>> this is what american justice is all about. >> the judge has dealt a terrible blow to natural

marriage, the voters' rights. a federal judge overturns the same-sex marriage ban in california declaring it unconstitutional, but the fight is far from over. ahead, what is next over the battle of whom can marry whom. death valley. at least a third of the country is baking in triple-digit temps with deadly consequences. now, the other side of the story. a woman gets the surprise of her life on facebook. she finds out her husband is married to another woman. now he is speaking out and he says, he is no cheater. plus a dramatic ending to a police pursuit. what this suspect did is just off the charts. wait till you see it. hi, everybody, great to have you with us on this thursday morning. i'm thomas roberts live from msnb world headquarters in new york. we get right to it in california. gay marriage advocates are celebrating while opponents are vowing to appeal a federal judge's ruling. chief u.s. district judge has overturned the law. they are praising the landmark ruling.

>> quality is something that our nation has always been about. this decision today brings paul and i and so many others like us closer to that equality, too. >> our family is just as loving, just as real and just as valid as everyone else's. >> the case against proposition 8 was argued by attorneys david boies and ted olsen who faced off against each other in bush versus gore back in 2000. >> this is not a republican or democratic issue. not a conservative, not a liberal issue. it's a human rights, it's a civil rights issue. this was a great victory for our gays and lesbians and the children that they raise. >> but opponents of same-sex marriage are vowing to appeal the case. >> the judge has dealt a terrible blow to natural marriage, the voters' rights,

the constitution and this republic we call the united states of america. >> joining me now is nbc news justice correspondent pete williams. good morning. what was behind the judge's decision and where does this go from here? >> there is basically no legal justification for excluding same-sex marriage. procreation should be channeled into marriage for the sake of stable families. but what the judge said is that same-sex couples are equally effective parents and that allowing same-sex marriage doesn't discourage opposite sex couples from marrying and having children. he said the exclusion of same-sex marriage is based on male-dominated notions of the roles of the gender of marriage and the genders are now equal. so, he said, what you're left with in your view is moral disapproval, which the constitution doesn't permit. he did put a hold on the effect of his own ruling. no gay marriages right now, no new ones.

so, the question is, will that hold be extended while this case goes on to appeal to the court of appeals in san francisco or will he let it lapse and he may hear argument on that tomorrow and then decide what to do. it's a temporary hold until he sorts that out. >> pete williams in washington for us, thank you. how will the prop 8 ruling rank on the scale this fall? joined now by karen finny and nbc political analyst pat buchanan. thanks for joining us this morning, pat, i want to get straight to this. the impact on president obama, what will it have? >> it won't be good on his party. i don't know about the president himself. he said marriage is between a man and a woman. thom thomas, this is a disaster for his party. it elevates the most blazing issue that social conservatives have going into the fall campaign, it will fire them up at the same time, it's a clear example of judicial activism. here's a judge that found something in the 14th amendment that nobody ever saw there,

including the people who wrote it. it overturns a decision of 7 million voters in california. i think around the country there's no doubt some people will support this decision, but i think it's a disaster for the democrats because it will divide their party. >> karen, i see you shaking your head and laughing. i need to pass along to everybody, the white house released a brief statement that didn't support or reject the judge's ruling. let's go ahead and show it to everybody. the president has spoken out in opposition to proposition 8. karen, your thoughts? >> well, pat said exactly what i would have expected him to say, that is the gop strategy in 2010, which is use these kind of issues as wedges to divide people. use the issue of gay marriage to frighten the republican base and turn them out, even though they have nothing to be afraid of. this is a civil rights issue. the judge ruled that there is no such thing as separate but equal. that is what this is about. the opportunity for democrats here that i hope they will take advantage of is that there's an

opportunity here to talk about our values. we have certain inalienable rights guaranteed to us in the united states of america. some of the same arguments are being used against gay marriage that are being used at the time my parents got marriage that real marriage can only be between a white man and a white woman. we all know now that is crazy thinking. democrats should embrace this as a values issue and not be side tracked by the scary issues that republicans are trying to generate. >> pat, what do you think about the impact on congress? will this be an issue for voters heading out in november? >> yes t will be. in democratic districts where the democrats are fairly conservative and they got a conservative constituency, but democrats aren't going to take karen's advice in those districts. they're going to come out and say i believe marriage is between a man and a woman and i disagree with that judge and they will move on. the point of this is, look, pat

