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president obama hopes a trip to the hilda will turn tomorrow's health care vote in his favor. a live report straight ahead. plus, weather woes. rising river water has lots of folks holding their breath while others are dealing with a winter hangover. just in time for the first day of spring, a snowstorm in the plains. i'm meteorologist mike seidel in oklahoma city. more on the storm and its impacts and where it is headed coming up. and grounded in reality. an airline strike leaves travel plans for thousands up in the air. good morning, everyone. i'm alex wit and welcot here on saturday. just a few hours before president obama's expected to arrive on capitol hill, it is a very busy saturday there. these are live pictures of the house rules committee where they are setting the terms for tomorrow's health care vote. nbc's luke russert is live for us on capitol hill. luke, what happened here with this 11:00 a.m. appointment we had to hear from antiabortion

democrat bart stupak but now he's postponed the press conference. what do you know about this? >> there's certain lay lot of rumors flying around here on capitol hill. but an aide to mr. stupak said it was mainly a scheduling conflict, not necessarily a policy conflict. negotiations are ongoing between mr. stupak and the democratic leadership. another democrat i spoke to speculated perhaps that means they reached some sort of deal. haven't heard any other confirmation on that. as of right now, negotiations are ongoing between mr. stupak and the democratic leadership on whether he will ultimately support health care reform. some say there could be 12 pro-life democrats, others say it is closer to three or four right now to get on-board in support of health care reform. >> stupak has said he will not support this bill. can't do it unless it contains more stringent antiabortion language. right now the house's commit cha chairwoman says there will be no separate vote on abortion

language. how do you reconcile these to? >> mrs. slaughter has said over the past two or three days, she's been very vocal that nothing else will be done to placate mr. stupak. he is trying to get what is called an enrollment resolution essentially a separate bill that would be passed by the house that instructs the senate this is how the house feels about the abortion language, and that the senate should use this bill that they have passed almost as a corrections bill, shall we say, would have no life in the senate. barbara boxer has been very, very vocal against mr. stupak's language, and could -- if things were to occur in a certain way, could really be harmful to the overall passage of the legislation. >> okay. well give us a shout and come back on if you find out exactly what's going down with regard to this whole thing. >> the theme of the day, they're cautiously optimistic, right around that magic 216 number.

all indicators are fighting yes. >> i'm sure they won't take the vote unless they have the 216 in the pocket. >> correct. >> thank you very much. despite more than a year of debate, many americans are left wondering what's actually in had health care reform bill. joining me now, ed o'keefe, political reporter for the washingtonpost.com. you should have sat right here at the desk with me. anyway, let's talk more about this legislation. which is going to expand health care to a huge segment of the american public. if the bill passes, ed, how many additional people will be covered? >> it will cover roughly -- mandate that roughly 94%, 95% of americans will have to have insurance coverage. that will be through an extension of medicaid basically. offering tax credits to people who might not be able to afford coverage currently. >> now, people are going to be required to buy coverage beginning in 2014. how is that going to work? will the government be policing

insurance company roll sheets? how are they going to know who's buying? >> that part's more confusing but certainly there will be penalties people would have to pay, basically a percentage of their income, that by 2016 would be be about 2% of their income. there would be exemptions over the course of this for native americans, people with religious objections, people who can show genuine financial hardship, but they are going to be imposing penalties on you if you cannot find a way to either pay for it for yourself or get an employer to help you pay for it. >> the house is considering key fixes to the senate bill, including delaying taxes on the high costs, those cadillac insurance plans or moving special provisions for individual states. was this a must-do for the democratic leadership to get a win over the house? >> absolutely. you don't want to be favoring states like louisiana and nebraska over other states that have vulnerable lawmakers in them. every member of congress is sent to washington to bring home the bacon in one way or another. if you see one state getting a big deal versus others that are not getting it, there was an understanding that they had to pull those things back.

