republicans demonization of democrats right now could stir up an anti-government act of violence. finally, could someone please tell congressman todd taken of missouri, that the soviet government no longer exists. serving on the armed services committee, isn't this something you should know. let's start with the republican party's lunch to the right. chuck todd is nbc news chief white house correspondent. and chris whites "the fix" for the "washington post." chuck, i haven't seen this pattern before in my life. this is fairly new. this sort of purge. let's talk about the news value here. this purge, pollster.com now has rubio, marco rubio, who was seen as a fringe candidate a year ago, now leading the governor of florida by an average of 30 points, look at that crossover, that's in republican primary. so now, charlie crist, there's all kinds of buzz out there that he might go independent. because he can't win this moderate republican in his own primary. look at this race now as it stands. if he goes independent.

32 for crist, the governor, 30 for marco rubio, the leading republican candidate, the man of the right. and kendrick meek, the democratic candidate. chuck, it just seems like the republican party is purging, first with arlen specter. now it's charlie crist and it's bob bennett, and it's john mccain. nobody is eligible to be a republican any more, unless you're a movement conservative at home on the same platform as birthers. you don't have to be a birther, exactly. but you've got to be at home with that far-right crowd. your thoughts? >> well, look, i think any time we have seen a political party recover from a big loss or a series of big losses, you see this. you know, this is in many ways, i would argue, this isn't new. we saw it after '76. we saw a bunch of republicans do this. and it gave republicans a huge surge in senate seats. but you saw a lot of internal churn in the republican party,

the forward wing, ford wing of the party versus the reagan wing. i would push back a little bit, chris and say we have seen it before. and we've seen it, democrats have done this in their time. we look back at '8 6 and '88 and some of that. now that said, what's going on now? look, you can explain all of them individually. but i do think you see some parts of the republican party who see an opportunity here. bob bennett is simply a cheap, easy opportunity for the club for growth in this case, but sort of a conservative constituency group inside the republican party, to go and get a quote-unquote easy scalp in the name of bob bennett. bennett had done a terrible job, he didn't go back home, he didn't visit utah enough. he didn't do sort of his own politics here and he got caught with his pants down. and you sit there, and, yes, it's hard to believe that a guy like bob bennett, not exactly the definition of a liberal republican, would somehow get pushed out by a more

conservative wing of the party. but they're pushing him out because they can. it's easy to do. florida, same thing. and look, crist also had the added issue of being governor at a time when it's not easy being a governor of any state right now. and it's a pretty -- you've got to make some unpopular decisions. >> well what i'm seeing here, chris, is a series of purges. it's not that the party is moving to the right. it's an incumbents like governors, five-term senators like specter, party leaders like john mccain, conservatives like bob bennett, all being pushed out of the party. told to go away, end your political career because you're not a movement conservative. i do think it's a little different than a party moving right or left or coulding, like a hunt for easy pickings. >> chris, let me paint it slightly differently. i think it's more of an

outsider-insider thing at the moment. being congress, a rep or a sen or a gog before your name is not -- i think this is the sort of thing that's going on because people want change. they voted for change. what they believed to be change in 2008. you saw the same dynamic in scott brown's victory. scott brown has said essentially i ran on the same message barack obama did and got elected as a republican in massachusetts because i ran on change. people don't trust politicians. i don't know that it's only the case in the republican party. look in, well, look in pennsylvania. you got an outsider running against arlen spegter and in the colorado senate, you've got andrew romanoff running against michael bennett. i think it's more insider-outsider thing. clearly, there's a purging element of the party on the republican side. i think that's more of about what chuck's talking about. which is the party trying to return to its roots, find where

