allegiance in the room. the recent economy report shows the economy lost a total of 95,000 jobs in september. here's a breakdown for you. 159,000 government jobs were lost. while the private sector gained 64,000 jobs. the nation's unemployment rate held steady at 9.6%. president obama reacted to the numbers a couple hours ago when he toured a small business in maryland. >> yes, the trend line in private sector job growth is moving in the right direction. but i'm not interested in trends or figures as much as i am the people behind them. as i've said before, the only piece of economic news that folks still looking for work want to hear is you're hired. >> let's bring in steven

pearlstein. thanks for joining me. >> okay, hi. >> i didn't think we had you there. there you are. we have the unemployment number staying steady. the real unemployment jumped from 16.7. that includes people who have given up working or taken part time work. how may this impact the midterm? >> well, it is impacting -- it is impacting the midterms. people are pretty grumpy about it. they don't see it getting any better any time soon. that would be a correct assessment. it's not going to get any better any time soon. it doesn't matter what the president did or might do. that's already baked into the cake. >> the president today tour ad small business. you have people wondering why the businesses aren't hiring. they topped 11,000 the first time since may. how do you reconcile what's happening on wall street with what's happening across the

country in every neighborhood? >> so what's happening on wall street is two things. number one, profits of companies are good. companies have cut their costs enough so at the current level of sales. total demand for goods and services, they make money. so they're happy. they wish profit would gro faster, but they're profitable. it's not enough to put everybody to work. at least at today's wages and salaries. so we're stuck in an uncomfortable e quill librikw e >> that equates to millions of people. about 14 million people, steve. do you think the white house in this administration did a good

enough job at balancing expectations headed into the midterms? as we know. you hear it repeated so much. people vote thinking will i be the next man or woman out of a job, and can the democrats do a better job than the republicans? at perhaps getting someone back to work. >> well, tha a judgment call. you asked the questions of expectations. that's not the problem. it didn't get better. it was not going to get better. now they're unhappy about it. and they vote against a party in power. it's that simple. it's not an expectations game. it's a results game. which is that when you come out of a financial crisis, the way we did after living for many years beyond our means as a country, this is what happens. there's some things that the government can do. they may be able to make things better in the short term.

my argument would be don't worry about the short term. but that's an argument we can have. the republicans' answer is don't do anything but cut taxes. that won't do much either. you asked me a question before. i had two answers. the other reason the stock market is at 11,000 is because the federal reserve is in the process of printing up a lot of new money. they hope the money will spur activity in the economy. but it's like pushing on a string, as economists would say. what it's really doing is causing people to pay more and more financial assets like stocks, bonds and gold. all that is going to the fm sector. not the economy. >> steve, thank you very much. we greatly appreciate you joining us today. and now the uproar in the heated race between meg whitman

and jerry brown. it involves a private conversation brown had with staffers caught on tape. it started with a voice mail from brown to a police union official. after brown thought he hung up the phone, the democratic candidate is heard talking tough about whitman with a staffer. the staffer used a sexist slur when describing meg whitman. >> joining me now, nbc washington news bureau chief, mark whitaker. you see the words. you get the point. jerry brown's camp apologized

saying this was is a jumbled conversation. they apologized to meg whitman and anybody who may have been offended. will this have an impact on the already tight race? >> well, it's a big embarrassment for jerry brown. he's been caught red handed talking the way a lot of politicians talk when the microphones or the phone lines aren't open. but we live in an age of technology where it's easier to get caught that way. it's given meg whitman a chance to change the subject from her big scandal, over the housekeeper, possibly illegal who was working for her. but you know, tamron, in all this talk about the words used in the conversation, we also should focus on what that conversation was about, which is who is willing to cut deals with the police -- >> for endorsements. >> to protect them against the cuts that california is going to badly need with a $19 billion budget gap and 12.8%

unemployment. >> let me talk about meg whitman's reaction to this. he team says it's an insult, but it's an insult to women of california. some may say that's pretty obvious, who she wants to rile up with the story line. >> absolutely. that race is very tight. she pent $140 million of her own money as a big advantage over jerry brown. but he's ahead in the polls right now. so turning out that election, like all the elections is going to be about turnout. this either turns out more women for her or suppresses the female vote for brown, that will be a plus for whitman. >> mark whitaker, great to see you today. developing now another shakeup inside the obama administration, but one that was expected. general james jones is retiring. this coming after one week after rahm emanuel stepped down as chief of staff. president obama praised jones

