chief legal an lift, dan abrams, the former congressman, j.d. hayworth "the washington post," jonathan capehart, strategic karen finney. should be a great morning. short of tell you stay home, the rare warning sfra ining state ds getting serious. countries in europe are seriously worried about a terror attack. if you're going to go there, you need to watch it. the trouble is, after nine years of various warnings, you know all of the color codes, is anyone going to pay attention? >> i'm very happy to be here in france, and i think that we're very safe, and i trust the french government to keep us safe. >> we're going to be a little bit cautious getting on the train. >> i'll keep my eyes open and hopefully things will work out. >> hopefully things will work out. nbc's jim maceda live in lon done with latest on the new terrorism concerns. i was reading local papers in london, jim, and it i was interested to see they were talking to a lot of americans who, frankly, were upset that

they thought the warning were too vague. what's go on over there? >> reporter: there are americans here who think the warnings are too vague, and there is some frustration. the problem is that, like every other alert, travel alerts, you've got walk a fine line. you don't want to scare people too much. there is no actionable intelligence suggesting an imintercept threat, but at the same time, there is a threat out there. if i could very, very quickly try to sum up the three dots that counterterrorist experts and analysts are trying to connect, first the one notice uk, based on pakistani intelligence sources. that's where the mumbai-style attack comes from. apparently it's been thwarted with drones, it's connects to the drone strikes in pakistan. the second one is in france. there, rumors of a female suicide bomber. this business a week old now entraiting into paris, blowing herself up in the metro or some iconic tourist site like the

eiffel tower. finally the third dot, that's in germany. that's coming, again, from german intelligence, suggesting there would be a coordinated attack, it could be under way. no sign of a foiling of that attack. the problem, also they mentioned, the only ones who mentioned that al qaeda could be involved all the way up to bin laden. the problem is that it's based on one primary source, one guy who's singing it like a canary, it said to the americans at afghanistan, and the germans and others in europe are very, very hesitant about believing what they're hearing. back to you, chris. >> thank you very much, jim. now, jamie smith, a former cia paramilitary officer. dan rather, anchor and managing editor of dan rather reports on hd net. jamie, a spokeswoman from the state department can't remember another europe-wide alert like this one. is it sach for americans to travel over there?

>> well, there is some danger, obviously, to the travel. but as long as the -- as long as somebody in the area's taking precaution and watching around, you know they're looking in their general area for people that seem out of place, and you're not doing anything just -- if you're in the subway, you're in the airplane, in the airport area, you need to try to minimize your exposure in those areas. >> are you saying don't take the subway? i think people are looking for specifics here, they're trying to figure out, really, how serious is the threat, first of all? second of all, should they be changing habits like not go on a subway, don't take the tube when you're in london? >> yeah, in this case, that's a good idea, to avoid public transportation, to avoid congregating in areas where lots of tourists are going to be, like buckingham palace, the big ben area. you can enjoy these places but you don't have to be clustered aamong other tourists where that's a tar get. bottom line of it is, if

al qaeda's trying to hit this, that's what they're going to do, looking to strike where they get the maximum amount of impact and damage and media coverage. if you can avoid being in places like that that's a bit safer for you. and -- >> let me ask dan about this. dan, state department issued this directive and it says, americans, i'm quoting, should take every precaution, adopt appropriate safety measures. i mean, obviously they have one problem if something would happen, they knew there was the threat of something and didn't put out an alert they get criticizes for that. on the or hand, what are they telling us? >> not a whole lot. they don't know a whole lot. but i will say, for -- to take this step, this was a very big step to take. they unquestionably have some intelligence they think highly about. lathe ed murrow used to say, steady, steady is the word. people have to make their own decisions. this i confusing for people that have to travel and it's too

vague to suit me personally, actually. i think what we've heard, if you plan a trip, make your own decision whether to cancel or go ahead. about if you go ahead avoid the obvious places and hope for the best. keep in mind a very important thing mentioned about part of what the al qaeda and the others want to do is cause panic. part of what they do is get media attention, get us talking about things. being afraid is not in the american character. >> it's classic bin laden. people are looking at this as the most involved he potentially has been in plotting since 9/11. >> that's true. there's a great deal of validity in that keeping in mine we don't have a clue where bin laden is, we know little about what he's doing. in the main here, the word is steady, make your own decisions. the state department is not going to help you much in making that decision. >> where are guys plotting this, beyond bin laden? pakistani officials think they're in that pakistani tribal region where the u.s. has been

