come right back out because it was just too dangerous. >> brian, you said three of the four. what did you mean by that? >> there are three believed to be in one area that is supposed to be near one of these rescue chambers where it's a place where they can ride out and wait for help. it's a place where they can sort of bunker down and have a little shelter from debris and also from this dangerous air. the other one is believed to be in a more remote area of the mine near where several of the others were already found. they're going to go to both areas, try to get the three, try to get the fourth. but at this point they can only speculate on where these unaccounted for minoers might b. they've searched so much of the mine they believe they have a fairly good idea brian mooar reporting at the scene of the accident, an explosion in west virginia. thanks, brian. there are new questions

today over mine safety and coal profits. following this accident, labor secretary hilda solis is promising to take action with a special team of investigators to look into what caused the explosion. in a statement she writes, miners should never have to sacrifice their lives for their livelihood. let's bring in journalist and cultural historian jeff biggers joining us on skype today, the author of "reckoning at eagle creek, the secret legacy of coal in the heartland." good to have you on with us. you know this industry as well as anyone. it is a way of life. it's how they make a living. there's not a whole lot of economic development in this part of west virginia except coal mining. have the people of this area just come to accept the risk? >> they've come to accept the risk but i think like any americans they want to be able to go to work every day knowing

that there are rules on the books that are going to be followed and enforced, that there's no reason to have unnecessary risks, especially if they're going to lose their lives. >> you wrote on huffington post all coal mining safety laws have been written in miners' blood. my grandfather, who barely survived an explosion in a coal mine in southern illinois, taught me this phrase. he also taught me about the 150-year-old battle in the coal fields over reckless production at the cost of responsible safety measures. now, it's been widely reported that there have been hundreds of violations and infractions taken against this particular company. is this an incident that could maybe change the way of life of coal miners? >> i think it can. i think it's really forcing us to come to grips with the realities of the dirty side of coal. you know, that we can no longer glibly say, coal is cheap and coal is clean. i mean, ed, 104,000 americans

have died in our coal mines through a century of more or less regulated manslaughter. so when you have a mine like this that had 500 violations between the 2008 and 2009, 50 of which were extreme, life-or-death violations, and that they go on and continue to mine coal openly and admittedly with these violations then i think we're beginning to really see that we're condoning a policy of manslaughter here. and i think coal miners deserve something better and i think after centuries of regulations we really need to move forward with a different type of approach. >> the ceo of massey energy company has been known and called a union buster by those who support labor in this country. he took home an income of $19.7 million in 2008. but this label as a union buster and a man who drives his employees, is that a fair depiction of this man in your

opinion? >> oh, it's very fair. i mean, he's infamous not only for the underground mining violations but the above ground of course with mountain top removal. and so many of those mines have, virtual lal of those mines from massey have come from union busting. they all now are completely nonunion mines. this is a big issue because none of these disasters happened in union mines. there you have much better regulation, no union would ever have stood and allowed 50 of these types of violations to stand. except now you have these nonunion mines where the workers can literally do nothing or they lose their jobs. >> mr. biggers, i appreciate your time on msnbc this afternoon. thanks so much. >> thanks for your time. >> keep it on msnbc for live updates of our rescue efforts in west virginia. coming up at 3:30 eastern we'll get another update from the governor of west virginia. we'll bring you that live right here on msnbc. contessa brewer now joins us for a look at some other headlines today. ed, we have breaking news

coming out of boston. authorities are now at the scene of a fire at a ten-story condominium in boston's back bay area. we're just getting our first shots on the scene. you can see the fire trucks with their ladders pulled out. apparently they extended those ladders to get at the tenth floor. "the boston globe" reports at least one person so far has been rescued. we're waiting on word of any injuries that may have been sustained not seeing flames here but certainly the firefighters on the scene. we'll keep our eye on it. an antigovernment uprising has turned deadly in kyrgyzstan. the country's health ministry says 40 people were killed, more than 400 injured after protesters clashed with police. the unrest swept across several cities in the former soviet republic. an american ally which now houses a u.s. air base. president obama is scheduled to depart for the czech republic in just a few hours. the president will sign the arms control agreement with russian president dimitry medvedev tomorrow in prague. it comes on the heels of the obama administration's announcement it will not use nuclear weapons against

