in order to get on the arizona ballot. so president obama, if he runs for re-election, will have to show one, a birth certificate for his re-election campaign out in arizona. is this constitutional? that's one the questions. and finally an odd one from nevada, a republican candidate for the senate's proposal to replace health care payments with a barter system, as in you know you bring your doctor a chicken or a sack of potatoes to pay for a treatment. i guess that's what they mean by repeal and replace. let's start with the big news out of florida. there could be a big problem for republicans down there. beth reinhart is a political reporter for "the miami herald." and jay weaver is "the herald's" investigative reporter. i want to start with the fact. i want to be joe friday, so let's start with jay. what is the hard news about the irs investigation and the justice investigation of marc rubio? what is there? >> well, pure and simple, the republican party of florida for

years has issued credit cards to its senior officials and to its senior politicians. and, of course, they're supposed to use these american express credit cards for political purposes only. it's a nonprofit organization. they collect millions from fat cat donors and they're supposed to use it to advance the party agenda and to advance candidates. well, as it turns out, records obtained by "the miami herald" have shown that they were using a lot of these credit cards for personal good times. you know chic hotels, jet travel, five-star restaurants. so the irs has basically been snooping around and they have opened cases against some of these senior officials including a former house speaker out of north florida, but they're also opening an inquiry into marco rub rubio, the former house speaker and now u.s. senate candidate in the republican column against governor charlie crist.

and they basically want to know whether or not he used or personally benefited from this credit card usage? and he's not the only one in the cross hairs. >> okay. >> there are others, too. and that's where it stands. we're talking about millions of dollars here. >> well, let me go right down to beth, in terms of the impact statement here. politically, does this in any way, shake rubio's position as the clear front-runner in that primary fight? >> i think it shakes a little bit, but to his credit, he's really established himself. he's so far ahead of the governor right now. and the governor's credibility with voters is really strained at this point. they don't necessarily trust him the way they used to and so when he attacks rubio on his credit card spending, these voters that i've talked to don't look at it the same way. >> are they going to blame -- will the conservative voters on the side of the republican party, are they going to blame

him for having dropped the dime on rubio? beth? >> oh absolutely. they -- they, you know, they -- they try to diminish the stories that we've written by saying, you know, they're all leaked by crist. i saw one blogger said something about you know the credit card statements taken by crist without his permission, which you know, i think is pretty wild speculation. >> let me go over -- let me go over to jay on this whole question now. you and i had -- reporters -- i've been a reporters for years. back when i had expense accounts as a print guy, they always told us, just keep it clean. the pros who check the cards, will know what is clean. don't worry about the little details, just be clean about it. when you looked through these did you get a smell factor, wait a minute, there's something here. this guy's not using his card right. rubio? >> well, sure, in rubio's case, to be fair, it appears that he wasn't quite as big of a spender as, say, the party chairman of the executive director. >> jim greer. >> and some these other politicians. >> yes, jim greer is the party

chairman who's -- who's under scrutiny. and, you know, there were others that spent a lot more money than rubio. >> okay, let me get to the quick here. when i was looking -- our producers were all going through it, we're looking at one that was particularly weird. if you go to somebody's event and your card gets side swiped or something and the guy who parked the car, this is the one that jumped out at us. do you think that was over the top for rubio or is that a standard kind of expense? if you go to an event, and your car gets side swiped when the guy parks your car, you shouldn't have to pay for that out your personal life. what do you think of that expense, as a reporter? >> well, let me use your example. look, i mean, i wouldn't have build it to "the miami herald." "the miami herald" issues credit cards at least in the olden days. their expenses that are business related are put on the credit card. >> right. >> so obviously if that had happened to my car in front a valet damaged i wouldn't have built it to the republican party or "the miami herald" in this instance, this hypothetical instance. i obviously would have billed it on my own credit card.

