. what am i supposed to say so that, pete? i got nothing. let's just start "morning joe." ♪ the beat goes on our generation is able to succeed in passing this reform, is a testament to the persistence and the character of the american people. it's also a testament to the historic leadership and uncommon courage of the men and women of the united states congress. who have taken their lumps during this difficult debate. >> yes, we did.

>> one of the most perplexing things about this health care bill is the determination of the white house and the democratic majority to shove this down the throat of the american people, even though they've made it clear they don't support this bill. >> i can tell you with regard to the -- to the campaign that will continue with the american people. i think the slogan will be repeal and replace. >> all right. >> welcome to "morning joe." >> welcome, everyone, top of the hour. >> the president's speech yesterday. >> no, vice president's was wonderful. >> hey, you know what, mike has nobody told mika there is a no attack joe zone right here. >> he's the greatest vice president in the history of america. >> in the history of the world, because this was a big -- >> it was a big deal. >> and let me just say -- we have a seven-second delay. is it just people with the name

joe that need a seven-second delay? i was actually just telling somebody a couple days ago that if i ever get back into politics i want to have what joe biden has because you can do whatever you want to do, whatever you want to do and everybody goes, it's just joe. that's joe. >> it's joe being joe. >> you know why people like it? because this town's so full of stiffs, is so one guy who actually has a personality -- >> he's a real guy. >> exactly. >> he's a genuine guy. >> with all due respect to the stiffs in washington. seem like nice people. >> so, historic signing yesterday at the white house. it was a celebration. >> it was. >> i expected, you know -- ♪ celebrate ♪

cool and the gang. this is the greatest thing ever. he was crazy. >> do you think -- how many people in the white house yesterday do you think were surprised at their achievement? democrats, you know, who like two or three weeks ago were saying, oh, this is awful, we're getting killed. how many do you think were, wow, we actually did this. >> i think it was a pretty heady moment for them. i think -- obviously, they knew they had to get it done. we've been saying here, when you have a 79-vote majority in the house of representatives, you better not lose a vote in the house of representatives. but all that being said at the end of the day, must have been one of the few moments where they stopped and pinched themselves since they got sworn in and said, this is why we ran. it wasn't to bail out banks and it wasn't to bail out gm and all these other things. this is we're here. >> let's get right to it because we can lay it all out for you exactly as it went down

yesterday. the big story, time for a look at today's top stories. after more than a year of debate, health care reform is now a reality. president obama signed the bill into law during a white house ceremony yesterday. the president describing the change as an historic moment for the country while dismissing the continued opposition against it. >> i heard one of the republican leaders say this was going to be armageddon. well, you know, two months from now, six months from now, you can check it out, we'll look around and we'll see. you don't have to take my word for it. >> okay. the day's most memorable sound bite, however, may have come from the vice president, joe biden, who added yet another highlight to his reel. >> ladies and gentlemen, the president of the united states of america, barack obama.

>> i love him. >> i doshgs to, too. >> i can relate to him. >> yes, you can. >> i feel there might be a special kinship there. >> there is a special kinship. joe, i love you. >> the senate will vote on a package of changes the house made to the legislation. republicans are adding several amendments to keep democrats from pressing ahead on a quick vote. they include plans to bar drugs to section offenders -- oh, god, bar e.d. drugs to section offenders. >> what are e.d. drugs? >> erectile dysfunction. like, i wanted to just -- >> what are they? >> -- move on to the next thing. >> we go to our e.d. correspondent at the e.d. desk, mike barnicle. >> let me straighten this out for you. >> it's the grandpa jokes. i talk to the women at the bar. no problem. they wish he had that problem.

so, anyway, so -- >> do you want me to continue? >> here's the thing, though, there are, of course, republicans whose hair set on fire. not about mike's situation, but about this bill. listen, i've got say, as a small government conservative i think this is a very bad bill for america. that being said, to me, this is an exciting time because we're going to have a real debate finally. you know, democrats always try to run its interests. they'll g we're just like the republicans. you know, we just like people more. no, no, what you have done is pass the largest tax increase in u.s. history. you've done it when we have 17% real unemployment. you are taxing medical devices and you are taxing people that make things that require innovation. some of the people that run these companies say it's going to devastation their r&d capability in the coming years. we've got a real debate on our hands here.

and i must say, if conservatives in washington, d.c. can't use this bill that i think is a terrible bill, can't use this terrible bill to show why there is a real difference between republicans and democrats, then the republican party is unworthy of existence. basically, you know how they say in new york, if you can make it here, you can make it anywhere. in this case, if republicans can't frame this bill correctly by using the facts, they're -- there is no small government party in america, mike. >> but how do they do it, joe? my question to you would be -- let's say that it's a terrible bill. let's say that there's too much into it, that it's going to tax too many people too much down the road, but in the time frame involved between now and the election, there are going to be benefits that kick in for average americans, preexisting condition, your kid up until 26 can go on the bill, is stuff

like that. two or three elements achievable immediately. the tax bite, the size of this bill, the impact in terms of bure rack kacy, that doesn't take effect for a couple of years. how do you convince people in the six-month time frame between now and the elections to vote against it based on fear of the future? >> well, i said it -- i've said it the past couple of days. some democrats come on the air and say, oh, no, no, no, you can't do that. i've been in four campaigns. i support the preexisting clause. i support this. i that. we agree with that. in fact, i had an amendment that nancy pelosi wouldn't let on the house floor that would have passed all those things, but not taxed you for making wise investments if you make over $200,000. not raised your taxes for capital gains. not raised your taxes for medicare. not raised taxes for this, that, et cetera. again, i think the democrats are whistling pass the grave yard when they say, because we always

hear the same three things, well, this is what we're passing. republicans are going to support that on the campaign trail. >> but your approach, as you just defined it, is sensible, i think, to most people. and yet none of that appeared, at least publicly, in the public prints and on tv and news programs about the leadership of the republican party -- >> because the media didn't want that to get out. >> or a combination they may have been too afraid of the tea party? >> no, we had paul ryan on this show. i wonder why more networks didn't have paul ryan on? you know, the very things i talked about here without talking to anybody on capitol hill, by the end of the process i heard republicans on capitol hill saying, we're foreign antitrust exemption, we want people to vote across state lines. i mean, the insanity of the democratic position that we -- through this whole debate that we're for competition, we just want to set up competition between a monopoly and washington, d.c. and a monopoly in your state with health insurance companies. i mean, the whole basis of this

argument from the beginning seems to me has been fought. again, i know there are a lot of -- all democrats disagree with me. i'm just talking about those small government conservatives. the three that are still left in washington, d.c. that they can make a very strong argument. again, saying i'm for all of these things. which i always have been. for all of those things, because of personal reasons and other things. but -- >> let me show you where there are changing numbers on this. according to a new poll from "usa today" and gallup, 49% believe the bill's passage a good thing. 40% think it's a bad thing. 11% have no opinion. opposition remains fierce. attorneys general in 14 state are now suing to block the health care law. last night on the rach the maddow ed rendell thinks his state is passing it for the

wrong reason. >> corbin, he's too good of a lawyer to have filed this suit because any good lawyer knows the federal supremacy clause dominating here. we don't have separate passports, each state doesn't have a separate passport, each state doesn't have separate immigration laws. there are some things the federal government has the absolute power to do. this is one of them. so, this is a total waste of taxpayers' money. it's totally done for political purposes. and as i said, tom corbin is too good a lawyer to have joined this suit. >> now, tom kis one of the republican candidates in pennsylvania. last night chris matthews asked michigan's attorney general whether politics is playing a role in his decision to try to block the law. >> sir, it seems to me interesting that 12 of you are republicans and -- >> right. >> -- and four are running for governor. is this politics? >> well, i am running for governor. nancy pelosi is running for her

seat. harry reid is running for his seat this year. what we're arguing is the federal government has never -- congress has never said to americans that part of the price of being an american citizen is that you have to buy something. and here, for the first time ever, we have to buy something. we have to buy health insurance or the federal government is going to fine us. that has never happened in our 200-plus years of history. >> all right. two other polls to take note. first, let's put up the bloomberg numbers we're seeing, the latest numbers showing that support of the health care bill passed by congress is at 39%. 50% opposed it. and i believe we have the gallup tracking poll now we can look at. >> look at those numbers. >> this is interesting. >> go up since the middle of last week. they have jumped up. again, it's only five, six points, but that is a significant jump. >> this is obama's approval rating. >> these are obama's approval ratings. and you can actually see a

straight line up since last week. >> very interesting. >> so, there's been a really -- seems to me barack obama has certainly won the first round in the post-vote battle that will continue through election day. >> and it's certainly -- i mean, this is a win on a number of levels because it helps him move forward with other things he wants to do with support like this growing. >> and, barnicle, between donny deutsche squealing like a little girl when the beatles arrived in 1964 arriving about this bill and also falling backwards on his head, the one thing he did get right, if you sort through all the insanity that he was into spewing yesterday, so americans like winners. and this president has looked tough. and he's looked like a winner over the past week. he's finally stepped up, he has finally stepped up. >> and he took a risk. >> he needed to be tough and he's finally looking like a tough leader. >> it's no surprise the chart we

just showed, the spike in his popularity comes when he hits the road and goes out and sells his beliefs. he's very good at it. >> i heard from so many people the last couple of weeks, deem and pass, reconciliation, they're tuning out, call me when it's over. it's over. they saw him standing there victorious. now you see the numbers. >> you just -- we've been talking about health care for so long, it is shocking the people that have just completely tuned out this debate. i'm talking the overwhelming majority of americans. >> a lot of people. >> well, i'll tell you, i don't want to -- my wife who follows politics very, very closely, very, very closely, about three months ago, i said, did you see the show today? she says, no. i'm like, you're not watching? you know, you start talking about health care and i start thinking about getting my kids ready for school. >> parliamentary process. >> yes. so many americans -- i mean, we

are crazy about it. donny -- >> up next, they met privately behind closed doors. this morning politico is learning more about the unusually long and secretive meetingses between president obama and israel's prime minister. also, palin's hit list, how she's targeting democrats who voted for health care reform. those next in the politico playbook. an autistic teen from chicago may still be the only one -- >> no way! >> every game? >> every game. >> to have the perfect basketball bracket. >> holy cow. >> every single game he's called. >> that's insane. >> we'll see who he has winning it all. >> speaking of insane, bill karins is here. >> a check of the forecast. >> crazy, crazy bill. >> i got syracuse/kentucky still, so i'm all right.

let's talk about what's going on out there weatherwise. boston, another heavy rain event. flooding on the rivers. light rain showers this morning. it will clear out this afternoon. we're in for a decent day. 50s and 60s through new england down i-95. the problem area, out in colorado. snow continues to fall. check out these pictures. we've already gotten a foot on the ground and it is still snowing in denver. interstate 70 has areas that are closed. interstate 5 25, portions of that highway are closed. denver to colorado springs to pueblo, be very careful this morning. the rest of the country, your weather looks just fine on this wednesday. you're watching "morning joe" brewed by starbucks. national car rental? that's my choice.

