these images. dozens of nato supply trucks attacked in pakistan, gunmen attacking and setting fire to some 55 oil tankers in two separate incidents today. these just the latest assaults on convoys taking supplies to afghanistan since pakistan closed a keyboarder crossing just last week. their blockade of that border crossing, they say a result of heightened tensions between the united states and pakistan and in the wake of a helicopter attack that killed two pakistani soldiers and wounded four others. now, there's basically one road in which means the bad guys know where to put the bombs, don't they? to put it in brief it appears we are making friends with enemies and enemies out of alliessome this a new strategic direction in the war and more importantly what does it mean for our troops on the ground and what does it mean for our security here at home? joining us now, lieutenant colonel anthony schaffer for the center of advanced studies and the aught over the new book "censored by the pog" no less,

operation dark heart, spy craft and special ops on the front lines of afghanistan and the path to victory. is there such a thing as a peace talk with a tribal network that the taliban is? >> you are talking about taliban being a tapestry. it is not the model of soviet threat, you deal with one thing, you deal with it all. you have the two networks which are equally violent and effective and we are talking right now, according to the public reports, talking to really the amullah omar element. frank lit largest but not everything. simply talking to the largest is not going to get you anywhere with the other ones. dylan, everybody has their own self-interests. this is tribal warfare. this goes back to the tenth century and done this time and time again that's why no one has been effectively able to go in

there and whip a military conflict for thousands of years. >> it appropriate for a man like myself to go on television and say there are peace talk? >> appropriate by the fact you are reporting the news what is factual. the question becomes how will this effect the end game next year? we have talked about a condition-based withdrawal what are those conditions? is this going to be one of the conditions there is some level of peace talk? i think that it is necessary, but again it has to be comprehensive. one of the things general petraeus said two weeks ago is he felt, and this is in my book that you are going to have to have some level of a northern ireland peace process. >> what does that mean? >> that means basically if anyone who studied northern ireland and by the fact right now it is relatively peaceful, still terrorist acts but minimal, they actually had to work to bring both sides to the table and some cases, let me be clear, this was a bloody, brutal process, where some things were given regarding the promise of amnesty oh of a political seat

at the table which by the way, karzai denied the taliban until now in northern ireland, they had to promise people not no-nonsense terrorists, a real terrorist, a seat at the table that meant giving up up a the different acts of violence in the past to include murder it worked in northern ireland. in the case of northern ireland, it took each side, the catholics and the provos, killing their own. required a culling. >> ireland was not a tenth century tribal warfare, a mountains nation. >> right. this is why the complexity of the afghan station situation is ten times more than northern ireland, i grant you that >> can i just go back to the bigger question here, which is we have got troops there spending money there we went into that country a long, long time ago in an effort to preserve of our own security. >> right, nine years ago. a long time ago. >> nine years. the question becomes what is our best interest now? our interest is the fact that we need to focus on national issues

relevant to us. that is preventing further terrorist attacks, faisal shahzad, who was just convicted yesterday is going to jail. he was trained in pakistan. we have not had my new terrorist attacks sponsored or directed from afghanistan. if i was the president, i would declare victory and say it's time to start the drawdown now. throw the taliban off their time line. they think we are leaving next summer, start now but effectively dealing with the issues which we have to deal with to be -- ensure our own security. >> which means pakistan. >> pakistan. >> tremendous amount of military activity we are seeing reported out of pakistan. >> just saw the attacks on convoys. >> and seeing that pakistan has a blockade that is preventing u.s. convoys from coming from the air supply chain in pakistan into afghanistan which mean there is one road instead of two which means that it is easier for the bad guys, as i said in the introduction to know where that is what does that imply about the quality of our relationship with pakistan and where do we stand with inside of

pakistan with the relationship between the of pakistan and the people? >> we, by not understanding the nature of the culture helped destabilize pakistan and i think it is coming back to bite us now the culture there understands the idea of vengeance. if i kill your sister, i can come get you. i mean, there is a quid pro quo. we forced the pakistanis into going into waziristan to take care of business for us. i think that was a very bad move and now it has come back to be this mishmash of interests, that pakistanis have their own interests but that interest is not necessarily giving rid of the taliban that goes become to the original point. you have the network functioning as a proxy for the isi hitting indian interests in the interior of afghanistan. so until the pakistanis sort through what -- what they want to do and we work with them to establish some idea of who's on which side, we are going to see chaos. and this is where our being there in the numbers we are in afghanistan is not really helping the real heart of the

