about the terror-related travel over europe. is morning, the japanese and swedish followed suit. a travel alert encourages americans in europe to be vigila vigilant. officials for now at least have stopped short of issuing a full-on travel warning. so, rather vague warning and a rather vague threat. here's what we were able to find out from a u.s. counterterrorism official as what they know so far. they say it involves ten al-qaeda operatives in europe. britain, germany and france are areas of concern. no specific targets have been laid out, but officials have learned there were to be multiple locations and the type of attacks would be patterned after the '08 shootings. the u.s. counterterrorism people we spoke with say this is not a

run of the mill threat, but a collection of intelligence from multiple sources pointing to an attack plan. but why europe, why now and not the yit? joining us now, frank -- and from london with more on how this is being handled, andy harmon. frank, i'll begin with you. how is this threat different than other terror threat alerts? >> obviously, i don't have access to all the intelligence, but clearly a judgment call is made on a case by case bases of the authenticity of the information and intelligence gleaned from a particular source. it's wrong to think europe is not another cross hairs of europe and al-qaeda.

you've had over 100 brittons traveling overseas to fight alongside al shabaab and a very strong statement made by the security service saying that it's a matter of fact until the threats come to the streets of london, so the united states is still in the cross hairs, but so are others and that's al-qaeda's objective. >> andy, what is your sense of the way western europe is set up to deal with handling these types of threats and if it is different, how so from the way you understand it to be dealt with in the states? >> in europe, united kingdom and spain, countries that have had major attacks. other countries have seen that and they're doing their own preparation, but the one thing that i think challenges all countries in europe is the cross-country cooperation. in a way, the terrorist groups might look to try and exploit

that and when we're trying to stop terrorists move across each country, it's paramount that those countries are talking on a regular bases and now, i think there's a question mark over. >> if you were to look at the -- muslim population in western europe, chief heyman, how much is the inability to integrate in europe of the muslim communities in france, in germany, a contributing factor to the ability to cultivate, recruit and target terrorism in europe? >> there are two sides of this argument. on the one side, law enforcement. what law enforcement are trying to do is work closely with the muslim community to try to stop the radicalization. the other side is the terrorists

groups trying to exploit some of those weaknesses and if they can, they've got a real rich recruitment ground. here in the united kingdom, a lot of money's being invested to try to stop this radicalization. it hasn't had much result. >> can you explain why? >> i think we see a muslim community here in the united kingdom which do feel isolated. they feel as though they're fighting a battle to establish themselves. they've been guest ins a way, the western world working against them. it's very difficult then to work alongside them. no trust. a lack of confidence. it's like a relationship that hasn't got off the starting blocks. so how can you then hope to have a working relationship in the future? >> a difficult situation. when you look at something like the terror alert, frank, what is

the intent? how much of that intent is beneficial to the population on the streets of europe and how much is done for the benefit of government who wants to appear vigilant even if there's no action that can be taken. >> that's an excellent question. and here before communicating terrorism threats and risks is still as much an art as it is a science. and there are obviously multiple reasons why you would want to issue an alert, but i wouldn't take out of the picture that a vigilant citizen could play a role and it could deter the actors themselves. it may force them to step back providing security to roll up the cells. if there's something in play, or it could also force them to trip up and move more quickly and proving the likelihood that law enforcement can jump in. it's a bit of an art and science. i'm not sure we've got it down

just right. but if you have that information, you have a responsibility to share that information. >> i guess it begs the question though, if i'm an american tourist in london or france and i'm under this terror alert, how is my behavior different than if i was coming to london without the terror alert? >> i'm afraid the reality in our experience here is that despite this kind of warning, after a couple of days, that just wanes back in their memories and they forget about it. this is a tough call for those in command of any situation. on the one hand, you might have some intelligence, it could be very flaky, very imprecise. if you ignore that, it might be an attack in the planning. on the other hand, if you keep giving too many warnings, people can become very complacent. what we've got here now, we're