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snshg ♪ ♪ did you see that gps device where you can track anybody in washington or in the white house? take a look. take a look from "60 minutes". >> one of the secrets he didn't mind revealing us is the gps-like device in his office which tracks the major white house players. >> so, has the president, the vice president, first lady. >> so this is where they are at all times? >> right here. these five congresslemen are getting tickled. >> that's terrible. >> they keep track of that? >> that's pretty funny. time to take a look at the morning papers. we'll start with "the washington post." obama seals the health care victory. >> jpmorgan is nearing a deal to allow it to benefit from a tax refund as of much of $4 billion.

>> san francisco chronicle, gubernatorial candidate meg whitman has swamped california with an unprecedented tsunami of ad. the former ebay ceo has spent $46 million so far, the most ever been a candidate for a statewide primary in california. >> it's interesting. she is so far ahead right now as well. in "usa today" there's growing fear that china's property market could be the next big economic bust. real estate prices have risen for nine months making homes unfordable for white collar worker. a bubble burst could sharply demand the need for u.s. exports. here, mr. jim vandehei, a look at the morning playbook. let's talk sarah palin. i understand shea she has a hit list, using her favorite vehicle, facebook, to go after

democrats who voted for the health care bill. >> she has a target list of democrats that she's going to campaign against. probably get involved in helping raise money for the republican candidate and virtually every case she's looking at districts that mccain won but that a democrat holds the house seat. and the thinking there, that's a seat that republicans should have a good chance of picking up and where she thinks she can go in and fire up conservatives. you know, she can be effective because if you think about turnout in house races, it's pretty low, a third of registered voters turn out, and you're looking for enthusiasm at the base level. obviously, the base is enthused with her. they think if she goes into these districts and turn up energy. >> i want to read one thing. with the president signing this unwanted and transformative government taxover of our health care system today with promises of impossible to let's not get

discouraged. we're going to hold them accountable for this disastrous obamacare vote. >> jim brings up a great point, willie. this is exactly where sarah palin star power can make a huge impact. you saw in virginia, saw in new jersey, certainly in massachusetts, statewide republican candidates did not want her to be there because, of course, the pool expands. you have more moderate voters, more suburban voters. these congressional districts, this is where, as jim said, you want the intense base to come out. it's small enough, the base is important enough in these places. if sarah palin goes into one of these congressional districts, she's a superstar. people come out. she raises money, gets aggressive, it's energized. she can make -- we've been saying all the things she can't do. jim's exactly right. here's a case where sarah palin can have a big impact in the

2010 election. >> one of the things to look for when everyone will be dissecting polls in the next couple of weeks, you need to look at the enthusiasm gap we saw before the health care vote. there was a 20 to 30-point difference between republicans who are very enthusiastic for the upcoming congressional elections and democrats who are not nearly as enthusiastic. and if you continue to have that big gap, that is a dangerous, dangerous sign for democrats heading into november. and what someone like sarah palin can do, she can continue to keep that enthusiasm gap high and keep republicans engaged, especially by attacking health care and the repeal of health care which we're hearing from mitch mcconnell, sarah palin, virtually every republican leader between now and notify. i think it will be a relentless assault on the candidates on the health care bill like we had with the stimulus. >> it will be interesting. lost in the signing of the health care law at the white house yesterday was a pretty remarkable night with president obama and israeli prime minister netanyahu meeting twice behind closed doors. no cameras, no microphones, no

questions. what was going on? >> this is usually a big, big deal, the relations between the two countries have historically been very, very strong. it's a big deal when the two leaders get together in washington. usually a photo op, joint statements, a joint press conference. here you had nothing. tensions are so high between the two countries. u.s. officials are still ticked off that when joe biden was over there that they made that announcement without tipping off the united states that they were going to try to do more settlements in disputed territory. the meeting last night was about 90 minutes. we hear it was often tense and afterwards there was no photo, none of the favors we give foreign dig thatter tos when they visit. >> and netanyahu called a second meeting. they got through one meeting. an hour later he said, i want to talk to president obama again. remarkable night and day at the white house yesterday. jim, thanks much. we'll catch up with you in a couple hours. coming up later, dick durbin and republican senator jim demint who has already introduced legislation to fully

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♪ welcome back to "morning joe." it's just before 6:30 on the east coast. time for a look at some of today's top stories. with health care reform officially in law today, president obama is set to sign an executive order reaffirming restrictions on the use of federal funds for abortion. that was a key agreement to win the support of several anti-abortion democrats. tomorrow, president obama will head to iowa to try to explain the law's benefits to voters. there are new questions this morning about education secretary arne duncan's tenure, running the chicago's public school system. a report in the new york times says that duncan kept a 40-page list of local politicians and business leaders who looked for help getting their children into the city's most selective public schools. >> oh, boy. look at this. i hope that "the new york times"

by line said, america's teachers union. i saw this in florida with jeb bush and frank grogan when they tried to give the poorest american children the same opportunity that rich people that work in these unions, who will send their kids, by the way, to private schools. these stories started magically appe appearing. you cross the teachers union, they will do anything to -- turn off the drums. you've seen this, mike barnicle, you cross the teachers union, they will do whatever can be done to destroy you. so now they're going after arne duncan. they're planting stories in "the new york times." >> well, it began in chicago. i think it was in "the chicago tribune" or "sun-times." that's where the story emanated from. i would submit to you there's not a school superintendent in a big or small city that doesn't have a similar list. you need public support to move the schools forward. that is clearly what he tried to do in chicago. it's clearly what he's trying to

do here. he is so angered and alienated the teachers union that absolutely they just -- >> they made -- >> absolutely. >> by the way, just for the record, the head of the new york teachers union, sends his child to private school. i'm going to be debating my new friend bill perkins, bill, his mom got him out of harlem public schools. he got his daughter out of harlem public schools. >> good for him. >> listen -- no, i want him to have that opportunity. the thing is, i want the poorest parents in harlem and the south bronx to have the same opportunity as bill and the head of the new york teachers union and all these other people. but it's amazing. by the way, in this -- speaking of "the new york times," this story about bill perkins, you know, they never once mention in "the new york times" that perkins was the most strided

ally of the teachers union? not one mention of the teachers union in that entire story. you cannot understand these education stories and this hit on arne duncan without understanding the teachers unions are the ones trying to destroy him. >> you've touched on something that's critical in understanding why public education isn't covered well in america. it is because f you look at the mast heads at the big papers, very few mast heads and big reporters have their children in public schools. >> of course they don't. >> we'll cover this tomorrow -- >> the editors of the "new york times," the editors of "the washington post," do you think they send their kids to public schools? >> d.c. public schools, no. let's go to sports with willie. >> but i just want to -- just one thing. an education department spokesman does say that arne duncan has not done anything -- here, let me get -- >> he has done something wrong. he's crossed the teachers union. >> i know. >> this is so transparent.

they destroy anybody that gets in the way. why? because they control billions of dollars. they control pat ronnage jobs. it is a monopoly of power and they're not giving it up, just like i don't want to give up any time to anybody because we have to for sports. >> the second most important issue, behind education in this country, coin toss in nfl football games. so, a lot of people frustrated because when you go to overtime in the nfl, whoever wins the coin toss wins. you get on the field, you kick a field goal, game's over. so big changes to the nfl overtime rules for the playoffs for now. if if they win a coin toss and kicks a field goal, the other team gets a ball with an opportunity to score. if the team that won the coin toss scores a possession, they have a real drive and score, then they win and the game's over. >> come on. >> that's stupid. >> they did a 15-year study. they found 60% of the time the team that wins the coin toss

wins. >> that's stupid. i wish they would do it like college. >> college gets everything right. this is a great story. chicago area autistic teen may just be this year's march madness bracket champion of the entire world. 17-year-old who has correctly predicted the outcome of every single game in the first two rounds of the ncaa tournament. 48 for 48. the odds of that happening are 1 in more than 13 million. he's got one stumbling block here. he has purdue against kansas in the final. that's going to be tough. he's riding the cornell train. here he is explaining why he likes them. >> because the size of player and how good they are in defense and how good they are this year. cornell, such a good, good team. so, i just went for them because they're so good in that ivy league and everything. >> every sing male game. he submitted that bracket with

cbs sports. we'll be back with the daily beast, tina brown. a brand new poll shows how the tea party could hurt republicans in upcoming congressional races. and, of course, mika's must read opinion pages. you're watching "morning joe" brewed by starbucks. ♪ happy anniversary wow! [ grunts ] oh, no, no, no, no, no, no, no. aah! [ door opens, closes ] wow. what's the occasion? [ male announcer ] relax. pam helps you pull it off. - i got another 300 miles in me. - sure you do, honey. - come on guys, give me a hand. - we can make it to paperclip mountain. looks like somebody needs a comfort inn. hi, reservation for the carter family. uh, yes, your room is ready. free high-speed internet. relaxing pool. cozy beds. and free breakfast with hot waffles. need to relax after a long day of vacation? comfort inn.

