what else? >> and francis says i'm awake because willie has become the highlight of my day. >> that's deeply sad as someone ladies and gentlemen, the people of delaware have spoken. no more politics as usual. i can't thank you enough because you guys partnered with me, believed in me from the beginning, stood with me in the face of adversity and because of that, we are here tonight. welcome to "morning joe."

i'm joe scarborough. i'm your constitutional scholar. i will take you through your next three hours. i don't know if i told you, but i actually booked constitutional law -- which means you get the top grade in your common law class, and willie geist, also a constitutional expert. we were pouring over the united states constitution last night and we discovered, did we not, that there is no constitutional requirement for a political party to take power in the united states if they don't want to. everything that happened last night, that's legit. if they don't want to take over the united states senate, that's fine. there is actually no constitutional -- even if the overwhelming mass of americans want them to, by damn, they don't have to. last night i think the republican party stood up for that constitutional right to just say no. >> exercising the right across this country last night. >> to say no, we don't want the power -- no, no. we don't want power. >> or at least the 53% of the

57,000 voters, that mass 57,000 voters who went to the poll in delaware. >> you know why i think mcdonnell won -- reading all these blogs, if you look at the lettering on the christine mcdonnell thing, it's duncan doughnut lettering, and it made me hungry. >> it is the font of the people. >> if you look at it, it makes me hungry. well, good morning. mika is in washington, d.c. training for the health challenge. why is she doing that? she doesn't need to do that. >> i don't know. she's doing cyber metrics. >> willie, marlboros? >> this is a walk, not a run. i'm not getting on the train to da if there's running. >> there will be no running from us. we got a golf cart. i got, like, those tony soprano

sweats, velour and we'll be smoking. we're in new york, we have msnbc and "time" magazine analyst laura halprin. chris jansing and in washington, d.c., nbc political analyst pat buchanan. i don't know if pat is lathered up by what happened last night. pat, we'll get to you in a minute. i was awakened though in the middle of the night by a three-alarm -- not tweet, a three-alarm column by mark halprin, framing last night in opinion pox lip tick terms for the republican party. >> so apocalyptic. republicans were taking a senate seat, there was a building block to get back to the senate majority. it's gone barring some truly unforeseeable development. absolute binary switch. republicans now almost impossible to come up with a way they get the ten-seat majority.

in the longer term it shows the republican party has a huge problem. they've benefit friday the tea party movement so far. they'll benefit in november but maybe having a huge, huge day. >> you know what? they'll win kentucky with rand paul. colorado, looks like it's going to go the republican's way. >> pennsylvania, florida. >> yeah. the tea party will help in all those states. >> even wisconsin. a lot of people that were democrats and said the tea party strength is going to cost republicans the seat -- >> o. >> almost everywhere help them. this is the first one where it's going to hurt. >> no, no, the second one. harry reid is gone. they've kept harry in the race because of sharon engel. >> the other candidates in that race were not so strong either. >> seriously my back hurts, i've got two chickens, i'm ready to make a deal. who knows? >> you know, willie, that's how it used to be done. >> if there was another candidate in the race that was

strong -- the apocalyptic party, the republican party has a huge problem. don't want to be negative about people in the tea party who from active and care about their country, that's great. but they're narrowing the ability of republicans to be a majority -- >> you certainly don't second-guess an entire group of voters. just for the record, i was told back, pat buchanan, in 1994, that i was too conservative to get elected. in fact, eric cirque son i think went back and wrote a tweet -- wrote a column about it where he got all the quotes where newt gingrich was saying the same thing ability me that we've been saying about christine o'donnell. but there's a big difference, pat. i was in northwest florida. she's in delaware. that's all i'm going to tell you, pat. then i'm going to be quiet and wait for you to respond. >> joe, i'm sorry, i didn't know you were talking to me.

let me say this, this is going to be a crucial test of how the republican party handles the tea party. what we heard karl rove say in trashing this woman is a horrible mistake. if i were mitt romney, i would call o'donnell up on the phone this morning and say congratulations, be happy to come in and campaign for you. maybe you're going to lose that seat, joe. but how you treat this woman who from what we've seen in the pictures this morning is a very attractive and very fresh and very new, and she's got all these folks incited behind her, you should bring those in the the republicans are a big ten party. >> no doubt they've got to do that, pat. everybody needs to call her up and support her. >> pretty, fresh, new, does it remind you of anyone? >> me, me. that's what pat said about me. >> this is your party, joe. >> i'm not so sure, chris -- we've killed hamlet, slaughtered him in the first act.

go ahead and tell us what happened. >> let's backtrack to the results of yesterday's primaries. >> previously on "morning joe." >> as seen here, five minutes ago. delaware, tea party favorite christine o'donnell defeated veteran congressman mike castle to win that state's republican nomination for senate. she finished with 53% of the vote compared to castle's 46.9%. >> we're in this to win, and we're in this to win big. and win big we did. don't ever underestimate the power of we the people!

>> we the people will have our voice heard in washington, d.c. once again, because i believe this isn't just about this u.s. senate race. this is about changing the system, changing the political system in delaware so that more everyday americans with step up to the plate without worrying about character assassination and run for office because we need citizen politicians in dover and in washington, d.c. to get our state and our country back on track. so that's what this is all about. >> the last several weeks have been spirited, shall we say. the voters in the republican primary have spoken and i respect that decision. i had a very nice speech prepared here hoping i would win this race and talk about the things we've been able to do to create jobs and reduce taxes and those things that make a difference to delaware. still a long ways to go, by the way. i still have some time in

office, so i will be very vently trying to carry out my responsibilities. >> you know, it's a scene out of bob roberts. i mean, do you remember that movie? pat, i remember learning that mike castle was going to run for senator. i was very excited about it because i understood that if the republican party were to be a national party, republican party would need to win states like delaware, and mike castle would give republicans the best chance to win that senate seat in a long -- in decades. that opportunity is gone now and i just wonder, does the republican party have what it takes to be a national party again, to understand, as haley barber does, that moderates to

liberals like jim jeff fords win in vermont, that moderates like mike castle who you and i will disagree with on a lot of policy issues, but moderates like mike castle are the type of candidates that win in delaware. reagan understood that. richard nixon understood that. the people you work for understood that, pat. does this republican party understand that? >> yeah. but here is the thing, joe. what you've got is a goldwater movement coming up, if you will. when we were with goldwater, behind him back in 1962 and '63, we said point-blank we would rather lose with goldwater than win with rockefeller. this is the spirit of rising movements. the republican party has got to realize that these folks are part of a rising movement and bring them in. what you say is right. they would rather lose with one of their own than win with an establishment republican. but what is the question and how do you deal with it? i'll tell you, this is going to

really influence i think the republican primaries here because these folks are basically -- they are not for the romney, if you will, mitch daniels, haley barber folks who work with the other side. they're for one of their own, pure politics. and this is a tremendous boost, i think, to sarah palin. and it's a real blow, i think, to those folks. if you want to win in 2012, you will bring this woman in. >> all right. chris? >> castle campaign sources, congressman is not going to be endorsing her. national officials are not going to be funding the race. pat mentioned this, the former adviser to president bush, karl rove also made it clear last night that o'donnell hurt the party's chances of recapturing this senate in november. she does not, however, say she needs the support. >> many national republicans

have said simply, you cannot win in november. do you need their money? can you win without it? >> good. they don't have a winning track record. of course there's a greater good here, and i would love their support, but they're the same so-called experts who said i couldn't win the primary. there's a lot of visionarition and leaders you've seen here in this room who believe we can win. if they're too lazy to put in the effort that we need to win, then so be it. we're going to win without them. i'd love their support, but we're going to win without them. >> it does conservatives little good to support candidates who at the end of the day, while they may be conservative in their public statements, do not a vince the characteristics of rectitude, truthful frns, sincerity and character that the voters are looking for. there's a lot of nutty things she's been saying -- >> sounds like you don't support her. i will tell you -- >> i'm for the republican. i've got to tell you, we were

looking at eight to nine seats in the senate. we're now looking at seven to eight in my opinion. this is not a race we're going to be able to win. >> i haven't said this in a while. i agree with karl rove. i agree with him. i will say just as a guy that on a smaller level -- probably northwest florida is about the size of delaware. i had the national party, state party, local party kicking me in the head, and they were all trying to kill me every single day, and i won. i respect the hell out of her on that front. she had everything, everything thrown at her, everything thrown at her. and she still won. you know, guess what? if you have everybody from karl rove on one side, joe scarborough on the other side to

the "weekly standard" going after everybody in the national party establishment, the republican senatorial committee going after her and the voters in delaware still saying we want her, we don't want mike castle, guess what? the voters spoke, didn't they? >> pat is right. it's going to have huge implications for the 2012 republican nomination. but before we get there, there's two people who will be front and center as the party pieces pick through this. one is sarah palin and one is senator demint from south carolina. they both endorsed her. people in the republican establishment are openly being furious, background quotes, from leading republicanless at senator demint saying he has cost them a senate seat and maybe the majority. the question is does anybody in the party, major figure say about sarah palin, you're doing great, all the energy, all the excitement you're say -- >> let me bring in pat here. pat, we still have a lot to talk about here. the shocker in new york.

i think it's a shocker that lazio got beat in new york. let's say it, i blame sarah palin for last night. if republicans do not win this senate seat. it's slachlt it falls on sarah palin's shoulders. you're talking about how this helped sarah palin and other people do. guess what? if we as a republican party are one vote short of a majority in 2012, i will come on the next morning -- our 2010, i'll come on the next morning and say it's all sarah palin's fault. she decided to do the reckless political thing and select somebody she knew couldn't win in delaware. >> they might have said the sang thing about nickie haley and some of the other women she endorsed. >> hold on a second. we've got to clarify this. there are a lot of people that are combining -- nicky haley was

in south carolina. sarah palin can endorse tea party candidates in south carolina and kentucky and have favorable results, maybe in nevada. not in delaware. >> i'm saying that, look, some things, frankly are more important to some people than winning, and i'll tell you this, if i were sarah palin, i would call up cornyn at the republican senatorial campaign committee and say, if you cut this woman dead, i've raised my last time for your committee. quite frankly, joe, what i'm saying is, okay, no doubt about it, castle is a stronger candidate. he got whipped because delaware's republican party didn't want him. they want one of their own. ifity they made a decision, you reach out and bring them in. if you're going to be a majority party, you've got to bring in the christine o'donnells as well as the mike castles. >> pat, they're not going to be a majority party in the senate because of what they did last night. let me ask you, pat, would you

as a conservative guide its work for the republican party for most of your life? are you glad the results broke the way they did last night? would you rather be right than in the majority? >> can i tell you -- out of school, i was sitting in bed and cheer and whooped when she won. it's come from the heart, joe. the tea party folks are people of the heart. they bring tremendous assets and liabilities. there's no doubt about that. if you get one, you get the other. but what you can't say is give us your fire and energy, but if you folks are a little too far out, forget those. only go with the ones we all agree can win. they're not that kind of people. >> i'll tell a story out of school as well. i was -- >> does it involve you being in bed? >> it was 1996. i was in an apartment, i think 300 east capitol.