the louisiana deal pretty much appears to be surviving because they have those genuine problems after hurricane katrina. but other deals similar deals have been pulled out simply because other lawmakers said i just can't support that. >> last question. pre-existing conditions. insurers will no longer be able to refuse coverage. is that for sure, like there's nothing that's going to be an argument about that. >> yeah. after a year of disagreement, this is the one thing -- one of very few things that everyone has been able to agree on, that that's no longer going to be allowed or tolerated at all. that's the easy part. i think the difficult part we're seeing is issues about abortion, as luke was talking about earlier, questions about which deals are being cut for which states. and then of course, concerns over this past week about how this thing will get paid for. but that is the one thing, pre-existing conditions, that people have said basically from the start we want none of that anymore. >> okay, ed o'keefe, come back any time and sit with me next time. >> i'd love to. >> all right. thank you very much. msnbc will have live

coverage all day tomorrow as the house prepares to take this historic vote. keep it right here on msnbc sunday for the final round of the health care battle. police have arrested a suspect for allegedly making racist comments over the public address system at a walmart store in new jersey. a male voice came over the intercom on sunday and calmly announced, "all black people leave the store now." the store manager apologized immediately. details of the arrest will be announced a bit later on today. british airways cabin crews are now on strike after they failed to reach an agreement during contract talks. thousands of flights over the next three days have been canceled and those passengers notified. british airways hopes to operate about 65% of its international flights using leased planes and outside crews. the first day of spring kicks off with some wild weather this weekend. a fierce snowstorm that dropped as much as 20 inches on parts of colorado front range is now taking aim at the plains. that storm is now targeting oklahoma and the texas panhandle. meanwhile, residents in north dakota and minnesota are bracing

for more flooding because the red river is still rising. it is expected to crest tomorrow. nbc's kevin tibbles is live in moorhead, minnesota keeping a very close eye on the river's comings and goings. what's the situation like this morning? the river coming higher or you think it is going away and receding? >> reporter: well, it is still rising, alex. but the good news is that none of that snow you were talking about, none of the precipitation, has fallen in these parts, at least up until now. that means that they've already announced that the crest of the red river, which is just behind me here, is going to be happening some time tomorrow. probably in the morning. it is going to be a lot less than it was last year when it reached those record numbers. it is going to be about 37 1/2 feet this year, and that is even lower than they originally predicted. the colder weather that moved in later in the week means that there was a lot of freezing going on. that means the snow wasn't melting as quickly, and that means the water really hasn't come up.

that is very good news for the residence here in moorhead, minnesota and fargo on the other side. they have already laid out about 1 million sandbags, sort of fighting this flood 30-pound sandbag at a time. they are very confident that they've done the job the right way this year. you can't really say that for folks who live in the rural areas, because the red river basin is so shallow, that when the river does come over the banks, it just spreads right out and there are a number of farming communities that are essentially cut off because the roadways have all been flooded. but here, now, what we can talk about is our friend and for the last time, we'll show him to you -- the stop sign who is still over my shoulder and still barely hanging on for dear life. >> yeah. but i haven't been able to detect an increase in the water. because your camera was showing that earlier to us. it looks like the water hasn't risen too, too much. i guess that's good news, as long as it just levels off and doesn't rise much further.

kevin,ky ask you real quick, behind the stop sign, are those sandbags or is that snow remnant? i can't see in the distance there. that's snow. okay. >> that's a snowbank. i don't know if you can pick up the sandbags over there, there's the light moving. >> there are the sandbags. >> they're over there. they've even got something back there called the aqua wall which is a new device that's actual lay plastic sort of wall that fits together, not like a lego, but you get the idea when i say that. it sort of sticks together and it is much more portable obviously than lugging around sandbags. they're trying that out here along the red river as well. they're pulling out all the stops. >> yeah. that sounds like it will be good if it works. >> and so am i. >> you're saying stop, i'm done. kevin tibbles, thanks so much. let's head west to the snow battering the plains today. nbc meteorologist bill karins is following the latest developments for us.

the question is who's getting hit the harde esthardest? >> not us. it's all good for us. everyone is too giddy about it. it is not fair. not nice. let's talk about what's going on in the middle of the nation. this is where winter is in full swing. it is a great shock to the system. we had the great warm-up in the 60s in the plains. now the windchill is it 25 in dallas, it is 9 in denver with snow on the ground. oklahoma city is snowing with a windchill of 14. everyone in the east, you better appreciate that, because our friend in the midwest are just dealing with what feels like the middle of winter. the snowstorm is not a huge snowstorm. you can see white on the map. that's just a little area of snow but it will cause significant impacts along the border right where arkansas, oklahoma, kansas and missouri all meet there. that's going to be the worst of it. some portions of pring field, just north of fayetteville, arkansas, someone in there is probably going to end up with 6 to 12 inches of snow before it is all said and done. oklahoma city still has moderate