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♪ the only way people are going to fully appreciate what this reform is if we pass it and implement it and it becomes not a caricature but a reality. and i still believe that. so, i am -- i think it will be easier to sell it moving forward than it was to this point. but, you know, even in the weeks -- in the six weeks -- and partly -- not more than partly, i think a lot because much

president's only energy and his own commitment to this, the numbers started moving up again. >> that's david axelrod on charlie rose. in that interview he called the president a worrier. >> not a worrier, a warrior. >> a warrior. >> that's what i call willie, a warrior. he's a warrior. >> w-a, a worrying warrior. >> i look at president obama and many words come to mind. warrior is not one of them. with us now, founder and editor and chief of the dailybeast.com, tina brown. >> good morning, everybody. >> good morning. >> let's get right to this. maureen dowd talks about that. "hail the conquering professor" is the name of her piece. obama wanted to reason to compromise to float in his ivory toury but at long last when push came to shove he shoved and let nancy push. he realized sometimes you can't rise above it.

you have to sink down into it. you have to stop being cerebral and get your hands dirty. you can fight fear with power. the chicago poll in the oval has had to learn one of the great american truths. you've got to slap the bully in the face. he's a consensus building worrier, axelrod boasted to charlie rose, the president who's been reading "the rise of theodore roosevelt" has always spoken with a soft voice. now he's wielded the big stick. >> tina brown, we were talking earlier about how the president the past couple of weeks actually rolled up his sleeves, got tough, started punching. >> i think americans do like to see the president sweat a bit. it's like, you know, there's a kind of -- he had so much glory, obama, that it was good to make him sweat. that's how people see it, i think, a little bit. they're now going to give him the kudos for having sweated a bit. nancy pelosi, hand it to her, really. she was like mrs. thatcher with reagan saying, don't go

wobblingy. she actually helped stiffen -- it was a good partnership in that sense. she really did help stiffen it all. i actually do think, it's a total fantasy of the republicans to believe that they can now really make this kind of ongoing, unpop layer jihad and roll it back. it seems to me that people like a winner. ultimately the attention span of america is small. in the end, you know, lady gaga will kill somebody or it will e be -- it will be the, you know, "american idol" finale and the whole attention span will move on. new shows are so board with it as well -- >> do you agree with maureen that he finally acted like a winner, a fighter in. >> yeah. i think it's something i can't understand about the white house because they're so smart. they let the insurance companies just sit out there for so long without punching at them. about three weeks ago the president takes to the country. what did he do when he took that stage?

he started punching the insurance companies. you need an enemy. >> he doesn't have to do that. >> but he did it. >> yes,he did. he finally did. i don't know how -- i haven't actually yet found out whether or not obama liked to work very late at school, be one of those students who does it at the last minute. it's like he does wait a very long time for his aggression to -- the shoe to drop, you know. >> vallerie told us he's a fourh quarter player. that's when he loves -- >> it's harrowing for everybody else. >> he's a money player, then. >> they're very excited about this. here's what tom friedman has to say in "the new york times." a tea party without nuts. obama won the presidency by tapping the center. they saw in obama a practicing mattist who could pull us together for pragmatic solutions. alas, though, it is not equal. there is still, conservative blue dog democrats but the liberal rockefeller republicans have been wiped out. if that radical center wants to be empowered it can't just

whine. it needs its own grass roots movement to promote reform like nonpartisan redistricting and alternative voting in every state. it is tea time for the center. >> well, you know, john allen -- that's what the daily beast writer has been saying all along. it's very hard to get the center energized because the center has other things to do. it's always been the big problem. you know, you can't get that sort of juice going for centerist position. >> he passed but the cost for the president -- i think everybody realizes this, is that he is no longer that transformative political figure we saw in iowa. he's no longer that guy, mike, in boston in 2004 that said, i don't see america as red state america or blue state america. we are one and -- no. obama's presidency, if you believe the polls, gallup poll

says has furthered the divide between blue state america and red state america. he and his white house has done that. axelrod said that's one of the big disappointments. they've pulled america farther apart f you believe the polls. >> is it the country or washington? >> it all starts at the top. i'm tired of people giving barack obama a free pass on this. he's president of the united states, just like george w. bush was president of the united states. something happens to those guys when they get in, they say, you know, tina, george bush said he was going to bring america together. he was a uniter, not a divider. he did it in taxes. bill clinton -- >> bush does a huge amount of divisive stuff. >> so did barack obama. >> he had everything after 9/11 -- >> hold on a second. i'm going to stop you there. you're dead wrong. domestically the first thing george bush did by taking

kennedy and saying, let's make a deal. and he -- in fact, bush spent up until 9/11 his first nine months working with democrats. not even talking to republicans. so, that -- >> but post-9/11 that was a huge moment. and i think people got very bitter about that. but, you know, i don't actually think this difference between rhetoric and ruin is dismaying to americans as we keep saying it is. i think ultimately process is ugly to watch. life is so transparent. you hear about it. >> this bill, you can look at this bill, this bill passed with the support of the american left. not the center. not the right. you go back to what we passed -- gingrich is right. we passed those bills with like

70% of the vote in the house. you look at bush going into iraq had an overwhelming number of people. this is one of the most deviss ive -- >> don't you think it was so stoked, though, by the divisive media hype stuff that in the end, people who wanted to be reasonable on the right were also felt they couldn't be, i think. john mccain's comment was ridiculous about how he's never going to work -- >> stoking has happened on the other side as well. >> at the top of the hour we'll look at the quinnipiac poll. tina brown, thank you very much. >> do you have a harris poll? >> there's a harris poll out. and it really reveals -- >> the beast book. our very first beast book. more than 20% believe obama was not born in the united states, he's the domestic enemy of the u.s. constitution, these racist, anti-american and collapse of terror attack accused of -- >> barnicle must have made that comment. [ children laughing ]

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i got over 1,200 hours on my first john deere. ♪ someday maybe i'll put it in my museum. ♪ [ male announcer ] go to johndeere.com/create and get up to $350 off select series tractors. mika's not here. do we have the clip? she's not here. you have to do the clip. >> oh, yes. is it time? >> there the. prerecorded mika. time for news you can't use. joe biden, perhaps, put the exclamation point on the long of this health care fight. >> clarify. we love joe biden. >> i don't need to clarify. >> we labeled him jesus as vice president and we stand by that. >> you're darn tootin'. heard what he said to the united states as he introduced

him. he said, sir, this is a big blanking deal. i'm awful doggone proud of you. well, the white house, you might expect, political circle, sort of a lame apology, which shocked, stunned, deeply saddened. good for the white house releasing this. robert gibbs on twitter saying, yes, mr. vice president, you're right. it is a big deal. >> that's what i'm talking about. >> being this is united states of america you have commerce up wing sup wing into a fren czy. you can buy this at zazell. you can get yourself a mug. >> i need a mug that says that. >> i bought six of those t-shirts. >> zazle.com. >> are you going to send one to joe? >> yes. >> last march, the vice president was at a ceremony for

amtrak at union station in d.c. and one of his former senate colleagues, who he said, you know, just call me joe, had the audacity to call him mr. vice president. here's what he said. >> mr. chairman, how are you? >> an hour late. give me a [ bleep ] break. >> see, it's the open mike and the f-bomb. they go perfect. vice president biden, we love you. >> could you love that man even more? >> hard to imagine my heart has any more love than it already does. sarah palin looking to cash in. the book, speeches. we told you a couple weeks ago she was in discussion with discovery channel to do a reality show about alaska. not about her family, not too cheesy, about the state of alaska. well, "variety" is reporting that deal is all but done. the show is going to win her $1 million an episode.

>> an episode? >> $1 million an episode. that's friends money right there. >> how many episodes? >> we don't know that. it's not going to be a like full 22-episode season. >> how much is she going to do? how many? >> i heard 45. >> chris said 45. but then he said, no, 45 second left in the block. >> joe, some people are suggesting that this is another point in the case -- or case in point, excuse me. it's very early. that she's not going to run. that she's interested in this. she's doing great at what she's doing now. >> listen, her -- she's doing very well. she's making money. and i'm sure her husband and family are saying, mom, you know, we -- i mean, they got abused as much as anybody in modern american politics. if you have young kids, why put them back into that for now? make some money. she can spend the next five years or so sort of burnishing her image. i think actually this is a good

idea, the alaska reality show to say, this is my backyard, this is who i am. i don't -- do you fault her? >> she's got time. she's still young. >> yes, it's also proof positive this is a great country. >> i love america. it's a great blanking country. still ahead, new quinnipiac poll hoeing the tea party may be hurting republicans. ide. that's why we're making it easier for everyone to find allergy solutions. by offering products like new zyrtec liquid gels. zyrtec, the fastest 24-hour allergy medicine, is now available in a liquid gel. zyrtec liquid gels work on your worst symptoms... indoors and out. you'll also get the expert advice of your walgreens pharmacist. so you'll feel freer to love the air. walgreens. there's a way to stay well. ( sniffing ) missing something? now at sears optical, get 2 pairs of glasses for $99.99. with bifocals just $25 more per pair. sears optical. don't miss a thing.

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♪ other generation is able to succeed in passing this reform is a testament to the persistence and the character of the american people. it's also a testament to the

historic leadership and uncommon courage of the men and women of the united states congress. who have taken their lumps during this difficult debate. >> yes, we did. >> one of the most perplexing things about this health care bill is the determination of the white house and the democratic majority to shove this down the throat of the american people, even though they've made it clear they don't support this bill. >> i can tell you with regard to the campaign that will continue with the american people, i think the slogan will be, repeal and replace. >> all right, welcome back to "morning joe." it is the top of the hour. good to have you with us. i'm mika brzezinski. >> and i'm joe scarborough. along with mike barnicle. this is a great blanking show, isn't it? and willie geist. we've got joe biden news today. >> you can call it news.

i don't really think it's nice when joe does it. just another chapter in the book. >> another day in joe's life. >> another layer to the legend. >> and another reason to love him. and to love robert gibbs who said, it was a big deal. >> i love it. >> you don't think this was a big deal? i don't get it. it was a big deal. >> it was a big deal. >> and it was a big deal. and the president mm-mm good. and the president has his press conference. i thought it was -- you know, it was a great ceremony. i'm sure donny was silently weeping at home. >> he was. >> yesterday -- >> rocking back and forth. >> you know, seriously, i leave this set for one day and you turn into the marxist variety act. >> i did not do that. >> they were savaging me. >> they were. you did very well. you were very restrained. >> like a cultural revolution. >> you loved it. >> a great leap forward. >> i was trying to provide some balance. lawrence even said i was in the loser's box. i was.

you had the one guy in the middle -- >> did you mind the big "l" we put over the graphic. >> that doesn't have tattoos of barack obama over the middle -- >> that's not true. we have been very balanced and measured. >> yeah, because i'm here. i've got a water hose. watering you down. donny, he always changes. >> he's a comedian. >> this bill will never pass. these white house people are the dumbist people. dirt is smarter than these people. he passes and he's the most brilliant people. joe, i never said -- >> cunning. >> -- they were anything but brilliant. come on. hey, chuck todd's here. chuck todd will -- he will bear witness to the fact that lawrence o'donnell did a 180. >> there are things to be happy about in it. >> like what? >> there's a lot to be happy -- >> tax credit for small business. >> tax credits. >> middle class tax cuts.