for his long service. >> as national security supervisor is one of the most difficult jobs in our government. jim, like the marine he has always been, has been a dedicated public servant and a friend to me. >> he will leave office in two weeks. president obama has chosen deputy tom donilon to the spot. why some democrats are warning a republican takeover of congress could be dangerous. it's coming up at the bottom of the hour. we continue to watch a developing story in hollywood, florida. a rescue operation inside a water tower. here's what happened. two workers were inside the bowl of the tower, doing maintenance work, when the scaffold they were on collapsed. one of the workers has a serious leg injury. the other is semi conscious. there are eight rescue workers on the tour. they're trying to get the men

out of there. onto another story, new evidence has surfaced in the case of an american tourist allegedly shot, killed, by mexican pirates on a lake that straddles the texas/mexico border. the sheriff said they found blood taken from a life vest of tiffa tiffany hartley. tiffany says pirates killed her husband while they are on the border in that lake. janet, this new evidence. i imagine they recovered that before. we're just learning about this detail. >> reporter: that's correct, tamron. you're exactly right. the sheriff said yesterday there was blood evidence on the life vest of tiffany hartley. he believes her story, and he believes this blood is from when she tried to get her husband onto the jet ski and ultimately decided that she could not and fled the scene, because there have, as you know, been questions about the voracity of her story.

she said last night for the first time she would be willing to consider a polygraph test if people continue to doubt her story. yet, the sheriff is on the record as saying there's a credible witness. he believes it. in terms of this search, this is falcon lake behind me. they are continuing the search. however, they've had to suspend it from time to time from get this, threats for the very cartels that are accused of doing this attack in the first place. meanwhile, the sheriff here in zapata county has reached out to the cartel directly saying, look, just give us the body back. that's all we want. we're not going to prosecute you. you can't prosecute you. this is texas. this is a different country. just bring us this body back. so far no body. tamron? >> janet shamlian live for us in texas. thank you very much. transportation secretary ray lahood wants to know why the

nation's biggest transportation project was slapped. thursday he slapped the project saying the initial $8.7 billion budget could balloon. more than $500 million already spent on this decades long project. the transhudson tunnel would have doubled the number of commuter trains from new jersey to manhattan. on the defense, lou dobb goes after a report that says he hired undocumented workers. plus, the outage in britain over a new docu-drama that depicts a member of the royal family captured by the taliban. ♪a young man with ambition ♪ met an old man at the top ♪ asked him if he d a secret ♪ ♪ and the old man stopped and thought and said: ♪ ♪ free 'cause that's how it ought to be my brother ♪ ♪ credit 'cause you'll need a loan for one thing or another ♪ ♪ score 'cause they break it down to one simple number ♪

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welcome back. lou dobbs is coming out swinging over allegations that he hired illegal immigrants. he was the subject of a scathing article in the nation magazine, entitled lou dobbs, american hypocrite. the document does not say he directly hired illegal workers for his energy horse farm, but it suggests he should be held accountable for the contractors he hired who did hire undocumented workers, according to the article. he squared off against the author of the article last night on msnbc's last word with lawrence o'donnell. >> very simply, i have hired no illegal immigrants, no company of mine has hired illegal immigrants, and that's the essential facts. >> i don't have evidence that you directly, knowingly employed any undocumented worker. all i'm saying is they labored on your property. the question i'm wanting you to

answer is where does the buck stop, lou? you became you're holding yourself to a different standard. >> michael, where does the buck stop? >> nobody was turning off that debate last night? i was captivated by it. tamron, i think there's probably truth on both sides. i didn't hear anything in the discourse where he disvowed a single word of that. what is the charge? as you've already said that five or more individuals who were undocumented or illegal worked on his property. his defense is to say well, i'm not the one who hired them, and i believe they're probably both right. in terms of where the buck stops, the buck ought to stop, in my view, at the border. we need to control our border e. and while this is embarrassing for lou dobbs, because surely it is. i was reflecting on the fact

that our pool was closed this week. is it my responsibility to say before you touch the pool, may i see your paperwork? i don't think so. >> you don't write books. and you didn't make millions on this issue. that's exactly what lou dobbs has done. we know that one of the top industries of undocumented workers are exploited in landscaping. you have the workers on your esta estate, property, home, whatever, this is your platform, if you will. wouldn't you require, don't you ask any questions? you're not sniffing around? you think it's a-okay? it's his responsibility to some point if you hire the contractor, you have to know what's happening on your property. >> and to your point, there's a gentleman named rodrigo who apparently worked on one of dobbs' property, and he maintains in the nation, lou dobbs in spanish says call me luis. you know, mi llamo luis.

