my website wegoted.com. you can see all of the logistics there. i'm going to be a speaker there. i'm looking forward to it. in fact i can't wait until november 2nd because it's all about -- october 2nd, because it's all about november 2nd. "hardball" is up next. we'll see you back here tomorrow night. back to college with barack obama. let's play "hardball." good evening, i'm chris matthews in dublin, traveling this week with former president bill clinton. leading off tonight, mr. october, can president obama recapture some of that old 2008 magic? it certainly looked that way last night when 26,000 supporters turned out for his rally in madison, wisconsin. more, by some estimates, than he drew during his campaign.

he's back on the trail today again in iowa and in virginia and if, if he can close the enthusiasm gap, the democrats may be looking at a sweeter november. plus, sharron angle's habit of denying what she said on tape. we'll listen to the denials and then go to the videotape. love this job. also, i just went spent the entire day here on the irish isle with bill clinton and got a chance to talk to him about america's positive role in the world these days and what a former president can get done. our new nbc news/"the wall street journal" poll ranks him bill clinton, as the most popular political figure in america. clinton faced the democrats' collapse this year. and also why are republicans covering up for bp? duh. and who is denying subpoena power to the president's commission investigating the gulf oil disaster? same response. what's wrong with putting the oil folks under oath? and let me finish tonight with the important lessons the

current president can perhaps learn from a former one. all that is ahead. but first, let's check on the latest polls, the "hardball" scoreboard. let's start with the senate race in colorado, where a new poll by the democratic senatorial campaign committee has senator michael bennett up by two points over republican ken buck. that's a return there. next to ohio, where republican rob portman has an 11-point lead over democrat, lee fisher. now to a couple of governor's races, starting with ohio, where i think in are tightening and democratic incumbent ted strickland now back in a dead heat with republican john kasay. finally to maryland, where incumbent governor marty o'malley is opening up a big lead over republican bob earlyic who he beat four years ago. we will continue to check the "hardball" score board and all the big races every night leading up to election day j now to president obama in full campaign mode. u.s. congressman jim clyburn of south carolina is the democratic whip. congressman clyburn, thank you for watching. here is president obama last night in madison, wisconsin.

>> i know times are tough right now. i know times are tough. i know a lot of folks are anxious about the future and i know that during the campaign, especially after we had already started winning, the feeling was, well this is just exciting, you got those nice hope posters and then there was the inauguration and beyonce singing and bono and i know sometimes it feels a long way from the hope and excitement that we felt on election day or the day of the inauguration. but i've got to say, we always knew this was gonna take time. we always knew this was gonna be hard. >> congressman clyburn that is barack obama, the president of the united states, back in campaign mode. can he lift the spirits of the party? >> oh, absolutely.

look, i've been out there every weekend for the last three, four weeks and i can tell you, i was in pennsylvania, new jersey, delaware, this past sunday, monday, tuesday, and people are upbeat. they're now seeing us all on the same page. so the president being out there the vice president raising his voice, all that is good stuff for democrats. >> you know, what i can't understand, congressman, i have a lot of respect for you as a politician as well as a civil rights leader and i don't understand how this president goes in when we are facing a great depression, he turns things around, he gets a 70% back to where we were with gdp, he delivers on health care, the first democrat to do this since they started promising it with harry truman, he's going over to wall street and putting them under some kind of oversight for once. and people who are progressives or liberals aren't clapping. >> that has been a concern of mine as well and i have been

making very clear to all the people i talk to out there. we've got to understand, i equated it those days when we were passing civil rights legislation in 1964. that bill was in jeopardy because voter was in it. president lyndon johnson took voting out we passed it in '64 came back a year later around got voting in '65. three years later, fair housing in '68, four years, after that, in 19672 applied the '64 law to the public sector. so i tell people four distinctly different bills done over eight years. that's what's going on here. we are doing what needs to be done. we just can't do it all in the first two years or 18 months of the administration. so i think that we're on the road to a great recovery -- >> let's take -- >> -- and i would hope everybody would say engaged. >> let's take a look at the president last night again in his big rally of 26,000 people

at maddison. here's the president. let's listen. >> we are being tested here. the question is are we going to have the courage to keep moving forward, even in the face of difficulty? even in the face of uncertainty? this election is not about what we've done. it's about the work we have left to do. it is about you want this country to look like over the next two years. it is about your future. so madison, get out there and shape t get out there and fight for it. >> congressman -- congressman clyburn, it's a fact of life that positive reasons don't always get people to vote. you need some negative reasons. do you really believe, as you said the other day, that if the republicans get control, that congress and the speech power, they are going to use it to go after the president's birth records, going to try to prove he's a foreigner, and other nonsense like that?