>> those that can't get jobs -- >> that's good. >> that's huge. >> i like the preexisting. that's good because my son's got a disability. portability is great. there's always -- it was always so frightening, you know, that if you lost your job, that it wasn't the salary for me, with a young family that was the most frightening thing, it was cobra. i was like, okay, so if i lose my job, i'm not going to be able to afford health care. i can't afford cobra. >> no. cobra's murder. >> yeah, it kills you. >> seriously. i'd have to give up one of my organs to science to be able to afford coverage. >> which one would you give up? >> actually, they're all corrupted, so you wouldn't want any of them. so, no, there are some good things in here. of course, i overstate things because that's what i do, because i'm half asleep, but i think most of it is a steamy pile of crap. >> no, that's not right. that's not right. >> it's horrible. >> that's not the case. >> the taxes -- they are

taxing -- >> no. >> we have 17% unemployment, they are taxing wise investments. this bill says, if you make a smart investment that creates jobs, that creates economic opportunity, we're going to raise your taxes. now, if you make a stupid investment, if you make a stupid investment, well, you can deduct that. i mean, come on. who thinks this way in the real world? i talk to a business person yesterday, one of the most powerful, who's a big obama supporter. he's like, you know, if they would have one person that's really knows business. >> they don't. >> -- in the inner circle, they would not have passed these provisions. this person was for the health care reform. are you so smart. can you tell us the news? it's time for a look at today's top stories. after more than a year of debate, health care reform is now a reality. president obama signed the bill into law during a white house ceremony yesterday. the president is describing the

change assist an historic money for the country while dismissing the continued opposition against it. >> i heard one of the republican leaders say, this was going to be armageddon. well, you know, two months from now, six months from now, you can check it out. we'll look around. and we'll see. you don't have to take my word for it. >> although the bill is now law, the senate will continue debate on a package of changes that the house made to the legislation. republicans are adding several amendments to try and keep democrats from pressing ahead on a quick vote. >> you do think, though, mika, that this is -- this is a good bill for americans. >> i think there are many good things about it, as i said. i think that small businesses have something to look forward to right away. the tax credits will begin for them. there are tax cuts for the middle class, right? right? right? so what -- i mean, you can't just paint it as horrific, you cannot. no one is going to love it

across the board, but i think it had to happen. >> it's horrific. >> i think it had to happen. we had -- >> it didn't -- >> i'm glad it's done. >> i respect -- >> i think we're a mean country if we don't. >> i don't think it had to happen. >> that's where we disagree fundamentally. >> i think it's a good start on something that had to be done a long time ago. i really think that ten years from now, people are going to look back at this period of time, over this legislation and say, what was that all about? i really think that's going to happen. >> yeah, because they're going to repeal it. >> here's the problem -- >> no, i don't think that's going to happen. >> do have you any amendments to tell us about? >> there are great amendments. >> the republicans are trying to add several amendments to keep -- >> like what? like what? >> well, they want to bar erectile dysfunction drugs to sex offenders. >> do you mean democrats want to give erectile dysfunction drugs to sex offenders? i knew it! it offended me they were calling

it a barnicle provision. the barnicle doughnut hole. >> that offended me, too. i think it's time for a little straight talk. >> yes. >> wait a minute. that just does not fly to barnicle. >> network. >> timmy, timmy, timmy. >> you haven't walked through central park lately. to keep congress from lecturing americans about fiscal responsibility. and eliminate sweetheart deals. according to a new poll from "usa today"/gallup, 49% believe the bill's passage is a good thing. 40% think it's a bad thing. 11% have no opinion. let's look at the bloomberg poll. do you support health care bill passed by congress? 39% do, 50% opposed. the gallup -- >> here's the most interesting poll. >> this is obama's approval rating. up 51%. so, look -- >> i love it when you say huh when it's an editorial.

>> no, i think this is expected, given he had a win. and i think this president needed it. they have a lot of things they want to get to, and now they can. they've got a little momentum now. >> chuck todd at the white house, people still don't exactly know what's in this bill, but they know barack obama. and let's put up that gallup poll again while you're talking. i know you hate the gallup daily tracking poll, but i think you will agree with me -- you don't look at it per day but you look at trends. that is one of the more dramatic trends going straight up from the middle of last week when this president, as maureen dowd said in her column today, started fighting. >> that's a fair way to look at it. again, all this polling out there, the bloomberg poll was conducted -- some was conducted before he even signed the bill. gallup is a one-day poll, one day, which is always an unreliable way of polling. so i think we all take a deep breathe, let's see how this

plays. i really think a lot of americans are now tuning in to learn what is in the bill. you know, they sort of knew something about it, but now they're like, okay, this is law. now what does it mean? >> is that good or bad for the president? >> you see -- we'll see. you know, the -- obviously, the white house believes it's good for them because the more people see that there's going to be the getting rid of preexisting conditions, a little more of a -- a little more regulation on insurance companies, that people will like that. obviously, the conservatives think that's not going to be the case. the more people learn about this thing. so, you know, i -- you know, i'm not going to sit here and be judge and jury on how that's going to help. i suspect over time it will help, assuming that people don't see their taxes going up immediately and all that. but i also wonder if in october people wonder, well, nothing's changed that much yet either, you know what i mean?

i wonder, if the finicky public kicks in? >> was it worth all that? yeah. let me ask you about the white house's attitude. there have been some grim days over the past six months. this white house depressed after scott brown's victory. tell us about how -- what it was like being there yesterday. it had to be an almost joyous festive atmosphere there. >> beyond. i think i saw at least one of the inner circle every day, whether it was rahm or axelrod or gibbs, and they are -- they are definitely walking on maybe not cloud nine but let's say it's cloud seven. >> they're walking on sunshine. >> exactly. and they're feeling pretty good about it. and i wonder how that carried over, frankly, into the -- cockiness is not the right word but they have a bounce in their step. gives them a renewed sense of

going -- feeling better about dealing with netanyahu on israel. it gives them an injection of confidence to deal with other tough issues. >> that's good because anybody that knows barack obama knows one thing he's lacked his entire life is confidence. so there's a positive development, mike barnicle. >> chuck n one of the polls we showed, you can see the spike upward in the president's approval rating. and the data that is about three weeks ago when the chart starts moving up. it's almost tied to the point where the president decided to hit the road and finally take on the insurance companies. if you believe, as a lot of people do, that presidents need opponents in order to get something done, he found an opponent in the health insurance lobby, went after them, signed the bill yesterday. within the white house, what's the plan to keep this guy on the road occasionally, looking for opponents to hammer at? because it seems to work well for him. >> well, it's funny you bring up the health insurance companies. you know, they've been trying to make them the opponent for about

six months now. you know, they made that pivot. remember -- i think it was right after his speech to congress. we said, oh, wow, check it out. they don't say health care reform anymore. they say health insurance reform. they were constantly -- but they never seemed to find their stride. what really helped them get confident about their message is when antham, that company out in california announced that 40% rate cut. it was sort of like, they had their example. see, look what's happening in the real world. look what's happening right now. they held that up in a way and that gave them that confidence. so, my guess is, what does that mean? financial regulatory reform, that means they may beat the living daylights out of wall street even more than before. i think you're right, running against somebody does help him a little bit. they keep saying they want to put him out on the road. they're going to increase the amount he's going out on the road. he goes out on the road tomorrow to sell health care in iowa

city. campaign trail heats up. we'll see how many people want him on the campaign trail. >> you mentioned netanyahu a minute ago. what was going on last night? this was overshadowed by the signing of the bill. no camera, no microphone. apparently he called for a second meeting, i want to talk to the president again, did netanyahu. what was going on? >> they have their hour and a half meeting. he came at about 5:30. the meeting between president and netanyahu ended at 7:00. netanyahu stayed, had meeting with other folks. i don't know exactly who but i know -- i wouldn't be surprised if it was general jones or rahm emanuel, folks involved in and out of the middle east peace process. apparently about 8:30, 9:00, netanyahu said he wanted to meet with the president again. and the president was over in the residence with his family and he came back over and they met for another, approximately, 45 minutes. knowing the israelis we should hear something sooner rather than later. they're usually a lot quicker to talk about their meetings with

the u.s. government officials than, frankly, our government is. we're not getting a lot of word beyond that. so, let's see what the body language is today. >> chuck, why not at least a photo op? it's israel, for heaven's sake. what was the idea behind that? >> i talked to plenty of senior officials. i said, are we supposed to read between the lines? i had somebody say, yes. yes, read between the lines. we're not giving them this photo op right now. they didn't do it the last time. you know, part has to do with israel and part has to do with, there is an obsession here not wanting to look like they're too -- the u.s. wants to be an honest broker between the palestinians and the arab world and the israelis. and i think that's what makes them hesitant sometimes of doing too many public events just with the president and netanyahu. >> fascinating. chuck todd, thank you very, very much. >> chuck, what's in the daily rundown? >> karl rove today. >> really? >> nice. >> that's big.

>> hey, it's -- it should be interesting. i just finished his book last night. fascinating read. >> he's doing, i believe, a 140-city book tour. >> wow. what was your takeaway? your biggest takeaway from the book? >> that you could take karl rove frustrations with the white house, the press and congressional democrats and put david axelrod's name or rahm emanuel's name. i was amazed at how many stories he told about dealing with the media or congressional democrats of this white house that i'm already hearing from rahm, axelrod -- >> fascinating. >> more similar than you realize. >> wow. >> chuck, we look forward to that. thank you very much. >> thanks, chuck. next on "morning joe" -- senate majority whip dick durbin and republican senator jim demint, who has already introduced legislation to repeal the health care law. first, let's go to bill karins with a check on the forecast. bill? >> good morning, mika.

finally, watching that big storm leave new england. a little light rain left around boston. just outside of portland, maine. forecast today, we'll clear out this storm and temperatures will warm up. should be a nice spring day from new york city southward to d.c. you can't complain at hartford with 57 degrees. where you can complain is denver, colorado, 1 to 2 feet on the ground. numerous schools canceled today. some roads are closed. other areas of the country with any weather concerns? not really. looking nice in florida and much of the west coast. you're watching "morning joe" brewed by starbucks. ♪

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with us now, democratic senator from illinois and majority whip dick durbin. he's standing by the merits of the new health care bill. and senator jim demint, who's pushing to repeal that bill. of course, i had jim demint, someone who followed me on twitter say, you have to play "waterloo" for senator demint and ask him why he decided to be the napoleon of this situation instead of being the british admiral. so, is this now the republican waterloo that barack obama's passed health care reform? >> we'll find out in november. good morning. thanks for having me. i would encourage all of the viewers to go to repe repealitpledge.com and help us repeal those who voted for this bill. >> is that possible, senator? >> i think it is.