if you're lou dobbs and you're expert in the manners there ought to be a prujs that a hispanic guy working on your property as a landscaper may not be documented. >> she says dobbs is holding himself to a different standard when it comes to this because he's called for felon charges against people who hire undocumented workers. >> again, i think he's embarrassed by it. but his defense would be i wasn't their employer. when meg whitman said i reached out for a service to bring aboard a nanny or housekeeper. it's not my responsibility. it's theirs. i grew up in texas. i know a lot of people, their family members are in this country illegally, and they are being hired by all kinds of industries, restaurant, hotel, i spoke with an executive at a hotel chain in texas who fought against any kind of reform.

he said it would destroy our hotel. this is a high end hotel. we know the dirty secret is people knowingly hire undocumented workers. the bottom line is, is lou dobbs's argument legitimate that he did not physically hire these folks? that it was someone else? >> i think it's embarrassing, but legitimate. i don't think those are contradictory. i've been in the circumstance. the question is how far should you have to go. i didn't base my career hon this issue the same way he did, but i've hire ad lot of folks. how far do you have to go? the plumber? the cable man? the landscaper? it gets creep pi at a certain point. where are your papers? >> if that's his platform, that's what he advocates, then he needs to watch his back or he ends up in this article. thank you very much. nice spanish as well. >> we're going to leave it at that. thank you, michael. have a great weekend. >> you, too.

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welcome back. there's outrage in britain over a new docu-drama that depicts

prince harry captured by the taliban. an army defense source says the film is deeply distasteful. neither prince harry nor members of the family have commented publicly on it. scenes have been making the round on tv and the internet. michelle kosinski is in london with more details. michelle, talk to me about the reaction so far. as i pointed out, it's not aired officially. >> it has surprising action scenes in it. even though it hasn't aired, it's been raising this question, is this an informative creative look at a subject that deeply interests people here around the world, or a cheap ratings grab that happens to be in the opinion of many in very bad taste? >> what would it look like for prince harry were taken prisoner by insurgents in afghanistan. how about this? according to to a new documentary, the taking of

prince harry that will air this month, aiming to show how britain would handle such a thing. for now the program itself some are finding awful. >> yes, of course it's in poor taste. a lot of people are being killed in these hostage situations. >> the docu-drama, emphasis on the drama, will show 26-year-old harry captured, forced to appear in a propaganda and a mock execution, in which a mock gun is pointed at his face and a captive pulls the trigger. >> i've seen people come out from lots of hostage situations. i tell you what they feel like, absolutely terrified. absolutely completely terrified. i just don't like it being put into some drama documentary which appeals to get the television ratings up. >> it will also mention the young prince's nickname, bullet magnet, during the month of 2008

when he did serve on the front lines in afghanistan. when his posting became published rushed home. harry wants to return. >> i want to go back very, very soon. >> now some royal watchers say what's the big deal about a work of fiction on an interesting topic? >> to be brutally honest at the time when harry was in afghanistan, the taliban were very vocal and al qaeda was vocal in saying he was the number one target. he is somebody they would love to capture and torture and make an example of. this is a piece of drama. it should be taken as such. >> a spokesperson says such speculation about security matters really isn't helpful, especial ly when security is suh a big deal surrounding the two men? even now with these terror alerts around europe to the point that his security detail

here on the home front had to be increased recently. >> michelle, thanks. well, could a gop takeover of congress create a dangerous situation for women in america? well, you're going to hear from a democratic women's group who said this could happen. we'll explain the statement coming up. [ animals calling ] ♪ [ pop ]

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[ announcer ] when you're not worried about potential dangers, the world can be a far less threatening place. take the scary out of life with travelers insurance... and see the world in a different light. four more years of tax and spend and regulate will not work. >> all you and your friends want to do is just criticize and say no, no, no. while we've been working here in ohio to create jobs. you were working on wall street to outsource our jobs. >> those were the candidates for governor in ohio in a heated debate last night. democratic governor ted strickland is in a tough fight for re-election against john kasik. john harwood is live from the state capitol of columbus. it was announced just yesterday the president and mrs. obama will campaign next weekend in

ohio. >> reporter: exactly. it's great news for mary joy l kilroy. she and her republican challenger appeared before an audience to talk about health care and other issues and traded attacks about who favors wall street and who is for the average person, but this is a tough climate, we saw the jobs numbers today, tamron, 9.6% nationally. it's higher than that in the state of ohio, and democrats are trying to hang on. >> ohio is facing a shortfall. you mentioned the unemployment is at 10%. can the president really have an impact there? we saw a poll yesterday showing most voters will not be swayed, at least by the president's support of a candidate. >> well, the question, tamron, is whether or not he can sway democratic partisans to come out