buchanan and republicans are not dividing the country on homosexual marriage. in 2004 when a judge made the decision in massachusetts, it was put on the ballot in 13 states. >> pat, of course, you are. you know exactly what you are doing. come on. >> that is why john kerry is not president of the united states. he was on the ballot in ohio, we're talking politics, karen. if you think it's a good idea. >> it is politics. but let's be honest about what the politics really are here, pat. the politics are about inflaming your base and scaring people and trying to get them out. rather than having a values discussion. >> i didn't -- >> you know what, it's the same thing you are trying when you talk about repealing parts of the 14th amendment. >> let's talk about the values. if the 14th amendment said it allows homosexual marriage or allows it, it would have never passed, karen. >> life, liberty and the pursuit of happiness and the constitution, the 1414th amendm says protection under the law for each american.

separate is not equal here, pat. >> it's about equality. it's about -- life, liberty and the pursuit of happiness. i have to pursue on with our show. >> thomas, who says that homosexual marriage is equal to normal marriage other than thomas and karen? and that judge. >> so you're saying black and white marriage is not okay, either? >> pat, it's about an equality issue here, pat. the ideology here is indicative of seeing an older white guy on the right and a younger white lady on the left. >> oh, well, yeah. that might have had something to do with it. >> pat, all i'm trying to say -- >> i have to go, i'm getting in trouble here. thank you. another critical day in the efforts to plug bp's blown out well for good. bp got the go ahead to pump cement into the well, the same way it pumped in heavy mud during the static kill. nbc news correspondent michelle

franzen. explain what happens next. >> another layer of redundancy pouring in cement in the same place where that poured that mud down. another insurance policy to ensure that that well will not leak again. and national incident commander thad allen had said that they gave bp the go ahead, as long as it doesn't interfere with the end all and that is the relief well, to make sure that is plugged. that is still on track to be finished up, hopefully, by mid-august. but, certainly, it will not take care of the long term impact. not only on the environment, but also for residents here in the gulf coast. along the gulf coast a new study out by the university, one of the university, columbia university mailman school shows that a survey of 1,200 coastal residents found that nearly a third of children showed signs of physical or mental effects from the spill, such as respi t respiratory problems and then

another fourth of residents felt that they needed to relocate. so, a lot of long-term impacts and efforts that will still need to be addressed in the months, thomas, years to come. >> michelle, thank you. we shift gears now to talk about blistering temperatures in the forecast expected for today as much of the nation is sweating under a major heat wave. heat waves in effect from georgia to illinois. it was well in the triple digits yesterday in oklahoma, dallas, memphis and louisiana. six high school football players in kentucky are recovering after the heat had sent them to the hospital. also causing big problems in oregon as crews bat allarge wildfire there. 13 heat-related deaths in the past few days. you can look at it for yourself how the northeast, as well as into the deep south is just going to be sweating it out for another day. powerful winds being blamed for a deadly barn collapse in ohio. two construction workers were killed yesterday when the building came crashing down. it was one of three barnes that collapsed and three other

workers were injured. so, the claws are coming out and it's not my claws with pat buchanan. between whoopi goldberg and the infamous party crasher and the new star of the "real housewives of d.c.." take a look at how it started. >> who threw the wine first? >> it was the anorexic calling beauties in all sizes. because you've been abusing me. you're a woman abusing me. >> i want to go forward. i want to go forward. >> i felt someone touch me. >> that was whoopi goldberg and she doesn't come out unless she's passionate about something. >> so you saw whoopi walk off. "the view" released a statement saying she accused whoopi of hitting her in the clip that you just saw and whoopi was dftding herself.

salahi was on "the view" to promote "the real housewives of d.c.." joining me later in the hour to talk about the historic prop 8 ruling and we'll have to ask his take that's in our next half hour here. so, remember that qu"rollin stones" reporter, well, it turns oout that reporter won't be allowed anywhere near the front lines in afghanistan. we'll talk with him next about whether he thinks he is being unfairly punished by the pentagon. plus, south african dinner party, dictators and blood diamonds. sounds like a really racy movie, but what naomi campbell testified today in court. [ woman ] nine iron, it's almost tee-time...