asking the general public to keep their eyes and ears open and be extra eyes and ears because that will make the terrorists get on the back foot. >> frank, can i add -- i think my colleague made made a couple of excellent comments. back to the times square bombing. it was first picked up by a street bomber. at christmas, again, you had passengers take action to potentially prevent an incident. there are examples of where this has worked. initially, my colleague had mentioned a very important point. that's terrorism travel. here, we have a potential train wreck on our hands here. the european union and united states on passenger name wrecker. the ability to do data mining and behavioral analysis on terrorism travel. i just caution that here,

there's an opportunity to accelerate some of those programs and i hope we do. >> absolutely. great points from both of you. thank you so much as we work together to deal with the threat. hopefully, we can continue to try to find ways to work together to deal with the root causes including the disenfranchisement of some of these communities. thank you, both. coming up, would you rather talk to a customer service rep in india or indiana? today's job wars segment, we'll talk about innovation, new ideas and bringing jobs back home from overseas may be easier than you think. we're back after this. running there? dancing there? how about eating soup to get there? campbell's soups fill you with good nutrition, farm-grown ingredients, and can help you keep a healthy weight. campbell's. it's amazing what soup can do. guarantee me the best deal on my refinance loan, or pay me $1,000? that would be nice, not getting swindled.

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need to be doing more. not less to equip our workers with skills and training they need in the 21st century. it's an economic imperative. >> today's job wars training workforce for the future. today as you heard the president announcing a new partnership to retrain americans to get businesses and community colleges on the same page. this of course is a tough times continue for the 15 million americans out of work. the new list out today offering a snapshot of the worst job markets out there. jogñ listing in detroit, 14%. similar numbers in riverside, california. many miami, eight out of work for every one opening listed. we get the problem. how do we increase the odds and

jobs? you know the problems. let's talk about solutions like support for new businesses and innovative ideas. ones that solve or problems. joining us now, ceo of the calvin foundation. also here, angela sheldon. if you're in need of a job, remember thename. arise. looking to hire 6,000 workers over the next three months to work in virtual call centers. how are you? carl, when you take your research which shows you jobs are created, when new businesses are able to be created, how do you reconcile that fact, that new businesses are where jobs are created with the political realities of small business versus big business? >> i think the real trick coming out and is relatively new, we've

been able to confirm in cross national studies that the variable is the new formation. it's not small and it's not entrepreneurial in orgin. >> does that wash with you? >> absolutely. we see in our business about 14,000 new small businesses that were created in the last few years. with arise. >> so you get more business when there's more business being done. >> that's right. >> we've looked at the obstacles to the formation of new business and this comes through new dialogue with the coffman foundation and others. it goes like this. without a culture of investment in your country period. small investment or big

investme investment. and then the complexity, the business formation from tax structure to regulation. those seem to be the primary hurdles. what politically can be done to diminish those types of hurdles? >> you're right in your diagnos diagnosis. these are the factors that can dampen new formation. we have to emphasize the importance of the entrepreneur and brand new businesses to the vital health of the american economy. right now, we are in, still in the aftershocks of a huge strong embrace that came which every time there's a major recession, all economists go back and they rattle canes as bones. canes never understood

entrepreneurs. he thought they were speculative and not important. he saw the world as big established firms to london and outlying areas in england and the united states. so, the first attack has to be stressing how important the entrepreneurs are to restarting the economy. >> and what do you find is the most effective statistic in making that case? if you were sitting with the president, what would you show him? >> i'd say, mr. president, none of your advisers really appreciate this. 40% of gdp in the united states this year is from firms that did not exist in 1980. 40%. so, you see, mr. president, is it is in our best interest to have more new entrants. replace the older firms. we're better off because they'll create new jobs. >> go ahead, angela. >> one of the exciting things we're seeing in our business, the opportunity for us to bring

jobs that had been sent overseas. either to manila or india back on tour is the opportunity for people to add new ways to work. they work from home. they to customer service or sales calls. we find that not only are folks able to work for the first time or go back to work, but we're seeing new entrepreneurial businesses growing as a result. what we're finding are people like lexy mitchell who has created a business to help coax better performers. she has a business that supported about 150 people, teaching them to be more competent and confident. >> when you look at these a dapations, it's possible you could have a workforce working out of their homes doing what is