focusing a lot of the drone-fired missile attacks. now another retaliation. the pakistani taliban is claiming responsibility for a deadly predawn talk on a convoy of tanker trucks. 20 trucks went up in flames, four people killed, seven injured. this is the fourth attack since last thursday. now back here at home, it is october, which means it's time for tuning into politics. most voters starting to focus. that means anything can happen. quick analysis, republicans holding the cards, but maybe, maybe not as many as they did on labor day. republican strategists tell "the new york times" they only have about half of the 39 seats they had need to win the house locks up. with that in mind, nancy pelosi is telling democrats, go on the attack, and they've got money to do it. the dnc is going to report september was the best fund-raising month for this campaign, more than $16 million

pouring in. now the trouble is that far more, about $80 million is being spend by outside groups and conservatives are putting money behind their candidates seven times more than democrats, and frankly, we don't know who more than half of those people are. let's bring in msnbc contributor karen finney, former communications director for the national committee, msnbc contributor, jonathan capehart and former arizona congressman and senate hopeful j.d. hayworth, dan rather is back as well. dnc will say, look how great things are going for us. the truth is, there's a lot of money going into this campaign, recession or not. >> right. >> the vast majority of it is going to republicans. frankly, they're tired of this administration already. >> the vast majority by republicans in the conservative side and we don't know who those people are, that's one of the big stories coming out of this cycle when we get to see those reports and find out who actually was giving money.

but democrats have been able to kind of regain some momentum. we knew the tea party candidates initially, that was a civil war within the republican party. we knew when we hit the again election voters, when trying to appeal to independents, democrats would have a shot to win those voters back, and you're seeing races tighten up. >> j.d., i have to tell you, i did chuckle when i read in the new york times that the republican leaders are saying we only have half of seats we need. is there a little bit of expectations game going on or are you worried? >> pride goeth before a fall. 1998 we were expected to within a lot of seats that didn't materialize. keep in mind, one, talking about official reported money in terms of the campaign finance framework, a lot of money from organized labor goes unreported, specifically the committee on political education. but even -- >> you think the democrats have a lot more money than they're

saying? >> they will, sure, that's a fact of life. it's not reflected in campaign reports because the committee on political education, and that alignment with organized labor, always works very effectively, but it's somewhat undocumented, to borrow a phrase. something else to keep in mind, when you take a look race by race, even anti-incumbency type of mood, the fact is that incumbents, many democrats, they're reporting almost twice as much cash on hand as their republican opponents. so while the atmosphere is certainly conducive to see conservative reform and conservative change, the fact is, this does not occur in a vacuum, and what speaker pelosi is telling her democrat colleagues, they probably figured out on their own, they're not going to try to run on their record, they're going to try to attack their conservative challengers. >> let me do a lightning round with you, jonathan. who has more money? >> well, roberted, the republicans have more money. what's the next question?

>> the democrats have more money than they're saying? >> you know, i turn it over to the one who would know. >> not so much? >> expectations gained again. it is interesting, though, we had nancy pelosi, she gathered together a bunch of columnists last week. >> i was there. i was at that meeting. >> tell me what happened. she said attack, attack, attack. >> here's what we've done, we have a record to run on, we've been focused on jobs, jobs, jobs, a direct quote. she said i don't care if you attack me, say what you need to say to win. this is a speaker who is more focused on maintaining majority and maintaining -- being speaker come november 3rd or january 1st than it is about don't say bad things about me. she wants to remain speaker and that only happens if democrats run with her, run against her, but just win. >> dan, you followed a few political campaigns in your time. is this the nastiest ever? is it going to be -- looks like

the most expensive ever. >> it's certainly the most expensive ever. and there's no question, up to and including now the republicans have had more money to spend. they've spent more money. there's a lot of talk of democrats, one reason they're going to the attack, democrats in the middle of the summer, on chris matthews' program, the republicans will take the house, probably won't take the senate. things change, races tight. up. er are someone saying how do you make heads or tails? overnight's a long time in politics, a week is forever. the election is down the road. a lot of things can happen. the democrats going into this election were in the position of the pig is dead, the barn is on fire and there's a tornado headed to the farmhouse. >> i have got -- they're tell me to wrap. i have to ask for a show of hands here. somebody's making calls to voters in new hampshire about donald trump. >> god. >> in 2012. is it him? is he running for something?