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new york city tough on crime mayor rudy giuliani is asking for privacy after his own daughter was busted for allegedly shoplifting. she took five items worth more than 100 bucks at a sephora store in manhattan. after learning her identity police didn't want to press charges against her. she faces a petty larceny charge. a big crowd serenaded president obama for his birthday. he celebrated his 49th birthday later in the night by having dinner with friends, not just only friends, but oprah and gale king. he got phone calls from his wife and daughter sasha who are in spain. he will talk to workers in the ford assembly plant in chicago. part of his agenda to highlight

the car companies. the u.s. defense department says it will not allow "rolling stone" reporter michael hastings to accompany troops in the afghan war zone. this follows the major fallout from his last article which mocked the obama administration. mcchrystal was fired and the military faced sharp new questions about the u.s. strategy there. michael hastings joins me now. he has a article on u.s. helicopter pilots in the september edition of "men's journal." thanks for being with us. >> thanks for having me here. >> you were offered a chance to be embedded with the troops but at the end of the month that's when the "rolling stone" article on stanny ley mcchrystal came . >> the letter said i had been approved for the embed that was

started in september. >> the obvious conclusion that a lot of people can draw from this that is the embed got pulled because of the "rolling stone" article. do you believe that is it or could it be somewhere else? >> in this letter they laid out the fact that there was political fallout from my "rolling stone" article and i could no longer be allowed to embed. >> they don't block reporters who write negative stories about them. how does this go through the wash? >> i think the pentagon's official policy is one for increased transparency. in fact, our policy in afghanistan with the international security assistance force or isap, which is america and its nato allies their policy is, as well, to not prevent any negative or embarrassing coverage. so, unfortunately, i just do not think they're following their own established policy and i would hope that they would reconsider their decision down the line. >> do you think with the fallout that happened all of this your reporting was dirty in any way?

>> no, not at all. i always try to do the best job i can and to be fair and accurate. look, why this is so troubling for me is that i've been doing this for five years. i've gone on dozens of embeds and combat missions with american troops and traveling regularly with senior military official os and nothing like this. i've never had any issues or any real complaints besides some of the normal complaints. so, that's what is so troubling about this entire episode from my perspective. >> do you think, though, that your journalistic opportunities could be hampered because of going through the embed process, again, that you wouldn't find people that trust you? >> i'm not, look, i have many great friends who i met along the way who are soldiers and marines and i trust them and i trusted them with my life and going on an embed is a privilege. but, obviously, the embed provides a unique opportunity to see how american men and women, both soldiers and civilians are fighting the war. so, that's an opportunity that

i've tried to take advantage of in the past and would hope to be able to do so in the future. but, like any journalist, if you lose access or you're trying to get a story, you try to find different ways to tell a story if one way is blocked. >> how do you think talking about this is going to impact your profession, your future career opportunities now? >> well, i think it's something that is important to talk about because, look, for me, this is not about one reporter being banned from an embed. this is about the fact that the war in afghanistan is having, you know, there are fundamental questions about the war in afghanistan. june and july were the deadliest months of the nine-year conflict and the war is at its lowest approval rating. the real issue here is the war in afghanistan and the policy questions surrounding it and, also, the real issue is actually the people who are out there on the front lines fighting the war who have to implement this policy. so, i think it's our responsibility as journalists

and, excuse me if i sound like i'm on some sort of soap box here. it is our responsibility to make sure the policy is right so the guys risking their lives aren't doing it for no reason. >> michael, thank you for joining us this morning. >> thanks for having me. a high-speed car chase ends with a dramatic twist. this video is just off the charts and just wait until you find out who was behind the wheel. former long beach new york police officer tom lane knew dealing with stolen property took up law enforcement's valuable time. so, he launched propertyroom. m propertyroom.wurxing with departments to auction stolen goods online. things like electronics, sports equipment and even a coffin. [ male announcer ] professionals need to perform under pressure. ♪

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the fight over gay marijuana is one step closer to a supreme court showdown. if the battle over gay marriage does make it to the high court the 14th amendment could become a deciding factor. mitch mcconnell is lending his support to hearings to the 14th that grants citizenship to anyone born in the u.s. but the 14th is more than just that, it was used to desegregate public schools, legalize abortion and grant due process.