it stands and build outward. >> here's asking about his running as an independent. which crist still denies. having had his party campaign chairman denying he's switching, he's fudging in his own name. your thoughts? this guy's the governor of the state. if he has to run independent, that tells you about the republican party. >> i can tell you about what we've been able to report inside the political unit. that's this -- he's getting two bits of advice now. which saying look, if you want to be a u.s. senator and you want to do this now, your only viable path is to run as an independent. if you can be patient and you want to try to repair and you want to stay in the republican party and you want to lick your wounds a little bit, get out. finish your term as governor and go run against bill nelson in 2012. so that's basically from what i understand, is the advice that charlie crist is getting right now. you know, and that's why you're hearing this sort of hedge when

chris keeps being asked about this. there is no path to winning the republican nomination without marco rubio imploding. and it seems as if this guy is made of teflon. that they've tried, crist has spent a month beating him up. he got some bad press, rubio did. it's not really sticking. you don't see that much movement here a little bit. so we may go independent. now the down side for crist of going independent, is that there's, you don't have a base if you run as an independent. a republican or a democrat has a base. if he runs as an independent, you can make a case that kendrick meek is the favorite to win this seat. if it ends up being that crist because the democratic base in many ways is much stronger, if you have one moderate republican running against, if you're getting to run against two republicans. >> i think you have a point there. let me -- >> can i just real quickly one thing. another problem for charlie crist, charlie crist, i think in his heart of hearts still thinks

he can be elected as president. running as an independent kiboshes those dreams. >> i disagree with you, chris. if crist got elected, it's the independent senator as the state of florida -- he becomes one of the most powerful senator in the united states senate. and then suddenly, you know, all of this baggage of political opportunism is gone and he becomes the most viable third-party candidate in the country. >> it seems to me he has to answer this question, if he switches, about party identification. sooner or later, sooner rather than later, you have to say who you're going to side with when this comes to voting for leadership. from the first moment he announces as an independent. if elected, i will vote with the republicans. and therefore, there will be two republican candidates for senator, in this general election coming up in november. which does probably give a shot to a very difficult candidate, a long shot by the democrat. because he can just be the

democrat, hold that base, and hope that charlie crist can get a big chunk of republicans, right? >> that's right. what did joe lieberman do? joe lieberman basically made the case that he was going to be with the democrats. and then, the national republican party didn't have a serious candidate in that race. and between mccain and a couple of other people, they sent the message to republicans in connecticut, you know what, it's okay to be for lieberman, we're kind of for lieberman, too, even if it means he's voting for the democrats. so lieberman dropped enough hints that he would, because he had the chairmanship that he could get. the problem that crist has, you're absolutely right. he's got to make the decision. if he says republican, that gives meek, meek has real money. this is a real campaign. this is not the connecticut republican situation. that we saw in 2006. >> by the way, he's african-american, i think democrats have to be very careful about looking like they might not be giving full support to a democratic candidate, even in a race where they might not be offended by a charlie crist

victory. thank you so much, chuck todd. and chris celizza. coming up, are republicans fighting reform on wall street by pretending to be for it. is this frank luntz at his worst? first in one minute, unemployment rates continue to fall in many u.s. states right now. we'll have good news right now for everybody, you're watching "hardball" on msnbc.

welcome back. another stand-up is looming between democrats and republicans, this time other financial regulatory reform or wall street reform. senate majority leader harry reid wants to bring a bank bill to the floor late next week. but now minority leader mitch mcconnell said he's got republicans to block the evident. he's got a letter from them. the letter reads in part this bill allows for endless taxpayer bailouts, it was written by frank luntz, a pr guy. let me go to chris dodd the chairman of the committee. i want to get to this right now. we've got a lot of republicans possibly joining us. has this become a dishonest discussion with the republicans being led not by experts on wall street, just by people, a like frank luntz, whose job it is to

