking the far left -- will understand if this president pushes forward with an education reform plan? that will take on teachers unions which has been one of the more loyal allies to the left over the past generation. >> i think the left -- speaking for the left -- i think liberals understand that there needs to be fundamental change mainly in urban schools, but in all schools, and that teachers unions can be -- they aren't always -- but can be a huge obstacle. i mean, i know that republicans are spoiling -- why is it that democrats always have to kick somebody in their base and republicans never have to? so i know you want to frame this as he's got to keep the teachers unions. >> no. we have randy on, and i like randy who runs the teachers union. >> right. >> but the problem is, you go into these schools and say, oh, god, this works. why can't we do that?

why do these 300 children in harlem have a ticket out of poverty, but the rest of them don't? the teachers unions won't let us. time and time and time -- i'm not -- i'm seriously not spoiling for a fight. nothing would please me more if the teachers union would say, you know what? >> we're going to take this on. >> we're going to get rid of tenure. we're going to get rid of bad teachers. but the stories -- read the stories in "new yorker," for god sake, of these teachers who are so horrific. they just place them in rubber rooms because they can't fire them. >> my daughter went to a public school. there were -- there's one case like that. i think there really was a rubber room. >> they already sent a shot across the bow of the teachers union, joe, off of central falls, rhode island, when they fired the entire staff. and arne duncan, to his credit, basically went along with it. >> right. >> by the way, i don't want great teachers or even good teachers to be fired for firing's sake. >> no, and i know you don't. >> but you can't talk to -- and again, this isn't about rich

kids. these are about the poorest kids in america. because i do agree with the president, i think it's been insane that we have been functioning with about 85% of our population working. while basically dismissing another 15%. we can fix that. and we've seen this in new orleans, in harlem across america. so that's why it's just so frustrating to see certain special interests stand in the way. >> what's so hard about it is to go to president clinton's idea of future preference that you sacrifice now for down the road. education is the ultimate issue in terms of future preference. you're literally -- you cannot see it right then. >> right. >> and so you have to invest in this. and a mature democracy has to figure out how to do that. the reason people should kick people in their presidents should kick people in their base is people in their base should be kicked to govern well on both sides. >> but the media rarely, if ever, clamors for republicans to

kick their base. it's always a test of democrats. >> ask the religious right about that. >> oh, my god. >> it doesn't happen. >> the right is always kicked. >> when is the right going to kick jim bunning? did they kick him today for holding up unemployment benefits? >> i think he's been kicked pretty well. >> this is the most jim bunning's been talked about in a long time. >> by the way, we've got to go to break, but jon meacham has a great cover on "newsweek" talking about democracy in iraq. it is a stunning story that we're going to get to after the break. and savannah guthrie, we'll be watching you and chuck coming up on "the daily rundown" right after "morning joe." >> they hate each other. >> the moment "morning joe" hands it over. savannah, thank you very much. >> sure. >> did you guys get -- total photo shop, still a green screen, they're miles apart. in just a few minutes -- >> new promo. exciting. >> thanks, savannah.

up next, a bad financial situation is getting worse for the u.s. postal service, and it could directly impact the way you get the mail. details next with nbc's tom costello. you're watching "morning joe" brewed by starbucks. (announcer) we're in the energy business. but we're also in the showing-kids- new-worlds business. and the startup-capital- for-barbers business. and the this-won't- hurt-a-bit business. because we don't just work here. we live here. these are our families. and our neighbors. and by changing lives we're in more than the energy business we're in the human energy business. chevron.

welcome back to "morning joe." the u.s. postal service is deep in the red, and the postmaster general is holding a news conference to announce a new business rolgds. tom costello is live with the story in washington, d.c. good morning. >> reporter: mika, do you write letters anymore? >> i wrote one last week. i write letters, yes. >> i think it's generational. i think some of us were told you've got to always write the thank-you note, right? but a lot of people, in fact, it's fair to say that most people today, according to the studies, are not writing nearly as much as they used to. so you can blame what's happening to e-mail, on the internet, on e-commerce, on e-banking. as a result of all of that, the post office is losing billions of dollars, getting worse every minute. and the postmaster general says in order for that model to

change, in order for them to survive, they have to change radical radically. that old adage about letter carriers staying on the job through snow, rain, heat or gloom of night doesn't make any mention of e-mail or weathering a 21st century great recession. today the postal service is in trouble, big trouble. in just four years, mail volume has dropped off a cliff. from 213 billion pieces delivered in 2006 to fewer than 170 billion projected for 2010. most lost to the internet. and the financial losses are mounting. $7 billion in the red by the end of this year. >> last year, the postal service lost money. it lost money in each of the previous two years and the projections going forward are not bright. >> reporter: not bright and likely to get far worse. the postal service has already said it may need to cut six-day-a-week service down to

