let me finish tonight with something wonderful. it's how things work out in a good, democratic society. when the democrats lost that big election up in massachusetts when a new fellow in a truck and from the other party won that seat held by ted kennedy all those years, it got a certain message across. the people running the government knew they needed to sharpen up. the democrats needed to get their rear in gear. that loss in massachusetts gave the dems the kick in the pants they needed. the president went up to baltimore to meet with the republicans. he called a supplementity meeting at blair house and all of it gave him and his people the time to get a plan together, to find that magical way you only find when you really look hard for it. you know, show time. that way came when somebody came up with the idea of using the legislative route known as reconciliation. not to bypass the rules of the senate but to put those rules to a novel, new use. the senate passed a version of health care reform with a filibuster-proof 60 votes. the democrats would now use the reconciliation procedure to reconcile that senate bill with

something the house of representatives could accept. so first the house passed the senate bill last sunday along with the reconciliation bill. then the senate passed a reconciliation bill today. the house will pass that same slightly revised bill tonight. passed by 60 votes in the senate, a month joert reconciled by use of reconciliation. "the washington post" gave credit for using reconciliation not as an alternative to getting 60 votes in the senate but as a complement to it, jim messina working on capitol hill, learning to do the work of the american people. yes, the system works. old ideas meet new institutions and weapon the people find new ways to use old tools. it's creeky, it's messy, it's as winston churchill once observed, the worst form of government, except for all the others that have been tried from time to time. that's "hardball" for now.

thanks for being with us. catch us tomorrow night at 5:00 and 7:00 eastern. "countdown" with keith old olbermann starts now. which of these stories will you be talking about tomorrow? in the face of death threats and anger after the health care vote, republican congressman eric cantor steps up to the mikes, ignores his party's months of lies and actually blames democrats. >> by ratcheting up the rhetoric, some will only inflame these situations to dangerous levels. >> tonight we'll talk to representative harry mitchell, a democrat of arizona, a man on sarah palin's target list who is now receiving phone calls like this.

>> you are always going to have to look over your [ bleep ] shoulder, because people in your district hate your [ bleep ] face. >> what reactions like that do to our democracy, with melissa harris lacewell. president obama goes to iowa to explain the health reform law and tells the gop, go for it. take the side of the insurance companies. >> if they want to have that fight, we can have it. because i don't believe that the american people are going to putt the insurance industry back in the driver's seat. >> this, as the final votes are cast in the senate and the house. a witness to history. 11-year-old marcelas owens by the president's side for the historic signing. >> he and i made sure to coordinate our ties.

yeah, it looks good. >> marcelas joins us to talk about the day he saw history being written. and a dark day for david frum. after saying this about his fellow republicans. >> we went the radical way looking for waterloo and it looks like we arrived at waterloo. >> his republican think tank has fired him. all that and more, now on "countdown." >> are they going to repeal this? good evening from new york. i'm lawrence o'donnell in for keith olbermann. it is a page straight out of the karl rove playbook, attack your opponent for your own weakness. as in draft dodger dick cheney attacks john kerry for being soft on defense of the country. today house minority whip eric cantor apparently consulted the rove playbook before he accused democrats of fanning the flames of violence in the wake of the health care reform vote. not to be outdone, karl rove himself said more or less the same thing.

new threats today against democratic lawmakers, most notably in new york, where fbi hazmat crews responded to a call from anthony weiner's office after the congressman received a letter containing a suspicious white powder. and one received death threats and angry phone calls over his health care vote, like this one. >> hi, mr. mitchell. for the rest of your life, with the vote that you cast, you are going to have to look over your shoulder for as long as you live in this district. you are always going to have to look over your [ bleep ] shoulder, because people in your district hate your [ bleep ] face. and don't you forget it. you have just riled up people's rage. we are filled with rage and hate today towards you.

hate like we have never, ever felt. i love my insurance company, and to have you come in between me and my [ bleep ] doctor, i cannot tell you how much i wish a panty bomber would come in and just blow your [ bleep ] place up. >> republicans say they've been targeted with threatening phone calls, too, like this one received by ohio congresswoman jean schmidt. >> you and boehner and [ bleep ] mitch mcconnell, all you racist republicans, why don't you change your party name to racist? >> the richmond police indicate it may have been fired into the sky and as it fell back to the earth at a sharp angle, the bullet hit the front window of the building that houses canter's office.