come up with dishonest language? >> i don't want to brand them all this way, chris. i've dealt with a number of people who i think honestly are looking do get a good bill. we may disagree with parts of it. but i believe their motivations are good. unfortunately the minority leader i don't think is paying much attention to them. and i put this memo in the senate record the other day and compared the language between the minority leader's speech and frank luntz's memo. the memo was written long before i wrote a bill. he was telling them how to defeat the bill even before there was a bill. >> he's a spin meister, he used to be considered somewhat nonpartisan. now he's working for one party, he's brilliant at it he comes up with phrases like the endless taxpayer bailout. is there a smidgen of truth to the fact that your bill you're pushing, has more money for wall street. will any wall street baron get a nickel out of this and still

keep his job? that's a key question i would like answered. can you keep your job and get more government money? >> no. in fact the last thing you're going to see in this bill, which has been a common determination is the implicit guarantee that if you're a financial firm and you get in trouble, the taxpayers are going to bail you out. no white horses riding in for you. the white horse is dead. the creditors suffer. if you fail, you fail. you're over with, you're done, you're in bankruptcy. you're in receivership. nothing could be clearer in the bill. a good republican like sheila bare who heads the fdic appointed bob dole's legal counsel, been at the fdic, a bush appointee. she says it better than everybody. this bill ends too big to fail. nothing could be clearer and my republican friends know that. >> did it take catastrophe or near-catastrophe to get this through the heads of yourself and the other democrats, so that you at least, your party, could at least get it right? it looks like one party's got it

right. some members of the other party may be getting it right. you're still hoping to get five or ten republicans to join you? >> the door is still open, chris. i've worked for a year at this my republicans on the committee know that i've reached out, i have signed republicans to work with democrats. on major parts of this bill dealing with the exotic instruments, the consumer issues, as well as the issue of too big to fail in resolution. all of this has been very well worked on. i introduced a bill in november. we changed it. we worked at it. so 24 notion, this is partisan bill, that still allows too big to fail, it's anything but a partisan bill. and it does anything, it doth even do anything in effect, that would allow for a too big to fail process to move forward. and i'm still hopeful over the next few days, i think there are a number of republicans, frankly are tire of this just say no. they realize this bill is necessary. you can't go back to the american people and tell them, we didn't do anything. you read about goldman sachs today, you read about the billions of dollars that have been made by firms that got bailed out by american taxpayers and we're going to leave the

status quo in place? i don't believe a number of republicans want to be a part of that. >> what do you think of, you've had a take, you don't have to take a nickel, but you've taken a lot of money from wall street to keep in office, and i've looked at your financial records, you're one of the leading recipients of money from wall street. you deal with these guys, you sit down with them. is there a fundamental problem of the banking committee, who's ever running it, whoever succeeds you there, will always be taking money from the industry you're trying to regulate. you're leaving office now. is that a fundamental problem of our political system. that's true of any committee. >> well banking especially. it's all that money, all that money protecting all that money. and giving it to you and other politicians. isn't that a fundamental problem? >> well, listen, i've been an advocate of public financing of federal elections since i've been in congress. believe me, would i like to change the system, chris? absolutely. is it going to change between now and some near-term date? i doubt it. unless you have self-funders,

people write their own checks to run your campaigns. the question is, do you change your mind? to accommodate the industry to receive contributions from them or not. frankly, as you know in my case, i've never accommodated the interests of the industry. i'm interested in what they have to is a. there's some very good people who work in the financial services sector. and there's others who frankly are corrupt in my view and the system is corrupt. the system is broken. that's why we wrote a check for $700 billion, to bail out these firms. because you had entities out there luring people into mortgages they couldn't afford. consumers weren't being protected. fees and interest rates were being charged exorbitantly. all of that needs to be fixed. this bill does, a lion's share of this that i've just mentioned. >> this goldman bill looks like you lure people into investments, you know they're going to fail. they're stinking offers you know that, you can hedge it and make money on the other end. it seems to me that's a classic. >> well --