i was lying on the couch. the new hampshire results came in, and this crazy s.o.b. gets up on stage and he says, don't wait for orders from headquarters, mount your horses and ride to the sound of gunfire, and i let out a yell that woke up the entire neighborhood. patrick j. buchanan. >> i was in the room when that happened. i got goose bumps. >> yeah. and then ran out. they brandished the pitch forks. >> then i followed him to as adds where he blew the whole thing. >> no. it was forbes writing checks, right, pat? >> well, forbes had 20,000 votes in the bank absentee before he arrived in arizona. that's what you can do when you've got 60 million bucks. >> you shouldn't have worn that blackout fit, pat. >> chris, we're going to have you go through the rest of the news at some point. obviously in new york, a stun know, lazio got beaten as badly

as he did. and new hampshire, we got to talk about that and much more. i guess that requires i shut up. >> yeah. >> we'll be back. up next, our exclusive look at the top stories in politico's playbook. also troubling admission from arlington national cemetery. what was discovered after they exhumed two grave sites. it's a story making the front page of the news this morning. first, here is bill karins with an update on two major hurricanes and a tropical storm. bill? >> good morning, joe. first off, the tropical storm is making landfall. this is karl in mexico south of cancun into northern belize. that storm will head into the gulf of mexico and head back into mexico. it's not going to affect texas. this is what's very impressive. two major hurricanes, category 4s, hurricane igor and hurricane julia. igor will provide rich currents, large waves and beach erosion through the weekend. not a direct impact here.

but bermuda is still in the line of fire on sunday for igor. forecast for today, another fall-type day from boston to d.c. the rest of the southeast looks hot. texas is still very hot. the travel trouble spots, kansas city up to minneapolis. and finally, tomorrow, the bipartisan health challenge, meek karks joe and willie, tomorrow morning on the national mall, 7:30 a.m. 3k fun walk looks ideal. you're watching "morning joe" brurd by starbucks. [ woman ] nine iron, it's almost tee-time...

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people for ethical treatment of animals released a statement criticizing vice president joe biden for passing out hot dogs to our returning troops on my show last week. peta, how can you attack the vice president for feeding our soldiers. we should call you the final for the un-american treatment of animals or puta. >> let's take a look at the morning papers, a decisive victory for vincent gray, despite spending millions on ice election, he couldn't turn around an election that became a ref wrerendum on his personalit. officials at arlington national cemetery discovered two people were buried in the wrong plots after their remains were exhumed last month. they made that discovery, the first revelation of bodies being exhumed since the army's inspector general report in june

that found extensive record keeping issues. that problem was first e posed due to an investigation by salon.com. >> what salon has done on that story is remarkable. we've had the great reporter here. he stavrted something big. >> they've been all over that. >> that's how reporters have really changed things and bring truth to life. >> "wall street journal," efforts to tame the ballooning deaf, nearly half of all americans live in households in which someone receives government benefits, more than any time in history. >> "aning roj daily news" lisa murkowski plans to announce on friday whether she'll run as an independent candidate. >> can she do that? >> as a write-in? >> she may win. >> hard to spell murkowski. >> does it have to be correctly spelled to count? >> the response she'd get would be lisa m. >> that would be awesome.

>> she lost last month to joe miller. >> she's still the most popular politician in alaska. >> lisa m. was one of prince's sidekicks. >> she was, the one with the gloves. >> no fingertips. joining us, chief white house correspondent from politico michael len wike allen. >> after 34 democrats voted against the health care bill in march, we heard they would be punished, run out of office, taking revenge in the primaries. here we are five months later. how did it all play out? >> amazingly all 30 of the house democrats who voted against health care and were running again have made it through their primaries. not a sij democrat lost because of their votes on health care. >> wait. but i read that they were going to be run out of town. the brigade was really angry,

right, willie? >> oh, yeah. >> all we do is read angry left wing and right wing blocks. didn't say they they were going to destroy these people. >> punished not just by the blogs but voters would run them out of town. what happened? >> progressives said they would put candidates up, that they were going to fund them, this would be a killer issue. none of those things happened. there were some candidates that were put up, but they didn't have enough money. they didn't have juice, and health care is not an issue in these races, and certainly opposition to health care isn't the problem. in fact, as your viewers know, not a single house or senate candidate, not one, is running an ad saying they're for health reform. >> so again, mike, no one of the house democrats who voted against health care was knocked out. >> not one. wow. >> so as we're looking ahead, we see that isn't going to be a

killer issue. so many other issues now that democrats have to worry about. a shocking story that just popped on politico. john dengal in michigan, he or his dad have held that congressional seat since 1933. politico's jonathan al en says he could lose to a republican that few people knew, and he met with his donors and told them that very candidly. >> wow, that is shocking. >> mark halprin, john dengal, lootz michigan? >> well, if that happens, then what i talked about weeks ago, losing 60 seats will definitely be true. >> mike, thanks so much. we'll check back later in the show. i don't understand, willie. i don't understand, because all the far left wing bloggers said this was the end. this will not stand. these democrats that actually listened to voters in their district would be destroyed. >> this did stand.

>> it actually did stand. >> turned out it stood, yes. >> still ahead, democratic senator sharon brown, harold ford junior and republican congressman aaron shock will be with us. >> we'll get through the news as well. up next, extra inning drama in a fight for first place between the yankees and the rays. yankees blue a 6-0 lead. could they stage a comeback of their own? we'll be right back. >> that's a tease. what is that? a travel preview of what might soon be the small estuary line seat ever made. >> i was fascinated by those pictures. buckle up. ♪ ♪ every day, it's getting closer ♪

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- marry me. - marry me. - marry me. - be my wife, please. ( bells tolling ) ( all cheering ) ha ha ha! announcer: introducing the kohler karbon faucet. it's a beautiful wednesday morning on rockefeller plaza. welcome back to "morning joe." france is one step closing from banning women from wearing a berka in public after the senate overwhelmingly adopted the proposal yesterday. if the law is approved rnlgs it

would go into effect next spring, setting a range of fines for women including tourists who would wear the full veil. israeli and palestinian leaders will hold more peace talks in jerusalem after discussing issues behind the conflict at meetings in egypt yesterday. secretary of state hillary clinton mediated yesterday's negotiations saying, quote, we're all praying for a favorable outcome. still palestinians are threatening to walk out of the talks if israel doesn't extend its ban on jewish settlement construction in the west bank due to expire next month. dutch police have arrested and fined an american pilot who was drunk and about to take off with a jet full of passengers. officials haven't identified the pilot or his airline. they said he is a 52-year-old captain from new jersey. police say the pilot was fined $900 and released. the flight was canceled. >> why did you have to throw in the detail about new jersey? >> that was a cheap shot from the garden state. >> for all the years i had to

take the shuttle from new york over to msnbc. if you thought airplane seats couldn't get more uncomfortable, think again. this week an italian company unveiled a new seat with as much surface area as a bar stoold, designed to help airlines fit more passengers into quote. some call it, quote, akin to riding horseback. >> wow, it just keeps getting worse. >> i think it's about ten inches less leg room for people like you. >> i can't imagine. >> one of those regional flights, knees up to here. the new york yankees, i'm telling you, last night, could have been a defining moment for the yankees. >> they needed that one last night. we'll show highlights in a second. first, though, last week we told you about the reports that the heisman committee would strip reggie bush for the heisman for allegations that he and his family received hundreds of thousands of improper gifts from an agent during his time as a collegiate running back at usc. yesterday, though, reggie beat them to the punch.

the former usc star gave back the heisman trophy before they could take it away calling the decision heart breaking. in a statement bush wrote the persistent media -- has been painful and distracting. in no way should this reflect on the dignity of this award nor on any other institution or individual. the heisman trust has yet to decide to give the trophy to vince young the guy who finished second in voting. he says he doesn't want the ward. the rst time in the award's 75-year history that a player forfeited the trophy. >> the story is he caught word they were going to take it away from him and they gave him the opportunity to give it back so he wouldn't be more embarrassed. >> i don't like it. >> i don't like it either. what he did was wrong, but he was the best player in the land. you heard on espn last night he

was just beating them to the punch. >> that's right. and why wouldn't he? >> fire me. say i'm fired. >> you're fired. >> you can't fire me, because i quit. >> there you go. >> i hate what he did. i hate what was going on at usc. but he's the best player in the land. >> he was young and inexperienced. >> right. i think the heisman -- i understand the importance of the dignity of the award. i think they should give it back and say thank you for your gesture. >> the truth is the ncaa which makes so much money off guys like reggie bush and then makes a publish shaming out of them when they take money, in some cases this kid at georgia, the wide receiver sold his jersey to somebody and they suspended him for four games of his college season. >> it's a farce. how much money these people make off these children because they're the age of my son, these young kids 18 to 22 make institutions, including my own,

hundreds of millions of dollars, and, my god -- and a kid sells his jersey and they put cuffs on him? >> the ncaa and nfl if they get together, need to do something ability agents who prey on these 20-year-old kids and say you want to ride in a limo? sure, that would be fun. then they put -- >> or how about this one -- >> his family almost 30,000, that's a lot of money. >> do you know how much money reggie bush made at tfor the university of southern california? >> a lot. but he still broke the rules. >> so punish usc. let him keep the award. again, i don't like it. >> usc was punished harshly. >> at least pete carroll did the right thing. he hung in there -- i remember there were reports and pete said -- i've always liked pete -- he said i was here when

things went bad. >> i have an update on that story. >> punch me right here because i'm -- >> he left for the nfl moments before the announcement came down. he said it all happened so quickly. by quickly he meant three years. you know what? we're shocked and stunned and deeply saddened. i'm on my way to seattle. >> a whirl wind three years. let's get to the baseball game joe was talking about. yankees had fallen behind the rays after losing a couple nights ago in the al east. last night they almost did it again. tampa bay down 6-0 in this game. they came back and took the lead on a three-run home run by willy aybar. 7-6 rays. yankees tied it in the sixth thanks to curtis granderson. this is in the ninth into keep it tied at seven. like monday they went to extra

innings. jorge posada with perhaps the biggest hit of the season, his 18th home run of the season. watch this play, joe. bottom of the tenth. karl crawford on second base with one out. matt joyce flies out to right. a callup from the minors, guns him down roberto clemente style, double play to end the game. >> oh, my god! unbelievab unbelievable. >> a-rod slaps the tag on the kid. crawford, the fastest guy in baseball. the yankees win 8-7. they're back up a half game. >> really, that may be the fielding play of the season. >> that's a defining moment in the yankees season. al east rivals play the last game of the season tonight. the braves are a couple games behind the phillies. you figure they're under a lot of stress, a lot of pressure. well, not all the players.

some of them are just singing. ♪ and the home of the brave ♪ i'm all right ♪ all i do is win, win, win ♪ >> that's catcher david ross. he's loose. they're still in the race. >> baseball players are crazy. they are. are they not the craziest? they have to be. >> 162 games you sit in the dugout. you have to entertain yourself. >> you have to to fail a lot. and sing through it. >> we've got to go. pat buchanan in d.c., where do you stand with the reggie bush thing? should they take it back or let him keep it? >> i agree with you, joe. it brought to mind pete rose. he shouldn't have been betting

on the games. he was the ty cobb of his day and not to put him in the hall of fame i thought was the wrong thing to do. >> yeah, i agree. >> let's get pete rose in the hall of fame. >> and give the heisman back to reggie bush. >> we'll dig into the big primary results, plus a look at this morning's must-read op eds, and how did senate majority leader harry reid spend primary day? you guessed it, tweeting with lady gaga in "muse you can use." [ animals calling ] ♪ [ pop ]