i'm joined now by msnbc contributor, also associate professor of politics in african-american studies at princeton university. the gop has been calling the 14th the anchor baby law. senator lindsay graham thought. >> most americans are offended that you can buy a visa and turn around and have your baby and leave and you get citizenship through that process. i don't think that makes sense. >> where is this heading? >> well, you know, i'll say it's pretty depressing, in part, because the 14th amendment is one of the greatest accomplishments of the republican party. now, remember where the party stood in 1868 when this amendment passed is quite different than where they are now and it was truly the republican party over the filibuster of democrats that passed an amendment which defined american citizenship for the first time in our history.

it truly said, that we were citizens not only of the states, but citizens of a nation. it is an incredible amendment between the equal process, excuse me, equal protection, due process and the citizenship clauses. it is what modern americanship identity is. it's really depressing to see this very party now moving against it. clearly against just issues of bigotry. >> do you think this is throwing racial red meat at the republican base? >> you know, i'm not quite sure why they believe that racial red meat is the right thing to throw at their base. i certainly hope it's not an attempt to walk back on what the 14th amendment is. remember that part of what the 14th amendment does in 1868 is that it responds to the dread scott decision of a decade earlier. and remember that dread scott is a decision that we are appalled by in america these days. right, it was a decision that said that a black person had no

rights, that a white man was bound to respect. so, part of what 14th does is it actually says no in fact of one's rals identity, regardless of the condition of one's birth, the state, the government, the country does have to respect your rights. and so that's why it's such a critical amendment that each of us, right, not just minority groups, but every american desperately needs this amendment. >> protects us all. melissa, thanks for being on this morning. an unbelievable ending to a police chase caught on tape in maryland and the video is off the chart. a policeman's dashboard cam shows how dangerous these chases get. suddenly puts the car in reverse slamming into the hood of the officer's car. the officer wasn't seriously hurt nor the teen suspect who is charged with armed robbery, car theft and assaulting a policeors. an eastern pennsylvania amusement company has yapged a

carnival game because of what you see right here. an image that some says resembles president obama. people shoot foam darts at af n african-american man with a presidential seal and a health bill in his hand. a woman who saw the game at a church carnival said she was shocked but the company said they never saw any resemblance to the president. >> after it was brought to my attention, i thought maybe it could. >> the company owner appaologiz and said the game was toss under to the trash. the governor's race in arkansas is suddenly all shook up. elvis d. presley filed papers to run. according to the associated press he wants to supply people with a broader array of employment and newer chain of government, as well. the new candidate couldn't tell the a.p. how he got his name, but he says he's a part-time elvis impersonator.

hey, go figure. a judge overturns the same-sex marriage ban in california. a huge victory for gay rights, but the fight is far from over. up next, i'll talk with veteran civil rights activist and bravo's andy cohen to find out how pop culture influences the conversation. plus, why super model naomi campbell is talking about dictators and blood diamonds.

hi, everybody. welcome back to msnbc. bp officials just started pouring cement down the sunken oil rig. they finished pumping the mud yesterday, but they have not declared mission accomplished just yet. not until the relief wells are finished and that's coming up later this month. scorching hot weather has claimed 13 lives across several states and temps well over 100 degrees and all the way from georgia to illinois to nebraska and texas and it's going to be staying that way again today. sorry to tell you.

new unemployment claims were up by 19,000 to 479,000. this is the second increase in the past three weeks. and we go ahead and fill you in on breaking news we're just getting now from nbc justice correspondent pete williams. 14 arrests of u.s. citizens seeking to join al shabab. 12 of the cases come from minnesota and two others from alabama, as well as from california. say that again. okay, we're going to check in now with pete williams. pete, you're there for us and you can explain all of this. >> i am, thomas. these are a continuation of cases that the justice department has been bringing and what has become a very troubling trend, which is american citizens becoming radicalized and showing interest in joining the overseas terror organization called al shabab, which is based in somalia and which american officials say have connections to al qaeda. now, many of these cases over the last couple of years have