and vote. the challenge is in 2008 you had this surge of young people, minorities, who swept to the polls, gave the president victories in some states the democrats weren't used to winning and some districts where mary joy kilroy barely won over the republican, stivers. this year her challenge is getting people out to the polls. so she's delighted the president is coming back. and persuasion isn't what it's about this year. both sides are dug in. republicans are fired up, and the question is can democrats get fired up at least to approach the enthusiasm that republicans have. >> all right, cnbc's chief washington correspondent john harwood live for us in washington. we turn to the female vote. among the biggest challenge is turning out the numbers of women who helped elect president obama two years ago. meantime, one democrat women's group is warning a republican takeover of congress would mean,

quote, a dangerous world. joining me now, a spokeswoman from emily's list, jess macintosh. explain the statement to me. how would it be a dangerous world? >> today's gop is not a friendly place for women. you have jim demint saying unmarried woman shouldn't teach in classrooms. you have them saying a teenage rape victim should make lemonade out of lemons and carry the babies to term. and john boehner who will lead the largest majority of radicals that we have seen. this guy literally passed out checks from tobacco lobbyists on the floor of the house to sway a vote. he will take us so far back to a culture of cronisms and corruption and back door deals. >> if your view is the accurate view, why is it so difficult then to get women on that level

of enthusiasm, as we see, for example, with the tea party? it should be a slam dunk if what you're saying is right. >> well, i think in a lot of ways democratic women, women everywhere, have busy lives. they have jobs. they have kids. they have families. and the news right now isn't speaking to them. they're not angry. they're not tea partiers. women were less than enthusia enthusiastic about coming to vote. it wasn't frustration. it wasn't anger at washington keeping them home. it was a lack of reliable information from sources they trusts. >> but to counter that, the mama grizzlies would say we find our information. we're supporting nikki haley, carly fiorina, meg whitman. a lot of strong women maybe not in line with what you believe. >> i think mama grizzly has been a pretty effective marketing strategy. i mean, republicans are doing better than republicans usually do at fielding women candidates.

better doesn't mean good. they still have a hard time getting women to vote for republicans. less than one-third of the women they fielded made it through the primaries. the ones who did are so far to the right, they have a hard time making it through the generals, too. it's not a branding tool. >> and the number of women in congress could decrease for the first time in 30 years. that would seem to also be a wa wake-up call in whatever party affiliation you have as a woman that you would hear that. >> i think it's incredibly compelling. we know what happened in 1994 when there was a big gop wave. 16 million women stayed home. women who had voted the previous cycle. we need to make sure that doesn't happen this year. at emily's list. that's what we're trying to do. we're having our members reach out to these democratic women

who may not be sold on voting and tell them this is their choice and women are going to make the difference. >> thank you very much for joining us. we greatly appreciate it. well, this sunday on "meet the press" david gregory has giannoulis. and it's been said every word posted online is written not with pencil, but with ink. that is ringing true for officials for the agriculture department in the hasty firing of shirley sherrod. they had not fully watch ad video that wrongly painted shirley sherrod a racist. but a white house aide still wrote to congratulate them on a job well done. it's an unpleasant story but getting on top of this fast blunts any traction it will get.

thanks for the great effort. pet peter nicklaus is washington bureau reporter. very fascinating. we always say we wish we could be the fly on the wall. you see this unravel. you see the uh-oh moment in the e-mails. >> we were talking to agriculture officials worried this was getting traction. they wanted to squash it, in the words of one agriculture official. and they acted swiftly, way too hastily. and it backfired terribly on them. >> i have another exchange released after this came out. this is the officials going back and forth. quote, it salespeoples for itself and you need to watch it right away, referring to the video andrew breitbart had. this is horrible. secretary vilsack is is sick and mad over this sherrod issue. he wants her immediately on

administrative leave. amazing how there was no benefit of the doubt. it speaks to the climate where some folks feel the pressure and they have to react. >> that's right. the political climate is a difficult one. the obama administration is concerned about being perceived as not tough enough on the issue of reverse racism. they thought they would get ahead of the story. what the e-mails show is they knew there was another story here. the e-mail traffic back and forth among the agriculture officials shows shirley sherrod was telling them there's more video to look at. this is not a story about racism. this is a story about her transformation and realization that people have to move beyond race. they were unwilling to listen. in fact, the day after she was fired, the department of agriculture put together talking points defending the action they had taken. in the talking points they discuss the fact that there was, that her remarks may have been taken out of context. that didn't necessarily stop