nonnuclear states even in self-defense. it's also happening as 47 nations prepare for a nuclear summit in washington next week. florida attorney general bill mcklum today announced five states will join the florida-led lawsuit challenging the health care reform law. 12 other states from north dakota, mississippi, pennsylvania, and alabama filed suit in florida's northern district last month. they claim health care reform infringes on the sovereignty of states and the tenth amendment to the constitution also claiming it violates the rights of individuals by forcing them to buy health insurance. some breaking news here in a mysterious bomb plot in east texas that left residents and postal workers increasingly nervous. the feds say they have made an arrest. at least 14 explosive devices have been found in the postal drop boxes since the beginning of the year. nbc news juice 'tis correspondent pete williams joins us with the latest. what are you learning? >> reporter: a federal law enforcement official says that the arrest that was made today

is directly related to these cases. very strange as you say about two dozen devices, it started with liquid containers, bottles with wicks in them and then progressed to pipe bombs and the law enforcement official says some of these were in essence working pipe bombs or fully constructed ones. none of them ever went off. no one was ever hurt. they placed some in postal service drop boxes, some on postal service property, some on private property. the arrest has been made and we hope to find out in an hour or so exactly what this person who placed them had in mind. what was his reason for doing this? why didn't any of them ever go off? so we'll know some answers shortly. at one time the postal inspection service and the bureau of alcohol, tobacco, firearms, and explosives issued a $25,000 reward for information about this case so perhaps we'll find out whether that had a role, too, contessa. >> pete, i know you're keeping an eye on that. thank you very much. those are the big headlines we're watching right now, ed. >> did you watch the basketball game last night, contessa? >> i did not watch it at all.

>> i didn't either. i thought maybe you could tell me who won. i'm sorry. >> i can. in a half hour i will. >> all right. thank you. all right. two republican heavyweights are teaming up right now in minnesota. thousands of gop faithful are packed into the minneapolis convention center waiting to hear sarah palin's stump for tea party darling congresswoman michele bachmann. we should point out that the tickets are free. in what's believed to be an unprecedented move president obama has given the cia authority to assassinate an american-born muslim cleric. and confederate history rises again. on "the ed show" tonight we'll discuss the governor of virginia's controversial move to redeclare april confederate history month. the reverend jesse jackson will be joining me with reaction. everything is better with swanson broth in it. made with garden vegetables and sun-drenched herbs.

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welcome back to msnbc. developing right now, these are live pictures from minneapolis, minnesota where sarah palin is set to take the stage at any moment campaigning for minnesota congresswoman michele bachmann. republican officials say they've handed out more than 10,000 tickets to this rally. bachmann is seeking re-election in november and with the rnc embroiled in bondagegate and no clear cut gop front runner in place for 2012 for some these two women have become the new face of the republican party. stephany miller is a liberal nationally syndicated radio talk show host and mike miller a conservative radio talk show host. mike, you first. could it be palin and bachmann the two front runners for 2012? 10,000 people in the blue state. that's not bad.

>> listen, these two women put the underpants in such a bunch it is so much fun to watch. the sooner you understand this stuff, your head will explode, schultz get ready for psycho talk. they are not the leaders of the tea party. we look at the 56 signers of the declaration for our cues and the sooner you understand that the sooner you'll stop foaming at the mouth at every last move of sarah palin and michele bachmann. >> okay. i'll take that as counseling, mike, in a very rude manner. stephanie, how about you? your thoughts on the psycho talker that was just on msnbc. >> well, i'm just lucky that you have such good hair and makeup people because they just wiped the spit l from my mouth and put my head back together after it exploded i guess. i'm all atwitter that sarah palin is almost there and will she wear leather again, ed? in the wake of the bondagegate, rnc scandal. i don't know. i don't think she'll go with the leather again i think we need to point out that there is no one in the tea party movement or in the

conservative movement, mr. slater, that can draw a crowd or money like sarah palin. now, if that's foaming at the mouth that might be what you call it where you come from and where you broadcast but the fact is she is a political force and right now i'd like you to tell me who is the political force greater than sarah palin in the gop? >> she is one of many forces and many voices. >> give me another name. that can compare to sarah palin in the republican party right now. newt gingrich doesn't get these crowds. mitt romney doesn't get these crowds. none of them get these crowds. so tell me who in the gop can get crowds like sarah palin because if we know we'll go cover them, too. >> ed, this is what you don't understand and what you need to understand. we don't look to them. we look to ourselves and to the constitution. we look to the declaration. it's great she gets these crowds but it's no more than that.