five, close some post offices, raise rates, and restructure how it funds its retiree benefit programs. but all of that would require congress to sign off, and so far it's refused, while critics argue the entire postal service model is broken. >> without competition, how can anyone be efficient, how can they be interested in conserving consumers but when consumers have no choice by to use them. >> reporter: so the postmaster general today is likely to recommend, and this time with the force of some outside studies behind him, with recommend that they cut saturday delivery service. no more. that they also start closing inefficient post offices across the country and actually migrate in the grocery stores. but, again, congress gets the final word and we all know how functional congress is these days, mika. >> there's that problem. tom costello, thank you very much, live from washington. we'll be right back with harold ford jr., right here on "morning joe." ♪

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all righty. a live shot of times square in new york city and getting ready to return to "morning joe." and now allowed to make money again from nbc news, welcome, the chairman of the democratic leadership council, harold ford jr., back on the show. joe, bring him in. also with us -- he's still getting wired up. also on the set with us, along

with "newsweek's" jon meacham, professor of politics and african-american studies at princeton university and columnist for the nation magazine, melissa harris-lacewell. welcome back to "morning joe." it is the top of the hour. harold, welcome. >> good to see you. >> good to see you, honey. do i get a kiss this morning or have things changed? >> maybe with you, but not with me. >> we can't wait to hear your news and your decision. a lot going on. welcome back. it's so good to have you back. after months of speculation, it's over. >> so harold, what happened? why did you decide not to run? >> two reasons, one we would have won a primary, it would have been a close, tough, tough fight, brutal fight. the notion that liberals didn't accept me is just wrong. the problem is the fall is going to be a tough, tough fall for democrats across the nation. my belief is with a brutal primary campaign you emerge -- whoever emerges, whatever people's thoughts may be, you

strengthen a republican in a general election. the feeling across the state, we could have raised a lot of money. money wasn't an issue. >> so it wasn't mort. >> mort's a millionaire. i wish that for all new york. >> make all new yorkers billionaires. >> that would have been a winning one. >> i want to be a billionaire. you're speaking to me. >> the issue across the state is voters can't understand -- and you've written about this in the magazine -- why albany, washington, and new york in particular, and voters around the country, you see it in polling data, why is it so broken? why can't it work? i watched evan thomas on the show yesterday. evan was just wrong. evan blamed the people for the lack of leadership in washington, saying the people lacked courage. you've written extensively, both of you have, you in particular, jon, about american leaders who have done just that. they've led. we have not only a leadership void in washington and albany, but i think across all political spectrums -- >> but, harold, the democratic establishment that was trying to

beat you up from the beginning. >> they did. >> why did the democratic establishment work so aggressively against you. >> joe, you and i understand establishments. you ran against one in florida. when i ran for congress, my dad was my predecessor, but the entire establishment was against me. i was 15 to 20 points down in the last three weeks of my race for congress. so we understand running against establishments. the press was caught up about carpet baggers, the voters aren't concerned about that. at the end of the day, i made a conclusion and made a calculation that i'm a democrat. i'm an independent democrat and the last thing i want to see is for this seat to go republican. i share a lot of views of yours. we probably differ slightly, if not majorly, in who should be in the house majority and the senate. this seat could decide the majority in the house and the senate. nevada, illinois, the new ones just reported yesterday, wisconsin.

i say to senator gillibrand, to senator schumer, to senator reid and the leadership in the senate, if you can't hold massachusetts, new york, i promise you, voters across this state, from upstate to down state, i spent seven weeks traveling and listening and learning, and i can assure you voters don't know the junior senator, they can't name a positive outcome from her, which means one simple thing. she will be labeled for the failures of washington, the failures of albany. and if we don't find a way to change that, the party when it's good and went it's strong, democrats, our country is better. right now the party is not strong. >> i saw your op-ed this morning, harold, and you were speaking the way democrats used to speak on economic issues. my family, democratic for generations. my mother said that when fdr died, they really thought the world was coming to an end. they voted for truman -- but at some point, they peeled away,

not on social issues, but just on high taxes and reckless spending. harold, you were talking like a pro business democrat and you have been branded as some right-wing nut by the democratic establishment. maybe that explains why they are doing so poorly right now across the america. >> i'll tell you why they were scared, and i said it in the piece. they're scared because they're unsettled how angry this electorate is. for anyone to believe our normal approach, our conventional status quo approach will win this election, we are kidding ourselves. be it in the bronx, be it in brooklyn, be it in queens, be it in utica, be it in rochester, be it in syracuse. in syracuse, my visit there yesterday, in the seven weeks that i paid for my way to get around the state, i was there more times than kirsten gillibrand has been there since she's been a united states senator. i know you guys had coffee and lunch and i wish her the best as she tries to figure this out, but i'll tell you, there's a lot

