i'm chris matthews and this is london. let's play hardball. good evening. i'm chris matthews. i'm glad to be coming to you from london. always wanted to say that. i've been traveling with bill clinton trying to catch up with what he has been doing as an ex-president. it has been a phenomenal experience. i will be giving it to you in an hour documentary. tony blair formed half of that special relationship with bill clin toin. i asked the former british prime minister how clinton was able to

unite progress i haves and political centrists behind him and why the clinton brand has remained in our world. big trouble for meg whitman. we find out her husband knew that their housekeeper had immigration issues. whitman, paladino, and o'donnell, are some republican candidates not ready for prime time. president obama is at it again urging young voters not to quit on him after taking a whack at his liberal supporters earlier in the week. is this like the coach blasting the team at halftime? a sad story came to light when the u.s. government apologized for intentionally infecting people with venereal disease. a wesley professor researching the tuskegee experiments on african-american men. let me finish with what bill

clinton told me about the upcoming election. let's go to the "hardball" scoreboard. the new york governor race, democratic, andrew, cuomo, now leads carl paladino by 16 points. paladino threatened the life of a new york reporter, wednesday night, raising a pretty basic question about that guy's fitness for office. in new hampshire, republican kelly ayotte is solidifying her lead over hodes. republican joe miller leads with 43%. democratic scott mcadams is at 28%. just 18% respond dents volunteered for murkowski, running as a write-in state. when they offered up murkowski's name, her total jumped to 43%, miller to 36% and mcadams way behind at 14%. the problem for murkowski, there will be no one in the voting

booth yelling out the name, murkowski. we will continue to check the hardball scoreboard. my interview, this is going to be great. my interview with former minister, prime minister of great britain, tony blair, now the envoy in the middle east talks on behalf of the u.n., the eu, russia and us. we spent a lot of time talking about bill clinton. i began by asking him what makes bill clinton such a dominant politician even today. >> i think he is the master of the trade, really. i think he is the single most extraordinarily ept and competent politician i have ever met. that's not because he is simply good at communicating, the art of politics. it is because he is actually -- this is the thing i don't think people understand about him

sufficiently. it is all anchored in very strong and very well worked-out convictions. people sometimes see him as the great communication, he was just a good politician. he is not. he has a core of beliefs that are very, very strong. and completely define where modern progressive politics has got to be if it is going to be successful. >> how did and does he tie together this centrist-leaning liberalism, if you will? somehow he has positioned himself close to the center but on the progressive side in a way that grabs the loyalty of working people, as we say in our country, working middle class people? >> because, he understands people. he is fascinated by people, curious about people. i remember when he came to speak to me at the labor party confidence in black pool, which is a very sort of strange, in a way, old seaside town in the uk. we were supposed to meet him after he had spoken. we found him eventually down in

the local mcdonald's holding court with all the people in black pool having to be in there a bit surprise today see bill clinton suddenly amongst them. i was never -- people who went to find him, found him sitting there talking with these people as if he was their local counsel or and had been for many, many years. it was an extraordinary thing. so, you see, he has got this ability, therefore, to feel where people are. here is the thing that's very interesting about him. he is got modern progressive politics. he has got a framework that i sometimes describe in shorthand, in social terms for tough on law and order, pro gay rights position. he understands that our generation and younger, they don't have these old prejudices that frankly my dad used to have and probably yours too and all

the rest of us but they don't like people who beat up other people or misbehave and all the rest of it. they want rules but not prejudices. his ability to define that, just as an example, meant that he pitched the democrats exactly where they immediated to be. >> work hard and play by the rules. >> it is bourn out of a complete understanding of the generation you lead. >> is that because he comes from the middle class, middle, middle, middle, not upper middle, sort of regular person? >> also because i think he is genuinely interested in people. that's what a great politician. a politician is a politician but is always somebody who is genuinely interested in what makes people tick. you meet politicians that are pretty successful and so on. it is very much a game of calculation for them. you sometimes, and particularly

so in progressive politics, you come across politicians that love humanity in general but don't like them in particular. >> that's what we said about woodrow wilson, i think. he didn't like anybody in particular. >> right but the thing with bill clinton is, he actually likes them in particular too. >> let me ask you about his success among independents on the last political point. we have a new nbc poll that just came out the other night. among democrats, he is obviously very popular. independents are the hardest to reach in america, because they don't trust politicians. he is up 4-1. only 1 in 6 independents that don't approve of him. in today's environment many, in a tough xeconomy, is so rare. >> that's because his political position is dead center, a very modern political position. the old left foot would have said, the answer to our problems is big state, big government. he doesn't. he says, actually, we need to reinvent government and make it

