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it will be me and eight of us hanging out in my backyard with a picnic. let's get that on the schedule.

and one more time before we go to "morning joe," this is for pete breen who likes pint-sized ponies, look at the world's tiniest ponies. he's a small-statured stud and a pint-sized pony because alliteration works on television. you're welcome, pete. "morning joe" starts right now. ♪ this guy right here walking down the street looks fine, right? >> i guess he looks fine. >> he is. but what about this guy? >> uh, fine? >> no. he's not. he's reasonably suspiciously illegal. all right. let's try it again. this guy. >> whoa, no, yes! that's -- that's jeffrey dahmer! he's a cannibal and a killer. he is obviously suspicious. you have to arrest him! >> no, this isn't hitler's germany. you can't just pull people off the street for being hungry.

jon, i'm going to give you one more final chance. >> all right. >> what do you do? what do you do? >> you -- you arrest her. >> just her? >> you arrest the monkey, too? >> oh, why, because he's gay? you disgust me. >> no. >> hey, welcome to "morning joe." breaking news, dora arrested on "the daily show" last night. >> dora. >> lordy. they can take dora for a couple of weeks. but the rest of this bill, talk about a bill that is fueling anger. i went home last night after, you know, we worked for 80 hours. >> right. >> and i decided to get on my twitter feed because i didn't have a chance to do it during the day. both sides were killing me. and not me, it's everybody. you can't talk about this debate without people being angry. but there's a lot to talk about.

and it's very interesting, mika, that this immigration bill was at the center stage of the political debate in america. but we have so much more going on today that that's not going to even be touched by anybody in washington. >> well, we'll talk about it certainly, but we have a lot of other things to talk about as well. and it's a good thing that mark halperin is with us on this tuesday morning. >> good morning. >> recent immigrant. >> yes, you are. >> to these shores. >> look at halperin. does he get pulled over? >> i don't know. no way. pasty white. >> 35 in a 25-mile-per-hour zone. >> he's got a ruddy complexion. >> yeah. oh, look. >> look, it's the man that reports on the pretty pint-sized pony. >> wasn't that beautiful? >> should we tell him? >> named p ed petunia from pens. >> that was all pete breen. there's snacks on the way. he gets winded and he rests. >> i see. >> so pete's pretty.

pony named petunia. >> he loves little ponies. i don't know what it is. he was really pushing me. >> how certain are you that's not a sea monkey? >> i can't confirm that. that's an excellent question. >> so getting back to what's going on on capitol hill today, we have a lot going on you'll talk about in the news. obviously carl levin will have a showdown with lord blankfein. i'll get his name right. >> blankfein is fine. >> not today because they found about 3.5, maybe $4 billion more in these assets. so there's going to be some real problems with goldman sachs. and then i guess the republicans, mark halperin, we'll talk about this after news. the republicans have decided to block the financial reform bill. >> i still don't quite get their strategy because i think eventually they're going to give in. i'm not sure why they're saying please, sir, may i have another? there's some substantive

complaints but those they could probably work out in 20 minutes. >> in the immortal words of "top gun," gutsiest move i've ever seen, maverick. senate democrats remain confident they will be able to push through financial reform zpat failing to get the 60 needed to start debate on the measure. yesterday gop members stood firm, voting unanimously to block the legislation from reaching the senate floor. republicans maintain there are still too many problems with the bill, saying it would guarantee future bailouts of wall street banks and create new bureaucracies. but democrats are indicating they will not budge. >> how do we claim perfection in what we've written here? hardly. but we believe it's sound ideas that deal with these very issues that caused the problems in the first place. and what we need to do is to be able to debate those ideas. if my colleagues in this chamber, as many do, disagree, some think i've gone too far. some think i haven't gone far

enough. those are two maybe legitimate points. but how will we resolve it if we can't have the debate this chamber was designed to engage in? what's the point of having 100 seats coming from 50 states when a major issue affecting our country cannot even be the subject of a debate? >> we have the capacity as a country to create capital and credit in a very aggressive way so that entrepreneurs who are willing to go out and take risks have access to capital and credit, and that creates jobs, and that creates the dynamics of our economy. and we shouldn't put in place a regulatory regime that overly reacts and as a result significantly dampens our capacity to have the most vibrant capital and credit markets in the world. >> nonetheless, there appears to be progress behind the scenes, and another vote may come as soon as today. if so, well, first of all, what do you think democrats --

somebody should compromise here on this. this is kind of a no-brainer, isn't it? >> and because it's a no compromise for their own greater good. things are looking bad for democrats. not obama. obama was, i think, at 51 in the latest gallup poll. he's doing all right. but democratic party fortunes are way, way down. if i'm the democrats in the senate, i double down on this. >> yeah. >> not only do i not try to strike a bipartisan bill with republicans, i start openly provoking them today. and i make it untenable for them to support this bill. i say double down. i triple down. and just say, go ahead, make my day. paul simon, senator of illinois, i say it all the time in politics, sometimes when you

lose, you win. nothing politically. and i'm just talking the politics of this, mark halperin. not politically would be better for democrats than to have the gop kill this wall street reform bill. and then we've got the battle lines drawn in the fall. democrats are going to be branded the party of big government because they are. but they can make republicans the party of wall street. then you've got a level playing field to fight on. and i think that's the best bet the democrats have this year. >> right. but again, i don't think it will come to that. in the end, a lot of republicans will vote for this. i said the other day that i thought it was possible that mitch mcconnell would vote for it. and i still think that's possible. why they want to go through this pain of being seen on the wrong side of public opinion on this issue for more days and then end up voting for it and having the president get to have a big signing ceremony with chris dodd is beyond me. >> yeah. >> if you're a democrat, you want this to be the opposite of "field of dreams." >> right. >> instead of easing his pain, you want to enhance his pain.

and her pain. and the republican party's pain. i would start moving the goalposts if i were democrats. again, i'm just speaking politically. because republicans have left themselves vulnerable. this is a key strategic opening for the democratic party. and if the democrats know what they're doing, they'll make this bill impossible for republicans to support. and they will drive it home because guess what? later on today, the ceo of goldman sachs is going to get skewered on capitol hill. >> classic theater. >> it's going to be a political bloodbath. and the democrats on the eve of this bloodbath, the democrats have their opponents saying no to financial reform on wall street. this is a win-win, win, willie. >> do you remember a week ago we had the stories where republicans have come to their senses and realize it's a fight not worth waging? because they had fought a couple weeks ago, then it looked like on the sunday shows they were

going to go along with it. so what has changed where they're standing in the way? >> i think senator reid forced a vote and it got the republicans' backs up. went daunt to have the negotiations cut. another big story tied to this, executives will be facing tough questions on capitol hill today on allegations they misled investors about complex securities. according to his prepared testimony, goldman ceo lloyd blankfein will strongly disagree with the securities and exchange commission charges but will also recognize how, quote, such a complicated transaction may look to many people. and although he will acknowledge that goldman needs to do better, the embattled financial titan will also defend his firm's actions. saying that while profitable overall, goldman lost $1.2 billion from their activities in the u.s. housing market. on monday senator carl levin who chairs the panel probing the financial crisis released hundreds of new e-mails and

goldman sachs documents that he says prove the company is lying about losing money in the mortgage market. you know, i have to tell you, i still stick to -- i don't understand, this is like a slap on the wrist. these are -- and probably the timing here is not coincidental. >> maybe it is. the problem here, though, is that very few of these people on capitol hill have any idea how wall street runs. they've never had any idea how wall street runs. >> that's fair. it's very complicated. >> a lot of these guys, i remember one of the reasons i got elected is a lot of these guys couldn't run their own checking accounts. remember the bank check scandal? there's no way carl levin or any of these people would understand how ceo and how jpmorgan run their business. now they hedge bets. i'm not excusing anything. i'm saying there's going to be so much demagoguery today. but, again, the political analyst in me says for the

democrats, this is a winning issue. >> unless i'm wrong about what's in the bill they're talking about, it doesn't seem to really do the trick. it's not strong enough. and i guess the question to you is you're in office. you've been given a lot of money by wall street. do you have a problem making a diagnosis on this? >> no. >> why -- do you think that others are? >> yes. i think wall street -- i think wall street, mark halperin -- >> so we're not going to be protected from this happening again because wall street has given tons of money to everybody in office that they don't have the you know what to do the right thing? >> wall street fuels political campaigns, mark halperin, especially political campaigns. and maybe a senator who doesn't think he or she is going to run for president one day. >> you know, i think this is the test of barack obama. one of the reason i think republicans are having trouble is because they're saying democrats are in the pocket of wall street and special interests because they get all these campaign contributions. there's no doubt that most

people on wall street don't like this legislation because they think it is too tough. they don't think it's soft. they think it's too tough. it's going to hurt their business. >> too tough? >> that's what they think. they think it's too tough. so if you're in the pocket of somebody but you're passing legislation they don't like, i'm not sure it's easy to argue that you're actually in their pocket. >> and the biggest objection, i guess, mika that you have and one of the real concerns for me is that too big to fail, as you know, since september 15th, 2008, hassing about too bigger to fail, as you've said here. these big banks have become bigger. and if there's a crash, another bailout's going to be required. >> right. >> because any one of these five or six banks will be able to put a gun to our heads and say, if we go under, it starts a triedal wa tidal wave. bail us out or you die. >> so everything we're debating on capitol hill, this taking on wall street -- >> not every crisis could be as big as the september 15th crash.

>> but isn't the point of this discussion to prevent too big to fail and from this happening again? >> yes. >> it might. >> losers. >> could. >> all right. the fallout over arizona -- >> you don't like this bill. >> you know, i think we're -- it seems to me to be -- >> mika doesn't like this bill. >> -- like a chinese fire drill. everybody's taking their position on it. >> that is a very racist thing to say. let me tell you something. i have had the opportunity -- >> is it? you know the thing with the car? >> i don't know if you knew it or not, but i studied mandarin for 15 years. >> is it? i'm sorry. >> polish fire drill. a polish fire drill. all right. the fallout over arizona's -- >> i'm offended. >> i apologize -- tough new immigration law is intensifying to the point of vandalism. those who say the law leads to racial profiling used refried beans to smear swastikas on the windows of the state capitol-.

i'm sorry. >> idiots. >> refried beans? >> that's all you've got? >> this is those opposing the law. >> artists. >> turning into a stereotype of some sort. i don't get it. i'm confused. >> i said earlier on the other show, when i read that, i thought i was reading "the onion" because it's so incredibly stupid, refried beans swastikas. >> other protesters were out across the state denouncing the law which leads police to question anyone. they believe they were in the country illegally. police are ramping up on the obama administration to intervene on a federal level. while the president has called the bill misguided, on monday robert gibbs other states could also bring in tougher immigration laws if there is no overall reform. >> you have very much what could be 50 immigration laws because without us acting, we've deferred to the states.

i think the president has said, and i think leaders in arizona certainly have both sides of this issue have said that this is a wake-up call for the federal government to act. >> all right. this is a pretty big story. why would arizona take this stand? >> because, as robert gibbs said, they're trying to send a wake-up call to washington, d.c. for years people that have lived along the border in texas, in arizona, in new mexico, have been warning the federal government that things are getting out of hand, and they have been getting out of hand. and violence has continued to erupt. somebody told us yesterday, i forget who it was, that juarez is now the most dangerous city on the planet. it's just south of the border in texas. the irony of this is that janet napolitano was the governor of arizona. then, of course, got to washington, d.c. but this is a stiff rebuke of

her lack of policies at the federal level and barack obama's and the republicans and the democrats like. and there will be other states that feel like they have to step in, mark halperin, if washington doesn't start intervening in a more aggressive way. >> well, we've already seen, lots of states are passing legislation or considering legislation. you know the three people i really want to hear from? george bush, george bush and jeb bush. because those three have all worked for immigration policies that are more comprehensive, also aware of the politics of this. i think right now people are too angry about what's happened in arizona to have a reasonable discussion about it. i think the bushes could do a lot of good to calm things down and to say, we need action in washington as president bush tried to bring it back. i haven't heard from those guys. >> that would be interesting, and maybe we could just simmer it down and keep the refried beans in the pot. >> what is that about? >> you know what i'm saying. >> beans are for eating. >> beans are for eating.