>> in corruption, isn't it? i guess you can't say that yet. but isn't this, it's a systemic problem here. on wall street, is the money being stolen from the people before they get the regular investor, are we all chumps to invest in the stock market? >> well, you shouldn't be. and obviously what they credited with the securities and exchange commission for the action they've taken today. obviously this is a legal matter, it has to be carried out to the end. but frankly, a lot of us know, you don't have to be a legal eagle or an expert, to know there are people making billions of dollars because they were luring people. look at what they did with mortgages. forget about the stock market. when you read the website of brokers, the first rule for a broker was, convince that borrower you're their financial adviser. nothing could be further from the truth. you were getting paid quickly. the banks were selling your mortgage. and many of them knew the mortgages weren't worth anything. and some poor unsuspecting investor was purchasing them. and of course, the system collapsed. all of that was done with the full knowledge of what was occurring out there. you don't have to go to the stock market to find that. you could find that in your

local broker. >> let me ask you about republican support for this. because i follow politics more than finance. and i'm looking at corker, chambliss, scott brown, bennett, bond, snowe, collins, voinovich, gregg. it looks to me like your best bets to join you besides the two senators from maine, are people leaving politics. why is that? do you you have to be on your way out to do the right thing? i'm being serious here. i'm looking, voinovich, he's thinking of becoming a -- judd d gregg. you know, these guys look like kit bond, at least three of these guys are leaving. is that why they want to do the right thing? they want to look good on the way out the door? >> no, judd gregg and i worked on issues over tile. and kit bond and i wrote the family medical leave together. george voinovich. these are decent good people. and there are other people as well. richard shelby and i worked together, we met the other night to work on this some more.

the door is open to get a compromise on the bill, if we can. i'm not interested in just scoring points, i'm interested in writing a good bill. this is not about washington. it's about the $8.5 million who have lost their jobs and seven million who have lost their homes. the millions who watched their retirement accounts evaporate overnight because of the tricks that went on in the financial sector. this is about a country that came to the brink of financial collapse and whether or not we're going to take the steps to correct the system so it doesn't happen again. >> going back to complete the circle, the republican leadership, mitch mcconnell keeps reciting this mantra. endless taxpayer bailouts. just to get you on the record, mr. chairman, that's a dishonest statement, right? >> completely. and he knows it. he and i have talked about it, it's a complete falsehood, he knows that. we've worked at this so tirelessly, to suggest that is the case. and the further suggestion i've written a spart san bill.

i've conducted anything but a partisan committee in trying to arrive at this product. >> your successor on the democratic ticket in connecticut, richard blumenthal, is he running a strong-enough campaign? there's been concern that he's not doing the work 6 a real candidate because he's never had a race before. do you think he's got the stuff to run a really tough campaign and hold that seat for your party? >> no question in my mind about it at all. he's a strong candidate, he's been on the ballot any number of times, he's been a great attorney general. and in my view, he'll be the next united states senator from connecticut filling my seat. >> thank you very much, senator chris dodd, chairman of the banking committee. up next the late-night shows are having fun with the fight between nasa and president obama in the side show today. v8 juice gives you 3 of your 5 daily servings. it's a tasty, nutritious way to make this number go up... and help this one go down. v8. what's your number?

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back to "hardball" now for

the side show. first stephen colbert brings the kerfuffle over president obama's cancellation of the space shuttle to its logical conclusion. >> he's catching major heat over cutting funding for nasa. i just wish there was some way to tie health care to nasa. >> to tie health care to nasa -- >> yes? >> the health care bill is bad for america. and now you have another theme here, you know, is what the president doing here bad for america in terms of space exploration? >> what's health care got to do with the space program? two words, barack obama, his critics just like hitting his agenda as bad for america. why? you bother to ask because it's obama's. in related news, when it comes to the space race, it turns out old battles die hard. republican congressman todd aiken put out a statement.

