the place for politics, msnbc. we'll see you right back here tomorrow night on "the ed show." have a good one. hillary for president but how? let's play "hardball." good evening. i'm chris matthews down in washington. leading off tonight, who's pushing this hillary for vice president story? nobody says the president's talked about it, nobody said the people close to the people's president's decisionmaking have either. so, who's launched this trial balloon? second, who is charlie crist to ask a democratic candidate, kendrick meek, to get out of the way for him? that is unless charlie is ready to declare himself a pro-democratic vote in oregon controlling the senate. could this decide who controls the senate? plus, just how conservative has the republican party become? so conservative even ronald reagan might be unacceptable to the current crop of

right-wingers here in washington? we will look at a proposed republican litmus test and what it says about where the party is headed these days. also, should gay-bashing activists be allowed to interrupt the funerals of american service people? we will talk to the father of a fallen soldier who had to put up with the hate protest, and then took the case to the supreme court. wait until you see the rocket todd palin fired off to alaska republican joe miller after miller wouldn't say whether sarah palin is qualified to be president. we will read it all to you in all its glory in the "hardball" sideshow. let's start with this trial balloon and hillary clinton could replace joe biden as vice president. nbc's andrea mitchell has been working this story. andrea, arianna huffington is the co-founder and editor of the huffington post. her new book is called "third world america" and i was at the book party last night. let's start and see if there's a reality to this. let's see how it started. why are we talking about this, andrea mitchel? vice president, i think everybody knows that hillary clinton has wanted to be

president, may well want to be president, but why would she want this route? why would she think she will be given this route? >> i don't know that she thinks she would be given this because i have not heard this from anybody in the obama inner circle but clearly there are people around hillary, if not the secretary of state herself, who would like to see a political role for her in the future who feel that maybe she has completed the tasks that are easily achievable as secretary of state and are looking to see if this is something she could do down the road. so i asked a question, after talking to some people, people who are close to hillary, i asked the question of bob woodward, knowing he had spent so much time inside the obama white house and he gave an interesting open-ended response. >> let's take a look. here is andrea talking to bob woodward about this yesterday. let's listen. >> if obama seeks re-election, as people expect him to, he could be in trouble, like he is now and need this support of the groups that hillary clinton did very well in

the primary elections, bring her on the ticket and make biden secretary of state. they would all go out there and be delighted and happy and it might help obama politically. >> then bob woodward said this on cnn last night when asked if this topic had come up in all of his political conversations for his book. let's listen. >> it's on the table. and some of hillary clinton's advisers see it as a real possibility in 2012. >> let go to arianna huffington. have you anything hard on this, arianna, in huffington post? >> sam steiner, the white house correspondent, has been asking jay carney at joe biden's office, has been asking his sources at the white house and they all kind of guardedly deny it. his conclusion is this was actually a creation of bob woodward. there is no real reporting to

back it up. in fact, if you listen carefully to what bob woodward told andrea, at no point does he claim there was any reporting done, it is pure speculation. and then to john king, he said there were some hillary clinton advisers. this is like as vague a source as you can get, the lowest kind of source on the washington totem pole is an adviser. it could be her hair dresser. and some, nothing but a number. two, three? how many is some? so, that is really the kind of washington rumor that has no backing. >> interesting thing about journalism, arianna and andrea, this trade craft of ours, it's called journalism, the way you get a story going and really an interesting way. let's imagine this. i will just try to use my political sensors here and my knowledge. it seems to me that something like this could develop for a very important reason, this story, a very important reason. if you're close to hillary clinton, not necessarily her, but close to her, you may be

very fearful that at some point in the next couple of weeks there will be a proposal on the table, not this illusory table that was talked about a minute ago, but "the" table at the white house, to promote her to secretary of defense. there may be fears within the clinton crowd if you put her on that shelf, a, she is responsible for an unpopular war, and b, it takes her off all this publicity about maybe being vice president so they want to push back on that and so, when they heard talk of her being secretary of defense, they pushed back and said, what about this other job, vice president? that's my speculation. it's not totally without support. >> well, first of all, there's a second reason not to want to be secretary of defense, because whoever replaces robert gates, if he does leave, as he has said he wants to, is going to be responsible for inflicting the worst budget cuts on the pentagon budget. >> right. >> terribly unpopular, politically and unpopular with the military. >> so, is there a pushback going on from the hillary camp? >> there is definitely a pushback on that. >> -- not to be secretary of