>> janet napolitano, by the way, will be on andrea mitchell's show at 1:00 eastern here on msnbc. up next, an exclusive first look inside the "political playbook" including who might replace senator harry reid. when it comes to brand names, they don't get much bigger than sarah palin. dave takes us inside his cover story for "new york" magazine, "sarah inc." the iphone prototype that was supposedly lost and found in a california bar. the story just got a little stranger. first, speaking of stranger -- >> bizarre. >> -- weird. bill karins with a check on the forecast. >> you should see the things i can do with refried beans. fantastic. >> oh, just please do the weather. >> come on, man. >> sorry. is it tuesday? >> dang! >> sometimes visuals are just better. let's just talk about what's going on out there outside.

showers are continuing through connecticut and also through the boston area. that's where it remains a little bit gloomy. t.j., throw up the shot of new york or washington because it does throw the story. we are showing cloudy skies in new york and a lot of light rain out there. it will clear out a little bit later this afternoon. the forecast will be about 56 degrees in new york. the rain will end as the week goes on. 80 by saturday. won't that be nice. you're watching "morning joe" brewed by starbucks. national car rental knows i'm picky.

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thoughts that went through george w. bush's mind as he wrote his memoir. number ten, what's a memoir? number nine, is 36 pages enough? number six. how cool is it that i was president? come on, up high. do you speck nuclee spell nucle two "os" or an "e-w"? and number one, shouldn't cheney be writing this? >> time now to look at the "morning papers." "new york times," front payable, page, power point diagram used to show afghanistan. after first seeing the graphic, general mcchrystal joked, when we understand that slide, we'll have won the war. that's a good one. >> and a stunning admission from

the new york safety inspector in "the new york times," despite filing hundreds of clean reports for asbestos and lead testing, a longtime inspector admitted he actually had not performed a single one of those tests. >> that's terrific. "wall street journal," a federal appeals court ruled that a gender discrimination suit against walmart can go forward, clearing the way for one of the biggest class action lawsuits in history. >> and "miami herald," manuel noriega has been extradited to france where he's expected to stand trial on money laundering charges. >> "usa today," young adults are less devoted to faith. a major survey by a christian research firm shows most young adults don't pray or read the bible. more than 70% said they were more spiritual than religious. >> i've got one more. >> what's that? >> one more from the papers. so i'm googling mika yesterday, as i always do, every hour on the hour. >> weirdo.

>> i feel you guys need to work a couple more hours a day. >> we're not working hard enough. >> another hour. are you crazy? >> yeah, we are. >> are you crazy? >> we are crazy. things have taken off there. we're beating -- we beat "beck" every month in new york. that's the number one market. when we were brought on, they wanted us -- it was, like, beat "beck." and we've been beating "beck" on radio. >> now we get to do more. >> and now we get to do more. >> a little break. >> a little hiatus and develop a three-hour show there. when things fall into play. we need to work more. >> i know, i'm sorry. i wasn't doing enough. >> is it true the third hour will be mime and juggling? >> i thought i might do some modeling. >> modeling. polish modeling. >> yes, exactly. and hand modeling by mika. it's going to be great. >> that's good news. >> it's great news. >> exciting. >> i'll tell you what, when we

started this, the folks at abc radio and citadel took a big gamble because talk radio is -- has been pretty conservative, consistently. we have a variety of voices. and it's worked. our ratings have drawn 100% in the past six months. and we're getting a big chunk of ratings. >> we love it. >> now there will be even more of it. >> because we don't work enough. >> let's go to politico. mike allen is the chief political correspondent for politico. he's got a look at the "morning playbook." mike, how you doing? >> good morning. and six days will the willie geist birthday. how are you going to celebrate? >> you know what that means. five days till the mika brzezinski birthday. they say he's the best and he is. >> how did he miss mika's birthday? >> he missed it. >> no, five days. five days. >> mike -- mike, how old am i going to be? >> very young. >> there it is. >> come on. >> see, he is good.

now we know why the white house wakes up to him. let's talk a little business. senators chuck schumer and dick durbin, rivals to succeed harry reid as majority leader, if something should happen to mr. reid in the state of nevada. they're both raising money for him. talk about this delicate dance they're having to do. >> it's more than a delicate dance. it's a crazy washington story. these two people who both want senator reid's job as the senate majority leader, they're united in one thing, and that is raising money. and they're raising money to help him keep the job that he -- that they want. so yesterday senator schumer was with leader reid up in brooklyn. and dick durbin of illinois has an event out there for him. senator durbin loan has raised hundreds of thousands of dollars for harry reid. and as "morning joe" viewers know, leader reid could use it. things not looking good.

one of the reasons that immigration is going back to the top of the agenda. he appeared in washington, he thinks that will help him. and he's going to try and ride this banking issue. we're told that as soon as tomorrow, leader reid is going to force another vote, try and get republicans on the side of -- against rules and regulation. >> real quick, what's the relationship like personally with reid, durbin and schumer? >> they get along fine. if it were ugly, it would only hurt that person. you can hear arguments for both durbin and schumer getting it. i think schumer would be more a sign of change. durbin would be more continuity. >> aren't durbin and schumer roommates? >> they are. and literal room, they sleep in the same room. different couches. >> what? >> you know who else lives in there. >> who? >> della. a bad place. >> a bad reality show. >> it is.

it's a little gross. i'm not going to lie. >> thanks, mike. talk to you in a couple hours. next, president obama welcomes the yankees to the white house and then takes a swipe at the chicago cubs. just a complete cheap shot at the poor cubs. >> yeah. and this from a guy who can't even throw the ball like a man. >> that's a good point. and later, senator claire mccaskill, reverend al sharpton and kerry kennedy. reminder, you can listen to "morning snow" on satellite radio.

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♪ welcome back to "morning joe." just after 6:30 on the east coast. time for a look at some of today's top stories. crews are racing to protect the louisiana coast this morning after an oil rig exploded and sank in the gulf of mexico nearly a week ago. around 42,000 gallons of crude are spilling from the site of day. though officials do not expect it to reach the shore for at least another three days, still

workers are hoping to contain the leak and are now using a remote sub to try and shut off the well. the future of newspaper publishing continues to look bleak. after the release of new figures on monday, according to the latest data average weekday sales were down almost 9% since the same time last year. research also showed the decline was widespread with nearly all of the major newspapers losing circulation. among the 25 largest newspapers, "the san francisco chronicle" suffered the most, losing nearly 23% of its weekday sales. >> and look at halperin. that's why. >> yeah. >> it's this tool of the devil, the ipad. >> you have one. >> oh, i do, that's right, the tool of the devil. >> well, he does it to look at news. willie and i use our ipads for different reasons. >> sports. >> now, stop. >> sports. >> you and the s.e.c. and a new study finds men and women who eat high levels of chocolate -- >> yeah. -- are more likely to be depressed. >> not true. >> what?

>> researchers say those who screened positive for depression on average ate eight servings of chocolate a month. compared with five servings of those who were not. while scientists rpt sure what causes the link, they admit depressed people may be trying to self-medicate. >> this guy. >> it's much easier just to go right for the pills. >> i do self-medicate with chocolate. >> i self-medicate. >> is that a problem? >> absolutely. >> with pills -- >> right. >> you do it with medication. i do it with chocolate. >> i do it with chocolate-covered pills to get both. >> yummy. let's talk a little sports here. >> good idea. >> big ben roethlisberger has apologized. >> i feel better now. >> he says he won't appeal the six-game suspension for violating the league's personal conduct policy. he did make his first written comments yesterday about the suspension, apologizing for his behavior last month in a georgia

bar where a 20-year-old college student accused him of sexual misconduct. no charges were brought in that case. roethlisberger's statement read, in part, though i have committed no crime, i regret that i have fallen short of the values instilled in me by my family. i will not appeal the suspension and will comply with what is asked of me and more. missing games will be devastating. i'm sorry to let down my teammates and the steelers fans. i am disappointed that i have reached this point and will not put myself in this situation. >> wasn't he in this situation before? >> yeah. this is his second go 'round. there have been whispers of other things, never convicted of a crime, though. >> okay. >> good enough? >> good enough. innocent till proven guilty, baby. let's go to the white house. president obama welcoming the world series new york yankees. it's been nine years since they've been there. the team presented obama with a number 9 jersey. the president is a die-hard white sox fan. he praised the yankees and

managed to slip in a shot at chicago's other team. >> it's been nine years since your last title which must have felt like an eternity for yankees fans. i think other teams would be just fine with a spell like that. the cubs. for example. >> that's just too easy. that's too easy. coming up next, the main reason sarah palin probably will not run for president in 2012. gabriel sherman will explain. it's the focus of a great new cover story in "new york" magazine. also, the daily beast's tina brown helps us look at this morning's must-read opinion pages. you're watching "morning joe" brewed by starbucks. what did we make better ?

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before we all started having health care in the olden days, our grandparents, they would bring a chicken to the doctor. >> that's right. if you can't afford health insurance, forget about mandates and confusing plans. just bring a chicken to the doctor. see, the plan is simple. just go where they sell live chickens. i assume that's a chicken ranch. you could buy one for about 8 bucks. then when the doctor wants to charge you $40,000 to put a stent in your heart, offer him the chicken. >> look at the feet. i love it. >> that is a good deal. you had a chicken. >> i had a black chicken named rose. >> got killed. >> she was my pet. i carried her around in my coat.

