of chivalry by tom coburn to nancy pelosi. but let me finish tonight by playing you that voice mail. that racist voice mail was left for u.s. congressman, john lewis. and michele bachmann has been denying exists. we start with a death threat against patty murray. pete williams is nbc news justice correspondent. this is a crime. how serious is it, pete? >> it's very serious. a felony. threatening a member of congress in retaliation for what they do or prevent them. what federal authorities say is this man is charles allen wilson did is repeatedly call and leave messages on the voice mail of patty murray. his staff notified the fbi, but around the time of the health care bill, the threats got more

serious. from the message ins a federal indictment, he says if i had the chance, i would do it. talking about killing senator murray. i want to kill you, he says, not only do i say kill the bill, i say kill the senator. he also says, i would actually pay to help that person. he says he's not republican or democrat, he's just furious at her for voting for the health care bill. now, he blocked his phone number so if you you looked on caller i.d., you wouldn't see a phone number. >> okay, thank you. right now, we have to go to west virginia and a news conference on the deadly mine disaster.

>> i'm going to ask everybody to continue to be respectful. to continue to be respectful. >> congresswoman, who gave you the right or authority to determine whether or not i have to purchase health care? >> wow, another direct question.

do i have to buy health care? last week, a democratic congressman was rebuffed by a constituent when he tried to shake her hand. she said -- and hours after health care reform passed, john lewis received this voice mail. it gets much worse and more racist. we'll have the rest of the tape in the rest of the program. i'm joined by david cornyn and also steve cornake. we're looking at an array of inciden incidents, but also, wait until you hear the really racist language directed at john lewis. we have the incident in new

hampshire, the one in ft. lauderdale, what looks to be a middle class crowd. is this anger indemic or just the right wing finding another opportunity to complain about a liberal president? >> there is a fringe that is very angry. we don't know how big until election day in november. in the meantime, what i think is very noticeable about this is if you read the criminal complaint about the man who threatened patty murray, he repeats republican talking points. it's socialism, a baby killer and will have end of life classes. we repeats that. on the phone calls when he's threatening to kill her or have someone else kill her. what we see from the republican leadership, what they're saying, they can make their charactargun policy grounds, it's really fuelling the fires out there. when you have republicans having protest rallies on the hill that

they sponsor when tea party and others come and call the democrats nazis and republican leaders like john boehner are wave i waving to the crowd, they're encouraging people to think of democrats as either nazis, socialists and what do you do with people like that? sometimes, you take up arms against them. so this is being encouraged at least implicitly. >> it gets worse in terms of state officials. let me go to steve. the same point. the degrees of this, there are people like the attorney general of florida. he talks about this as an invaix ofsoeverty. the governor of texas using words like succession. we're going to meet them at the border, the state line. almost like a posse kind of

thing. there's a lot of reference. i've had this dispute with rush limbaugh, but using the word regime again and again. it does play to the black helicopter notion that somebody's coming to take over your country and you. >> there isn't a whole lot that's new about this. we live in an era where we have to technology to document all the episodes and instances like this and publicize it and get it out there, but imagine if we had the technology we do back during reconstruction. imagine if we had it during the debate over social security. every major sort of progressive action, every piece of progressive legislation, really in american history has been met with this kind of fierce, emotional backlash from the right. during reconstruction, that's where you had the birth of the

ku klux klan. what's different now is david alluded to it, you've got guys like glenn beck out there who have been the platform on television, through the internet, on the radio, where they can reach millions of people and can rile them up. when you look at what this law is going to be, this is a very modest, incremental sort of pro private sector piece of legislation. people on the left have a lot more reason to be mad with this legislation than people on the right, but if you look at the emotional reactions to this, you'd never get that sense. >> why would the people, just to complete your point, why would the people on the left be angry? it is progressive. >> one of the biggest winners in this is the private insurance companies. the dream on the left for decades has been single payer national health insurance where we get the private insurers out of the way. they're stronger than ever now. >> do you get angry when your

dreams don't come true? seems like the right is angry with what they see as a near and present danger. they fear the individual mandate. what i hear coming through this is not so much an anger about the fiscal impact of this bill and the numbers may be off, but what you hear is that sort of cowboy sense that this is going to threaten my freedom. i find that interesting and that may be the long-term anger quotient here. >> your point earlier was dead on. i think people believe they've lost their country and you can come up with different reasons why people feel that way with the election of barack obama. the health care bill has become the proof. they're taking away our freedom and turning us into a socialist united states.