>> okay. >> it's not that important. it's something. >> okay. >> does that make sense at all? >> stephanie, they say they look to the constitution. it naes the constitution to have a census and michele bachmann has urged people not to fill out the census. what do we make of that? >> yes. until she realized it might get her unelected if people don't fill out the census. you know, ed, why do we cover anything michele bachmann or sarah palin say? mike, what are you listening to them for, the intellectual stimulation? i can't make sense of anything either one of them says. >> you either consider them a threat or they're irrelevant. pick one. which is it? a threat or irrelevant? >> oh, no, no. i hope they're your leaders. i do. you know, i just, all i'm saying do you think there is let's say they're the think tank of the republican party right now? >> i think sarah palin best serves -- >> do you think these are intellectually capable women of say running the country?

>> let me tell you what we talked about this morning. john loch, paragraph 57, the purpose of law is to expand freedom. these are the things we and the people in west tennessee talk about. it's not all about sarah palin is what i'm trying to say. >> okay. good to have you with us, mike. appreciate your time. stephanie miller always a pleasure. we'll keep our eye on this rally for you as it has drawn 10,000 people in minneapolis. a fast food chain is turning your usual chicken sandwich inside out. kfc is about to launch the double down. it's two slabs of fried chicken sandwich around two pieces of bacon, two melted slices of cheese, and the colonel's sauce. the sandwich was initially made in two test markets but it did so well the restaurant is rolling it out nationwide next week. [ male announcer ] when you start with simple ingredients,

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welcome back to msnbc.

the obama administration has authorized the assassination of an american citizen it believes is a radical muslim cleric who was inciting terrorism. our guest is an investigative correspondent with "newsweek" magazine. the targeted man is anwar al awlaki and this man is obviously one with terrorist connections. what does this really mean? how aggressive do you think the united states will be in trying to take this man out? >> i think the united states will be very aggressive and already has been. i don't know whether you know that much about this guy but he was an imam who first of all i believe hung out in san diego with some people connected with the 9/11 attacks and then moved to suburban washington, a mosque there, where he also hung out with some people connected with the 9/11 attacks. then after 9/11 he fled first of all to england where i think the british government decided they

didn't like him very much so he went off to his -- yemen, which is his family ancestral home, and there basically became one of the most important english language preachers of jihad ideology on the internet. the u.s. government until recently regarded him as basically an agitator but not an actual operator, not a terrorist operative. but following evidence developing during the case of the fort hood shooter major hasan and the case of the christmas day underpants bomber, in both cases it was discovered that al awlaki had some contact with these individuals and in the case of the underpants bomber may have helped instigate the actual plot, the government decided, you know, this is somebody we don't really like very much. he's somebody that it might be to the advantage of the united states though he is an american citizen to go out and get him. >> is he one of al qaeda's top recruiters? do we know for sure if he's in

the arabian peninsula right now? >> yeah. he is believed to be hanging out in some sort of tribal lands in yemen inside the borders of yemen protected by, very heavily by members of his ancestral tribe. that's what officials of the government of yemen have said and what the u.s. government believes. stow is going to be very hard to go in and get him without causing problems for the government of yemen which is pretty fragile in any case. but maybe there is some way if they can find him they can get him from above like the way they're getting these people in pakistan. >> how would this be done? would it be with a drone, with i guess you could say some unsavory trained characters who are, you know, highly trained by united states military or cia, covert operations? how would this take place? >> as you may or may not know, again, the obama administration not long after it came in to office about a year ago discovered that the cia had been working on various plans or

schemes to set up hit teams to go and get terrorists. the director of the cia, leon panetta, decided this was not a good thing to do and he went and told congress and said we're not going to do that. on the other hand the cia does as you know though they don't admit it have a pretty extensive campaign, in fact very intense at the moment of attacking alleged terrorist targets in pakistan covertly using a drone-borne missiles. some years ago the u.s. used such a drone-borne missile to attack a terror suspect in yemen of all places and an attack in which an american suspect was also killed. there was some sort of attack on christmas eve, the day before the bombing on a house in yemen where a suspected terrorist was hanging out and they thought this guy al awlaki had been there though he was not the principal target because at that time the proper authorization