of work for democrats to do and even a lot more work for her to do. and my belief is the winner of that primary, if we'd had a brutal, negative primary, would be disadvantaged in the fall. i have to tell you, this is not the right time to do it. >> jon meacham? difference between tennessee and new york? >> not a lot in the sense that people want the same outcomes. there's no doubt, tennessee's a far more conservative place. there's no doubt that certain issues, social issues resonate differently in tennessee than they do in new york. but, unfortunately, in new york, the progressive political -- democratic political movement has been defined along two or three issues. marriage equality, chi support, and i might add, senator gillibrand and i have the same position. her conversion was overnight, mine was over a two or three-year period. you may want embrace me, but for people like me, marriage equality won't enjoy the status

it does today. not with women who work in health clinics in queens. their concern are health costs, their concern are jobs and the economy. so i'm not deterred or discouraged by this at all. we'll continue to move forward and i hope another opportunity presents itself. >> i want to follow up with what you just said. because this is one of the most -- one of the things that's the most dysfunctional about american politics, and it's been this way for the past 20 years or so. the issues that really separate and divide the political classes are abortion and gay marriage. and i remember a week after katrina hit, my former chief of staff in congress, a very conservative guy, a pro-life guy, he is what you would expect from the deep south. he called me up and he said, you know what, look at these idiots on tv, talking about on every single level. you know, we sit back -- and he said, we're just as guilty as

democrats. we sit back and before we let anybody move forward, we check the boxes, where are they on abortion and where are they on gay marriage? we ask about the fourth or fifth block down, are they a leader? it's insane. you know, i -- there is so much heat generated over the abortion issue, you and i know this, that's all people love to talk about. the press is obsessed with it, the base is obsessed with it. you go to washington, d.c., and maybe one vote out of 5,000 has something to do on the margins of abortion, but we don't talk about jobs in brooklyn, we don't talk about jobs in rochester. here you have in rochester one of the most high-tech areas in america, those jobs have withered away and we're talking about gay marriage. we're talking about abortion. let's talk about it. but obsess about it to this degree? it is insanity. >> first, i guess i want to take

issue with a couple of things. one is the notion i hear just percolating underneath your comments that the people pressing those issues are reproductive rights or of marriage equality or primarily folks that are on the left, using these issues to divide. i would suggest that, in fact, what we see in the transition, for example, if the deep south to so many voters going republican was a conscious decision on the part of the gop in the 1960s, '70s, and consolidated under reagan to use race, social issues, and taxes as a way to divide working class whites from their own economic interests. now, to say that reproductive rights are just sort of a throwaway box to check would be sort of a failure to recognize how important reproductive rights issues are to women's health. to claim that well, you know, gay marriage is just sort of a marginal issue is fine. unless, of course, you are the person who can't get married, who can't have full citizenship. >> i will guarantee you that a gay man in brooklyn right now is a lot more concerned about the

fact that he is unemployed, that he doesn't have work, that he doesn't know how to pay his rent -- let me finish -- that he is much more obsessed over his economic issues. how does he take care of his partner, who may be sick in the hospital right now -- >> well, part of what will be hard for him when he can't be married to his partner. >> but i'm saying, the obsession of it, that marginalizes and that narrows the focus. >> i believe -- >> let me just say, let me just say, my position, just so stupid out there don't misread it -- >> and the twitter goes wild. >> and the twitter goes wild. seriously, talk about these issues if you want, i don't think washington should be involved in gay marriage. i don't think it should be involved in abortion. i think we should focus on jobs, i think we should focus on taking care of people in queens and brooklyn, if we're talking about new york state. >> the mayor of rochester -- >> but the obsession over these social issues is corrosive to the national debate. >> the most important issue in the civil rights arena today is

education. most mayors across this state in the big cities are fighting with their state legislature -- or the state legislature and the city council over who gets control over the schools, who has accountability. duffy in rochester, minor in syracuse, brown in buffalo having these challenges. i would contend, if we're concerned about reproductive rights, to go back to your point, professor, the senate health bill imposes the most fundamental measures on abortion -- >> i have been deeply critical of these -- >> but you support the bill? >> oh, well, actually, i am deep, deeply critical and have written regularly about what it feels like to have precisely the kind of democrats that you are on the right who have been pulling this agenda, even as we have a democratic majority -- >> but i was opposed to it. >> oh, no, i understand that your positions have moved on these -- >> no, no, my positions have never moved on choice. i've always been pro-choice. it was an effort to try to -- my only point this, put me out of it. i'm not your problem.