>> until mom caught up with you with the hatchet. >> we ate it. tina brown from t thedailybeast.com. >> good morning. >> and contributing editor for "new york" magazine, he tackles the business of sarah palin. he writes this -- sarah palin is a singular national industry. no one else has rolled politics and entertainment into the same scintillating, infuriating, lucrative package the way palin has or marketed herself over multiple platforms with the sophistication and sheer ambitiousness that palin has shown, all while maintaining a viable presence as a prospective presidential candidate in 2012. you kind of lost me at the end there. but otherwise that was quite good. >> and the most amazing part of it, as you read this article, this is a woman, as you describe, that was nervous two years ago, pacing around her home because she couldn't pay these mounting legal bills. >> the legal bills. >> now she could buy a law firm. >> yeah.

i think the fact -- one of the revelations i learned is that weeks after the presidential election, mark burnett was calling her personally up in wasilla pitching her on this reality tv show that now is morphed into the tlc program about alaska. so the idea that she was getting opportunities to be an entertainment figure, it makes perfect sense why she would choose that path. >> tina, there's a massive disconnect between the coasts and middle america when it comes to sarah palin. and it's in the numbers. hold on a second, though. let me just say really quickly, she goes on "saturday night live," highest ratings in 14 years. she goes on "oprah," highest ratings in several years. she sells almost as many books as mark halperin. and yet she's still mocked on the coasts. and yet america -- a large segment of america adores her. >> absolutely. she is a ratings rock star. what i find interesting about this terrific piece is it really shows we're now into a new phase of the nexus between celebrity and politics because there was

in era before where people used celebrity to get into politics, which was fair enough. you know, arnold schwarzenegger, et cetera. now we have a new era which is people using politics to get into celebrity. >> right. >> i mean, i feel that when sarah palin is really talking to these tea party movements, she's not really talking to them as members of true believers in a political movement. she's talking to them as consumers. i mean, this is her market, her audien audience. it's not really about politics for her. it's really about celebrity. it's pretending to be politics. that's how i read sarah palin. she's created a new kind of celebrity. >> and mark halperin, what's so fascinating is -- and you would greatly offend both of these political figures -- >> are you getting texted? >> -- by saying this. but the fact is that there are only two political superstars out there. one is barack obama. he was a political superstar before he was president. and the other is sarah palin. they got that star power. >> although i'll tell you a

third person who's not quite in their league but i think has benefited from the same phenomenon is scott brown. he's got -- >> but say how many books scott brown sells. >> i don't see that. >> i see him as a passing twinkie. >> the way he's done so far, i think he's got the same potential. not at the same level, but the same quality that is going to make him more than a normal senator. >> you notice how focused i am here? i just let a passing twinkie go right past me. now we're going to go back to gabe. what the hell was that? gabe, tell us more. what did you learn? >> tina's wikipedia entry and scott brown's. >> oh, my gosh! >> i think what's fascinating is that palin has decided that she wants to speak directly to her market. she doesn't need the media filter. in fact, one of her advisers told me that through facebook and her tv show and fox, she doesn't need reporters like me. there's no reason she would sit down to do an interview when she can get paid -- >> oh, i think you're useful.

i think all of us are useful because we can then be the enemy by which she grows her platform. >> exactly. >> but a great celebrity like her -- >> we are, though, the mainstream media is sarah palin's prop, it is not the vehicle. >> right. yes. >> she does not need anybody but her fans right now. >> well, the thing about her is she has the quality i think that great stars have, which is an element of danger. you never quite know where sarah palin's going to go. you really don't. you don't know which box she's going to come out of. there's a sense of breakneck speed with her racing around with this bizarre entourage. it feels unpackaged. and i think although she is the super package, in fact, the whole thing comes off as something you're never quite sure what is going to come out of sarah palin's mouth. >> why is she, though -- what makes her such a political rock star, a cultural rock star? >> i think -- i traveled to nevada to see her at the tea party event. i saw her -- mark was there --

she was campaigning with john mccain. people time and again say finally we have someone just like us who's speaking for us. there's the sense that even now that she's making millions of dollars, she's been able to retain her every person's relatability. and the question will be as she becomes a full-fledged celebrity, will she still be able to relate to the average person when she's flying around on private jets, staying in four seasons hotels. >> it's also interesting, her choice of where reality show went. she went to cbs, talked to les moonves, jeff zucker. they both passed on it. they didn't think she was big enough. bravo also, not a choice. tell us, explain to viewers why she landed on tlc instead of -- >> it's a fascinating story because it's basically a story of marketing. and tlc has decided that they want to market to -- they don't want to market to the coasts, which is the bravo audiences, "real housewives," "top chef." tlc wants to market to the heartland with very sort of

inspiring stories of regular people. that's why they put the captain sullenberger documentary on. they feel that sarah palin is a product that their consumers will want to see. and i think that's just a fascinating story about looking at her almost as a consumer product that you're packaging and selling to america. >> you know what's so interesting, tina, also is she's a consumer product without much handling. she is making her choices -- one of the maddening things, you talk to people in washington, she doesn't take anybody's advice. >> she doesn't. >> her husband. >> she's not really looking for a political career. that's what i think. i think the potential of having a political career is the jazz for sarah palin. in the end, politics is way too constraining. you're continually being investigated. you're continually being, you know, picked apart. you're continually being -- she couldn't make this kind of dough if she was in politics. she found being a governor was a pain in the neck. it was a bore. she's bored by real politics.

>> and by the way, in her defense, whenever she would go out to the mailbox, someone would be watching. when she became this big national figure, suddenly you could make headlines in alaska if you were a democrat by attacking her. >> they were investigating. >> in just a few months you mention her versus barack obama, in a few months we'll see an interesting test of both of their political power because there are places the president cannot go to campaign in the fall. there are a lot of places people are going to want him. same with palin. she will have lots of requests from people to campaign for them. it's going to be interesting to see because i think the press will seize on that. it will be day to day an obama versus palin question of who can bring more candidates over the finish line. >> but i think you feel at this point she's really campaigned to be simon cowell, not president. >> you know, let's see. let's see how she does in the midterms. i think she's going to be more active than people realize. in september, october. >> but don't you think as soon as they got elected, in the end, it's like you need sarah palin

to get elected. but once you are elected, you don't want sarah palin in your life. >> i think sarah palin's going to make all the money she needs to make. and then i think she's going to run. and i don't think she'll make all the money she feels she needs to make until after 2012. because, you know what? when those legal fees started rolling up in alaska, it was awfully frightening to a mom with five kids and not a whole lot of money. >> nfair enough. >> gabe, thank you so much for coming. great article. and tina, when you come back next time, we're going to talk about this passing twinkie. >> yes. >> this passing twinkie. >> we're going to make it a phrase. no, no. >> as mark said, it's probably going to be on your wikipedia profile. >> that is the title, and then we'll come back and we'll discuss. >> we can debate it. >> tina brown, thank you. >> by the way, thedailybeast, working on ipad app.

really excited. >> thedailybeast. thank you very much, tina brown. still ahead on "morning joe," reverend sharpton will be here. senator bernie sanders of vermont. >> we love socialists. >> and senator claire mccaskill. >> all right. >> she and i have something to discuss. >> yeah, you do. but first, willie, what do you have coming up next? >> well, guys, remember that iphone prototype a guy left at a bar in california? somebody picked it up and sold it to a tech website. you well, now that tech website is feeling the wrath of apple. that story when we come back. smart...you're staying at this resort for free? how?

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love. it's what makes a subaru, a subaru. oh, please tell me it's time. >> it is. >> i need to know. >> can we talk about it? it's on another network. "modern family," abc. >> "modern family," phil griffin and i know the nbc execs will be happy about this, phil griffin gave me apple tv. >> my gosh, that's so nice. >> we watch shows we would never watch. and we stumbled across "modern family." >> i've seen that. >> that is an amazing show. the characters, every one of them. >> it's a little raunchy. >> the gay couple is remarkable. they're perfect. >> is that the one with kristy mcnichol? am i thinking of the right one?

one quick story for you. remember the one we gave you about the apple prototype of the iphone left in a bar apparently by an apple employee? a couple weeks ago picked up by somebody who found it and sold it to gizmodo.com, this tech website. gizmodo now has run afoul of the law, apparently. we don't know if steve jobs is behind this or not. gizmodo gave the phone back to apple. everything's good there. but a task force, a computer task force, basically kicked in the door from the editor and blogger jason chen. that's the guy right there. because he bought stolen property for $5,000. >> oh, come on. >> yeah. they're serving -- they seized his computer, digital camera, the cell phone, a bunch of other stuff from the guy because he dared cross steve jobs and apple. >> i knew what it was about. >> i did, too. >> you know, apple tv so i'm not going to complain. >> no, never. one other thing, the hollywood sign was going to come down. did you know that story?

they were going to sell it so they could put in, like, big luxury homes up there. a bunch of people in l.a. got together, hugh hefner just put them over the top. he gave $900,000, put them at 12.5 million bucks they needed to buy all that land. the hollywood sign stays thanks to hef. >> you know, we have been calling donald trump the abraham lincoln of our century. >> no, don't do it. >> do we switch it to hef? >> no. trump is not. >> and he's a great emancipator. >> donald likes you very much. >> donald loves you. >> i love donald. >> not as much as he loves mommy. >> no. >> but he likes you a light. the reverend al sharpton next.

i do not want the police here, there, arizona, anyplace else pulling people over because you look like you should be pulled over. >> holy [ bleep ]. he thinks you've gone too far, arizona. tom tancredo. the man mexican parents tell their kids about to get them to eat their vegetables. >> that is a shot. >> wow! >> you know, i was -- welcome to "morning joe." >> yes, top of the hour. >> tom tancredo doesn't like this either. that is unbelievable. >> welcome back, everybody. here with us now along with mark halperin and willie geist, me and joe, president of the national action network civil

rights activist reverend al sharpton. >> good morning. >> good morning, reverend al. >> you feeling good? >> back in 1971. >> it's his kind of music. >> your kind of music. and mark halperin's here. i've got to say, reverend al, you are now on the side of joe scarborough and tom tancredo. >> don't depress him. >> and be a bit nervous about a bill that allows people to be pulled over by police because of how they look. >> i think you and him are on the side of the angels. as a minister, we welcome converts. >> okay. very good. we're agreeing on a lot of things these days. educational reform. >> education. >> by the way, look what they're doing in illinois. >> it's a game changer. >> it's a game changer. look at illinois. there's a story in "the times" today, i think, about illinois is now aggressively going after school choice just like you're leading the charge up in harlem

in the south bronx. >> i think that it's very clear that what has been happening in the past hasn't worked. and you've got to push the envelope. i gave president obama a lot of credit because he took on, as you have documented, what would be considered typical support groups to challenge that we need alternatives in education. >> yeah. >> and i think that that was courageous. i don't think he gets enough credit for that. and arne duncan has done an exceptional job. i think it's a civil rights issue. i came in from my vantage point, but i've got to give them credit because there's a lot of political risk in it. i think you have to take those risks for the kids. the education in this country has failed the kids, and that's got to be a problem. >> that's what willie says. it's always about the kids. always about the kids. mark halperin, today on the hill, it's about the cash. lloyd blankfein going to capitol hill. he is going to be absolutely drilled by carl levin and senators.

a bad day if you're the ceo of goldman sachs. >> not so bad. >> possibly a bad day if you're a republican that just blocked financial reform. >> well, he will be beat up, i think, by both sides because i think republicans will take the opportunity to beat him up. but as we talked about earlier, it's all going to go to the thematic of there needs to be a bill to regulate wall street. >> right. >> i think this will only make the democrats' hands stronger, and it was pretty strong yesterday. >> s.e.c. and goldman will have their little settlement. >> mark and i also going to study why apple tv has not caught on more than it has. it is an incredible invention. i'm going to go to arizona now with the news. the fallout over arizona's tough new immigration law is intensifying to the point of vandalism. >> oh, no. what are they doing now? bombs or -- >> sometimes they throw rocks through windows. >> molotov cocktails. >> sometimes it gets worse. in this case opponents who say the law leads to racial

profiling used refried beans to smear swastikas on the windows of the state capitol. >> the horror. did you say taken from the onion, right? >> this is ridiculous and also profa profane. >> ridiculously profane. >> well, it is, swastikas are. others were denouncing the law which questions police to question anyone who are illegally in the country. police are ramping up pressure on obama to intervene on a federal law. while the president has called the law misguided, on monday white house spokesman robert gibbs other states could bring in tough immigration laws if there is no reform. >> you have very much what could be 50 immigration laws. because without us acting, we've deferred to the states. i think the president has said and i think leaders in arizona certainly on both sides of this issue have said that this is a wake-up call for the federal government to act.