was not given to go kill this american guy. they thought they might have gotten him which they didn't. now it's going to be more difficult to get him. >> mark, thanks so much for that report today. >> thank you very much. the head of the republican party is fighting for his political life but "the washington post" chris cillizza says michael steele could still make a comeback if he does one of five things. now to west virginia where we are waiting for new information from officials on efforts to rescue the four trapped miners. we'll bring you the news conference as soon as it begins right here on msnbc.des of athletic fabrics in mind, stayfree® with thermocontrol™ quickly wicks moisture away for exceptional dryness. thermocontrol™ only from stayfree®. a man can only try... and try...and try. [ male announcer ] honey nut cheerios tastes great and can help lower cholesterol. bee happy. bee healthy. ♪

i'm julia boorstin with your cnbc market wrap. let's look at how stocks are trading today moving down lower. the dow is down about 96 points. s&p 500 off 9.5. nasdaq off over 12 points. golf star tiger woods is set to appear in a new nike ad today, the first since salacious details of his private life emerged last year.

"the wall street journal" reports the ad will include the recorded voice of tiger's late father, earl woods, where he seemingly talks to his son about taking responsibility for his actions. general motors says it sees a chance to become profitable this year, this despite a $4.3 billion loss in the last half of 2009 as the company grap ld with weak u.s. sales and repaying government loans. gm received $52 billion in bailout aid. the company says it plans to pay off its government loans by june, five years ahead of schedule. that's it from cnbc, first in business worldwide. welcome back to msnbc news. i'm ed schultz and you're looking live at pictures from west virginia right now. officials are expected to hold a news conference at any minute now and bring us up to date on the efforts to rescue those four missing miners. we'll bring it to you here on msnbc. right now crews are working to vent poisonous gases from deep inside the mine site but until

those noxious gases are fully cleared rescuers cannot safely enter the mine. nbc's brian mooar is in naoma, west virginia. any more on those ambulances rushing to the scene about a half hour ago? >> reporter: they weren't rushing to the scene and we can't read too much into it other than we saw some ambulances heading in that general direction and on previous mine disasters saw this. they're lining up the pieces and officials are doing everything they can on that mountain to get the rescue workers inside. make no mistake about it. this is a pains taking process. they have to dig the holes first, six-inch diameter holes to try to vent some of this noxious, explosive methane, and then once they have gotten some of that out they had to take some of the ratings to make sure it's safe for rescue workers, 30

have been standing by to be able to go in and begin their search. we're told this was a massive explosion so it's really difficult as they go into this mine, make their way in, to even see their way through as they're sort of feeling their ed. >> brian, also, what are they doing to get new ventilation into the explosion site? how are they doing that? are they just digging a hole or what kind of equipment are they using? >> reporter: well, imagine this.

it's sort of the same kind of drilling process that you use to drill oil. sort of a three-story rig that is drilling down into the ground, fairly slowly, by our perspective, and they got one of these holes down a thousand feet and they said they did it so quickly that they started a second one very quickly with that same rig. there is another one that's drilling at about the same time so they're hoping to get three holes down at the same time. that helps them get some of this gas out of there. not only methane, which is explosive, but also carbon monoxide, equally deadly. what they're trying to do is equalize the air in there so it's just safe enough that these rescue workers can get in, start moving around, and start searching and really they're just hoping and praying at this point that these four unaccounted for miners have bunkered down, they're doing a sort of shelter in place by the book just like all miners across this country are trained and that they're just waiting for

help. that's what they're hoping. >> brian mooar in west virginia, thanks for that report. we'll bring you the latest as the news conference from west virginia is going to start at any moment. contessa brewer is back with a look at other stories we're watching at this hour. >> reporter: two days after a florida man made an emotional plea for the return of his missing wife he is under arrest charged with his wife's murder. police release a startling surveillance video they say shows munawar toha loading his wife's body into the trunk of a car and pushing the car into the lake. shortly before he made an emotional plea for his wife's return at a news conference. the 63-year-old is now charged with premeditated murder. residents on sumatra island are experiencing aftershocks after a powerful earthquake struck the region, a 7.7 magnitude quake which triggered a small tsunami and widespread power blackouts. there were reports of minor damage in many areas but fortunately no deaths reported.