snow, but from tulsa, in order ward on 44 is where the heaviest snow will fall through the remainder of today. as far as what's going on in the east here, 67. boston is our new leader on the map today. 67 degrees already at 11:00 in the morning. highs are only supposed to be in the upper 40s this time of year. today we'll end up into the low 70s. this is -- we are looking at end of may type weather in the middle of march. >> i think it is lunch outside by the ice rink. those two things don't go together. >> it is almost too hot in the sun, someone said. i laughed. >> the puddle rink today. totally true. ahead this hour, police in southern california are on heightened alert this morning and concerned for their own safety. we'll show you why. also ahead, the health care reform bill. what's in it for you? a closer look here on msnbc a closer look here on msnbc saturday. to your family. comfort and softness now, you can help downy

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at a quarter past, giving you a live look at the white house this morning where in just a few hours the president will be taking off from there, heading to capitol hill as part of his last-ditch effort to push through health care reform. he's meeting with members of his own party trying to lock up support of a few holdouts. in a few minutes, we'll look into how the legislation will affect your family. a new threat issued in southern california for an antigang police force. last night someone called 911 saying a police car would be blown up in the next 24 to 48 hours. the threat comes on the heels of several bobby traps set for the police, which included filling an office with deadly gas and attaching an explosive device to a police officer's unmarked car. a $200,000 reward is being offered for any information leading to an arrest in the case. president obama making the final push for health care overhaul as he heads to the

capitol to meet with the rank and file democrats ahead of tomorrow's scheduled vote. many are asking how will the changes affect me? joining me now in studio, vera gibbons, msnbc analyst. it is very complicated this reform project for many americans. bottom line, what's it mean to the average person out there? >> bottom line is everybody will be covered. even if you have a pre-existing condition, some sort of illness. we have 46 million americans who don't have coverage. this is covering every american. >> everyone must have coverage? >> for the most part, yes. something like 95% of americans will be required to have coverage for themselves, for their family. there is this exchange online where you with pick your plan, compare plans side by side but you must have coverage. if you don't, you'll be up against a penalty, 2% of your income or $695.

they want you to have coverage. you must have it. >> what about government sponsored insurance? how much would that cost people? from this is where it gets complicated. the way the bill is written there is no easy way to decipher this because there is different levels of coverage. some of the more comprehensive plans are obviously going to cost more. we don't really know what it is going to cost coming out of your wallet. one of the primary recipients are the low-income individuals because you have the extension of medicaid. that's going to cover those with incomes up to 135% of the poverty level, then the middle class of course is going to be subsidized by the government as well. again we don't know how much the government will subsidize the middle income americans, don't know whether it will be significant or worth their while they will though apparently help out the middle class to make sure this is affordable. >> they say to elected officials in congress, you have great health care insurance. apparently people can go on to the same plan and choose the same plan.

>> if they want to. you'll be able to compare plans side by side and see which one looks best based on you, your age and how healthy you are. >> what if you have a plan provided by your employer and are happy with it? >> about 60% of americans do get their coverage from their employer and for the most part are happy. technically you can stay on that plan, keep your doctors if you like them and everything else. the concern that people have is that if this government plan goes through, which it looking like it might actually, employers would be more inclined actually to issue this type of insurance because it is less expensive for them than the private insurance. we'll see what happens on that. any time you have reform like this, there are little loopholes. look at the credit card reform. look at all the gotchas that came out of that. it will be the same sort of scenario with this. >> where do consumers go for more information? when it comes to when this takes effect, there is a hopscotch thing here. >> some changes take effect in 2013. full effects probably not until

2018. healthreform.gov is a good site to go to, but it is a little tedious. but that's where you can go. >> vera gibb gons, thaons, than brlebron james makes histor on the hardwood. you're watching msnbc saturday. te phenomenon from nice 'n easy. rich color stunning high gloss and flawless gray coverage all in just 10 minutes a breakthrough so big, it won the most awards from beauty editors. they even say... "...perfect 10 has forever changed our opinion of at-home color" has it changed yours yet? perfect 10. the 10 minute, high gloss color that changes everything. from clairol. youtube didn't exist. and facebook was still run out of a dorm room. when we built our first hybrid,

