we teach. i didn't know mr. beck before all this. i just said, let's have a conversation about this. i think you're making a mistake here. i didn't say debate, conversation. then he said she hammer will fall on you and the cute little people who work for your organization. i'm on his black board now. >> i'm trying to decipher right from wrong in fairness. they have called the president a marxist and communist and everything else because of this health care bill. what does the christian faith say about health care and providing for those who need it? >> the first words out of jesus mouth at nazareth, he said the spirit of the lord is upon me because he has anointed me to bring good news to the poor, he says, as you've done to the least of these, i was hungry, thirsty, naked, a stranger, i was sick, i was in prison, as you've done to them, you've done

to me. healing is at the heart of the gospel. people can have different views of policies and bills, making 31 million people, bringing them into a christian, most say that's a good idea. >> would you say beck is dazed and confused about this subject? >> there are christian, republican, independent, democrat, that have different views from the government. a wonderful friend of mine in latin america said when i fed the poor, they called mae saint. when i asked why people are poor, they called me a communist. these words of justice and economic justice are biblical words, the prophets of jesus. i wish he would have a conversation with some of us. this is at the mission of the church. all of us believe this. he really should stop attacking the churches here. it's not going to be good for him and for his mission.

i won't be good for him. >> good to have you with us tonight. telephone survey tonight, i asked do you think tiger woods learned his lesson? 53% said yes, 43% said no. that's "the ed show." back tomorrow night. . the party of lincoln, let's play "hardball." good evening. i'm chris matthews. down in washington leading off tonight, gone with the wind, talking about that proclamation of virginia governor bob mcdonnell of the human rights month. he didn't mention the civil war and now mentions slavery. why would a governor want to celebrate a war that fought to deny voting rights and rights

all together, had 6 million americans footing at each other at point bla-blank range acrossn fields. >> and tea partiers have called president obama a socialist, terrorist, and now saying tea parties are like the kkk and says, quote, they've taken over the republican party. he'll be with us tonight. could we be seeing a replay of last summer's hostile town meetings? >> excuse me. excuse me. >> this was a scene from debbie wasserman-schultz's reascent to hall and a democrat that got the same treatment. >> how much did a republican pay at a vermont winery for quote office supplies? that's our sideshow. and a political association long called the party of lincoln that might now be in need of some rebranding. let's start with governor

mcdonnell's proclamation and his apology. a democratic strategist from msnbc and great great-niece of robert e. lee and pat buchanan, a member of the sons confederate veterans and very close scotch irish fan of stonewall jackson. here we have it. i don't think we need to give you your uniforms, i think you know which side you are on, talking to you, karen, a proud heir to the confederacy, one could say. here's part of the governor's apology. the quote to include any reference to slavery in that proclamation to confederate history month. for that, i apologize. to any fellow virginian disappointed. it was issued soley to promote the study of our history, encourage tourism and recognize virginia's unique role in this story of america. what kind of african-american tourist would want to celebrate

confederate history month, pat? is this just for white tourist? a push for tourism. >> the 175th anniversary. virginia was part of the old south confederacy. there's a lot of misinformation. virginia did not su seed over slavery. virginia stayed in the union at the time of fort sumter. what took them out of the union when abraham lincoln said, we want 75,000 volunteers, your militia and your soldiers in the union to attack the deep south and bring them back to the union, they said we're not going to kill our kinsman. that's how virginia left the union. >> they refused to take sides against the union with the rebels? >> they refused to send their sons to kill their kinfolk. >> to bring back the union? >> kill their kinfolk. >> i think that's a technical point. virginia had slavery and believed in slavery and would have kept it had there not been a civil war. >> wait a minute.

there were eight slave states in the union at the time of fort sumter and seven in the confederacy. >> gentlemen, that's not the point. >> the point of the civil war was slavery. >> the point today is bob mcdonnell missed an important opportunity. i'm also a proud great great granddaughter of slaves and we were owned by the phinneys of virginia. that is an american story. there is a broader american story, if we're going to elbright our history, let's tell the whole story and the whole history let's celebrate the whole history and not pick and choose the facts we like and don't like. >> this is the facts i think you like, pat. this is from your battle flag organization, sons of confederate veterans. the citizen soldiers who fought for the confederacy personify the best qualities of america, the prersvation of liberty and freedom was a motivating factor in the south's decision to fight the second american revolution. the preservation of liberty and freedom was the motivating