rio de janeiro is getting pounded with heavy rain for a second round today. it triggered killer mud slides that swept over homes and neighborhoods. the death toll stands at a hundred with many more feared dead. 1200 people have been left homeless and at least 10,000 more homes are still threatened. the space shuttle "discovery" successfully docked with the international space station this morning. the commander manually guided the shuttle into position at 3:44 a.m. eastern time. despite what nasa calls a radar failure. just moments later the seven-member shuttle crew were welcomed aboard by the six astronauts already on the station. next, the astronauts will begin transmitting laser images of the shuttle to mission control. they'll look for any signs of possible damage. all right, ed. this story is for you, buddy. the u-conn women did it again last night winning the ncaa championship but the victory was no layup. the huskies scored just 12 points in the first half. they didn't panic though.

they rallied back to beat stanford, 53-47, part of an unbelievable streak u u-conn has won 78 straight games including two national titles and they've been called one of the most dominant sports teams ever. men or women. so there. if you left that game back when the score was really skewed you would have missed an amazing comeback, ed. >> i tell you what. from the numbers you threw up there, heck, that rivals john wooten's teams at ucla. >> right. ever. men or women. >> thanks, contessa. the republican national committee is trying to stop the hemorrhaging in the wake of one dismissal and two resignations after revelations about a wild spending at a bondage themed strip club in west hollywood. it prompted calls for rnc chairman michael steele to step down with over six months until the mid-term elections. but it may not be over for steele. chris cillizza is here to tell us how steele may be able to hold up under the heat and

pressure and keep his job. chris is the author of "the fix" on washington post.com he joins us from the nation's capital. chris, good to see you. >> thanks for having me. >> you bet. give us the comeback plan here. >> sure. >> what do you think michael steele has to do? >> let me give you a couple points. the first one, any time i can quote al davis the owner of the oakland raiders i try to. his famous credo, just win, baby. that is what michael steele needs to do. in some ways, ed, i think michael steele is in this job still because of virginia and new jersey governor races and the massachusetts special election. three big wins for republicans in the last year. you've got two house special elections coming up, one in pennsylvania, one in hawaii on may 18th animae 22nd. the best antidote is to win there. the other big one, money. remember, money is what drives all of this. if he can't raise the money there will be questions. he had a good day today, $11.4

million raised for the republican national committee, their best march in a mid-term year ever. of course it was trumped. the democratic party raised $13 million in march. so a lot of energy and money around the health care debate. a good number for michael steele and the last big one i would look at is don't turn yourself, don't further yourself into a gaffe machine. michael steele has been very public for much of his chairmansh chairmanship, much to his detriment of his public image saying inopportune and inpolitic things. he needs to stay on message. he has zero margin for error at this point. >> and expand the advisers. does he have anybody in mind? >> the problem now, ed, is critics say he's only got two guys in there now both of whom worked for him when he ran for the senate in 2006 and neither of whom will tell him no. he needs to bring more people in even if it's only as a part of a show, bring them in so they don't talk bad about him. it's harder to talk bad about

somebody when you've been in a room with them. >> you say a series of sitdowns. is that sitdowns with the media and communicate to the public or is it sitdowns with key players in the party who want to see him out? >> well, as a reporter i would always advocate sitting down with members of the media. i put myself first in that line. i was talking specifically about sitting down with some of the people who have been most critical of him. i suggested tony perkins, the head of the family research council, social conservative group who essentially said -- >> they threw him under the bus. >> right. we're not giving any more money to the rnc. have a public sitdown. come out and say we're moving forward forthe -- the good of the party. michael steele has to try to embrace his critics to move forward and show this is about the good of the party not the good of michael steele. it's a very precarious situation. i wasn't saying he could do it but i do think there are ways in which he could solidify where he is today, which frankly isn't saying all that much.