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in my ear. and of course, times square. pretty as a picture here in new york city. we'll take it while we can get it. this weekend is the fifth annual jazz in the gardens festival in miami gardens, florida. like many start-ups, the music celebration struggled to get off its feet but both the city and the festival have come a long way in a short period of time. mark potter has more. >> reporter: the jazz in the gardens festival which begins later this afternoon has grown dramatically over the years and the host city, miami gardens, has also seen great changes. that city wasn't even incorporated until just seven years ago when it became the largest predominantly african-american city in florida, and like the festival, it's much different now. ♪ >> reporter: five years now after it began, the jazz in the gardens festival has become a signature event for miami gardens, florida. >> we love it. we love this festival like a

child because we've seen how far it's come. >> the groups, they look at this as a place to shine. >> reporter: in its first year, it only drew 2,500 people. many tickets were actually given away. this year, 40,000 visitors are expected. >> the draw is, it's the weather, it's miami gardens, it's the exciting lineup. >> reporter: like the festival, the city of miami gardens had its own rough start. >> gunned down in his neighborhood. >> two separate shootings. >> reporter: before it actually became a city seven years ago, was a hodge-podge of blighted, high-crime neighborhood in unincorporated miami-dade county. but under the leadership of mayor shirley gibson, the residents raised their own taxes, the city cleaned up the streets and attracted businesses. >> people really embraced this city. they are so proud to say that "i live in the city of miami gardens." >> reporter: the city also formed its own police department with 200 officers and major crimes have dropped more than 20%. and for this weekend, that

community now celebrates on stage. leon saunders, the event producer, says the festival is becoming so popular now that mayor artists and their managers are calling up asking if they can perform here. the lineup this year is a big one, including mary j. blige, john legend, robin thicke, david sanborn, cassandra wilson and ten others all performing here this weekend in miami gardens. we'll go back to our top story in just a moment with the latest on the health care reform holdouts. my boys make a house call on tomorrow's vote. also ahead, there could be trouble ahead next week for octomom that may force her to find a new address. you're watching msnbc saturday.n e to even more selection. and turn that savings swagger up full tilt. ♪ so when the time comes to bust open a can of doing... we've got all the tools for all the things we need to make 'em happen.

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it's msnbc saturday. i'm alex witt. as we approach half past the hour, here are your fast five headlines. president obama will head to capitol hill later today to speak to house democrats about

tomorrow's expected vote on health care reform. we'll have more on that in a moment for you. secretary of state hillary clinton returned to the states this morning after a two-day trip to moscow. she held talks with the russian prime minister vladimir putin on issues ranging from arms control to trade and iran. british airways cabin crews hit the picket lines for a three-day strike that's forcing the airline to cancel more than half of the 1,900 flights through monday. in monterey, mexico, soldiers battle suspected drug cartel gunmen yesterday killing two of them. they killed ammunition and hand grenades after the shoot-out. a.c.o.r.n. says it's on the verge of bankruptcy. they've lost federal funding amid controversy. those are your fast five headlines. president obama heading to capitol hill this afternoon to persuade wavering democrats to vote yes on the health care bill. a decision could come any time now from the house rules committee about whether democrats will indeed go ahead

with that controversial deem and pass tactic. nbc's mike viqueira is live at the white house for us. mike, good morning again. >> morning, alex. >> i'm looking through what you just sent to all of us here within nbc news about all the details of this, house rules committee and giving us the primer about that. what's going on? at the end of this meeting, what's it mean? >> first of all, shout out to shawna thomas and luke russert. n any way, bart stupak is the leader in the democratic caucus. he's among seven or eight who said they'll vote against the health care legislation, against their leadership, against the president because they feel that the current language in the senate bill they'll take up does not fully do enough to restrict federal funding of the abortion procedure. he had a press conference scheduled for 11:00. he called off his press conference at the last minute. there's all kind of

behind-the-scenes wrangling as house democrats try to get to the number of 216, the current majority of the house. when and if that vote comes up tomorrow, i'm telling you, everybody is on pins and needles. it is hand-to-hand political combat up there and it is getting very personal. you mentioned the rules committee, another controversy. the deem and pass rule, they don't want to vote directly on the senate bill. many democrats hate it. what they're going to do is assume that it is passed after they pass this -- another package of rules that will govern debate tomorrow. is that confusing? i'm sure it is. it is confusing to me, too. that's part of the problem and that's what democrats -- republicans are fighting against a great deal. earlier today, in the rules committee that decides on this procedure, very interesting exchange among some of the leaders there. let's have a listen. >> this process corrupts and prostitutes the system. we are about to unleash a cultural war in this country if