>> mark halperin, is the white house nervous about acting on immigration reform in a substantial way before the fall election? >> they're nervous about acting on it legislatively. they think the people in congress who want to push this november are nuts because there's no chance for it to pass. >> so they'll talk about it -- >> i think what they are anxious to do is to go into court. i think they'll certainly applaud those who are going to court to challenge the law. and they will applaud -- and they will, even on their own, file friend of the court or maybe their own. >> reverend, why not just draft an immigration law that takes care of this bill? >> i mean -- >> wouldn't the president show courage if this bill is as bad as they say? >> i haven't talked to the white house on this. i do think that there is a very clear moral issue here and a question of what america is going to stand for. i agree with richard korn who i don't always agree with. we can't have people walking

around with papers. i think the misconception -- this is not a fight for illegal immigrants, this is a fight for legal immigrants and legal citizens who are latino who are going to be harassed and pulled aside and profiled. this is for citizens. >> there's my concern. we had somebody on yesterday that we were talking about this portion, and then he went on and said, can you believe -- what did he say, willie -- can you believe if you're an illegal immigrant, you can be sent to jail. well, if you're an illegal immigrant, you're doing something illegal so that does not shock or offend me. it does offend me where one out of three citizens in arizona are hispanics and you have now put a target on the back of one of three citizens who, if they're walking their dog around a neighborhood, if they're walking their child to school and they're an american citizen or a legal immigrant, to now put a target on their back and make them think that every time they walk out of their door -- >> they have to prove it.

>> -- they may have to prove something. i will tell you, that is un-american. it is unacceptable, and it is un-american. >> if some prominent american like one of the bushes doesn't speak out soon and bring the party back to its senses on this politically, they will confine themselves to minority status. >> where are they? >> for many years. california -- >> pete wilson. exactly. >> pete wilson. this is something that you can understand any anger in arizona that led to this legislation. but politically, this is so toxic -- and i have not heard a single prominent republican voice come out and say, this is not the way we should be doing this. >> why is that, joe? >> where's newt gingrich? where's rudy giuliani? where's rudy giuliani? where are the people who want to be president of the united states in 2012? why aren't they speaking out? it's a good question. >> they are afraid. >> because, again, i, as you know, reverend, because we were joking about it before, you know, i was against the kennedy bill. >> right.

>> i called it amnesty. and i didn't bark because i think it's unfair to other people who want to come to this country that have been trying, be they from pakistan -- and i saw this. a lot of people would be trying to get their spouses to america or trying to get their children to america. >> we disagree on that. but i think the reap we agree on this is this is so egregious. and i think that mark raises a good point because you've got to remember some of the names you're called who want to be president were the same people that were trying to appeal to the latino vote in the last election. this was going to be how they balanced off what they didn't get in the african-american and other communities. now all of a sudden when the latino community, i'm talking about voters, i'm talking about people that have served in the military, needs them to stand up and say, don't unfairly target me, there's silence. i think that that is absolutely repulsive. so rather than ask whether the president's going to have courage, are the republicans going to have courage to stand up for a constituency they played to?

>> that's what they were just saying, willie. republican leaders need to step out against this bill. >> well, what's been interesting is republican leaders in the state of arizona, their defense for the bill, whether it was the governor brewer there or john mccain on the floor of the senate yesterday, saying this is essentially a cry for help. we're throwing up this red flag to say we need the federal government to make a strict immigration law. otherwise we're going to have to take measures like this. >> so you're going to profile people and throw them under the bus as your cry for help. >> right. >> i think this could be taken care of pretty easily if the arizona state legislature just took out the offensive parts, the parts that say that if you look hispanic, then you have a chance of being pulled over by police officers. >> it violates the constitution. the constitution says equal protection under the law. it means if i look latino, i get a different set of circumstances than if i don't in the state of arizona. that's it. >> bit way, there is no doubt about it, there is also no doubt in my mind that if this case got to the united states supreme

court, it would be overturned 5-4, 6-3, maybe even 7-2. there is no doubt in my mind that this bill would be considered unconstitutional by the roberts court. >> but why should we take that long to get to the supreme court? >> i agree. >> many of us are taking steps now. because you know how many people can be harassed -- not only a prominent hispanic republican, imagine somebody's kids going out on the weekend, and you're worried to death all night if your kid is going to be pulled over and be detained. >> it's unbelievable. >> it's insane. >> for my conserve stif frienda also concerned about immigration like i have been for a long time, think about it. you're exactly right. put yourself in the position of one out of three legal citizens in arizona who are hispanics who now understand that when they walk outside with their children or -- i guess walking through a neighborhood, they are in danger. >> politically, on a purely political level, what's going on with republicans here on

everything at this point? because it seems to me there are some political decisions they could make right now that would make them look like leaders. >> well, listen. i'll tell you what. all you have to do is look at my twitter feed from yesterday, and i came on this show. and all i simply said was, i was offended by this portion of the bill. >> it's pretty easy to say. >> someone who's been really tough on illegal immigration since 1994. >> so same fact. does that mean you're not tough on immigration? >> somebody saying that somebody shouldn't be stopped and forced to be shown their papers because they look a certain way just got hate and vitriol from people saying i was a rhino, i wasn't a true conservative. if that's their definition of true conservative, they can have that in their 14% of the election next year. listen, i think they're being cynical. why didn't mitt romney -- and i'm just going to call out mitt because he's the front-runner. if you're the front-runner, you've got to answer these questions. why did he remain silent when glenn beck called the president

a racist? why did he remain silent on death panels in the summer? why did he remain silent when they talk about nazis and nazi imagery? why did he remain silent when, again, all of these irresponsible attacks were coming from the right? i don't know that obama called out all the hate speech against bush, but he should have. you know, where are they? they're playing it safe. they're letting this play itself out. and i think you're exactly right. now is the time for a republican leader to step forward and say, i want responsible, legal immigration reform, but this is just too much. >> i think, joe, though, in fairness to the president, and, you know, i don't necessarily agree with everything the president does, though i support him strongly on education, the president did take some very hard stands during the race. he took on some of the statements of his own pastor. i don't know what gets more personal than that. >> true. >> we're not talking about republicans doing the heavy lifting. we're talking about defending

the constitution and defending voters that they went into arizona and california and said, we're the better party. >> well, he could have called out his own side, democrats, when they used improper language during the health care debate, and there was some used. >> that's true. >> it doesn't matter. the point is either you're a leader or you're not. and it's at moments like this that is it is discovered. and i'm not seeing a lot of republicans from that. >> i'm not seeing a lot talking about it either. i can say this. if tom tancredo, who i'll admit has said some things offensive to me on illegal immigration, if tom tancredo can come out and say this is un-american, that should provide cover for a lot of republicans to follow tom tancredo's lead. >> if you need coverage on this. >> i think -- so i guess frank rich won't have to change the cartoon. >> stop. >> of the republican in the klan hoodsman that says "gop." or maybe country club -- white country club.

i don't know. they have the same cartoon or they run it every three weeks. >> also, real small government republican conservative, can you imagine anything worse than the government going around asking people for papers? >> i think what scares tancredo, i would guess ron paul would be against this, i would think any small government conservative or libertarian would be horrified by this concept. >> yeah. >> i think this is one of the moments that call for real leadership and leadership does not follow the trends. they set the trends, and i don't see it coming from the republican side. but i think those of us that come from a civil rights point of view see this as a real violation. and, again, this does not impact directly my base community, but it's wrong just like i went there nine years ago, we're going to arizona, because it's wrong and it can be carried over into any other state in this country. >> it's wrong. and something else, janet napolitano needs to step up and show leadership. if they don't step forward,

other states will. and there is a cynical presumption, by the way, in all the states over illegal immigration, somehow all hispanics are illegal immigration, that's just not the case. you look, 40%, 45% of hispanic-americans say they're very concerned about illegal immigration because guess what. that's taking jobs away from their children, from their spouses, from their family members. so, again, i think we can find -- >> this is not about illegal immigration. it's go the rights of american citizens. >> oh, we're clear on that. >> a lot of the african-american community is concerned about immigration. >> we are on the same page. >> we are talking about we cannot profile american citizens. >> i'm surprised that we're having this debate. >> is there any chance that this is not going to inflame hispa c hispanics across the country, whatever they think of illegal immigration, and bond them to the democratic party? is there any chance that won't happen? >> it depends, are the republicans going to stand up and speak out? >> the bill was signed friday. today's tuesday. i have not heard a single prominent republican speak out. >> it is time. >> this is ridiculous.

before we go to a break, six-time grammy award winner john legend, our friend, he's hung out here on the set of "morning joe." >> and you've hung out with him on airplanes. you and reverend sharpton fly around on private jets together with him. >> well, now. >> you were in coach and you were upset. >> i was back -- they put they back in the cargo. >> you were just fine. >> by a little drain. >> ridiculous. >> john legend. >> this is about john legend. now you, too, can win a chance to hang out with the music legend. just go to showmecampaign.org and enter john's show me campaign raffle. you could win a private dinner with john legend and two spots to play in his celebrity golf tournament and attend his private concert in new york this monday. tickets. >> and the importance of this, obviously, is he's doing such great things for charter schools. >> yes. >> you can help out charter schools. >> and tickets are just $2 each with a minimum purchase of five tickets. the raffle ends today. at 11:00. you've got a few hours.

act quickly. this is all to benefit john's show me campaign and it's an effort to end poverty. so join in that raffle. maybe you'll win something, too. reverend sharpton, thank you so much. >> reverend, thank you. >> thank you so much. say hi to mika. >> you okay? we're agreeing too much these days. >> i've got to see which one of us will be a game changer. >> maybe we both are. still ahead, senator claire mccaskill joins us. >> oh, my. she doesn't have nice things to say about you. >> "washington post" columnist eugene robinson and kerry kennedy. and after the break, this morning's developing headlines out of the white house. we'll check in with savannah guthrie from the north lawn. first, here's bill karins with a check on the forecast. >> as these tornado events happen, it takes ai while for the home video to get through the system. these are pictures from the carolinas on sunday. this guy had a tornado in his backyard blowing through. there was damage in south carolina as that twister headed on through. that's all over with. the cleanup continues today in

the deep south. the airports are looking just fine. we are looking at a little light rain in boston. so far, so good. no delays. the forecast looks pretty good. a little better than yesterday. the rain moves out. the rest of the country looks really nice. especially the middle of the nation where sunshine is the rule. that's a look at your tuesday weather. you're watching "morning joe" brewed by starbucks. national car rental knows i'm picky.