factor in the south's decision to fight the second american revolution. what's that mean? i don't understand what it means. how can you say you're for liberty and freedom? >> let me explain it to you. i had a great-grandfather that died at vicksberg and another killed -- captured in the battle of atlanta by sherman and want ed to burn the city and commit atrocities all the way to the sea. they wanted to be as independent of the american union as the founding fathers. why did jefferson -- >> so they could keep slaves. >> jefferson wanted to keep slaves, washington wanted to keep slaves, five of your first -- >> 600,000 americans were dead because you guys wanted to keep slaves. >> that is complete nonsense, chris, your founding fathers had slaves? >> i know. that was wrong. >> does that mean they wanted to be free of non-slave england. >> immediately the south began to su seed over what issue? >> lincoln was elected and the republican party was in power, lincoln didn't get a vote in the

south. they wanted out of -- >> what was the issue? voting rights? postal service? what was the issue? was it crops. >> they didn't want to kill their own kinfolk. that's virginia's issue. >> let's get started. this michlt began ovovement beg issue of slavery. tell me i'm wrong. >> you're wrong. lincoln offered to make slavery permanent. he offered to run down fugitive slaves if the slaves came back. >> the idea was -- >> no, he held that. >> that's right. scared the hell out of the confederacy, formed the confederacy, succeeded from the union and lincoln said you will not escape, you're staking with us and your side, said let's fight. >> someone said let's hear both sides. >> let's not readjudicate the civil war. >> that's what's going on here.

>> they don't need claim the glory those of confederacy without mentioning why it was founded. i think that's an oversight. many believe he did this to solidify his base and win himself a place on the ticket next time around as the conservative counter point to mitt romney's political philosophies indecipherable. >> any time you talk about states rights, that comes from those defenders of slavery. there are certain code words and words do matter. bob mcdonnell, this is a pattern we've seen before, they say something stupid, they try to fix it, and then actually they end up sort of inflaming progressives and conservatives. i think in this instance, mcdonnell missed a really important point. politically speaking he went back and checked the boxes and corrections and made the phone calls. there's more going on here -- >> state's rights. >> in terms of this idea of the sovereignty of state.

we've heard that politically over the last couple of weeks, pat. there's more going on politically. >> let's talk about it. >> that is a very specific tactic out of the rove playbook designed to incite people's anger when you talk about state's rights and sovereignty. i know exactly what you're doing? >> let's talk states rights and nullification. you know where they came from? the kentucky and virginia resolutions written by jefferson and madison, who wanted to nullify adams' law, the alien and sedition acts, they say you don't have to obey these laws, that's where the laws came from. >> ultimately the supreme court of the united states then decided -- >> i know that but don't deny the truth of this history. >> don't deny all of it is my point. >> why are republicans in the south, like rick perry sucking su session and his opponent, med dinna talking nullification and bill mccullough running for attorney general talking about

preventing the invasion and sovereignty of the state, this is the lingo, as you point out, of the civil war fight. why are the ripping the scab off the civil war. it's a not us, i'm not bringing it up. you're defending. >> it it's becoming a lot of people are coming to detest their government, chris. >> the north. >> not the north, any government of the united states. >> they like their governments. >> they like their state governments and they don't like their national governments. >> and succeed from the union. >> i don't know if they want to go that far but there's a real feeling of people they do not like this government, too big and too oppressive. >> who was right in the civil war? >> i think in a way both sides were right. i think lincoln had a right to save the union and they had a right to go free. >> the right to fight that war. >> robert e. lee was right to defend his fellow folks. >> if he had said i'm not going to fight, maybe there wouldn't have been a civil war, maybe if guys like him had stood up and

sticking with the union. if you listened to sam huston, you wouldn't have had that war. >> virginia had to lie down and let them march over virginia. >> i want to go back to your other point. there's something very disturbing happening in this country when you do have leaders, republican leaders using certain phrases that are code phrases, not even just about the civil war but again, designed to have a very specific impact in inflaming the base, motivating the base, rather than -- >> pat doesn't need code. pat's arguing, he doesn't need any -- he thinks the federal union was maybe equally right to the south, maybe. >> i think they both had a moral position. >> america is in a very difficult time right now. you can't count on the church or corporations like toyota that will put profits over people. the church will protect priests over children. our government is broken. >> you want to talk about that, too? >> lighting a match and setting it on gasoline is not the thing