issue, which is pakistan which is an extension of the cold war between the pakistanis and the indians. so we are two levels away from the the real source of the issue. >> so, what do you think would happen if the president of the united states came out and said we are pulling out of afghanistan, we are going to launch into -- a series of diplomatic and economic leverage with stack stan to try to sort out mess that that is? what would happen to our national security? i don't care what about what happens there? what would happen to american national secure fit it made that decision? >> frankly, i think enhanced on two levels. first off, expense, talking $800,000 per soldier deployed in theater. >> per day? >> $800,000 per day is what i have been told. that is a lot of money to spend. >> yeah. >> what you have got do is pull back from that and figure out how to actually do what is necessary to protect us, which is a sense of looking at the leadership targets and forcing them to the table. this is the other part of the northern ireland peace process, there was brutality involved to push people to the table. so when you look at this you try to figure out how to bring people together to focus on the

actual issues, which is in pakistan, not in afghanistan, let the tribes sort it out. the tribes have been there -- dylan, been there for 10,000 years. that is why the soviets weren't successful, why the british weren't successful. i know we are a bright country, we have bright military leaders but again to anticipate your question directly, i don't think is there much of a downside at this point in time saying, time to draw down t is time to focus on our objectives, which is to create stability in that we don't want new terrorist attacks but we should not be supporting the karzai government directly but by the fact they are there but for one other tribe. >> last question for you. >> yes. >> do you believe the barrier to doing that is a strategic difference of opinion or a look of political resolve to actually do the hard work to change course? >> i think the political resolve will be inevitable by the fact we have announced a draw down. all i'm saying is, okay, you have announced it let's do it let's do it now let's throw the timelines off. they are counting on us leaving next summer why wait? let's start the process now. try to help with the diplomatic

process that we started with, northern ireland peace process, something along that line and continue to do the targeted work, i argue we should be doing more boots on the ground than drones but there's some billion of that that is necessary to actually continue to do what's necessary. and we got to find out other faisal shahzads out there he said yesterday in court there's more of them. i belt you there r let's figure out how to find out where they are and go after them. >> got t listen, always a pleasure, anthony schaffer, the book "operation dark heart, spy craft and special ops on the frontlines of afghanistan." always a pleasure. >> thank you. coming up here on the dylan ratigan show, how lawmakers are, as we all know, like nascar driver. we will look at corporate sponsorship in congress as we are a month out from this big election. and what capitol hill would look like firefighters based on, well, where the cold hard cash comes from. think of it like a transparent radio. bizarre, i know. could legalized pot help re-elect president obama in 2012, even if he is against legalizing pot? a legitimate campaign strategy

being debated right now in the democratic party to try to get younger voters to the polling booths. we will mix it up, after this. [ female announcer ] olay professional pro-x. sold out online in 17 minutes. beauty editors are raving. the clinical results are astounding. olay professional pro-x. read all about it at olayprofessional.com. but my allergies put me in a fog. so now, i'm claritin clear! claritin works great on all my allergies like dust, mold, pollen, or pets

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all right. welcome back. let's mention some of the day's top stories, a look at who owns our congress, of course and legalized marijuana or propositions to do so could re-elect the president in 2012, regardless of his feelings on the issue. up first what are republican arens, democrats and nascar drivers tend to have in common? they are all bought and pay for in the case of our politicians by the six says there control our government.

folks over at mother jones ran the numbers on political donors and got us to wounding what it would look like if our politician also to advertise their sponsors just like jeff gordon or danica patrick. turns out the real majorities in congress aren't democrats or republicans they are big banks and big labor. imagine congress's two schoolhouse classrooms, room one, the senate. now imagine if the seating chart was grouped by interest. and i don't mean basketball or reading. these are special interests, as in the corporate donors who bankroll your politicians. the real cool kids in the room, finance, insurance and real estate. 57 out of 100 senators get the majority of their money from finance. not to be outdone by lawyers and lobbyists who own a quarter of our senators, the rest of the kids in the class include health, agribusiness and energy. only three senators didn't raise any money from corporate donors. now down the hallway to the house. wall street and the labor unions make up three-quarters of the room.