>> it is reckless to use these incidents as media vehicles for political gain. that is why i have deep concerns that some dccc chairman chris van holen and tim kaine in particular are dangerously fanning the flames by suggesting that these incidents be used as a political weapon. >> on fox news, karl rove warned democrats that discussing threats against them may inflame emotions, that discussing them publicly can only inspire copycats. he then discussed the many threats against him in great detail. if we are to presume that rove's theory of the case applies to him, too, then he obviously was using his own, unverifiable death threat stories to seek political advantage in the subject of the day. meanwhile, minority leader boehner in a fit of sanity called on dissatisfied voters to find other ways to make their voices heard, telling them to volunteer on political campaigns or register people to vote. but when congressman boehner was asked whether his invoking the term armageddon to describe health care reform might have helped to incite the threats, he disavowed any responsibility and claims that armageddon is just a

word. >> there have been a lot of words said in this political debate, and many political debates in this institution over the last 220 years. but the fact is is that this bill, in my view, is really going to harm our country. >> we are joined now by congressman harry mitchell, democrat of arizona, target of the sarah palin hit list and

recipient of that threatening voicemail message we played earlier. congressman, that message you received seems to encaps late some of the misinformation about the health care debate. for example the caller seems to think you want to come between her and her f-ing doctor. what would you like to explain to that caller that she doesn't seem to understand about the health care bill? >> first of all, it's important to keep in mind that rhetoric like this, it's been inflamed because of the issue of health care, really has no place in civil discourse about an issue that has created so much emotion and passion. you know, i taught high school government for 28 years. and many times students come to me and ask how i like where i am. and i've been apologizing to them lately by telling them it's not the way i taught it. this, what's going on, the lack

of civility is not the american way. and i think that we've got to get back to discussing these issues by issues, and certainly not by the rhetoric that we've been hearing. >> congressman mitchell, how does it make you feel getting phone calls like that? have you gotten phone calms like that before in your career? >> i have had calls similar to this, but when we came to this congress, the capitol police told us when we get certain kinds of calls that may be threatening or irresponsible we should call the capitol police, we've done that and they have it all under control. >> it took the republicans a while, 24 hours, to actually denounce violence in all forms against any lawmakers. is that a little too slow, when you're sitting there getting these kinds of calls, waiting for your colleagues across the aisle to speak up about this? >> well, what's important is we calm down. and that we take a look at these issues as issues.

and again, this thing has really created a great deal of emotion and rhetoric that is not part of the way we try to solve problems in our democracy. >> now, there was some protesting in the gallery in the house over the weekend, there were republican members of the house on the house floor cheering the protesters who were violating the rules that are maintained in the gallery about the audience behavior. does that provide for you any sense of linkage between what -- the republican rhetoric, the republican behavior, officials of the party, and this kind of reaction that you're getting on your phone lines? >> you know, both sides need to take a step back. both sides. because it's not serving either side any good. we're certainly not doing it in a way that makes the united states a different type of government from the rest of the world. we've got to get back to civility. again, i have been part of competitive districts in competitive races all my life. and i think when we get back to

campaigning again, the fact that i go back every weekend, the fact that i was born and raised in this district, the fact i taught school there, i think we'll find we're going to do okay in this race. >> congressman harry mitchell, democrat of arizona, thanks for your time tonight. i know you have to rush back to the house floor to vote on what turns out to be the real final vote. thank you for your time tonight. >> thank you, lawrence. >> for more, let's turn to associate professor of politics and african-american studies at princeton university, and msnbc contributor. professor, after tea party protesters shouted racist slurs at african-american members of congress over the weekend, andrew brightbart claimed that congressional black caucus members were, his words, searching for racism. by walking through the tea party crowd. what is missing in andrew brightbart's education that would allow him to see that event that way? >> that's quite a way to phrase that question. let me just say that if you are operating in a social movement that has serious policy goals,

then one of the things that you do as a social movement is to train the members of that movement not to behave in ways that will distract from your goals. so think about martin luther king and the movement for nonviolent direct action in the u.s. south against segregation. dr. king understood that people's natural reaction was to defend themselves when attacked. so they carefully trained the people who went out in these massive demonstrations, that no matter what happened, no matter what kind of violence they experienced, they were to behave in a nonviolent, but directly resisting way. now, the fact that these tea party members are allowing elements of their community to be shouting racist and homophobic things to duly elected leaders walking on their