defense? >> without revealing too much trade craft, i was asking the questions about secretary of defense, and what i got back in turn was "that's not real, but down the road, vice president could be real." with my good friend, arianna, i should say that my sources do not include hair dressers. >> arianna, let's look at hillary before we get back to arianna, never know who talks though. here is hillary today, the secretary of state, on this story. here is real pushback. let's watch this one. let's listen. >> i think the vice president is doing a wonderful job. he he is a great friend of mine. we work together closely. he is an expert on foreign policy. he chaired the foreign relations committee in the senate for years, and we have a great relationship. and i have absolutely no interest and no reason for doing anything other than just dismissing these stories and moving on, because there's just no -- there's no time. we have so much to do, and i think to both of us are very

happy doing what we are doing. >> did you want to say something, andrea? because you're on top of this story, you really are. >> well, i was very much struck in watching that, if hillary clinton wanted to shut this down, why did she lead up by praising the vice president's superb foreign policy credentials? the right resume to -- >> exactly what is on the table here, on the table, woodward, but wherever this table is i'm not sure, maybe in woodward's living room, but the fact is this table -- certainly have talked about this. here is what i will throw here, this is your specialty, arianna, political buzz and information, generally making the rounds. clearly, the reason for all this talk is obama is in the pits right now politically. and there is a sense that this election next time around in 2-12, should he run again, will be fought above the mason-dixon line, where hillary clinton could help him in ohio, and with the exception of going down to florida, where she could help him. generally it is going to be a democratic coalition he needs to put together again, including hillary. and he would bolster it perhaps

with her on the ticket. isn't that why we keep hearing this? she will help him in pennsylvania, ohio, new jersey, states were he might have a little bit of problem with white, working class voters. >> west virginia. >> and west virginia. >> well, absolutely, but you know what, chris, in the end, if unemployment continues to hover around double digits, i don't know if anybody can really help the president. also, don't you forget that going back to the summer of 2004, we are hearing rampant speculation about who is going to replace dick cheney on the bush/cheney ticket. remember, giuliani was one of the favorites. and it was the same kind of speculation, like you need somebody to help him. his numbers are down. the same kind of thing. so we have that speculation going on every time a president is in trouble. but, in fact, it never happened. i mean, unless you go back to 1944 and henry wallace. you know, it didn't happen since 1944, except, you know, when rockefeller was replaced by dole, but that is because -- >> that did a lot of good.

>> that did a lot of good. >> that is like throwing -- like throwing furniture and suitcases off an airplane. it was clearly a sign of weakness by jerry ford. guess what, he showed he was weak and also treacherous enough to dump a guy who had joined his ticket. everybody forget this, everybody is transactional these days, they say that these relationships don't matter anymore. but the relationship between the president and the vice president right now is not to be played with. every time we talk about this, we are impugning the advantages of joe biden. believe he is not going to like it, not going to believe the president doesn't want to hurt him. >> i'm certainly not one to impugn joe biden, the most important person since bill clinton on the campaign trail. be campaigner in chief and is so you have the president tied one foreign policy challenges. joe biden has been out there campaigns in places that barack obama can't go. not to say that joe biden isn't a great partner, it is just to

say that is out there in the ether. >> let he say something -- first give more reporting, david axelrod, probably the president's closer adviser in the white house now. "there is absolutely nothing to it the president blessed to have a spectacular vice president and outstanding secretary of state. they are both doing great work. and he wants to keep them on the job." here is something i think we have to dissemble here, hillary clinton, given her age and he having else could quite well run for president in 2016, win or lose next time, she is still eye dial. ideal. in fact, she's in the queue, right behind him to run for the president next time. but not -- it doesn't help her to be carrying the saddle bags of the vice presidency. this idea that the vice presidency is a big leg up to the president -- since when? it worked for one guy in this century, george w. bush. george bush's father rather. generally, it is very hard to get a 12th year in if you are a democrat or a republican administration. after two terms, the public generally wants to switch it out. the only chance you have is running independently from