but health and energy are also there and there's still room in the corner for defense and transportation. let's bring in our panel to mix it up, democratic strategist crist kofinis, republican strategist, brent littlefield. i will start with you, chris. had had this conversation too many times with too many folks in washington, d.c., sitting politicians, adviser, et cetera, everybody acknowledges the problem but no one seems too know what to do about it. why is that? >> well, because the answers that will actually solve this problem no one wants to really kind of pursue, which is publicly funding elections. i mean, here is the brutal reality. >> what if you were just transparent about it? instead of going straight to public elections, we just stopped letting them give money in secret? >> i think we can do that, definitely would help but it wouldn't, i think, you know, mitigate what is the bigger problem here, which is you have members of congress or senators date they get elected they have to start fund raising for their next election. so it creates this culture of dependence, you need enough resources to win and it is very

difficult for democrats or republicans, if they are a member of congress or a senator to really tap the grass roots small donors. in some cases, you can, but overall, you can't, so it becomes this kind of lee relie yans. he think until we really find -- realize the problem here is the amount of money you need to run and win has become ridiculous, we start publicly funding elections, we are going to have this problem. >> brent, what do you say? >> wow, i say that is a great argument that chris is making to show the difference between democrats, republicans or quite frankly, dylan, conservatives and liberals they would immediately go to public financing or taxpayer money being spent on something. think public financing is a terrible idea. >> no, no hold on, hold to on, hold on, brent, i don't have a lot of time if you want to criticize chris' idea do it on somebody else's tv show. my question is i have politicians, labor and banks that are largely in control of both parties and it is done without transparency that is my question to you, which is what

would you do about it, not whether you think chris' idea is dumb. >> the reason i bring up that, dylan is to answer your question. that is that a lot of these candidates actually do raise an awful lot of money by small dollar donors and other individuals. i don't know if mother jones, i'm always skeptical of mother jones. >> now your things is you're going to discredit it, you think i'm wrong? >> what i'm going to tell you, dylan it's very, very, very hard to raise money and when you go out and tough ask somebody to write a check to your campaign which is not a fun thing to do would you please contribute to my campaign and support my ideas it is a hard thing to do and just as hard to do that as it is to go out and ask for a vote and shows the toughness of a candidate when they are willing and able to go to their neighbor and say would you please finance my campaign? that is why public financing doesn't work so well. >> chris, look again, assume the conservative view point, we believe in self-reliance, we believe in small government, we believe in limited interaction between business and government, doesn't allowing corporate money to secretly fund politicians from both sides, which is only

done because the return on investment for sending a couple hundred grand to d.c. is billions of dollars in tax loopholes fly in the face of a conservative ideology? brent? >> i'm sorry, i thought you were asking for chris. >> i'm asking you, brent, i'm sorry. i'm saying conservative ideology -- >> listen, first of all, you said secretly it is obviously not secretly, you just reported on it we know about it because it is in finance reports. a lot of the money -- >> again, brent, not answering my question. not try to be difficult. do this with as few words that will offend you or distract you as possible. i'm a conservative and believe in self-reliance through entrepreneurialism and self-reliance, independence, i have said that a few times, why i be in favor of a system where if i can send a little bit of money, a labor union, a large bank or an agribusiness to a politician and politician can

then alter the tax code and/or alter the subsidy and/or alter the regulatory structure on my behalf so that i no longer have to compete as a business but now i'm able to return billions of dollars to myself for a couple hundred grand given to a democrat or a republican in public or in secret, why is that conservative? >> i'm not going to argue whether it is conservative or liberal. i would argue to you it is not as bad as it seems again because we are going to back to the fact there is a lot of small-dollar donors in there and i would argue for most politician, regardless of political party, democrat or republican, they are not jumping through hoops to do what a campaign contributor wants them to do they have stated public policy positions, they reason on a platform and you tend to find that groups that support them, individuals or pac as they are bringing up or other groups they can sport candidates that support them before they start running. so i would argue with you that it snot as it is painted to be as bad as you say, certainly for some politicians, it may be, but

