desperate for dollars. >> i agree. the book, "pinstripe patronage." that does it for us. up next on msnbc, chris matthews. hilary in the spotlight, let's play "hardball." good evening, i'm chris matthews, up in boston for the massachusetts women's political caucus. leading off, eyes on the prize. secretary of state hillary clinton is coming to the political spotlight again, will she be on the ticket in 2012? what do her supporters want for her and how do they want her to get it? our top story tonight. plus, take me home, they're not really from west virginia, they just play them on tv. remember the ad that the republicans are running against governor joe mansion in west virginia? >> boem is messing things up.

>> stimulus, obama care. >> and joe mansion supported it all. >> joe's not bad as governor sh but when he's with obama -- >> he turns into washington joe. >> it turns out those guys were actors, they are actors who answered a casting call up in philadelphia for i love this, the hick-y, blue collar look. a an ad that talks that way about west virginians backfire? and sticking with the they'll, remember with the old margarine ad, it's not nice to fool mother nature. well it's not nice to cross mama grizzly. why some republicans are staying away from palin. and the tea party's republican purge is not over. now they're targeting moderates. i shouldn't call them moderates, some of them are. anybody who is not extremely conservative. is no republican senator conservative enough for the tea party? let me finish tonight by saying what no one has said, no one has had the guts to say

about barack obama. all of that is ahead. but first the latest polls around the country. for that, we check the "hardball" scoreboard. and a new poll from florida shows republican marco rubio sitting pretty. he's got a 15-point lead over charlie crist. the governor now, 42, 27. next, new hampshire, the senate race may be tightening up. the republican has a five-point lead over the democrat. hodes is coming up. her lead was 14 in the same poll. just two weeks ago. and in ohio, republican and the governor race, it's the republican leading the incumbent governor very close to the margin of error and in the new york governor's race, democrat cuomo maintaining his double-digit lead over republican carl paladino. cuomo is up 18 in the new, much-respected quinnipiac poll. we'll continue to check the

scoreboard for all the races coming up. now to hillary clinton and her prospects for running for president in 2016. howard fineman is an msnbc political analyst and senior editor now for the "huffington post." and lady lynn forester de rot rothschild was a big supporter in 2008. out of nowhere has come this spotlight on hillary clinton, the secretary of state. you're a big hillary sorupporte. what would you like to see happen right now to sort of forge suort for hillary clinton in the long run for president when the time comes? >> well, first of all, i think all this talk about vice president is a little bit premature. and sort of silly season talk. because the section two of the 25th amendment makes it very difficult to replace a vice president. so i think that talk should be shelved, if president obama thinks he needs her in 2012,

that is one thing. what we know about hillary clinton is she works hard and she does her job for the american people. and she does did without her personal agenda. she is always concerned about what is in the best interests of the nation. so i don't believe that she is thinking about this. she is probably laughing it off right now. and i really don't actually think we should be talking about it. because it's not really fair to joe biden. >> okay, well let's go to howard. how do you see this -- i was amazed, i know lynn was going to be aggressive here. but talk about dumping the guy? i think a lot of the discussion, because of the woodward comments is about what would happen to the ticket in 2012. let's go to that. is that something that's getting serious buzz outside the clinton people? or is it also being considered somewhere near the president? >> i don't think it's being considered near the president. because i think joe biden, based on the calls i made this afternoon in and around the administration -- barack obama is pretty solid with joe biden. joe biden is out there

campaigning really hard. and some biden supporters will tell you it's all well and good that hillary has terrific numbers right now. because she's secretary of state, which is a nice, positive job trying to bring world peace and not dealing with unemployment and the health care bill and all the other difficult political issues that have hurt barack obama and joe biden's standing in the country. i don't, i don't think it's a serious thing right now. now hillary wanting to be president of the united states? there's no doubt about it. james carville, there's gnome much closer to the clintons than james carville. told me of course hillary would probably like to run again, would like to lead the country, but not through the vice presidential route, unless barack obama asks her to. and i think if you think of the relationship between barack obama and the clintons, it's not likely, especially since he, obama, still has a good relationship with joe biden. >> let's all take a look at this comment by the secretary of state hillary clinton. this is what she said to ann curry of nbc a year ago, pretty