today, the heritage foundation said that america is no longer a free nation. it's a mostly free nation. they rank countries every year and dropped america, so now, we're living in a not so free united states according to the heritage foundation, so people are picking up on this. there was a lot of anticipation about what the health care bill would do. they're already acting as if it's the worst case scenario. first, we had obama, the foreigner, the guy wasn't born here, coming in and taking over the government. and now, he's imposing soci socialism. there is a -- this has become the battle front for people who are worried about the very nature of this country. >> steve? >> one thing i think we've got to keep in mind, this didn't

start with health care. remember the 2008 campaign, the fall of 2008, where you had people showing up at obama rallies, republican crowds calling him a socialist, saying this was a beginning of communism in the united states. that was before he proposed health care. one thing we try to understand the motivation on the right, i think what ties together health care now, medicare in the 1960s, all these great progressive advances in sort of the reaction from the right, i think what ties them together is there's this fundamental sort of inherent fear of redistribution. when the government gets involved, they're going to take from me. one of the amazing iron anies out there is you have people out there who are on medicare.

>> the problem is we don't think of what the country would be like if we didn't have medicare for our parents. they need health care, a lot of it, and have no source of income. they're not working every morning. what would it be like in this country, calcutta, people all over the place lying in the streets. if we didn't have unemployment compensation. if we didn't have a progressive income tax. there's a lot of things we don't think about and the right wing just pounds and pounds away at this idealistic notion of a cowboy country, everybody's self-reliant. >> except when it comes to the big banks and lots of other things where republicans don't get so upset. >> i think progressives for all their power have not been a positive case for the advantages of some kind of social state. >> obama hasn't either.

a better business issue. >> thank you so much. coming up, what's going on with afghanistan's president karzai? he's threatening to join the taliban if we don't stop meddling in his country. didn't we put him in power and how big a problem has he become for president obama? they don't seem to be clicking after that midnight immediameet. national car rental? that's my choice.

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start while they will ask voters for a mandate. "hardball" returns after this.

welcome back. hamid karzai has escalated a war of words with the u.s. he accused us of perpetrating voter fraud in the last elections elections and on saturday, he told mens of the afghan parliament quote -- how can we work with a leader who threatens to join the forces we're trying to defeat? karzai recently took direct aim at gal braet and accused him of trying to orchestrate fraud over there. he was dismissed last year over clashing with his superiors.

first of all, what is going on with karzai? is he a drug user? >> he is clearly not sbeentirel normal and that was an observation made by a physician and his principal opponent. this is fairly well-known among diplomats in kabul. these kinds of tirades he's produced are not rational. it can't be rational for him to say he's going to join the enemy of the united states. or to accuse the u.n. of fraud that he himself committed. now, there are reports in the palace that he uses drugs. hashish. i don't know the accuracy of

that, but i have some confidence in the sources. >> let me ask you about our situation over there. we americans, we have fighting forces in the field over there who are in harm's way as we speak on post defending our interests over there. as you understand them, is it in our interest to continue to support the karzai government? >> that's not really the issue. what he said is offensive, but we're not in afghanistan to defend hamid karzai. but the larger problem is that in order for our strategy to work, which is a counterinsurgency strategy, we need to have a credible afghan partner and hamid karzai, who has been in office for eight years, eight years of corrupt and inefficient government, now in office by fraud, not illegitimate in the eyes of many

around the world, is also behaving very strangely. clearly, it's not a credible partner and without that, the strategy is not going to work. the reason is simple. u.s. troops can come into an area, clear out the taliban, but by and large, we don't kill them. they go back to their home villages or another place. unless we're going to stay there for ever, we need to have afghan security forces and an afghan government that can provide honest administration, win the support of the population and that clearly is not a government led by karzai. >> we don't want the taliban to take over. we need someone else to run the country. karzai actually accused you of perpetrating voter fraud.