i would say for the vast majority of them regardless of party, not as bad as some would try to paint it to be. >> the only thing i will say on your small dollar point, write take issue with it, people will say, listen, 80% of the donations came from small-dollar donors and that maybe true. barack obama used that line, which i also think was honestly a crock, because if i get $1 from 80 people and then get ten people who give me $1 billion each, who do you think i work for? >> i am just telling you my experience with democrats and republicans on the hill, i tend to find most people have stated policy positions, run on those positions, the people that support them are supporting the positions they are already running on. i don't see candidates changing their positions overnight or changing what they believe in because someone has written a campaign check. i don't see that happen. >> democratic strategists, meanwhile, considering a ballot initiative to legalize marijuana as a which to motivate young voters in the 2012 election. the plan, the republicans, rolled out an issue in 2004 to ban gay marriage in key swing

states to fire up conservative voters. one of those state, ohio, where bush wonby two points energy that case, it may have worked. some believe gay marriage boosted turnout and dems home that marijuana legalization ballots would so dot same thing for liberal voters. in california, adding a pot initiative boosted the number of extreme interested voters by almost 15% regardless of what you think about it. what do you think about this as a political tactic, brent? >> i think the folks dreaming this up might have been using the tactic a little bit too much. this might be a smoke screen to disguise the fact we have high unemployment numbers in this country and that people are concern about the economy and they don't like the current administration or the congress because we can't find any jobs in this country. >> chris, what do you say? >> well, i mean, you know, these ballot innish it was, ones that were on minimum wage, gay marriage, they rally parts of the base n this one, i don't know what effect it is having in

california, i don't think this is one you could roll out across the country, i think it would probably play better in liberal or blue states, but interesting postelection what impact it had but this is clearly a strategy you will see the republicans and the democrats play out in varying ways, use the ballot initiatives to energize their respective bases. >> brent, to suggest something other than this anybody have any ideas for ways to manipulate the elector rat with things like gay marriage and marijuana legalization? >> look, any time you let the voters vote on anything, i don't think you are manipulating the electorate. the voters can make the decision. i don't think this would pass and i agree with chris on that i don't think it will pass in a lot of states, these are kind of side issue, i think, to the key problems, which is what i was pointing out before, which i think is jobs and the economy. >> you don't think the fact that 60% over of our senate is largely funded by financial institutions responsible for lending and investment in this country and respect doing it has anything to do with the lack of

jobs? >> i am never gonna disagree with you on the fact we need some reform in the financial sector. >> finally, secretary of state hillary clinton responding to rumors she and vice president joe bidenen may swap jobs in 2012. >> we have great relationship and i have absolutely no interest and no reason for anything other than just dismissing these stories and moving on, because there's -- we have no time. we have so much to do and i think both of us are very happy doing what we're doing. >> chris, a distraction? what is this? >> it is an irritation. we are not even finished with the midterm elections, already talk about you know, conspire business is replacing, you know, vice president biden for 2012? i really don't believe there's anything to it. for one simple reason. play it hypothetically. replace the vice president is not going to alter the dynamics of where president obama may be or may not be come 2012. it is just not the way it works.

so, i don't buy a lot of this talk at all. >> brent how or why are we talking about had? >> i don't know why we are talking about this again, an election in a few weeks, you think that is what the voters concerned and care about i think maybe be if you want to point to something, just that there is dissatisfaction if i could talk, the current ped president, his administration, people are looking for noticing create some kind of change. most voters will have that change at the ballot box this fall but clearly, hillary clinton has a lot of supporters around this country and in that party, the democratic party and maybe be they think it will help the administration or help barack obama in the next election cycle. >> benevolent republicans so nice to hear. >> all right, gentlemen, thanks for the conversation. up next here, a woman who called 911 on what she thought was a burglar. turns out, however, it was someone from the bank, of course. lenders cutting corners and taking advantage of homeowners in trouble, all sponsored by your federal government. that's next. ♪