strong language. let's listen to it. >> i can't help but think nine months into this administration, having campaigned so fiercely to be president yourself, that there can't be moments for you, where you wish you could make the decisions yourself. >> i have to tell you, it never crosses my mind. >> never? >> no, not at all. i am part of the team that makes the decisions. >> will you ever run for president again, yes or no? >> no. >> no? >> no. i mean this is -- this is a great job. it is a 24/7 job. and i'm looking forward to retirement at some point. >> lynn, it never crosses her mind. maybe we're just politically crazy. because it crosses our minds. do you think -- everybody talks like the secretary does. i'm not going to hold that against her to say she's not thinking about it. let's look at this, howard, i want you to join in as an objective observer. i know lynn is with the secretary of state. fair enough. let's look at some interesting

questions. is it smarter, because i said last night i thought it was, for her to stay where she is as secretary of state, achieve perhaps history in the middle east peace talks, leave in a couple of years, maybe a year or two, become president of a big university like eisenhower did, columbia and come off independently. not having to carry the baggage of everything that goes wrong in the next four years or six years. don't have to carry all the baggage of obama, come in clean if somewhere independently having served with credibility. and in fact great credibility as secretary of state. lynn, wouldn't that be a smarter move than basically hooking her wagon to obama? any time in the next six years. >> chris, you are constructing this in a way that is not true to her character. she is not sitting there and conniving and thinking. >> i'm asking you what you think would be the smarter move? >> i think what the smarter move for hillary clinton is to do her job. to -- >> stay the secretary of state? >> do her job. day in and day out.

>> okay. >> and that will in the long run, put her in her place in history. the democratic party decided when they nominated barack obama, that they wanted him and not her as president. she has accepted that. and she is doing her job in his administration. and that's a wonderful character trait. she's not the kind of calculating animal that you're trying to portray. >> i'm asking you as a supporter, would you like to see her president some day? >> i would love to see her president. >> what would be the most logical path for her to get that prize, to achieve the presidency? would it be as staying where she is as secretary of state, and then leaving? or joining the obama ticket? what would be the bet irway to get to the presidency? you're a political person. >> i would love to see her be president one day. she has to follow her own heart, her own stinin her job. >> howar i think you know

successful and v president. it'ster comen a an dependent. ward, it looks innas earumybody. she g t p own right

and younger than rona woodward most respected rorter in the me oso hill th, lynn?

>> well i don't see any reason why hillary clinton would want to be, and i certainly don't think she should be number two. i think she should be number one. but i know that she is not planning and scheming for that right now. and she won't. she will do her job. she's working her tail off. she's going around the world. inspiring girls like she inspired them here. but she's out of the game here and she really is. it's hard to accept it. but unfortunately for america, she -- i don't think will ever be president. >> thank you. i'm not sure you're right. thank you, lady rothchild. and howard, thank you, buddy. coming back, we're going to remember this tough ad the republicans are running against west virginia senate candidate, joe mansion. if you're going to have people, make sure they're the real thing. let's watch. >> obama's messing things up. >> spending money we don't have.

stimulus, obama care? >> and joe mansion supported it all. >> joe's not bad as governor sh but when he's with obama -- >> he turns into washington joe. gs actlly ought to be wearing phillys' caps. it was filmed up in philly, by local actors, who responded to a casting call up there looking for quote, hick-y blue collar looks. we'll is it a strategist next on "hardball."

senate candidate, jack conway who is running against rand paul. we'll be right back. nk

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welcome back to "hardball." remember this anti-manchin ad

from the nrcsc, the republican campaign committee in the senate races. the one with the working-class guy sitting around a diner. it seems like it's down in west virginia somewhere. let's listen. >> obama's messing things up. >> spending money we don't have. >> yeah. >> stimulus, obama care? >> and joe manchin supported it all. >> well apparently that was filmed somewhere in south philly. it turns out those weren't frustrated west virginia guys, they were actors. here's part of the casting call for the commercial that came out. quote, we're going for a hicky, blue collar look. think coal miner trucker looks, clothing suggestions, jeans, work boots, flannel shirt, john deere hats, governor joe manchin running for the senate took offense early today. let's listen to that. >> running for a hicky blue collar look. i don't know where they're coming off of calling hicky blue