>> never underestimate the donald. >> yes? >> i think so. >> come on. >> you think he's running? i think it's a publicity stunt. >> more to come on donald trump. karen, john, dan, j.z., stick around. more with all of these folks late in the show. we want to switch to a horrifying story. did you hear about this over the weekend? u.s./mexico border, an american couple jet skiing and attacked by pirates only one survived. plus, the trial was filled with graphic testimony about the brut brutal rape and murders of a family in their own home. the jury's getting the case today. if you're a verizon customer the company may be putting money back in your pock et cetera. there's a switch. we'll tell you how to figure out if you're getting the cash. sure i'd like to diversify my workforce,

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absolutely horrifying ordeal on a lake that borders texas and mexico, believed to be linked to the mexican drug violence. tiffany hartley and her husband david and were riding jet skis when gunfire erupted. bullets came close to tiffany but david couldn't escape. listen to the 911 tape. >> are you sure that your husband got shot? >> yes. in his head. >> okay. was he thrown out of the jet ski that he's in the water or something in. >> he was thrown off the jet ski and i couldn't pick him up to get him on mine. >> tiffany says she had to leave her husband's body behind to make her escape. and according to authorities there's a surge in violence on that lake. they blame mexican pirates linked to the drug cartels. jurors will hear 46 pages of instructions before they start to deliberate in what is one of

the most horrible cases of murder that anyone's ever seen. almost unfathomably vicious rape and murder of the connecticut mom and her two daughters. the husband and father, william, survived the attack. he's been notice courtroom, along with clearly upset jurors. listening to what can only be described as stomach-churning, graphic testimony about the way his family was tortured and killed in 2007. steven hays could get the death penalty. jeff rossen is live outside the courthouse for us today. i know it's going to take a while for the jury to get the charge, right? >> reporter: yeah, it's 46 pages long, 17 different counts, and 6 of those charges against steven hays are capital felonies which means a felony was committed in the fact of committing another felony. charged with everything from murder to sexual assault to kidnapping to burglary. 17 counts, the judge is reading as we speak, the instructs to

the jury, we're told, it could take several hours because it's a complex case with many charges. there will be a break in the middle, then the jury will begin deliberations later on this afternoon. one those come back with a verdict if is it guilty, the jury will get two to three days off, one to two days off, come back and endure another six weeks of the sentencing phase in which the jury will decide whether steven hayes will be put to death, and there's a second trial for his accomplice, komisarjevsky, prosecutors said they broke into the petit home and tortures the family while killing jennifer hawk-petit and her two daughters. william petit is here. >> star jones, a former prosecutor, author, tv host, dan be a brabrams nbc chief analyst. what's going to go on, star,

inside the jury room? they have heard horrific testimony, seen horrifying pictures. >> i have no idea how they've been able to sit there. i could barely read the account of the testimony. >> i'm with you the ex-prosecutor in me says kill them now, do not pass go, do not collect $200, push the plunger, want your hands, go home and kiss your children. they should be gone. this specific defendant, mr mr. hayes is responsible for every aspect, either as a principal or accessory. >> which is not what his lawyer says. his lawyer says, dan, yes, he was there, yes, he did strangle the mom, but he did it under duress, because the other guy, he knew, was wielding a baseball bat and, frankly, he was sort of portrayed as this guy who was a petty thief who got caught up in this horrible event the problem with that, it's not a defense to the charge, meaning when talking about felony murder, all he has to have done actually intended

to do was one of the felonies, which could be the rape, robbery, arson. >> does it have to be premeditated? >> no it could have been any of the crimes, as long as there's the proper intent to commit tell felonies, if someone died, let's say he said i didn't intend to kill them, i just pours the gasoline, the fact that all of these people were killed there still is a legal matter will make him responsible. this is clearly an effort to do is to argue the penalty phase now. i think -- i think his lawyer knows he's going to be convicted, he's going to be convicted of a capital crime. the question is going to be, in that next phase of the four to six weeks, will he get the death penalty, and that's where it comes in to play where he says, look, i was in essence a victim to my partner in this, meaning at the least, accept the fact i wasn't as bad as he was. i don't flow if it's going to work. >> you have satan and satan's spawn, they both deserve to be in hell, i don't understand.