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welcome back. the housing crisis has been down right fright thing but for one woman, it became terrifying when the bank changed the locks on her door while she was inside. she called 911, thinking a burglar was trying to break in. listen to the call. >> clearly the worst nightmare for one in five homeowners now facing foreclosure in this country, but here's the thing. this woman was never foreclosed on. she had been late on her mortgage payments and we reached out to the bank and they told us they actually apologized for the breaking and toerpgt change the locks when they weren't foreclosing. not much recourse beyond that, from what i can tell. still this might be another disturbing sign in the growing problem of property rights that we will be covering this week

and in the months to come. nancy jacobini. is the woman whose voice you heard on that recording and there with her attorney, matthew widener. share your experience at the time of the break-in, nancy. >> actually, i was in my room, i had the light on, it was a very rainy day. all of a sudden, i heard somebody hit the handle, like they were trying to get in. and the aggressiveness got even more severe and i was very frightened. i locked myself in the bathroom. i felt that that was the only protection i had, not knowing who was actually at my door or how many people or if the person had a gun, a knife, a sex offender. i was just frightened to death. >> had you been given any warning from the bank before this happened and how far back on your mortgage were you at the time? >> no, sir. i wasn't -- i'm not in

foreclosure. i was not given any warning. i am working on a loan modification and i actually was perhaps maybe four -- four months, five months behind, at the most. >> mr. widener, is it legal for a bank to do this? >> it absolutely is not. i want to tell you it is the wild west out there right now. unfortunately, this example here is not unique. i have collected examples from all across the country where these banks are just flagrantly ignoring laws, kicking down doors. i think it is so critical to emphasize that in this case, she is not in foreclosure at all. again that is not unique. these banks have become emboldened where now they are kicking down doors. we had a newspaper report in another example, a quote from one of the presidents of these companies who said we are not even fazed by lawsuits anymore. >> a statement from alan grayson, the represent tivgs i understand, in your district from this afternoon in response to your story saying breaking

and entering does not become legal just because a big bank does it the rule of law must apply equally to everyone. it's long pastime to halt this blatantly illegal activity. we need investigation and law enforcement, not coddling of failed institutions. we need justice for all. did you call the law enforcement officials, nancy? >> i called 911. actually, when i heard the juggle of the handle of the door, of course, that was my first clue and what i did was i immediately took my cell phone, went into the bathroom, locked the door and called 911. >> but was there any follow-up to the breaking and entering after that fact? >> well, the three deputies showed up and -- of course and that's when they determined, you know, actually what the problem s. >> experiencing this all across the state of florida i have talked with law enforcement levels from the street level to

the sheriff across the state of florida and in this theses, they determine nod law has been broken and they take no action. unfortunately, unless the public wakes up and the press continues to do the job that you are doing, they are not going to take action. and these guys are going to continue doing what they're doing. >> suspect the basic implication of the statement that you just made, matthew, the end or the meaningful compromise of property rights in this country, which is the most basic aspect of what this country was founded on? >> you have taken the words right out of my mouths that i have been saying for years now it is a fundamental breakdown in the rights of citizens all across this country. and unfortunately, the leadership from the state and local levels right up to washington, d.c. are ignoring this. this is the something the public needs to pay attention this is not just people in foreclosure this is your neighbor right across the street. this could be any of you watching this program right now. the bank kicking down your door, throwing your property out on the street and nobody is going to do anything about it. >> if you were to look at the political construction, nancy,

through your eyes, having had the terrible experience that you have had and even look at the segment we did a few minutes ago as to the amount of money that funds our senate and our house that comes from the banks and then obviously the benign treatment that the banks get relatives of things like breaking and entering, does surprise you, you see those relationships, do you think they are connected? >> well, i would say that the banks are robbing american people, in plain english. >> you agree with that, matt? >> absolutely. a what happened is the mechanism? >> the dollars are sloshing around among the servicers, among all of the lenders, among all of the institutions across this country right now have emboldened them. unfortunately, our local judges are not as aggressive against these institutions as they should be. unfortunately, attorneys general, legislators, congressmen are just now coming aware of these issues. which all need to stand up and start calling an on all of our elected officials to pay