somewhere else and being a different kind of democrat. you can't do that if you are on the ticket. >> it is very hard for -- it would be very hard for hillary clinton in a second obama term to run against barack obama legacy. >> right. >> she certainly can't challenge -- >> she ends up being an appendage. >> -- in 2012 -- >> so being a vice president is -- certain status certain woman vice president. >> i think a lot of her former staff people. arianna, one last question, right in the buzz zone, right in huffington, right where you're at -- is there buzz from former hillary people who may want her to be vp more than she does? just asking. >> yes, there's buzz, not so much about vp, but there's buzz about -- see, we told you so she would have been better than obama. and there is even -- >> of course. well, that's not news. >> no, no, no, but there is buzz even among people who chose obama over hillary and are now having a little bit of a buyer's remorse. but in the end, if obama was the kind of person who would make

decisions based on what would improve his chances, based on buzz, he would do it. but this is not who he is. he is not john mccain picking sarah palin because it would bring some buzz or because it would improve his chances in some nebulous way. that's not how obama makes decisions. and on the one issue, which is likely to become more of an albatross around the president's neck, afghanistan, joe biden is much more where the public is, the majority against the war than where hillary clinton is. >> that's been proven again in the woodward book. joe biden is with the democratic left, hillary clinton is in the center, if not on the right on that war, right? >> i wouldn't say that left. i would say where the public is. this is way beyond left and right. >> you have major people on the conservative side against the war. >> i agree with that. a lot of business guys in the far right are not interested in this war with -- >> traveling with bill clinton, did you think that hillary clinton's political ambitions --

>> i have never thought her ambitions not to be president, any reason assume they have gone away. the only way to get rid of it, what do you say when you're about to be bury the? >> lobotomy. >> the thing they do when they take your blood out. g. mccarthy said, my hero, a lot easier to run for president than to stop. anyway, thank you, andrea mitchell, thank you, arianna huffington. a lot of us would like to be president. coming up, there is talk in florida the democratic senator kendrick meek may be asked to bail out of the race, uniting the center left behind charlie crist in his fight against marco rubio. what a fascinating race in that growing state. the latest in that bit of intrigue and how it might affect control of the senate next year. plus, some brand-new senate polls in the "hardball" scoreboard tonight. you are watching "hardball," only on msnbc. lord of the carry-on. sovereign of the security line. you never take an upgrade for granted. and you rent from national. because only national lets you choose any car in the aisle.

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shows democratic candidates for congress are losing white voters without college degrees by a whopping 22 points. that's double the margin the democrats lost to working class whites in the congressional elections two years ago, a huge gap that democrats need to turn out quickly, especially when you consider working-class whites make up four out of ten voters in this country. and more bad news for the dems, one core constituency that's been trending solidly democrat may stay on the sidelines this year. i don't believe this number, it's incredible. the latest pew poll found 51% of latino registered voters will go to the polls, about half, compared to 70% of all registered voters who say they are going to vote this year. "hardball" will be right back. r i'm supposed to reach, or... tdd# 1-800-345-2550 it's beach homes or it's starting a vineyard. tdd# 1-800-345-2550 come on! tdd# 1-800-345-2550 just help me figure it out in a practical, tdd# 1-800-345-2550 let's-make-this-happen kind of way. tdd# 1-800-345-2550 a vineyard? give me a break. tdd# 1-800-345-2550 [ male announcer ] looking for real-life answers tdd# 1-800-345-2550 to your retirement questions? tdd# 1-800-345-2550 get real. get started. talk to chuck. tdd# 1-800-345-2550