it's a personal expense. >> you think that might be -- you think it reaches the level of -- there's an irs investigation, there's also a justice investigation, a criminal investigation going on down there, is it fair, just for tonight's broadcast, to say that marco rubio is not under criminal investigation? as far as we know. >> i think it's fair to say it's not -- i think it's fair to say he's not under criminal investigation but i think what is fair to say is that they're looking to see whether the numbers are bigger than just that minivan, you know, accident that occurred in front of the valet. i think it's a situation where they have to find a lot of examples of that to show he was not reporting income that he should have or that he was falsely -- falsely putting information on his income tax returns that he shouldn't have. and he will have to account for that. if it's in the hundreds of thousands of dollars it might be an issue. if it's in the tens of thousands of dollars and he can explain it may be just more of a civil

matter. >> what strikes me, beth, the political thing. that's what we cover here. we're not investigative reporters. we do enjoy their work, however. let me ask you, beth, about this question. this is the first time nationally that one the tea party, well -- pinup boys or pinup girls, whatever, has gotten this scrutiny by the press. they're now in the heat of the kitchen as harry truman would say. if you don't like the heat day out of the kitchen. finally, it's not rand paul, not one of the others. it's this guy. what about the impact? are they ready to take the heat? it looks like he knows what he's door, my firsthand look at the guy. look at what he put out. he put out a statement whacking other guy. all the negative publicity regarding the way that charlie crist handpicked chairman spent money in the party. he's going after him. and the best way to deal with that as far as my spending is concerned, you know, he keeps going here. it was legitimate political purposes i spent the money. i paid for them directly to american express. i've not been contacted. i don't know anything about any potential inquiries but i welcome the chance to set record straight once and for all.

so he's dealing with this frontally but all the time whacking the other sigh, jim greer, who is charlie crist's guy. can he push in guilt over to crist, not only does crist get hit for dropping the dime on him but it looks like he's tainting himself in the act. >> well, you know, the -- marco rubio's credit card statements, you know we obtained them back in february and we've been writing about his spending through the credit card and also through some political committees he set up. you know, for several months. and the governor, of course, seized on that immediately and was running attack ads on television. they didn't appear to work. they -- you know he remained as far behind in the polls, if not got a little farther behind. and the governor took down the television ads. so as i was saying before you know the timing is not in the governor's favor, in that he -- his credibility is strained. and rubio has this reservoir of goodwill with, as you say, the tea party crowd. >> okay. well, thank you very much. we'll be watching this whether

he changes parties and goes independent or not. thank you for the investigative work and political work on this. coming up, president obama says it is time to get tough on wall street be, but how tough is this guy going to get? is he going to be teddy roosevelt or what? but first who is winning the money race right now for november, democrats or republicans? the answer to that coming up during the commercial in just one minute. merica... there's a home by the sea powered by the wind on the plains. there's a hospital where technology has a healing touch. there's a factory giving old industries new life. and there's a train that got a whole city moving again. somewhere in america, the toughest questions are answered every day. because somewhere in america, more than sixty thousand people spend every day answering them. siemens. answers.

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welcome back to "hardball." president obama's gearing up today to press his case for wall street cleanup. tomorrow he's going up to new

york, and today about 1:30 he told cnbc's chief washington correspondent, john harwood that wall street's wild gambles have to come to an end. john harwood joins us now, along with savannah guthrie, who is a white house correspondent for nbc. john, you asked the president if wall street has done enough to police itself in the wake of the crash. let's listen. you give me your sense of it afterwards. here's the president. >> when you spoke in new york a few months ago to a lot of those wall street executives, you urged them -- even in the absence of a law -- to take to heart the need to change the way they do business. >> right. >> have they done that? >> not as much as i would like. i mean, look, i think that you don't want to paint with too broad a brush. each financial institution is different. i do think that there is a sense of now that the crisis is over, let's go back to business as usual. >> john, do you have a sense that he's more reflective, a little more nuanced in talking to you than he's been in some these more barn-burning

statements that he's made on the air? >> reporter: i do, chris, and i think that's because he senses that a deal is beginning to come together between democrats and republicans. i talked to a top staffer on the banking committee this afternoon who said we're close to make a deal with the republicans, and i think the president dialed back the rhetoric a little bit. you didn't hear all of the stuff about, you know, fat cats and obscene bonuses and all of that sort of stuff. he was trying to present a rather cool and tempered demeanor i think. >> here's what the president said when you told him doesn't think wall street reform doesn't work as well for them. i love that. let's listen. >> that's not surprising. they've made out very well under a regime in which, when things were going well, they were making huge profits. and when things didn't go well and everything crashed, taxpayers were left footing the bill. i -- and i think the vast majority of americans think it is unacceptable to have a situation in which tails you in