you're supporting a health business that imposes the most fundamental restrictions on abortion that we have seen in the last 50 years. >> i absolutely supported you in tennessee. i'm glad to see you're not running in this race in new york. although i've said here on this show -- >> you know why she supported you in tennessee? because she's anti-choice. >> no! it would have moved tennessee to the left, but it would have moved new york to the right. that isn't this hard. >> that makes me sad. why is it you're against reproductive rights? >> everybody can't have it both ways, but then again, i'll let you all reconcile on whatever side of the party they have to reconcile it. but the reality is the overwhelming majority of the people in the new york are worried about education, jobs, and the economy. and if we don't find our way back there, we will find our way to the minority. and that's the concern that i have. >> let me bring you in here, jon meacham. every time i say -- and, listen, i, i'm not saying that abortion is not an important issue. it is. and every time i say what i just said, i offend people who are pro-life and believe with all

their heart that that's critical, and those who feel as strongly about pro-choice issues. but i have seen firsthand, as have you, abortion, guns -- >> god. >> yeah, god, and a lot of social -- a lot of these social issues, gay marriage, being used as wedge issues by both sides. it's not the -- i could say the same thing about pro-choice people in urban areas, using abortion to make sure somebody like harold ford jr. can't win statewide in new york, or i think bobby kennedy jr., i think, is pro-life as well. you can say this. if you are pro-life and a democrat in new york state, you can't win. and so i just -- it seems to me that these social issues divide more than they should and they have had a very corrosive impact on american politics over the past 40 years.

is that fair to say? >> i think that modern politics began -- and harold and i have talked about this before -- in january of 1973. the day lyndon johnson died was the day roe versus wade happened, was announced. and my favorite story about this is a young minister in lynchburg, virginia, was reading the paper, reading johnson's obituary and reading the abortion decision story and decided he had to get into politics, which was a reversal of a position he had held after bloody sundayy in 1965, when he preached a sermon saying that ministers of the gospel should stay out of the street and out of politics. jerry folwell changed his mind in january of 1973. from that moment, harold has used the phrase before about the abortion fact set, that is, if you don't get past that with someone, then you've lost them

forever. i think that any single issue is probably not good for the country. it's not good for the person for whom that matters the most. now, quickly, i understand that if you disagree with a politician about the definition of human life, the rest is commentary. that can be true. but in a democracy that's served us well, we have found a way to have these arguments in a civil, usually a civil way, and in a way that is pretty settled law. what surprises me, endlessly, is the potency of these issues, because as a clinical matter, leaving aside whether harold should be in the senate or not, why would people who are very pro-choice or for marriage equality not welcome your change or your transformation, however you want to put it? >> i'm actually pro-choice.

i changed on marriage equality, but it's almost as though everything is like nerf ball, it's like a game. if you come out here and make this case that this is important, this is critical, and guess what, when the bright young politicians in the united states changes his mind, whoa, let's kill him, let's attack him. what's really serious here, is it the game or is it the substance? >> and you know, mika, on these social issues that we're talking about, i understand how people can become as impassioned as they become on it. >> i also understand how people can evolve. >> yeah, well, i don't evolve. >> i applaud senator gillibrand for changing her position, no matter how she did it. >> well, she evolved in a week. >> whatever the amount of time. just like there are senators who are evolving on the health bill, do we say, no, we don't want you, because last week you were not in support of it? of course no, we embrace them.

i welcome people who can sit and listen, confront new evidence, reflect, enjoy debate, appreciate debate and be affected by them. but the issues here, when we finish this, the number one issue on people's minds, jobs and taxes. >> it's always that way. and as jon meacham said, modern politics really did start when roe v. wade -- roe v. wade, by the way, didn't legalize abortion, it federalized abortion. and when it federalized abortion, then all of the special interests that cared about this issue alone went to washington, d.c., and it has divided america since january of 1973. and jon's exactly right. you have, and i would say more so in the democratic party, ironically, than the republican party, which has always been called closed minded on abortion, which is laughable. you can be a republican in just about any state and be pro-choice and be elected. as a democrat, there may be

about five states where you can be pro-life and get elected. new york is certainly not one of them. and i would just say, this is why it's happened. we elect leaders and say -- >> this is why katrinas happened. >> the response to katrina? >> this is take a deep breath. i'm not going folwell on you. >> simmer down. >> i know you would love to have something -- >> i'm sorry, i just -- >> no, as i said before, the lack of leadership. this is why dunces become governors. this is why idiots become mayor. >> because of the social issue or because of -- because people become president because of their parental relationships and a sort of closed system that doesn't encourage sort of a broad grown up of people to get into the game? look, what i respect -- what i respect so much about harold ford is that he runs for