what do you make of that kind of charge? >> it is bizarre beyond measure. in another context you might say that this was the big lie. i know something -- the nazis and soviets tell such a big lie people might believe it. but i don't think that's it. the person who's hurt by that kind of lie is karzai. and so again, i have to say that it's irrational. as to the substance, i think it's fairly well-known that ban ki-moon fired me because i felt that the u.n. should take an active role first in preventing the fraud, then doing something about it after it took place.

it was the view that we should support the karzai commission whatever it did, so it's a very bizarre -- that really raises questions about karzai's mental stability. >> thank you so much for joining us. david is right here with me. i have a huge faith in you, david, to try to explain this whole mess over there. we have a government we're defending because we have to have somebody besides the taliban. we don't want enemies coming at us here. >> we don't want another 9/11. let me try to untangle a few of the threats here. karzai has been pushing back in a very erratic way. just over a week ago, president obama went to see him and had what he thought was a good meeting. >> they did like it. >> they thought this problem was back in the box then a few days

later, he's making these bizarre statements. he's not going to join the taliban. that's absurd. what i see happening here in part is a reaction to the fact we've announced we're leaving afghanistan in july of next year. karzai says the one thing i can't appear to be is an american stoonlg. i've got to find a political base. i think a lot of it is that. we need to admit that it plays well, whether it's iraq, afghanistan, pakistan. >> would he tell us to leave? >> he could tell us to leave. >> i've had it with you guys. >> he could. there are many other people in his government who we work with on a daily basis with whom we have very good relationships. if you're in kabul, you see this overwhelming american presence. this is such a poor country. we have landed there with our

billions of dollars of hardware and troops. there is a feeling of, so where's my sovereignty. where am i in this. for that reason, these are bizarre remarks, but the underlying thing he's expressing, i want some independence. it's my country. back off a little bit. i think the general line we should take seriously. >> do you think we're going to get out of afghanistan within a year and a half? >> i think we're going begin the process of withdrawal from afghanistan in july of next year as the president has said. i think the president is now committed to trying to do his best with this. you can see what fragile material we're working with in these comments from karzai. >> it reminds me of south vietnam in '63 where we had a guy who was a bit miystical, wh seemed a bit out of it and we ened up knocking him off. >> we're trying to fight a real movement of the people, that's

part of the problem. >> thank you, david. up next, what caused tom coburn to do the unthinkable? he's out there defending nancy pelosi. very chivalrous, very classy. also took a nice little shot at fox news in the doing. interesting to watch this. you're watching "hardball," only on msnbc. john is a ford and lincoln mercury service technician. very smart. we were just discussing the circumstances by which a person can find himself in four separate places at one time. i didn't really say that. but people come in here for tires, brakes, batteries and oil changes. so it's possible? yes. oh that's brilliant. buy with confidence. thanks to our low price tire guarantee. so, with everything you need in one convenient place why would you go to four separate places? now that's a good question. well, there you go.

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time for the side show. first, a nice bit of class for those who think the political debate has gotten sordid. here's audio from a town meeting conducted by tom coburn. you'll here this conservative senator defending nancy pelosi. and also doing a little nudge at fox news.

let's watch. well that was a fresh bit of air. i'm sure he'll get some cat calls for his chiflry, but he'll feel better about what he said about the speaker than those who said about the cat calls being who they are. last night, jon stewart did his job while delivering a late hit on a certain former u.s. president. >> is a rare politician willing to accept responsibility for fraud. >> this fraud has been done by

the foreigners. >> what the -- you're blaming us for conspireing to get you, hamid karzai, re-elected as president? i believe the term you were looking for was thank you. hamid, say it ain't so. >> well, it seems that president karzai is backtracking on his words. what he told hillary clinton by phone was he didn't mean it like that. >> you know, i don't think there's any woman in the world who has had more late night, baby, you know i didn't mean it like that, phone calls, than hillary clinton. come on, baby. you know i love u.s. >> he's unbelievable. save this for secretary clinton and her husband, they've won their elections fair and square. up next, in light of yesterday's mining accident, is enough being done to protect miners in this country? a big question today. we're going to ask a top