collar look. first of all, the coal miners who provide the energy that all of us in this nation enjoy and the truck drivers that deliver the gooed and the energy that depend upon are some of the most god-fearing family-loving people. you've been here, andrea, and you know how strong these people, how good they are but if my opponent and his friends feel that way about it, then shame on him. >> a spokesman for the national nscr said no one with the nrsc had anything to do with the language used in the casting call. and the ad has been pulled. this could be a turn-around moment for manchin, who trails the republican by six points? according to pollster.com. let's go to the strategist, steve mcmahon, a democratic strategist and don feary is a republican strategist. i've got to go to john. this is more crocodile tears than i've ever seen in politics. what's wrong with guys wearing cat hats and john deere.

what's wrong with them talking with a little bit of accent. they weren't all sweaty or dirty. they weren't toothless guys out of "deliverance." what's the knock? >> i'm shorked that in advertising you would hire actors to play somebody else. i have a question for you, do you think all the guys in the erectile dysfunction ads have erectile dysfunction? no, they don't. people hire actors for advertising. no big shock. and the other thing about the ad that's important is john race is running against barack obama. i think that's why he's going to win this election. because the people in west virginia didn't like him in the primaries they didn't like him in the general election. and they're not going to like him now. >> technical point, if there's so many people down in west virginia that look like these guys supposedly and don't like obama, why didn't they just go down there and interview these guys? why didn't they just go look for those three guys sitting in a local dinette having coffee

together and say what do you think of obama? why didn't they just do that? >> because they subcontracted it out to the wrong people, that's why. >> okay. here you go, steve. i don't know how -- indignant you're going to be. but i'm going to give it to you. >> chris, this is a little bit like tea-ball. i got to tell you, you know, the job of political advertising seriously is to be relevant, credible and persuasive. and when you put out a memo like this to cast people where you make fun of the very state that you're trying to persuade voters in and when you hire actors from philadelphia to appear in an ad in west virginia, you undermine every premise of political advertising. and then when the rnc or the rscc that puts out memo saying no one associated with the rscs had anything to do with this. that's not true. because they were hired to make fun of west virginia voters and to try to win this election. >> so, steve you -- >> john, your turn, john. i don't think it made fun of

those guys at all. >> i don't think it does. and actually, i think a lot of people in pennsylvania feel the same way that a lot of people in west virginia do. which is why toomey is doing so well against joe sestak. the people in pennsylvania and west virginia don't like obama care and they're going to vote against him in this election. >> let's go to ohio. john casey, let's hear to the ad for governor. >> none ted strickland wants us to keep him in his job. he didn't keep us in our jobs. re-elect stead strickland? are you kidding me? >> there we go again. the front page of the "toledo blade" has the headline, democrats in ohio rip kasich. steve, your turn first. are you going to go after that ad, too? what's wrong with an ad that hires actors? >> it's the same thing.

if you're trying to represent yourself as somebody who represents the blue collar, you ought be able to find at least one person from that community, from that socioeconomic group who will appear in your ad and say the kinds of things about you or your opponent that you'd like to have said. and these republicans in these campaigns, don't even know enough blue collar people to go on -- when we do ads for democrats, we have people lined up who want to appear in them, real people. >> so, steve, you've never hired an actor for any of your ads? >> we almost, john, we almost never hire actors for our ads, we get real people and they line up. because they all want -- >> the fact of the matter about john kasich, he's a blue collar guy. >> why doesn't he have any blue collar people? >> and that's why he's going to win the election. john kasich has good vision for the country. >> newt gingrich wants republicans to frame the choice this way, the party of food stamps versus the party of paychecks. here's what he wrote in a memo to his fellow republicans. which future do you want, more

food stamps or more paychecks? this is the choice we want to drive home again and again for voters from now until election day. house speaker nancy pelosi pushed back. let's listen to her reaction to that. food stamp party claim. go ahead. >> i think this is a very, very dangerous terrain. i think there's something, some subliminal message that is being sent out there. about us and them. >> there's nancy pelosi, she was caught working her daytime factory job there, just kidding. steve, this reminds me of the old days of ronald reagan talking about, here's an excerpt of how he portrayed working people, were quote, rightly outraged when they waited in grocery lines, while a strapping young buck ahead of them bought t-bone steaks with food stamps and here's a "new york times" headline from that era. welfare queen. >> we now how reagan railed