we use this process and don't allow the legitimate differences to be debated and hopefully moderated and compromised. >> i appreciate that you're the bluebird of happiness -- >> the bluebird of happiness. >> yes. and that somehow that we believe we can do this all lovely and sweetness and light, but we just don't have any evidence to prove that. >> okay. in short, she's saying we're playing hardball because we have no other choice, we have to do this deem and pass in one way or another. the president on a beautiful sunny day here in washington, nice day for a drive up to the capitol. he's going to be up there about 3:00 o speak to democrats, full democratic caucus. this comes after a week of intense pressure from the president, phone calls, meetings, aides say as many as 64, not counting the ones he may have had today. i'm sure he's in the white house making calls as well today, trying to pressure these last remaining democrats to come over to support this bill when and if it hits the floor tomorrow. i say "if" because they aren't

going to bring it up unless they're sure they have the votes to pass it. >> i'm listening to that bluebird of happiness sound bite. that's a really partisan committee. it is 9-4 democrats. you know, it is what it is. you know how i know that? because your primer. thank you very much, mike viqueira. you, like and who else was it? >> shawna. >> excellent. thank you for that. as the president focuses on tomorrow's vote, some members of congress are casting their eye on a different vote. this one months away. the fall's mid-term elections are fast approaching with the signs the health care debate may impact congressional races well into the future. let's bring in our boys, msnbc political analyst pat buchanan and democratic strategist peter fenn. hello, guys. >> morning again, alex. >> okay. so the president, peter, is he throwing all his weight behind this bill? should he have been more forceful about this plan earlier on, saved a whole lot of time and energy? i mean how many months have we been talking about this?

or is his pacing been about right for the white house involvement. >> i think all of us are getting a little tired of talking about this. >> oh, yeah. oh, yeah, for sure. >> let's hope that it is going to be over with soon. i think in hindsight, a lot of folks are saying, you know, once the republicans sort of laid it out, all of them voting against the stimulus package, mitch mcconnell has already signaled even before the president was inaugurated that this was going to be stopped this president at all cost. it probably would have been better to go to reconciliation last summer, get it done, pass it. but no one knew there were negotiations, folks were still talking. but at the end of the day the important thing i think is not the process, alex. because people forget this kind of stuff pretty quickly once the substance is out there. so all our back-and-forth about how this is done, i mean it weighs a bit.

the important thing is for this president to put all his weight behind it right now. it was smart to cans that will trip. it would a have been a big mistake if he was out of the country. i think going up to the hill this afternoon makes perfect sense. >> i've been e-mailing with a legislative assistant to a congress person, and i'll tell you, they're tired, too, of it. i mean like up to here i'm basically getting from this guy. but to that extent, pat, the same question can apply to republicans with regard to all the time they have spent fighting this bill rather than trying to take control of it. >> well, they can't take control of it. at one point last summer, or in september, i think harry reid had his 60 votes, he had olympia snowe and he had a trigger for the public option that the democrats wanted. i think at that point if he had just rammed that through instead of going back to a full public option, i think this would have been a done deal and it would have been over, quite frankly, and obama would have signed it last fall. so i think that was a real mistake.

but i do think now, look. they really ought to vote up or down. i can understand it, i mean if our side, so to speak, gets beat, they get 217, 218 votes, fine. but if you do this subterfuge deem to pass thing, it is going to be a little bit like the election of 2000 where you get the supreme court of united states overruling the supreme court of florida or something like that, and this could leave a real rotten taste in people's mouths for a long, long time, because this is historic legislation. it is clear that a majority of the country doesn't want it. and i think to ram it through that way, i think, will do permanent damage to political relations in this city and certainly it will be reflected this fall. >> how about in terms of, peter, the amount of political capital the president has used up. does he have enough there to tackle all the other things that are on his plate? let's just say the one that's starting up tomorrow big time, immigration reform. >> you know, i think there is a lot on his plate, alex.