invoking the danger of catch this, the soviet union. congressman aiken wrote in his press release, the cancellation of the space shuttle's replacement will effectively leave the united states reliant upon the soviet union to grant us access to low-earth orbit. as a member of the armed services committee i'm very concerned with that possibility. well that press release was later revised to say russian federation in place of soviet union. you got to credit "huffington post" for that catch. i guess congressman aiken and his staff are still operating in a soviet mentality. somebody on the armed services committee ought to know. a lesson to follow the money, we charged down the aide in vetting the vice presidential picks. mitt romney, sarah palin. and it turns out he's only donated to one of those vp

picks, one of their political action committees. tim polenti's, the one guy who has got them scared at the white house. back in 2006, then-democratic congressional campaign chairman, rahm emanual sparred with national committee chair, howard dean, who believed that investing dnc money across the board, in all 50 states, instead of just focusing in hot races. rahm is now chief of staff in the white house and howard dean is out of leadership. in 2010, how much will the dnc contribute to the mid-term congressional elections? $50 million, a number they're calling unprecedented. the dnc places its bets on 2010 to the tune of $50 million. tonight's big number. up next, if you ask how president obama is doing, the answer you get depends on whom you ask. and we'll ask pennsylvania governor ed rendell. [ crowd cheering ]

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stocks tumbling today as securities fraud charmgs against goldman sachs had a ripple effect across the banking settingor. the dow jones industrial average falling almost 126 points, but bouncing back from earlier lows of around 170 points. the s&p 500 down 19 points, the nasdaq finishing 34 points in the red. goldman sachs was the big story of the day on wall street. shares falling more than 12.5% after the s.e.c. accused goldman of failing to disclose conflicts of interest in subprime mortgage sales. investors ultimately lost more than $1 billion. the news triggered a moderate selloff across the sector. bank of america, morgan stanley, jp morgan and citigroup finishing 4% lower on the day. google shares plunging 7% today as investors worried about surging payments to other sites that direct search traffic back

to google. that's it from cnbc, first in business worldwide. now back to "hardball." welcome back to "hardball." president obama got his health care bill signed into law. by why is he still having trouble getting most of the country to like what he's done? is there a disconnect between what's happening in washington in this city and what's happening across the country? ed rendell is the governor of pennsylvania and the former general chairman of the democratic national committee. your party chairman pennsylvania, tj rooney said democrats need to put away the rubber sheets and sleep in dry beds. i don't know if you can improve on that metaphor, governor. what's your view of the democrats wetting their bed in worry these days? >> well i think there's two reasons that you see that phenomenon. that the president is hailed in washington for being a strong leader and certainly in the last three or four weeks he's been

every bit of that and then some. but it hasn't seemed to be reflected in polls across the nation and in pennsylvania as well. i think there are two reasons. one, because the republicans clearly won the spin war on stimulus at the very beginning. they polluted the american people's minds about a bill that's been tremendously beneficial. you cited a statistic earlier that pennsylvania is one of three states that had significant job gains, almost 20,000 new jobs created in the last six weeks? well, stimulus has been responsible for 15,200 of the jobs in this first quarter. so we're not getting et credit for what was a very good bill and has had a very good effect in many different ways, because we lost the spin war. on health care over the summer last year, we got the living daylights kicked out of us. so number one, the republicans have done a good job spinning and they've been really dishonest about it and hypocritical about it all the republicans voted against the stimulus, show up at every

highway ground-breaking or every ribbon-cutting at rebuilt bridges. the republicans have done a good job and we've done a poor job, all of us democrats, in explaining to the american people what health care is going to do. what the stimulus has done and so many of the good things the president has done. so i dpree with tj, let's stop cowering behind the shower curtain, let's be proud of what we've accomplished. i think you'll see between now and november, as for example health care sets in and in pennsylvania, 140,000 sick people who don't have health care will be covered by high-risk pools because of the health care reform bill. 400,000 seniors because of the health care reform bill will get a $250 check this year to help them with the prescription doughnut hole. 150,000 pennsylvania businesses, 25 employees or less that employ 650,000 people, will get a 35% tax credit this year.