if we have a good election in november and americans stand up in 2012 with a new president, i think this is bad enough, joe, we need to make it a long-term objective. most of the parts of this bill don't cut in for three, four years. and there are better ways to make sure americans have quality health care. this bill will not even allow seniors to find a doctor when it's fully implemented. >> so, senator, i've got a son with diabetes. i also have been in a job before where i was worried i was going to be fired -- well, this one. every job i'm always worried i'm aweek away from being fired. and cobra is so expensive. are you telling americans you want to repeal the preexisting clause? you want to repeal the portability part of this bill as well? >> well, joe, there's some admirable goals in this bill, but they're not accomplished. and we can't accomplish the goals just by mandating insurance companies, take

everyone when their rate are going to go sky high. i've imprus introduced proposals that would help everyone with preexisting conditions to get affordable policies. we don't have to cut medicare and raise taxes and put more debt on our children in order for people with preexisting conditions to have health insurance. we can do better. now, there's some here who believe that there are only government solutions to all of our problems. if you don't support the government solutions, you don't want them solved. that's not true. republicans have a lot better ideas on how all americans can get affordable health care. >> all right. senator durbin, if this fall's election is going to be a referendum on this health care bill, i will ask you on the other side, what should democrats do when their opponents say correctly, this is the largest tax increase in u.s. history and it was passed at a time when we have 17% real unemployment, and also it's a further expansion of the federal government at a time when that worries a lot of americans? >> joe, you know, i keep hearing you every morning talking about the biggest tax increase in

history but you don't mention it's also the biggest tax cut in history. we have almost $500 billion in tax cuts. and the tax cuts go to small businesses to help pay for health insurance premiums. they're going to go to individuals who can't afford their health insurance premiums. it is going to make certain everybody has a chance for affordable health insurance. we welcome this debate. i know that my colleagues on the other side are pushing the language and emotions to an extreme here to try to get this anger at a fevered pitch. they called us arrogant when we were pushing this bill and the public sentiment was against it. now the polls this morning showing 49-40 the american people support this. are they arrogant now in calling for its repeal? >> well, you said that -- are you accusing of jim demint of trying to push people's emotions to an extreme? >> i'll let jim speak for himself. but he seems to revel in the anger of people. i hope we can have a rational discussion that gets beyond the emotions. sometimes emotions take us a

little too far. and if you look at the reality, what senator demint wants to do in repealing this bill is just what you described, say to a family with a sick child, with a history of diabetic or asthma, that it's just an unfortunate circumstance. you can't -- >> most republicans i talk to support it, but we don't believe you raise taxes on people that make wise investments during a recession. so, do we -- >> come on, joe. >> do we have to have both? >> you can't play it both ways. i heard you say that the other day. i'll pick out pieces and say i really like those. the bottom line, this bill puts it all together. if you're making over $200,000 a year, you're going to pay slightly more in taxes. it's the cost, i think, of having the kind of america we want to have. where we have 30 million more people with health insurance instead of pushing their bills off on everybody else. >> jim demint, isn't it worth it? democrats will say, raise taxes on the rich . if you want to define rich as

$200,000 above. so 30, 31 million americans can now is have the same type of health insurance you and your family have. >> joe, all of this comes on the heels of a government taking over general motors and aig, the largest insurance company, the largest mortgage company, of huge debts we don't know how we're going to deal with. we know about the hype of cutting this deficit is really ridiculous when you take out all of the double accounting. it's not just about health care. it's an understanding that the government can't solve all our problems. it's really stealing from the next generation by putting this debt onto them and telling them, we're going to help people today, but you're going to pay for it tomorrow. >> okay, but democrats will say, though -- answer two things. first of all, democrats have said that the cbo's numbers are revenue neutral. now, of course, if they had come back and said, this blows a hole in the deficit in the national debt, you would have brought that up. secondly, how do you respond to senator durbin saying what i

have yet to hear, and i certainly haven't read in any documents, this is the largest tax cut in u.s. history? >> well, joe, that is just fantasy. this is a huge tax increase. and i think as people see the cost of this, not only in taxes but in their jobs. if small businesses thought they were getting a tax cut, they would be for this. they're not. i was on a conference call with thousands of them yesterday. they're up in arms. and they -- and they want to figure out, can we repeal this? can we fix health care the right way? can we stop this government rampage that seems to be trying to take over all areas of our economy. >> all right. senator durbin, i'll give you the last word. i want to know, what's your source? i read the cbo report. i read the joint committee on taxation report. i didn't see the largest tax cut in u.s. history in any public document that i've read thus far. >> almost $500 billion in tax cuts. >> what's your source there? >> well, the source is the bill. and i've read it. and if you take a look at it --

>> you read the bill? >> yes. is that surprising? >> congratulations. we found one that has. >> no, many have. i can tell you also that most of it in the first day, we can say to america's small businesses, if you have fewer than 25 employees, we're going to help you pay for your health insurance for your employees. those that want to repeal that tax cut for small businesses have at it. i want to be part of that debate. >> all right. it's going to be a great debate. >> senator durbin, senator demint -- >> thank you, guys, for being with us. we appreciate it. coming up, china strikes back against google. the latest move in the online chess match when we come back. on deck, the nation's katrina vanden heuvel will be here. >> i try to not to get in the way. gets in the way of logic, but i did read -- i read the cbo report, i read the joint committee on taxation report. that's an interesting spin from dick durbin. >> it's not a spin. >> it's an interesting spin.

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the sun up this morning. pretty day, it looks like. welcome back to "morning joe." it's 7:30 on the east coast. time for a look at some of today's top stories. the white house is not disclosing what was discussed last night when israeli prime minister benjamin netanyahu met with president obama. the leaders held two separate meetings. after the president left the first sitdown, netanyahu remained behind and huddled with top israeli aides. he then requested president obama return to the room for further talks. the meetings come amid a rare diplomatic flare-up over their decision to build additional settlements. google says web users in china are being blocked from the search engine. this came after google said they would no longer krenser them. and the government's pay czar kenneth feinberg is looking to slash the annual compensation

of top executives whose companies received taxpayer bailouts. the executives will be paid an average of 15% less compared to last year. the cuts would apply to aig, general motors, chrysler and two other firms that have not yet repaid their loans. makes sense, doesn't it? >> that's fair. >> makes good sense. i like it. >> right, mike? if you haven't repaid your loans, we as taxpayers still own you. >> yes. >> and if you don't want us to tell you what to do as far as -- >> don't take our money. >> yeah, don't take our money. but other firms have paid it back. >> ken feinberg has done a spectacular job. >> i hear he's a good guy. we'll be back with the nation's katrina vanden heuvel. tomorrow watch our town hall live from tampa, florida. we have a huge lineup of special guests. we'll get a lot done. look forward to it. we'll be right back with more "morning joe" brewed by starbucks. at&t covers 97% of all americans.

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♪ sir, it seems to me interesting that 12 of you are republicans and four are running for governor. is this politics? four running for governor. >> well, i am running for governor. and nancy pelosi is running for her seat. and hear rearry reid is running his seat this year. what we're arguing is the federal government has never -- congress has never said to americans that part of the price of being an american citizen is that you have to buy something. here for the first time ever, we have to buy something. we have to buy health insurance

or the federal government is going to fine us. that has never happened in our 200-plus years of history. >> all right. welcome back to "morning joe." 36 past the hour. here with us now, joining the conversation, editor and publisher of "the nation" katrina vanden heuvel. in t"the washington post" katria writes this, the legislation is only one step in a long process. just as it is too soon to write the final chapter of history of roosevelt's new deal it is too early to judge obama's reforms. leaders, activist groups and citizens must continue the fight to improve the health care legislation's protections and fix its flaws. there will be changes. >> there will be changes. it's the history of the struggle for reform in our country. when social security was passed, it's not what we know of it now. when medicare was passed. so it is important that citizens fight to improve and leaders. i mean, you have brown on soon.

he has a medicare for all piece of legislation. the public option was dropped from this bill. but at the same time as president obama said the other day, this is a major reform. the not a radical reform. but it provides security for millions of americans. and i think for that reason, we should celebrate it. and now we should fight to improve on it. but those are -- >> you have only begun to fight. >> we have only just begun. >> to expand the federal government's footprint in the lives of americans. >> you know, this is -- you're going to laugh, joe -- >> no, i won't. >> you're in a feisty mode this morning. >> i am. >> but this is a conservative piece of legislation in many ways because it builds on the private market. the public option was dropped. it's more akin to sort of nixon's expansion of medical insurance than it is the new deal or even medicare, which had strong public components. but i think what's so striking to me is whether you agree or disagree with this piece of

legislation, the venom, the racism and homophobia that has come out of a party that's been on the wrong side of history for the 20st century is something -- >> i do think that republicans should take a good, long look back at how restrained and how disciplined and how civil democrats were during george w. bush's eight years. and, perhaps, they could learn some lessons. because, you know, you look at the caricatures that americans have to see. the nazi images. i think democrats drew a much better likeness of george bush as adolf hitler than democrats did. >> but, joe, joe, let's make a distinction. >> no, there is no distinction. >> there were maybe a few of those posters at rallies. >> a few? >> we're talking people inside the republican party using language, using rhetoric -- >> the hate speech on both sides is ridiculous.

willie was talking about the nation's advertisements. listen, i'm all for marketing but you have a halo over barack obama's head and george bush has like devil horns. >> have you heard of irony? but my -- >> oh, irony now. >> my larger point -- first of all, read "the nation," the editorial from t"the washington post" is drawn from "the nation" and we have been always holding president obama accountable. you cannot accuse "the nation" of being soft on barack obama. >> no, i'm not. all i'm saying is there have been despicable things said on the right but let's not predend despicable things were not said about george bush. i'm hearing polls like 24% think he's the anti-christ. that's horrible. in '03 there was a poll out that said 35% of democrats thought george w. bush was responsible for 9/11. there are crazies on both sides. >> but i think the machinery of the right -- and you as a true

conservative have to concede, it seems to me, that the machinery on the right, the powerful elements of the right, use language on the left or progressive community, this language was not part of the central piece of the progressive community. we're talking rush limbaugh. we're talking glenn beck. these are major figures. >> air america, we can talk about what people said on air america. i could talk about what people have said on other networks, some very, very harsh things about -- again, i'm not saying -- >> but in terms of the larger issue today, i do think that the civilizing advances of our time, and i'm talking about civil rights movement, women's right movement, civil rights movement, equality, social justice, ending child labor, the republican party in almost every case has opposed those reforms. >> i thought it was southern democrats that opposed civil right in the 1960s. i thought -- >> i'm talking about late in the

game. who was opposed to the civil rights act? who was opposed to the civil rights act? i'm talking about the major legislation. >> southern democrats were. southern democrats were. >> but it was the democrats who passed it. >> no, democrats who mainly opposed it, too. >> let us -- come to this moment. >> i'm not being feisty. can we just let americans know, we like each other a lot. okay. >> i think we like each other, but, joe -- yeah, listen -- >> she hates me. >> i think she recoiled. >> i'm going to push back this chair. >> no, no, listen, i enjoy jousting with you. but i do think if people could gather around tables in this country, there would be a little less demonization. >> i agree. >> i think it's scary what's going on. >> i could ask you you're a marxist and how how your trip was to russia. >> there's that guy from nunaz

from california. we had just returned from moscow about there's a big debate about diversifying their economy. this guy from california's going on about soviet totalarian coming to our shores. my husband says, where are we going to go? you have capitalism of a weird kind there. the language is so disconnected from reality in this country. >> it is disconnected. >> it is laughable -- >> there's a congressman that said -- it is laughable. there's certain congressmen that had a press release the night this bill came out. i hate this bill. i think it is bad for our economy. but he said, tonight freedom died. really? >> i know. >> i didn't know that. and, again, high pewe need to h debate like we're having here. >> you had a good question earlier. you were talking to senator

demint -- by the way, i think this is their waterloo. demint said health care would be the president's waterl waterloo. i mean, i think this is the beginning of a reform when you can say to a child, you're not denied coverage or his mother or father, you will not be denied korvelg because insurance companies say you can't do it because of preexisting conditions. these are important reforms. it's on the road to major reform. that is the struggle. and the interesting thing about being in russia was to see gorbachev marking the 25th anniversary of his transformation -- >> is he -- >> is he still with us? >> is he loathed over there? >> no, he's not. >> it's asurprising his approval ratings were so low when we painted him such a hero. >> he ended the cold war, in partnership with reagan but it was his doing -- >> oh, good lord, his doing.