his energy, environmental legislation, there is immigration, there's more jobs legislation. so there's a lot. and he's been tackling a lot. he is a president that can keep more than one ball in the air. but there is no question this is eating up a lot of time and a lot of political capital. but i will say on this question of passage, look. the republicans got angry about reconciliation. they say all the reagan tax cuts were done by that, c.h.i.p. program, then they get upset about this latest round and in 2003, 2005, when the republicans were in control, they passed 36 bills with this technique. democrats in the last two years did 49 bills. well, you know, as i say, i think this is process stuff. i think there will be -- i agree with pat in one sense. there will be folks complaining,

the right wing will go nut on this for a while. but i think come november a lot of the process stuff will be forgotten and folks will be focusing on the substance. >> pat, you agree, think in november everything will be hindsight being 20-20? >> i do think there is some truth to that, because i do think the economy and whether unemployment numbers come down, whether it is getting better in the economy, i think that will be the major issue. but there is no doubt, this is going to leave a very, very bitter taste in the mouths of an awful lot of people when you have 100,000 calls coming in to congress every single hour, alex. >> thank you so much, guys, for wrapping it up by johanna is in my ear today. not nick. thank you, guys. the msnbc political team is following every angle of the health care debate with web updates throughout the day. check out firstfirstread.msnbc..

it is the place for politics. a judge says the deal to compensate police officers, firefighters and other workers who worked on 9/11 isn't big enough. he is concerned the first responders were pushed into signing a deal they didn't understand. it is not known what's going to happen with this deal now. some parts of the plains are welcoming the first day of spring with snow. a fierce storm has already slammed parts of the colorado front range with as much as 20 inches of snow. weather channel's mike seidel is live once again for us in oklahoma city. we've been watching you all morning there, my friend. how long is this snow supposed to last? >> reporter: it's going to last at least into tomorrow morning in some way, shape or form. we think the heaviest accumulations will be around the tulsa area. here in oklahoma city, we're forecasting 5 to 8 inches. if we got 4.6 or more, that will make it the snowiest winter season on record here in oklahoma city. they started off the season with 13.5 on christmas eve. that's the biggest storm they've ever seen.

dallas had their biggest storm ever on record this season. el nino coupled with cold air. the cold air came rushing in here last night on a gusty northwesterly wind. i got here, it was 72 degrees. you go to dinner, come out from dinner and it drops back into the 40s. it was a rude awakening. it is amazing how quickly things can change in the plains, really anywhere. they say wait 15 minutes. roads aren't in bad shape because the snow intensity has back off. we have that potent angle so when the snow backs off and you have traffic, notice we have slush on the roads but they're certainly very passable as well as the interstates. better news ahead, alex. as we get into monday and tuesday, the sun is back out and temperatures are back in the 60s. but this weekend, it's wintry here. by the storm gets to the east coast, by the way, snow is not going to be an issue in the big cities. it will be, if anything, some rain. but make the best of today and tomorrow. what a tremendous, scrumptious weekend on tap for the entire eastern seaboard.

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so we're getting word right now, as you look at the house rules committee, that another democrat has signed on and will vote yes for the health reform package tomorrow. that's indiana democrat representative barron hill who says he'll vote in favor of all the legislation being considered by congress. what he has expressed concerns about is the abortion language and the bill's impact on the deficit but he says he is now satisfied on both counts. though there are several democrats still on the fence, congressman john dingell says he's confident the plan will get passed. michigan democrat joined me a short while ago. >> we're going to win. the bill is going to pass.

it is going to the president to be signed, and 32 million people are going to get health care. it also is so that we're going to see that for the first time in a long time, we're passing a massive budget reduction bill and a deficit reduction bill, something which will mean 130-some-billion dollars in reductions during the first ten years of the bill, and during the second ten years, over $1.3 trillion. >> well, msnbc will have live coverage all day tomorrow as the house prepares to take this historic vote. keep it right here on msnbc sunday for final round of the health care battle. the director of the cia says al qaeda is on the run and lacking for leadership in the wake of an aggressive operation by the agency. this week leon panetta reveals the cia believes osama bin laden and his top deputy have gone deeper into hiding. also this week, a former cia

field operative is detailing his 15 years as a covert agent in a new book called "the reluctant spy my secret life in the cia's war on terror." joining me now, the author, john kiriaku, good morning. i'm curious what you make of the challenges facing the cia right now. since you left in 2004, what's changed and what hasn't? >> a lot has changed. the fight is a lot more difficult now because al qaeda really has scattered. we have believed all along that most of al qaeda's leaders and the taliban's leaders have been in that border area along -- between pakistan and afghanistan, but it is difficult to operate in that area. i think director panetta is correct in that the pressure that the cia has put on al qaeda over the last eight, ten months or so has succeeded in pushing them out of the area to a certain degree, and into cities where it is easier to track