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welcome back to "hardball." let check the latest polls in the "hardball" scoreboard. we start with nevada, where republican sharron angle has a razor-thin edge right now over harry reid, the senate majority leader, 42-40. connecticut, dick blumenthal widening the gap over

republican linda mcmahon, up 13. in missouri, republican roy blunt up over carnahan. a wide lead. new york, kirsten gillibrand is up 13 points over her relatively unknow opponent dioguardi. chris coons a guy that has gotten a break this year in delaware, a lead over christine o'donnell. coons up 49-30. his lead gets bigger when you include leaners. finally in ohio, republican rob portman leads democrat lee fisher by 19 points. we have to continue to check the "hardball" scoreboard in all the big races every night here on "hardball" leading up to election day. well, republicans need to pick up ten seats to take control of the united states senate and they need to hold florida, keep it republican to get there. that fight heats up with big debate in florida. the latest average by pollster.com shows both marco rubio and kendrick meek trending up and

the man in the middle, charlie crist, the governor trending down slightly. what would happen if crist were to take on marco rubio one-on-one? chuck todd is nbc news political director and chief white house correspondent, and also joanne reed is contributor for the grio.com and columnist for "the miami herald." i got to go to joanne -- what do you know of a possible pullout by the democrat kendrick meek to allow charlie crist to take on rubio one to one and probably have more votes than rubio to start with? >> there is not any talk with within the meek campaign. they are very dug in on this race. what's happening now that you have some on the donor level, crist donors going to meek donors and saying, look, your guy is in third place, our guy is in second place, let's make it a race. rubio is still under 50, but the meek campaign is quite dug n for the last couple of weeks, they have been arguing that crist can't win but the problem is that they are arguing that from third place. that is causing a lot of anxiety, especially among democrats who don't see any

other path to beat marco rubio, besides democrats consolidating behind one or the other, crist or meek. >> all right. joy's latest piece. meek may have drawn the template, back crist support course use to justify abandoning his candidacy. let's take a look right now. chuck, what do you think of this? this is a strange race. most people, if you look at the numbers, say charlie crist could potentially win this race as a moderate to centrist politician. >> yep. >> and perhaps -- but doesn't he if he wants the democrats to sort of get behind him unofficially or officially, doesn't he have to say, i'm going to vote with the democrats in washington? >> i think if somehow he is able to talk meek into dropping out, you would assume that would come at the price. but my reporting is similar to this -- it is crist donors and crist supporters who are going to people close to meek and saying, you know, trying to sound it out, like, what would it take? is he at all open to this? the fact is, the folks very close to meek said he wouldn't be, would have to take a lot of convincing and they want to see the evidence saying, okay, crist

versus rubio in a one-on-one or meek versus rubio in a one-on-one. and so they are going to have to make a really hard sell to meek to do that. and here's one other wrench into this whole plan that, you know, perhaps crist folks or national democrats see as a potential way to basically find a way to take one republican seat away on the senate level and that is the governor's race. look, there are a lot of florida democrats who care a lot more about winning that governor's race than they do this senate race. what does alex sink want? she want kendrick meek in the race because they believe any voter for meek or crist, both together, in an energized kendrick/meek campaign brings on african-americans to a higher level and helps alex sink who is in a very tough race with rick scott. >> chris, if i could say on the flip side, for national democrats, this is a difficult situation. kendrick meek is the only statewide african-american candidate running nationwide.

there is no desire on the part of national democrats to get in between him and this race. any appearance of pressure for him to get out would really renown negatively to the party. you have congressman hastings, members of the black congressional caucus pushing for national support, the president, saying they want to see more visible support. part of the alex sink gubernatorial strategy is to have meek help bring out the black vote. the issue right now, he is underperforming barack obama in terms of the black vote, so he needs more energy there. but that was the plan going forward. >> let's take a look at the ads, how they are going, clips from an american crossroads and crist, across the -- what do you call the road crowd and then crist ad hitting rubio and meek ad hitting crist. it is a three-way. let's listen. >> the choice is clear, marco rubio stood up for taxpayers by saying no to the failed obama stimulus. charlie crist embraced it.