you can't even talk about the cold war without getting it wrong. >> i said that in partnership with reagan. i used -- >> he had no choice. >> that's not true. >> see, i thought we could talk russia and unify. now she's trying to give gorbachev credit. >> my point is gate reform leaders often don't end what they started. that's what i mean. even the fight for what roosevelt started goes on with the effort to regulate a crisis-prone economic system. and i think the reforms on the table are inadequate to the scale of the cries and we'll go over the cliff again -- >> katrina, i think you would probably -- i'm not sure. let me try it. i guess you would probably disagree with me and my belief that this vote, historians will look back as this sz the high-water mark of american liberalism. that this was the swan's song. this was the left wing's abbey road. after this, the band breaks up because they don't have any money -- >> you know what i think?

>> and they're going to wash dishes. >> i think we're a more decent country today. the character of our country is more decent. we have given dignity to millions of people. the fight goes on. but to say what you said is just totally wrong. >> and she said it with a smile. you know what, you are exactly right. people need -- this is exciting, by the way. >> we need to sit around kitchen tables. >> we do. we have two completely different world views but let's talk it out. this is exciting for me -- >> but our media doesn't let us enough because it's pitched as against, you know, always against, the food fight. we need a media that allows the full range of views. >> and that takes time. >> because i believe what i believe and small government conservativism. you believe what you believe. let's have that debate. >> all right. >> and do it politely. >> all right. >> just do not ever give gorbachev credit again for -- >> i will never, ever stop giving him credit. >> katrina, if you could just

try not to recoil when joe says he likes you, that would be good, too. i mean, she physically recoiled. >> i will try. >> she's got friends she wants to keep. >> katrina vanden heuvel, thank you. >> thank you. >> we love having you on. willie, what's coming up next? >> well, we're going to check in with the vice president joe biden. >> oh, please. >> we love him. >> please, do that. >> he put the exexclamation mark on the end of the health care debate, speaking the truth with joe biden when "morning joe" comes back. [ male announcer ] nature valley sweet & salty nut bars... they're made from whole roasted nuts and dipped in creamy peanut butter, making your craving for a sweet & salty bar irresistible, by nature valley. ♪ ahh ♪ ahh

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. i don't know why i'm smiling at this picture. just missed the bus. >> it's a horrible picture. hey, so just how big of a deal was tuesday's signing ceremony? >> it was a big deal. >> vice president joe biden a little too eager perhaps. i don't think. >> no, it's a big deal. >> to share that question, just how big of a deal it was. with the president. >> reporter: the thing about historic moments is there are microphones to capture them.

and on tuesday prosperity got an earful. whoa. wait. what? damage control was instant and brief. the white house press secretary tweeted, yes, mr. president, you are right. but the president's face seemed to fall as they looked at those two microphones in front of him. no doubt that the f bomb exploded in people's earses throughout the country. there are t-shirts being hawked. em blazened in black and white. >> within three minutes of being presented on the site. >> reporter: but to others it was more of a teachable one. >> i'm really disappointed. >> reporter: mckay hatch, the founder of the no cussig club.

>> he using that language says that cussing is fine. >> reporter: it probably was a pressure valve. under certain circumstances, profanity actually provides a relieve even denied to prayer. still, there is something about solemnly swearing but for some politicians, they just team to take it to literally. president george bush was caught creatively cursing and a california assembly man was taped bragging about his extramarital affairs. dprz even ronald reagan, the great communicator, had some not so great communicating moments. >> i'm pleased to tell you today that i've signed legislation that we begin bombing in five minutes. >> reporter: in the end, the vice president's boss can't be too mad.

because, after all, the president has let it rip. too. unfortunate words. unfortunately close to a minor. lee cowen, nbcc. >> we don't advocate violence here but the kid upset about the language, if something happened in that school today. >> you know what i'm doing to that little weasel? i'm kicking them to kick his [ bleep ] . that's ridiculous. >> did you just say that? that's unacceptable. >> no, it isn't. a revealing look at how americans will vote in the midterm. we're going to take a look at the new polls hot off the press. also, congressman mike pens. all ahead on "morning joe" next. national car rental? that's my choice.

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our generation is able to succeed in passing this reform is a testament to the per sis tense of the american people and

to the historic leadership and uncommon courage of the men and women of the united states congress, who have taken their lumps during this difficult debate. >> yes, we did. >> all right. welcome back. almost the top of the hour. welcome to "morning joe." we're still talking about the kid -- >> he was deeply saddened. >> deeply saddened. >> and you say nothing. please. >> lee could you went probably found this kid by googling the word "geek". >> no. >> i'm just telling the truth. >> to defend joe biden. >> exactly. going to beat this boy up? >> yeah. >> i don't think it's going to

be too hard. >> they will, too. >> all right. >> i feel bad. >> joe biden was just excited. >> so was donny deutsch yesterday. >> it's a big deal. >> seriously. you've got your little red books out, everybody was signing the autographs. >> the largest middle class tax cut in history. >> it's just a lie. >> that is not. >> that is just a lie. you can say what you want to say. but, again, read the cbo -- >> yes, read it. >> the joint tax committee tax document. there's no $500 billion in tax cuts here. >> the most spending in this bill goes to tax cuts to the middle class. >> are you accusing dick daughtdurbin? >> no, i am not. >> now it's okay? >> senator brown is coming up. he's a huge cleveland indians'

fan. the one question that i have about this bill. >> yep. >> and i didn't major in economics. i can't even balance my checkbook. >> not good at his tax stuff. >> how do we butt 30 million new people on to basically a health payroll, give them health insurance, and it cost us nothing? >> it doesn't. it doesn't. >> can i give you the really simple answer there? >> yes. >> again, this is why conservatives have better argument, because americans aren't dumb. they know that you don't add 30 million people to the health care rolls without cutting medicare and by raising taxes. that's the way you do it. cut medicare, raise taxes. now, as somebody that's been saying for a very long time, we have got to slow down the rate of growth from medicare, democrats would say, that's what you've been talking about. not to start a new entitlement program. see, this is the unbelievable

thing. i've been saying this. i read about it in the book. minimal. because, think about it. george w. bush faced with huge deficits, huge dents. what did he do? he said, let's get involved in health care and we're going to create a $7 trillion new entitlement program. the largest expansion of entitlement program -- >> with no way to pay for it. >> with no way to pay for it. what does he do? he passes the largest new entitlement program as democrats say since 1964 and americans are going to either -- okay. biggest deficit, the biggest national debt ever. we've been told that the chinese are going to own us. the ark of the deficits explode. and these people in washington, first bush and now obama. first republicans and now democrats. they are all doing the same thing. spin, spin, spin. the hell with nick barnacle and

joey scarborough. it's generational theft. and i know democrats are going to get angry because republicans got angry when i said the same thing to them back in 2004. >> so do you ever think there's going to be a time when public people running for public office will have the courage to stand up and say, we have to have this tax increase or -- >> they will have no choice. you know what? you can keep driving that car and it can keep -- and this happens to me a lot growing up. you can keep driving that car and keep seeing low fuel, low fuel. i'm like, i'm going to be taking it another five miles. >> i do that all the time. >> eventually when you run out of gas, you've got no choice. you've got to just stop riding the pedal. >> you know, in an atmosphere that you described in which we have all of these different challenges to our society, you would think that something like this could not get done.

that other presidents have tried in better situations and they haven't been able to accomplish it. this president has been able to accomplish something that others have not. >> yeah. but it's just like people able to buy two or three houses when they can't even afford to pay the mortgages. they did that pretty well, too. we're still in the same era. we're spending money we don't have. people are going to pay in the polls. and republicans paid before. i think democrats are going to pay. and i'm still waiting for a party. a real conservative party to emerge. i don't know when that's going to happen. >> that would be maybe -- maybe now is the time. we'll see. look at the rising number of independents as well. time now for today's top stories. let's frame all that has happened. after more than a year of debate, health care reform is now a reality. president obama signed the bill into law during a ceremony yesterday.

the president is describing the change as an historic change for the country with continued opposition against it. >> i heard one of the republican leaders say, this was going to be armageddon. well, two months from now, six months from now, you can check it out. we'll look around. and we'll see. you don't have to take my word for it. >> although the bill is now law, the senate will continue debate on a package of changes that the house made to the legislation. republicans are adding several amendments to try and keep democrats from pressing ahead on a quick vote. the amendments include plans to bar erectile dysfunction drugs to sex offenders, keep congress from lecturing americans about fiscal responsibility and eliminate sweetheart deals. according to a new gallup poll, 49% think it's a good thing, 40%

think it's a bad thing, and 11% are undenieded. do you think that the health care bill passed by congress, and the gallup tracking poll, the president's approval rating goes from 51% to 43% a democrat from owe high kbrhio -- >> you know, the low scale on the payroll, i didn't want to upset him. it's too early in the morning. >> is he going to have to suffer through a indian season. >> rooting for the white sox is like rooting for the drug companies. >> wait a minute. >> that's the yankees. you can't say that. >> the red sox have become a lot like the yankees. big machine. >> that's correct. >> their fans are just a little

bit over the edge and it's just uncomfortable for the rest of us. >> senator, joe morgan said on tv one time, baseball has got to be the greatest sport ever because the owners have tried to ruin it for a hundred years. any way, back to business. >> senator, i saw you sit one night in fenway park right across from me at a red sox-yankee game and you were rooting hard for the red sox. >> no, it was a red sox-indian game. get your story straight. i would never go to a red sox/yankee game because i wouldn't know what to eat. any way, go ahead. >> all right. >> thank you for being with us. good to see you again. >> all right. no. let's talk about the health care bill. obviously making its way to the senate untouched.