to do, pat. terribly responsible. we have death threats going on to members of congress. >> and taking control of everything -- >> governor mcdonnell says in his defense as a boost to his state, he was going to boost tourism by having confederate history month, would any african-americaning go to virginia to celebrate confederate history or just white people? >> i will answer the question. i think many african-americans, asians, hispanics and white americans. would you go as a white american, would you go celebrate the confederacy? sn>> i find that history very interesting and fascinating. >> would you celebrate because of the confederacy? of course not. >> there have been reenactments. >> my sons have been in reenactments. karen, are you angry about pat's position? >> of course. >> i'm not angry about her. >> there are both sides.

>> you don't think robert e. lee, her an tester was honorable? >> he was on the wrong side. >> comparing the tea party movement to the kkk. more of this coming here but without the robes and hoods, more of this argument. you're watching "hardball" on msnbc. absolutely! i have a lot of stuffiness at night. it wakes me up. i have allergies. ♪ you're right. i'm getting more air. -oh, yeah. -oh, wow! [ female announcer ] for two free samples, go to breatheright.com. because with national, i roll past the counter... and choose any car in the aisle. choosing your own car? now that's a good call. go national. go like a pro. what? c'mon, buddy, you know that dunking is for oreo cookies only. dad, this is the oreo of snack cakes. oreo chocolate. soft oreo creme. it was made for dunking. if dunking oreo cakesters were acceptable, there would be a song about it.

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welcome back. the tea party crowd has called president obama a socialist, communist and nazi. now, democratic congressman, steve cohen of tennessee compared the tea party movement itself to the kkk in a radio interview. let's listen to it. >> the tea party people are kind of like without robes and hoods. they have really shown a very hard core angry side of america that is against any type of diversity. and with opposition to african-americans, hostility toward gays, hostility to anybody who wasn't just, you know, a clone of george wallace' fan club. i'm afraid they have taken over the republican party. >> i think it's cultural and these people are ready to be led by the nose and being led. just to be against barack obama. >> we have congressman cohen joining us right now from memphis. thank you for joining us.

give me your insights right up front. i'm i'm a student of the tea party crowd. who are these people? how much is racial? how much is ideological and how much rooted in organizations like the no nothings, kkk, et cete cetera? >> i think there's a lot of it. on the health care vote i walked on the mall among the protesters at least a half hour. i took my congressional badge off, had shades on and walked around. it was a very homogenous group. almost 99% white. i saw a minimal number of african-americans, asians, native americans, they were so alike. after the hatred i saw exposed calling congressman john lewis, one of my heroes and congressman emanuel cleaver, another friend, the "n" word, and spitting on emmanuel cleaver just disgusted me. the names they used for barney frank, it showed a disregard. not all tea party think that

way. when the leadership didn't say anything about it and object, the group for the harmful words and actions, comparing president obama to hitler and nazis. the party does look very bad when they don't stand up and say this was wrong and shameful. >> i was in some anti-war demonstration is in the vietnam war. i remember the big march on the pentag pentagon, although there was thousands and thousands of middle of the road people there who thought the war was a mistake, weren't particularly ideological, there were old reds there, old liberals, old communist is in that group. should war demonstrators have demonstrate aid intelligence them, old line lefties that had shown up to be under the umbrella. do you always as members of a rally rally have to pick fights with oddballs in the group? i'm just giving you on argument. you're saying everybody in the group is responsible for everybody in that group.

i've never seen that standard apply before. >> not everybody. one of the main things the group was against was against health care. dr. king was assassinated in my hometown, memphis, tennessee, we observed that horrific day with activities and remembrances this past weekend. dr. king talked about health care being a right and that one of the great inhumanities was not providing health care to people. then you have this group 40 years later, almost entirely white, opposing the united states government for giving health care to making this is last industrialized country in the world to provide health care for its people. it just doesn't seem like we've come that far and reflecting on doctor king, having been a proponent of health care, seeing the opposition to health care which affects so many people white and black but a disproportionate amount of people who are black, it was just a flash back to an error.