way to work is an indication that they are not behaving like a responsible social movement. they're behaving more like a flash mob where everybody gets together and says what they want to say. they certainly have the right to do that in a democracy but it does mean we don't have to take them very seriously as a social movement if they can't bother to train themselves and participants to be disciplined and focused on the policy issues that they care about. >> looking back on martin luther king's movement, he was at a certain point in the -- as the movement matured, criticized by others who wanted to be much more confrontational and in some cases were willing to be violent in their protests. but martin luther king stayed the course that he had set out on of pure pacifist resistance to this authority that was oppressing his people. what are the lessons that we have from the past about how this movement, if it is to be taken seriously, the so-called tea party movement, let's just

call it an anti-tax movement, how should they be -- what lessons should they be looking at in history in order to find an effective way to move forward? >> you've put me in a strange position to making me a consult and the to the tea party movement at this point. >> all right, i have another question if you want to skip that one and let them figure it out themselves. >> let me just say, as citizens in a democracy we should never be afraid of the expression of ideas. i think this is the really critical distinction that we need to make about these threatening phone calls, these acts of potential violence or of actual vandalism. the point is never that we want to constrain ideas. it is much more dangerous in a democracy to say that people don't have a right to speak their mind, even if their mind is against the policies of the government. instead, what we have to recognize is that our founders also believe that we have a responsibility as citizens in a democracy to engage each other

in ways that actually preserves our union. so that we can be always in dissent and disagreement but also concerned about preserving the value that is our country itself. >> if you were to consult with, let's say, the leadership of the house of representatives, both democrats and republicans and try to suggest to them ways that they could put this stuff behind them and get these kinds of crowds under control, assuming republicans and democrats were willing to have this discussion in goodwill, what would you advise them to do? >> well, i mean, certainly a bipartisan press conference is the first and sort of most basic level thing that needs to happen here. listen, as a country, the united states, one of the things that

we have done is hold responsible all of world islam for a very small portion of sort of fanatic islam in the world that is part of world terrorist movements. and yet we've said as a country, listen, we expect all people of the muslim faith to be responsible for making sure that they are expressing their religious ideas in a way that is certain not to create terrorist actions against other nations. i think we need to hold ourselves accountable in precisely the same way. this is probably just a small sliver of the individuals who are angry with the health care reform passage on more substantive levels, but those who have substantive disagreements have a responsibility when they are part of a movement where these sorts of potentially exceptionally dangerous, violent, even, you know, possibly sort of terrorist kinds of actions, we have a

responsibility to pull that and tamp that down. and that responsibility is bipartisan, and the leaders need to begin by standing up in front of the cameras together and saying we may disagree, but we are part of one nation. >> and before we go, do you see any linkage between what you've heard from republican rhetoric, and let's for the moment leave out limbaugh and the commentators but actually elected officials in washington, their rhetoric and some of the activities that we've seen over the weekend and since the vote in the house? >> you know, we have sort of a tradition in the house in particular, not so much in the senate, of, you know, some kind of unruly and sometimes, you know, kind of crazy behavior on the floor. and that's part of the colorfulness of our democratic institutions. but in this particular environment, it is simply irresponsible to use language that sounds secessionist. and that is what a lot of this language has sounded. this notion we don't have to follow the rules, states should go rogue in the way sarah palin did, they should sue the federal

government. this is language that brings us back to a time that is far more sort of of concern about the capacity to preserve our union. yes, i do hear in the voice of that caller who was saying, i love my insurance company, you're coming between me and my doctor, that is an active case of misinformation. and what i heard there was fear. and that fear has been planted and it has been stoked and the republican leadership needs to take responsibility for it. >> melissa harris-lacewell, thanks for conducting another class for us here tonight. >> thanks, lawrence. coming up, president obama goes to iowa and becomes cheerleader in chief for the health reform law. and tells republicans if they want to run on the idea of repealing reform, go right ahead. and later, david frum said the health care debacle will be the republican's waterloo, not the president's. now david frum is out of a job at his conservative think tank. coming up, as the final the integrity of its design... or how it responds... in extreme situations? the deeper you look, the more you see the real differences. and the more you understand what it means to own a mercedes-benz. the c-class.