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you bet yeah. there's another woman i got to thank. thank you governor palin for your endorsement. she got behind us war weary folks and gave us a boost of encouragement when we needed it. she was a vote against the politics of personal destruction. >> we have discussed those delaware republican senate primary results. let's get you caught up on the other key races. the tea party is trying to pull off a similar victory in new hampshire where the republican race for u.s. senate is too close to call. with 85% of precincts reporting. former attorney general kelly ayot backed by established republicans as well as sarah palin holds a razor thin lead over businessman and tea party favorite lamontagne. the tea party movement scored a victory in new york where karl

paladino upset the former congressman rick lazio for the republican nomination for governor. paladino spent more than $3 million of his own money to win. he will now face the state's democratic attorney general, andrew cuomo in november. >> tell us about paladino. >> he's a rich guy, spent a lot of money. lazio, just not a great candidate within the party elite and he's from the mad as heck and ain't going to take it anymore school. paladino, i think you'll see republicans in the state endorse andrew cuomo. >> why is that? >> he's got some personal things, forwarded some improper e-mails and taken positions out of the main street. andrew cuomo now is going to be able to run in the center, and i think could top the percentage of spitzer. >> pat buchanan, it just sounds like big news all around. the establishment figure is being beaten in delaware, beaten

in washington, d.c., being beaten in new york state. there's a trend here. >> there sure is. here in d.c., joe, you were talking to gene robinson yesterday, fenty lost his base in the african-american community because he was perceived as having moved away from the african-american community pretty much and not given appointments and things like that. you were getting that very, very strong toward the last two weeks of the campaign. interesting, in new hampshire you have the sarah palin's candidate is more of an establishment candidate than lamontagne who was surging at the ends of the race. he got the endorsement of demint. what you've got is a sarah palin-jim demint party, and i think in another party and the two will have trouble getting together. >> you may be right. what else are we looking at in new york, chris? >> the embattled veteran congressman charlie rangel surviving a challenge by five

rivals despite a dozen ethics charges in congress. he won a majority of votes, nearly 51%. his most aggressive opponent, powell, finished with 23%. >> i want you to know no matter what they say, i go back to washington stronger than i've ever been. and it has nothing to do with my personality. it has everything to do with you. >> chris, charlie survives? >> i know, easily, easily, 51% to 25%. it wasn't even close there. obviously he's going to win. >> adrian fenty, a guy we've interviewed a good bit, he's taken on special interests and fought for reform. he was defeated last night in

d.c. >> you hear from a lot of people in d.c. who say perhaps he's not a good politician, mark halprin, wasn't good at reaching out to people and feeding specific interests and taking on fights that cost him. >> he made mistakes and both certainly appearing to be out of touch and in some ways getting out of touch with constituents. politics matters a lot. government matters more. i hope the new mayor elect continues education reform, continues to try to make the change -- kind of changes mayor fenty was making because the city needs to be a great place and it hasn't been for a long time. >> it has not been. adrian fenty started, pat buchanan, on many aggressive reforms, especially in education. does he run as an independent now? >> i think gray is going to be the next mayor. i tell you this, michelle reid has a real problem because she campaigned with fenty, and colbert king, a columnist for "the washington post" in effect says that she's gone.

she, joe, as you know is a national figure, and it will be a very interesting test of the new mayor if he says she's got to go despite the fact she's really got an independent base. >> yeah. seriously, she does a lot of good for barack obama, for arne duncan, for the forces of education reform on the democratic side. who knows? maybe the white house gets involved in that. >> we'll see. harold ford junior coming up in a few minutes. first a little news you can't use, harry reid's twitter conversation with lady gaga. the senate majority leader spending the day on twitter with lady gaga.

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it's all about the tackles and the touchdowns... and watching my boys do what they do. but for me, it's even more than that. game time is about our time. together. [ female announcer ] get low prices on all your favorites for the game. save money. live better. walmart. mika on tape from washington, d.c. where she's preparing for the bipartisan health challenge. >> how do you think she's doing that? >> sprinting around the mall at full speed for three straight hours. >> chris said in my ear, whatever it is, it's crazy. >> i think that went without saying. a little news you can't use. remember a couple months ago we had john mccain and snooki tweeting back and forth. turns out they're friends. snook xi is a supporter of john mccain because she says he never

would have put in the 10% tank salon tax. now we have two more icons tweeting. harry reid and lady gaga yesterday. she of the now famed meat dress. i love to see the maet dress. there's the meat dress. that's real meat. real cuts of meat. that was her at the vmas. they were tweeting yesterday about don't ask, don't tell. lady gaga says gay veterans were my vma dates. repeal don't ask don't tell. much to her surprise harry reid responded. hey, liddy gaga, there's a vote on don't ask don't tell next week. anyone qualified to serve should be allowed to do so. she responds, god bless and through harry reid, from all of us. we were born this way. he replies it's the right thing to do, gaga, come back to vegas soon.

that from heirry reid to lady gaga. lady gaga has 6.2 million followers. maybe he's trying to get a piece of the gaga magic. >> can i just say lady gaga to shut up, just shut up and sing. i don't care if she's talking about tax cuts or job creation. >> what do you think harry reid's favorite lady gaga song is. >> remains one of my favorite al gore stories who says he went up to courtney love and said what's your favorite song? >> just name one. he couldn't do it. jim i carter did the same thing with the all mond brothers. >> al hand draw i think is his favorite song. what's your favorite song? chris? >> she's provacative. >> harold ford junior next on "morning joe." [ woman ] nine iron, it's almost tee-time...

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said simply you cannot win in november. do you need their money? can you win without it? >> good. they don't have a winning track record, but, you know, of course there's a greater good here, and i would love their support. but they're the same so-called experts who said i couldn't win the primary. there's a lot of visionaries and leaders you've seen in this room who believe we can win. if they're too lazy to put in

the effort that we need to win, then so be it. we're going to win without them. i'd love their support, but we're going to win without them. >> welcome back to "morning joe," top of the hour. still with us, chris jansing and mark halprin. also with us onset, msnbc political analyst and author of "more davids than goliath." . a political education," harold ford, junior. you get to the end of that thing, like don drape sgler tears started in the fourth chapter when harold ford ran a campaign for his dad. water works. >> i want you to go on tour with me. i need that kind of emotional support. >> can we just drink in the cover here. >> a beautiful cover. put it back up for a second. we tried this. unfortunately for me, i like the concept, the fourth chin eclipsed actually my face.

we couldn't go from underneath. you have to stand on the ladder to take a picture of me. >> we brought in the people to doctor the photograph. we couldn't do it. christine o'donnell for the republican party what ned lamont was for the democratic party in 2006? >> we'll have to see. i think democrats this morning have reason to be happy. >> oh, yeah. i would say so. >> let's say this. if you watch these races, these republicans ran individual races. i still believe for democrats to win and hold majorities in both the house and the senate, you're going to have to give them all -- each he and she the opportunity to run their own races. if they have to be a little right of democrats on social issues to win as they were in pennsylvania's 12th with critz there, let them do it f. they have to be to the right on economic policy, let them do it. if they have to be left of the president on some issues, let them do it. as long as there's not a national message, last night was

a path for democrats, for my party to hold majorities in both places. >> pat buchanan, let's go through all the results. o'donnell one. in new hampshire we have a close race. it looks like the establishment figure may pull that out. you want to take us, chris, we're going to ask pat the bigger picture. you want to take us to the results. >> let's take a look at the results. you mentioned delaware where christine o'donnell defeated veteran congressman mike castle. o'donnell finished with more than 53% of the vote compared to castle's 46.9%. >> we're in this to win. and we're in this to win big. >> and win big we did. don't ever underestimate the

power of "we the people." >> tea party trying to pull off a similar victory in new hampshire where the republican race for u.s. senate is still too close to call. with 85% of precincts reporting, former attorney general kelly ayotte backed by establishment republicans as well as sarah palin holds a razor thin lead over ovide lamontagne, 38.2% to 37.5%. and the tea party movement scored a victory in new york where businessman and tea party ally karl paladino upset rick lazio for the republican nomination for governor. paladino won using more than $3 million of his own money and an anti-tax message. >> yes, we're mad as hell. new yorkers are fed up. tonight the ruling class knows they have -- they've seen it now. they not only know it, but

they've seen it. there's a people's revolution. every day new yorkers are mad enough to force change at the ballot box. people have had enough. >> paladino now faces the state's democratic attorney general andrew cuomo in november. >> pat, what's it all mean? you have the tea party scoring a decisive win in delaware, new york state and keeping it pretty close in new hampshire. >> i think what it means here for the coming year, joe, look, the tea party folks are saying basically we shoot collaborators. if you're working with democrats and obama and pelosi and reid in washington, continue come home again. i think this is bad news for any kind of budget deal between the democrats and republicans because every republican that seems to play ball with the democrats on one or another of the big issues comes home and

faces a hellish challenge or defeat. but the second thing that i think is important, joe, is this picture of her -- take a look at the pictures, she's young, fresh, attractive, ham pi. it's the greatest day of her life. on the other side, we've had this film of karl rove, bah humbug which looks terrible. i think republicans should say, look, we lost this, our tea party friends won it. we have to get together in november. >> rove says she's ethically challenged. "the weekly standard" was producing a couple days ago some evidence of verier rattic behavior that's just not going to wash in a delaware general election. >> okay, it's not going to wash. but joe, she won. if you start trashing her now and i were a tea party guy and say we went to the wall for the republicans here, here and here and now we win one and they're taking a walk on us and pushing argyle over to the side, i don't think that's smart politics. mike castle is gone.

ain't going to be any saving him. >> mark halprin, you've been talking for some time about how barack obama, after he finishes demagoguing social security will actually work a social security deal with republicans in the new congress. he'll work a budget deal with republicans in the new congress. pat really may have the take-away message here which is, after this primary season, no republican is going to want to do a deal with a democrat. >> i think a deal on something like immigration or energy is probably far fetched, but entitlement reform you might be able to do it because the core issue of the tea party movement is controlling government spending and reducing the deficit. >> what's your takeaway from yesterday? >> that the republicans may have lost the senate seat they may have won. it makes winning the senate probably impossible. but long term it's a dangerous message for the republican party. if they want to be a majority party, stla to nominate people who can win in the states they are running.