is that possible or would it be sent back to the snous what do you see happening? >> it's going to be done this week. we're going to be in -- we were in -- actually, i closed down the senate last night with senator white house. we were there to 11:30 last night. >> were you guys drinking? >> that's how long we were working on -- >> whatever. >> we will do votes all day today, all night, all day tomorrow, and we'll bring it to a final vote and we'll finish it this week. >> okay. so we're debating whether this is the largest middle class tax cut in history, which joe disagrees with. how is it being paid for and is there sort of a second part of that story? for example, small businesses. of course, they have to buy the insurance and they are going to be forced to buy it. does it get paid for somehow within those parameters? >> people have to get insurance. everybody, until the republican

and obstructionism, almost anybody that paid attention to this said, the only way for this to work is for everybody to have insurance. it doesn't force small businesses to do that. the first thing this bill does, starting today, i believe, maybe starting a month from now, i'm not sure, is give small business tax breaks so they can begin to cover their employees. most employers i know want to cover their employees. they simply can't afford to. especially if you have 20 employees, one of them gets sick, gets a very serious illness, you lose your insurance, or you can't afford it anymore. so small business will love having this tax break and, you know, once this is up and running, small business would be able to go into a larger pool, which will help blunt those price spikes and make insurance much more accessible to those small companies. >> senator, there's much to like in this bill. >> i think there is. >> the component parts of the bill, my question to you, coming

from a true economic illiterate, is this. this bill adds perhaps as many as 30 million people on to health plans. how do we pay for that? >> well, first, right now, in some sense you're already paying for it. everybody that has insurance, whether it's public or private insurance, everybody that has insurance, is paying about $1,000 a year or more because you pay for people to go to the emergency room that have an asthma attack or you pay for some mother with a child that has asthma. they get their diabetes and asthma managed. every family should have a family doctor. that should start to happen in this family in the next five years. and much of that just shifts to paying for it the right way at the right stage of an illness

until waiting for it to get much, much worse. one of the things that this bill will do right away, every senior citizen will get a checkup with no co-pay. that will help with medicare savings because seniors will not be diagnosed with something six years later when they could have gotten a physical with no charge of a physical and find out something earlier. >> so is there something in the bill that is going to add to the internists? because there's a low number of internists. >> we don't have enough, that's a legitimate criticisms, and that's one of the things that this bill works on. there is more money for training, more outreach, that kind of thing. and i think we're going to see, in a lot of these community

health centers, it will help a lot of centers, rural, inner ring suburbs, rural areas. and these we won't begin to train and attract far more internists, family practitioners, general pediatricians, nurses, nurse practitioners that will play a role in the health care system. >> senator, i'm a yankee's fan. you were the biggest advocate for the public option. as component parts like that started to fall away, we heard democrats, progressives expressing frustration with the process and the president. how do you feel this morning? are you happy with the law that the president signed yesterday? >> it was so exciting yesterday. of course i'm not perfectly happy and satisfied with

everything. but it was a huge victory. again, all of the things that are going to start happening now, people with insurance are going to have consumer protections that they've never had. i stand on the senate floor every day and read letters from constituents, from toledo to mansfield and what almost all of those letters say is, a year ago i was satisfied with my insurance and then i got sick and then my child got some condition and i don't have insurance anymore or i can't afford it or it's so expensive that it's not really insurance. so i think that this bill is such a huge step forward for our country. of course i wanted the public option. i wanted medicare for all. but this is a huge progress and we're going to continue to improve it. senator kennedy always said, the fight for reform never ends. there are lots of things we'll want to do as we see how this bill unfolds in the next four years. >> let me -- let's get something clarified here. there's been a back and forth here with lawrence o'donnell here talking about the penalties that people would be hit with if

they didn't get health insurance. i think that it went up to 2.5% of american's incomes. lawrence said that part was stripped out and now the irs, nobody can actually collect these fees. i'm confused. is there going to be a penalty for people that don't buy health insurance, or not? >> my understanding is there is. i think that you do need a penalty but you also need subsidies for lower income people. i mean, it's so important that everybody -- that almost everybody gets insurance. because if you're 25 years old, you don't want to get insurance, you're in a car accident, it costs $40,000 to fix you up, everybody else pays it. >> so there's confusion out there, senator. so, again, to clarify, from your understanding, there is still the provision in here that says, if you don't buy health insurance, then you will be pen nalized to a certain amount, up to 2.5% of your income? >> i think it's 2%. but i'm not 100% clear on that.

i think there is a penalty in there. and there should be. there needs to be a way to enforce getting people to buy insurance. because a 25-year-old doesn't want to typically spend very much money at all on insurance, no matter their income often times. and we need incentives for them to buy that insurance but help for them because they are mostly low income. but don't forget in this bill, something that is really important for people that have sons and daughters in their early 20s, you come home from school, 20 years old, if you're lucky enough to find a job, it doesn't have insurance and you're able to stay on your parents' health care plan. that's a very important improvement and that takes place right away. >> so the penalties for kids don't start until they get off of their parents' plan? >> absolutely not. correct. >> senator, how is that legislation going that you're about to introduce to problem hibt the indians from trading brady sizemore? >> i want to make sure that they

don't trade him from the crankies to the red sox. >> senator brown, thank you so much. come back so. as we go to break, senator hillary clinton delivering remarks on pakistan. the pakistani government wants to be recognized as a nuclear power. that's next when we come back. preparing relations with israel. we'll bring in congressman mike pence who says that president obama is bullying the state. mystery writer, harl harlan coben, takes us inside his latest thriller. first, a check on the forecast. bill? >> pouring rain at boston's airport. sunny and brees zzy in new york. the forecast looks great. new york, philly, d.c., looks

fine. only problem area is denver where they reported six to 12 inches of snow. be careful driving there this morning. the rest of the country looks just fine. you're watching "morning joe." ♪ happy anniversary

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welcome back to "morning joe." a live look at new york city. with the signature, obama seals the health care victory. >> j.p. morgpmorgan is nearing

deal and the little known plank in an economic stimulus bill. meg whitman has swamped california with a tsunami of ads. the former ceo has spent $40 million, the most spent by a candidate in california. the next big economic bust, real estate prices in china have risen for nine months. a bubble burst there could sharply decline the need for exports. jim is back with a look at the morning play book. hey, jim. >> hi, how are you doing? >> i'm good. let's talk about sarah palin and the hit list she's putting out on facebook. with the president signing this unwanted and transformative government takeover of our health care system today, with

promises impossible to keep, let's not get discouraged, palin writes. we're paying particular attention to the congressmen who voted in favor and i carried in in the 2008 election. we're going to hold them accountable for this disastrous obama health care vote. >> i think the important point she makes is that she's going to focus on districts that mccain won. those seem to be pretty conservative districts and the democrats tend to be moderate and socialist. i think where she can pay a big role is firing up the conservative base. where we have a low turnout, it's the activists that turn out. if she can go in there and fire up conservatives and get them to turn out in these elections, that can make a big difference in close raceses.

a no one has the ability to generate a big audience and generate enthusiasm like sarah palin. she's combined her celebrity, she's going to yank this deal to do a reality show with her political power, which was clear from the last campaign and her ability to draw crowds and raise money now. >> we know she's handy with a gun, there are grocross hairs, e complaints that virginia comes to mind where she went to come pain and the government lost. some places where she won't be invited. >> you're being looking at a moderate district or swing district where republicans are fielding a moderate candidate. i don't think sarah palin fits the bill at all. most of the candidates would run away from sire ra palin. she remains toxic to politics.

she's one of those figures -- either you love her or you hate her. there's very few people that say, i don't have a feeling about sarah palin. she has to go to a place where there's a lot of conservatives. i think her ability to excite act vifrts is unmatched and if used strategically, if you look at that list, they are thinking where she could be helpful. >> we have chuck todd on in the last hour, talking about benjamin netanyahu and then a second meeting when chuck asked the white house, what should we read into the fact that there was no cameras, no nothing, should i read between the lines? and they said, yes, you should read between the lines. >> you don't have to read between the lines. it's one of our closest allies invited into town and essential meetings and do nothing in front of the camera, no celebration of

the relationship between israel and the united states. it's a clear signal from the white house that, listen, we're not happy with your decision to expand settlement in disputed territory. that's caused a tremendous amount of tension and there's been a lot of tension even before this latest showdown with israel. i don't think obama has been nearly in his support of israel as george bush was and this was unnerving to the israeli government. and it's unclear that this relationship is marked by a tremendous amount of tension and i think obama is trying to think about how do deal with this and he's engaging the palestinians more closely, i think, than bush did. and obviously that rankles the israelis. >> i think most of the staging is done by dan and hillary clinton, joe biden, how do we

deal with the optics of this? when it comes to signal sending. >> thank you so much. we'll be checking ut out on politico.com. coming up next, erin burnett. and don't forget to watch our town hall on education. great expectations. tomorrow, live, from tampa florida, look at the lineup on guests. they will be here tomorrow. we'll be back in just a moment.

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good morning. welcome back to "morning joe." let's get a check on the new york stock exchange with erin burnett.