>> i absolutely believe that take them at word. i've watched their actions. it is not their words it is their deeds, let's look at the members of that committee that's been talking about the government oversight committee. you've got dan burton sitting there. he's a co-sponsor of the birther bill. the ranking member, he says i didn't mean the birther stuff, i meant to lock at fraud cases. well, that's what they're saying. they're trying to delegitimize this president. they're calling him a fraud. so he'll be going after these subpoenas with that in mind. he may not call it a birther but exactly what they're going to be doing. and the fact of the matter is, these people feel that they put the republicans where they are and coming, asking for their

pound of flesh and we will be sitting there responding to subpoena, it is they were to get the power to do so i don't expect that they will. i feel good about where we are, i have been thought and i really feel we are going to maintain the majority in both the house and the senate and the president won't have to worry about that at all. >> thank you very much, u.s. congressman james clyburn, a ranking member -- number three man in the u.s. house of representatives from south carolina. let's turn now to daily beast contributor mark mckinnon, he's a former campaign manager for president george w. bush and for presidential candidate john mccain. you know, mark, it's great to have you on the i have to tell you, let's take a look at some of the whackier stuff that's been said by the tea party candidates who've gotten nominations for the senate and other major offices. let's take a listen to those. >> you know what evolution -- evolution is a myth and even darwin himself -- >> evolution is a myth? >> yeah, you know what? >> have you ever looked at a monkey?

>> why aren't monkeys still evolve nothing humans? >> it takes a long time. >> this congress keeps going the way it is people are really looking toward those second amendment remedies, saying, my goodness what can we do to turn this country around? and i will tell you can the first thing we need to do is take harry reid out. >> i like the civil rights act in the sense that it ended discrimination in all public domains. and i'm in favor of that. >> but? >> you had to ask me the but? i don't like the idea of telling private business owners. i abhor racism. i think it is a bad business decision to ever exclude anybody from your restaurant, but at the same time, i do believe in private ownership. >> you know, mark mckinnon, it sounds like we're listening to the cro-magnon party. they believe it should be used against men and women if you don't like the way they voted, and we should reconsider the

best that congress has done in the last 100 years on civil rights. so, what do you make of your political party and candidates tea partiers have shoved forward? >> well, i think problematic in the sense we are sending a very narrow message to folks in middle america who see a much different kind of future, not only for the republican party but for america in general. and i'm concerned about what is going to happen when we govern. i believe we are going to take the house and going to be interesting to see where we go on policy, because those are some fairly extreme examples but it is clear that folks from the tea party, for example, are opposed to free trade, which is a -- you know, i've always believed as a strong republican tenet, is one that attracted me to the republican party. so these are big issues, there will be a struggle for the heart and soul of the republican party going forward after the heart of the election. >> but if anybody in the country votes for anybody in the republican victory this fall, no

matter who they are, no matter how sane they are, they'll be voting to put these people, should they get elected, in serious committee positions. they'll get authority and power because they're with the republican majority. people like christine o'donnell, should she win, or sharron angle, who wants to give guns to people so they can kill congress people. i mean, incredible statements like that. a congressman, a senate candidate who wants to repeal the civil rights act. these positions, these people will be, as you say in office. they will have the power to use their legislative office to do these kinds of things. would you vote for any of these people, mark? >> no i wouldn't and i won't. and think if their voices dominate the caucus then it's a real long-term problem for the republican party. i think it's a short-term strategy for short-term gain with long-term implications for the direction of the party and i think it is drowning out voices of millions of other progressive centrist republicans, like me and millions of others and i think that they have got to --