strategic and empowering. the old left foot said we are with the unions. the people we have to deal with but we deal with them at arm's length. he understands for a modern progressive to win, have some part of business on your side. he has got a set of positions that make people in the cent centergram very comfortable. they understand he believes those positions. they are not tactical maneuvers. >> by today's standards, almost uncanny. he has been out of office, not president, for ten years now. he is now in his second successive president after him. yet, the other day up in northern ireland, we watched the people react to him. not to put them down but robinson and mcginnis were ignored, the local political leaders of that country, of that part of the world ignored while they all cheered bill clinton. >> what is that endurance about, do you think, after all these

years, ten years? >> i think people like him. i actually think they like him. they feel comfortable with his personality. they actually think he is human, he is approachable and they think he is smart. that's a pretty rare combination in politicking or any walk of life. >> are you still op tim is stick? >> i am still op mystic. i think i'm a born optimist. that's part of a documentary we are working on about former president bill clinton in his role as a former president. >> meg whitman looks to be in big trouble over an illegal housekeeper. carl paladino threatened the life of a reporter and admits he doesn't have any evidence about his opponents love affairs. you are watching "hardball" on msnbc. [ water ] hey, it's me water.

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welcome back to "hardball." california's candidate for governor, meg whitman, is in hot water. her wuss was alerted to the possibility their housekeeper was an illegal immigrant. she said if they sent her information on her housekeeper, the housekeeper must have intercepted it. >> neither my husband nor i received any letter from the social security administration. if there is a letter out there, i don't know how they got it. we never saw the letter. nicki did bring in our mail and sort the mail. if she had gotten a letter two weeks before alerting her to a problem and saying, we are going to alert your employer, she might have been on the lookout for that letter. it pains me to say that because, gosh, that's not the nicki i

knew. it would pain me to believe that that's what she had done but i have no other explanation. >> well, i don't know. the housekeeper's attorney, gloria allred unveiled a letter that showed a scribbled note she says was hand written by whitman's husband. there is the handwriting. >> meg whitman and her husband deny receiving the letter but please look at the bottom of the letter. on it, dr. harsh has written, quote, nicky, please check this, thanks, end quote. nicky recognizes this as dr. harsh's writing since he wrote her many notes. he wrote this on the letter and then gave it to nicky. >> well, the revelation, the husband, then, prompted dr. grif harsh to release a statement, that reads in part, quote, while

i honestly do not recall receiving this letter as it was sense to me seven years ago i can say it a possible i would have scratched a follow-up note on a letter like this. did meg whitman knowingly employ an illegal immigrant? it looks like the family knew something was a problem. chris cillizza is with the "washington post" and an msnbc political analyst. david corn, is a contributor to politicsdaily.com. david corn, i don't see any way this doesn't hurt whitman because she's running as this knowledgeable businesswoman whose competent, got her affairs together and here she is covering up for what looks to be a way to save money, hiring someone illegally. the game so many people play and trying to deny the obvious fact she was hiring this person illegally. he's not denying it. that statement was cleverly written. he's admitting he signed off on that letter. what do you make of this?

>> it's hard to believe if a couple had a housekeeper they liked and there was a problem, one spouse wouldn't tell the other at some point. they'd say, i'm taking care of it, don't worry about it, but there would be some knowledge passed. meg whitman has spent about $150 million so far and still hasn't really sold her story to the voters of california, so this, you know, can't help, and maybe will distract from the next $150 million she's going to be spending on campaign ads. >> you have to ask, why, if she's a good democrat, a good person, i should say, a compassionate person, why years ago when she realized a person working for her, she was affectionate toward, didn't peel off a few of the 150 billion bucks she has to spend to get her an immigration lawyer and help her out. why was she so callus to have her husband sign a note to say, take care of this nicky? >> i still think, chris -- well, let's say this. meg whitman is trying to turn it

into a she said versus she said. i think the note does not help, the husband coming out saying i may have written that is not helpful. one thing he didn't mention in the context of california politics. meg whitman moved very hard to the right on illegal immigration during the primary to win the primary. she was supposed to win by a lot. it narrowed because she was being attacked on immigration. she moved to the right which i do not think she wanted to do. this brings that up again. remember the hispanic vote, a very powerful bloc of voters in california. she does not want to be relitigating this out a month essentially before the election. so whether she's right or wrong, morally, she's clearly wrong politically right now. she wants to be talking about anything other than this. this has already basically a week-long story. i think it's probably going to go into next week. there's no reason to think it's going to stop now. >> this isn't going away. you're right. chris is right. >> what the person is really like, they want to know what's happening, the real story about the person, not the stuff they pay speechwriters to write for them.