marco rubio opposed obamacare with its $500 billion medicare cuts. charlie crist has flip-flopped. >> work longer, get by on less. that's the marco rubio retirement plan. rubio wants to raise the social security retirement age. that means you will work harder and longer for your money. and rubio wants to cut benefits, it is already tough enough to make ends meet. >> i'm as bad a conservative as you can get. i'm a jeb bush republican. president bush, he is a leader of courage and conviction. i was impressed at governor palin being picked. i watched her speech today. i was very impressed. >> joy, isn't it a little dangerous for crist to call himself a jeb bush republican when jeb bush doesn't like him? >> that is back when he was a potential vice presidential contender with john mccain. i mean, he is really -- it is interesting -- >> jeb might say "excuse me" at some point. >> jeb is attacking him now because crist is attacking rubio on social security. >> let me ask you, how can that republican candidate, i just want to go -- is the republican

party of florida -- is florida that right wing they would actually elect that guy governor on the right wing side? >> that is something that has astounded me from the beginning. florida is a net moderate state. charlie crist sort of fits the vibe for this state, a live and let live state. rick scott is taking advantage of the tide. he is taking advantage of the climate. but even if you look at what he did in the primary, he got about half a million votes. he got less than alex sink got. she got like 600,000 votes and she really didn't have a competitive primary there are a lot of republicans that are really holding this nose on this rick scott thing, 75 times taking the fifth, including on the question, are you the ceo of columbia hca in that medicare fraud case -- it is really ugly, but a lot of republicans just want the governorship because, look, redistricting is coming up, there are important reasons they want that seat, so they are holding their nose and going with scott. >> boy, amazing what you can do when you hold your nose. thank you, chuck todd. give me a thought on that race, do you think that guy can win the republican governor with all the nose-holding? >> he is on the air with 4,000

points of tv ads a week now. that is four times what is normally considered a legitimate statewide tv buy. he is outspending her three and four to one. so you sit there and it is -- you got to remember with florida, they have short memories because there are so many new residents in the state all the time. and so all of this old stuff with rick scott, it's gonna take a big education campaign. now, alex sink is up with a pretty tough -- i think it is going to be a pretty effective ad talking about this issue with rick scott, but i tell you, she has got a huge financial problem. >> i hope the voters get their smell-o-meters out. thank you, chuck todd. great to meet you, joy-ann reid. we will have you back. up next, todd palin fires back, a great intramural fight, a little snow fight in alaska, the republican candidate for senate up there couldn't quite bring himself to endorse sarah palin, mentally or physically or whatever -- emotionally qualified to be president. her husband took offense, no surprise there, catch up on that little spat. you are watching "hardball," only on msnbc. interesting grooming.

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back to "hardball" now. the side show. first, tempest in a tea party? remember this refusal to answer out of joe miller last month? >> do you think that sarah palin is qualified to be president and would you like to see her run? >> you know, i'm running a u.s. senate race in the state of alaska. that is what i'm focused on. i have been asked about various candidates throughout the country during this race. that's not my role to comment on those candidacies. >> blah, blah, blah. anyway, the palins who, after all, made joe miller were none too pleased with that nonanswer. the alaska blog mud flats posted an e-mail reaction from todd palin himself, cement last month to

sarah pack, palins' attorney and joe miller himself. here it is, "sarah put his blank on the line for joe and he can't answer a simple question. is sarah palin qualified to be president? joe, please explain how this endorsement stuff works. is it to be completely one sided? sarah spent all morning working on a facebook post for joe. she won't use it, not now. put yourself in her shoes, joe, for one day. that is a rare look at how the palins play politics and i think further real confirmation that sarah palin is at least considering seriously making a run for president. she is touchy about this stuff. next, steel trapped. at least four republican candidates have come out and questioned minimum wage. the bigger question, the chairman of the republican national committee, michael steele, doesn't know what the minimum wage is. here he is with lawrence o'donnell last night. >> what is the minimum wage, michael? >> you really like the minimum wage, don't you? i want to talk about a lot more things besides one issue. whether the minimum wage is $7, $10 or

whatever it happens to be in whatever part of the country you live in, the fact is, if you don't have a job that number is irrelevant until you get one. >> the minimum wage is not $7 or $10. let's move on to jobs. you have said, michael -- >> that will be your headline. that will be your headline, lawrence. i don't know the minimum wage. >> certainly ours tonight, definitely the last headline that republicans need going into november. the last item for those of you who believe in metaphors. the presidential seal fell off the lectern last night at the fortune most powerful women's summit. look what happened. >> especially in fields like science, technology, engineering and math. we can not sustain -- [ thump ] oops. was that my -- oh, goodness. that's all right. but i'm sure there's somebody back there that's really nervous right now. don't you think? they are sweating bullets back there now.