jim clyburn said he hasn't seen words expressed since the '60s by these groups and seemed to be consistent. >> there were people on the right i was listening to, fox, they were denying, laura ingram sitting in for bill o'reilly, they were denying, the voice recording left for john lewis the racist language is on the record, when you were moving in the crowd incognito, did you actually hear these epithets thrown at the members and barney frank for his orientation, did you personally witness that? >> i can't say i was, because i was listening on my ipod. >> you can't witness to that. let me ask you about the e-mails you've been getting, turned over to the fbi. if our tea party wears hoods, we would burn your expletive on the white house lawn and the other says you -- would be nice to read someone had cut your

something throat. is this something new for you or have you had to put up with this before? people in public life, i have gotten some of this over the years, try not to get affected by it. have you gotten this real hate mail before, sir? >> not regularly. not very often. this has been the most vi vitriolic. we've gotten other mail about my religion. this doesn't reflect well at all either. some lady called me the other day, upset about my vote on health care and tea party person and told me she was a 61-year-old lady with disability. i asked if she got her social security disability, she did. she's living off something provided through a democratic congress and she doesn't understand. the same words were used against social security and medicaid and civil rights and voting rights that this was a takeover, too much government, big government and socialism and communism, as american as apple pie now and so will this health care will be.

>> i think the data lost him but sure liked medicare. you're a white fellow in a district largely black. haven't you taken heat for that? aren't there people that make prejudicial statements from the left? >> there are some. my district is a diverse district, predominantly african-american. i get a lot of love in this district and represent the way they need to be represented. our district needs health care, public education, social benefits and we have been able to delivery on those. our district has really overcome a lot. we have come a long way from the assassination from dr. king, 3 days the south was segregated. memphis is on the rise. >> what do you make of this rise of the south, not the good stuff, governor of virginia we just talked about and probably argue with pat for months for this, talking about glor night confederacy and never mentioned slavery and you have governor

perrin texas talking about secession and nullification and all this lingo you and i studied in school way back in the civil war, all coming out and somebody ripping the scab off this, why are the conservatives pushing this fight? >> i do think there's race involved in it because the parties are so separate and people play to their base. the democratic party has mostly african-american support and the republicans don't. they're just playing to their base. it's unfortunate. you need leadership. i think the chuck percent sis, nelson rockefellers, bob dole's, that type of person isn't around anymore. they need moderates within the republican party but not in leadership, these people talking about secession, sounds like nullification and ripping off their lips, not the kind of language you need to bring american together. they talk about bi partnershpar

and talk about meeting me at the state line or secession. these aren't the type of words you hear and you don't hear them in congress, impossible to have bipartnership when party says no, no, no and kill the bill. the whole idea of kill the bill was difficult. i was out on the balcony at the capitol and the verbiage and vitriol was so strong, you knew that they want -- they had ill feelings toward anybody that voted for the bill. tempers got so great. i've been to birmingham, montgomery and selma with john lieuwisin the pilgrimage three weeks earlier, we visited the 16th street church when the hate got so much they were bombed and killed and the government oppressed people who tried to start a voting rights march. to see this language and these attitudes, is there an undercurrent of race, obama, sot

s sot-society sot-society -- they didn't have the biggest budget deficit reduction was the health care bill and yet they were against it. this does not make sense except for the parties. >> i do like the fact you represented martin luther king's words when you said their lips dripping with words like nullification. you have a good memory for dr. king's words. thank you. next, did arlen specter forget he's now a democrat? it does get a little occasion for you. we have to remind you right now. it's very funny. a five star frontal crash safety rating. that's peace of mind for every size family. chevy... may the best car win. like 100% whole grain, the way triscuit does, you always end up with something delicious.

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the "sideshow." there you go again, arlen. a republican and democrat getting caught in the winds of his own change. he was addressing penn state college democrats when he forgot whose team he's on. cue the tape. >> i've probably been endorsed by the college republicans. >> college republicans. they were all democrats, those young kids. don't go changing trying to please me, i'll take you just the way you are, arlen. next, palin balkman, 20s 12. not a joke. it was posed by sean hannity at a rally last night. >> how many of you would like to see a palin bachmann ticket? >> that sounds kind of cool. >> governor palin, are you

thinking about a run again? >> as i have said, i will not close any doors. the world is her oyster. if she wants to run, she has tremendous support from the american people. >> anything can happen in the tea party and republican party. once they merge for the 2012 election. i won't for get congressman bachmann's demand that the candidate for 2012 be a real conservative. and represent king versus the humane society. king objected to their presence at an agriculture conference writing in a press release, quote, the humane society of the united states is run by vegetarians, with and agenda whose goal is to take meat off everyone's table in america. their goal is to make sure people aren't cruel to animals. is congressman king on her to side of that debate? i didn't know anybody was.