attention to these crimes and these abuses. >> yeah, listen, nancy, i cannot the thank you enough for coming can on and sharing your story in public the way that you have this afternoon. matt, thank you. >> thank you. >> for articulating what you did. please keep us posted and understand that we here at the dylan ratigan show are firmly focused on the issue of property rights in this country and the government and the large banking institutions, compromising of those property rights for any litany of reasons. it will be interesting to see whether or not weather true conservatives in this country that you believe represent those property rights, tea partiers, actually come forward to oppose not only government but the giant banking institutions that they failed to oppose in financial reform when it comes to the issue of you property rights in this country. still ahead here on the "dr show" with, the daily rapt today, tackling the gop and their hypocrisy, republicans attack the government on the one hand while taking federal money to live on with the other. also, exposing the sacred cow of small business.

turns out many of those that are viewed as small businesses by our politicians, well they are not small at all. and when it comes to actually cultivating new business in this country, our politicians either don't get it or don't care. we will hear from the ranks of the self-employ who had are all too often overlooked by politicians in washington. but first, did you believe everything you read or do you believe everything you read on the internet? turns out a shocking number of american kids do. we will be right back. receiving the bronze star, that was definitely one of my proudest moments. i graduated from west point, then i did a tour of duty in iraq. when i was transitioning from active duty, i went to a military officer hiring conference. it was kind of like speed dating. there were 12 companies that i was pre-matched with, but walmart turned out to be the best for me. sam walton was in the military, and he understood the importance of developing your people. it's an honor to be in a position of leadership at walmart. i'm captain tracey lloyd, and i work at walmart.

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what a novel idea.

welcome back. i have been doing this long enough to learn one simple rule, you don't believe everything you hear, especially from the internet. hell, i don't even believe everything i see. apparently this is a lesson lost to the younger generations in this country. scholastic reporting that 39% of children between the age of 9

and 17 believe everything they read on the internet is true. the study also says a quarter of children believe texting with somebody counts as reading. we only have time for one jaw-dropping factoid at this particular hour. let's clear up a few internet rumors, shall we? we did land on the moon, president obama is not a muslim, tupac is dead, paul mccartney is alive and the taxpayer is making money on the bailout. well, the last one might not be true. it is time now again for man versusity irnet. hit me with your comments on twitter in response to the afghan war earlier, -- something

to share, log on, tweet us your thoughts. find me at dylan ratigan on the twitter. just ahead here, biting the hand that feeds them. conservatives who hate the government but secretly love to get money from the government. ? mary: does this dress make my backside look big? abe: perhaps... save you fifteen percent or more on car insurance?really host: is having a snowball fight with pitching great randy johnson a bad idea? man: yeah, i'm thinking maybe this was a bad idea.

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been a on the "dr show" getting your feedback via twitter. here is an idea how to get money back out of politics -- i think until you break that primary process of its corrupt nature and add the none of the above or against line not forced to get rid of one yee haw to get another, you can toss one until you get a legitimate candidate, like the san francisco chronicle's view on the election out there we are stuck in a race to the bottom, each candidate becomes worse than the next, more corrupt than the next because the system rewards the most corrupt right now as opposed to allowing us as a

-- theoretically free democracy until we can go back to selecting politician, at least for the moment perhaps, work for america and not for themselves and the special interests that fund them. you got nothing share, log on right now, tweet us your thought, find me at dylan ratigan. as we move to our daily rant and today's topic. republican candidates blasting vet same government programs they are benefiting from. sound familiar? our favorite, young turk is here to let them have it. take it away. >> thank you, dylan. we have always had republican hypocrisy, so many of the people already in government, like michele bachmann, for example, takes $250,000 in agricultural subsidies from the government while she rails against the government. but we were told that the new batch of tea party people were pure and they really didn't like government it turns out, unless,

of course, they arether they are taking money from the government. alaska, joe miller, tea party candidate, not only doesn't believe in unemployment insurance, he think it is unconstitutional. unless, of course, it's his wife getting it. kathleen miller apparently collected unemployment insurance after she was working as a part-time clerk for joe miller, her own husband. but that's not all. joe miller also took money from the government in the 1990s when he got as 7,000 in federal farm subsidies and then in 1999, when he got $77,400 in a state loan to buy 1,000 acres in the delta junction in alaska. so when it comes to state subsidies and unemployment insurance the miller family collects, well, they love that. they meant you shouldn't get government handouts. they should. well, how about ron johnson in wisconsin? he says that he is his business in his career never taken anything from the government. here is a quote.