an admin to write for them. they want the real story on a person. i have to move on to -- >> chris, can i just say -- >> yeah, go ahead. >> can i say very, very quickly, it's more dangerous for whitman than other candidate because of her wealth. wealthy candidates struggle to say, okay, i may be a billionaire but i understand the concerns of the average working person. because she is so wealthy it's a bigger hurdle she has to -- >> she could have taken care of this. you get a note from immigration, you have the ability to deal with it one way or another. they didn't seem to do that. >> here's part of a confrontation between carl paladino and fred dicker from the "new york post." it happened wednesday night where dicker is asking him about, show me the evidence you've got about andrew cuomo and his private life. show me what you're talking about. here it is. let's listen. >> do you have the evidence or do you not? >> i will at the appropriate time -- >> you have three daughters. how can you say that about him? >> i have a daughter, too, fred. >> you brought it out. >> fred, that's it. >> stay away from me.

>> what evidence do you have? >> listen, all right -- >> you don't -- >> my daughter -- come on. stay away from me, man, don't touch me. who are you? who are you? who the hell are you? i'm trying to ask him a question. go ahead, ask me a question. do you have evidence of the charge made? >> at the appropriate time you'll get it. >> do you like the body guards defending him? where do these guys come from? paladino said he's not accusing cuomo of having extramarital affairs. he said, i was talking to a reporter and said, why don't you ask cuomo about this stuff. he's denying he's charging her with it, but this continues, he's still pushing the story. what do you make of this? he's saying i'm going to bring it out at an appropriate time. what is this appropriate time? here's what paladino said on fox a few hours ago when asked whether he had proof of misbehavior by cuomo. let's listen.

>> we will at the appropriate time, okay, say whatever we have in our -- in our box at the appropriate time. yes. >> so you're not backing off that allegation? you do believe that andrew cuomo has had, or did have extramarital affairs when he was married? >> what i -- what i believe and what is factual out there, we will at the appropriate time put out, yes. >> i don't think roger ailes is behind paladino. just guessing, chris cillizza. i don't think he is a favorite of fox or anybody. what's he got in his box? he's talking about he has some box somewhere with dirt on his opponents. what's this box he has? is this a locked box? >> is this a pandora's box? i mean, look, chris, this is what, to be honest, this is what the republican establishment, the much-maligned establishment has beat them in a lot of places.

this is exactly what they were worried about in new york. this is why they tried to recruit a democrat to run in the gubernatorial race. this is why they were ostensibly behind rick lazio. they knew paladino was going to do this. >> he's becoming the joe peshy candidate. >> this is a strange crowd. >> that's your comment, dave, not mine. let me say this. this guy is making charges and saying, i have dirt in my box here, i'm going to release it at the appropriate time. what kind of talk is this, i'm going to take you out, i have dirt on you in my box? this guy is running for franklin roosevelt's old job. >> got to love new york politics, chris. rough and tumble. >> thanks, chris cillizza, david corn. forget the peshy references. right wing hysteria. a campaign by the cdc, center of disease control to get americans to eat healthy is somehow, you'll love it, socialism. the word again. there you have it. socialism, trying to make us a little healthy by our own food decisions.

your watching qult "hardball" on msnbc.

back to "hardball." now it the "sideshow." first up, the food police are coming. that was the rallying cry for republican congressman paul broun of georgia at a town hall last month. here's broun describing the big problems going on in washington today. >> they will get all power of the federal government to force you to eat more fruits and vegetables. that is what the federal cdc -- they're going to be calling people to find out how many fruits and vegetables you eat a day. this is socialism of the highest order. >> trouble in river city. socialism of the highest order. the fact is the center for

disease control does do nutritional surveys, via the telephone. this hardly constitutes socialism of the highest order. they're just asking what people are eating to try to get people to start maybe eating better food. another round of science versus the gop. senator russ feingold's republican challenger, billionaire businessman ron johnson, told the associated press he believes global warming is unproven. the quote is, or his quote is, the point is because we're not certain because it's not proven, the last thing we should do is penalize our economy. the science of global warming is unproven. it just is. there's tremendous evidence that human behavior, c02 emissions are driving up greenhouse gases and causing changes in the climate globally. they don't want to face the consequences. ron johnson is selling the happy days position because it sells to people who don't deep down care about what they're doing to the future of the planet. in the 1960s we called these folks pigs.

that's "hardball for now." thanks for being with us. up next, "your business."