>> proof at the rnc, when it rains, it pours, they're already facing themes for charges at a lesbian themed bondage club in hollywood. and the next paper is juicy, the rnc has curious charges in its current sec filings which it labels office supplies, including hundreds of at a clothing boutique, a florida fly fishing store but the most curious bill was at the boydon valley winery in new york. it doesn't sell anything but wine. how much did the office supplies cost? $982. the hits keep coming. $982 on office supplies at a winery. talk about creative accounting? tonight's big number, look out mr. steele. beginning to look like last sup summer, angry voters at town

meetings. we'll talk to two democrats about what they're facing from their people at home. you're watching "hardball." with cheesy breadsticks. new digiorno pizza & breadsticks. taste. believe. it's not delivery. it's digiorno. she found the box. maybe 'cause you left it right on the counter. somewhere in america... the slightest breeze harbors immense power. the tallest buildings leave the lightest footprints. a fifty-ton train makes barely a mark on the environment. and a country facing climate change finds climate solutions. somewhere in america, we've already answered some of the nation's toughest questions. and the over sixty thousand people of siemens are ready to do it again. siemens. answers. ♪ [ male announcer ] we make them beautiful. ♪ we make them tougher. ♪

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i'm christina brown. rescue teams are waiting to re-enter the west virginia mine where four miners remain missing after a deadly explosion. they spent about four hours inside the mine before dangerous gases forced them back to the surface. the qatarry diplomat who caused a bomb scare smoking in a bathroom was on his way to meet with an imprisoned al qaeda member. and president obama signed the biggest arms reduction treaty in a generation and it it vowed it would cut nuclear

arsenals by one-third. benjamin netanyahu canceled plans for a summit in washington and concerned islamic states will try to shift the focus from nuclear terrorism to israel's nuclear arsenal. tiger woods climbing the leaderboard in augusta, ending the day two strokes off the lead at 4 under par. now, back to "hardball." >> welcome back to "hardball." members of congress see and hear a lot of anger back in their district these days about health care, as extreme as death threats for some members and other places anger and civility. a senior center in new hampshire, a democrat running for the senate was rebusted by constituent. he tried to shake her hand. i don't want to shake your hand.

you voted for health care, go away. and shouting started at congressman debbie wasserman-schultz' meeting. >> the historic health care summit led by president obama to reveal 3 details of the health care summit -- excuse me. excuse me. excuse me. >> go home! >> excuse me. i'm going to ask everybody to continue to be respectful. continue to be respectful. >> why weren't you respectful to us when you lie? >> congresswoman, who gave you the right or authority to determine to whether or not i have to purchase health care? >> so what's behind this anger? can democrats do anything to change people's minds? both congressman hodes and wasserman join us now. let me ask you this question. it seems to be the issue grabbing people right now is not the cost or fiscal issues or complicated issues of medical

care, this libertarian argument, you're beginning to hear, i don't want to buy health insurance, you can't make me. >> at my town hall, i did get that question, what gives you the right to force no have health care question. what i explained, a lot of people appreciated this explanation, we did not require in this legislation americans to have health care. what we did was we established a different treatment, via your tax return, just like the difference between married people and unmarried people or people who have children and don't or homeowners and renters. if you choose not to have health care, you can do that. you need to understand you will be treated differently on your tax return at the end of the year and you're going to have to -- you'll be assessed differently than you would have if you carry health care. it was a pretty simple explanation and a lot of people appreciated it. unfortunately, you know, the segment -- the clip you just showed from my town hall, all of those clips were taken by opponents of reform.