office -- >> come on. >> you've heard me say before, i think running for office is the most important thing we can do for our country, to take the time to articulate the political issues. but to suggest that this was primarily about social issues that put george bush, and therefore, brownie in fema, and therefore that response, i think is a -- quite a leap. >> i will now finish my point. and i wish the republican party would be as open and democratic as a little "d," as the democrats and we could elect people that have never had any connections, like al gore. who also ran against george w. bush in 2000. but great point taken. anyway, the problem is, we elect people based, again, on checking off the ideological boxes. again, we don't get to whether they're good leaders or not until we're four or five or six points down. and i'm just saying on these social issues, i know it's important to the right, i know it's important to the left, but as harold ford said, and this is a critical -- this is what washington doesn't understand and we've been saying it for a

year, mika, it's about jobs. it's about, can i take care of my family? it's about, who is going to lead america into the 21st century? and can they do without being overly ideological? it's back to burke. it's back to what we were -- it's about what works. not checking off the ideological boxes and being dogmatic. >> and knowing in your gut what is at the forefront of this country's concern. >> and let me say like melissa too, it's about being democratic with a little "d." >> and having a good conversation. >> like al gore. >> speaking of a good conversation, it is very good to have you back among friends, harold. >> absolutely. glad to be home. >> i love it. >> i've got to give her the last word here. do you get my -- do you understand my point, though? >> i believe in big tent politics in our parties. and i also believe that the issues of leadership go beyond ideology. but i also think we cannot divide issues like reproductive health and marriage equality

from, for example, jobs -- >> or a health bill. >> or a health bill. it is what i spend my time doing, is pressing back against -- >> let me just say, melissa, afterwards we're going to go to the side and we're going to have a prayer, because i want to pray with you -- >> we're going to thank god that a.c.o.r.n. was cleared. >> and also, thank god that a.c.o.r.n. was cleared. we're going to pray you'll be a bit more progressive on reproductive rights. very concerned. >> yes, i know, i can tell. >> you're from tennessee. can we bow our heads? >> as my good episcopalian friend said, that is the next step right before -- just pure unadulterated atheist. >> but we have very good -- >> isn't it good to have harold back? >> we can go to break. harold, it's great to have you back. >> glad to be back. glad to be home. >> i like it.

>> home being new york. >> new york, new york, baby. we're going to be playing "new york, new york" every time you walk out. and my good friend, collier meryl, he had a baby, didn't get married until he was 48, i think, and had a baby at 49. >> oh, he's going to be so tired. >> i'm tired just thinking about it. we've got to go. >> harold, thank you. we are so over. pete is in big trouble in the control room. >> melissa, thank you very much. >> prayer meeting. >> we'll bring you around. >> i'm a big fan of prayer, actually. >> you'll evolve on this issue. coming up, is senator barbara boxer showing signs of vulnerability? she has some new competition in california. politico is next. also, the whistle-blower that went unheard. we'll talk to the man who cracked bernie madoff's ponzi scheme years before his arrest. he's my hero. you're watchingmonger "morning-

>> i thought i was your hero? >> sure -- brewed by starbucks. hey!

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welcome back to "morning joe." we are going to be talking to jim vandehei, the executive editor of politico in just a moment. but first, jon meacham, your cover of "newsweek," tell us about it. "victory at last: the emergence of a democratic iraq" and looking ahead to elections there. >> yes, the liberal media has done this, just keeping score for those at home. our reporting has shown, in a piece written by chris dickey, that, in fact, there is a level of stability and a kind of

political culture taking hold that's a lot like what we just talked about, in the sense that there are -- there's a core of both sunni and shia politicians who want to be politicians, as opposed to insurgents or warriors. and they are creating a culture of deal making. and suddenly power, authority, the ability to deliver basic services and security has become an organizing value. so the election's on sunday. one step back, remember, we did fight a war in iraq, which is virtually has not been discussed in most of the year for all the obvious reasons, but what general petraeus did and what president bush came to does seem to have worked. >> how did this happen? >> i think that -- what the reporting shows is that enough people got tired of an

insurgency in which there was no way out, even for the insurgents. >> enough iraqis. >> enough iraqis. >> have the foreigns, for the most part, been pushed out, other than the 150,000 or so americans -- >> other than the americans. >> al qaeda in iraq. do they exist anymore. >> they exist. the larger force is the iranians, obviously. and interestingly, iran seems to have overplayed its hand and has tried to push in iraq and the shia in iraq has pushed back. and you see that maliki has won majorities i think in 1 out of 19 provinces. you're just seeing some democratic institutions -- lower case "d" -- taking hold. this is not upmonochel lowe, no atheenian democracy, but much better than what we had. >> i don't want to get too deep in the weeds, but you talk about