nominating somebody like this is good for sarah palin and jim demint in the short term. in the long term the party has to decide how it becomes a big ten and wins national elections, not just primaries. >> by the way, that's what karl rove said last night on sean hannity's show. he said we republicans have now lost the senate seat and it's going to make it next to impossible -- >> we shouldn't say the tea party movement is dangerous or evil or nutty. if they nominate people who can't win general elections, it's going to hurt the republican party. >> how do you ignore them, take paladino, for example, he goes to the party convention and gets 8% of the vote and this guy win it is nomination, what message does that send to the establishment? >> it is a state-by-state race. my example is sort of parallel to this example. when we had debates in '94,

there were like 150 people in my home county that were part of the party. they all got together. they said, okay, let's get representatives from all five camps to figure out who is going to -- what the rules are for the debate. they had to suspend it because out of the 150 top republican leaders in my home county, not one of them supported me. so sometimes some years running against the party is the best thing to do in '94 and 2010. >> you understand it also better than most around the table, politics and campaigns are about numbers, it's about math. if you have people who ordinarily don't vote come out in larger numbers, you have a clans to win. i do think the politics on its face suggest that the majority of americans may not rally around a tea party manifesto. but i will tell you this, if i'm running this year, even if i've won by 20 to 30 points each time, i'm scared. i get out and campaign like i've never campaigned before only because enthusiasm gap may not be great enough to overcome what clearly is an excitement on the

other side. so democrats and i dare say even republicans, as much as anti incumbent, people want change. as a group who has not participated before, they've got to come out. >> not just the east coast, but across america. let's go right now to washington, d.c. we've got democratic senator sharon brown from ohio. good to see you. >> thanks. >> we're talking about last night's results. obviously there's also upheaval in your home state, the ultimate belt weather state i believe right now, ohio. voters seem awfully angry, throwing out republican incumbents and democratic incumbents last night. what's the mood in ohio? >> the news in ohio is governor strickland had a debate last night and did very well with his challenger john kasic. i think the voters in ohio recognized that strickland inherited a mess and he's on track to fix things. the story of last night as i was listening to the conversation on my earpiece in the last few minutes, i think the story was

the national republican party, because they've endorsed eight candidates in eight different states who lost a primary or lost the caucus, i think the story is how out of touch national republican leadership is with their grassroots base. i think they have some work to do. i know democrats won't have a great year this year. i also know that republicans aren't particularly well liked either. in most polls republicans are even less liked than democrats. i understand the energy from last night with the tea party. but the republicans have some long-term serious problems when their national party endorses in eight different races in a space of about four months, in eight out of eight lose. i think that's a significant problem they've got to work through. >> that's bad news obviously for both sides. let's talk about ohio, though, and talk about how restless the voters are. ohio is a traditionally republican state that has swung democratic. now if you believe the most recent polls, it's swinging back

republican again. what is it about these independent voters, that they just can't seem to find a party to grab hold to? usually these swings happen every decade, every 15 years. now we're seeing it every two years. >> ohioans are upset with the status quo, of course. we've had 14 consecutive years of increased foreclosures in people's homes in ohio. 14 years in a row. not a lot of speculation and then drop in prices, but tough economic times. we've been in recession longer than most of the country. and not necessarily much deeper, but longer. but i think what's happened in ohio is that voters are going to look and i think they'll put it into perspective by election day, during bill clinton 22 million increased jobs in the private sector, eight years of george bush, one million, clinton, incomes went up, during george bush, incomes went down.

with rob portman, john kasic and mark dewine, the voters are asking to go back to people who gous into this situation. i think by election day voters will want to know if we want to go back to the deregulation of wall street, privatization of social security, cut tax ps for the rich and trade agreements that send jobs overseas, do we want to go back to that or trust the president and governor strickland to begin to bring us out of this recession. i think in the end that's where they go. >> senator, i like you, i liked working with you, but people are going to think i don't have a job, my neighbor doesn't have a job and our debt keeps going up. i thought we were going to spend all this money in washington and it was going to get us back on the road to recovery. it seems to me the situation is that americans are very angry and when they're very angry, they usually throw the party in power out of power. and yet this year, if you believe the polls, they like the republican party even less.

that just is the definition i think of political turmoil. they're not going to go back 20 years. they're just going to look around their neighborhood, right? >> they don't have to go back. they're going to look around their neighborhood. i think you imply or suggest some ignorance about the voter -- >> no, i don't. no, no, no. if you're out of work, you're not thinking republican and democratic and what happened 20 years ago. you're thinking this guy i elected who promised me hope and change told me if he spent $900 billion that unemployment wasn't going to go above 8% and everything would be okay. he told me that two years ago. >> i understand that. and i think the voters are smarter than that. i think voters, they look at these people on the ballot this year, the republican candidates who are simply saying that -- republicans aren't offering anything different from what george bush left us two years ago. more deregulation, more tax cuts for the rich, more trade

agreements that outsourced jobs. pat buchanan knows about these trade agreements, and why do we want to go back to those people that gave us this kind of economy? i think the voters scratch a little deeper than you're giving them credit for. and they'll say i'm mad as hell at the situation, but it's not governor strickland, it's not president obama, it's what we were left with. we were losing 800,000 jobs a month when obama took office. now we're gaining jobs. not fast enough by any stretch of the imagination. but we don't want to go back to those policies that got us into this situation to begin with over the last decade. >> mark? >> i want to ask you to take off your partisan had and put on your political analyst hat and tell us about your colleague across the aisle, jim demint, his endorsement a big deal. a lot of republicans are mad at him. what kind of guy is he? what do you think is animating him to go against his own party establishment as a united states senator? >> he's a nice guy.

he's a ranking member in my economic policy subcommittee and the banking committee which i chair. hees very conservative, a true believer. i give him credit for doing what he believes in. he doesn't much care -- i don't know for sure, but i think he doesn't much care about the republican party. he cares about his ideology. he's often obstructing in the senate. that's what he believes is the right thing to do. i don't agree with that. we've tried to move forward with things where we've had strong buy partisan support and jim has blocked it. he's trying to get ideological look-alikes in the senate and he has sharon engel, rand paul and o'donnell from last night and miller in alaska. >> good luck working with those guys next year. we'll see how that works out. >> if they make it. if they make it. sherrod, it's always great

talking to you. >> thanks. >> great guy. >> super guy. >> i can also tell you about jim demint. you want to know what motivates him? from what i've seen, just pure principle. he is as good a guy as you could meet in washington, d.c. he's not a yeller. never threatens anybody. she just believes that this is the right thing to do and he wants the republican party to be conservative from maine to southern california. from greenville, too, my wife's home found. so that helps him. >> greenville, south carolina, that is. >> isn't he a good guy. >> depends on how you define principle. he's consistent. i'm joking. he believes in what he's saying. and he's consistent. >> you can have principles on the right and the left. >> he's such an elitist, you know?

>> last best hope over here. forgive me, sir. >> how about kasic running against strickland, one of the more fascinating guys in politics. >> and aaron schock of illinois and later emmy award winning filmmaker rory kennedy about "the fence." first, here is bill karins with a check of the forecast. >> good morning everyone. two major hurricanes. a very rare event, beautiful site from far away. hurricane igor, category 4. hurricane julia, category 4. it's been 11 years since we've had two major hurricanes we've been tracking at the same time. thankfully neither will head for the u.s. igor will come the closest near bermuda and bring large waefgs to the east coast this weekend. tropical storm karl formed rapidly now making landfall in mexico. that will affect mexico again. it's not going to affect texas. forecastwise, nice and quiet,

fall-like day in new england. nice in d.c., 84. rest of the south is hot like summer. tomorrow, the bipartisan health challenge tomorrow morning 8:00 a.m. on the national mall. you're watching "morning joe" brewed by starbucks. ♪ ♪ [ male announcer ] every business day, bank of america lends billions of dollars, to individuals, institutions,

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working to set opportunity in motion. everyone knows a fee is a tax. you raised some taxes during that period, particularly the property tax as well as a lot of fee increases. as you know, there's a big difference between fees and taxes. but...they're the same. it's a tax. it's a tax. it's a tax. it's a tax. there's a big difference between fees and taxes. fees and taxes are one in the same. if it comes out of my pocket, it's a tax. now he says it isn't true. we didn't raise taxes. what? still doing the same thing, paying out more money. typical politician. definitely.

. this inherent racism, where does it come from? >> does the pope go to the bathroom in the woods? it's extremely racist. it soes so funny t tea baggers, the one thing they hate is when you call name racist. the other thing they hate is black people. >> oh, come on. >> bill maher on larry king last night. >> come on. that's just not fair. >> let's have savannah comment

on that. >> joining us from, nbc news white house correspondent. we should have you weigh in on the bipartisan health challenge on the national mall. can you talk about the excitement already today starting in washington? >> reporter: it's very exciting. everyone is talking about their jogging outfits and what they should wear. the only question i keep getting is will there be beer and cigarettes? i'm not sure what the answer is to that and doughnuts. >> if we're participating, there will be beer and cigarettes. we do encourage the larger paste stayer members, no shorts. >> savannah, let's talk business and how the white house might be feeling after last night's results. >> reporter: i think they're thrilled. in an election season that hasn't had a ton of good news for democrats, i think they're very, very happy to see what happened in delaware in the sense that they think this is a problem for republicans, not just in the short term in the

sense that this defeat in delaware of mike castle means suddenly delaware, which was leaned republican, is leaned democrat, which may have implications in terms of republicans being able to take the senate at all. those hopes might be gone with last nat's election results. they're also happy because of the long term. they think this is an example, yet another example of a republican party turning itself inside out. they say the conservative wing of the republican party is really holding sway, and they're looking ahead and saying, look, in 2012, how does a moderate republican like a mitt romney or a tim pawlenty, how does someone like that win in a republican primary? i think they feel very good, at least for their own fortunes, about what's happening in the republican party. they think this is a situation that the republican party leaders, the establishment leaders really don't have any control over. >> stay with us, savannah. i want to bring in aaron schock from illinois. congressman, good to see you. >> good morning.