against the young buck and food stamps and how he ran against welfare queens. is this newt going back into the old trough, going to the get the working middle class against the poor people? >> yes, unfortunately it is. and these are code words, the kind of words that frankly the republican party or most mainstream republicans have left behind. you know, speaker gingrich is a very thoughtful person. but he is very, very quick to suggest race as a factor. you remember he attacked sonia sotomayor and he suggested that race -- he jumped on the recent department of agriculture woman whose name i can't come up with right at this moment. he's very quick to pull the race card and play the race card. and if you want to be the president of the united states, you need to be a lot more careful than newt gingrich is being right now. >> what do you make of the food stamp code language? >> one observation, is that newt gingrich is not running for office, is not on the ballot

anywhere. >> he's running for president. >> not this time around. >> i'm not sure why this is such a big deal. the fact of the matter is that i think what newt is trying to say, is that the republicans are the party of economic growth. democrats are the party of the welfare state. i think that that's what he's trying to say in his typical fashion. which is always going to be controversial, because that's how newt gets press. >> you don't think it has a racial tag to it? >> i don't. >> how about when reagan talked about the young buck waiting in line for his food stamps. you don't think that had a little bit of a suggestion? not just about class, but ethnicity and race? don't you think newt is playing the same card again? >> let me tell you what i think. i think the fact of the matter is that people are hurting out there. there are more people now on food stamps than ever before. this is a bad time for this country. and by saying that people do want a paycheck and don't want to go on welfare, i think that that's not a racial thing. i think that that's a reality,

that people do want a job. >> let me tell you something, you ought to know this. nobody wants to go on food stamps. you go on them because they're poor. and you take food stamps because you want to feed your family. there's nothing funny about it. it's not to be made in tv ads, that's wrong. it's not the first time that newt has played this game. >> newt's on the ballot. the fact of the matter is that people are hurting, but they do want jobs. >> john, i depend on you to keep him off the ballot. i don't mind the actors. up next, white house senior adviser david axelrod is sizing up the race. i think so, that's newt. no, it's not, it's mitt. stick around for the "sideshow." l of the important information was gathered together in one place. [ printer whirs ] done.

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back to "hardball," now to the "sideshow." first, david axelrod is out there sizing up the 2012 republican field already. he did it last night on "letterman." let's listen. >> donald trump, we know that's a goof. chris christie. jeb bush, is he in or out? >> i've heard the name, people don't feel he's going to go. and the trump thing -- >> it's silly. >> it requires a big ego to run for president and -- >> mike huckabee. >> one of the interesting things is a lot of the names you're rolling off and a lot of the names all work for fox news, so if they all run for president. there are gotting to a lot of openings. >> mitt romney. >> he started off as kind of a moderate republican in massachusetts. passed the health care plan very much like the president. health care plan. i always thought if he had just stuck to who he was, he would be a far more formidable candidate. >> everybody's favorite, sarah palin. is she going to run? >> i have a soft spot because i

was at the vice presidential debate and she winked at me. >> well don't ever think that people like david axelrod aren't eating this stuff for breakfast every day. they're tracking their opponents constantly. it looks like they're worried about mitt romney. next up, what's the frequency, kenneth? the anti-abortion group, americans united for life roll out a radio ad targeting john salazar, that was their intention. >> congressman ken salazar voted for taxpayer-funded abortions in nancy pelosii health care bill. he says he shares our values. the life of an innocent child may not matter to congressman ken salazar, but here in colorado, life counts. ken salazar betrayed our trust. >> there is no ken salazar congressman. that poor actor was reading the wrong name. ken salazar was mentioned five times in the ad by the actor. ken salazar is a former colorado

senator and brother of the ad's intended target, congressman john salazar. they should get their facts straight. according to a "u.s.a. today" review, voters this year are taking the early bird mantra to heart. compared to the 2006 mid terms, the number of early voters in 2010 primaries has increased 50%. a trend that could reshape how campaigns operate. a 50% increase in early primary voting. that looks good for republicans, i think. tonight's big number. up next, alaska senate campaign joe miller gets another crack at the, is sarah palin actually qualified to be president question. once again, he didn't answer. meanwhile, both meg whitman and carly fiorina are steering clear of palin when she comes to california. what does it say about her and whether people want to be identified with her in close general elections. and whether they really think she is presidential material. you're watching "hardball," only on msnbc. with good nutrition,