>> both defendants guilty in ex life sentence and the prosecutor said forget about that. as a lawyer if dan's right, and it sounds from all evidence that he is, they're going for really just trying to keep these guys off death row, how do you do it? how do you approach it? does it matter what happens now? >> at this point, they're going to try to mitigate the circumstances, but i don't know how you mitigate this, as a defense attorney, i cannot imagine what you say to the jury to explain away such violent behavior, anti-social behavior, such vicious behavior. they're going to have to, in some way, explain away mr. hayes being in some state, maybe what he was trying to say. >> what they're going to try to say his partner was the driver force behind this, that he never intended to go in there to kill anyone, that things got out of control -- >> but he intended to rob.

>> that's right. >> he intendeintended burglariz >> star well knows, this i going to be a judgment call on the part of the jury, meaning, yes, there are standards and mit zbating circumstances, et cetera, but in the end, the death penalty decision is one where the jurors have to say -- >> if it's about emotion -- >> it's over. >> as someone and has watched a few trials. >> these men raped a child and raped their mother, that's enough. >> and took pictures. >> and took pictures and sent them over the internet. there's nothing else you need to say. >> i'm not going to be put in the position of the person defending these guys. i have no interest in doing that. >> let me guess, you would not have taken the case. >> i wouldn't have taken the case. here what happens they're going to do, this is what the defense lawyers go did the defense lawyer will say it wasn't my client who raped the child. >> he was raping the mother. he didn't rape the kids, he

rapes the mother. >> his position is he was forced to do it. i don't think it's going to work but i think that's going to happen. more to talk about other fascinate things today. thanks. now the travel alert in europe over some sort of mumbai-style attack has people on edge, no doubt about that. richard lui has details every american thinking about traveling needs to know. >> chris, we've got the website that you should spend ten minutes on if you're traveling in europe, and the key differences between a travel alert and a travel warning that you need to know. time for your business entrepreneur of the week. ron owns the 137-year-old stokes farm in new jersey. he's benefiting from the new customer emphasis on buying locally-grown produce at farmer's markets. he now grows more than 74 items. for more, watch "your business" sunday mornings 7:30 on msnbc.

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here's a couple of things we know about the terror alert. first, it's very rare. a state department official doesn't remember anything quite like it. it is a blanket threat. usually things are for a specific country or city. so i guess you could argue in a sense, they're saying the world's a dangerous place. however, i think a lot of people already know that, so what are you supposed to do about it?

let's bring in msnbc's richard lui. i know you've been looking into details that travelers should know. >> that's right, chris. when we break this down it comes down to two lists to find on the state department's list. first off, you have the travel alerts. that's what we're hearing now. then you have travel warnings. 31 specific places. let's break it down for you right now. you look at what you are looking at, you should consider not going to a place if it is on a list that has a warning. now we're talking about alert. so which according to the state department means this is a short-term situation, meaning it's just months. this one, in fact, expires january 31st. an alert is also information that they say, quote, you should know. very important there. warnings, when we take a look at of the 31 places, can be for years. they want you to consider not going at all. so actually changing your plans. that's different right now. the reason being because, in these areas where there are warnings there's concern of civil war, frequent terrorist attacks or other situations.

chris, if you are already there or are going, this is what you should do, very simple things. spend ten minutes on this website to register where you're going. i registered when i went to africa, southeast. very straightforward in terms of the amount of time you need to be put into that. limit the amount of luggage tags on your luggage. sometimes we have flags, places that we've been. you don't want to have that on your luggage, says somebody from the state department, a spokesperson because that identifies where you're from. stay away from areas where incidents could arise. that's where the generality comes in. the registration i was saying, it's pretty easy. it's straightforward. chris, it is a very simple process. and that way, if the state department needs to reach you because of an incident in the country you're at or your family needs to reach you, that is there and that's all of the information in terms of e-mail address, where your travel itinerary is, it's all there. >> thanks so much. people can check that out at

msnbc.com, as well. why was verizon charging customers for services they didn't use in the company's about to give out $90 million in refunds. can you cash in on verizon's payback. can rahm emanuel be barred from running for chicago mayor because of address issues? [ cellphone rings ] kowalchick. [ man ] emergency, kowalchick. what is your emergency? the intern forgot the doughnuts for the status meeting. ♪ bingo! [ tires screech ] ♪ ♪ bang. [ male announcer ] that's right. we put a turbo in a sportcross. the all-new nissan juke. innovation for success. innovation for all.