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hardly do we claim perfection in what we've written here, hardly. but we believe it's sound ideas that deal with these very issues that caused the problems in the first place. and what we need to do is to be able to debate those ideas. if my colleagues in this chamber, as many do, disagree, some think i've gone too far,

some think i haven't gone far enough, those are two maybe legitimate points. but how will we ever resolve it if i can't bring up the kind of bill to have the kind of debate that this chamber was designed to engage in? what's the point of having 100 seats here coming from 50 states when a major issue affecting our country cannot even be the subject of a debate? >> he is chris dodd. raising hell on the senate floor. the honorable gentleman from connecticut. >> my gracious. >> hopefully we're going to be able to run into him this saturday night at the white house. >> we will. i'm sure when we ask, he'll come on the show. there are important issues to talk about in washington. and we're doing the show. >> we have a special sunday morning show. and i know savannah guthrie, we've got savannah guthrie at the white house. >> yeah. >> she'll round it out. >> sure. >> let's bring in savannah guthrie at the white house. what's that, savannah? i'm sorry. >> reporter: no. why are you guys doing a show sunday morning? that is crazy. >> tell me about it. >> it's a wrap-up of the white

house correspondents dinner. chris, you told me that she's going to -- she's going to be on the show? >> yeah, i just assume if we're doing a show from the white house, she'd be there, right? >> white house correspondent. >> reporter: you won't even need me because you'll be here. you're all square. there's not even any room. do you know how small this space is? really, there's not room for three. >> just come from whatever party you're at. >> it is a question of logistics. told chris last night she could not come on sunday morning because she's going to still be partying. >> reporter: exactly. >> but i guess you'll party all the way through the night at this thing? i am too old. >> savannah, what are you wearing to the dinner? >> i'm wearing a tux, thanks for asking. >> reporter: i think coffee. get the after-dinner coffee. and go for hours after that. >> wow! >> she must be on drugs. let's just move on. we hope we'll see you sunday morning, savannah. >> i'm sure she'll be there.

she's just joking. >> i hope she is. so we've been talking a lot about illegal immigration. we've been talking about the arizona law. but before we go to that, let's talk about chris dodd on the senate floor. obviously very frustrated. republicans surprised a lot of people in the political world by just saying no to wall street reform. what's happening? >> reporter: well, they did. but i don't think anybody expects this moment to last. i mean, i thought that vote last night was politically expedient really for both parties. it allowed democrats to say, look, all we want to do is open debate. and here we have republicans obstructing again. by the same token, republicans were able to say, look, we stood in opposition. democrats want to continue bailouts. this culture of bailouts. and we firmly said no. and so now the action really begins. there's still negotiations going on behind closed doors. senator reid may bring it up for a vote as early as tomorrow. and most people think, look, in the end there's going to be a financial regulatory reform bill. republicans don't want to be seen or painted as on the side

of wall street here. and they've worked hard to kind of act like this bill is really about bailouts preserving the bailout culture. there are things they disagree with. but at the end of the day, everybody expects there will be a regulatory reform bill. >> republicans are running around saying this bill memorializes bailouts for the foreseeable future and oppose the bill. and then when the bill changes a little bit here or there, they end up supporting the bill. because the bill will still have these bailout provisions in it. >> reporter: well, i think -- i would not be shocked at all if that $50 billion fund, which was funded by the banks, actually, in the event that a big institution fails, will probably be jettysonned at the end of the day, and republicans will be able to say, look, we made this a better bill. we got rid of some of the objectionable parts. what i think is striking about this whole debate is everyboone knows that if an institution is so big that it poses a systemic

risk, the government will bail it out before it lets the economy collapse. so it's sort of a fallacy we're not preserving the bailout culture. everybody, republicans and democrats, would vote for it. >> everybody would. >> if there came an occasion when all of the smart people said, yeah. >> everybody but for a bailout again except for richard shelby. we'll be taubi intalking to ric because we love him. >> tomorrow. >> new poll out from "the washington post" shows by a 2-1 margin americans want stricter regulations on wall street. one of the reasons why, obviously, goldman sachs has been on the front page of the papers today. what does the white house want out of lloyd blankfein's testimony on capitol hill today? he is, after all, the ceo of the company that was one of barack obama's biggest campaign contributors in 2008. >> reporter: no question about that. i think democrats -- and not necessarily the white house which is trying not to touch this thing with a ten-foot pole.

this is an s.e.c. investigation that's been going on. but democrats on the hill, when these goldman charges came out, some of them seemed positively gleeful because they really feel that this provides them some political momentum. and so we're going to have that ritual we have on capitol hill where executives come up for a flogging, essentially, publicly. >> it's going to be ugly. kind of like "the daily rundown" every day when two people who hate each other come together for one hour. >> reporter: joe -- >> savannah, poor girl. >> savannah, really quickly, we've got to go. i've just got to ask you a quick yes or no. is the president going to touch immigration reform this year? >> reporter: i don't think so. i think he'll speak out on that arizona law. democrats also think that's a case where republicans have really overreached. they smell an opportunity. but look, there's not a bill right now. so even if they could, there's nothing to move forward with on immigration yet. i think it's going to be energy first and then they'll think about immigration in a serious way later. >> okay. that was a great yes or no.

>> you know what, though? she's practicing for sunday morning. >> reporter: i know. if by sunday you mean monday, yes. >> savannah, i need you there. come on. >> we'll see you sunday. 9:00 a.m. no, no, i'm saying, 9:00 a.m. today. "the daily rundown" in 17 seconds, chuck todd and savannah guthrie, "the daily rundown." they hate each other. coming up, democratic senator claire mccaskill joins us. >> she doesn't like you. >> we have to talk. i think we need to talk. also, ford motors has just released its first quarter earnings, and what a difference a year makes. >> wait a second. who's in there? is t.j. in there? okay. they wait for me to start wrapping and then they come to me. >> yeah, well -- >> dave wexler, the name's dave wexler. >> thank you, dave. >> oh, my. that was something. we'll bring you more "morning joe" when we come back. : so word's gettin' out that geico can help people save in even more ways -

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welcome back to "morning joe." just after 7:30 on the east coast. time for a quick look at some of today's top stories. ford motor company has just announced first quarter earnings of $2.1 billion. it's seen as another sign the economy is improving as people spend more on big-ticket items like cars. today's news is also a dramatic reversal from the same period last year when ford reported losses of 1.4 -- >> sththat is great news. >> it is a great news, but is it a sign of the economy or is it a sign they did a good job specifically? >> ford did a really good job. ford is a great american success story. we should all cheer. i think also, if you go through this morning, they went through reuters, ipad app. and you go down to earnings reports. all of the profits, all positive, everything's looking up. >> wow! that's great.

>> there are people that still don't have jobs, but again, this economy is slowly but surely stubbornly turning around. now moving on with the news here, scuffles broke out in the ukranian parliament today as opposition lawmakers pelted the speaker with eggs and set off smoke bombs. look, he has an umbrella, joe. the unusual display was meant to protest a new treaty allowing russia's navy to remain in the region until the middle of the century. despite the protests, both houses of the ukranian parliament approved the deal. >> and they did that in return for some sweetheart deals on oil and other items. and officials in california's santa clara county are looking to ban happy meal toys which they say lure children to eat unhealthy foods. true. >> no. >> no, true. >> they're educational. >> the proposal believed to be the first of its kind in the nation would outlaw free toys with any meal that has over 485 calories. you give a child a meal with all

this fat and 485 or more calories -- >> it's good for you. >> -- high levels of salt, sugar and fat. >> it's good for you. >> and a toy. you know what? seriously. that's what's wrong with this country. >> no, that is what's right with america. >> everything is wrong with this country can be pared down to that kind of thinking. >> you think it's more of a sad meal than a happy meal. >> it's a very sad meal. >> mika, i refer you to "the wall street journal." this is the personal "journal" right here. i refer you to an article at the bottom of the page. let's put it right in front of mika's case. a case for those extra ten pounds. some new research is showing to be a little overweight doesn't increase health risks, and there may be some benefits. >> let me tell you something. a little overweight? >> ten pounds? stop looking at my gut. overweight -- listen, overweight people are more likely than those of normal weight to die of cancer or cardiovascular

disease. i mean, this is great. and doctors -- >> morbidly obese is 30 pounds overweight or more, and most americans are. >> maybe you don't love these kids because it says here, doctors are saying a little extra weight may strengthen bones and as they age, women who are overweight often look younger than other women. >> "new york times," "dateline sunday," i believe it was, the article about how extra weight on your body can affect your joints, your bones. >> mika, you know what? >> your heart. >> your war against science must not. >> i care about our children's future and i care about the health of this country. and we talk about smoking like it's bad. >> no. >> we talk about other diseases like they're bad news. >> i don't want to talk about smoking like it's bad. i want to see evidence. we'll be right back with senator claire mccaskill and editor for reuters. we have one of the coolest new apps on the ipad. and don't forget, live on

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mika, look how beautiful you are. sitting there in your size 2 dress. we have all noticed your passion and dedication to good health, a strong and consistent message of better eating and more exercise. and i would like to say on behalf of all the middle-aged, overweight women in america,

just shut up! >> she does speak for women of america and a lot of men. >> please. >> like me. with us now from washington, senator claire mccaskill of missouri. >> my favorite person in the senate. >> amen. you know, mika hates science. i know you know there's been a war on science, senator mccaskill, but let me just speak for my people. that "the wall street journal" is saying a case for those ten extra pounds strengthens bones, doesn't drive up heart disease, and as they age, women who are overweight -- and i say some men -- actually look younger. so mika, you have a lot to worry about. >> claire -- >> if it was just ten, joe, i wouldn't worry. i've got a few more than ten i need to worry about. >> mika is just, though, she just is scrawny and drawn up, isn't she? >> she's beautiful. >> aren't you nice? >> she's beautiful. >> someday i'll tell you about my lifelong fight with food.

>> stop. that's just not the truth. >> mika, just shut up. >> shut up. >> so senator mccaskill, we also have with us -- look. perhaps the genius that put together this app on this i pip. we've already talked about it. chrystia freeland. >> editor at reuters. >> it is a great app, but i can't claim credit. >> you can't? >> it is. >> i would love to, but i'm afraid. >> halperin and i are ipad -- >> pioneers. >> -- pioneers. it really is. it's a great way to start your morning. so senator mccaskill, let's talk about the republicans. are they posturing on financial reform, or is this something much bigger? could financial reform, wall street reform, be killed? >> you know, for the life of me, i don't get it. i do not understand what they're doing. i guess they're figuring that america is so mad at washington that if they can somehow get us

to fail on this, the democrats will get the blame because we're in charge. i guess that's the strategy. you know, i think this is the most ridiculous notion that we are -- you know, this close to a bill, and they won't let us debate. they will not let us debate. this is really unprecedented. this notion -- >> they claim -- they claim that democrats are expanding the bailout culture. what do you say to republicans? >> well, you know, i mean, joe, think about this. in committee, they had filed 400 amendments, the republicans. the democrats worked all weekend to figure out how many of those amendments that they had no problem with. they show up on monday for the markup on the bill and don't even offer an amendment. tell me that they're trying in good faith to get a bill? i don't get that. >> that's fiair. >> and yet most people behind the scenes are telling us they'll end up supporting a bail. how do you rail against a bill for pushing bailouts and support

at the end of the day? >> i agree with you. i think that the republicans went into this thinking that financial reform would be like health care. and i think we've had a real surprise. i think that poll you cited from "the washington post" is really important. i think that there is really strong popular support for financial reform. and the s.e.c. goldman suit which, you know, i don't believe the very popular wall street conspiracy theory about that, but i think it's helped to focus people's minds on credit derivatives and people might see that that can be dangerous for the system. >> senator mccaskill and chrystia, i'd like to ask you both, though, the bill isn't that great, is it? i mean, it doesn't really prevent the problem and really only has this sort of after reaction that isn't really -- doesn't have that many teeth. i would like to see debate on this so that it could be better and stronger. do you agree? >> you know, i think blanch lincoln's chapter on derivatives is very strong. and people need to understand, it's going to be very interesting. i'm on the committee today where the goldman sachs executives are going to testify. >> interesting.