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i'm jackie deangelis with your market wrap. a stronger dollar keeping pressure on the market. the dow jones industrial average slipping 19, the s&p two points lower and the nasdaq adding three points. investors not making big moves with earnings and the monthly jobs report around the corner. but the dollar bounced back a bit. investors were inching away from wednesday's concerns about the housing changes by the fed. the aluminium giant alcoa delivered better-than-expected revenue. hotel stocks feeling heat from an earnings miss by marriott. analysts are predegting slow but steady recovery in the sector. back-to-school shopping was robust in september and most

retailers ended the session with big gains. that's it from cnbc, first in business worldwide. now back to "hardball." do you think that sarah palin is qualified to be president? and would you like to see her run? >> you know, i'm running a u.s. senate race right now in the state of alaska, that's what i'm focused on. i've been asked about various candidates throughout the country during this race. that's not my role to comment on those candidacies. >> that's not my role. welcome back to "hardball" that was alaska senate candidate, joe miller a couple of weeks ago on fox news sunday. miller's nonanswer on whether sarah palin is qualified to be president, made todd palin fire off a tough email to miller. yesterday on fox, miller was given a second chance. >> are you willing to say now whether you think sarah palin is qualified to be president?

>> you know, i'll tell you the exact same thing i said this last week when i was in d.c. and that is she, if she puts her name in the hat, and that's totally up to her. any one of this could make a far better presidential candidate than the one right now in the oval office. >> i wanted to give you a chance to say yes or no, and it sounds like you're not goings to say yes or no. >> let me make this unequivocal. she's done phenomenal things for this country. she's elevated the debate critical to our race and we know what qualified means, don't we? we know we have a constitutional requirement for somebody that's going to run for president, of course she's qualified. >> well if he can't answer megan kelly's question, which was a good question, it's the same question he continues not to answer. does it mean sarah palin has a big problem for her political plans? he won't answer a simple question. has she got the qualifications to be president. and everybody knows what she meant and what chris wallace meant by that question.

john holland covers politics for "new york" magazine. and nora o'donnell. a new facet of your professional career, your bestselling book, "baby love." congratulations. i want everybody to know you have legions of fans out there, that you've got a bestselling book on the market which is zooming. i want to start with john on this, this is strange to have somebody as popular within the republican party, she has a 76% approval level, way above everybody else. but ofry time you ask a sane candidate, do you think she's got the stuff to be president of the united states, they dodge. >> yeah, chris. i mean i think it's perfectly reflective of her broader problem, which is that she is very popular, quite popular in the republican party. but she is not that popular in the broader electorate. we've seen numbers from various polls that put her approval in the mid 20s. with the broader electorate. >> but john, that's not the

question these guys, these anchor people are asking. they're asking, is she qualified. they're afraid to say she's got the basic mental, emotional, whatever you want to call it, preparation, reading habits to be president of the united states. that's what they're dodging. not whether they like her or not. but whether they think she's presidential material. isn't that what they're dodging? >> clearly that's what they're dodging. i think for a lot of those people, when they're asked that question, i think what they must be thinking is that if they say, if they answer the question yes, they'll be seen as by some as if they're endorsing sarah palin running for president. and they think that that's politically not a smart move for them in a general election. i totally agree with you, that the clearer meaning of the question, is something much more basic than that. you think what they're afraid of is being seen as too closely tied to her and her potential presidential ambitions. >> nora, your thoughts? i think it cuts even meaner. it's a meaner question in a way because you don't ask that about other politicians. you assume they've got the iq,

the reading habits, the basic knowledge to at least compete. we've had presidents that weren't einsteins, they've done okay. but they're afraid to even say she has even the necessary stuff to be president. not just sufficient, but just the necessaries. >> well miller would not say she's qualified to be president. and even though todd palin says they've kissed and made up on this whole thing, you bet there's probably some raw feelings there. >> here's palin, the governor, former governor reacting to the miller story with fox's sean

hannity last night. i think she's obfuscating, too. let's listen. >> a diversion like that trying to make me part of the narrative there. in joe miller's campaign. joe miller is the right person to help lead alaska and to help lead our nation. and the desperation of the other camps, trying to attack him on a leaked private email from todd to joe miller? you know, that's part of the question, too, is how did the media ever even get that email. >> you know, she has this really -- >> go ahead, nora. >> the answer to that is joe miller accidentally leaked it. it wasn't that somebody else got the nefarious media got ahold of it. joe miller accidentally leaked it. >> it's a red herring how we got it we have it, it's a fact, not being denied. let me go to john on the simple question on the way she handle this thing. how long will perk work for her? she raises the octobave.