"look, i have been in business and when you subsidize things doesn't work out through the free market system very well" and the that he has never lobbied for some special treatment or for a government payment. of course, except when he did turns out he got $75,000 to build a railway line directly to his factory. that's pretty convenient. that is a federal subsidy and a handout he rather enjoys when it goes straight to his business and turns out he has gotten $5 million in government-issued bonds which have lower interest rates to help build his business in the first place to build the fact troy, hire people, build machines and in the lower interest rates had hundreds of thousands of dollars in savings. so ron johnson does not like it when you get a government handout, but he love it is when he gets a government handout. finally, sharron angle from nevada, she says, oh, my god, i

don't like the unemployment stuff, need to get back to work, lower-paying jobs, the government takeover of health care is terrible, she is definitely against that unless, of course, she is getting government-run health care which, of course, if you are following along, you will realize at this point, of course she is. her and her husband collect money from a federal employee health program and when asked about it their campaign spokesman says ted angle's health insurance plan, the federal employee health program, which also covers sharron is a continuation what he was receiving when he worked for the federal government. in other words, she gets government-run health care and always has. she doesn't seem to object to it doesn't seem to mind. she rather like it is. she want it is for herself, she just doesn't want to you have t one you put all these things together, they don't mean what they say they don't think the

government should be involved. they think government should be -- help them get their agricultural subsidies, help them build their businesses, help them get insurance, when it is time to run campaigns, they think you shouldn't get it and that it is a vehement strategy for them. none of these people mean t ron johnson isn't going to give that money back. sharron angle isn't going to get rid of that health insurance. joe miller's wife suspect going to give back her unemployment insurance it is all one big scam they are running on the american people. >> and if you were to look at it as a political ploy the tea party to me a classic example of all this, nowhere on the -- claim to have been inspired by rick an san teleon the there are of the chicago merc and bank bailouts when it came to financial regulation no where to be found when it came to breaking up the banks, ratings agencies, working for the banks, the leverage in the system, guy down the list, to what do you attribute the effectiveness of the strategy? why do these people politically

think it is a successful concept to basically suck down a bunch of taxpayer noun live their lives while campaigning on how the government is screwing up everybody's lives? >> because they think it works as talking point. and look, they came out theoretically guns blazing on the bailouts, like you said. if they had actually followed you there on that i would have been their biggest fan because i can't stand the bailout. i know you can't stand the bailouts but it turns out they didn't do a damn it thing about it, didn't do anything about t no protests on wall street. no protests on treasury department. i mean they never protested tim geithner. that's unbelievable. they got co-opted by the people who make money by deregulating the banks, people who make money from the health insurance companies, people who make money for further tax cuts, so they are all a part of this same hip cox chris circumstance the coke brothers funding them, sharron angle, joe miller and ron johnson running out campaigns. >> what do you think the chance wells see people turn up when it comes to the issue of property

rights about to explode in this country because the american people are now the owners of a bunch of fraudulent mortgages created by banks? >> you see, if they really cared they can would go after the banks and say, hey, wait a minute, it is fraud. i'm her to protect the american people. they never sayment that you hear their talking points it is never, hey, i'm coming to protect people, oh, no we got to protect you from the government. new york the government needs to be the cops that look out to make sure big business isn't screwing us. doesn't mean the government can do everything right but it does have a role and the role is to be the cop and the regulate they're looks over this and the problem is these campaigns are being funded by the people who want to remove the cops, who want to remove the regulators, so that they can foreclose on your house without anybody checking in to see if they are doing it right or not. >> the last thing, i will wrap it up, much easier to say the government suggestion, get rid of it as opposed to saying we need an effective, reliable government that's kept in discipline by the american people, which is quite honestly