they have got purist tests and make the tents narrower and they call people like me rhinos. i don't see people in the democratic party calling people dinoes. they welcome people like heath schuller. i think there are millions of americans thought looking for a voice in middle america that represents centrists and i think that is an unrepresented silent majority in america today. . >> you know, mark, when you're with a lot of those mainstream republicans, i won't give away their name it is usually in a back room, green room setting or a way to speak somewhere, they hear them giggle at these people, think they are not just dangerous but funny, absurd characters and they get out on the stage and they endorse them. isn't there a point at which any political party gets in trouble when it's afraid to say what it really thinks of its more zany members? >> i absolutely agree with that we have got to be candid, got to be honest and say the obvious. that is why i was glad to is he karl rove stand up and say what was -- what was on everybody's mind about our nominee in

delaware. i mean, he spoke the truth and he got hammered by a lot of folks for saying the obvious truth, but i think we need more candor, more honesty and need to be straightforward about these issues and not just embrace people because this they get the republican nomination. >> back in 1965 and '66, i remember the republican party had different groups like the republican alliance that brought together mainstream americans like hugh scott and governors across the country like romney senior and sort of took back the republican party from the goldwater wing. will we see something like that? will you lead something like that in your party today, the republican party, including its rhino wing? >> yeah, listen. there's lots of things going on out there. there's the main street group that tom davis started. and there's lots more of those things happening. i have been traveling around the country, like i said, millions of americans out here who want a voice to represent people in the middle, nobody is being awarded for centrist behavior, just the

hyper partisans running the show. i'm looking at an organization called no labels, no labels.org, facebook and launch in december that will have a lot to say about this and i think that kind of voice representing centrists out there. but it's not just no labels but lots of other groups, i think big untold story now that the media will see after these elections, the tea party is a very -- a small minority but a vocal one, but there are millions and millions of americans, more than a majority easily that consider themselves centrists, out there in the middle of america, don't feel like they are represented in congress or by the media and i think we will see a real independent movement for centrist republicans, centrist democrats across the board. >> we will be watching for you. mark mckinnon, thanks for joining us. coming up nevada republican candidate sharron angle is caught fighting with her own recorded voice. is this crazy? she is caught on tape but deny

what is on tape on a number of issues which she has taken wild stands. now, john ralston, the most influential political reporter in nevada is calling her out for what he says are her seemingly pathological habit, he calls it, of saying she never said swhg when it's already on videotape. what are you going to believe, me or your lying tape? groucho marx again? all joining us for the truth. you are watching "hardball" from dublin where i'm traveling with former president bill clinton. back in a moment. [ woman ] when i went on medicare, i did the numbers. that was the moment of truth. medicare by itself doesn't cover everything. i don't want to spend my life worrying about what would happen if one of us got sick. [ male announcer ] now more than ever, you may be wondering: do i have the right medicare coverage? talk to the health plan experts at securehorizons to get the answers you need.

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welcome back to "hardball." harry reid keeps calling sharron angle extreme in their fight for his seat. here is his latest ad. >> from world war ii to iraq and afghanistan, the va has made guaranteed care for those who serve but now in another extreme proposal, sharron angle says privatize it, end the va bosnia we know it. when asked whether veterans benefits like prescriptions and doctor benefit once covered if she had her way? >> no, not if you're working toward a privatized system. >> end our promise to veterans? sharron angle, dangerous ideas that put veteran at risk. >> angle was asked about that charge this past saturday at an event in reno, nevada.

here is her response to reid's charge followed by what she said about her father in handling the va back in may. >> i said that they could do a better job. that's all that i said. is the va could do a better job for our veterans and i believe that. i believe that our veterans fit in that priority box. we should be supporting our military and their dependents and our veterans. >> i than he pays over $800 a month in prescription drugs that we can't get through his va nor through medicare. they just won't cover those things. and i know lots of senior it's. >> do -- cover those things. >> no, not if you're working toward a privatized system. >> well there, we have the problem. the "las vegas sun's" john