>> it's the old thing, chris, sales solves a lot of problems. bring in the money and he's going to be okay. chris cillizza author of the fix on washington post.com. thanks for joining us. a debate pitting conservative versus cost in maryland? the governor's plan to ramp up solar energy use would make consumers pay more. all right. a fight that's heating up in the state legislature. by this time tomorrow tiger woods will be back in the game. tee time is set for the we'll get a preview in a live report from augusta. i still had high cholesterol. that really hit me, and got me thinking about my health. i knew i had to get my cholesterol under control. but exercise and eating healthy weren't enough for me. now i trust my heart to lipitor. [ male announcer ] when diet and exercise are not enough, adding lipitor has been shown to lower bad cholesterol 39 to 60%. lipitor is backed by over 17 years of research.

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maryland. governor martin o'maly wants to require utility companies in his state to accelerate their use of solar power and that has some lawmakers claiming the move would force consumers to unnecessarily pay more for their electricity. state senator from maryland, a democrat, favors the bill, pushing energy companies to spend more on solar power but maryland republican state senator e.j. says no thanks and opposes the bill. let me ask you, why would you oppose advancing energy independence? what do you think of this? >> i think the goal is very noble. i certainly want to see us move toward a renewable portfolio as well but again, the problem is in the details. the details here, in my opinion this amounts to corporate welfare. it helps one particular industry at the expense of abillion dollar tax on maryland consumers. >> is that true? >> well, what we're talking

about is cleaner electricity, creating hundreds of jobs that you can't outsource for installers, for maintenance of solar electricity and what not, and we're talking about three cents potentially more, three pennies more on the electric, average homeowner's electric monthly bill. three cents is what we're talking about. >> is that right, mr. pipken, is that too much? three cents? is that number accurate? >> no. i disagree with that number. the public service commission shows in the out years as we go forward this could well cost over a hundred dollars a year for certain consumers and as we go forward these aren't really jobs for maryland. these are jobs for china because as we've seen on a national basis a lot of these jobs aren't being produced here in maryland or in the united states. they're being exported to china. >> is that true, robert? >> i don't know how you can export solar installer jobs overseas. you need someone here to put it on a roof top, to repair it if

it needs repairs, to maintain it. i can tell you five years ago at a maryland solar energy conference there were maybe ten people there. went there earlier in january this year. you had hundreds of people there at the solar energy conference. there are hundreds of jobs that have been created in maryland already with some of the efforts we've done and the estimates are that we can create several hundred more with the passage of this legislation. >> let me ask you this. regarding the federal money that's been dished out in the stimulus package, wouldn't that be available to jump-start this program? robert, you start with the answer first on that. >> yes. that's a key, critical component. we have another program at the state level to provide grants to homeowners, to businesses. this is really the third component and it's critical to really spring this industry forward and get clean energy in the state of maryland that equates to about two traditional power plants. we're talking about clean energy on roof tops as opposed to building additional power

plants. >> is there federal money, mr. pipken? what about that? >> there is federal money in different programs but this bill doubles the amount of solar power maryland is going to be required to produce. the public service commission says that's unreachable. instead of producing more solar power what it is going to do is in effect tax consumers even though they have no say in the process. while the bill may generate a couple hundred installer jobs, for a billion dollars i hope we get a lot more than a couple hundred installers throughout the state of maryland. the idea here is that the consumer doesn't have a choice. the goals are unrealistic. the penalties are being increased in the bill. the net result is that the consumer pays a tax on solar power on other forms of renewable energy -- when other forms of renewable energy may be more friendly to the consumer and less expensive. >> we're talking pennies on an electric bill. >> gentlemen, i appreciate your time on msnbc on this forward thinking story. let's go live to the news conference in west virginia.

>> a sample has been taken. and we have, for a comfort level for the rescuers that are going in, they want to make sure that they have the necessary facts and make those decisions. that means we have more samples to be taken. but we can explain, kevin i think or joe or however you all want to explain exactly where we are in that process, what's our time frame, and we'll go from there. i'll let kevin come forward if you will. >> speak up a little. okay. i'm sorry. >> kevin, speak loud. >> i can do that. as all of you know the bore hole went through, the number one bore hole went through about 4:00 this morning. the drill stills were pulled out and we've begun sampling in that bore hole. the concentrations of gas, i'll