they don't really show the fact the overwhelming majority of people that showed up to my town hall were supporters of health care reform, supporters of me and president obama and very enthusiastic. i got a chance to talk to them, my constituents about the fact we closed the medicare part d donut hole and clear up a lot of their questions and highlight the fact that we literally clanged the health care system with the president's signature from a sick care system to prevention and wellness system and took the insurance companies out of the driver's seat and put patients and doctors there where they belong. >> to the congressman from new hampshire. we haven't had you in a long time. this woman gave you the rebuff when you wanted to shake her hand. is that new for you to have that kind of anger? >> this is new hampshire and we have a lot of independent thinkers. what happened at the senior center, i had a great time. there were a table of about a dozen ladies eating lunch. two of them didn't like the health care bill and didn't want

to shake my hand. the other ten said, come on, honey, sit down, let's have lunch, we want to shake your hand. we had a great time at the senior center. there were a couple who weren't happy and an awful lot of people thanking me and especially interested this year, we're going to start closing the donut hole for seniors. >> is this a squeaky wheel situation where the people that don't like it are getting all the noise and reaction from the media. we don't say a great day on 95 last night, there were no accidents, we cover the accidents. that's what news is. it's a sad fact, we're not going to say, everything went great the other day, five people got murdered last night. that's the fact of news coverage. we are going to cover the anger factor. are you saying it's not representative? >> i'm saying it's certainly not representative of my experience this week. i've been out talking about jobs and revitalizing the middle class and health care reform is a jobs bill, especially for small business. people have been thanking me,

when i tell them kids for 19 and under are going to not be denied health insurance for pre-existing conditions, seniors, we'll start closing the donut hole and small business, this means tax credits now to help pay for health insurance for their employees, folks are thanking me. what i've got is -- so i had two ladies who didn't want to shake my hand. we did a public town hall in nashville, advertised all over, advertised in state wide television and newspapers. i had one guy outside with a sign saying, it's my money. inside, i had a crowd that gave me a standing ovation when i walked in, wanted to know details and talk about jobs. >> let me go to congresswoman schultz. i want to know about this thing. a couple things mystify me. if we're closing the donut hole, people who rely on drugs, pharmaceuticals will get a pretty good deal now. won't get cut off at a certain level. that's a very good thing for people as they get older because

they rely more and more on pharmaceuticals and better than not taking them. why are they complaining and people already on medicare a government program kicked into during their working years, why are they against the government role, per se, surprises me. they benefit from a government role, per se, why do these people say why can't the government stay out of health care? what are they talking about? it's inconsistent. >> the senior citizens i represent, representing a district in south florida, i represent a large number of them. when we have a chance to explain through them and cut through the rude bullies essentially trying to take over these meetings and the noise you described getting overcovered in proportion to what's really happening, when we have a chance to explain to seniors they get a $250 check this year when they fall in the donut hole, next year, there will be a 50% cut on name brand drugs when they fall in the donut hole and over the next ten years, completely closed j we're adding nine years of solvency to

medicare and most can't have care because they can't afford the co-pays and deductibles. when we get to explain that, seniors understand and support the bill. the rude bully is in the tea party, some of whom actually came to my town hall meeting the other night. paul, i also got a standing ovation at the beginning and end. 80% of the room was for reform. one guy yelled out to a woman with standing up in support of reform, he yelled out, good, when she talked how she had been brain injured on the job with a lead ball and why she had forgotten her question and asked for another opportunity to ask it. another person in the courtyard screamed out, god punished me and gave me breast cancer because i supported health care reform. the vitriol and venom, these people aren't interests in working together, having a civil discussion, they're interested

in winning. that's not what this is all about, we should all come together. >> we'll keep a look-out for the person that took a picture at your last meeting, that was the shakiest hand. that picture was all over the place. up next, sarah palin and michelle bachmann considered two of the brightest lights in the republican party. what does that tell you where the party stands. these two women are superstars in the tea party movement. are they leaders of the republican party yet is the question or will they bring down a ticket if they get on it like you could argue happened last time? really, brian?

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welcome back to "hardball." was virginia governor bob mcdonnell making a strategic political move when he decided to make april confederate history month? that's a question for the strategist, steve mcmahon and todd, the democratic strategist. >> we knew what you meant. >> you know what, i read the prompter. somebody got a little tired here. steve is the democrat and todd the republican. i don't go with this is a mistake, there are no mistakes in politics. >> there are mistakes in politics. >> when a man sits down and writes a prock cllamation about confederate history month and liberal wouldn't do it and