ralston wrote about sharron angle. privatizing it. and said i'm beginning to wonder about this seemingly pathological habit angle has of saying she never had said something when it is right there on the tape and so easily retrieved. john ralston joins us now as i said from las vegas. host of "face-to-face." here is a canned caught confront with the fact of a videotape and what happens? >> well, it is amazing, chris. she seems to be suffering from selective amnesia. or she's like that guy pearce character in the movie equipment memento" with no short-term memory. we have two candidates in this race who are saying all sorts of strange things and harry reid said inexplicable and goofy things. at least he will try to explain it paper it over. sharron angle denies she said things that are clearly contradicted by videotape, by audiotape. it's as if she thinks that we're

living in a world 300 years ago where you can't find this stuff. >> well, we have everything this time. we have google and everything to check on. s angle with nbc news jonathan karl three weeks ago followed by her comments on true news christian radio back on radio. listen to the contradiction together. let's listen. >> the comment that you made about entitlement programs violating the first commandment, can you elaborate what you meant about that? >> i don't think that's what i said. >> you said that they turn government into our god. >> i said -- no, i didn't say that. and these programs that you mentioned that obama has going with reid and pelosi pushing them forward are all entitlement programs built to make government our god. and that's really what's happening in this country is a violation of the first commandment.

>> well, there she is. there she goes again, as ronald reagan once said, there she goes again clearly denying that is on tape. she said that having a government and putting too much hope in a government is violating a first commandment about not having strange gods before you. i mean, it's quite a biblical thing to go to the mountaintop and fiend a reason to not like your opponent's political philosophy and then deny it. >> chris, this is just astonishing. because what jonathan karl asked her, he directly quoted what she said. she does this a lot, chuckles, laughs, as if she was recalling supervisor of elections some campaign meetings, the consultants said don't ever say this again, sharon. she just pretends she never said it. it's a very bizarre reaction. of course, all of this stuff, as i said in that post you referred to is so easily retrieved and easy to confront her with it and there's so many instances of this and the one i remember the

best, essentially after the primary when she appeared under the withering interviews of fox and friends after she had spent the entire primary saying that so social security should be phased out, they said to her, you never said that, right? and she same back immediately and said, oh, no, i want to save social security when she essentially had just said that she wanted to get rid of it a few weeks beforehand. >> wow. well, here she is. angle again with carl, the reporter, followed by her back in january with radio host lawrence larson, a fellow conservative. let's listen to the difference here which is quite 180. >> when you said things don't turn out the right way in this election, people may seek second amendment remedies. what did you mean that? what are second remedies? >> no, i don't think that that is exactly the way that i said. >> you tell me. forget -- you tell me. >> okay. we were discussing once again in a context of the second amendment, we were having a

discussion about the founding fathers and why they had put the second amendment into the bill of rights. you know, our founding fathers, they put that second amendment in there for a good reason and that was for the people, to protect themselves against a tyrannical government. in fact, you know, thomas jefferson said it was good for a country to have a revolution every 20 year, i hope that is not where we are going but if this congress keeps going the way it is, people are really looking toward those second amendment remedies saying, my goodness what can we do to turn this country around. and i'll tell you, the first thing they need do is take harry reid out. >> you know, jon, what do her supporter says when they hear these denials of something that's right there in front of them? >> i don't think they even want to think about that, chris, but let's not get away from the fact here that these things that we are talking about, each of those sound bites that you played, in and of themselves, forget that she is denying that she said them, each of those statements

are so controversial. who talks about second amendment remedies and thomas jefferson to talk about because they passed a health care reform, people are thinking about taking up arms? it's just crazy. and so even her supporters, such as danny tarkanian who ran against her and now acting as a surrogate, they're distancing themselves from those kind of comments, as anybody would, and as mark mckinnon said, moderate republicans are running, like scalded dogs from that kind of statement. so they want to get off of that completely. they only want to talk about harry reid, the economy, harry reid, the economy. because they know if the election becomes about some of these statements that sharron angle says and then suddenly forgets, she is going to lose. >> you know, i have to tell you, after all the violence we grew up in this country with, the presidents we have lost over the last century or so and you know, starting with lincoln all the

way through to kennedy and almost reagan and all the other major political figures who have been assassinated, to talk about basically assassination what she is talking about here. she is in her words shall as we showed you in the tape, if this congress keeps going 2008 is, people are really looking forward those second amendment remedies, using firepower against elected officials, people who were elected, we should be ready to go gun them down. it's an incredible statement. i don't see how anybody can vote for somebody unless they have -- well, denied that they ever said it. maybe take it become and i go back to my groucho marx comment and i say this to voters, who are you going to believe, her or your lying ears? any way, thank you, jon ralston, for joining us with this amazing news about a very strange candidacy. up next, senator david vitter known primarily for hiring prostitutes in washington and also back home in louisiana, finally gets some attention he deserves. that is ahead in the side show. you are watching "hardball" on msnbc. ♪