and, heads i lose. and taxpayers have been put in the position where they had to make a choice a couple of years ago, either we let the entire economy crash because of irresponsibility on wall street or alternatively, we end up having to pony up money. >> speaking of ponying up money, savannah, as everybody who covers washington, you especially know that both parties feed at the trough of wall street when it comes to raising campaign money. is this president tiptoeing now, not just against some republicans aboard, but he knows by name a lot of people on wall street and he doesn't want them giving him a hard time when he comes back for money in the next campaign. >> oh, i don't know about that because i think it's where the rubber hits the road, right? he's still going forward with his financial regulatory reform that a lot of bankers don't like. he said to john harwood in that interview i thing he dodged the question of what he would give back or whether he was embarrassed about receiving that money from wall street. but what senior aides say here to that argument, or to that

suggestion is, look, the classic situation is, you get money from some corporate interest and then you go and do their bidding in government and here's an example of him doing precisely the opposite. but i thought the tone in john harwood's interview was notable and i think that we'll see something along those lines tomorrow when he makes this speech at cooper union in the shadow of wall street. it's not going to be one of these barn burners. he's not going to put the screws to wall street. he's going to say, can't we all get along in one form or another, saying it's in your interest to get behind reform. don't fight us. join us. >> chris -- >> go ahead, john. >> reporter: you may remember a famous quote where some politician said if you can't take their money and date their women -- i'm editing the quote. >> you are. >> reporter: you aren't worth a darn of a -- >> yeah, that's a california phrase and i love it well. the question is, is he tough enough to keep asking for the money? and that's a good question. savannah, he will not stop asking for money, is he? >> oh, i don't know about that. i think that the dnc will continue with its lavish fund-raising. ip don't think anything in this

proposal that would put an end to that so i wouldn't expect that to go away any time soon, no. both parties feed at that trough as you know. >> i know that they do. take a look at what the president will say. here's what the president told you that there's no connection between his push for financial reform and the timing of the s.e.c.'s -- no, this is responding to the charge from the republicans' side in the hill especially that he sort of went into cahoots with the s.e.c. and said let's score some political points in going after goldman sachs. let's listen to his response. >> i gave a speech about financial regulatory reform in 2007 before our current crisis, in 2008 before we fully knew what this crisis was going to be. we released financial reform as a package over a year ago. and so we're not johnny come latelies to this thing. we've been pushing this hard throughout and the s.e.c. is an entirely independent agency that we have no day-to-day control over. and they never discussed with us anything with respect to the

charge that will be brought. so this notion that somehow there would be any attempt to interfere in an independent agency is completely false. >> okay, john harwood, help me out here. why would it look bad for any politician to say let's get tough with these bad guys to any regulatory agency? i guess i don't sew see where there's a downside to saying, let's all be dick tracys here? >> reporter: i think you have a point, chris. i think the question is was there any interference? and the president was very strong in saying, absolutely there was not. >> i see. >> reporter: and you know he's pushing back against this mistrust in the country, and one of the things that people might point to, we'll see how the s.e.c.'s case turns out but greg craig, the former white house counsel has gone to now represent goldman and, again, if you're of a mind, as a lot of people are on the right, the left, to distrust the bonus of the government you may say, wait a minute, maybe that case was set up. >> yeah, let me ask savannah about the politics. it seems like during health care

we all know this that it was kind a murky situation in terms of the public reaction. it was, at best, a 50/50 proposition in terms of an immediate crowd appeal. it seems like this time the president is dancing on a floor that people want to see him on, which going after the wealthy people that may have misused their power on wall street. does he have a little lighter step right now, is he a happier guy going up to wall street than he was for fighting for health care? >> reporter: yeah, i think that they've recognized the populist feeling that's going on in the country right now is with them, anti-wall street. so they're also happy because they have a good economic story to tell. unemployment, there's not a lot of good news there. this is something affirmative they can do. they can say, look, we're cracking down on the banks, we're tighting up some of the worst practices. we're shutting down the casino. so the president may use conciliatory language but bottom line, they're saying, wall street, the party is over. we really want to tighten up this regulation and they need it because it's a counter-narrative to something that's come up over the last year. a lot of people started to