a lot more work and makes for a lousy commercial? >> yeah, you see that is the thing t is not a black and white issue, absurd to say the government can solve all of your issue, of course not. also absurd to say the government k do anything. how about firemen, how about police? et cetera, et cetera. the question is where do you find that right balance? it seems these guys aren't even trying to. >> i agree with that cenk. thanks for the rant, one of the pipes. i kind of knew where you were going, but each time, curious to see how bad it was. the payoff was there it was terrible. thank you very much, cenk. on "hardball," chris matthews looking the those rumors about the obama/clinton ticket in 2012. why is this being discussed before the midterm election has ever happened and is that a path to re-election to them? but first, how not all small businesses are created equal. we will look at which ones get all the help from the government and which ones actually create jobs and how they are not the same ones. oh no, no! i just parked here aond ago!

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job wars today, the plight of real small businesses in this country. they get a ton of lip service from washington, d.c., kind of like republicans or at least some of the republicans who argue against government spending as they take government money. all of our politicians love to talk small businesses but most small businesses don't get much attention or help from the government. according to the small business association, companies with less than 20 employees face regulatory costs 42% higher than larmer firms. their labor costs for employees tend to be 36% more than the average large business. it is not hard to see why more

than half a million of these businesses fail each year. just last week, president obama signed the so-called small business jobs act into law, what is absent from the headlines is the fact that nearly 80% of small businesses are made up of self-employed individuals. nearly all the policy initiatives out of washington with ignore that fact and little if anything to provide incentives for anyone to strike out on their own. joined now by the executive director at the national association of the self-employed. this sort of surprising surprise you? >> no dylan it doesn't. thanks for having us on. we have been working on self-employed issues for over 30 years now and time and time again, we hear the term small business used very liberally here in washington amongst our lawmakers, but what is, you know, not used is when it comes to policy, when you look at the policy we see that our lawmakers are actually legislating small business policy for about 5% of the small business population and the other 95% are left out in the cold when it comes to

good policy. >> a ton of data on this on the kaufman institute and others, refer now to tom parties, a big management consultant, reciting a university of maryland study, and also with the census bureau, said between 1992 and 2005, startups accounted for 100% of net job creation. do you think that our politicians even comprehend what it takes to start a new business to strike out on your own? >> no, i don't. i think the big issue we have is all of our policies focus on already successful businesses, businesses that have made it through the first few years of their lifecycle and simply want to maintain or slightly grow. our policy isn't focused on the entrepreneurs, prospective entrepreneurs where, as you said, all the growth. is we leave them to height fight it out on their own, hoping they will survive and only when they are successful are we going to give them money, sba loans or

lending. only then are we going to give them preferential tax treatment through tax deductions. we have to really shift that and focus on helping businesses at the beginning phase of their startup. >> do we leave new businesses alone or rig the game against them by accepting lobbying money from incumbent businesses who try to alter legislation to prevent themselves from having to compete with any business? >> i think what we do, we go a disservice to small business, especially america's smallest businesses by focusing on bad politics rather than good policy. when we focus on the politics, when we focus on using the term small business and then only legislating for 5% of the small business population, largely because those are the smaller businesses that are able to give to campaigns to dough knit to different candidates during eelection season, we are doing a disservice to our economy at large because there are 23 million self-employed americans contributing close to $1 trillion to our economy every year. >> so, give me an example of some policies you think would

encourage new business development and be beneficial to those self-employed, like yourself? >> i think one of the big issues self-employed people face they don't have a fair and level playing field in the tax code. oftentimes, they are left out in the cold when you see all of these tax deductions. one positive benefit of the small business jobs act is there was one provision in there that would actually provide self-employed americans with a full deduction for their health care costs come tax time on april 15th that is going to be a benefit where they actually see some bottom line savings on their taxes this year, which is -- would be very helpful in this difficult economic time. in addition, tweaking the tax code, making simpler would do quite a bit to help these owners who are responsible for every aspect of their business. as you mentioned, the regulatory cost keeping up with all the regulation government turn out can be overwhelming for a self-employed business owner. really looking at the economic impact of some of the policy and regulations we put out would do a lot to help the smallest businesses i