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coming up, as the final votes are cast tonight for the reconciliation fix, president obama tells the gop to bring it on. if you want to repeal reform and take the side of the insurance industry, he's ready to have that fight. that and the latest news from

capitol hill next on "countdown." on the plains. there's a hospital where technology has a healing touch. there's a factory giving old industries new life. and there's a train that got a whole city moving again. somewhere in america, the toughest questions are answered every day. because somewhere in america, more than sixty thousand people spend every day answering them. siemens. answers.

the end of freedom if health care passed, then the end of democrats, and then the end of democracy if democrats used a reconciliation bill to fix the senate bill. well, today the reconciliation fix passed the senate with a simple majority vote. democrats got 56 yeas, blanche lincoln, mark prior and ben nelson of nebraska who had to

spoil the original senate bill with a special deal for his state which was repealed by today's fix. democrat michael bennett and others on record supporting are the public option did not seek to put it in the reconciliation bill, even though republicans did succeed in sending it back to the house one last time for a pro forma voed by getting the parliamentarian to strip out language related to student loans. here then in the final class of "countdown's" year long tutorial on reconciliation is an example of the legislative changes republicans succeeded in making to health care reform. >> d, by striking subparagraph "e," and e, by redesignating subparagraph "f" as subparagraph "e." >> don't try passing reconciliation bills at home, kids. not surprisingly on his road trip to explain the new law, president obama couldn't resist

revisiting republicans' apocalyptic predictions. >> if you turn on the news, you'll see the same folks are still shouting about, there's going to be an end of the world because this bill passed. i'm not exaggerating. leaders of the republican party, they call the passage of this bill armageddon. armageddon. end of freedom as we know it. and so after i signed the bill, i looked around to see if there were any asteroids falling or -- some cracks opening up in the earth. turned out it was a nice day. birds were chirping, folks were

strolling down the mall. people still have their doctors. from this day forward, all of the cynics, all of the naysayers, they're going to have to confront the reality of what this reform is and what it isn't. they'll have to finally acknowledge this isn't a government takeover of our health care system. >> joining us now is msnbc political analyst howard fineman also senior washington correspondent and political columnist for "newsweek" magazine.

howard the bill has gone back to the house because of that change kent conrad mentioned, along with one other. >> yes. >> having the bill go back to the house from the senate last weekend seemed like every house democrat's worst nightmare, but now no one seems to care. they're going to be voting possibly as we speak. >> right. >> what happened? >> yeah, they're going to vote i think within a few minutes. i don't think they've started yet, but it could be any minute. a few things happened. first of all, these are very small changes. technical changes in actually the education part of the bill, not the health care part of the fix-it bill. the other thing that's happened, lawrence, is that the fight's over. i mean, 95% of the change is in the main bill that was already vogted on and signed into law and signed by the president. people are exhausted, they're tired. it's been a year, year and a half. and i also think the republicans are confused and divided. i think all the overheated rhetoric and all the tea party stuff, the fight's gone out of them for now. they'll be back, but for now the

fight's gone out. >> and it seems that the bill signing strategy turned out to be brilliant. there was some thought earlier on last week that when they passed that senate bill in the house, that's the ugly bill. that's the bill with the nebraska deal in it and the things they don't want to talk about. maybe the president will sign that in the middle of the night with no cameras. it turns out they made that bill the big signing ceremony which does seem to have made everything that's happened afterwards just to be an

john boehner calls congressional staffers punks. but members of congress know better. they know they are completely dependent on their staffers.

that literally nothing, absolutely nothing would ever get done in congress without the staff. congressmen don't write the bills, the staff does. senators don't pass the bills without their staffs telling them how. today, just before the final vote on the reconciliation bill, the senate said thank you. >> these staffs have worked, on both sides, minority and majority, weekend after weekend after weekend, night after night after night, especially my staff director mary nailer along with bill dofter, john rider, joel friedman, my counsel, joe vieta. >> randy deval, kate leen, they left their families at home. she left her baby at home. >> and i want to sing about one person. that one person is sitting next to me. her name is liz fowler. in many ways she represents all the people who have worked so hard to make this bill such a great accomplishment. >> yes, plenty of staffers eventually walk across the

street and cash in their experience for lobbying money. but sitting on the senate floor today were people who have made a career of service to this country and have steadfastly refused to walk across that street, even though millions of dollars are waiting for them on the other side. you know anyone who's turned down millions of dollars? i do. i know many. and it may surprise you to learn they all work for you. after thanking the staff, there was just one more point of order before the vote. as chris dodd noted today, it has been exactly 200 days since the death of health care reform's greatest advocate, senator ted kennedy.

this afternoon, the senate honored ted kennedy's memory and his dedication to health care reform in particular by observing a moment of silence, which "countdown" now brings you in its entirety. >> i think it would be very appropriate right now to have a minute of silence for our departed friend, one of the great senators in the history of this country, ted kennedy. and i would ask the chair to direct that minute of silence. >> the chair will without objection direct the moment of silence. majority leader is recognized.