come from minnesota, from the minneapolis-st. paul area. and, in fact, 12 of the arrests that have happened here that the justice department will announce shortly are from minnesota, two others from california and from alabama. so, you know, the good news i guess here is that the justice department and the fbi have been able to keep these folks under surveillance and have been able to make arrests. there was just an arrest in the last couple of days of the person in the chicago area who had been under investigation for a year and a half and was arrested as he tried to leave the country to go to somalia. but there have been arrests of folks heading for somalia in the past several weeks. there was one here from virginia, as well. so, officials consider this a very disturbing trend that folks here in the u.s. that grow up in relatively normal lives become radicalized and want to go fight jihad and will learn more about this in a news conference in about an hour with the attorney

general and the u.s. attorney's offices in those states, thomas. >> we expect them to speak at noon. pete, thank you. >> you bet. california's battle over gay marriage could be headed for a showdown in the supreme court. vowing to appeal yesterday's ruling that overturned proposition eight. the voter-approved law that banned gay marriage. senior vice president of production and programming and also with me author and political strategist david. let's get right into this, david, i want to ask you, why is judge walker's ruling so monumental and, yet, at the same time, a small accomplishment in the bigger picture. >> it's a profound ruling and a grand slam home run for all of those fighting for full equality. first, you have to understand that judge walker was attempted to be appointed by ronald reagan and initially couldn't get confirmed because he was too conservative and only after george bush sr. that he got

confirmed. so, this is not some sort of left wing radical judge. this is a conservative judge that ronald reagan wanted to put on the bench. second of all, it literally tore apart all of the arguments that our opponents have against marriage equality. and, third, it is so powerful that it will be extremely hard for the logic of this decision not to be upheld by the appellate court and the supreme court. it is one of the most historical cases in american history. >> andy, from someone that has their finger on the pace of pop culture, how has the conversation helped move this along? what is going on? pop culture is such an influence. celebrities is such an influencer. >> i think when you look at gay the representation of gay people on tv, certainly on bravo we have a huge kind of cavalcade of gays of all shapes and sizes. i think when you see how gays are represented on tv and you're seeing more gay families. i mean, even the show "modern family" on nbc, i think this is

contributing to certainly young people looking at gays as, you know, just people like everybody else and people who can have families and lives and relationships and why shouldn't they be treated equally? i think pop culture plays a big part in how people view this issue and how people view gays. >> david, as andy says it's all about how young people are digesting this nowadays. is time the biggest ally to see this? >> we are on an inievitable roa to freedom. i don't want to wait until my generation passes away for it to happen. i think it's taking leaps and bounds in good part because of what we're seeing in the mass media, but also because people are thoughtfully considering. the more people that have come out, the more people know gay and lesbian people. and if you know someone, it's very hard to not want them to be happy. >> right, the personal connection. >> right.

>> personalize it. go ahead, you were going to say -- >> it's just impossible to fight someone who's your brother, who's your sister, who's your neighbor with passion. >> it makes a difference. david, i have to ask you to stay for this one and andy is here and we have to show what happened yesterday on "the view" and then i need to ask you about it. so, take a look at this. >> she threw a glass of scotch back. there was wine, there was scotch. >> who threw it first? >> it was the anorexic. >> because you have been abusing me. you're a woman abusing me. >> that gives him the right to abuse other -- >> we can go there. >> i want to go forward. i want to go forward. i felt someone touch me. she doesn't come out unless she's passionate about something. >> i need to ask andy -- >> don't apologize. >> he's an intellectual.

is there really a smack down between whoopi -- >> much to do about nothing. the big event is happening on bravo the premiere of "the real housewives on d.c.." that was the first time i have seen that clip, but it seems much to do about nothing. smackdown on "the view." i have seen bigger smackdowns on "the view." tonight, again -- >> "real housewives of planning and he's an intellectual, thomas. >> i am putting my foot in my mouth all morning. i want to thank both of you for being here. >> it's an honor to be here, thomas. thank you very much. a super model, blood diamonds and a notorious leader on trial for war crimes. model naomi campbell testifying in the tribunal of taylor. back in 1997 she was mysterious given dirty-looking stones

following a meal with the former liberian ruler. she later found out the gems often referred to as blood diamonds was likely a gift from an accused murderer. finance civil war in that region. it is a family fight playing out on facebook and in public. a wife claims she was betrayed by her husband on facebook and now he's telling quite a different story. alex rodriguez makes baseball history, becoming the youngest slugger to ever hit 600 home runs. will he be able to catch barry bonds? if you fight to sleep in the middle of the night, why go one more round ? you don't need a rematch, but a rethink. with lunesta. lunesta is thought to interact with gaba receptors associated with sleep. lunesta helps you get the restful sleep you need. lunesta has some risk of dependency. when taking lunesta, don't drive or operate machinery until you feel fully awake. walking, eating, driving or engaging in other activities