conflate the recovery act, stimulus act, the $70 billion act with the bailouts of wall street. so in a lot of ways the president was getting lumped with that kind of mr. bailout narrative. so this is a way for him to say, i'm fighting back against wall street. i'm trying to crackdown on them. and frankly, that's why democrats were not freaking out when there were 41 republican senators signing on a letter in opposition last week. they felt like at the end of the day, republicans are going to get cold feet, a few will peel off and we're going to get our bill. >> reporter: chris, you wouldn't dream up a fight more than the white house would want this fight right now. >> well, is the president going to -- you're telling me, though, he's going to go up there more carefully than i might have thought of two days ago. >> reporter: well i think the level of the rhetoric may vary according to how much resistance he's getting from the other side. when he gave that radio address over the weekend and really whacked mitch mcconnell and the republicans and the special interest lobbyists, that's when it looked like they were standing up and saying, solid

wall of opposition. now you see, mitch mcconnell saying, well, we're getting more serious about this now. and richard shelby says we're 85% close to a deal. and the democrats are also saying we're close. in that environment, i think the president is more confident and doesn't feel like he needs to hit them quite as hard. >> would he rather have about a handful of republicans with him and be a real teddy roosevelt or have 15, 20 with him and look like he's a little softer? john, your assessment? what do you think they'd like to see more, 75 votes or maybe 63 and make it a little tougher? >> reporter: i think it depends on what bill the larger group would sign on to. he knows he's got the whip hand in this debate right now. he's got the strongest position. so he can hold tough on some the controversial elements and they'll come along. if he gonl got five for a tough bill i think we would take that, but if the whole rest of the crew wants to sign on board and have a consensus bill, i think

he'll say, i made them take it. what republicans are going to say, by the the way, chris. we stood up against bailouts. we protected the taxpayer from that. >> thank you very much, john harwood. thank you, savannah guthrie at white house. the late-night comics go after goldman sachs and on "hardball" "sideshow" you're going to hear all the jokes. row to finish what you started today. for the aches and sleeplessness in between, there's new motrin pm. no other medicine, not even advil pm, is more effective for pain and sleeplessness. new motrin pm. in what? imported ice? yeah! i mean, people love imported water. so this is the next logical step. i think i'll stick with following my green line. oh, come on! hey, working with my guy at fidelity could have me retiring in a few years. and besides, couldn't people just freeze their imported water? don't be ridiculous. work with the company that's helping more people reach retirement than anyone else -- because when it comes to investing, you should never settle. fidelity investments.

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back to "hardball." now for the "sideshow." first of all, it's not a sideshow when it's your money. but let's listen. >> so now, we will attempt to figure out just what exactly is going on at goldman sachs, that the s.e.c. is now charging them with fraud and on our continuing wall street segment -- these [ bleep ] guys. >> so here are the goldman sachs excuses. number nine -- you're saying "fraud" like it's a bad thing. number eight --

number four -- hey, sport, how much to make these questions go away? number three -- american needed a villain both republicans and democrats can hate. and the number one goldman sachs excuse, it's obama's fault? >> why are government employees filing a civil suit against goldman sachs? that's just going to be embarrassing in a few years when they all go back to work at goldman sachs. >> regulate these derivative markets. who can disagree with that? >> republicans aren't beating around the bush anymore. they say flat-out they will filibuster new rules for the nation's financial system. gop senators contend the legislation would lead to more bank bailouts. >> these [ bleep ] guys. >> sorry, there's nothing funny about people being out there screwing up the american economy. just ask anyone out there right now trying to get a job or trying to get a loan. next, bartering for health care. that's a proposal being offered

by republicans sue lowden of nevada who is running to replace senator harry reid this election. you know, given someone a bag of potatoes for getting your broken arm fixed. here she was with her idea. >> let's change the system and talk about what the possibilities are. i'm telling you that this works. you know, before we all started having health care in the olden days our grandparents, they would bring a chicken to the doctor. they would say i will paint your house. they would do -- i mean, that's the old days of what people would do to get health care with their doctors. doctors are very sympathetic people. i'm not backing down from that system. >> bring a chicken to the doctor, paint their houses, is that what the republicans mean by repeal and replace? time now for the "big number." and it spells big trouble for senator jon ensign. remember ensign admitted last year to an affair with one of his staffer's wife, well his wife is currently under investigation as to whether he broke lobbying laws to help that staffer get another job.

anyway, senator ensign hasn't yet said whether he's going to run for re-election in 2012 but his first quarter of fund-raising number this year gives you an idea of just how tough it would be. according to talking points memo, just one person, one, donated to ensign's re-election so far, giving this senator a grand haul of $50 in fund-raising money. the lone donor actually explained his support saying, quote, all men are dogs. that's the donor talking. $50 total donated to senator jon ensign by that guy from one person, who said he's a dog. tonight, not a very "big number." up next arizona goes after illegal immigrants, and also after president obama's birth certificate. they still want another birth certificate. i buy plants, i bring them home, and then...i water too little... too much... or i just forget. but look. this is doing fine. why? it's planted in miracle-gro moisture control potting mix. it holds 33% more water... than ordinary potting soil, releasing it as plants need it, not when i get around to it.