>> and then history marched on. ahead on "countdown," fill out and mail back the census today. because your census answers are more than just answers. they're the first step toward a happier, healthier community. we can't move forward until you mail it back.

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ahead on "countdown," republicans went after an 11-year-old boy who dared to support health care reform. he stood his ground, and tonight we'll meet him. marcelas owens. plus, the republican former speech writer for george w. bush who dared to call the republican party on its botched handling of health care reform. guess what happened to him today? and when rachel joins you at the top of the hour, the pentagon says it is relaxing don't ask, don't tell, but don't tell that to dan choi. he's been through the process and he'll give rachel his reaction to the new policy coming up on the "rachel maddow show." first i find the flight i want. then a great hotel my kids will love. yeah. but wait... here's the really cool part. when i book them at the same time... voila! i can save up to 450 bucks. and we all know that can come in pretty handy.

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health care reform the law of the land. history was written, and 11-year-old marcelas owens was part of it. he's been sharing his mother's story since he was 7. unemployed and uninsured, tiffany owens lost her battle with pulmonary hypertension at the age of 27. her son fought on speaking about health care reformat meetings, at rallies, beginning the week after his mother died. his work did not go unnoticed. president obama, paying tribute to the brave fifth grader from seattle on tuesday. >> i'm signing it for 11-year-old marcelas owens. marcelas lost his mom to an illness. so in her memory, he has told her story across america so that no other children have to go through what his family's experienced. >> joining me now as promised, it is my great pleasure to present health care activist

marcelas owens. marcelas, good evening. thank you for joining us tonight. >> it's good to be on the show. >> now, i know you got into this i've read and i've heard you talk about getting into this because of what happened to your mother. but you got into it before president obama did. you got into it a few years ago, and how did you then come to the attention eventually to the president? >> i was -- wait. i was doing activist work, and -- >> was there a meeting where you introduced yourself to a senator and told her what you'd been doing? >> yes. >> and that's -- and she passed the word along to washington that there's a pretty extraordinary speaker out here that people should be hearing from. what was it like standing there beside the president? and i love that you had matching ties on.

can you tell me how your ties ended up matching that day? >> well, i forgot my shirt and my tie, so one of barack obama's workers i think went out and bought a shirt and tie, and i think somebody told him what color tie barack was wearing, and then we ended up matching. >> you two looked good together in those ties. you had a meeting with the president in the oval office later that day. what happened in that meeting? >> he said that he couldn't have done it without everybody who got involved and that i looked good in the blue tie. >> you know, marcelas, the first time i was in the oval office it was with president clinton, and i was older than you were. but i can't remember what anyone said for the first ten minutes,

because i was so in awe of being in the oval office in the white house. what did it feel like for you to be in there with the president? >> it was exciting to be in there with the president, because barack obama is one of my african-american heroes. >> now, have you had any ideas in your travels, in talking about health care as you've done over the years and then this year getting involved in actually seeing up close how a bill becomes a law, something you're going to be studying in high school, you already know about, did -- have you gotten any ideas about what you might want to do when you grow up? >> i want to be the president of the united states. >> that looks like a pretty good job, doesn't it? >> yes. >> and, marcelas, how do you go on from that?

how do you go back to seattle and live a normal life with your friends and with the kids your age when you're the only kid in town who's been standing there beside the president in his workday when the president is at work, making laws? what's it like to be around other 11-year-old kids who don't have experiences like that? >> i think it's pretty easy because, even though they don't know, you can still talk to them about it and help them learn more about it. and everybody's interested in what i've been doing. >> marcelas, you know it takes hard work to get through school, and it takes even harder work to get to be president of the united states. but if there's an 11-year-old in this country who i have to bet on on getting all the way back to the white house and having that job, you're the guy i'm going to bet on. marcelas, thank you. >> thank you. >> thank you very, very much for

joining us. i really appreciate you doing this, and i know you have homework to do, so get back to it right now. >> okay. >> okay. still ahead on "countdown," the republican who showed republicans where they went wrong on health care reform. now one of his patrons is showing him the door. what happened to the former bush speech writer who dared to say that republicans are now working for glenn beck and rush nology has a healing touch. there's a factory giving old industries new life. and there's a train that got a whole city moving again. somewhere in america, the toughest questions are answered every day. because somewhere in america, more than sixty thousand people spend every day answering them. siemens. answers.