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back to "hardball." time for the side show. first, louisiana senator david vitter is finally facing the political music for his hiring of prostitutes both in washington, d.c. and back home in louisiana. his opponent democratic congressman charlie melanson has raised the issue in the following ads. >> today we explore the case of the senator and the madam in lawmaker, lawbreaker. david vitter won an election to the united states senate as a proud family values politician, but under the surface, vitter was battling his own demons. >> things turned public for vitter when his number appeared on the d.c. madam's phone list. >> but it didn't end there. the scene shifts to new orleans, where a former french quarter prostitute gave an interview exposing details about her

sexual relationship with vitter. >> she went to the shower. spoke very little to me at first. he did his thing. he wasn't there, 15, 20 minutes at that. i was $300. >> well that little sugar plum begins airing today in louisiana. next, stay put. jerry brown was asked of last night's debate if he would run against whitman. something he did in 1976 and 1980. here is brown's response. >> hell, i was younger, you know i would be running again. but i would say at 74, whatever it is going to be in a couple of years, i'm ready. one more thing, i now have a wife and, you know, i come home at night, i don't try to close down the bars of sacramento like i used to do when i was governor of california. >> well, meg whitman, meanwhile, has been accused by a longtime housekeeper of knowingly hiring her illegally for the last nine

years. >> i told her that she knew that and i don't have papers to work here and i need her help. i want her to help me get immigration. ms. whitman just laughed and turned her head to one side. >> meg whitman responded in a statement today that said the employee had lied about her legal status in the form she filled out. she said it wasn't until june of 2009 that she learned the employer herself that she was working in the country illegally. i think we will hear more about this in days ahead.

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i'm page hopkins. after a contentious debate on government spending in the nation's obligation on 9/11 responders the house has approved the $7.5 billion plan providing free health care and compensation to workers sickened at ground zero. the house's also just approved a bill aimed at combatting chinese manipulation. defense secretary robert gates says americans have become too detached from their military. leading to rising cost costs. meanwhile a new study estimates health care cost for veteranings of the iraq and afghanistan wars could top $900 billion due to skyrocketing costs. and the times square bomber

says he was planning a second bomb attack to be carried out two weeks after the failed bombing. tropical storm nicole breaking up as it crosses the florida straits. high winds, heavy rains could produce coastal flooding in north carolina. former president jimmy carter will spend another night in the hospital after being admitted with an upset stomach. back to "hardball." welcome back to "hardball." i spent the day with bill clinton, the former president here on the irish isle and spoke with him about how he's been able to promote america's positive influence around the world. he's now the most popular political figure in our country according to the latest nbc news/"wall street journal" poll. and democrats can't get enough of them on the stump, account former president help current president and his party this november? robert reich served as bill

clinton's labor secretary. his new book is called "aftershock." mr. reich, mr. secretary, bill clinton's making a storm of irish unity in the north, i should say. what do you make of his political popularity here at home with these great numbers? >> well, every politician, every democratic politician does want bill clinton to help stump for him or her. bill clinton is the most popular democrat, running or not running, i actually think that's more important, not running. that helps a lot. but also, i think that people remember the great economy under bill clinton. people remember 22 million net new jobs. they remember a lot of prosperity. they also remember that the george w. bush expansion of 2001, 2007 was a sort of a phantom recovery, that was built on debt and median wages dropped those years. bill clinton represents really prosperity and i think that a lot of democrats want to be associated with that. >> do you think his ability to