>> this ipo is a big situation. that means that people are willing to take risks on tested companies. they have been doing that left and right. we've had the biggest one in several weeks this week. it was an insurance company out of japan. and today we have something called first interstate bank system. $145 million is what they are raising. it's the first ipo of a u.s. bank since 2007. and it priced within its range, which means that they put a rang out there, they didn't have to go well below it. to give you a perspective, first interstate bank operates in three of the most fiscally responsible rates, better unemployment rates, didn't have any of the -- or as much of the financial shen nan begins. so it's coming out of a strong part of the country. we have a couple other ipos today. so risk appears to be back. we're going to have a lower open but it's ended up higher, market ended up higher yesterday. we'll see.

almost 1,000 points higher in the last six weeks. >> all right. i've got to ask erin about this google deal. so china made its move yesterday in the chess game. they are blocking the content and going through hong kong. >> yes. >> talk about this from a business point of view, though. is google taking a risk by alienating china? >> yes. absolutely they are taking a risk. people say, they had 30% chance of the market. this must hit them. it's really not true. they only get 1.5% of their revenue from china. so it's not a big deal. and a lot of the -- competitively they were not able to make it work. their big rival was doing it with government help and government winks and nods. the point is, google could not make end roads to make a huge operator to get revenue from china. they were able to take the moral high road in this case.

but in the future, willy, there are 1.2, 1.3 billion people in china. >> yeah. >> google doesn't want to be in a position where they can't get a piece of that. >> right. >> it's almost impossible at this point to imagine how you can be a company in this world without presence in china. they are taking a big risk. >> i saw yesterday, 400 million internet users in china, 300 million citizens of the united states comparably. it's a huge market. >> that gives us some perspective. >> how are the markets looking today? >> we're going to have a lower open but, again, people are going to be focused on the ipos. and one other thing that you all mentioned, that article in usa today, the one about the real estate frenzy in china, there is a real estate frenzy in china. there is no question about it. the question is whether bursting would really hurt. they are building empty buildings in china right now and

they know it to employ people because china has the extra cash to do that. so the definition of a bubble there is a little different than here. >> all right. >> plus, if they stop buying our stuff like that article said, maybe we wouldn't -- >> erin burnett. >> auto parts. >> thank you very much. erin, we'll talk to you soon. coming up next, congressman mike pence of indiana. keep it right here on "morning joe" brewed by starbucks. vo: you know the feeling. the thrill of the save. that secret high from stretching a dollar. that little rush in finding what you need for less.

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you know, i keep hearing you every morning talking about the biggest tax increase in history but you don't mention that it's also the biggest tax cut in history. we have almost $500 billion in tax cuts and the tax cuts go to small businesses to help pay for health insurance premiums. they are going to go to individuals that can't afford their health insurance premiums. it really is going to make certain that everybody has a chance for affordable health insurance. >> all right. with us now, republican from indiana and chair of the house republican conference, congressman mike pence joining the conversation. good to have you back on the show, sir. >> dick durbin says this is the largest tax increase in history. comment? i'm sorry. the largest tax cut in u.s. history. i'm so thrown off by it. what do you think? >> well, i saw it this morning live on the treadmill, guys, and i almost tripped and flew off

the back of the thing. $569 billion in tax increases. it mandates that every american buy health insurance, whether they want it or need it or not and it mandates that every business regulate their employees to a government-run plan. it's going to add to deficits and to debt. but, hey, they want to say that premium subsidies are thrown around in here. more power to them. >> that's what i want to ask you, though. because he said that there are over $500 billion in tax cuts. where are the tax cuts coming from because i read the cbo report and the joint committee for taxation. i saw nothing about tax cuts. i saw everything about $435 billion in tax increases. >> well, actually, our number was $569 billion in job tax increases during the worst recession in 25 years. you mentioned this morning, joe,

that raising taxes at a time when you're trying to get people to invest, american people are not confused -- >> can i stop you right there? because i do really want a democrat to come on and explain how a small business owner that has four or five people make as wise investment, that make $200,000 a year. if you make a smart investment. and this is what washington is saying. if you create jobs and opportunity and hope, we're going to punish you. but if you make a stupid investment that costs jobs, makes people unemployed, you can write that off to the irs. >> yeah. well, i hope you get one of them on to explain the comment this morning. >> don't understand. >> look, i'm just telling you, the american people are not confused by this. the white house is understandably taking a victory lap and chuck todd was saying that they are all on cloud seventh morning. that's fine. the american people, frankly,

are in a state of shock that the american congress passed legislation that is decisive majority of americans in this country did not want him to pass. one more speech about the same bad plan isn't going to change any american minds. >> mike barnacle. >> i've heard you and several other members talk about your concern, a concern that a lot of people share about the growth of government. and some people view the passage of this health bill as another step in the increasing growth of governments. so my question to you is, knowing that you believe government is too big, give me specific examples of government programs that you'd like to cut, that you'd like to see disappear. >> obama care. how is that, mike? >> that's a good start. >> you know, how about a trillion dollar government takeover of health care that they are telling the american people are going to save them money. look, mike, we are running this year a $1.6 trillion deficit.

the american people see a mountain range of borrowing and spending and bailouts and take overs and i really do think that we're moving into an environment where republicans and democrats and independents are ready for leadership that is willing to sit down at the table and make the hard choices and i hope to be a part of that at some point in the near future because we have to be. the truth is, this country going bankrupt and by this administration and this congress, we just greatly accelerated america's path way to bankruptcy with the launch of this obama care program. but the american people are going to turn it around. this will not stand. let me say that again. this will not stand. the american people are require that the american congress and this administration put our fiscal house in order or they are going to replace the american congress and replace this administration with men and women who will. >> apart from obama care, the

department of agriculture, the department of interior, are there programs that you'd like to see cut in order to reduce the size of government? >> we've proposed half a trillion dollars in cuts in order to pay for the cost of repairing the gulf coast after katrina. you can go back and dig that up. i've been on the record. we've proposed a spending limit to the constitution. i think we can holdover all spending and entitlement reform without breaking any promises to the american people. you know, we've got to stop this continuous growth of government, borrowing, spending, bailouts, takeovers and instead of telling the american people that we're going to save them money. again, only in washington, d.c., can you spend a trillion dollars and tell the american people

you're going to save them money. >> you know, mike, we saw after this bill passed, there were press releases sent out and certainly a lot of people on the right putting this in terms, can you calm everybody down and let the republicans know that they win by arguing the facts and not screaming at the top of their lungs and that this is actually a very good opportunity to debate the real differences between democrats and republicans, what they believe about what the federal government should do and what small conservatives believe that the federal government should do. >> i think they equipped themselves very well in the debate. they were plenty calm but they were firm. and, quite frankly, this is an issue of freedom. you have the federal government mandating that every american buy health insurance, whether they want it or need it or not, and then authorizing the hiring of 16,000 new irs agents to make sure that americans are purchasing government-approved

health insurance. that is a restriction on freedom. and, frankly, you know, requiring americans to support a health care program that provides public funding for elected abortion is also a restriction of their freedom and these are all very real, when you insert the government -- >> given the choice between that vision of america and your vision of america that your vision of america will prevail? >> absolutely confident. i think that's why the majority of the american people were with us and are still with us on health care reform that gives them more choices and not more government. i mean, we can scrap this bill, repeal this bill and immediately start over by allowing americans to purchase across state lines, pass malpractice reform, cover pre-existing conditions that your beloved son has. we don't need to answer this

with more government, more deficits, and more debt. and that's what congress in the administration did yesterday. >> so you support the pre-existing part of this bill and some of these other reforms? >> well, not the way that they -- my wife had a pre-existing condition. i lost my job 15 years ago. my wife was pregnant with our third child and we had to go to the state guarantee fund, the insurance of last resort in many states, and we bought the insurance there so she could go to term in the hospital. it was very, very expensive. republicans have proposed, let's pass medical malpractice reform and use the savings in grants in the states to strengthen those funds. we can answer this with more choice and more freedom and not more government. again, i want to say, obama care, this will not stand. the american people are going to back hard and i don't know if it's in the near term or long term. >> congressman pence, thank you very much for your perspective.

>> thank you, mike. >> thank you. when we come back, harl harlan coben takes us inside his later thriller. that's next on "morning joe." here, kitty! here, kitty!

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welcome back to "morning joe." harlan coben is here with the suspense thriller "caught." look at the ad. good lord. you think it's big enough, harlan? >> it's a number one "new york times" best seller. it's amazing. all right. so it's good to have you here. >> great to be here. >> i appreciate that you have the world now knowing -- is that the "new york times"? >> yes. >> i've got to tell you, this book is set in my home town. it's suburban new year see jersey. right outside of new york city. tell the people. >> one is a 17-year-old girl who one day, an a student, goes

missing. three months past, they don't know what happened to her. and the inspiration was watching one of those catch the predator type shows and wondering, what would i do if i saw somebody on this show that i knew? what if it was somebody that i new and trusted? what i believe them? these stories come together and shocks the entire community and hopefully will shock the reader. you'll be surprised by the way it ends. >> we have a very an aprop pree eighty tie in. >> you'll find an excuse not to write and say, first, let's put aluminum siding on the house, everything to avoid that moment. so i need the white noise and i've been writing for years at different starbucks. i move around to keep people at bay. >> and even if you're out of your house on a computer, i wonder how the yankees are doing. there's no safe place to go

anymore. >> how does his description of your neighborhood, your town -- >> he lives there. it's right on. it's a bedroom community, leafy green. but i thank god, at least in my lifetime, that nothing like this actually happened in that town. so where did you base all of your story? >> what i always find fascinating about the american suburbs is it's the great american dream. we're supposed to get married, move out, have a picket fence, the kids, the 2.4 kids, the dog. and life is supposed to be perfect. and, of course, where those dreams come true, it's a good place to set a book. these people are always doing their best but wrong seems to find them. >> how did you become a best-selling novelist. >> i was working in the travel industry but political science major in college, which is, i have no idea what i want to do with my life.

>> uh-huh. >> and i just started to write these stories and i love suspense. the first line of "caught" is, i knew opening that red door would ruin my life. >> brings you in. >> yeah. >> i love it. >> and there's inspiration from the "dateline" correspondence. >> the show, to catch a predator, was the inspiration. fiction is already, what if. imagine watching a show and all of a sudden somebody you you know is on it. suppose he was innocent. suppose we didn't know. >> all right. >> boy hood friend of -- >> chris christie. we played little league together. >> so he's 40? >> yes, he is. he was a heck of a good catcher. >> we're working together. he and i are going to could be lal great on new jersey health and he's going to lose weight and become a marathon runner.

what do you think? do you think he can do it? >> i think you have your work cut out for you. >> wish me luck. >> harlan, thank you. the book "caught." an amazing "new york times" best seller number one. we'll be right back. (announcer) the sinus triple threat. (announcer) not just sinus headache... ahhhh! but pressure... and congestion. introducing sudafed pe® triple action™. for more complete relief from the sinus triple threat. sudafed pe® triple action™. more complete relief.

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ladies and gentlemen, the president of the united states

of america, barack obama. >> let me just say, this was a great show. >> a great show. >> it really was. what did you learn today? >> i learned that the young boy out in pasadena that was offended by vice president biden -- he's going to get a visit from the barnacle boys. >> and senator brown trashed me. >> sometimes you deserve it. >> yeah. >> and, also, no problem finding people without health insurance. >> we're going to fine you $2,000 for not having health insurance. >> what did you learn? >> tomorrow is a big event. tomorrow, great expectations. it's a town hall hall.