being done -- the technology wouldn't support your doing that. there are other things, whether the banking system, the deployment of the most recent education could certainly deploy the -- than it does. the lot of reasons it appears it doesn't happen is because special interests and the role of the major industries in control i controlling both political parties do that to their perpetuation and at the exe pence of their ability to adapt. do you think that the politicians in this country understand they are the agent that bears the interests of the old businesses that are trying to prevent themselves from having to go under. >> i think that not much is different now than from a long time ago. the railroads used to own american state houses. we've watched whole other groups

of people capture our government in the past. i think the undeniable force that just keeps driving america and i think it's stronger now than ever. if you think about all of our engineers in our highly educated, very competent pool of people. theng about creating businesses where we didn't used to have that. even in high schools. i think back on my own high school career, nobody new anybody who started a high growth business. it was general electric, general motors. that's where you were supposed to go to work. these days, data suggests that 70% of college seniors want to start their own business and it's not mom and pop businesses. they want to be bill gates. they want to start a facebook. they want to start a business that hires lots of people. >> and doing that despite a

captured government is nothing new. >> entrepreneurs themselves are a disruptive political force. >> speaking of disruptive political forces, the politics of outsourcing versus home shoring. this is something you have addressed directly. in fact, you made a proposal to the president at one point cht i've got a quote of you saying to close the gap between the very small percentage difference that exists between the costs to offshore a job and costs to home shore a job is small. you are suggesting a tax credit. can you give me an example of how much of a difference that is economically? >> certain lly. there are two factors. the first is that a home storing worker doesn't require an eight-hour shift, so a lot of the waste that exists in a bricks and mortar call center is eliminated because folks are working only when the calls are coming in.

what we're finding is that 2.3 calls are placed to an offshore company for someone to get their question answered versus the question being answered for the first time if you speak with someone around the block versus around the world. >> do you have statistics around the world? >> one call for 2.3 calls offshore. >> what types of businesses are the quickest to take you up? >> that's a great question. the early adap tors are retailers and travel companies. understanding the needs of specific customers was very important. but now, we're seeing every industry embracing it. everyone who has a brand that matters to them and customer experience they want to enhance can benefit from folks in the u.s. taking calls from home. >> a pleasure to get the privilege to talk with both of you. angela, congratulations. arise virtual solutions.

14,000 over the next three months. >> 6,000. >> 6,000 more. 20,000. carl, thank you for helping us understand where the jobs come from. the new business people. up next, gold rush fever. a banking giant going back to basics opening up a massive gold volt. the gold's a coming. we're back after this. ♪ [ man ] i thought our family business would always be boots. until one day, my daughter showed me a designer handbag. and like that, we had a new side to our business. [ male announcer ] when the martinez family saw an opportunity, the hartford was there. protecting their employees and property, and helping them prepare for the future. nice boots. nice bag.

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we're back with the death of the freshman last week who took his own life after having an encounter broadcast on the internet. keli goff is with us. >> there's a famous story in the goff household about my mom's first week back in school after it was integrated. there was a boy who would shout the n-word at her every day. on the fifth day, she declared loud enough for everyone to hear that she was going to beat the stuffing out of him, but thankfully, the principal stepped in and warned the bully that if he didn't leave her alone, he would not only let her hit him, but kick him out of school. what if i told you that there's kids across america that are facing the same level of verbal

abuse or worse for years and that the victims are taking their own lives. you'd probably say not today, but you'd be wrong. in recent weeks, three boys killed themselves. all either self-identified as gay or their classmates believed they were. they faced constant bullying ranging from verbal to physical at the hands of classmates. last year, suicide of 11-year-old carl walker hung himself after being teased by classmates who accused him of being gay. in each of these stories, it is alleged that the children and parents sought help and guidance from school officials, only none displayed the courage my mom's principal did. which makes me think the kids are getting their cues from adults. it's not okay to call someone

the n-word on the playground, but it is okay to call them the f-word. there have been significant advances of gay rights, but until we as adults confront homophobia head on, kids are going to continue victimizing kids. we owe our kids more than that. >> how much of this do you believe goes to the quality of the communities that we have? in other words, when you have the digital universe and we have a world that's always us and them. it's never us. it's the men versus the women. the rich versus the poor. >> democrats versus republicans. >> gay versus straight. that the concept of us in this country as a principal of negotiating or relating appears to be at a low in our history.