ahead on "countdown," with the house about to vote final passage of health care reform, david frum wrote the speeches president george w. bush used to prepare a nation for a war in iraq, but now david frum has gone and told the truth about his party and health care. republicans could have scored victories on this very middle of the road reform, but they blew it because rush limbaugh and fox news are calling the shots. so guess what happened to david frum today? ely at the mercedes-benz glk, when you study its engineering, its safety systems, and when you consider who will be riding with you, perhaps the question is not so much whether you can afford to drive a vehicle that is built this way but whether you can afford not to. the glk. the engineering of mercedes-benz. see your authorized mercedes-benz dealer for exceptional offers through mercedes-benz financial. ♪

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the house of representatives now voting on what turns out to be the real final passage of the reconciliation bill in the house, about five minutes remaining in the vote. we will in the meantime discuss

what happens when a prominent republican tries to tell the truth about his own party's failings. former bush speech writer david frum has been sharply criticizing the republican party lately. he said that passage turned out to be the gop's waterloo. he said we're discovering we work for fox news. he said that rush limbaugh wants the republican party to fail and today he announced today frum posted his final letter to aei, president arthur brooks, following frum's lunch meeting with mr. brooks. effective immediately my position as a resident fellow at the american enterprise int tut is terminated. i do regret this abrupt and unexpected conclusion of our relationship. what might be different after frum's seven-year relationship at aei? frum wrote an opinion piece for cnn in which he concluded that the waterloo for president obama predicted by jim demint had

indeed arrived for the republican party, and frum repeated that charge on this network. >> in this debate republicans have listened to the most radical voices in the party. no compromise, hand the president his waterloo. if this turns out to be our waterloo today, then there has to be an accountability moment for that. this will be a much worse outcome than we could have got than if we had negotiated early. that was shouted down, we went the radical way looking for waterloo and we arrived at waterloo. >> and listen to what he said. >> republicans originally thought that fox worked for us, and now we're discovering we work for fox. and that the balance here has been completely reversed and the thing that is -- that sustains a strong fox network is the thing that undermines a strong republican party.

>> let's bring in the washington, d.c., columnist for politicsdaily.com. the vote is going on beside us, two minutes, 49 seconds left. as we approach final passage on the health care reconciliation package. can you believe we've heard someone with david frum's stature saying republicans originally thought that fox worked for us? >> well, you know, i have a news flash for david, who i like, and that is darth vader is luke skywalker's father. i mean, for a long time, you know, you, i, others have been saying which tail is wagging the dog here? it was -- fox is wagging the republican party, and time and time again, you know, whether it's glenn beck or anybody else or -- and giving the tea party

folks basically the only platform on the right, they've boxed the republican leadership into a corner. not even the leaders, everybody in the republican party in congress. if you don't cater to this audience, you get pummeled. and as david frum, very astutely noted, that has left no room for maneuvering for the republican legislators. and as you know, having worked on the hill, if you're going to be a legislator, you need some room. you can't just be at one corner of a big banquet room and stand there and get anything done. and fox and rush limbaugh and all these people who have their own agendas, their agenda is not what's best for the country, it's getting eyeballs and listeners and making money, but they really have tied the hands of the republican party, and the republican party leaders have allowed their hands to be tied. >> david, you know washington, you know the support system that exists for people there on each side of the aisle. what happens to david frum in

washington? we see him losing one position today. where does he have to turn to for a future? >> well, he's written books in the past, i'm sure he'll write books again. he has plenty of friends around town. but bruce bartlett who worked for another conservative think tank a few years ago was fired in 2005 for writing a book that was, you know, partly critical of george w. bush and his presidency. and he put up a blog today saying, you know what? there isn't a lot of room in this town these days for people like david and me. >> now, in pure political terms, should democrats look at this today and think, great. they are, the republicans are just killing the people who might be able to guide them toward smarter strategies. >> well, i'm not sure that david was in that type of leadership position -- >> well, by his thinking. >> i take your point. what the republican party needs, what any strong minority -- any

minority party that wants to become strong needs is the ability to have a good internal debate. doesn't mean being wishy washy. you need to be able to at least have a debate and have that maneuvering room so that there's some flexibility. and that just seems to be totally gone when you have,