>> you saw it, the president working without a teleprompter. he should do it more often. tonight's big number, when it comes to passing legislation, both houses of congress are separate but not equal. since this congress was sworn in, how many bills passed the house of representatives but get stalled and killed in the senate? 420 bills died in the senate, testament to the power of the filibuster, 420 bills held up in the senate this congress passed the house, tonight's big, bad number. up next, this year, republicans bounced lisa murkowski and bob bennett for not being conservative enough. by that standard, some of the giants of the modern republican party would fall the conservative litmus test.

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hello, here's what's happening. a day of wild weather in northern arizona. violent storms spawned at least for tornadoes. they damaged dozens of homes. no one was injured. in puerto rico, the largest investigation into police corruption in fbi history netted 129 police and law enforcement officials on drug trafficking charges. fbi director robert mueller is calling on lawmakers to revive surveillance laws. at the white house, president obama awarded the medal of honor to robert miller killed in afghanistan in '08. israel's prime minister is reportedly finding little support in parliament for extending a freeze on new settlement construction. those are the main sticking point in middle east peace negotiations. and an investigation into that toxic spill as they do

whatever it takes to keep it from reaching the danube river. back to "hardball. ." we are back. after tea party voters ousted, i love that word, long-time republican senators like utah's bob bennett and alaska's lisa murkowski, "washington post" columnist dana milbank crunched numbers for the "washington post" to see how their conservative credentials stack up against republican leaders of the past. it turns out based on their actual voter records, the american conservative union gave murkowski 70% rating and bennett, 84%. bob dole's lifetime rating 82, same for howard baker, what about jerry ford who became the president, 67%. does the republican party have a long-term problem if they keep narrowing the gauge of what's acceptable as a conservative in the short term? "time" magazine's mark halpern, a genius, knows everything about

politics and syndicated radio talk show, michael spirkan, the burbs called, michael, you have been on this since i have known you, a long time, the republican party to be a national party, really to be a governing party if that's what they want, have got to widen their track to include people center right, not just right. >> they are not listening to me. the way i try to lay it out now in orson welles' term there is a planet gop right now the subject of a battle, planet g-o-p and the rhinos, republicans in name only and they are on the run from the ipos who are electable in primary only. so christine o'donnell is my ipo in chief because i don't think she can ever win a general election in delaware and i will put governor palin into the mix. i think she is eminently able to be nominated by the republican a bitter could never win a general election for the presidency. but chris you can the people who are the ipos they like it this way. they are just happy to be rid of the ripe knows and pragmatism is a dirty word. >> well, you know, i know about

the left better than the right and there's just as much crap like that on the left. it was called ndc, november doesn't count, which is exactly like these ipos. as long as you win the primary we don't care who wins the general. we want to control the left. >> how can you do that ipo and rhino thing without claymation? seems to me -- >> is it true that people in delaware, for example, are happy they knocked off mike castle and are stuck with christine o'donnell? >> there are some people but the republicans will be able to finesse through november there is agreement about beating obama, getting control of congress back. i think everybody focused on how is the president going to react to the midterms. i think the republican party is in danger, maybe more, and this is a problem they have to solve. >> what happens when the eight guys win, the tea party senate nominees, i think a lot of these people could win. joe miller certainly win a general if he gets there he can

and sharron angle is a point we saw tonight. ken buck pretty well positioned ahead of michael bennet in colorado. mike lee is going to win in utah. rand paul is ahead out there in kentucky job. raese winning right now in west virginia. marco rubio is winning in florida. christine o'donnell is losing badly right now but that is a pretty good track record among the right wing there. >> a good chance to come to washington, the question, what do they want to do? do they want to get things done, solve the nation's problems or do they want to keep the republican party being a minority party and out of the white house? it is going to be up to mitch mcconnell, john boehner and the 2012 presidential candidates to say to that group and republicans at large, okay, did a good job, put down some markers, how do we grow the party, move them more towards the center without sacrificing our principles? it can be done but takes the leadership that no republican has -- >> here is the question, michael. if the purpose of the republican party, win seven of eight right wingers win, tea partiers, not all right winger, people of the right, these people come in and want to reduce the deficit, that is a popular idea, all they want to do is cut taxes, that is a popular idea.