>> we don't want this guy, whatever we call him tomorrow, airing because he's too healthy. aaron, if you could get fat colleagues of yours to stand next to willie and myself. look at me -- my head is bigger than your entire torso i'm so fat. find your fattest members and bring them out to this event if you will. >> i'll see what i can do. >> we were just talking to senator brown, talking about how the republican party has no control over its base. he gave a pretty compelling statistic. i think eight selections by the republican senatorial committee booted out of the primaries. why did the disconnect between the establishment republicans in d.c. and the base? >> well, i think what it says is that there's a new kind of voter showing up at the polls this election cycle. i know in my home state of illinois, a state that's the home of barack obama that the

people showing up even in our u.s. senate race and our gubernatorial primary this past february were completely different. the people that were projected to win our gubernatorial nomination did not win, and we nominated other folks that the electorate wanted instead. i think what it shows is that the typical voter, the motivated voter this election cycle is different than your typical election cycle in years past. >> mark halprin. >> congressman, as specifically as you can, explain what the tea party movement stands for? >> you know, in the district where i come from where i've met with the tea party groups in my district, the one thing nationwide that they talk about is physici is fiscal responsibility, the concern for the deficit. >> what do they want cut? >> they want us to stop growing, the size of government. and they want us to roll back a lot of federal workers that we've added. a lot of them talk about the

100-plus-thousand federal workers added in the last year and a half since obama was inaugurated. they talk about the stimulus bill which was a ramp-up over a ten-year period. so they first want all of that rolled back to 2008 spending levels. and then they want us to go in and try and cut. the republican conference has tried to respond, came up with a you-cut proposal where members of the public and members of congress can offer up ideas where we can cut. first, let's get back to the spending levels we had back in '08 which would save nearly a trillion dollars. then we can go and try to find more fat within the federal government that we can eliminate. >> harold ford. >> congressman and savannah, i love your thinking of what the bhous may be saying. congressman, do you think typical republicans will be able to join forces with atypical or new voters that have come out in this election cycle to try to help republicans win, to help the tea party candidates to win?

do you think typical republicans will stay home which is the conventional thinking and advantage democrats in some of the key states? >> i think, harold, at the end of the day republican voters and tea party voters are motivated together, are unified together in concern for the country and the direction that this president and congress is taking this nation. while they may not agree in the primary about which candidate is best to lead the republican ticket, at the end of the day, they're going to see president obama, speaker pelosi and harry reid in the congress and see our republican candidates who are offering substantially different directions, substantially different alternatives and they're going to say at the end of the day, you know what? we need to clip the president's wings, moderate his and dane and restore some balance in congress. we're going to go out and vote for the republican candidates. i think that's at the end of the day way we have a great shot of taking back control of congress. >> savannah, when the white house looks at the results of last night's primaries and see

some new opportunities there, does it give them any motivation overall? you had a very dispirited white house as we've been heading into these primaries and looking toward the general election in november. >> reporter: no question about it. this has given them a little verv in their step, no question about it. they know they're in trouble in terms of these midterm elections. first of all, history tells you you're going to lose seats. everything about the polls suggests they're going to lose a lot more than what is typical. this is something they can point to and say, you know what, republicans, they're not that much better off than themselves. they may think they're going to win because the economy is so poor. i had one senior official say anybody could win in this environment with this economy. what they think is indicative of a republican party with long-term problems that it frankly does not know how to handle. for that i think it gives a little more energy, and i think you'll probably see democratic national committee going forward

starting to make the most of what republican primary voters have done in all these elections. these candidates who have said in some cases, some kind of off-the-wall things, i think democrats will try to seize on this opportunity and say, look, voters this is who you're voting for when you vote republican. >> start carb loading for tomorrow. congressman schock, thank you so much. we'd just as soon not see you tomorrow because you're too healthy. >> why are you so healthy? >> i work out every morning. >> stop. >> maybe you need to come to talk to mika about that. >> congressman, thank you so much. >> thanks, guys. good to be with you. still ahead, filmmaker rory kennedy gives us a preview of the new documentary that gives her the impact of "the fence" along the u.s.-mexico border. we'll be right back.

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democratic candidate for governor of california just days after brown mocked clinton during a recent campaign appearance. earlier this week brown apologized for his statements in which he questioned clinton's honesty and joked about the monica lewinsky scandal. yesterday clinton issues his endorsement in a statement saying, quote, i strongly support jerry brown for governor because i believe he was a fine mayor of oakland, he's been a very good attorney general and would be an excellent governor. moreover, the tough campaign we fought 18 years ago is not relevant to the choice facing californians today. jerry and i put that behind us a long time ago. >> he's a different bill clinton, forgiving, gracious. >> he's a statesman. >> always been extremely forgiving, now he's hyper extremely fov are forgiven. there's bad blood between them, but california democrats and clinton allies saw that he would come around. they need a unified democratic

party to try to save the governorship. >> not the first time he's heard that joke either. three new polls show senator harry reid and sharon engel locked in a dead heat forn the race for u.s. senate, the two ties with reid within a two point lead. fox news has engel leading by one point. reid said he is satisfied with where he is in the polls. dutch police have arrested and fined an america delta pilot who was drunk and about to take off with a jet full of passengers. officials haven't identified the pilot but said he is a 52-year-old captain from an unnamed state in the northeast. >> jersey. >> new jersey. police say the pilot was fined $900 and released. the flight, we're happy to report, was canceled. delta said it suspended the pilot pending an investigation. we'll be right back with nbc news political director chuck todd. don't forget you can always

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i specifically want to thank the 912 patriots for laying the foundation and stirring things up in delaware. the founders values group and all of the delaware tea party groups. you guys are the visionaries and leaders who made this possible.

>> that's christine o'donnell, the big story this morning, an upset over mike cass nl delaware. i'm going to go out on a limb and say she wrote a wave of anti establishment. >> discontent, anger. >> she did. the big story of the morning. chris, a lot of results to get through to the people. chris, what are they say sng. >> we have brook in south kings town, rhode island who saying i love you guys so much, i can't get enough of willie and joe and mika for a couple more hours. what about rhode island? we're so small. we forgot. what happened in rhode island? >> i can tell you. providence's openly gay mayor david sicily any won. he's vying to replace the democratic congressman patrick kennedy who announced plans to step down earlier this year. >> let's check in more with nbc news chief white house correspondent and political director chuck todd. good morning, chuck.

>> good morning, willie. >> let's get your take on what happened last night. what's the theme? what's the takeaway? >> i think there's a couple things fascinating about this. one is in hindsight why are we surprise thad somebody who is an old school rockefeller moderate republican in mike castle ended up not surviving in a year like this in hindsight is more surprising than the fact that a lisa murkowski -- him surviving would have been more surprising than lisa murkowski or thing like that, meaning it's been a shock to see the murkowskis and bob bennetts of the world personaled from the party less so than an arlen specter or mike castle. the other thing is i know a lot of attention will be paid to sarah palin and some of the roles she's played in this. but real player here, particularly in the senate come the start of the new senate because some of these tea party candidates will make it through. she's probably not. others will make it through. it's going to be the role of jim

demint both in the senate, conservative south carolina senator, and in the presidential race. and in the president primary. there was one republican, rich lowery of national review, he was tweeting last night, one thing we learned in delaware is that the probably the republican presidential primary took a step to the right last night. it's a reminder it's going to be that much more of a conservative nominee that is going to come out. we're not saying it's going to come from the jim demint wing of the party. but as somebody put it, somebody is going to run as the republican -- the conservative from the conservative wing of the republican party and is going to get real traction, isn't just going to be sort of a gad fly. >> pat buchanan, we heard at the top of the show, karl rove, other national republicans lamenting christine o'donnell's victory saying it's bad news for the republican party. you had a little different reaction as you were turning in

to bed last night? >> a huge whoop and cheer. >> you stunned shelly you screamed so loud. >> she was cheering, too. let me ask chuck this question. it seems to me -- i think your analysis is correct, but this americans with disabilities act it almost imperative, it seems to me, like candidates like haley barbour, mitch daniels and governor romney, they go right on board, go down, embrace this gal and help her out. and the republican party, too, the establishment -- this is the future. it may be borning right now, they have to bring those folks in and embrace them, do they not? >> it's your harkening back to me in my head is remember the ned lamont victory in

connecticut and ned lamont became a litmus test in the democratic president primary, and hillary clinton and john edwards and barack obama all had to endorse -- be seen as endorsing lamont, doing something active for lamont. that's interesting. does it become a litmus test? if romney, pawlenty and haley barbour don't help christine o'donnell, will they pay a price six months from now? pat, you tell me, an elephant never forgets, right? >> right. >> it's going to be something that does punish those in the establishment wing of the republican party if we throw her aside. >> chuck, let me tell you, i go back -- nelson rockefeller would not put on barry goldwater's button. richard nixon campaigned in 40 states for barry goldwater. nixon became president. rockefeller wound up being thrown off gerald ford's ticket. you've got to embrace the true

believers in the party if you want them to embrace you when you're the nominee. >> it's a very fair point on this litmus test thing. i think it's going to be something that it's going to complicate the efforts. look, if lisa murkowski is calling the tea party express an extremist outside group. remember, this is a republican senator, not a moderate republican senator. this is a mainstream conservative republican senator using that kind of rhetoric, it's really putting some of these republican leaders in washington in a box. are they going to side with o'donnell naand joe miller or rebuick and punish people like lisa murkowski at the expense of potentially losing general elections. >> lisa murkowski is not going to rain on pat buchanan's parade this morning. when we come back, we'll be joined by film director rory

kennedy with a new documentary out on a controversial subject. that's next on "morning joe." ♪ [ upbeat instrumental ] [ rattling ] [ gasps ] [ rattling ] [ laughing ] [ announcer ] close enough just isn't good enough. - if your car is in an accident, - [ laughing continues ] make sure it's repaired with the right replacement parts. take the scary out of life with travelers. call or click now for an agent or quote.

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and eight feet deep in the ground. it's anywhere from 5 to 18 foot high. and it is filled with concrete. is it scaleable? yeah, if you get a rope ladder, you could scale this. the easiest thing to do, frankly, is just, if you go about a mile down this road here, there is no fence. so rather than trying to scale it here, they'll just go a mile down the road and walk across. >> that was a scene from the new hbo documentary "the fence," which looks at the border fence between mexico and the united states. with us now, filmmaker rory kennedy, daughter of robert f. kennedy and writer, producer, and director of the film. rory, great to see you again. >> great to be here. >> let's talk about why you took on this hot-button subject, a subject that's become more hot-button with all that's going on in arizona right now. >> yeah. well, i think "the fence" is kind of defining who we are as a nation. that we built this fence on the southern border with mexico. it raises a lot of important

issues that relate to immigration, the war on drugs, the war on terror. and also, i think it addresses how our legislators and policymakers are spending our tax dollars, questioning whether this fence is really an effective way to deal with these issues. >> and part of the fence it's not just about immigration, it's about national security. what did you find in studying the fence? does it actually help protect the united states? >> well, what we found, actually, is that there have been no terrorists who have ever come into the united states through the mexico border. so it hasn't been really effective in reducing that number, because there was no number there to begin with. >> mark, the politics of this certainly very hot, especially in places like arizona right now. >> you know, i'm not sure about the efficacy of the fence, but i think as a matter of political symbolism, it's essential. because there is a political consensus amongst political elites that before you can get to the kind of comprehensive

immigration reform that i think's essential to solve the problem, the american people have to be convinced that everything has been done to close the border. even if the fence doesn't work, isn't it possible that the symbolism of it is something you can use to sell the american people on supporting immigration reform? >> i don't think so. because i think that we're -- we should be beyond symbols. we shouldn't just be taking on issues and spending $3.7 billion of taxpayers' money on something that doesn't work. you know, this is a 670-mile fence on a 2,000-mile border. so when people aren't climbing over it or going under or in some cases driving over it, they're simply walking around it. >> chi-chi bang bang for that, how do they drive over the fence? >> they actually put these structures up and they drive over the fence. >> wow. >> in some case, the fence is five feet high, in other cases, it's 18 feet high. it's ineffective and it is just a symbol. and i'm not sure that given our economy right now, we should be

investing in things that are simply a symbol. >> rory, we have pat buchanan in washington. pat actually spends his weekend on the border, helping to build fences, putting in chain link, whatever he can do. >> he's shocked to hear people can drive over his work. >> we have a more complex idea in mind, willie. when i was out in imperial beach, 1991, they were coming in at 5,000 a weekend. they built a 14-mile fence in from imperial beach, 14 miles inland. and duncan hunter, my friend, the congressman said, 98% of the murders, 98% of the crime, 100% of the truck traffic that was running across the border and 95% of the illegal aliens coming in were stopped by those 14 miles because people had to go around into the desert, and they couldn't walk straight across. now, can't a fence do something? and is he wrong? >> well, i would say he's probably right for that 14 miles, but what happens is is