give round about numbers, the first sample that we took from that bore hole was about 14,000 parts per million co or 1.4% co which is really high. about 10,000 parts per million of hydrogen, which is also very high. and about 3% of methane, which is not in the explosive range by itself but when you take into account both hydrogen and co, it puts it in an area that does make it close if not explosive as well as 15% oxygen. that sample was being taken from the top of the bore hole and what we've asked the company to do is take a sample at the bottom of the bore hole to verify that there is no concentrations of gas from the top to the bottom of the sample that's influencing the sample to make sure we're reading the same

thing. in addition, the bore hole number two is going in close to number one two is going in close to number one and a borehole number three is going to go in close to number two. we had a slight problem at the surface because of these high concentrations of co that we see coming out of this borehole. it was to the point that it was affecting the drillers. they're standing right next to where in nauseous gas is coming out and wei asked the company and they've readily agree to run -- two being a two-foot piece of tube, meaning from the exhaust coming out of the surface of this 1.4 to 1.2% of co away from where the people are working. in addition, we've spent about two hours, the state, the company and emp shalook at other things that we can do. and one of the things that we want to do when we either get into the mine or drilling from

the surface is confirm that none of the other refuge chambers have been deployed. so the company is making arrangements to put boreholes in close to where the other refuge's chambers are located at, including the one in the long wall 22 section that we've talked about earlier. we hope to get in there before that borehole kboet goes in but if some reason our readings are h haywire we want the opportunity to look at these boreholes to looking at the location to see if the chambers had been deployed. the one concern we have when we left the 22 section, we had smoke and these high gas concentrations. if we're going to send a rescue team in there, we have to be able to say that it's safe for them to go in there. they typically would only advance at a thousand-foot acrements and looking at it is about a 2,000 foot advance.

so we want the air to be clear enough that qulet them go without being on smoke, without them being on lifeline and proceed quickly to the upper end of here, if we have time to -- i mean we're at 48 hours with the refuge alternative. we just can't take any chances of the rescue teams going into an area that could of itself cause a problem or an explosion or put them in by a smoke concentration, get turned around without being in contact with other members of the team or with people in fresh air. so we've asked the families to be patient. that we want to make sure that we don't run them back out and i'm basically saying to you the same thing that we just discussed with the families. >> let me just say that, as kevin was saying, about the families. the families are in agreement in the additional time it's taking to make sure that the rescue

operation is safe. they agree. and they understand. we also talked very frankly about our best chances right now for that sliver of hope that we have or the miracle that if any of our miners unaccounted for could have gotten into the chamber, and we know if they did, the time that they were in from the time envelope that we have to work within, and they understand that. and to put anybody else in harm's way, they want to make sure that the readings that we have is something that is confirmed that emsha, joe, and our staff are on the same page before we send anybody in so they're work feverishly to make that determination. and it's -- >> do you have an idea of the time line right now, or not? >> well, here's what we're going do. we're going to come back again at 8:30. we're going to miss the 6:00 or the 6:30 because it gives them time do what they have do to make these decisions and hopefully have the readings.

we'll have a better chance of getting those readings at that time to give you something more concrete. so you're asking about the time frame before the rescushion operation would start, we can't give you that. what we can, by, by we hope 8:30, is any determination that we have safe enough figures to move or not, correct? >> one way or the other. determine where we're at. >> governor, is it safe to say that when you have levels this time that it's setback for you all? >> we've been working against long odds from day one. our family members, all of them, know that the -- these are mining families, traditional. they understand what we're talking about. they understand the lethalness of the gasses. and that, you know, to put things in perspective, you have a scenario where we had the sago disaster. we had rando in 11,000. we're talking 14,000.

the extreme highs, unheard levels. i mean 50 parts is -- people don't work past the 50 so it gives you a comparison. 50, 11,000, 14,000. but we never had chambers. i mean the sliver of hope that we have, could someone have withstood and managed not to get caught into the blast? could somebody have gotten into the chamber? that's that sliver that we're hanging onto. whether it's the four that are unaccounted. 1 of the 4, all of the four. the families, they're dealing in real terms. and realistically understand. these are tough. it's tough. >> the rescue. what kind of time line are you look at in terms of getting a camera in bottom of of the boreholes and look at chambers? >> i just want to followup before i get the answer to your first -- this question, i want to go and just followup on the governor. the numbers don't surprise me. i mean, we knew what we had when