position himself as a third way, as a centrist democrat was important. i'm looking at our independent. you have probably seen it, in our nbc news/"washington post" poll. out yesterday, he is leading 4-1, approval over disapproval. only one in six independent voters have a problem with bill clinton at this point. >> bill clinton, remember, he famously triangulated in 2006. dick morris said it wasn't better before, you haven't seen anything yet. the economy is humming well. dick morris said don't talk about specific issue, don't mandate anything specific in the second term, just tell everybody things are getting better and bill clinton did that. he kept some distance from the democrats and obviously some distance from republicans. he said the era of big government is over, remember that? and so before monica lewinsky

and most people are prepared to forgive and forget to that score, before monica lewinsky, bill clinton was doing very well. the economy, as i said, did wonderfully well. and so independents like bill clinton. >> well, he was doing pretty well in the polls afterwards, too. i think that a couple of things that you failed to mention, one is, balancing the budget. it goes over very well with the centrists who tend to be fiscally conservative and free trade. he was a free trader. let's look at part of the exchange i had with president clinton. i asked him about the northern ireland peace process and what it said about america's role in the world. let's listen. what's this say about america's influence, positive influence? you've read the global initiatives in areas like northern ireland. you have shown the power, you are like a one-man peace corps. what does that say to people in the world toward our country? >> i still think most people think we wish them well and most people know that even when they

disagree with particular things that a president does, that we have no imperialist design, take their country, their future away from them. i think that's the most important thing. the united states is too big and we are too involved with too many people for any president to be able to take actions that will be universally agreed to all day, every day and everywhere in the world. most important thing is that people think we're pulling for them and that we want to empower them. for example, in the heat of the iraq war, which was extremely unpopular in all majority muslim countries, the united states retained high levels of popularity in all the countries of southern africa, including kenya and tanzania, which have huge muslim populations, because of president bush's pepfar program, tuberculosis, malaria program. why? because they thought we still

cared whether their kids lived or died them didn't like iraq's foreign policy anymore than other muslims did but they had a countervailing piece of evidence that was overwhelming that we still -- they thought we were making a mistake but it was a mistake of the head, not the heart. and that's what you want. you want people to think america's pulling for them. >> bob reich, let me ask you, mr. secretary, do you believe that bill clinton were still present with balanced budgets, with that centrist approach on trade issues and other issues, do you think he would have a tea party opposing him? would there be a tea party? >> well, i think, chris, the problem is that begs the question, there's no way we are going to have balanced budgets now or anytime soon because of the severity of the great recession and interestingly, foreign trade, in fact, the whole principle of free trade has become very unpopular in america, much less popular than it was during bill clinton's presidency because so many people are afraid of their jobs

and they're worried about their wages and their mortgages and their savings. and so they're very prepared to believe what a lot of people on the left and right say and that is that free trade is bad for us. >> are you still a free trader? >> i am basically a free trader, yes, absolutely, chris, i think we have got to have more trade agreements that have labor and environmental protections in them, but i think free trade is basically good. i don't think that our problem, our jobs problem is fundamentally a problem of trade. i think it has much more to do with the fact that we have not sufficiently educated our population. we have not got out of this great recession with adequate stimulus and adequate fiscal and monetary policies over all. i think the republicans have basically stymied president obama, who, generally speaking, is i think trying to do exactly the right thing. >> thank you very much, robert reich. up next, why was the president's commission on investigating the bp oil

disaster blocked from getting subpoena power? can't they put these people under oath? can't they call them into court and ask them questions? and who is behind this blockage? who is looking out for bp? you will get answers ahead. you are watching "hardball" from dublin, ireland, where i'm traveling with former president bill clinton. back after this. ♪ i love my grandma. i love you grandma. grandma just makes me happy. ♪ to know, know, know you grandma is the bestest. the total package. grandpa's cooooooooool. way cool. ♪ grandpa spoils me rotten. ♪ to know, know, know you ♪ is to love... some people call us frick and frack. we do finger painting. this is how grandpa and i roll. ♪ and i do [ pins fall ] grandma's my best friend. my best friend ever. my best friend ever. ♪ [ laughing ]

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bp would say it was the coast guard and the coast guard would say it was bp. it came became a joke in our eoc, that the home of command, that it was the "wizard of oz" same guy behind the curtain because we never got a name. >> that was plaquemines parrish billy nungesser testifying before the commission. has questions may remain unanswered because several senate republicans have denied the president's commission subpoena power. here's how it went down.