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deaths as suspicious. the mother is in the hospital after she jumped out of the window during the explosion. it is a really bizarre, he said/she said story. part of it is all over facebook. we brought you her story earlier this week. linda france claims her husband is a bigamist and that she found out about his second marriage on facebook and now john france is telling his side of the story. >> that's an outright lie about she found out on facebook. she found out, we actually told her. >> nbc jeff rossen is here in the studio to explain. >> you hit it all. child custody, facebook, what else do you need? >> it's a danielle steele novel. >> you know how it happens, a photo leaks out and the spouse is busted, that is not what happened here. john france and his new wife actually posted the photos themselves, including their wedding pictures.

meanwhile, his other wife logged in to facebook and couldn't believe her eyes. one man, two beautiful brides. >> you may kiss your wife. >> in 2005, the wedding of john and lynn france, the ceremony along italy's stunning coast and then in 2008, the wedding of john and amanda france. this one at disney world. complete with fireworks. >> married to me with our children in one state and with her in another state. >> double life. >> complete double life. >> reporter: lynn, the 2005 wife had two kids with john living in ohio. things seemed great. >> you click on facebook. >> clicked on facebook. >> reporter: and there it was. proof, she says, john was cheating with another woman in florida. in fact, the other woman, amanda, posted photos of the relationship on facebook for everyone to see, including lynn.

john's wife in ohio. >> what did you see? >> their life together. from their engagement to their photos from that wedding. >> reporter: lynn says despite the second wedding, she and john reconciled last year, but this past may he left her for good and took the children with him. today, john is living his new life with his new wife, amanda. and they continue to post photos on facebook. including shots of amanda playing with lynn's kids. writing comments like, putting my little loves to sleep. >> to the two of them this is a big joke and to me it's devastating because it's my children. >> reporter: you're saying she's lying. >> big time, yes. >> reporter: wednesday john and his new wife agreed to sit down for an exclusive interview. you've heard what lynn says that you're leading a double life. >> right. >> reporter: you're flaunting it on facebook. what is your response to her accusations? >> completely absorb.

facebook isn't where she found out about the marriage. she found out about the marriage months prior. >> reporter: his marriage to lynn wasn't even legal because of a filing error. so, you're saying your marriage to lynn is invalid. >> correct. >> reporter: there's no marriage. >> there's no marriage. >> reporter: you basically lived like husband and wife and you had rings and you had children together, isn't that just a convenient excuse to pardon your cheating? >> no, i don't think i was cheating. if you have a marriage and it's not right from the beginning, it's not right at the end. >> reporter: lynn also accuses john of keeping their kids from her. she hasn't seen her boys in ten weeks. >> she hasn't seen her kids because that's her choice. >> reporter: you're saying right now if she wants to come down and see the kids -- >> absolutely, any day. >> reporter: john and amanda says they just want to move on with their lives together and want primary custody of the kids, allowing lynn visitation. do you have any regrets? >> no. i regret that we let her get away with the accusations for so long.

>> reporter: this bizarre case, to say the very least, is now heading to court in florida next month both sides are fighting for custody and will appear before a judge. late last night, we should mention, we called lynn's lawyer and he told us that the marriage is valid and they have the documents to prove it and they called john's actions reprehensible saying the kids should be returned back to lynn in ohio immediately. >> i think that's probably what everyone should remember most, two kids are involved in this and what's best for them. good to see you. >> thanks. more from john and amanda france at noontime. my colleague contessa brewer also talks about this ongoing dispute. you don't want to miss it. is hall of fame quarterback brett favre retiring or not retiring? oddsmakers have no idea. mike and mike place their bets, next. tee-time... time to face the pollen that used to make me sneeze... my eyes water. but now zyrtec®, the fastest 24-hour allergy relief, comes in a new liquid gel. new zyrtec® liquid gels work fast, so i can love the air®.