iran, a lot of people concerned about this going the way of iran. but you have sistani, is sistani still the powerful player among the shia who basically said, we don't want to go iran's way? >> that's exactly right. and you talk about monochelo, i'm not saying sistani's jefferson, but if there were a father of new iraq, it would be sistani, right? >> that's right. and we have to see what happens to maliki, who gets a very bad rap, but let's see what happens. >> he's keeping it together. nobody expected that. it's a stunning story. >> it really is. i recommend it. and it's reported. it's not just -- we're not just sitting around popping off about it. >> it's not like "morning joe." you don't just say what comes off the top of your head. >> what happens if three or four months down the road they can't put a government together? >> then we will say, "victory still to come." >> "victory at last" next year. >> here with us now, executive editor of politico, jim

vandehei, who is here with a quick look at the morning playbook. we'll start in california. the person who is thinking of challenging senator barbara boxer. >> as a slate columnist, mickey cost who's pretty well known to a lot of people here in washington, i don't know what kind of following he has out in california, but if we were to jump into the race, the last thing democrats need is an irritant in california, anything that makes that race harder to win. you just had harold ford on talking about how new york could be a difference maker in who controls the majority. that only happens if you start to lose a lot of states that democrats probably should win. and california would be in that bucket of states that they should win, but it's plausible they could lose in a bad political environment. so that's why you've got to start paying more and more attention to movement in states that we weren't paying attention to, say, two or three months ago. another one is in wisconsin, where former governor tommy thompson, who's now a health care lobbyist, is thinking about running again in wisconsin. if we were to run, he was a very popular two-term governor. he probably could overcome the

lobbyist stigma because people know him and know him from his tenure in wisconsin. if he runs, that gives russ feingold a big old headache and a big potential to lose that race. so when you have so much unpredictability in the political system right now, these seats that otherwise seemed untouchable a couple months ago are now very touchable and very -- >> isn't russ feingold still pretty popular in wisconsin? >> he's still pretty popular. russ feingold is one of the guy who comes here and does exactly what he said he was going to do. he's kind of his own guy, often irritates his own party by taking stands that they don't like, that tends to -- my people from wisconsin, that tends to be the type of politicians that we have produced over the last 100 years. so wisconsin likes that. but tommy thompson was very, very popular as governor and people remember him from his days as governor, which were good times for wisconsin, so that could help. >> oshkosh's own. >> that's right? he's from oshkosh, wisconsin. >> you're on fire today, joe. coming up, no one would listen.

what? the story of the whistle-blower who uncovered bernie madoff's ponzi scheme ten years before the rest of the world knew who he was. that's next on "morning joe." ♪

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welcome back to "morning joe." it is just after 8:30 on the east coast. time for a quick look at some of today's top stories. government forces in chile face another day of extraordinary challenges as police and soldiers work to contain the chaos following saturday's massive earthquake. 723 people confirmed dead. a curfew has extended in the country's second largest city following widespread looting. >> plan to impose new regulations on wall street appears to be gaining ground with senate negotiators. around the proposal, a new agency would be housed in the federal reserve to oversee everything from mortgages to credit cards. while the proposal falls short of president obama's earlier demands, the white house says the agency would still be able to act with independent authority. and the race for california governor is set to get a little more crowded with jerry brown expected to announce his candidacy today. that's according to the "los

angeles times". the 71-year-old democrat has already served eight years in the governor's mansion from 1975 to 1983. he is eligible to run again because current term limits were not in place when brown was serving as governor. could get interesting. up next, the man who, of course, tried to expose bernie madoff more than a decade ago. he's next on "morning joe."

mr. madoff was one of the most powerful men on wall street. he owned a prestigious broker's firm. he and his brother held numerous top-level positions on the most influential industry association boards. clearly, the s.e.c. was afraid

of mr. madoff. i gift wrapped and delivered the largest ponzi scheme in history to them and somehow they couldn't be bothered to conduct a thorough and proper investigation because they were too busy on matters of higher priority. if a $50 billion ponzi scheme doesn't make the s.e.c.'s priority list, then i want to know who sets their priorities. >> all right. here he is. i've talked about this guy. very excited to meet -- >> you love him. >> i love him. with us now, the man who blew the whistle on bernie madoff's $65 billion ponzi scheme but was ignored by the s.e.c. for ten years, harry markopolos. he details his story in the new book "no one would listen: a true financial thriller." we're very happy to have you on the show today. i want to start backwards. first of all, lacking now at the situation, given everything you've brought to the table and what you've witness with eberni madoff and others, has anything