then they drive 14 miles down the way and they walk around the fence and then they don't use those statistics, about what is the overall number of reduction of immigrants coming into the united states, the number of drugs coming into the united states, the number of terrorists coming into the united states through that border. and those numbers have not been reduced because of the fence. >> isn't that an argument for building the entire fence, the 2,000 miles and the ones i've seen proposed have 100 openings, but you build it the entire 2,000 miles, you will certainly reduce the number of people coming into the united states. >> well, that would cost, i imagine, tens of billions of dollars, given the landscape you would have to build that over. and i think that what we found both in history as well as what's happening with the fence on the mexico border is that people are going to continue to climb over it, go under it. they're a very resourceful lot. they're going to continue to get through it. so i'm not sure that that's a

solution to our very complex issues around immigration, the drug war, and the war on terror. >> anything change your mind? ten seconds. anything that you would change your mind on afterwards? >> i went in there with -- i didn't have a clear idea of all the implications of the fence and i really felt more and more stronger that this is a bad idea for our nation, it's the wrong symbol that we want to send to our friendly neighbors in mexico. we're not in a war with mexico. that there's a demand on the u.s. for these jobs. we have to recognize that. there's a demand in the u.s. for drugs, we've got to recognize that. and take that into account with these policies that we're creating in washington. >> rory kennedy, thanks so much. the film looks great. it's called "the fence." it airs tomorrow night, 8:00 on hbo. congratulations on the film. >> congrats. >> thank you so much. thanks for having me. nice talking to you. coming up next, a complete breakdown of all the big primary races. f the carry-on.

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you know, that's not true. they never thought that we would win, and they never thought we'd win as big as we did. so what this whole campaign is about is making the impossible possible. so it's a shame, i think a few people got their pride bruised last night. a few of the so-called experts proved that once again they were wrong. this is a very unpredictable political season where anything goes. >> she's talking about you, joe, the so-called experts predicted her demise. >> oh, no -- >> in your face. >> as i've always told you,

willie geist, you can't really classify as me or you an expert in the morning, because we're always drunk. so when we come in here actually inebriated, who's going to call us an expert? >> i don't think that disqualifies my expertise, just means it's heightened. >> you know, sometimes i think i get stronger and smarter and faster when i do certain things. anyway. i explained, i am a constitutional scholar, as you know. i booked -- i booked my con law class at university of florida law school, which means absolutely nothing. and we were checking the constitution last night. >> on the ipad app. >> on the ipad app, where we have the constitution checker. and willie and i both found that there is no provision in the constitution that says a political party has to take power, if they don't want to. so this is -- what happened last night in delaware, willie, do we not find -- this is the perfectly within the republican

party's right. if they don't -- if they want harry reid to be senate majority leader again, because they like what he did so much the last four years, they can keep him. so they can elect her and sharron angle and others like that. that is their constitutional right, correct? >> they're sticking to their core beliefs, which is strict constitutional adherence, and they stuck to that last night. >> well, they're constitute -- the tea parties like the constitution. they're constitutionalists. >> so what we're saying is -- >> what are we saying? what we're saying mark halperin is what karl rove said last night on sean hannity's show, which is, it just got a lot harder for the republican party to take over the majority in the united states senate. that's karl rove. not some left-wing blogger. that's karl rove. on sean hannity's show. >> but i think pat's critique of karl's tone, though, is spot-on. which is, it doesn't do the party any good to attack her -- >> to tell the truth? how do you attack her by saying,

it just got harder for the republican party to win the senate? >> because he impugned her like a left-wing blogger, in terms of saying he said she's got morality problems and ethics problems and she's said things that are untoward. >> does she? >> she seems to, but i don't think -- >> well -- politics of personal destruction, telling the truth about a candidate -- >> i think karl could emphasize something else. ekd emphasize the fact that the party needs to find a way to come together and incorporate the energy of the tea party movement, even if in this case it means they lost a senate seat over it. >> all right. well, pat buchanan, you let out a rebel yell last night in mcclain, virginia, heard all the way down to vienna. why were you so excited about this victory in delaware that will certainly, almost certainly assure that harry reid, if he wins in nevada, will be the majority leader for two more years? >> it was the heart, not the head responding. the truth is -- no, that's the truth. look, here's a very attractive young woman, fresh and maybe

she's not schooled, et cetera, but she's knocked off somebody, a big rockefeller republican, the greatest night of her life. and you've got to rejoice with her, and rove's attitude, his analysis may be spot-on, but his attitude looked contemptuous, to me. and i'll tell you, my guess is this morning, people that look at that karl rove, if we run the whole clip, i don't see how you respond positively to that. i mean, i think what romney has to do and people like that is to say, look, we can't win without these folks with us. they won this one. let's go down there and help them. we lost. we may not have liked it. but let's get together. that's the only way we're going to win in 2012. the senate may be out of reach. >> speaking, willie of attractive, young, fresh, we ha have matt lewis with us, and that's just exciting. >> i laugh. >> matt, you're a columnist for

politics daily, matt, there was a pretty clear choice here. republicans and conservatives could go with their heart, like pat buchanan, and vote the way they voted, or they could go with castle, a guy that most people believe was a lock to pick up joe biden's seat. they went with their heart, not with their head. >> yeah. it's more fun, by the way. i've been on -- before i started writing, you know, just as a sort of grassroots guy, you can walk into the polling place. the fun vote would be to vote for christine o'donnell. and most voters, especially the turnout for a midterm primary was high. so the kind of people who came out who don't always come out to the polls, they're not thinking strategically about who's going to help, you know, john boehner or who's going to help, you know, mitch mcconnell. they're thinking about what's fun, how could we have a little revolution here. >> and they're angry. they're obviously angry and they look at some of mike castle's votes and they say, wait a second, he voted with the democrats on some of these issues. i want to send a message. >> absolutely.

and let's be honest. i mean, mike castle is a liberal republican. i mean, at the very best, you would call him a moderate. so as i heard chuck todd earlier saying, i think he's dead-on. mike castle was in a way more vulnerable than even lisa murkowski in terms of his voting record and voting for cap and trade and what not. i also think pat made a great point. he mentioned the attractiveness of this candidate. i don't think you could understate that. you know, when you're sort of a gadfly, it doesn't matter, but once people start paying attention to you and you're on tv, i can tell you the optics last night, just flipping around watching tv, the b-role when you see this old, tired white guy, mike castle, versus the vivacious, young christine o'donnell, it was a stark contrast. >> and she also has the same lettering as dunkin doughnuts. i would have voted for her as well -- no, i wouldn't. there's another dynamic here,

for anyone who has ever run against a woman in a competitive race, i have. sometimes when you make your most effective counterpunches, i mean, i had a debate in my first campaign against a very effective female campaign, just a knockout blow. it was unbelievable. and i just went, i'm going, i got it locked up. the next day, basically, all the papers called me a bully. >> rick lazio versus hillary clinton all over again. >> it is the same exact thing. and this woman got absolutely eviscerated by the national republican party, but "the weekly standard," by everybody, left and right, and it just made her a more sympathetic figure, chris? >> do you think -- i mean, in the converse, did they do that? and secondly, what was the level of miscalculation on the part of the establishment that allowed this?

because it's just not all on the other side. it's not just about these tea party folks who say, hey, let's go in the voting booth and have some fun. on the other side, there had to be a big miscalculation, didn't there? >> i don't think it's a miscalculation to say, let's get a guy -- here's just a crazy idea. let's get a republican to run for this seat who's been elected statewide 18 times, who will take over a seat in the united states senate that we haven't held in decades. >> not a miscalculation in who they chose to back, a miscalculation in the way they chose to back it. they obviously didn't get their people up to the polls. >> i don't think. they were up against this wave, this zeitgeist. but i would say that castle was pretty smart strategically. he came out fairly early and fairly aggressively. i don't know that you could have played his cards any better than he did. it was just, he was up against this monumental wave. >> and by the way, i was -- i e-mailed chuck todd yesterday and just said, this is going to be tough. i don't see how castle wins this

thing, only because you've got an off year election, you've got an energized base. mike castle may have the whole world on his side, but in 2010, right now, he's got -- he's actually the one going against the headwind. >> i disagree. i think he kicked it into gear, as did the national party and the state party, but only after lisa murkowski lost. >> that's right. >> they only then said, we need to follow a different playbook, unlike lisa murkowski who didn't go negative on miller. they went negative on her, but it was too late. and they did it in a way -- again, this goes to pat's point. if you're the republican party and you want to fight the tea party, you cannot do it in a way that disrespects them or doesn't show an appreciation for their issues and their emotions and their involvement. and castle, in an effort to stop her, was not about issues, it was always about personal attacks. >> he also reinforced her message, sometimes, by talking about her lack of experience. guess what? voters want somebody who doesn't have experience. >> and bringing endorsements from national politicians. >> and actually, chuck e-mailed

he back yesterday going, the republicans in washington were rolling their eyes at mike castle, was criticizing her saying, she doesn't know the ways of washington. doh! >> highest compliment you can pay. >> so willie, i understand, you are -- when the tea party has a message they want to get out to america, they usually call you on the upper west side and they did it again last night. you've got a statement for us. >> i'll do their bidding again today. the tea party express spokesman responding to the national republican senatorial committee, who appears not going to funnel money in. they say, "you tried to force through the most liberal republican in congress on the voters of delaware and they rejected you. wake up, you are defying your own base and will end up an irrelevant and impotent organization that serves only to amuse the corrupt political establishment in washington, d. d.c.." >> matt lewis, those are fighting words. "impotent." >> first of all, let's give the tea party express credit here. a lot of people are talking

about palin, a lot of people are talking about demint, but they're really the common thread of the big upset primary wins, the sharron angle, whether you think that's good or bad, they helped make it happen. they're sort of the first responder. and then you see palin and demint and others get on board later. and also, you know, up in alaska, same thing. joe miller against, you know, against murkowski. so the tea party express -- but, look, i think the nrc made a huge mistake last night. apparently sources said they're not going to help fund christine o'donnell. why do you want to say that on election night? maybe it's true, but they should say, we'll have to target our resources, but if she's within five points on halloween, we'll look a it. but this looks like they were intentionally sticking it to christine o'donnell last night and her voters, more importantly. >> i agree with you 100%. i think karl rove, who's paid by fox news to be a fox news contributor, and knows a thing

or two about winning off year elections, go back to what he did in 2002, remarkable, i think karl rove has every right to say that, and he should say that. that's why he gets paid. but you're exactly right, republican organizations in washington, d.c., they've got a responsibility to the party to circle the wagons. and say, okay, you know what, she's on our team now. >> right. that's their job. my job is something different, which is more fun to do, to get to do what i do. >> much more fun. no responsibility whatsoever. we just say whatever we want. >> predict right now, will sarah palin go into delaware and do a public event for this woman before the election day? >> yeah. i think so. >> so that's going to be a big test. because what the establishment -- some establishment republicans are saying, to go along with what matt said, okay, sarah palin, jim demint, you got her the nomination, now show she can be a competitive general election candidate, do rallies, raise money to fire up the base. >> lord knows i'm not a