>> it's going to be really, really interesting to see how they justify these synthetic cdos. now, let me translate what synthetic cdo means. it means we made up something that people can bet on. that's what it means. >> uh-huh. >> there's no societal benefit. they're not raising capital for a business. they are just creating something so people can bet on it with less regulation than las vegas. so, obviously, the derivatives chapter is very important for regulation and also being able to bust up these banks and sell them off if they get upside down. >> could i hire senator mccaskill? that was a very good description. >> she's good. >> of synthetic cdos. well done. >> let me ask you, chrystia, about mika's biggest complaint, and that is that it doesn't break up the banks. that even after this bill passes, we still have five or six financial institutions. that if they go belly up, we're going to have to bail them out. or the economy will go under much like it did after lehman brothers. >> well, there is, as you know, a heated debate about whether

too big to fail is actually the heart of the problem. i'm on the side that says too big to fail is a great phrase. but actually not really the central issue. and lehman is a good example of that. lehman actually wasn't the biggest institution. and lehman going broke caused these massive structural problems. if you look at some other banking systems which prove to be stable in the crisis, for example, canada has a much more consolidated financial industry than the u.s. and actually, the american financial industry is pretty fragmented. america has lots of small banks. i don't think the core of the problem is the banks were too big. i think the core of the problem is the banks were allowed to take on too much risk and credit derivatives, i think, were a big issue, too. >> senator mccaskill, then, if chrystia -- if what chrystia's saying is right, then why not reinstate the bill and make sure they can't branch out too much in areas where perhaps they

would be taking too much risk? is that the right way of putting it? >> well, the bottom line is if this bill were in place, when lehman started to go under, the regulators would have moved in, broken it up and sold it off, and the money to do that would have come from the banks, not from taxpayers. that's what would have happened. and it was, in fact, the failure of lehman that began the domino impact that frankly brought our economy to its knees. so that's what we're trying to do here. and also, obviously, make sure that we get these ridiculous derivatives out into the sunshine, that we're sure that we deal with the conflicts of interest. think about this for a minute. everybody on wall street was creating these things to bet on. and many of them were pushing products out that they were betting against. now, that's just a ridiculously immoral situation that we have to bring to a close. and the other thing this bill does is it wakes the s.e.c. up out of their coma. they have been in a coma for the

last decade, along with the ratings industry. >> yes. >> they all -- >> they've been looking at porn. >> -- are being -- we're grabbing them by the neck tie and saying, wake up and do your job. >> hey, really quickly, mark halperin, does this bill pass in the end? do republicans km s come on bo? >> i think it passes with a lot of republican votes. you're an observer of human nature. do you think some of your republican colleagues are getting close to panic? >> i can't tell. you know, i was really surprised when they did that yesterday, especially some of my colleagues i work with all the time in the centrist kind of mode. you know, senator collins and senator snowe are two good examples of people i work with constantly to try to find that middle. i was really surprised. i mean, the bottom line is the american people need to pay attention. they are banking that the american people aren't paying close enough attention and are just going to say washington's a mess. throw all the bums out. and since the democrats are in

charge, throw more of them out than us. that's what they're banking on. >> senator claire mccaskill. >> you are my favorite person in the senate. she's so great. even after the incident. >> thank you so much. coming up next, we've got kerry kennedy talking about one of our favorite charities. >> absolutely. you're watching "morning joe" brewed by starbucks. national car rental knows i'm picky. so, at national, i go right past the counter... and you get to choose any car in the aisle. choose any car? you cannot be serious! okay. seriously, you choose. go national. go like a pro.

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it's a tasty, nutritious way to make this number go up... and help this one go down. v8. what's your number? under this new law, people can be pulled over, made to show immigration papers and sent back to mexico. they even forced one guy to move his talk show on tbs from 11:00 to midnight. did you know that? >> is the late night jokes just never end. all right. with us now let's bring in kerry kennedy here to talk about the organization's fourth annual online spring auction at rfk center.org. kerry, thanks for being with us. >> nice to have you back to you. always have the greatest

auction items. what can i wid on this year? >> coming to see you right here on "morning joe." how about that? >> let's bid on that. >> that's top on my list. >> what else do you have? because if that's top on your list, you're in big trouble. >> you can go see chris matthews. you can go to the oprah show and meet her after the show. >> that's cool. are you serious? >> that's a lot of fun. >> i'm bidding on that. >> her last show so you've got to do that. >> what's the top bid so far? >> the top bid i think is $15,000 to go see oprah. >> i love it. what else do you have in. >> let's see. you can go see justin bieber backstage. very cool. >> your daughter, carly. >> i need to make that happen for carly or i'm in big trouble. >> that's very big, as well. >> very good. >> i would guess justin bieber who i have no idea who he is, but i know the kids love him. >> he has an interesting hairdo that i think would look good on you. >> probably not a rfk fan.

was there a family member associated? >> there are a lot of grandchildren. five grandchildren. >> great. >> ben stiller, be in the next ben stiller movie. and there is one week internship with vogue and then go meet anna win tower. so that's a career starter. >> my gosh. >> in hard economic times to do that. >> so talk about what the organization does. when somebody contributes other than seeing and meeting really cool people. >> like you. >> no. i said cool people. >> like oprah. >> like oprah. >> what does the money do? not only in america but around the world? >> right. we work on international human rights issues. we're doing a lot of work on haiti right now, trying to assure that the aid that goes to haiti is done with transparency and local participation. we're doing a lot of work in zimbabwe with women of zimbabwe

arise. women's organization there. we do work in western sahara on political rights, right to free expression. so there's -- we work around the order with people who are sort of the martin luther kings of their countries and we help them create change and social justice on the ground. >> when did your father -- at what point in your father's career, because he was castigated by democrats as being too harsh and too conservative and too tough. when did the great change come? >> well, you know, there's kind of this myth about him that when his brother died, he went through -- he went from being very, very harsh right wing republican to a liberal democrat. but that's not actually the case. he did become at that time, he became much more of an advocate for people living in poverty across our country and around the world. but if you go back and read his

speeches during the justice department years, you'll see that he had this tremendous amount of compassion and concern for people who are struggling in our country and around the world. >> all right. kerry, thanks. >> thank you, kerry. >> can you come back over the next couple weeks and give us an update? >> i would love to. thank you very much. >> bid online. >> because that way we can say we're trying to help but we can monitor this justin bieber thing. >> i want to get the oprah. >> people paying to be with you. >> i want to get on the oprah thing. >> my mother bids on it. >> spring auction at rfk center.org. coming up next, austin goolsbee. with expedia, when you book your flight and hotel

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♪ welcome back to "morning joe." it's the top of the hour. let's go to chicago right now and talk to the white house economic adviser who has been labeled in the midwest after his last "morning joe" appearance mr. vat tax. i speak of austan goolsbee. >> give me a break. >> i love it. >> that's not how you start show. >> so you agree with as you tan. >> it is inevitable. there will be a v.a.t. i predict there will be a v.a.t. in the united states by 20. >> if as you tan has his way by 2010. >> you want to talk about the v.a.t. or your visit to the canadian consulate. >> now mark's going to get me back. some guy sitting there at a typewriter.

he didn't deny that he wasn't considering a v.a.t. >> austan you believe in it because you're an honest economist. >> hey, we've been through this. i've been through this v.a.t. gimmick over and over. i'm not getting into this. >> for the record, austan we were joking about this because the last time he was on, austan opposed the v.a.t. in every way imaginable and some people still figured out a way to write a story saying austan goulsbee would not deny. >> never technically deny it had. >> how many times you said no like 14 times. i said, well what, if they put a bow on top of the v.a.t. and give bunny rabbits? no, i'm still against it. thank you so much for being with us. we want to talk to you about what's going on on capitol hill and today, a big fight. >> absolutely, and also joining the conversation along with chrystia freeland and mark halperin live from capitol hill,

independent senator from vermont, bernie sanders. i loved your letter to the editor in the times" this weekend. it was great. very good to see you, senator. we'll get to you in a moment. >> let's start first with the news. >> senate democrats remain confident they will be able to push through financial reform despite failing to get the 60 votes needed to start debate on the measure. yesterday gop members stood firm voting unanimously to block the legislation from reaching the senate floor. republicans maintain there are still too many problems with the bill saying it would guarantee future bailouts wall street barnes, and create new bureaucracies. but democrats are indicating they will not budge. >> hardly do we claim perfection of what we've written here, but we believe it's sound ideas that deal with these very issues that caused the problems in the first place. and what we need to do is to be able to debate those ideas. if my colleagues in this chamber as many do disagree, some think i've gone too far, some thing i

haven't gone far enough. those are two maybe legitimate points but how are we ever going to resolve it if i can't bring up the bill to have the kind of debate that this chamber was designed to engage in? what's the point of having 100 seats coming from 50 states when a major issue affecting our country cannot even be the subject of a debate? >> we have the capacity as a country to create capital and credit in a very aggressive way so that entrepreneur who are willing to go out and take risks have access to capital and credit and that creates jobs and that creates the dynamics of our economy. and we shouldn't put in place a regulatory regime that overly reacts and as a result significantly dampens our capacity to have the most vibrant capital and credit markets in the world. >> senator sanders, republicans claim that this financial reform bill institutionalizes a culture

of bank bailouts. are they right? >> i just heard senator gregg's comments and it's like what world are you living in? these are the guys led by people like senator gregg who deregulated wall street. they said that wall street should be able to do anything they want. and when wall street ended up acting under incredible greed and recklessness and illegal behavior, now they're worried about government bureaucracy that will reregulate wall street. what a pile of nonsense. of course, we've got to reregulate wall street. judd gregg talks about getting capital out to entrepreneurs. what world is he living in? every small businessperson that i'm talking about is saying we can't get the affordable loans we need. that is precisely what is choking our economy today. to my view, of course we have to have that debate. dodd is right and we have to pass under line real wall street

reform. >> austan goolsby, does this bill as republicans are claiming institutionalize a culture of bank bailouts in the future? >> no, of course, not. we've talked about this before, joe. you know, the bill specifically outlaws bailouts. you can only -- there's only money for funeral expenses and it requires any company that gets in trouble to be liquidated or broken into pieces and sold off and the management fired and shareholders wiped out. it is interesting the shift they started by saying it was a bailout bill and now they're saying well, it's the culture of bailout bill and next they'll say it's the hint of a culture of a bailout bill. in the meantime, they won't bring it to the floor. what's happening is that a small group of republicans is wanting to keep it in the back room where they can cut some back room loopholes and then say that they were for reform. and the administration's view has been, we're not going to do that in the back room. let's debate the issues out in public.

the problem has been it's been in the back room. >> i agree we should have debate. i also agree there's been some hypocrisy on the republican side but austan doesn't this bill and what we're not debating right now, it doesn't do anything preventive. it's all in reaction to the next collapse. it doesn't prevent it. do you agree? >> i don't think i agree with that. there are a number of things that are specifically designed to try to prevent both collapses like the one that just happened, but also prevent new things that we haven't yet figured out. so creating a systemic risk council that's going to look at what are the risks coming down the pipe, creating the strongest consumer protection that we've ever had in this country, those are elements that are specifically designed to give them flexibility to identify future crises or future threats that could get us into this. and then ending the loopholes that allow $600 trillion of

derivatives to trade in the shadows without regulation, that's pretty important as a preventive measure. >> mark pal halperin is here. senator sanders, he's got a question for you. >> clearly the goldman sachs executives are going to get tough questioning today. we already know a lot of facts from newspapers and other plays what happened. what do you want to hear from them? what do you think could productivitively come out of the hearing today. >> it doesn't matter what they say. i don't really believe much of what they have to say. getting back to the question does this bill go far enough. frankly, it doesn't. we have four major financial institutions in this country that have assets of over $700 trillion which is more than half of the gdp in america. you want to prevent future bailouts, you've got to break these guys up, not only from a too big to fail perspective and taxpayer liability but from an economic competitive perspective.

does anybody in your room feel comfortable that four or six financial institutions all of which have grown in recent years have so much economic power over the lives of the american people? >> austan, that is something that has concerned mika especially but myself, as well. you've got six institutions that have over half of this nation's gdp in their control. that just seems to be a prescription for trouble in the future. >> well, look, i'd say two things about that. the president's obviously concerned about concentration in the financial business as well as in the rest of business. he's been aggressive on his anti-trust enforcement for many years he's been calling for ta. let us separate, however, for just one second when you're thinking about financial regulatory reform, the crisis began not among the biggest of the financial institutions, but among the most dangerous. so aig, lehman brothers, bear stearns, they weren't the biggest.

they were just ones that were going to blow up and destroy the world. so the first thing that we must do is defang a lot of these institutions. now, we must also look at the issue of too big to fail on the big side and on the fail side i guess is the way i'm saying it. so the president has called for caps on how large the biggest financial institutions can get. but also a series of things to defang them and make them less dangerous like the volcker rule to end conflicts of interest and get them out of risky trading for their own accounts like the trying to get the distributes out of the shadows so they can't threaten to blow up the aigs of the world. >> can i ask you one quick question? at the 11th hour, blanche lincoln added a really important provision to the bill which was the idea that government guaranteed banks should not be allowed to trade derivatives. that would be really, really radical. or are you planning to trade that away for republican support?