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i'm milissa rehberger.

here's what's happening. the company officials says there were no signs of trouble for an oil platform exploded off the louisiana coast. 17 workers were hurt. three of those critically. 11 are still missing. the airline industry says it's on track to lose more than $2 billion after that cloud of volcanic ash grounded thousands of flights this week. flight schedules are returning back to normal. the house unanimously approved a bill providing relief for american families caring for severely wounded veterans. it now goes to the senate. the house ethics committee will open an investigation into whether democratic leadership was too slow to respond to allegations of sexual harassment against former new york congressman eric massa. thousands of computers at hospitals, schools and police departments were rendered useless for hours today by a glitch in mcafee software. that glitch has been around. nfl suspended pittsburgh

steelers quarterback ben roethlisberger for six games. now back to "hardball." welcome back to "hardball." there's a big fight unfolding in the state of arizona over an immigration bill that would allow local law enforcement officials, police officers, to stop a person, they suspect, is an illegal immigrant. here's illinois congressman louis gutierrez. luis gutierrez reacting to the bill yesterday in washington. let's listen. >> the governor of arizona should veto the bill and if she doesn't, the president of the united states barack obama should assert federal government's preeminent role in regulating and enforcing our nation's immigration laws. the lunacy of rounding up people because they look a certain way are suspected of being in violation of immigration statutes can only lead to one thing, violations of people's basic fundamental civil rights.

>> democratic congresswoman loretta sanchez from california sits on the homeland security committee. and republican congressman brian bilbray of california is a member of the house immigration reform caucus. i want to get to this issue of birthing, or birthers because there's part of this legislation out there that are basically going to say future presidential candidates, they have to have birth certificates. let's start with this general issue. congresswoman sanchez, what's wrong with the state trying to enforce the law, the federal government never seems around to enforcing? they have half a million illegal immigrants in arizona. the federal government has dropped the ball. why shouldn't the state of arizona pick it up and do the job? >> well, actually the federal government has put more resources. many of the law enforcement agencies in arizona are under 287-g but what we find is they're not very well trained about what the rights are of people. so the problem with the law like this is that, for example, i'm hispanic. so if i go to arizona, does that mean i have to carry a copy of my birth certificate?

and an affidavit and 14 signatures of witnesses to say that i'm an american citizen? how do you suspect someone looks like something? that is the problem with the law like that. >> well, what is the law -- what would be a way that we could avoid all this and stop illegal immigration? do you support the idea of a biometric i.d. card that's actually checkable or not have a checkable i.d. card? do you want a checkable i.d. card? >> well, i actually am one of those people that like the freedoms of being in the united states and one of the things that we have always argued for was that we wouldn't have a national i.d. card, but again i'm also a person who lives under an i.d. card here in the congress, i live under a driver's license that's under the biometric i.d. for the future for california. so i mean, i'm already using that if i want to drive, fim already using that if i want to come into the capitol. so personally i don't have a problem with it but there are a lot of conservatives who do. >> well, that's their problem. the fact is you and i have to get on airplanes and show an honest i.d. card and if it's not

an honest i.d. card, it's fraud. okay. and if we go to the bank and try to get money out and if it's not us, it's fraud. if we try to check into a hotel and use a phony name it's fraud. go the other congressman. what about arizona? why does states try to get into the business the federal government is into? which is protecting us from illegal immigration? >> well, i think the same reason they're involved in the drug war, too, chris, is that this is a community problem. it's not just a washington, d.c., concern or just a border problem. this is something across the board. you can imagine how successful we'd number fighting the -- of drug dealers if we just said well, local government's not going to be involved, we will not allow the counties and cities involved, we'll do this all, just the federal government and you know it has to be a coordinated community effort across the board, and any kind of enforcement effort. this is the basis of community enforcements. >> yeah, okay. let me ask you a problem. suppose you have a second-generation mexican-american or from