when that news sinks in, i think you're going to see a change. >> well let me go to something here. i know you don't want to be self-serving and i'm not being sarcastic here. but you and i grew up in a country where there were surrogates for a president, where you had five or ten members of the cabinet, men and women of different backgrounds out there selling for him. i think of the way that john connolly could go out for dick nixon. this cabinet is filled with nonpolitical people, gates, senator clinton is out of politics right now, the secretary of state. i understand that. but they've got geithner who is not a politician. there's nobody out there but this president selling. he just seems so alone. we're sitting here tonight talking about how is he doing. why aren't we saying how the government's doing. all of these guides -- are you willing to critique this crowd? is anybody out there beating the drum the way you were the last five minutes? i haven't heard them. i'm not asking you to brag about yourself, but i'm not hearing anybody talking like you're talking. >> there's something to what you say, chris. but i think it's incumbent not just on the cabinet, but on

democratic governors or democratic mayors, democratic senators. too many people are running from what has been an enormously successful administration and we're letting the republicans off the hook. look, i believe in nonpartisanship. i think we should reach out and we've done that to a degree in pennsylvania. but, but, how do we let these guys get away with bloody murder? all we heard during the health care debate was, you can't do it because the public opinion polls say it's unpopular. well as i recall, the surge, the surge of troops to iraq was widely unpopular among the american people. and every republican voted for it. it worked out pretty well, didn't it? so they're hypocrits, and they've been hypocrits all along and it's incumbent upon all of us to fight back. >> let's hear the president, here he is the other night in florida, in miami at a fundraiser, let's listen to his pitch. >> before we can start healing, we had to stop the bleeding. we need to make sure that an

economic disaster did not become a full-blown depression. and some of those short-term steps designed to stabilize the economy, they weren't popular. the recovery act, even though we gave tax cuts to everybody, somehow got confused with the bank bailout. and then there was the auto thing and everybody -- said, gosh, what's obama doing? he's, he's not listening to the polls. this is unpopular. >> well that's the question, i guess i got to ask you about pennsylvania politics. i only got a minute. arlen over sestak. arlen over toomey, is that your bet? >> yes, i wish joe would pull out and save his money for another race. and i think arlen's gained on toomey lately. and when the people of pennsylvania find out that congressman former congressman toomey has worked for wall street interests, as the

president of the club for growth, think you'll see a radical turn-around. >> is toomey a radical, too radical for pennsylvania? is he out there with santorum? >> he's not a raed cal. but he's a dyed in the wool conservative and he worked for the club for growth, who has a philosophy that with mean our roads and highways and bridge was crumble because we're not going to invest in the future of this country. and people have to understand that. >> i like the other day, when he said we should step aside and let the auto industry crash. i thought it was a great line. thank you very much governor ed rendell, stop losing weight we have your bobblehead here. we've got to show you. up next, find out what bill clinton has to say about congressman michelle bachman calling the obama administration a gangster government. she's unbelievable. but first, guess who is considering a 2012 white house run, i'm curious. national car rental knows i'm picky.

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my favorite, don't retreat, reload. and then is not a call for

violence. >> i think they don't realize that your iq scores are way above average. we're on to them. we're on to this gangster government. >> wow, welcome back to "hardball." that was sarah palin first of all at the southern republican leadership conference. and then michelle bachman at yesterday's big tea party rally here. in today's "new york times," president clinton took issue with bachman's terms. they are not gangsters, they were elected. they were not doing anything they were not elected to do. and speaking at the 15th anniversary of the oklahoma city bombing, president clinton compared the environment right now to then. pretty scary stuff. ron reagan is an author and political commentator and earl lewis is a radio talk show host. i want to start with ron.