>> well, as i say, i don't know a whole lot about legislative strategy. fortunately, i'm not over there. i know the lincoln bill had five or six different provisions that differed from the dodd bill. >> uh-huh. >> fundamentally, we were happy that both of those are getting the derivatives out of the shadows, the $600 trillion unregulated market out of the shadows and into the light. now my understanding they are negotiating about this provision that you say about swaps dealers within banks and a number of other provisions, but the president's main focus has not been on those specific provisions but unsatisfied on let's make sure that it gets the derivatives out of the shadows. so i think we'll be okay with that. >> we appreciate your coming on the show this morning. this is very complicated. we appreciate it. talk to you soon. senator sanders, what in this bill, explain, and i haven't

heard the numbers. what is the capsize on banks that is being discussed here? is there something that prevents a bank -- because they are bigger now. >> no, i don't believe that is the case, and in fact, what we have seen amazingly enough is since the collapse of wall street and the bailouts, three out of the four largest wall street firms have, in fact, consolidated and acquired and have become even larger. >> why is that? >> well, what happened is they, some of the big ones picked up some of the countrywide for example was absorbed into another financial institution. so when you have a big one going down, it's only the very big ones that can absorb them. that's what we've seen. >> aren't we in a position again, senator sanders, if one of these big institutions, one of these six big institutions fail, we're in the same exact position we were on september 15th. >> worse. >> when lehman brothers went down and for a few days over that very long weekend, there were some people thinking we

were going to have to bail out everybody from merrill lynch and bank of america to morgan chase, you name it. even goldman sachs. >> i would say the we're in a worse position because the very biggest have become even bigger. getting back to the point that somebody on the show just made. when you have a handful of financial institutions that have assets of more than half of the gdp of this country and if one of them goes down, of course you're going to have to bail them out. you have to break them up. second of all, austan talked about consumer protection. we're fighting for a cap on credit rates on credit cards and banks should not be charging people 25 or 30% interest rates. i think we have a shot to win is transparency at the fed. during the bailout, trillions of dollars of 0 interest loans were

lent to the large institutions. you don't know what they did with the money. i think the american people have a right to know. >> i want to ask you a question around the table. if in fact and i think bernie sanders and mika and i agree we're very troubled by the size of these six banks, chrissia, you say that's not so big of a problem but if we're going to live with six banks controlling 70% of this country's gdp, then doesn't it make sense to pass a volcker rule to make sure at least they babe in a more conservative manner? >> i absolutely agree. i think, and this is a little more technical but in addition to the volcker rule, i think the more important aspect is. >> quickly. >> okay. you need. >> the volcker rule stops banks from basically being casinos. >> exactly. they can't be hedge funds or have private equity internally. that's the bake idea of the rule. it's really complicated. i think the main issue is you have to have limits on how much

risk government guaranteed banks can have. the casino function from the utility function. >> let me just say this. i agree with that, but this is the essence of the issue. the issue is whether wall street remains a world unto itself engaged in gambling and making very rich people even richer or they become part of the productive economy, help small and medium sized businesses create real jobs for american workers. that is the $64 question. >> and how does that play up politically in the campaign trail, park. >> i think for real people what's important because they're never going to understand this they're too busy is trust is restored that wall street is a valuable and productive part of the american economy, not a casino where rich people can get rich and take ricks and if they overbet and take unfeyericks and undue risks, the american people don't suffer. that is politically what the white house should accomplish and what republicans should be for too. >> willie geist, the new york angle of this story, obviously,

mayor bloomberg and a lot of the new yorkers understand that by allowing hedge funds and banks and chopping up these cdos, that actually increases profits to such a degree that it helps new york's economy and certainly helps people down on wall street. they don't want to give that up and become more conservative. >> mayor bloomberg has been very cautious about this. he doesn't want to cost new york city jobs and trying to fight the public caricature of wall street as the guy with the top hat and mon cal. there are thousands of people employed by wall street although he agrees that something has to be done to change the culture. >> you talked about that in your book before this actually happened. >> my point was that actually there's nothing conservative about allowing a group of institutions that were responsible for a crash in 1987, the asian crash in '97, long-term capital in '98, the

dotcom bust in 2000, enron 2001, worldcom 2002. fannie and freddie 2003, 2004, then go to 2008. let me continue the litany. i mean 2008 bear stearns and lehman brothers for conservatives to say that the status quo is conservative seems to be to be a bit radical. and i think that's where senator sanders, i think that's where a hell of a lot of the americans are saying make all the profits you want to make but make them responsibly and don't drag us down when you fail. >> that's right. no, that is exactly right. and i think, you know, with all due respect to pair bloomberg or anybody else, its not in the best interests of millions of people in new york city to give so much power to a small group of people whose only function in life is to make as much money as they can as quickly as they can in any way that they can. we need a wall street to invest in america and get us out of

this recession. >> okay. so before you go, since you've spoken so plainly and practically here, senator, do you think that all the different contributions that have come to washington from wall street are playing a role in this bill being weak? >> and do i think the sun will rise in the morning and the night will come tonight. come on now. they spent $300 million last year. they spent billions to get deregulation. they're all over this place. of course, money plays a huge role. >> okay, bernie sanders outnumbered on capitol hill. >> i love him. senator sanders, thank you very much. up next a politico exclusive. mike allen goes behind the scenes with gold bhan can bes and their game plan for today's testimony on capitol hill. tensions boiling over in arizona. eugene robinson says they have a right to demand border control from washington. >> check out this image. this get your attention and everyone else's. this is from nasa, a satellite

picture of the gulf coast. as i zoom in on it, this is the oil slick off the coast. this is the mississippi delta that comes down here. you can see this is in other words up here in the left portion of your screen just to show you how big the slick is from space. that story continues. forecast today, simple. some showery weather up in new england. northern new england is going to get a snowstorm later on tonight. the southeast okay, just some showers through kentucky and tennessee. much of the west, be prepared for airport delays because of strong gusty winds. you're watching "morning joe" on this tuesday brewed by starbucks. we're with you when you're saving for your dreams.

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♪ this guy right here walking down the street looks fine, right? >> i guess he looks fine. >> he is. but what about this guy? >> fine? >> no, he's not. he's reasonably suspiciously illegal. all right. let's try it again. this guy. >> whoa, no, yes, that's jeffrey dahmer! he's a cannibal and a killer. he is obviously suspicious. you have to arrest him. >> no. isn't.hitler's germany. you can't just pull people off the street for being hungry. john, i'm going to give you one

more final chance. >> all right. >> what do you do? what do you do? >> you arrest her. >> just her? >> you arrest the monkey too. >> why, because he's gay? you disgust me. >> no. that was. >> i love it. >> i've always suspected boots the monkey whenever i watch videos with my daughter. >> what about swiper? >> it is morning. >> there is no doubt that boots is happy. very happy guy. >> boots is adorable. >> i love boots. >> so is dora. >> here with us now the chief political correspondent for polittle comike allen. goldman sachs executives going to be up on the hill today defending the bank it used the strategy to profit from the housing meltdown. what kind of a scoop can you give us on what they're going to say? >> the executives are approaching this like a campaign, started a rapid

response website. they've hired not only greg craig but also mark fabiani, one of the big spinners during clinton administration can dales. he's whispering in the ear of the financial press. and we're finding that they're going to take an aggressive line today, the ceo lloyd blankfein is going to have conciliatory passages and start out by saying here's what an investment bank is. we understand not everybody gets why what we do is important. this is what we meant. just moments ago we got the testimony of the 31-year-old, the one everyone's waiting for. fabulous fab as he goes by, the vice president accused in this. he's going to say that there was no incentive for goldman to design this transaction to lose. that they also were exposed in it, and he's going to say that -- he's going to blame the victims a bit here. in fact, he's going to blame the

victims clearly and say the two investors that the s.e.c. seized on were two of the most sophisticated institutional investors there are, that he didn't deal with any individual or retail investors. but basically these are people who have should have known better. >> i think that's the best defense. again, they're not dealing with dupes on the street. if somebody wades into goldman sachs and decides to bet on these very complex financial instruments, they know what they're doing, and they took a gamble and they gambled that the market was going to go up. it went down. for them now to be wringing their hands saying we were duped. >> they're not the guys wringing their hands. it's the s.e.c. that raise this had, not these duped investors. the s.e.c. is also saying it wasn't quite that simple and that the fabulous fab talked to the guy on the other side of the trade and let him help choose what was going to go into this black box that the poor old

germans were asked to buy. >> is it true, chrystia, on wall street these things are an open secret where you have a bet coming in this way and send it out the other door without telling the other party. >> everyone knew that goldman was doing that but everybody else was doing that. you have to do that. people also knew that goldman was betting against its clients. an interesting aspect here is the business side of this. if goldman is going to say look, our clients were idiots and it's not our fault that they were idiots, who's going to want to be hair client. >> there's a different way to say betting against. you often find banks on both sides of the trade. >> they figured out goldman sachs has the smartest people in the business and they figured out before most people that they were overexposed when it came to mortgages. so what does a ceo do do when he finds out he's he ever exposed. he hedges his bet.

if he does not do that, he would have lost other clients billion of dollars. >> he would have lost money for himself. that's who they were hedging. they were smarter than any of the big firms. >> he would have lost money for goldman sachs and a lot of his clients, too. either way they went. they figured out early though that this market was overexposed and they were overexposed. what do you do when you're overexposed? you buy insurance. >> the question is did they pest lead investors. hey, thanks so much, mike allen. appreciate it. coming up, another big day of earnings. a check on business before the bell with cnbc's erin burnett and don't forget to tune in, we've made a graphic, a special sunday edition of "morning joe" this sunday, we'll have a complete wrap-up of the white house correspondents dinner that will have concluded about an hour before we go on the air. >> i guarantee you two of the three people in that picture will still be drunk by the time