colombia or somewhere, you have a hispanic look, complex, whatever you, may have something about you that indicates you from that part of the country or that part of the world originally, your parents were. and a cop stops you and says, well you have a mustache, or something that makes me think that you're mexican-american or something and he starts bothering you. don't you think we'll have a problem here with cops bothering people just because they seem to be hispanic even though they're citizens or they have a green card? he chris, that's why we have -- we have the policies that there are things that you indicate that even go beyond the color of your skin, the hair, the looks of the fact of the way that you dress. my mother is an emigrant. i'm second generation on that. she speaks a little funny. but the fact is that the law enforcement is trained in this law, it specifically says you will have a pattern of activity or a pattern of indications that give you a justification to think there's reasonable doubt. not just the fact of somebody's ethnicity. so this one has in there, it's something that the federal government does with local government right now. we have programs so that they are using these systems right now. the difference is the people of

arizona are doing this across the board rather than piecemeal in their state and that's why it's being implemented and it isn't that big of a leap and it shouldn't be. >> let me go to the -- go ahead, congresswoman. >> that's just not true, in fact one of the sheriffs there in arizona is under fbi investigation because he hasn't followed the rules and his deputies have not followed the rules. they haven't gotten the type of training that we get -- give to our i.c.e. or our federal agencies -- agents that do this immigration issue. so there are quite a few, in fact, the border chairwoman for over four years, one of the things that i saw was, you know discussion after discussion from law enforcement officers about how this wasn't followed, about how people were being pulled over without, you know -- and the law, the language that could be signed into law by this arizona government says, you suspect them of being an illegal. what does that mean? you suspect them of being an illegal? >> chris, look, someone born and

raised on the border i have seen this my entire life. there is indications between legal residents and those who can be identified as being highly susceptible. >> like what? give me a non-ethnic aspect that would tell you to look at somebody. >> they will look at the kind of dress you wear. are there different types of attire. there are different type -- right down the shoes, right down to the clothes, but mostly by behavior. it's mostly behavior just as the law enforcement people here in washington, d.c., does it based on certain criminal activity. there's behavior things professionals are trained in across the board and this group shouldn't be exempt from those observations as much as anybody else. >> here's john mccain, a new look. he was mr. immigration. here he is on "bill o'reilly." he has a different look right now. hooer here he is. let's listen to john mccain. >> the state of arizona is acting and doing what they feel they need to do in light of the fact that the federal government

is not fulfilling its fundamental responsibility to secure our borders. >> what about the racial profiling? you know that's going to happen. it has to happen. >> i hope -- i would be very sorry that if some of that happens and i -- i regret it. >> okay, congresswoman, what do you think of john mccain, the new john mccain? >> well, i think -- he's obviously trying to win a primary where he's got a very conservative, you know, person who's very, very -- got some very strange ideas. i know i have served with that person here in the congress. i hope that john does beat him and then john comes back as a senator and gets back to the issue of -- of really being middle of the road here in helping us to push real and good immigration reform because that's what we need. we don't need to be profiling people. we don't need to be going after people. we don't need to have local agencies deciding to take people off of the street for whatever reason because they look like a suspect. we need good immigration reform here from the capitol. >> i love the way you give john mccain a ride. you figure he's just faking it

so you don't mind. let's take a look, just so he beats j.d. hayworth, that's all you care. let me two to congressman bilbray first. you're a republican. what do you make of the state of arizona saying you have to have a birth certificate to get on the ticket next time? do you think this is ad hominem. is this a bill of retainer as we used to say in the constitution classes. is this aimed directly at the president of the united states, himself, barack obama? >> no, chris, actually this is arizona. this is really aimed at mccain, because mccain was -- there's been an issue with the fact that he wasn't born in the united states. now it's interesting the fact that he's qualified to be citizen -- a president. you don't have to be born in the united states but a lot of people look at that but because he was born in panama and the panama canal is not -- was not u.s. territory, it was u.s. area to be treated as if it's territory by treaty with panama, so mccain's actually went through a lot of same thing in arizona -- >> but they're doing it now.