president clinton i think said something here very important. the atmospherics right now it seems to me are toxic, they're hateful. you hear similar language all the way over to the far right, all the way over to the center right where it's the tea people or the tea bag people or the militia people or just conservative politicians, they're all using the language of delegitimatization, this is an unamerican administration. it all rhymes with, he shouldn't be there. >> well it's easy to ridicule these people and god knows they deserve ridicule, they're fools most of them. talking about gangster government or totalitarianism. this is a totalitarian government now. maybe michelle bachman should take a trip to the soviet union with todd aiken. >> explain your joke, there's no more soviet union. >> but as bill clinton pointed

out, there's something very dangerous going on here. you've got 330 million people in the country and some of them are dilutional. and when you use words like gangster or totalitarianism, or let's take them out, that's another phraseology of michelle bachman, not let's vote them out, let's take them out. you've giving people fodder to load the ak-47's they bring to rallies. >> let's go to earl, how about sarah palin's crossharris that thee sets up over the democrat ig incumbent she wants to beat in congress and says reload. what is this -- ballistic language everybody is using? this ammo, this, you know, what is the story here? >> i'll tell you, while it's coded, it's not very well coded. but it's a coded appeal to second amendment enthusiasts, shall we call them. but when it mixes with this other toxic talk, it brings you to this very dangerous place. where people think that, not just the first amendment, free

speech, freedom of assembly, petitioning the government, debate, free and open debate on forums like this one. that's not the way to change politics. but something involving the second amendment. something involving firearms and militias. >> always. >> has to be brought to bear. >> errol, it's always there. at every speech, sarah palin mentions gun rights. at every speech, bachman does, rush, they love the word "gun" they love the words freedoms being denied to us. they're at stake here. you're in jeopardy, you need your gun to protect your freedom from your government. do you have to spell it out? it seems like they're doing that. >> psychologically, what they're appealing to is people's insecurity, clearly. because the gun is simply a symbol, right? it surprises a lot of these conservatives that some of us progressives, some of us liberals actually aren't afraid of guns. some of us grew up with guns in the house as i did. my dad was a new york city cop. some of us even know how to fire weapons. you know, some of us know how to fire

weapons. they're using it for psychological impact. >> president clinton on the current mood of the country. let's listen to the former president bill clinton. >> before the bombing occurred there was a sort of fever in america in the early 1990s. first it was a time like now of dramatic upheaval. a lot of old arrangements had changed. more and more people had a very difficult time living with confidence and optimism in the face of change. it is true that we see some of that today. >> well, ron, that's today. that's the former president. and it's one area where i think people really like clinton across the board, was his handling of oklahoma city, whatever you think of his politics or whatever else he was very strong in bringing this country together at a time when some people, like, you know, mcveigh, wanted to kill people. >> well, indeed.

and, you know, the fear is and errol spoke to it, we're going to see thing like that again. we've already seen somebody flying their plane into an irs building. my own senator, one of them in washington state, patty murray, a man was arrested the other day for threatening to kill her because she voted on health care legislation in a way he didn't appreciate. so apparently if you have an election and legislation is propose the that was talked about during that election and your side can't carry the day you start shooting people apparently. it really is, it's disturbing. >> well, i'm going to go back to errol on this. i agree with the resonance of the languaglanguage. people who -- i'm not going to draw the line at birthers anymore. any politician that will stand on a flat form with a birther and treat them like a companion in arms, someone they agree with politically who doesn't believe this president is one of us, i want to ask them, show me your

newspaper announcement when you were born. i was a regular guy when i was born. i didn't have something in the newspaper saying i was born. for some reason the president of the united states had enough prominence on the island of hawaii they put an announcement in the paper. what more evidence do you need? an announcement at the time that he was born. these people running -- if you will stand on -- j.d. hayworth plays ball with them, dick armey plays ball with them. these guys are playing ball with the fringe. i think that ought to be where a politician ought to be called to account. if you're think they're okay, you're not okay. your thought, errol? >> i agree. listen, we've had demagogues in politics for over who millenia a this point. we know them when we see them. we know why they have to be called out and know why they have to be corralled and put off to the margins where they belong. it's not going to be a pretty process but that's what has to happen. >> on the issue of drawing the line against the birthers, i think somebody not on msnbc but