does that hurt the republican party, to be blunt? >> they can't get it done on their own, conventional wisdom is they will control the house, not going to control the senate, certainly not going to control the presidency. the folks at the pew research outfit just two weeks ago polled on the question of whether compromise was a virtue. >> i saw. >> two to one margin, chris, republicans said absolutely not, we would rather have elected officials who stand their ground. so those that you identify ready now are going to go down to washington and be responsive to individuals who don't want them to give an inch. what are we headed for? i think we are headed for gridlock from 2010 through 2012. >> according to that poll, the poll you mentioned says people want gridlock. here is the problem for the democrats. suppose the house gets republican, everybody telling me now it is going to go republican if that happens, they pass bills like this -- continue to tax cut for everybody, including the top two 2%. goes the senate, slowed down there, nothing happens, two to

one, conferences, somewhere in the middle, the president signs it. how does that hurt the republican party? they have moved the whole country a bit to the right on taxes? >> on taxes, i don't think it will hurt them, on deficit reduction, for instance it may well hurt them. >> come in with a budget that has a lower deficit that the senate -- they compromise, the president agrees to it but they have moved the country to the right. >> because deficit or meaningful deficit reduction doesn't include cutting discretionary program. they will have to say serious things about social security, medicare, medicaid. >> the president is going to be for it, too. >> the long run, maybe not the short run but got to look at it in the long run. talk about turkey, seems to me all this is basically a game of chicken. at some point, it is going to happen. the question put to joe miller up in alaska the other day was by chris wallace -- is sarah palin qualified to be president? at some point out in the public light, romney is going to have to answer that question. huckabee has to answer that question. mitch daniels has to answer that question. chris christie in new jersey has to answer that question, tom corbin, pennsylvania, all have to answer that question. no matter how many jobs they got and how many office these won,

they have to answer the question "is sarah palin presidential material." when they whimper out or say got to be kidding me under your breath they lose the tea party crowd. is that when civil war in the republican party occurs, michael? >> yes, and i think it's already under watch and i sense no compromise from those who are on the right who call me every day, e-mail me every day, the sort of folks how saw at that mike castle town hall meeting, the woman who shouted out "i want my country back" that not going to allow any compromise whatsoever. >> michael, my buddy in phillies. the supreme court heard arguments today in the case of the fringe church group that protests disgustingly at funerals of american service people. the group says military deaths are god's judgment -- punishment, rather, for country for tolerating gay rights. we are going to talk to the father of a fallen soldier who endured these disgusting protests at his son's funeral. this is not a hard one to take sides on. as my hero churchill said, "it is not hard to decide between the fire brigade and the fire."

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welcome back to "hardball." today, the united states supreme court heard arguments in the case of snyder versus phelps, a case that will test the limits of first amendment rights. at issue, does an anti-gay church group have the right to

protest at funerals of slain military men and women? marine lance corporal michael snyder, matthew snyder was killed while serving his country in iraq. at the burial ceremony at the church, protesters held signs like these, they are despicable. the group says the deaths of u.s. soldiers in iraq and afghanistan is god's punishment for america's tolerance of homosexuality. matthew's father, albert snyder, took the protestors to court, he won, then a federal appeals court dismissed the case on first amendment grounds. today, the supreme court heard it. steve six is the kansas attorney general general. mr. snyder, thank you so much for joining us. >> thank you. >> what is your case as an american about the case that you have made that nobody should be allowed to go to the serviceman's funeral or just use it this way and abuse it?

>> basically that's what it is, chris. i feel like in many military families that are along with me do, they target funerals to get publicity for it. >> steve they just pick out anybody at random, basically and they say this person, to go after some tolerance of gay rights somewhere. it's a generalized assault but they pick out one person to do it to. >> they pick out the ones to get the most reaction. they were working with gays and lesbians, they went to matthew shepard's thing in wyoming and started the lose the speed. >> no. they get more firepower not going after a gay person but another person, they pick somebody at random, right? >> now the military funerals with a service member who's given the ultimate sacrifice, that is where you get a big reaction yaen they're there. al snyder is a private person. >> i'm not a lawyer. i want to ask you. suppose you go to a funeral and yell on sceneties from across if