>> -- when a question was raised about his presidency. >> but doing it now. john mccain is not running for president. he doesn't have to be native born anymore. he's an american, obviously. the question is why are they aiming it at the president of the united states now? do you think it's personal? one more try. >> no. i don't think it's personal. i think it's a way to avoid -- i think all of us, chris, everybody in elected office should be showing that we are a citizen and the problem with this bill is it should be universal to all elected officials. i don't know if mccain is running again. remember, he's been running every election since i've -- i've been a child. so i'm not so sure you can say he's not running. >> well, i can't either but i tell you this, barack obama has shown his birth certificate to the world, he has shown documentation of his birth twice now from two different newspaper accounts which were only written with the authorities participating in those announcements. they weren't just somebody putting out christmas cards. announce wants of somebody being born. we have all of the records available from anybody who comes out of hawaii, he has shown the

record and the birthers are crazy and they keep raising this crazy issue. now the assembly of arizona has joined the birther wagon and are behaving just as zanily as the birthers. thank you congresswoman sanchez and congressman bilbray. up next, i'm in pennsylvania tonight where the senate primary race is getting a little nasty. arlen specter is getting a little nasty. joe sestak is going to talk to us about the latest arlen ad against him. it says he was relieved of duty. we're going to see what he thinks about that when he was a navel admiral. the district of columbia never had a voting member of congress. will it have one now? we're going to tell you. the verdict's in, at least for now. ♪ introducing gillette odor shield antiperspirant. unlike regular deodorants, it targets and neutralizes odor at the source. help eliminate odor, don't just cover it up. ♪ gillette odor shield antiperspirant.

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we're back. the democratic primary up here in philadelphia and pennsylvania pits the incumbent, senator arlen specter who was a republican for 30 years, he's now a democrat against joe sestak, who's always been a democrat. this week specter went negative, it wasn't a surprise but it's pretty tough stuff. let's watch this ad. pay attention. here's the ad. >> joe sestak relieved of duty in the navy for creating a poor command climate. joe sestak, the worst attendance of any pennsylvania congressman and near the bottom of the entire congress. last year alone, sestak missed 127 votes. sestak says the missed votes weren't important.

he went campaigning instead. let's say no to no-show joe. >> i don't know why they find those creepy announcers but that's a pretty creepy ad. that's congressman joe sestak. i have to congratulate you, sir, for keeping your sanity during this race. you must have known going up arlen specter, you have four weeks. is this going to come? he's done it to jim hoeffel. anyone that's run against him he has destroyed. he doesn't just run against, he prosecutes you. he makes you the bad guy. you are evil at the end of these races. you must have known this was coming. what's your reaction? >> well, i'm going to find it hard to believe that the leaders of my democratic party aren't already on the phone to arlen specter. i mean remember what joe biden said. i support barack obama because he doesn't try to perfect the politics of swift voting. he seeks to end them. and i think that everybody's pretty obvious that what arlen specter has done is reverted to old republican-style politics but now he's in a democratic party. let me give you a quote.

so remember when barack obama as a candidate said i love this country too much to let them steal another election by lies like this one, outrageous, phony assertions, swift voting. you know, they did this to max cleeland who lost his limbs in vietnam. they did it to john kerry. they aren't going to stand for this false assertion he's made. you don't get to be a three-star admiral, lead the navy's anti-terrorism unit, command an aircraft carrier battle group without having an distinguished career. arlen specter. it is time whoult a question for the change in politics. i don't think my party leadership -- >> you're optimistic. let me ask you this. do you think people watching the ad we just watched thinks you're section 8? you had a problem? you were relieved of duty for some personal reason? that's what they're saying, you had a problem. what does relieved of duty mean to you?

to me it means you couldn't finish the job. you had a problem, mental, emotional, whatever, you couldn't do the job so they took it away from you. >> i think it's pretty obvious right now that the verdict on arlen specter is he's not fit to be the united states senator. that's why he's going to be relieved of command. look, arlen specter's verdict has already been made. you know it. you've seen the rasmussen poll. we'resen poll, we're in a dead heat. i can respect him for his service but not for these outrageous lies. and the things he's saying now, you know pennsylvanians, chris. time has come to change politics, and you saw massachusetts say it. if you don't change politics, we're in this for principle, and there's too many principles in our democratic party to welcome arlen specter's negative tactics. >> let me tell you what i know about politics. if you're in office 45 years like arlen and you've been a senator for 30 years with a good record, and you want to defend, you think it's a good record, but yet you've got to run ads