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i'm yule julia boorstin. the dow slipping 3.5 points, the s&p 500 adding two and the nasdaq climbing more than seven points. minutes released today showing signs of division over when to raise interest rates. members appeared to be leaning towards waiting a long time. in stocks, banks were among a handful of winners for the financial sector, but homebuilders skidded after a ratings downgrade for two big

names. credit swiss predicts a develop in demand. netflix surging as one of the most popular apps ipad. that's it from cnbc, first in business worldwide. now back to "hardball." spoke with governor manchin of west virginia last night and told him that the federal government stands ready to offer whatever assistance is needed in this rescue effort, so i would ask here this morning pray for the safe return of the men and women who have put their lives on the line to save them and the souls that have been lost in this tragic accident, may they

rest in peace and may the families find comfort in the hard days ahead. >> that was president obama this morning at a prayer breakfast. at least 25 miners are dead and rescue efforts continue tonight to search for four workers still trapped. daniel cane is secretary treasurer of united mine workers of america. i have the greatest respect for the men and women who go down in our mines. the guts it takes to go down there every day. what do you hear, what's your hopes, what do you think is going on with the four guys down there right now? >> we try to maintain hope in light though of the horrific nature of the explosion, it looks very bad. we will hold out hope to the end, but in the meantime, we have to make sure that we, number one, don't endanger the lives of the rescuers and we do

everything possible to find out what happened to everyone who was in the mine on that day. >> what do you make of the rescue effort so far? the putting of that drill down there to get the methane gas down there? is that the smart first step? >> i imagine it is. you do have to degas the mine. when there's a mine explosion, it disrupts the mine in a terrible way and gas begins to build up. you have to take that into account when beginning a rescue operation. >> joe manchin, here he is, then i want to get back to you, sir. you know what you're talking about. >> i can't set here and make any excuse or nor do i intend to. i can only tell you when the investigation's completed and these people do their job and they give us the findings and there's anything at all that could have been preventible that

would give us the indication that something's out of tkilter and if legislation is needed, we'll pass it immediately. >> accidents happen in every part of life. airplanes crash, cars crash, people do all kinds of things that just don't work. is mine safety perfectible, sir? >> i don't know if anything in life is perfectible. certainly, we can do a lot better than that. we have to realize that having strong legislation is important, but the main thing we have to do is empower those miners. the men and women who work in the mines every day have to feel assured that they can do those things that make sure job safe. that they can perform their job in a safe manner without any kind of intimidation. there is so much money that can be saved by cutting costs and we have to do everything possible

to prevent mining companies from doing that. mining companies are very powerful in this country and there's a lot of incentives to try and get the coal out no matter what. >> you think that massey, this company, i've heard their name before in this regard. is this a bad company? they have a bad record, would you say? >> look at their record. >> i see 1300 violations. it's 2005. they're contesting about a third, which tells me they don't have a great record. >> well, it's not a company that we represent, so we don't deal with them directly a lot, however, in the mining industry, when you have one company that tries to increase productivity by pushing a little harder and trying to intimidate people to cut corners, it affects all of us. the thing that needs to be pointed out is that in the coal fields, these jobs are the good jobs in the area.

if they don't exist, it's a severe economic hardship to the people in that area and that absolutely have to be able to perform their job in a safe way. free of intimidation. they have to be empowered so they can do what they know best. >> what's a high-skilled mine worker make? what's he get in gross income? i'm curious. >> it's very easy to make $70,000 a year at some of these operations. >> that's a 40-hour week? >> nobody works a 40-hour week anymore. >> there's a lot of overtime involved. >> i see. to get the 70. >> yes. there's overtime involved, but that's very common for people to make a very good living and in those areas, that's the best job around. >> nobody likes regulation in this country except when it involves them. if you worked in a mine, you'd

want to mine to be safe and let's pray for those guys still down there. thanks for coming on, sir. good luck. i like the laboring movement all together. up next, from nuclear weapons to health care reform, president obama's trying to do big things and we're going to see how it's going. we've got an expert, editor of "time" magazine. he's going to grade our president and how he's doing. this is "hardball" on msnbc.