street, is that protected? is that protected? >> then you start to get into in this case it was a tort claim brought against the direct targets putt on the family and targeting them in their grief and the funeral. if you showed up at random funeral and yell things across the street, it would depend on the facts but just -- >> you would be allowed to do that? >> sure. >> that's not disturbing the peace? >> then it would get into a factual analysis to sue that person for invasion of privacy or you know -- >> why can't you win the case saying these guys are interrupting a private funeral with the distractions and it's my private affair? >> they're claiming it's free speech. >> i mean, as long as it has a political tag to it, it's free speech. >> you can do that with anything, chris. you can tag a political statement to anything you say. and then call it free speech. >> have you ever talked to this character, this reverend --

>> no. >> i don't know the religion he represents. >> between you and i, i don't even think they're a church. they're a group of maybe 60 people right now and they're representing -- >> look at the picture here. you have gone through the hell, you, sir, especially. thank you for your service. >> thank you. >> look at the kids! these kids, these people bring their kids to do this stuff! the signs, they're going to grow up an enremember that -- see the pictures. how did my parents drag me. look at the grown-ups. all crazy people? xwho are they? >> their church is less than a mile from my office and now exporting to maryland. but yeah. the tragedy -- >> look at the little kid there. >> look at the sign. that breaks your heart. >> what are they? are they morons? i mean, where does this stuff come from? >> you know, they claim it's very fundamentally bible based old testament-type view. >> i'm talking about basic human

reveren reverence. does that overwhelm any american that patriotic feeling? >> you know? >> they claim -- i'm sure they claim to be on the right and patriotic in some weird way but how do they live with this? >> i can't analyze that. i can tell you that the constitutional protection to be left alone in this country's pretty strong and the snyders didn't ask for this. >> let me ask the you the real question. can the supreme court led by scalia and roberts find a way to carve out with areas of respect? you should get a respect from the government and the people. if you're having a funeral, any funeral, they can't come up with noise-making signs and screaming stuff? >> i think they can. i think they can, chris. i think we have to. i hear from military men and women over in afghanistan that have told me, they're not going to make their decision on reenlistment until a decision is made on this because they're not going to fight for 18 hours a day in the field, six hours off

and worry about whether or not their families are -- >> it's a good, american fight. thank you. when we return, i'm going to have thoughts for hillary clinton for vice president rumors. ♪ when it's planes in the sky ♪ ♪ for a chain of supply, that's logistics ♪ ♪ when the parts for the line ♪ ♪ come precisely on time ♪ that's logistics ♪ ♪ a continuous link, that is always in sync ♪

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let me finish tonight with a story out there about hillary clinton for vice president. well, the way to look at this is politically. if hillary clinton wants to be president in an active sense, she wants to make the right moves to get there, all the right moves, a number of options apply. one, she stays where she is and plays a big role in the midwest history and nobel prize territory. if a deal is cut involving netanyahu and abbas, the u.s. secretary of state, especially one who was senator from new york, will get and deserve a huge share of the political credit. okay. that's one route. she achieves victory at secretary of state, stays through the presidential term and returns to private life perhaps heading up a university and running for president from there. it worked for ike. another route, becomes secretary of defense, stays there through 2012 or 2013 and runs for president from that position having headed up the u.s. military, proven for commander in chief. a presidential campaign with that behind her would be totally

different than the one she ran in 2007-2008. option three and four, president obama names her as a running mate in 2012. the ticket wins or loses. if it wins, she gets the task of carrying on obama-style democratic rule for 12 consecutive rules. a tough road to hoe and run as a chosen successor to obama, taking with it all the baggage of eight years in office. option four, the obama-clinton ticket loses and in this case a free hand to run in 2016. the problem is she would be forced to run against an incumbent republican president. it's fascinating, isn't it? every one of the four options is in plain sight. we can imagine her staying on winning a mideast peace, defense chief, we can certainly imagine all of us accepting the runs mate option. i'm betting on option one. i have never seen a better u.s. team working for the middle east peace and determined to take it seriously. as hard as it is to do, i'd place my bet on her taking the hard, historic road to the white