are we arguing about a fact here or what side are you on is the question she always changes to. not what the facts are, not what the debate is, are you with me or the big shots in new york. >> i think it's been very effective for her so far and i think she'll continue to try to do it for as long as she can. she probably can continue to get away with it until she becomes an announced candidate. it's fascinating, what i saw todd palin's reas, it seemed to be one of the clearest signs that they're telegraphing that she is thinking of running for president. this is hey, my wife is problem i going to run for president and how dare you not basically stand behind her. given that she's done you this favor. that all of this endorsements are part of building a strategy towards putting herself into the republican nomination contest. >> that's one of the tricks of my trade. i try to say something really irritating so someone has to

react with the truth. they're angry, so they tell the truth. thank you, john. and nora, congratulations on the book. "baby love" you and the supremes. good luck with that. up next, after picking off a bunch of republican senators, deemed not conservative enough this year, tea party is making its list, santa claus bad list for coal in your stocking for 2012. look at the people they don't like. poemia snow, bob corker. orrin hatch. that's a hit. they're not conservative enough? this is "hardball." they're playing "hardball" on msnbc.

well, have a may be making a comeback. the former virginia senator lost his seat in 2006 for making a comment that some critics took as an ethnic slur. now politico is reporting that he's eyeing a rematch with the man who beat him that time, jim

webb. chairman john cornyn who discuss a possible bid two years from now. and one republican lobbyist in virginia said for the past two years allen is telling people privately that he's in. i think so. "hardball" back after this.

we're back with just 26 days to go before the elections this year, there are a bunch of tea party senate candidates who could end up winning. today's "wall street journal" has a headline which is sure to scare senators not on the ballot. tea party wants to ambush more gop senators in 2012. who are they talking about? people like utah's orrin hatch,

maine's olympia snowe. should they be worried? david cornynen is the washington bureau chief for "mother jones" magazine. and sam stein covers politics for the "huffington post." should they be worried? should orrin hatch be scared that he's not conservative enough and certainly bob corker in tennessee. >> i think all republicans should be concerned. i think ronald reagan wouldn't be conservative enough for some of these tea party types. as we've seen in the past few months, if you have these small republican primaries, this group of very angry far-right tea partiers can have tremendous impact. we don't know if they're going to have a big impact on the general election, but we know in the republican primary, they have a lot of weight to pull. so if i was, if i were orrin hatch or any of these others, i'd be running to the right and we already see that happening as "the wall street journal" reported. >> it's hard to launch a defense in this game, sam, because if you've got a 95% conservative voting record, they'll just say,

but you voted for t.a.r.p. or you made a deal with somebody on health care that looked dicey. it's all t.a.r.p. >> yeah. >> or you made a deal with someone on health care that looked dicey. a weird way that people are engaged in politics now. they find one way and then they obsess with it like a tooth abscess. that's all they talk or think or feel is that one thing you did. >> yeah and i hate to say it i agree with david on this one. the institutional hurpdels that usually exist for grassroots' candidates to run for office have been sort of leveled downean if a lot of these tea party candidates went in 2010 it's going to incentivize a lot more of them to run in 2012 and i was at a briefing with david plouff. he said if you're a moderate republican thinking for running for office in 2012 you'd have to have your head examined. you'd likely lose. >> here's the cutting question. you can go sam -- you sam, first. how does the republican party build itself as a governing party a majority party which

really needs to get the middle if it carves out it's own middle? >> it's a good question and people within the party who are really wondering that. i was an an event earlier this week with mel martinez the senator for florida and he expressed real angst about the future of the party. if everyone's going to be lockstep with jim demint there is no room for governance and he said bluntly he thinks it's better that the party did not win the senate. it would still be the democrats who are held to standards by voters and so they're going to have real problems figure out how to actually govern if they take power and like you said the middle has been -- or hijacked way over to the right on this one. >> i want to ask the same question to, david. what do you think, buddy, what happens here if the party basically says if you're a middle of the road or even a moderate conservative, you're gone. at the same time they go after the reagan democrats, the independent voters, the people that are a little upset with obama or angry at him right now and they want them to join a party which is only going to be a right wing party. >> i think they've turned into a zombie party. they're just not going to be interested in governing.