about your opponent saying he was relieved of duty and he's a skunk basically, a section 8, there must be something showing up up in your polling that's showing you you have to do this. you've got the rasmussen poll. all the other polls got you 15 points out. you think you're going to win this when he's running this negative stuff? >> you also saw there was another poll, i'd forgotten the name just after rasmussen where i closed 14 points from three weeks before. you know as well as i do, he said he wasn't going to go up on tv until i did. when those two polls came up, he started a week ago. he's running scared. the only thing he can do, because he has no accomplishments other than supporting george bush, four out of five times. don't get me wrong he's done things like nah funding, but what's he going to do? say i'm a democrat and argue with me on policy? no way. look. arlen specter, let's thank him for his service. but this negativity -- and, chris, we know it's tough in politics. think about the seven or eight people who thought they would

get in to run against him and never did. for various reasons, including they knew this is what arlen did, i got in this race despite all that because i honestly do believe it's time for a change where people can trust somebody. here he is giving rick santorum his vote saying i'll support george bush's nominees for the supreme court justice if rick santorum will give me his endorsement. what a shame to give away one's independent vote. >> do you think pennsylvanians would have a nasty customer like that ad shows arlen to be or have somebody sort of st. francis, a nice guy. do you think the public doesn't want some tough customer? he's been called snarling arlen because he's tough. if you say nice things about him, he won't say anything nice about you, you know the uneven nature of this battle? >> when i was on the ground in afghanistan

afghanistan, with my aircraft command and we were doing strikes over afghanistan, there's -- there's no one that's not going to call me tough. but have i increased the small business contracts in my district threefold in three year? absolutely. the results of arlen specter is pennsylvania's job creation has been half -- >> we've got to go. >> toughness yes, but results also. results. >> senator specter, if you want to come on and defend the charge that this fellow was relieved of command, the very words you used, if you want to back them up on the air, i think it does imply a real problem. if you want to make the case, come on in and blast the guy personally, not just do a paid ad. thank you very much. >> thank you. i appreciate it. >> when we return, it must be the rasmussen poll in my head. we'll talk about the republican that ended up on mt. rushmore by

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let me finish tonight with a word about the party of teddy roosevelt. roosevelt became vice president in 1901. within months, president mckinically was shot in buffalo and we found out self-s with a rooting, tooting reformer. he turned out to be the most popular republican of all time, up on mt. rushmore.

talk about being independent. here's what he said about the big business in his day, we demand giving the people a square deal. in return we must insist that when anyone engaged in big business, honestly endeavors to do right, he himself shall be given a square deal. roosevelt had his version of goldman sachs to deal with, a railroad monopoly owned by financier jpmorgan. morgan tried to slip out of a mess he got himself into. quote, if we have done anything wrong, send your man to my man, and they can fix it up. well, teddy roosevelt told jp to forget about your man, my man business. quote, we don't want to fix it up. he sent word back to morgan. we want so stop the dirty deals, period. maybe president obama will get really tough with wall street. certainly there would be a loud cheering section if he did. and maybe even get some republicans behind him if he does. maybe there are a few who still have a picture of teddy roosevelt up on their wall. that's "hardball" for now.

"countdown" with keith olbermann starts right now. which of these stories will you be talking about tomorrow? president obama says no more business as usual for wall street, and that's a good thing. even for banks. >> people will have confidence that when they're dealing with banks and these institutions that they, in fact, are playing it straight. >> this as a senate committee passes strict new measures governing derivatives and another group of senators moves to make sure big banks get broken up to avoid the need for more bailouts. the calm before the supreme storm. >> i'm confident that we can come up with a nominee who will gain the confidence of the senate and the confidence of the country. >> with the white house gearing up for a confirmation battle and republicans ready to fight whoever the president nominates, are the chances getting better he will choose a real liberal?

colonel sanders, move over, it's dr. sanders to the rescue. >> in the olden days our grandparents, they were bringing chicken to the doctor. >> chickens for your co-pay? how is she beating harry reid in the polls? and fox news swats at the hornet's nest by going after jon stewart again. >> clearly you want to be a social commentator more than just a comedian. and if you want to be a good one, you better find some guts. >> and no surprise, stewart has a killer response. >> fox news, you're the loopest of news. >> all that and more now on "countdown." >> i'm not fair. i'm not balanced. good evening from los angeles, i'm lawrence o'donnell in for keith olbermann. democrats in the senate are planning to hold a key procedural vote