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here's a look at stories we're following for you on msnbc, at least four people are dead, more than a dozen others injured, in georgia after a church van flipped over on a state highway. the rutgers campus community paid respects to tyler clementi sunday, a silent candlelight vigil. new york police confirm that new york imam have received death pla threats over the plan. your verizon bill may be smaller because the nation's largest phone company has been overcharging customers and is

going to pay out up to $90 million in refunds. if you get a refund, you'll be notified over the next couple of months about it. a new landmark survey, giving americans a detailed look at current sexual habits and safe sex among different age groups. research indicates, for example, teens are more conscious of safe sex than baby boomers. we'll talk about dangers of that later in the show. rahm emanuel is wafsting no time. he left the white house friday. already he's on the streets of chicago running for mayor and it didn't take long to get into campaign mode. >> to be the city we want to be, we can't have gang bangers taking lives of our schoolchildren. to be the city we want to being we can no longer accept business as usual. attacking our budget deficit, there must be no sacred cows. >> now, if you believe all of the publicity is good publicity, rahm is in good shape. he's already a tar get on saturday night live along with

his replacement, pete rouse. >> are you ready to kill a man? are you ready to choke a man over a vote? >> i don't think so. >> this is prison rules now, baby, okay? on the first day, you got to walk up to the biggest congressman you can find and say, nice to meet you, when he goes to shake your hand you stab him in the neck with a pencil! >> with me now, carol marin, political editor from wmaq. she's a political columnist for the chicago sun times. you've covers rahm emanuel for a few years, is he sitting at home thinking it's funny? >> you know, any publicity is good publicity and he is the guy everyone is talking about all the time, even though there's a november election in which he does not figure. >> yeah. his election isn't coming up for another year after that. we thought now that he made the decision, we'd be talking about, can he win. but there's a controversy over whether legally he can even run.

what's that all about? >> it's a question of residency, and he hasn't been a resident for at least the last 18 months help rented out his home, went to washington. illinois law seems to be clear but i hasten to add judges who decide this are made by the cook county democratic organization, and they might think slightly more sympathetically than we expect. >> we don't have to read between the lines to hear what that means. okay. so as i said, you've been around chicago politics. i guess, carol, pretty much your adult life or a big chunk of it. this is the first time city hall, i think, has been up for grabs really in two decades. and we know this is not a city with boring politics. how is this race shaping up how it's looking there? >> this is the first time in 61 years it's an open seat. so you have, i can estimate between 26 and 30 potential contenders running for mayor. it is a nonpartisan municipal election, it will go to a run-off in april.

rahm emanuel is a very successful and a very forceful politician in washington, but he is not necessarily being embraced by everyone here because of immigration, "the chicago tribune" this morning had on its front page the fact that he's jewish does not necessarily mean the jewish voters are thrilled with everything the obama administration has done vis-a-vis israel. >> great to see you, as always. thanks for taking the time. let's get back to this election, four week as way. democratic leaders saying, take the tea party seriously. >> we should take on the tea party. for some reason, everyone is scared of them. >> ours es a complex message. tea party message is easy and simple. we zone have it in our makeup, in our dna to mislead the public. we don't talk about death panels. >> back to the company, karen finney, john capehart, dan rather, j.d. hayworth. i'll throw you a softball, j.d.,

since you're not here. >> you're so generous today. >> are the democrats not taking the tea party seriously enough? >> well, no, they're taking the tea party seriously, but in an effort to motivate their base, they've decided to insult the tea party. really, this has been going on for a long time. recall speaker pelosi calling the tea party extremists, racists, challenging the grassroots credentials, calling them something like astroturf. while there was a certain period of time, and i think back about a month ago when former president clinton appears on national television and had some consolatory remarks for the tea party, no sooner did he utter those remarks and a couple of weeks later he's in a highly-charged atmosphere, going after the tea party, talk about mad hatter and all of the extremist rhetoric that has become part and parsing of modern democrat political speech j.d., because you're not here, jonathan capehart is sitting