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request a prospectus or summary prospectus with investment objectives, risks, fees, expenses, and other information to read and consider carefully before investing. so, today, i state clearly and with conviction, america's commitment to seek the peace and security of a world without nuclear weapons. >> welcome back to "hardball." a year after president obama called for a world without nuclear weapons, he put forth the framework for that goal

today. it's been clear to tackle the problems in his temper and power. richard collaborated with nelson mandela on his book. now, he has a new book, mandela's way, 15 lessons on life, love and courage. i've been reading the book. it is fabulous. i feel better already as a human being and i am dead serious. this book is great stuff. i want to ask you about something you've aroused here. here's some language from your book that will arouse some anxiety on the right, some interest on the left and we'll see in the middle. here you are comparing nelson mandela to president obama. you write --

the right wing hates that because they hate it. your thoughts. explain. >> well, chris, the right wing has problems with nelson mandela. he was a terrorist in america until he was released from prison. he fought against an ally in the united states even though it had an apartheid government that discriminated against people. it has aroused a little bit of controversy. i'm not comparing obama's achievement with mandela's. i'm comparing that two temperments. the man who went into prison was

48 years old and his temperment then, he was passionate, a revolutionary. prison tempered him, it was his great teacher. it changed him into the man who is is self-controlled. the thing about obama is that he seems to have that temperment without having had to spend 27 years in prison. >> how do you explain it? >> deny -- genetics. he had to forge his own identity in a racial caldron in america. he realized he had to be somebody with a calm temper to achieve what he wanted and he's a very ambitious man like nelso alliance as you know. the alliance that won him the election between college-educated white people,

if you will, liberals, progressives, center left people who just -- maybe good-hearted people wanted to see him win and minorities. that was a hell of the coalition in the democratic party. it beat hillary clinton ultimately in the numbers and won the general election. he has not been successful in working hearts and minds of working class whites. we saw racism afoot there and anger more generally. he has not been able to build that coalition. mandela has at least tried with rugby, we saw with that great film. we saw it in some of the stuff in your book about racial, not forgiveness entirely, but let's get along and move on attitude. which i think has been pretty powerful in south africa. barack obama hasn't been able to do that with the white working class, has he? >> well, no, but i mean look at the different situations. in south africa you had a country on the brink of a racial civil war. nelson mandela felt the country narrowly averted a war.

he stood for reconciliation between the whites and the blacks. he got out of prison after 27 years and said let's forget the past. i forgive you, we have to move on. what unites us is much for important than what dif sides us. barack obama didn't get working class whites in the election and not getting them now. and one of the things i find curious about the political thing we see ourself in now is so many of the characteristics we prized in barack obama the candidate people don't seem to necessarily like in barack obama the president. mediation, listening, being thoughtful. we seem to want him to act more and act more precipitously. those were not the valued we elected him for. >> actually that's one criticism i don't go along with, but i hear it out there. certainly people want him to be more passionate. i hear it from people close to him. why doesn't he show more passion? but is there any way a leader who's african-american in a country that's largely white can be a passionario? can he be, you know, a man of great passion and great rhetoric

that rouses people, brings them to their feet, gets them to march? is that doable in this country? >> well, i mean ksh. >> this is a pretty tricky question. >> it's a tricky question. nelson mandela always said when you speak to people you speak to their heads and hearts at the same time he's not nearly as good a speaker as barack obama and tends to be a little too intellectual than obama is. again, i mean, chris, you could argue that the president obama is leading people not through calls to passion but through calls to rationality, through calls to what's in their own benefit. i mean, i think voters and americans always vote and care about what's most in their own benefit rather than someone being there and yelling charge and move ahead. >> i have to give you a tribute in this book. the beginning of the book is useful to everybody in any line of work at any age. i don't care if you're 70 years old or 17. it's about courage. the strongest message i've gotten out of your book is the fact courage is not