changed at the s.e.c.? >> yes, they've got religion, especially when it comes to ponzi schemes. now they're a high priority. >> would this have happened now? >> they take ponzi schemes very seriously. >> you think things are better? >> they know they can't drop things through the cracks when things are gift wrapped on a silver platter. >> which you did. >> let's talk about the change. let's say you talk them all to fenway park, could they find the pitcher's mound now? >> probably not. they still need more training. it's a crawl, walk, run, they still need additional training. >> harry, how is it in a ponzi scheme so huge that you get a sniff of it several years ago, many years ago, and you keep knocking on the door, trying to convince people to open the door and say take a peak at this. it's so obvious. and off the title of your book, "nobody listens," how does that happen? >> it was so big, if this was

the largest hedge fund in the universe, and i'm coming in several times, that's why the s.e.c. ignored me and that's why the press ignored me repeatedly. >> you tried to bring your story to the s.e.c. what was the first attempt like? what was it you brought to the table? because you went several times. >> i came in with six major red flags, had a lot of suspicious performance numbers and math modeling. it was only about eight pages long. i met with the top regional enforcement director, a lawyer, unfortunately, he didn't understand a word i said past "hello." >> what was his response? what were you told? >> well, if blank looks were dollar bills, i would have come out a wealthy man. unfortunately, he didn't understand anything about finance and he was in a position of great responsibility to enforce securities regulations, which he never did. and he went into private practice now, so he can't be fired. in fact, no one at the s.e.c. has been fired over this, only promoted. >> you get the thing going and people start talking about and eventually it unravels, but

during that process, there's a fear factor involved, involving you. i mean, talk to us about that, about what you thought might happen to you. >> well, the first two years, it was only career risk, because my employer didn't know i was doing it along with two other employees at the firm. after i went to europe in 2002 and i saw the offshore connections, the dirty money crowd and it was extensive and i realized that madoff was probably bigger in europe than he was here in the u.s., that's when it got scary, because offshore funds are one stepped removed from organized crime. and if madoff was victimizing organized crime rings, then he was either criminally insane or an organized crime guy himself, i wasn't sure which, but he had a lot to protect. >> and you were afraid maybe that they would come after you? >> for that kind of money, people will do bad things to others. and certainly madoff was a financial predator of the worst sort. he had wiped out tens of thousands of people, thousands of family have been affected. he would no mercy for my family. i really feared for my life, really in 2002. the first two years, it started

out very innocently. it didn't seem dangerous at all. >> what happened when you woke up and saw this on the front page of "the new york times"? what were your thoughts? >> tremendous anger. anger that i couldn't get this across to the s.e.c. and that there were so many individual victims. i never realized that people were all in 100% invested with madoff, and that hit me like a punch to the gut. >> that you saw entire life savings wiped out, and charities savaged. >> yes. that really hit me. i had trouble sleeping. i didn't sleep for months. and then a few days later, i lost a friend to suicide over this, terry devillehuchet, two days before christmas. that put me over the edge, emotionally. >> it seems with your journey, it's one in which you have a very clear, clear faith in right and wrong. and yet, this is a world in which that can get blurred. it never did for you, but there are so many others that maybe it did for. you're saying no one at the s.e.c. got fired, how are things better? how have things changed? how is that possible?

>> well, they've re-disorganized, along functional lines. >> it's like "morning joe" staff meetings. okay, guys, we're going to re-disorganize. >> but we don't have billions of dollars at stake. >> they're underfunded and only getting $1.3 billion this year. we have people on wall street, individual hedge fund managers who make more than that. so they're poorly equipped with i.t., don't have the resources, and certainly don't have the right staff, and they need to compensate better. if you pay peanuts, you end up with monkeys. >> who do you want to play you in the movie? >> i don't get to choose this stuff. it's a hollywood thing. whoever wants it that will do a good job. i'm looking for equality and integrity, so that will eliminate most the people in hollywood. >> harry markopolos, thank you very much, the book is "no one would listen." thanks very much. the very best to you. coming up next, inside the letterman love triangle. "vanity fair" has the late-night

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these may be signs of ttp, a rare but potentially life-threatening condition, reported sometimes less than 2 weeks after starting plavix. other rare but serious side effects may occur. new york, you know, we have a governor here in the state. and it used to be eliot spitzer, and then he had to leave office.