>> is there is an objection? >> on behalf of other members of the republican conference, i object. >> objection is heard. >> this is legislation that th. >> is there objection? >> on behalf of other members of the republican conference, i object. >> so what's behind all this besides jim demint? as you just saw, the senator from new hampshire pushed for the president's commission to get subpoena power. thanks for joining us. i got the tip on this this weekend. how in the world can anybody deny the american people's right to find out what happened, what caused that oil spill in the gulf? >> you know, i don't understand it. this was an unprecedented disaster. 11 people lost their lives. uncounted environmental and economic damages to the people of the gulf region and we can't do anything about that but we can make sure it never happens again. and that's why this bipartisan

commission that the president has appointed is so important but what we heard from their cochairs, former senator bob graham and former nixon epa administrator, bill riley is that the witnesses are stonewalling and because they don't have subpoena power, they can't get the answers they need. unfortunately, we've requested the republicans in the senate to support this request for subpoena power three times now, and each time they've objected. i'm going to go back to the floor this evening and request that we go forward with the subpoena power a fourth time but, unfortunately, what we've heard is that they're going to object again. >> well, let me ask you about this. bob graham of florida is one of the most determined, hard working senators there's ever been. he's got all the faculties intellectually to handle

something like this. i've seen him action on this show and elsewhere. he is certainly the guy to do this. it's bipartisan as you point out. do the republicans ever in the cloak room or anywhere tell you, do they have any legitimate reason to hold up this investigation? >> well, not that i've heard. in fact the individual republican senators i've talked to about it have said they support it. this is legislation that passed the house overwhelmingly, 169 republicans voted for it in the house, and yet the minority keeps objecting in the senate. i don't understand it. this is something that we all ought to be supporting because it's important for this commission to be able to tell the american people what happened. >> you know, i think i know why they don't want to do it. because they'd like the american people to believe that what happened in the gulf of mexico was a technical failure, a

failure by a machine. what they don't want to admit, it was a management decision and i happen to know from my brother, who was in the business for 30 years, all mistakes are management mistakes. technology is tested. when mistakes occur, protocols are put in place. to avoid making that mistake again. if they're not followed, that's a management decision usually based on saving money. why can't we find out who made that management decision to save money at the huge social environmental cost we've seen? what do you think about that? that's what i'd like to find out. who made the management decision to go with sea water, not drilling mud? all kinds of decisions to say go ahead. even though the cement wasn't hard. each decision was made by a human being. can't we meet that human being under oath? >> well -- >> that's my question. >> and that is the question. and that's why we need subpoena power. you know, sadly the corporations that are involved here,

transocean and bp and halliburton, are not giving the full answers. and we need to give the american people the real answers. we need to give those families who lost their loved ones and when that station blew up the right answers and we need to let the businesses of the gulf region know why they've taken it on the chin for such high economic costs. that's what the subpoena power is all about. it's about making sure we know what really happened there so it never happens again. >> okay. well, it's great having someone on this show, a u.s. senator who is doing their job. thank you very much, jeanne shaheen of new hampshire. when we return let me fin wish a lesson president obama can learn from bill clinton. you're watching "hardball" only on msnbc. [ crunch ] look! [ helicopter noise ]

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let me finish tonight with some numbers. bill clinton now has a 53% approval rating from political independents in the united states, a 16% disapproval. 16% disapproval from independents. this for a democrat at a time the party is under hard assault. there are reasons for this. clinton is out of line of fire right now. that's for one. he's a reminder of a better economic time for an important other. but the real reason is that bill clinton, like tony blair in

england was a champion of what both called a third way. they were social democrats who knew the key to political as well as policy success lies in keeping faith with the middle. scare off the middle and you lose the country. you hold the middle by hugging to their main concerns. you focus on the economy. yes, it's the economy, stupid. you convince people you want government involvement when and only when the private sector can't act. do you it out of necessity, not out of desire. if you love big government you will not succeed with the american middle. barack obama won because most people believe the bush administration, led by idealogues had hijacked america. president obama will face the same rejection by the same political middle if he is seen in the hands of ideaologues of the left. big things still need to be done especially in job creation, energy, immigration. the more he does them and sells them close to the political middle the better his chances. those who