conservative would that wants to liven up his base, why did he do it. why did he not mention slavery. >> it was a mistake. >> obviously, he should have mentioned it. >> what do you mean by mistake? >> he should have mentioned. >> it what do you men, he for got to mention it? >> i wasn't in the room or in his brain. >> was the mistake he for got slavery existed? that he didn't think it was important? didn't want to offend anybody who had slaves? >> chris, this is part of the problem when politicians make mistakes and say, i made a mistake and people on cable news beat the hell out of them again for a week. >> what does mistake mean? >> he shouldn't have done it. acknowledged he shouldn't have done it. called governor wilder, issued an apology and called the head of the black caucus in the legislature and issued and apology for him. for a politician to say, i made a mistake and i'm going to own it, there ought to be more of that and not less. >> here's the question, when bob

mcdonnell says he's sorry, is he sorry he did it or got caught? >> how could he not get caught? it's a public proclamation. >> isn't this a win-win? i don't think it's mistake. i think it's win-win. if nobody blew a whistle on it, he would have been happy with the right wing. now that he had to apologize, the right wing says, yeah, we know where his heart is. >> i have to bet if you're sitting with governor win-win. i've talked to people around him, they don't feel it's a win-win. they do feel he made a mistake, he owned up for that mistake which too many people don't do. >> explain the thinking about why you want -- why would a -- forget the lingo and particulars. why would a guy get up one day and say we ought to do something to honor confederate month around here. why would somebody do that? >> this is not a republican/democrat thing. >> it's not? >> it's a southern thing. i'm have california. i'm hardly qualified to talk about this. but all of us have traveled all

through the south. whether you're a republican or democrat, there is no question that white southerners have a special feeling about their history that people from the north don't understand, don't relate to. it's not a republican thing, it's not a democratic thing. i'm a californian, i don't pretend to understand it, but i'm also not going to condemn it. >> what did mark warner and tim kaine not do, the two previous governors. >> i don't know. ask them. >> but it's not a democratic thing or republican thing. >> why is there still preclearance for 11 states in the south? there is a cultural aspect to this, no question about t but a good politician and the last two democratic governors of virginia recognize how inflammatory and insulting it is to so many people in virginia and didn't do it for this reason. >> there's a lot of regionalism in the country now. this western thing going on with pail and not bachmann about fishing and hunting, they make very strong regional appeals. is your a party of the south and

the west, and is this going to replace the establishment of your party, people like boehner and mcconnell? are they standing there being replaced by the bachmanns and palins? >> well, based on polling that i've seen and based on election results, crihristie in new jersey, i think there's an appeal to the republican party, a right ward movement across the country, not just the south, midwest, but in the north east and mountain west, also in the south, and so, you know, we'll see what happens on election day. >> so these people are the new stars of your party, these two women? >> there's no question that bachmann and governor palin have quite a bit of grass roots support. but does that make them the leaders of the party? no, i don't think it does. one of the reasons why the party is kind of having some of the troubles that it's having is because we don't have a leader now and this happens to every leader when you don't control the white house. >> i think we've made her here on this show, when we said we

have to investigate the democratic members of congress for anti-americanism, all of a sudden that led that she went up the flag with that one. >> it's things like this that make people a star in the republican party. bob mcdonnell will turn this and make it something that the national media -- the democrats blew it up, he's sorry today, but when he runs for president he's going to say the national media took that out of context and blew it up. the democrats took it out of context and blew it up. you know where my heart is. >> bachmann now defends that charge, that democrats ought to be investigated for anti-americanism and -- >> and congressman grayson of florida when he stood on the floor and said the republican health care plan is to let people die, he apologized for it and then issued a direct mail piece to raise money off of it. so this happens all over the place. >> now you've got bachmann/palin overdrive going across the country like a concert tour. sort of base cliff the republican party is now returning to its -- >> what do they call the -- what do they call it, windshield

wiper wave. learn how to do it in your party. thank you. when we return, which party would abraham lincoln join today? would he still be a republican after all the talk about states' rights and honoring the confederacy? would they like him? you're watching "hardball." it's choosing upsides time for abraham lincoln. gosh, i was a total couch potato; i think i shared a blood supply with the couch. one of the benefits of weight watchers online is that it's not only dealing with the food that i eat but it also deals with the exercise. with the iphone app, you can keep track of points. i can also journal my exercise while i'm out so that i can see what my budget for the day is. i never thought i would look like this. [ female announcer ] join for free today. weight watchers online. finally, losing weight clicks. ♪

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