on fox today drew a line against a real flake he called her. i think it was glenn beck. there are limits even with him. he wouldn't go along with a truther. he thought anybody's a truther thought george bush had some sort of pump and he pumped and blew up the trade center on command is a nut because they believe that and obviously believing it because they want to be a nut. your thoughts? >> there are plenty of nuts, of course, on the other side here. you're right about politicians who show up at rallies and speak -- think about the language we're talking about today. they're not speaking to the reasonable tea partyers. they're not saying, you know, i didn't like that bank bailout a lot either. no. they're questioning the birth of the president of the united states and using violence-tinged language, speaking to the lowest common denominator at tea party rallies deliberately doing it over and over again. that's just irresponsible. >> you know, errol, we've had violence in this country affecting ron's family, our country.

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let me finish tonight with this stollen-like jaurndway in the republican party. the first came in pennsylvania where arlen specter was by his

telling driven from the republican party by the challenge from the club for growth and its candidate patrick toomey. specter said there's no more room for him in the party anymore. then came the assault on john mccain and conservative republican, mccain is facing a challenge on the right from j.d. hay wart. someone was calling mccain, catch this, a progressive. mccain needed to bring sarah palin into the state to ward off the challenge. down in florida today governor charlie crist is faced with humiliation in the republican primary for the senate. challenged by marco rubio, he's been hit for accepting federal relief efforts. he may have to run as an indent in the election to have a chance of victory. reached absurd levels with the challenge to bob bennett in utah, real conservative by any standard definition, ben fighting for his political life. this is all quite bizarre. i can remember when moderates were not only at home in the

republican party, they were viewed as the party's establishment. when barry goldwater said in accepting the party's 1964 presidential nomination, that quote, extremism in the defense of liberty is no vice. many in the party were appall and refused to join his campaign. today goldwater could face a challenge for being too liberal. positions on familiar social issues could be getting his conservative credentials challenges. if conservatives can be thrown under the bus the republicans may be purging themselves out of national contention. i remember the old groucho marks line about his refusal to accept any club that would accept him as a member. if it keeps purging itself like it is now and moving membership standards further and further to the right the republicans might find themselves shrinking to a party the great majority of americans don't want to join. that's "hardball" for now. thanks for being with us. right now, it's time for "the ed show" with ed schultz.

good evening, american, and welcome to "the ed show" tonight from new york. these stories have got "my hot buttons" going tonight. now, there's trouble in the foxhole. bill o'reilly just won't quit telling the lies. it was sean hannity, he gets yanked from a tea party protest. what's that all about? apparently ginning up the angry right wing mobs doesn't fit the definition of fair and balanced. the bush administration tried to hide the fact they were using torture. we have the smoking gun now. e-mails show bush's cia director signed off on destroying videotapes that showed waterboarding. lizz winstead will be here tonight to give us her take on the tax day "psycho talk" that took place and all the other vents of the week. that's coming up. this is the story that's got me "fired up" tonight. it's not the most pressing story in the world. i'm compelled to do this because a lie is a lie. america's most watched cable

news talent is on this nonstop crusade to cover his backside. now, for the second time this week, bill o'reilly is trying to basically worm his way out of a lie that he told on tuesday night. just so we're all crystal clear on this, here is what he said to oklahoma republican senator tom coburn on tuesday. >> you don't know anybody on fox news because there hasn't been anyone that said people go to jail if they don't buy mandatory insurance. it doesn't happen here and we researched to find out if anybody on fox news had ever said you're going to jail if you don't buy health insurance. nobody's ever said it. >> uh, the key word is research, isn't it? media matter called o'reilly's bluff with stinging video evidence showing that he was flat-out dead wrong. now, he tried to pin the blame on coburn on wednesday. >> senator from oklahoma, people missed it last night, you know,