them. >> so, john, is that part of the reasoning behind the title about being a reluctant spy? why were you a reluctant spy? because it because of the difficulties in the area or other things? >> no, i embraced the difficulty of the job. i started my life at the agency as an analyst. i was kind of reluctant to go into operations but i found once i did that, that i had a knack for it. i was really very reluctant to leave the organization. i loved it very much, i still love it. i think the men and women of the cia work hard to keep the country safe and i miss it every day. >> okay. tell me about really an integral part of the book when you were part of the team that caught the then-number three terrorist on the wash list, abu zoo bubaydah. what it was about that capture that surprised you? >> i was surprised at the youth of the people around abu zubaydah. it wasn't just al qaeda fighters. they were barely out of their teens, they were young, scared,

largely illino lly ill liiterat. >> you actually thought it best to tie him with a bed sheet to the bed but he comes out of this coma having been critically injured. what did he ask for? >> he first asked for a glass of red wine. the doctor thought maybe he was hallucinating and gave him some more painkillers that knocked him out for another few hours. but then when he woke up the second time he asked me to smother him with a pillow. he was very upset. he couldn't believe he had been captured. after a few hours he was able to calm down enough that we could have a couple of conversations. >> okay. well, unfortunately, we don't have time to get to the waterboarding. i spoke to you earlier about that. people can certainly take a look at your new book, "he reluctant spy my secret life in the cia's war on terror." coming up, there could be a

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so, we don't have time for a full list of the number ones this hour. but here is a number one salute to lebron james. last night, he scored the 15,000th point of his career. he's the youngest player to score that many points. he beat out kobe bryant. nadya suleman might be evicted from her los angeles home. the mortgage holder says he has started foreclosure proceedings because the family hasn't kept up on payments. he plans to evict the mother of 14 on tuesday. pretty harsh.

amy palmer is joining me. it's a serious situation. >> very serious. she has 14 kids. >> do you think it's really going to happen? >> it could. it's a very valid threat. i think she has guardian angels watching over her. she missed payments on her gym membership. someone paid it. people are looking out for her. not for her, but the kids. >> this is a huge payment. some sort of a balloon payment. more than $400,000. >> $450,000 was due this month on top of $4,000 a month monthly payments. it's a guy gan tick balloon payment that she missed. we don't know if she was going to sell her life story or didn't calculate how much it costs to take care of 14 kids. >> she has been making some

money? >> she has. >> how? >> she's been doing documentaries and filming the kids. it's not going to pay for the lifestyle she wants to live. she is in all the magazines and she's dressed in the latest fashions. she goes tanning a lot. her money is funneled to her needs as well. it might seem frivolous. >> well, we're going to see tuesday if they are out on the street. let's hope not for the kids sake. >> absolutely. >> we have to get to sandra bullock and jesse james. it's hit people hard given what we think is genuine love. we see it during the oscars and the golden globes. what is the story? >> sandra moved out of the home and she's devastated. she's with friends now. she's trying to decide what to do. it's not just about a broken marriage, it's a broken family. she came close to his three

children, especially the 5-year-old sonny who is in the middle of a custody battle. it's been very tumultuous for her. sandra provided a stable home environment for her. >> we should add, she helped get that custody battle by writing this letter say whag a great guy jesse is. >> it's obvious for anyone watching the awards show, she's madly in love with him. >> yeah. >> she waited until she was 40 years old to get married. >> he seems in love with her. look at the two of them. this came as a surprise. >> it was a surprise. we were talking about this earlier. he's the biker guy into tattoos and partying. she's america's sweetheart. if you look at the women he had the affair with, she's full of tattoos. it's what his ex-wife looks like

as well. he's got a type. >> okay. thanks so much. that's a wrap, everyone of the live msnbc saturday coverage. stay with us for updates and breaking news as it happens. wake up with me tomorrow morning a big day on msnbc sunday. walgreens.com gives you a new way to stay well. to manage your stress. ( sneezes ) handle your allergies. and get inspired. the new walgreens.com features health shops for diabetes, blood pressure, weight loss, and more. get information and solutions in one place.

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