establishment republican. establishment republicans hate me for the most part, and i thank you for, after you bankrupted america and got us into two wars you don't know how to get us out of, but i blame sarah palin. i don't blame anybody in this, i don't blame the voters of delaware, i don't blame -- sarah palin has power. she certainly has power this year in 2010, and sometimes she use as her power for good, in south carolina, pat buchanan. where she helps political superstars get kki haley, who i great leaders of the republican party in the future, but in delaware, i think she backed somebody who can't win a general election campaign. >> well, that may be accurate, but i'll tell you this. not only will sarah palin be in there, i will bet you that mitt romney will go in and campaign for this woman. and joe, listening to the folks

up there, we're talking about guys getting together, the republican senate campaign committee, they say, let's get castle, the liberal here, he can win, he can win. they're all deciding this as insiders, and what delaware was saying is, hey, wait, do we get to get involved in these decisions to? are we the grassroots folks? do we have a right to also pick candidates, or are you going to just tell us who we should vote for, because the strategy advised in washington is the way you can win. and what the folks are saying here is, we want a role here and we will decide at the local level who the candidate's going to be. >> they have that right, but i wouldn't cast this vote as an anti-washington vote. i'd cast it as an anti-victory vote, because you can say, the people in washington, d.c., have strategized, but you and i both know, mike castle would have won this seat for the republican party. we know that. we know that o'donnell is --

this is an uphill battle at best. so it's not like some guys are smoking cigars and say, i like castle because we go to the redskins games together. pat, you and i both know, castle would have won this seat, o'donnell most likely won't. >> they are saying, we would rather fight and lose with one of our own, like goldwater, than win with one of yours, like rockefeller. but this spirit is out there, and again, if you're going to win in 2012, you have to bring it in. >> okay. just really quickly, talking about 2012. i just have to get this out, because i've heard for the past couple of hours that these elections in 2010 are going to actually make the candidate more conservative in 2012. it's counterintuitive, the opposite is true. the opposite is true. because you have elections like clinton in '92, obama in 2008 that fire up the base. and what happens is, you have a midterm that corrects by going

too far left to too far right. and then two years after that, you elect establishment republicans like nixon in '68. you can look at the '66, pat, republican revolution. gives us an establishment candidate, nixon in '68. you can look at gingrich in '94, gives us bob dole in '96. there is always this back and forth. we're going to dart way right, and you watch, mitt romney, mark it down this morning. mitt romney is the benefactor of the lunge to the right, because it's a correction from obama lunging left, and by '12, americans come back to the center. >> well, here's the thing. i think, look, romney's got to realize, just like nixon realized in 1964, if he was going to run in '68, i've got to now have not the rockefeller people, i've got to get well with the goldwater people, because the center of gravity of the party is moving right. and we recognize that.

romney realizes that there's an enormous force out here, and if he, a moderate conservative republican, is going to win, that force has got to be behind him. that would dictate to me that i go right into delaware, stand up beside that lady and say, we're going to fight, we're behind now, and get behind her. what do you lose by doing something like that? >> you lose absolutely nothing. mark -- >> i'll tell you why i'm not sure the historical analogies you bring up work in this case. to say, i think it is possible, and a lot of people who advise barack obama believes this more likely, that the republican nominee will be too far to the right to win. one is, we didn't have fox news and other organs like that back in the past, which is a huge driver of keeping the tea party victory momentum going and keeping republican presidential candidates to pander. and i think on the six, seven, eight people who can win the republican nominee, very few of them will have the political skill and courage to run for the party's nomination while the tea party is in ascenascendance.

>> when goldwater won that election, a lot of people got excited and involved who had never been involved before. some of them were naive and left the party, but others became more sophisticated as time went on and you end up with ronald reagan. and that's what we're seeing here. this amazing energy. some people don't know what to do with it. some people like marco rubio and matt toomey, highly credible candidates, will benefit. you'll have other candidates who are washed in, maybe they shouldn't be. and i'm hoping there's a ronald reagan to come some day from this. >> and if you look at all the people that are going to win this year, you talked about marco rubio. if rubio wins -- >> this guy is a rock star. >> a rock star. he is from the state of florida, he's a hispanic. i mean, he is a dream candidate for the national republican party. in south carolina, nikki haley, i guarantee you nikki haley is going to be on a national ticket one day.

i met her and three minutes after meeting her at the south carolina gubernatorial debate, i turned to mika and i said, thank god. thank god there's somebody -- there's somebody i can get excited about. paul ryan, nikki haley, marco rubio. there are young republicans coming up through the rank that actually will give this party, i think you're right, a bench that will carry them forward for a decade. >> matt, stay with us. coming up next -- >> do you agree he's young and fresh and new and exciting. >> and attractive. i saw you wrote that down too. >> that's pat's. >> coming up, what last night's primaries mean for president obama. the "politico playbook" is straight ahead. and later, the face of facebook. "the new yorker's" exclusive interview with billionaire 26-year-old mark zuckerberg. but first, here's bill karins with your check of the forecast. >> thanks, willie. good morning, everyone. just got the update from the national hurricane center that tropical storm karl is making landfall in mexico. just north of the belize, mexico, border.

winds are somewhere around 60 to 70 miles per hour. it almost made it up to hurricane strength. the other two hurricanes out there in the atlantic basin are huge, monster category 4 storms. hurricane igor, which we've talked a lot about this week, still harmlessly out to sea. right behind it, hurricane julia, now a cat 4. very rare to get one that far out in the atlantic. as far as the forecast goes, none of those storms are going to affect the east coast anytime soon and it looks like they should miss completely. the forecast today looks gorgeous out there. what a great fall day from d.c. to philly, baltimore, new york, even boston's not bad. a little cool at 71. hot conditions from texas to florida. watch out, travel trouble spot is going to be kansas city all the way up into areas of minneapolis. and remember, tomorrow, 8:00 a.m., if you're in d.c., come out to the national mall. "morning joe," willie, mika, and joe will all be out there for the bipartisan health challenge. forecast looks pretty nice, 66 degrees and partly cloudy skies. you're watching "morning joe," brewed by starbucks. my name is vonetta, and i suffer from allergies.

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all right, gulsby, you're the new face of the summer of recovery. spin us with some happy talk. >> this recession is the deepest in our lifetimes. >> i don't think the unemployment rate will be coming down significantly anytime in the near future. i don't expect it to go down appreciably. the labor market is significantly weakened, has been

for some time. >> oh, i'm sorry, i was just making a ramen noodle news. >> joining us now, the chief white house correspondent for politico, mike allen with a look at the morning playbook. hey, mike. >> now, look at mike. mike is wearing a shirt that he bought last night. mike, tell us about the wonderful event that mika had along with susan axelrod and j-mack. >> this was a lot of fun. this was in georgetown at jay mclaughlin and mika was there and invited people to come shop. part of the money went to cure that great group that susan axelrod started to help find a cure for epilepsy after her own family coped with that. so not only do i have this shirt, the shirt was picked out by tammy hadhag, approved by mika, and before the night was over, lewis bergdorf had an endorsement deal. >> with jay mclaughlin. i don't even want to hear about

that. chris just asked me, is it true that they ran out of vodka, even before the guests arrived, with mika there? >> there was plenty of beverages, white wine, red wine, water, the whole deal. i also have two ties and they're also tammy approved. >> mika loves her jay mclaughlin. >> and vodka too. >> and the best part, mika's mom in the house. >> that's always kind of -- that is a dangerous mix. did she insult mika publicly? saying she had the lowest s.a.t. score in williams history? >> no, it was all smiles yesterday. >> because she's prone to do that. >> she usually shows her up. >> she's tough. >> let's pick up on what we were talking about a few minutes ago, and that is what last night's primary results might mean for the president and for the 2012 election. >> yeah, this is the other side of the coin you were just talking about. you were saying, what does it do for republicans? for president obama, it's

fantastic. this puts the president in a great position going into 2012. he's going to have all these characters in the senate to run against. he's going to have many more foils, more effective foils than he would if it were a sort of more mainstream republican party. this is a huge problem that republican leaders on both sides are going to face. we saw it over the weekend. john boehner, he's trying to be a george mitchell-like figure, someone who can work with the white house. someone who is not going to be a bomb thrower. and yet, if he becomes speaker, it's going to be because bomb throwers put him in office. same thing with mitch mcconnell. he's going to have all these people in his caucus who are not only not beholden to him, but in fact have every incentive to buck him. they don't need the republican party. that's how they got here. six, seven, eight, depending on how you count it of the establishment candidates lost this time. you'll have a republican caucus full of people who want to cause trouble. that's good if you're barack obama trying to make a case against the other side.

>> good news for the president last night. mike allen, thanks so much. it's a hell of a handsome shirt you've got on. >> it's beautiful, isn't it? >> really great. >> a great event to find a cure for epilepsy. >> thanks, mike. coming up, the day's top business headlines with cnbc's erin burnett. ♪

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cnbc's international superstar, erin burnett, she's live at the new york stock exchange. what are you look at today? >> we have some headlines crossing, i'm looking down, taking some notes here. so latest reading on the economy. today we found out that prices in the u.s. for imports, and that includes a lot of gasoline that we buy, rose two times for quickly than anybody had thought. the take out gasoline, not so much. but still, it does put a little bit of a blow to that theory that we're in this sort of spiral down, where prices are dropping. >> i was going to the ask you about that. it's damned if you do, damned if you don't. people might complain about inflation, but all we've been hearing about is the danger of stagflation. that shows that's not a problem, right? and that's good news? >> it is good news. we don't seem to have a deflationary problem, at least from the data we have here. and keep in mind, at 9:15 today is a really important number. and some argue this is the most important number to watch for the economy. it's called capacity

utilization. it may sound boring, but it's our factories operating at full capacity. >> for the record, it does sound boring. >> let me tell you why it's far from boring, it's scintillating. it's our factories in america running, and are they running at full capacity? there's a magic number for how much our factories are used. when we hit that number, we usually start see investment in new factories, investment in new equipment, and hiring. and there's a strong correlation there. that's why you have to look at this number. we're likely going to see american factories a little bit busier than they were the month before, but still far below the 20-year average, and far below the point where you would see sharp increases in hiring. so watch that number today. because if we get a real disappointment and we're looking for about 78.4%, that would be a very big negative for the market. >> what's the market looking like right now? >> the market's looking down, partially, because we did get some data out of new york in terms of the manufacturing in the new york region that was much weaker than expected earlier this morning. so that's causing us to go down a little bit. as you know, though, recently, we were down a little bit

yesterday, but it's been a very strong september for the markets overall on the mechanism that things aren't great, but they're not terrible. >> we're not falling off a cliff. did you see "the wall street journal" article, below the fold, "obstacle to deficit cuts: a nation of entitlements." let's get these numbers now. 50% of americans now almost get entitlements. and 50% of americans don't pay income taxes. >> that's right. >> you talk about two horrific trends -- >> yep. >> 50% of americans do not pay taxes to the federal government on their income. >> mm-hmm. >> and 50% of americans are on entitlement programs and both of those numbers are going up. >> right. and this, i guess, gets to the heart of sort of where people stand politically. you know, those who argue for increasing the deficit right now say the single biggest chunk of the american deficit is linked to the economy.