and how much of this is symptom attic of the broader community issue of basically division as opposed to unity or collection of some kind. >> i think you hit the nail on the head. when i say that about adults taking responsibility. i don't just mean the parents and schools. it's an example we should all be setting. when you have members of congress who call each other names, it sends a message that's how you respond when someone's different than you. it says you're right, the community has changed and not for the better. >> if you look, i look at my behavior hosting this show and i look at my willingness, particularly when i first star started doing this, to be inappropriately abusive, i treated some of my guests, part of that comes from a certain degree of comfort you feel

there's so much distress, what everybody else is doing is so bad, so wrong, so ill intentioned, that your counterbehavior in some way is justified or necessary in that context. it is only possible if you're not connected to those people. if you look across, the tea party guys are crazy. the republicans are crazy. the rich people are the problem. the men are the problem. do you have any suggestion as to how you even begin to close the gap between me and you, anybody and anybody else to diminish these dynamics? >> the first thing is to remember that not everyone we disagree with is our enemy. we have to move beyond that and move by example. there are little eyes watching. i get mad at someone rude to me on the street and i'm tempted to say something.

we're setting an example. >> bring back chivalry. >> that would be nice. >> pleasure. thanks for the rant. our job wars segment, the internet's all abuzz on how to get people in the country. this one -- in fact, check the numbers. start-ups account for 20% of gross job creation in this country. i think the politicians understandably get drawn to small businesses because new ones tend to be smaller, but the fact of the matter is encouraging the development of a small or big business or judging it based on its size seems incredibly misguided when all you really need is an environment that encourages innovation, investment, education and opportunity. which is something we've lost

sight of completely. we're on the warpath on that one. new business, not small business. you got something to share? logon and tweet us your thoughts. we're taking a break. just ahead, our monday megapanel. talking about who still sporupps the president and a conversation on the white house shake up. we're back after this. busy man. his day starts with his arthritis pain. that's breakfast with two pills. the morning is over, it's time for two more pills. the day marches on, back to more pills. and when he's finally home... but hang on; just two aleve can keep arthritis pain away all day with fewer pills than tylenol. this is steven, who chose aleve and 2 pills for a day free of pain. and get the all day pain relief of aleve in liquid gels.

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monday, that means we've got an all-star panel with us. with us now, jonathan altar jim saider. with a mouth to back it up and speaking of such things, republican strategist, essy tufts. which also comes with a very powerful mouth. some of the polling news out of the day, specially the racial devid. if you look at the data, it's fairly blunt. overall, the presidential approval rating, 45%. nonh nonhispanic blacks -- you were saying these drive you raicrazy.

>> they do. it doesn't really tell us anything. this is not a conversation starter. it's a conversation ender. we don't know why non hispanics and blacks still approve of obama and we don't know if all of obama's critics are white racists. i think a lot of media organizations trot these polls out in an attempt to tell some story that isn't there. >> the whole story about the left and liberals and democrats deserting obama is overblown. you can see his numbers are still holding up there. in fact, moderates still 54%, still support him. we're at numbers that basically clinton was out. reagan was a little under. george herbert walker bush was the only one who was up at this time in his presidency. these polls don't matter, but they tell us some stories are overblown.