fearlessness. it is facing down your fears and to some extent faking it. i love that stuff. i think it's what life is like. make phone calls certain days you don't want to make. decisions you have to make. people you have to deal with. every day you have to face them down. you can't -- you can't let the fear get over you. >> absolutely. the thing as you saw in the book, chris, when we were talking during the writing of "long walk to freedom" and i did many, many hours of interviews he would often say to me, i was terrified or i was afraid of this and i kept thinking to myself, i have nelson mandela, one of the greatest heroes of the 20th century telling me he was frightened. i would ask him about that. he would say, richard, it would be irrational not to have been frightened. he said, you have to put up a front. you have to pretend to be brave even when you're not brave. here's nelson mandela who stood for bravery and courage for millions of people, not to mention the thousands of men he served in prison with and every day he was doing exactly what you said. he was -- >> a lot of passion, richard.

more passion that barack obama, sir. thank you very much. richard, the editor of "time" nag dean, his book is "man kel la's way." this is a great book for graduation and a lot of other people should read this. when we return, i'm going to have thoughts about that disgusting level of visit reyol we've heard addressed to members of congress. wait until you hear this tape, this voicemail for congressman lewis. you won't believe it. maybe you will. it's a bit of america we don't like.

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let me finish tonight with a refutation to those like congresswoman michele bachmann who continue to deny racial epithets have been leveled at members of congress in the recent health care debate. here is a recorded message left for u.s. congressman john lewis of georgia. our network bleeped some of the words. easily follow the drift and the sense of venom. hear with your own words the hostility directed at one man, the president of the united states. the hatred is personal, it is hostile, it is racial. >> yes, bill, yes, calling from. [ inaudible ] i ain't going to get no health insurance. tell that son of a [ bleep ] that i ain't getting the [ bleep ] health insurance. that god [ bleep ], [ bleep ] don't tell me i got to get [ bleep ] health insurance. i ain't paying no [ bleep ] fine. put my [ bleep ] in jail if you

don't like it. [ bleep ] who voted for obama and all them white trash that voted for that communist socialist [ bleep ]. [ bleep ]. i ain't getting the [ bleep ] mandatory health insurance. [ bleep ]. a bunch of [ bleep ] white trash. communist [ bleep ]. fight no [ bleep ]. not going to be forced to do something i don't want to do. [ bleep ]. john lewis, [ bleep ], worthless communist. >> congressman lewis is not the only lawmaker to receive this abuse. we saw the man who spat at emanuel cleaver. eyewitness reports of similar behavior as congress voted on the health bill itself. congressman jim clyburn, leader of the house got a fax with a picture of a noose and calls his wife has gotten at home, scary calls. it would be good if people in the media, not just the left or center left, but also on the

right put out word this kind of stuff hurts the cause, whatever cause you believe in, it's not hurting the american cause. the great majority of people right, left and center don't think this stuff is american. right now it's time for "the ed show" with ed schultz. good evening, americans. welcome to "the ed show" from new york tonight. these stories are hitting "my hot buttons" tonight. i'm exposing cnn contributor and conservative hate merchant erick erickson. his threat about pulling a shotgun on a census worker is only one of the dangerous and despicable things he's said. president of media matters will join me in just a moment. the stock market is surging. and that's money in the bank for seniors and union pensions. why aren't the republicans just praising our bullish president? plus, it's a "psycho talk" event of the season. we'll have a complete preview of tomorrow's palin/bachmann rally

in minneapolis. it's coming up. you won't want to miss it. this is the story that has me fired up tonight. political violence. it is being stoked by the conservative media in this country the hard right wing blogger and cnn corrector erick ericson, he is exhibit "a." he raised eyebrows when he said he'd pull a shotgun on a sen ses worker if the people came to his door or land. we called him out on it. he said, we're the problem. we're just making something out of nothing. >> people linger on every word i say. linger on these words, please. you people are nuts. absolute nuts. and where do you get off misconstruing that i'm agitating for killing census workers when you people are out there advocating for the killing of the unborn on a regular basis? >> yeah. we just do that every day.