about nearly 40% of it. so the only way to get that to go down is more people to pay taxes. and that means invest now, borrow money, get those people back to work. get those entitlement numbers down. your tax numbers up. take care of the deficit that way. on the other side, they say, no, you're creating a nation where you have more and more people reliant on the federal government. those are your two sides politically. >> and that's just the lunacy, when i hear people out there going, the poor, the middle class, they're carrying the burden of tax -- 50% of americans don't pay taxes. 50% of americans do not pay taxes. and that's fine. god bless them. but if you get 50% of americans not paying taxes and that number's going up, and 50% of americans getting entitlements and that number's going up, willie, i'm not a mathematician. >> no, you're not. >> that's not good news, is it? >> obviously, fewer people have jobs, more people will not be

paying taxes. >> it comes down to jobs. >> superstar, erin burnett, see you soon. >> god comes into it? >> you got a problem with god coming into it? >> here we go. >> i'm just joking. president obama has accused tea partyers being a party of no. one republican senator yesterday said no. that's next in our political roundtable. hey, did you ever finish last month's invoices? sadly, no. oh. but i did pick up your dry cleaning and had your shoes shined. well, i made you a reservation at the sushi place around the corner. well, in that case, i better get back to these invoices... which i'll do right after making your favorite pancakes. you know what? i'm going to tidy up your side of the office. i can't hear you because i'm also making you a smoothie. [ male announcer ] marriott hotels & resorts knows it's better for xerox to automate their global invoice process so they can focus on serving their customers. with xerox, you're ready for real business.

when it comes to just about everything we've done to strengthen our middle class, to rebuild our economy, almost every republican in congress says no. even on things we usually agree on, they say no. if i said the sky was blue, they'd say no.

>> no, no. so, willie, you know, family's important to us. >> oh, yeah. >> right? >> yeah! >> you better believe it. susan tells me that all the time. so when somebody tells us that christine mcdonald did -- >> o'donnell. >> -- this morning, she couldn't come on this show because she's busy. >> well, joe, it's the morning after. >> she's busy. she's tire, she's tired, she wants to be with the family. i'm a family guy, i understand. >> of course. we accepted that. >> it speaks well of her. >> it does speak well of her. and i take back everything i said, and i'm sorry, because she wanted to be with family. i did just find out, though, while, refusing to do us, now, bannister runs her operation, right? >> always good friends to the program. >> i love diana and craig. love his stuff. >> salt of the earth. >> craig's not salt of the earth, he's a historian. i love him. not that there's anything wrong with being a historian who's

salt of the earth. but anyway, this family person, she's tired too. >> she's holed up with the family. >> she is, right now, in a little cubby hole. >> they're making blueberry waffles. >> but in between those waffles coming out of the waffle iron, she's been on abc, been on cbs, she's been on nbc -- the "today" show. it's very easy, just flip it over. >> toggle the switch. >> but she's gone. she's been on cnn. she's been on fox. >> wow. >> but she won't come on our show. and i guess she said she's been on hallmark. >> she was. >> i think with bing crosby. one of those thing where is they superimpose them together. >> and she is, word just coming across the wire, she will be doing mtv news with -- i can't even say it! he'll be doing mtv news with kirk loader in about ten minutes. >> good get by loader. >> is he still there? >> he's good. yeah, he's still there. >> that fake moon rock backdrop.

>> i love how that thing spins around. christine o'donnell, not on "morning joe" today. >> she's not coming on? >> she's not going to come on. >> well, she's had a busy morning. she's tired. >> she's with her family! willie, i'm not going to let you kick a woman who puts her family and a waffle -- >> get her on the m-track and have her come down and do the walk tomorrow. >> yeah, okay. >> she and snooki wouldn't do this we're a little hurt. we'll get over it, though. maybe we can get her after she wins that senate campaign. oh, wait! >> you don't hold a grudge. you'll bring her on, at any time, you'll welcome her into the fold. >> i don't hold a grudge. that's the thing about me. i've had people say horrible things about me. >> that's why chris licht was invented. >> chris does hold a grudge. did you read that "gq" profile in there? >> some of the language. >> and he said that -- i can't even said it on air, because i've said it on air. but on friday, t.j. went to the

camera, and he's saying that word again. defends me. >> thanks, t.j.. >> senator george lemieux is with us, though. he's a guy that will be with us. he loves his family and he's with us. and we thank you for being with us, george. what's going on out there? we've had eight republican party nominees who were sort of sanctioned by the national republican party get whipped. what's going on? >> well, i think what's happening, joe, is that people are mad at washington. and they're not going to vote for people who have been in washington for a long time, whether they're republicans or democrats, because they're frustrated about the direction of this country. and that's what you're seeing, that's what happened yesterday. i think you're going to see more of that come november. >> now, what's happening with your friend and former boss, charlie crist? he was ahead, but recent polls show he's now trailing marco rubio by double digits. >> well, marco rubio is going to

win that race. republicans in florida are going to come out in droves, as are independents. if you look back at the primary election, we had almost 50% more turnout on the republican side than the democrat. that's a bad sign for anybody who's not in the republican party this time. so i think you're going to see marco win. >> now, barack obama before was saying that the republicans were the party of no, but you are supporting the president's small business tax bill. why? >> well, this is -- there's not been much i could agree on with the democrats in congress, because most of it's been job killing, but this bill that mary landrieu and i worked on together is actually going to help small businesses in florida. you know, joe, that we've got nearly 2 million in florida. they're suffering, and this bill will cut taxes by $12 billion for small businesses, and increase lending to your local community bank, so that they can give dollars to small businesses and put people back to work. doesn't raise the deficit, doesn't raise the debt, doesn't raise taxes. made a lot of sense to me.

>> mark halperin and i were just debating on whether you run in 2012. you going to run in 2012 for united states senate? >> what did halperin say? >> halperin said he thought you would. >> we'll see. you know, i've got four little kids and my wife is the boss, so -- >> oh, so you love your family too? >> i do. and i didn't know there were waffles as an alternative, because i might have done that instead of coming on this morning. >> you know, seriously, paging kurt loader, i guess he hands out the waffles. that may be the line of the morning on "morning joe." i didn't know that waffles were an alternative, i might have taken them! >> it's hard to pass up waffles. >> bob will take what's behind door two, not scoreboro and "morning joe." well, george lemieux, thank you so much for agreeing to be with us. we have a bit of an insecurity complex this morning and you've sort of helped us out. >> i would say any time, but again, there's the waffles issue. >> and four kids. now, he's got four kids, right! >> four kids including a baby, a

baby girl. >> and he still makes it. >> still here. >> george, thanks so much. >> thanks so much. >> appreciate it. >> that's something. he's good people. what's next, willie? a great story coming up next. inside the world of facebook founder mark zuckerberg, he doesn't give interviews, but he did give one to our next guest. earn a free night! two separate stays at comfort inn or any of these choice hotels can earn you a free night -- only when you book at choicehotels.com.

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and set up a $20 billion independently-run claims fund. i was born in new orleans. my family still lives here. i'm gonna be here until we make this right. i think i've come up with something. >> that looks good. that looks really good. >> people want to go on the internet and check out their friends, so why not build a website that offers that.

i'm talking about taking the entire experience of college and putting it online. >> they've got 2,200 hits within two hours? >> 22,000. >> that was a preview of the upcoming movie "the social network," a look into the making of facebook. and with us now, jose antonio vargas, whose rare, exclusive interview with 26-year-old founder and ceo of facebook, mark zuckerberg, is in this week's "new yorker". jose, good to see you. >> hi. >> first of all, how did you talk to this man who's made a point of not talking to the press over the years? >> i just kind of sold this idea. i've known him a while. i've been covering this space for about three, four years now. so at some point, he had to talk, especially with this movie coming out. and the movie in many ways is, you know, i've read the script, it's all over the internet, and it's definitely a sexed up hollywood version of reality, as much as hollywood can make it exist, i suppose. >> how is that? how is it different from

reality? >> well, you know, one of the -- basically, the movie is based on this idea that this is an insecure kid who wanted to join one of these final clubs, right, wanted to get women. and that's just not the truth. even the people -- even the twins that are in the movie, right, actually say that, no, he never really wanted to get into one of these clubs. >> he's been described by somebody as one of the poorest rich persons he's ever seen. that this guy does not hang out on yachts. he just lives a basic life. >> he rents. >> he rents? >> he rents and he found his place on craigslist. we're talking about the world's youngest self-made billionaire who's living like seven blocks from work. i actually took a walk with him from the office to his house, which is like living like an engineer in silicon valley. i actually think that makes him much more interesting, frankly. >> there is a little disconnect between this guy who was a self-made billionaire on the very idea that we need to share

everything about ourselves, and yet this interview that he gave to you just doesn't happen. i mean, he's very careful about -- you know, he'll let us know where he's eating and with whom for dinner, but about what makes him tick, not so much. >> i actually think that this is -- we're living now in a -- you know, he topped "vanity fair's" establishment list. if you look at the top ten people on that list -- >> more than joebs, more than murdo murdoch. >> six of them were all technologyists. twitter people. it's a lot easier to caricature him as this socially awkward kid when really what he's done, i mean, i think we're going to look back 50, 100 years from now, we have never had a website that has contained 500 million people in it, with their names, with their photos, with their identities. so i think, frankly, facebook is a lot bigger than mark zuckerberg, he just happens to be in charge of it. >> you talked about the twins in the movie.

those are his friends -- >> former classmates. >> who accuse him of stealing their idea for facebook and becoming the billionaire that he is. he did settle with them for a fraction, probably, if it was -- >> a reported $65 million. >> $65 million. what does he say about the accusation that he stole the idea? >> i mean, basically he says that he didn't. i mean, there were two completely different ideas. the twins, as they're called, focus more on kind of the dates aspect of social networking, and his was really more of a facebook, right, which is what harvard students usually get as freshman. but i think what's more interesting about this, we're talking about a generation of kids who was -- this was bound to happen. i think facebook was something that was bound to happen. it's not as if this was -- no offense, but it's not as if it's this great invention. when you look at the history of the social web, this was inevitable. and it just so happened that he cracked the code. >> you look at the history of

society, of our culture. >> exactly. >> you can go back to the '60s and find those defining moments, whether it was jfk being assassinated or the beatles coming to america in '64, for this generation, a generation, i know, because i've got kids strung out all over, you know, 22 years across this generation, it's about taking pictures at a party, posting them. it's about documenting every second of people's lives. what stuns me is how personal things get and how much people are willing to reveal. and you talk about this yourself. >> this is a generational shift. i mean, i think what's fascinating here is, you know, for a lot of -- you go to any starbucks right now, right here, you probably know some people sitting down or on their facebook. it's like their television. and i think there's in many ways a missed opportunity. we have this movie that is based on kind of an authorized version

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hey, welcome back to "morning joe." time to talk about what we learned today. pat buchanan, what did you learn today, other than what facebook is? >>