>> i don't know that 45% approval is holding up. i'm sure he'd like it to be a little higher. there are other polls with lower numbers. >> you have covered, you get this and the way washington functions in a way few people do and if you look at the culture of division, split any way you want. where do we stand in the divided culture of debate and problem solving going to the keli goff conversation we were just having as opposed to moving toward any direction where we disagree, but let us walk together and is this sympt symptomatic of that? >> it is. this is all against the backdrop of a changing america. the demographics are changing quite quickly and i think a lot of the action against obama is that he personifies that change. ronald reagan, when he ran for president and john mccain got

the same percentage of the white vote, reagan won big. mccain lost. the demographics are changing and that's one of the things that people are afraid of. not because they're racist, but because that's not the america they grew up in. >> changing demographics sim l to unemployment, pointing to the other guy. >> that's what's happening. another dimension is that a hot of the folks unemployed -- a lot of reaction against obama is from people who are employed. they have jobs, but are very afraid of the future and so there's been a lot of talk that the racial dimension is part of our path. >> the other thing with obama,

you say we can debate whether there's support. how much of the rejection of obama to the extent to which he has diminished support today compare today a couple of years ago is a reflection of obama and how much is a reflection of the continued realization that both parties are largely the function of those who pay them. special interests and so -- obama's not like the other guys. maybe he is because the system demands everybody function in this way. i'll give you -- >> which is you still have 9.6% unemployment and we shouldn't at this point and part of the reason i think is because when guys like larry summers thought about and proposed a stimulus, they were looking at it as an insurance program as opposed to one that actually would take care of the problem.

they didn't want to bottom to fall out, but for a lot of people, 9.7% unemployment, is and should be the bottom. >> there's the big thing that's being led by paul krugman, if only the stimulus had been bigger in early 2009, then we wouldn't have had this kind of problem. why is obama such a wimp and didn't have a bigger stimulus? the answer is that in the real world of washington, the real world as opposed to fantasy world, there is no chance. this was reiterated last week by a top senate aide of a stimulus over a trillion dollars. it would not have passed. >> quickly -- >> having gone in, it may not have pass ed -- the argument

would be enough. we told you at that time we needed 1.3 trillion. we didn't get it because you say it was impossible. they'd have a better argument for a second stimulus now. >> the whole thing that is long as you have old industries that are paying the government to protect their survival on the left and right, you can spend stimulus money, you can write unemployment checks, but until you allow the businesses that have been displaced by the development in our economy and technology, who are preserving themselves by infiltrating the government effectively to preserve their integrity, you're not going to have jobs because those industries are making money by getting long other countries and getting short our own country. if you look at caterpillar, general electric, the major corporations, they are much more long. brazil, china. when it comes to the big political debate, if you deal

with china, then you hurt ge and caterpillar even if you hurt america and that puts the people in d.c. in a heck of a situation. >> a story "the new york times" this morning, these big companies are hoarding cash. borrowing money for nothing. >> i know. >> don't have enough confidence to move forward. even overseas, they're not spending a money. >> you look at the flow of money from our corporations from the american tax space, using american corporations in our banking system to take money out and put it into china and other countries, it's what has been going on. if you look where it has gone, why is there no lending, it's because the political architecture for business, you have these businesses that are long global development, but if you talk to american businesses, talk to people -- new core steel, nobody letting me bid on

contracts in canada. so while the americans let everybody bid on our contracts which is understandable, we're not playing fair because our companies can't bid on the brazilian contracts. >> they're waiting to hear about the bush tax cuts, which is making american companies hesitant to hire and spend money. >> for me, tax policy and the bush tax cuts are a different thing. >> they're contributing. >> there's no evidence. >> nothing. >> job creation is directly a result of investment, education and complexity. >> why aren't we telling them what they can do? >> it was the first ten years of this century or after these bush tax cuts, did we get this new business investment.