here incredulous and doing that -- >> because, j.d., you know, when speaker pelosi, even president obama, when talking about the sort of inflamed rhetoric coming out of the tea party movement, they're talking about the extremes of the tea party movement. particularly president obama has always said that there are legitimate concerns being expresses by the folks who have shown up in washington time and time again complaining about deficits, spending and the budget and the direction of the country. that is something to be taken seriously. but they're also saying a lot of the heated racist rhetoric coming from the extreme is something that we should, you know, highlight and make sure people understand that that's what's being said and it could have bad consequences. >> is that the way to go? it can be interpreted as scare tactics. >> there's two parts to it. the recognition the local tea party movementer, there's something going on we need to pay attention to. that's not the sim as the astroturf funded by the likes of dick army which is inflaming and

using the extremist rhetoric. the tactics, it's about time if the gop embraces the tea party they need to embrace ideas of sharron angle and joe miller who say, end social security and medicare or rand paul who says the civil rights act waist government overreach if they embrace it democrats ought to make them defend it. >> part of the problem, over the last couple of weeks i've had probably three tea party leaders on, though they don't like to call themselves leaders because they say then it's not a grassroots movement, but is this sort of in some ways arc a morphous set of ideas. >> tea party is not a pear. it's a movement insofar as it's part of the republican party, that's what the democrats are trying to attack. but i think the democrats are very slow to get on. the tea party does, and it's a morphous state, represent the

anger, fear, hostility that comes from not just the recession but a lot of it. >> does it dan, represent, i thought tom friedman wrote an incredible column about the possibility of a third party that maybe the time is right, maybe the conditions are so that there are people out there who really feel that outside candidates have a real place potentially in 2012? >> that's certainly a possibility in 2012. let's be realistic. if you're going to be a viable presidential candidate for a third party in 2012 you better be able to raise a minimum of $1 billion, that's with a "b," $1 billion. but anything else would be more or less a fringe candidate. i think the leaders within the tea party movement are smart enough to realize that right now running a third party would help the democrats and they're not likely to do it. somebody else may do it. >> the person who can raise $1 billion, not raise it write it out of checking is mayor bloomberg of new york. this is someone who thought about running in 2008, and as

was said on "morning joe" he's a numbers guy, and he ran it every which way he could and found he could not win. jon meacham made a good point. say bloomberg does run for president, and remember people don't elect a president, the electoral college elects a president. say he wins plurality it goes to the house of representatives, there's no independent party within the house of representatives, it's democrats, republicans. and so you have mike bloomberg, for instance, who runs for president, but noose ohas no on vote for him as president. >> mike bloomberg is a very smart guy. he understands to run as a viable third party presidential candidate, you and to get on the ballot and getting on the ballot in each individual state is a horrific problem but not impock. >> in addition to money it takes infrastructure, a ground game, troops on the ground, signatures to get on the ballots and that's

the problem with a third party challenge is that they don't have the sort of national or even local infrastructure you need for the mechanics of running. >> thank you very much. i want to let people know, dan is the host of "dan rather reports" an hour-long program of interviews and investigative journalism. tuesday, he'll look at impact of guest workers on the economy. dan rather reports, watch it on hd net. fresh look and new round of interviews in the jonbenet ramsey case. what is going on now they're bringing this back? police think they can learn more than a decade after at beauty queen page en's mysterious murder. we'll look into it. pistols and pina coladas, loaded guns allowed in bars while tennessee, arizona, georgia, virginia explicitly permit guns in their wartsing holes, it raises questions in 20 other state where the laws don't

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lifestyle may affect job performance. a new study shows employees who smoke, don't exercise, and eat an unhealthy diet drive down productivity and take more sick days than other workers. smokers were 30% more likely to take sick leave than nonsmokers. is there a break in the jonbenet ramsey case? almost 14 years after the little girl's body was found in her family's home, police are going to reinterview some of the people involved. it was one of the recommendations from a 2009 commity that pours over all of the evidence surrounding jonbenet's death. one of the people police want to talk to his jonbenet's brother. he was 9 when his sister died. let's bring back former prosecutor star jones and nbc chief legal analyst dan abrams. a lot of people sort of thought this is one of those cold cases that stays cold. >> eye don't mean to be a downer, but i don't make much of it. the notion that they're interviewing burke sound likes a great headline, right? he was there he was 9 at the

time, some people falsely suggested that maybe he was involved. i mean, the truth is that if burke ramsey's being questioned or if they're saying to him let us know if you remember anything, he was 9 at the time, and it's clear he had nothing do with it. >> and i think that's -- we don't want to mislead either. i don't think there's any implication by police, is it possible? he was 9 years old, a traumatic experience, if they found other evidence, if they give him this evidence it will spark something? that is what they're trying to do if they know something a little different they can say, burke, did you notice something or see this thing and be specific about it as opposed to general. >> itprima tur to think it's ne.