there was some problem with some horse, so now the lieutenant governor, david paterson, he took over and he announced over the weekend that he will not seek election, he will not run for the office of governor, and then we got a call earlier today from jay who said he had nothing to do with it. >> all right! david letterman. here with us now, contributing editor of "vanity fair," mark seal, who wrote in the latest issue about the bizarre love triangle between robert halderman, late-night staffer, stephanie burkett, and comedy kid david letterman. i have to say, i worked with joe -- >> you're having trouble getting into this segment, mika. there are three players here. >> i probably shouldn't, yeah -- >> by the way, mika asked me to drive this, because she knows the extortionist. alleged extortionist.

we're not judging him. come on, it happens. so, anyway, let's talk. you say there are three unique characters here. their own traits led to this thing just coming together and blowing up. let's start with the late-night king of comedy, david letterman. you say self-loathing. >> one of the most self-loathing -- by his own admission, one of the most self-loathing people on the planet. >> how could that be? >> i don't know. he has this incredible charisma, people love him, especially people that work for him, they want to be around him, they want to be with him. but it's not just the people that work for him, look at the women who come on his show. >> you say women love him. >> women love him, obviously. >> you say he's self-loathing, he says that he's always miserable. >> yeah. but he has this magnetismagneti. she said there would be one woman who would be sitting at her desk and the hair on her arms would raise up and turn around and dave would be behind her.

>> that happens when mike barnicle comes in, but for completely different reasons. let's talk about stephanie burkett, if you're a huge letterman fan, you know her. she was on the show for, my god, ten years, and just love her. what happened here? how did she get --? >> she came on the show as a writer's intern, in the intern department, became dave's assistant, one of his assistants and then one day he called up to the office and said, will somebody tape "jackass," the movie, and all of a sudden the chemistry exploded. >> it's like a scene out of "casablanca," will you tape "jackass," the next thing you know, they're together. >> we'll always have "jackass." >> like we'll always have "morning joe." let's talk about the alleged extortionist. he was involved with stephanie burkett in a personal relationship. >> he was. they were living together in joe's house out in connecticut

and planning a family together, hoping to have kids. you know, he's a news producer, covered conflicts in 86 countries, very accomplished, working with dan rather. he was the go-to guy -- >> yeah, he was. >> mika says a great background, but they were thinking about getting married, having a family, living in connecticut. and then, reportedly, reported in your story, he found the diary. >> according to his friend, dr. bob arnot, he found stephanie's diary which she poured out her love for dave, and he told her to leave, and she said, no, i want to stay, the money i'm making on the "late show" is important to our future together and then came the seminal event when halderman is standing outside his face and dave's $100,000 tesla comes rolling into the street with stephanie. >> and he does a one-page script he's selling to letterman, looks an awful lot like letterman's life. >> exactly. the one-page script features a

protagonist who has a lot of similarities to our -- >> will this ever go to trial? because if it does, david's got to testify, and he doesn't want to do that. >> we don't know. we don't know what's going to happen. they were supposed to announce a trial date very soon. so we'll see what happens next. >> mark seal, thank you, the article in the latest issue of "vanity fair," thanks very much for coming on the show. up next, what, if anything, did we learn today? i keep track of my entire business on this spreadsheet... and all of these. paid invoices go right here. bang! - that hasn't been paid yet. - what? - huh-uh. - all my business information is just a phone call away-- to my wife... who's not answering. announcer: there's a better way to run your business. intuit quickbooks online organizes your business in one place. it easily creates invoices and helps you stay on top of your business anytime, anywhere. this is way better.

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how much time do we have? >> moments ago, that is secretary of state hillary clinton arriving in chile, bringing aid to the country, devastation there. we'll be following there that story throughout the day. >> mike barnicle, what'd you learn today? >> i learned that dave letterman is a love machine! >> oh, come on! >> the hair stands up on the neck, written in "vanity fair". >> ridiculous. >> i love letterman. >> i do too. >> i won't say my hair has ever risen up on my neck. >> women do. >> we've had reports, mika, when he's in central park, barnicle's in central park, it's like women feels like someone's watching them for good reason, he's

behind those glasses. >> the wraparound glasses. >> i have learned that your friend, collier meryl has reproduced and i'm not -- i don't know -- >> that's something, yeah. >> congratulations. >> he didn't get married until he was 48, had a baby at 49. >> has reproduced. >> it's a thought, it's a concept. he's a great guy. >> that's what mika says. if you're a liberal, then you've had a child. if you're a republican, then you've spawned. >> he has gotten married and had a baby. >> congratulations to collier meryl and little collier meryl, probably the 15th or 16th. thank you so much for watching us and thank you for being patient with me. mike, if it's way too early, what time is it? >> i'll tell you what time it is. it's time for "morning joe" if it's way too early, but now it's time for chuck and savannah. america's second biggest state goes to the