get all this job growth. no. there's simply not a connection. it's nice for their -- >> the money of the wealthiest who got the tax cuts much like the banks and corporations was taken and invest t in china and brazil. basically, we gave people tax cuts so they could take the money out of the country. >> that's free market. >> is it free market if the american corporations that are long are preventing others from bidding. you say it's a free market, but if you get to do what you want and i get to do ng, how is that a free market? >> well, i understand, but when you look at labor in general, when you're going to bail out a corporation or bank and you say do whatever with the money and they don't spend it the way you want. >> the market -- the market is

free if you can send a few hundred thousand dollars to take control of a political party. the moderate american capital m capitalism, send the money to d.c. and everybody else can stick it let's talk about the democratic party. specifically gibbs going to run the dnc and the changes in the information. is there anything for us to learn about how this is set up. >> we're so used to being so concerned about who has what staff job. who's manipulating him. this guy makes his own decisions. he's in charge. this is when i came over again and again when i was reporting on this white house. you can switch is players around and argue he needed a wider circle of advice, that he needed more people, but the particular individuals are so much less relevant than what's going on in his head.

he is not on anybody's puppet string. >> he's got 1,100 czars to talk to. >> they're all saying the same thing. does it mean a wider net or different poichbt points of view? >> i believe he is making his own decisions almost contrary to the will of the american people. i really like this gibbs dnc thing. >> why? >> because i think he's a snarky guy and i don't think it's appropriate as white house press secretary. i think he wants to open up his personality and be more -- >> chitchatery and cheerleadery. >> he's been wants to expand his role since the campaign. there's some pretty powerful folks on the nd who aren't sure he should play outside that. >> a pleasure to have the conversation. i'm going to keep you because i understand d.c.'s the smartest

town going. >> that's what they tell us. >> we're going to see if we can figure out how that happened or how it's not helping. jonathan altar, a pleasure. coming up, chuck todd, chris matthews breaking down the numbers. but first, a new list of america's smartest cities including the dubious number one after this. interesting grooming. thanks. i got the idea from general mills big g cereals. they put a white check on the top of every box to let people know that their cereals have healthy whole grain, and they're the right choice... (announcer) general mills makes getting whole grain an easy choice. just look for the white check.

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are you smarter than a crook

ed politician. smartest cities based on the number of college grads. number one, washington, d.c. apparently, it takes a lot of brain power to mess up a country this bad. we brought back sam so have to conversation. am i too cynical? >> no, i don't think so. i think it's the wrong people. i mean, you know, you have joe down there, the paul krugman's down there. we're in much better shape. we have people who care about maintaining the integrity of our government and the telling statistic that came out of this is not just that they're highly educated, but they have one of the highest median averages of income in the country and that is the one that makes us talk. >> look at the average salary in d.c. 85k. national, $50,000. does the fact that washington,

because of the way our government has been functioning for the past decade for not longer, medicare part d under george bush, department of homeland security. expansion of the military complex and subsequent expansion of military authority. now the expanded footprint in the government in health care. that our educational system is in disarray and that real people don't have work and money. >> i would also add to that list, military industrial complex. if you go around washington, d.c., the real money is in there because you've got people making weapons and getting money from the military. that's where a lot of money is coming from. but yes, i think the point remains that if you're living a

gated community of wealthy people, it's pretty hard to see the pain and you know, washington, you've got a lot of people who clear out of the city and go up to the suburbs of maryland, virginia. they don't see what's going on in this country and remember that book by jared diamond, your society's collapse when the rich don't realize what's going on in the county. >> we're at point where a lot of things could happen. volatility in general for what a next steps are is extraordinarily high. what do you view as the beginnings of decisions that go towards solution as opposed to the frustration of a tea partier who's right to understand or feel there's an unfairness that the government is rigged against them or not, who knows, but instead of burning yourself in the town square and screaming

and yelling, channelling that energy into something that has benefit to society. >> i would love to see some type of election reform. the only way you're going to get a government that is more responsi responsive, a government that sees 9.7% unemployment as an urgent problem is one that i think where there's less corporate influence in all phases of government. and i think the only way that's going to happen is if you figure out a way to get the corporate money out of politics. >> why hasn't dick durbin done that? >> well, it's a hard -- it's a hard road. fair elections would be a great first start. matching funds would be terrific, too. more disclosure. >> it just seems an impossible thin