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brace yourself, folks. because the thinkable has happened.

reports are that brett favre has retired. i know, we're all going to remember where we were when we heard the news. i was watching highlight tapes of his last three retirements. that guy can really cry in the clutch. all right, so, football's drama king is at it once again. different year, but same headline. is vikings quarterback brett favre finally going to retire. favre spoke with espn as he left training camp in hatiesbering, mississippi. >> no . that's why i love it. all right, guys, i got to go. >> and i'm joined now by the hosts of espn radio "mike and mike in the morning."

good morning. i want to start right away with brett favre telling your espn colleague that he will play, that is, if he is healthy. does this end the story there? >> well, certainly not. the brett favre story never ends. check back with us about 20 years from now when we will still have a brett favre story to deal with. that was the one big piece of information we got yesterday. favre had not actually said that yesterday that he was determined to play, if, indeed, the ankle allows it. that certainly isn't the answer to the question. >> always been with him, if i'm healthy enough, i want to play. i have a feeling he will get healthy enough. he will have the ankle looked at next week and he has still been limping around on it some. the ankle will be healthy enough. he has a team ready to hit the super bowl. >> does any of this drama, though, surrounding all this talk tarnish any of his legacy, though? >> we have been talking about it for three years. who knows. yeah, the guy comes out and plays great like he did last year, than no. but people get tired of the back

and forth. >> but, ultimately, the answer to that question is, no, i think it is completely forgotten ten years after his retirement and, in fact, the way he played last year at the age he was, he turned 40 during the season and he is a grandfather. not too many grandfathers putting up huge numbers in the nfl. his late career success enhances his legacy. >> not too many just single guys with no guys out there doing what he's doing. >> that's true. >> or none. >> let's switch, though, to alex rodriguez and talk about the fact that he became the youngest baseball player to make history reaching the 600th home run thresho threshold. want to ask you guy and what your hearing. is this legit given the fact that he has used performance enhancing drugs sph. >> that is really the $300 million question that i would correspond with. basically his contract, no way to definitively answer that question. for the first 140 years of baseball, there are only three guys that hit only 600 home runs. in the last eight years, four

more have joined that club. obviously, it isn't real, there's no question the drugs played a role in it, but the real question is, what does it mean? i suppose there's a different answer for every person. >> i believe baseball fans have become numb to it. baseball is a number sport more than any other sport out there. because whenever you hear anybody in football get nailed, the first question is, how soon are they back? when do we get them back on the field? in baseball, let's wipe them out of the history of the baseball. it's treated very differently. i think fans now have become numb to the players of this steroid era. >> but does the hall of fame become numb to this? >> no, at this point, nobody thinks any of these guys are getting into the hall of fame. green and i both have said that we thought over time that they would. but i'm starting to wane on that a little bit. it seems like they'll keep these guys out of the hall of fame. >> spoken loud and clear in the first test case and that's mark mcgwire. that's a player who definitely would have gotten into the hall of fame under different circumstances and he has not

gotten anywhere near the vote it would take to get in and doesn't look like he will ever get close. for rafael palmeiro and roger clemens certainly would be and alex rodriguez would certainly be. at this moment, if we had to bet on it, you would have to bet they would never get in the hall of fame. >> all right, gentlemen, mike and mike in the morning, thank you so much. we appreciate your time. >> thank you. that does it for me at this hour. it went by really fast. i'm thomas roberts filling in for chris jansing. i will see you back here tomorrow at 10:00 a.m. eastern. more on the extreme and deadly heat across the country. have a good one, everybody. hey ! chocolate, vanilla, or strawberry ? chocolate ! chocolate it is ! yeah but i'm new too. umm... he's new... er... than you. even kids know it's wrong to treat new friends better than old friends. at ally bank we treat all our customers fairly. with no teaser rates... ... and no minimum deposits. it's just the right thing to do.

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we start with breaking news. in an hour from now noon eastern the justice department will announce more americans have been charged with trying to join a sumallo-based terror organization. pete williams broke the story. joining me now with details, pete, what do we know at this point? >> we are still learning new facts