we had the rescue teams underground. we've paved our instruments, so that number doesn't surprise me. i mean, the only -- and we talked about the sliver of hope. we're hoping if someone the ability and we had no way of knowing this is to get to that chamber. that would be the only way that any individual could survive. there's no other way that that could be done. the company is looking at how long they think it would take for them to get to these areas to put the boreholes in. so we don't have that information now. that will probably be something that we'll have later. we had two to three-hour meeting up there with the company and the state and that was one of the things on the table that we asked the company to evaluate and see when you can get these boreholes put into the mine. >> 300 feet from this hole is too far for cameras to pick up anything? >> well, the camera can only pick up about -- what we would see -- if we had a camp lamp on which is probably about a hundred feet that would be about as far as we could stick a camera in and expect it to see and we're talking 500 to 600

feet. a good decision was made for where this borehole went in to ventilate the area out. and we've got three of them going in. but in addition to that, we think it would be a good idea to put boreholes in close to where these refuge chambers are just to confirm, or not confirm the chambers have been opened or not opened. >> and when you say -- >> the gas was affecting be the drilling coming out of the hole. how did that affect your operation? did you have to stop? any time delay related to that. >> a little time delay while we were in the process to get the tubing. it did not deliver the fan operation at that time. >> [ inaudible question ]. >> they did not. it was in a lower range though. the governor talked about 50 parts per million being the limit, if it goes above 50 it would go into alarm. not expect anybody to be in greater than 50 parts for million and decided to give them a clean atmosphere to operate

in. >> kevin, how did it affect them. >> [ inaudible question ]. >> could you repeat that? >> will these additional boreholes take as long. >> the number three hole going in close to where the number one hole should be pretty close to the same time frame. they have apparently a drill, they call it a hammer drill that actually drills quicker than the other one and that's the drill they'll be using for hole number three. >> can someone explain the convoy the ambulances? >> i cannot explain a convoy of ambulances. they're not affecting anybody at this mine, at this time. >> is this a stream of -- that you're dealing with? or was this an explosion, just a one bang, isolated pocket. >> could you repeat that question, sir. >> you are dealing with a stream of methane throughout the entire mine. >> methane is continually the liberated in the coal mine. so i mean that's something that we're always aware of and have to be concerned with, and that's the whole intent of putting these boreholes in, to try to clear the area out so we don't

think -- we'll limit the chances that there could be another explosion. >> kevin, a significant levels of co -- >> can you go over the acceptable levels again the co, hydrogen, and how long would one ventilation hole it would take. >> if we were working in a coal mine, we would not want to work in greater than 50 parts per million of co and we would not want to work in less than 19.5% oxygen, and we would not want to work in greater than 1% methane. hydrogen in a normal mine is zero. so we're dealing with numbers that are way above and beyond what we typically see in a mine, but we're dealing with a situation that is not normal at all either. these are typical numbers after an explosion. and you just have to clear the area out. make sure there's not another explosion, a chance of another explosion. make sure there isn't another

fire that exists, and make sure the oxygen content is enough to allow rescuers to go in and comfortably evaluate the situation without worrying about if something sbad going bad is happen to them. we will keep you up to date on the developments in west virginia. i'm ed schultz. ooilt be back with you tonight at 6:00 with the ed shuttle show" right now it is time for the "dylan ratigan show" here on msnbc. >> if they were going in bear-faced -- they'd be able to go in anything over 19 -- >> all right, good afternoon to you. we'll continue to monitor that presser from the mine in fact we're going back to revisit the conversation a little bit later in the show. good afternoon to you. i am dylan ratigan. we begin today with the great con job. new evidence about how wall street and our government were conning us out of our money during the financial meltdown and how they are still conning us out of our money to this day by the trillion. meanwhile, they want to raise

taxes and interest rates, right? anyway, plus, news today of a -- from the mideast. can he succeeds where past presidents have failed? and also the debate over celebrating confederate history month. it's happening just steps away from our nation's capitol, and the show starts right now. well, in america today we are getting closer to fully exposing the greatest con and cover-up in this history, it involves our banks, the federal reserve, our congress, and, of course, you and me. first, though, think of the fed as the godfather in this con. >> i'm going to make him an offer you can't refuse. >> the role of "the godfather" played by former