we saw already in the last two years the obstructionism on the right. and if you get rand paul in the senate with jim demint they'll just say no and they'll stop everything. you know senate rules basically allow that, they don't believe in governance. >> okay let me try something by you guys. >> reinventing, right. >> this is serious business. >> it is serious business, chris. >> a gay other than in your family or someone that you care about or you care about human rights, suppose you think that you live in a suburban, you're not armed at home and therefore you believe in gun control. pro-choice abortion rights is there a republican party for you, sam, if you have any of these? because they don't want you in the party apparently if you believe any of these things. >> well, let's be careful here because it's not across the board -- there have been interceptions to the rule. you look at mark kirk for instance, he's not their choice in illinois but he ended up there. my theory is in 2012 once these tea parties win if 2010 real pressure on people like olympia

snowe to make a party switch. >> you're making my point. >> yeah i'm making your point. that said we have to wait until 2010, see how these results play in the general election. if these tea parties lose -- >> you're setting off i strawman. >> i'm not. >> christine o'donnell's going to lose. >> yeah, of course. >> but here's the question, suppose mark kirk gets in this time because they need a candidate they'll be gunning for him next time, david? >> yeah well -- >> they're after him already. >> he'll have six years to move to the fright the tea party doesn't end up exploding the republican party to bits and pieces. but the senators that you just mentioned, some of those people, like orrin hatch and bob corker, you know not my favorite guys, politically, but they have shown in the past the willingness to try to work with democrats on governing issues, whether it's health care or financial reform, and there's so much pressure on these guys to get to your earlier point, chris, to do

nothing with any democrat, not even to sit down and -- in the cafeteria with them that will make things really impossible. and then you know, the republican party will be -- will become the party of not just of no, but of antigovernment and people like that to a certain degree but it won't solve any of the problems that we have. >> yeah, at some point, though, become not the party of the elephant but the party of the barking dogs as the cars go by. anyway, thank you david corn and thank you sam stein. >> thanks, chris. when we return -- let me finish something by saying of president obama well you're not hearing out there, not even from the white house, and i don't know why, even in this tough time. ♪ client comes in and they have a box. and inside that box is their financial life. people wake up and realize i better start doing something. we open up that box. we organize it. and we make decisions. we really are here to help you. they look back and think, "wow. i never thought i could do this." but we've actually done it. [ male announcer ] visit ameriprise.com and put a confident retirement more within reach.

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let me finish tonight with president obama and what he's done. i say the following because no one else including the president has. it is the hard structure of reality that in the current cacophony so often is overlooked. this president came into the office facing the worst economic outlook since the 1930s, he took action, bold action, the action prescribed by the best economic minds following the best thinking there is in economics since the 1930s. first, even before taking office, he backed up his predecessor in preventing a major collapse in the financial industry. everyone involved said it had to be done to avoid catastrophe, the destruction of our country's financial spine. second, he took the action, again, boldly, to powerful offset the white knuckle drop in consumer spend anxiety business investment. if he hadn't, no won, including his worst critics, have any idea

what would have befallen us. by can argue about the name that was given, the stimulus bill, but the creation of this great boost in economic demand for goods and services was critical to break what was widely seen as an economic free-fall. it's easy to stand on the sideline, voting against everything, rooting against everything, in the ride of that bold action for the simple reason nobody would ever remember if you had a seriouslyfly reliable alternative. fdr from on have said, needed to be done. and this humiliating dependency of tens of millions of americans in the emergency room as their only way on get medical attention. he said our responsibility had a responsibility to look at its members healths that individuals should be required what they can do personally to provide for their care. for the first time in our country's history we're no longer the holdout in the modern world against broadly available, accessible health insurance. it is no time for political high-fiving for bragging, we know that.