whatever they present to any potential witness would be to spark a memory. there may be a person that walked by the street and assume he might remember something 15 years later. everyone forgets it's been that long. there's no -- >> and patsy ramsey's gone now. >> no institute of limitations on murder. even if they did find something all these years later, that would be built in reasonable doubt, i assume, for anybody that would be brought to trial. >> this is, you know, this is their effort to make sure they're covering themselves, which is 20009 committee's gone back and said, okay, here are things you ought to do. the truth is, these are the things they ought to have done. >> 15 years ago. >> exactly, ten years before. so now they've got this new list of things to do, and so they're going through and they're doing their things to do list. but as a practical matter, that's not, i don't think, going to to do almost anything at this point. there's a -- >> how many hands have touched it at this point? >> also, because any cold case is hard, right? >> yes. >> witnesses forget. it gets so much after that, star

would know better than me, almost all cold case as it they solve they find a any piece of evidence. >> or someone opens their mouth. whenever there's two people, always remember there's a chance one may break the pact. >> that is what they're waiting for. star, dan, thank you so much. we'll talk to you more coming up. the georgia pastor at the center of the sex scandal used his pulpit and a bible quote to indirectly address the accusations zens him. ♪ for he's a jolly good fellow ♪ the meeting's tomorrow in dallas ♪

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think you know the background, georgia pastor, megachurch, eddie long, accused of luring four young men into sexual relationships. yesterday his sunday sermon again indirectly addressed that sex scandal. thousands cheered, as long spoke to the congregation on his new birth missionary church. take a listen. >> now i'll repeat this, my

faith. >> my faith. >> is being. >> is being. >> strengthened. >> strength end. >> all right. >> long told the congregation he's, quote, not going to get pulled into a street fight and quotes the book of jobe saying, those who hate you will be clothed with shame, and the tent of the wicked will be no more. let's bring back former prosecutor star jones. you think that he really has not one issue, not just a legal issue, but so many? >> so many issues. actually, reverend long is approaching this from four different perspectives, he has four hats. on a civil defendant, he wants to limit liability. he is a christian pastor, which means he needs to lead his flock, lead by example, not do as i do -- do as i say, not what i do. he's a husband and a father, which means he needs to protect his family and try to limit the access to media, and he's a man. he wants to in some ways defend his own sexuality because the

allegations are pretty ugly. >> he supplied young boys with money and attention and all of that stuff. do you think, there have been people, including some folks, major folks in black raid crow that i've talked to who said he needs to stand up on that, address it directly, he needs to say i didn't do this, this is why they're doing this. he's not doing it. is it because of lawyers? >> from a media perspective, of course you want to get up and defend yourself. however, from the civil -- from the civil defendant perspective, you want to shut up. you never want to give the other side any ammunition. >> is that ha you tell him to do? >> if i were a lawyer i would say you be quiet. he will be a pastor after this i done but he may not have money if he does not listen to his lawyer. >> i don't see a client not listening to you somehow, star. good to see you. straight ahead --

>> damn bus [ bleep ] and this is -- >> we've sheown you this video, the father going after bullies on the school bus. we'll be hearing from his 12-year-old daughter. the supreme court begins its new term today. freedom of speech cases being heard could change life in america, as we know it. and sex in the usa. who's having it? how often? the result of the most comprehensive national sex survey in 15 years. in 2008 i quit venture capital to follow my passion for food. i saw a gap in the market for a fresh culinary brand and launched behindtheburner.com. we create and broadcast content and then distribute it across tv, the web, and via mobile. i even use the web to get paid. with acceptpay from american express open, we now invoice advertisers and receive payments digitally. and i get paid on average three weeks faster. booming is never looking for a check in the mail.

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the chilling details of this case horrified the nation. jurors will begin deliberating the fate of feign accused of viciously murdering and raping a doctor's wife and killing their daughters in their own home. the fast-food fight that could have a ripple effect across the country. ca