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let's get a check of business before the bell with cnbc's international superstar. she is erin burnett live at the new york stock exchange. erin, you know, i'm looking at my reuters ipad app and i'm just seeing one profit after another after another. things may be turning around in this country. >> you have an ipad already? >> i have an ipad. i need another one though. >> all right. so yes, earnings continue to cross the big one, joe, is ford. ford coming out with a profit, and this is pretty important, yes, we know they've done better than everybody else and turping a profit recently. in and of itself, that isn't the headline but this is. they had a profit in north america. it used to be when it was doing okay it was because they were overseas and terrible in the united states but not this time. by the way, overall sales at ford were up 15% but in china, sales were up 84%. now, yes, it's a lower base.

ford is not the big player in china. gm actually is. but that just goes to show you, and china is the world's largest car market now so. >> is ford a success story that all americans should stand up and cheer? >> you will you. >> you think they should although you want to make sure their product continues to be good. you can sand up and cheer and then they get lazy. >> the great thing is i guess last week we heard gm was repaying its loan to the government, part of it. >> using the government's loan money to pay back the loan. >> let's not get too technical here. she is so negative. she's not exactly bullish on detroit but in all the news reports. >> i just think when they get a lot of. >> we heard about the competition they were facing and it was nice to hear for once that gm wasn't being undercut by toyota or nissan, but in fact, their biggest challenge was ford. another american car company. >> i hear you on that. from the patriotic point of view, it's a fair point. but gmac owes $40 something

billion to the federal government and never going to pay that back. that's the truth. who wants to hear that? can i say one quick thing on goldman sachs? >> yes. >> attorney general andrew cuomo, we're waiting as everyone from goldman is going to be parading in washington. we have called him 50 times. he has not given a statement. he has given zero statements about goldman sachs since the charges 11 days ago. he has given five statements about other things including this, queen's nurse accused of knocking patient out of wheelchair and stealing medication. >> how could the attorney general of the state of new york not offer one statement on the goldman sachs scandal? >> i don't know, he has made five statements on things from wheelchair cases to $100,000 dollars of restitution because of car dealer issues. my producer has called at least 50 times. >> unbelievable. that could be the problem be.

>> we'll keep calling. >> coming up next, we're going to discuss arizona's controversial new immigration law with pulitzer prize winner and friend of "morning joe," eugene robinson next in our political roundtable straight ahead. tdd# 1-800-345-2550 i thought investment firms were there tdd# 1-800-345-2550 to help with my investments. tdd# 1-800-345-2550 if i could change one thing... tdd# 1-800-345-2550 we'd all get a ton of great advice tdd# 1-800-345-2550 just for being a client. tdd# 1-800-345-2550 i mean, shouldn't i be able to talk about my money tdd# 1-800-345-2550 without it costing me a fortune?

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♪ >> i do not want the police

here, there, arizona, any place else pulling people over because you look like you should be pulled over. >> holy [ bleep ]. he thinks you've gone too far, arizona. tom tancredo. the man mexican parents tell their kids about to get them to eat their vegetables. >> wow. >> that was great. >> that's a good point. with us now from washington associate editor and pulitzer prize winning columnist for the "washington post," eugene robinson who takes on the arizona immigration law in his op-ed peas today. he writes this arizona is dealing with a real problem and is right to demand that washington provide a solution but the new immigration law isn't a solution at all. it's more like an act of vengeance. the law makes latino citizens and legal residents vulnerable to arbitrary harassment, and it is an utter disgrace. >> eugene, it looks like arch

conservative tom tancredo agrees with you. >> right, if this law goes too far for tom tancredo, then you know i'm on the side of the angels here really, really. this is a fascinating issue, and you have to have some sympathy for the people of arizona. they have been screaming for years and years and not just for republicans, not just xenophobes of which there are many in arizona or or some at least. but talk to democrats like janet napolitano, phil gordon, the mayor of phoenix, and they've been trying to get washington's attention and saying look, this is a massive problem out here. we really need to do something. and it's getting out of hand. i think this law shows it getting out of hand. >> talk to latinos. a lot of surveys, almost 50% of latinos think illegal immigration is a real problem because guess what, illegal immigrants take jobs from legal

immigrants. illegal immigrants take jobs from american citizens who happen to be latinos. this is a problem for all americans. my god, we don't answer that problem by pulling somebody over because of how they look. >> no, that's ridiculous. i mean, there is a fundamental, another kind of fundamental element of this whole equation which is that if people didn't hire illegal immigrants, there would be no reason for them to come here. >> exactly. why don't we police the businesses that are more prone to hire the illegal immigrants so if you have someone working illegally, then you can actually deport them for that reason and not because they don't look right walking down the street, according to some cop. >> right. and we've made only half-hearted efforts to do anything like that. meanwhile and look, you know me, i mean, i'm you know an old softie about most things but do you have to have control of your border. which we don't now.

and you know, why have people here in this town pretended, just pretended to listen to what arizonans have been saying for years, but cannot stir themselves to actually do anything? >> gene, you brought up janet a napolita napolitano. now in charge of homeland security. we've got a war erupting on the border of arizona and new mexico and texas. we hear juarez is the most dangerous city in the world now. and yet, homeland security is not doing enough for residents there, as well. >> well, you know, that's an interesting question. what should be the role of homeland security there. that whole border area, you've got different problems different places. the ciudad juarez drug cartel problem is a specific thing that is not just dangerous but deadly on a daily basis.

and that needs to be dealt with one way. arizona's main problem isn't that. it's just this pretty constant flow. >> thousands and thousands of illegal immigrants flowing across the border, and as things get more dangerous south of the border, that causes -- we need to say this, first of all. a few years ago in the middle of the immigration debate, america's economy was doing very well. there were an awful lot of illegal immigrants flooding to america. that number has dropped by 15 to 20%, gene, in the past few years because the jobs have dried up. >> it has. so the flow has slowed down. and that has, you know, in a sense given arizona and the other affected areas a bit of a break, but not all that much. i mean, at the height of the boom, the numbers coming -- phoenix was kind of the first stop for just the first stop of choice for people who wanted to come into the country without

papers. and you know, you go to mexican consulate in the morning and you'd see huge crowds of people, and you bet your bottom dollar that a small minority of those people really had the papers they should have had to come into the country. so, of course, people were frustrated. it's just that this is not the answer. this is too radical for tom tancredo. >> yes. >> i have a question for joe and for gene actually, which is joe, you pointed out really crucially that the economic environment is really different now from the way it was the last time immigration was front of mind for the u.s. with unemployment at 9.7% is, this going to turn out to be a great issue for the republicans? >> you know, i think because of the overreach in arizona, it's going to be an issue they'll want to stay away from. here's the political reality. the demographic reality is

during off year elections the voters are older and they're whiter. and they tend to want a tougher stand on illegal immigration. >> especially maybe if they don't have a job right now or worried about it. >> especially if they don't have a job. i've got to say if 15 to 20% of the illegal immigrants have gone back to mexico if in fact that's where they're coming from through the arizona, texas, new mexico borders, this would seem to be a good way to take care of a significant part of the problem by having tougher border enforcement. so when the economy turns around, a lot of the illegal immigrants don't get back in. >> i would agree with that, joe. i would also say politically, don't underestimate the ability of this issue to galvanize more latino voters than you would think. on the one hand they may say we're against illegal immigration but the idea that i'm going to be pulled over just because i look latino and my

family's been here for generations, that's not going to sit well with people. >> mark halperin has a two-word warning for republicans who think they can demagogue this issue. those two words, wilson, wilson. wilson pete. >> eugene, thank you very much. >> check that story on what happened to the republican party in california. thanks, eugene. you're great. >> coming up, a new documentary that takes aim -- what's around the corner is one of life's great questions. and while it can never be fully answered, it helps to have a financial partner like northern trust. by gaining a keen understanding of your financial needs, we're able to tailor a plan using a full suite... of sophisticated investment strategies and solutions. so whatever's around the corner can be faced with confidence. ♪

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currently, corporations in the charter industry hire their own accountants to produce the financial statements that are disclose to the public. lest we forget, enron hired its own accountants to produce the audits it showed to investors. we must ask if self-regulation in the charter industry is the best way to safeguard taxpayers' money. >> enron? >> he just, our friend, bill berkun just compared the charter schools that are helping young african-american and hispanic students in the bronx and harlem and brooklyn compete with the richest schools in westchester and just compared them to enron? unbelievable. >> we told everyone we were going to film that hear ang we did. the fight over charter schools heating up. supporters and critics clashed during the public hearing last thursday in new york. advocates want more choice for

students. while critics are calling for more oversight and transparency. here with us to explore the divide between public education and charter schools is documentary filmmaker and director of the cartel, bob bowden who exposes the emotions that run high in spots for a charter school. take a look at a clip. >> number 68, sevila johnson. >> what does this mean to you guys? >> it means the greatest opportunity that could ever come to my daughter's life. >> they have a chance. they have a chance. >> as happy as these mothers are -- >> 166, 38th on the waiting list. diana. >> i also saw faces like this. >> 167, 39th on the waiting list, ariel montecino. 16. >> that's one of the saddest parts of what we've seen.

mika, when we are looking at what's happening in charter schools in new york is that a number drawn could make the difference and many times makes the difference between a young girl like that being able to follow her dreams and being trapped in a school system that will leave her where her parents were and her grandparents were. it is -- it's devastating. we thank you so much for being with us. tell us about the cartel. >> this is a film i've been working 2 1/2 years on. if you need qualification on schools serving kids well, take a look at that scene. this hearing they should have watched the movie before making those statements compared to enron. it's unconscionable. >> what is the problem with ber kins and others? i'm sorry. >> billions of dollars at stake. >> i can't be objective and fair here or nice. >> what's explain, you know what this comes down to, mika?

it comes down to patronage jobs that people can pass around to friends and relatives and it comes down to billions of dollars that the cartel as you call the unions control. >> look, there are great public teachers. my mother was a public school teacher. had i great teachers. i wrote two years later saying how much they impacted me. and you can't study this topic and not know from that. to say you can never fire a teacher, essentially a guaranteed job for life, who how many small businessperson, anyone who worked for me for three years, i hope you keep work. if you decide to phone it in, i'll never fire you. it's a pro pros pos terrous system. >> it's not about the children suffering in the film. it is about the proj patronage jobs and the billions of dollars that gets passed around. in new jersey where chris christie is getting hammered, new jersey spends $17,000 per student. >> in some cities a lot more

than that. we show examples where it's over $400,000 per classroom being spent in new jersey schools and yet very little reaches teacher salary. a lot of people vote for budgets to be higher because of their sensitivity to teachers. they don't realize how little money reaches them. >> you've got the president of the united states supporting breaking up these cartels. you've got the secretary of education who wants to break up the cartels. al sharpton, newt ging rip, you name it, bipartisan support. most americans want to break up the cartel and yet the cartel is so powerful, people are scared to touch it. >> it's campaign contributions to mostly state legislators. no child left behind is a big subject but really education is mostly a state and local issue. that's where the decisions are made. it's mostly state legislators that receive a lot of union campaign contributions and let's face it, a lot of them are bout off. >> no doubt about it. >> we have a rally in trenton coming up this thursday at 6:00

p.m., a free rally for people that support education reform. the movie is opening in eight cities friday through sunday opening weekend, chicago. the cartel movie.com. chicago, boston, weigh, philly, denver, san francisco. >> great work. >> thank you for being with us. we're going to have you on my radio show on wavc. we want to talk about it because we have a lot of people in new jersey who lis it on the show. and they need to hear this story. >> we'll be right back. [ whistl] [ dog barking ] [ sniffing ] [ male announcer ] missing something? like 2 pairs of bifocals for $149.99 at sears optical, with progressive lenses for just $25 more per pair. hurry in to sears optical today and don't miss a thing.

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