them. they wanted to fire her anyway. >> and two other things of note, peter. you see they're worried at the time shirley sherrod was doing tv interviews. and there was also an e-mail exchange discussing whether or not some african-american leaders needed to be recruited to help with the damage control. >> one thing that's clear is the department of agriculture is watching tv news. they're watching how they're depicted on television. yes, there was some damage control being discussed. at one point a representative from the white house, one of the faith community, had a request hat the department of agriculture to line up black pastor validate rs. who can say supportive things or help the department of agriculture get through the tough situation or what they described a tricky political situation. >> oh, boy. it was interesting to read these e-mai

e-mails. thank you very much. a temporary halt in the rescue mission of those trapped chilean miners. the minister of mines has said that plan "b" has been temporarily suspended to inspect the drill. rescue workers are expected to break ground in less than 24 hours. once the drill breaks through, a specially made capsule will be put in place to pull the men to the surface. the process could take anywhere from three to ten days. the miners will decide the order each man will come out. because you've been covering this extensively and doing a great job, you have to catch me up. there's different plans. >> reporter: plan "b" is almost there. it's about 130 feet away. it's a 2,074-foot shaft they're trying to drill down. they're very, very close. the fact that the drill bit is so dull they have to take it out, that happened over and over and over again. everybody is so anxious now because they're so close, that

this delay feels like a little bit more anxious for everybody. like why did it have to happen now? they're moving quickly. as they're moving quickly a little city is continuing to be built out here. in what they call camp hope. on the mountain on the side of the hill there, they have 32 chilean flags. one bolivian flag. for the 33 miners trapped below. they have figured out with the assistance of those up on the surface the order of those who will be brought out first, then next, and on and on and on and on. they're not releasing the specific names of the order, but they are telling us the first groups are ones they've been monitoring who they think are the calmest. those with the most experience. those who when they're being brought up will be able to handle it. the capsule, by the way, is called the phoenix. it will be rising as a phoenix

shall. and interestingly, this has been put together by nasa. nasa helped them do all the steps of these escape capsules. as i was speaking to the minister of health he said nasa said one thing. you must have a plan. you must have a plan with protocols and you can't deviate. there's no opportunity to take a moment and say let's improvise at the moment. they have to have plans of contingency. we're going to walk over to this gentleman and get more information. the minister of health told us one of his concerns about deep vein thrombosis. being held in a position maybe for 20 minutes with the condition they've been in. this is what he said. >> we have to bring -- in order to be completely sure. to assess the final health condition on every one of the miners before they are put in the capsule.

>> reporter: and so we're lucky to come up here now. we're going to listen about what he's doing and what sort of progress they're making. how do you feel about what you've gone through thus far and how close you are? >> all i can tell you is obviously this is a lot different. i've been in this business 25 years. this is obviously much different. i'm very happy that the skills we have is able to be used to get these guys out. >> the process of getting down to them. this final phase where you're going to breakthrough, get down to them, but at the same time, you don't want anything to collapse on them. is it a more delicate process or not? >> oh, yeah. as i was mentioning. they make mines like they're cutting through the wall or exploding. so you're going to have an area above the mine that's fractured. that's one of the reasons that

the decision was made to change the equipment now. now we have a brand new hammer. we could have punched down in a normal situation if we were drilling for money, for example, we would have kept on drilling last night. but if we lost gauge and it started to diminish, we would have pulled out and gone smaller. we can't do that. we have to get the cage through there. so the decision was made to redo it that time. >> reporter: thank you very much. it's interesting to hear a play by play. you heard him say 37 meters. that's more updated information of how close they are. they keep talking about the fact they've had one miracle here. that is that all 33 of the miners survived the mine collapse. they're waiting for the second miracle, to bring the miners up to the saur fas. i asked the health minister. i asked the minister of the mines, are you overconfident? when you're talking about with the families they're all going to make it up, are you

overconfident? he said, no, we're confident but we recognize there are still dangerous steps in the final phase, and we're trying to do everything we can to make sure the final miracle happens. that is all 33 make it to the surface. >> great report, terry. thank you very much. well, a lawyer is jailed after he did not say the pledge of allegiance in court. did that judge cross the line? plus, what do you get when you cross a plate of spaghetti with a taco? a hit kids show set off a sensation in the food world. it's the spaghetti taco. why is this such a rage? ♪

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welcome back. the oscar buzz over a horse. is it this year's "blind side"? and a young sitcom star, a lot of money and have you heart of spaghetti tacos? let's get the scoop from courtney hazlett.

first, combo cooking. we're talking secretariat. we have a movie already getting oscar buzz. diane lange and john malkovich. in a lot of ways the film is being marketed kw eed like "the side." this is the first we're hearing of it. we're going to continue hearing about it. roger ebert says it's a film about greatness. the story of the horse and the woman who had the faith in him. so, should we move onto spaghetti tacos? anybody who has kids or doesn't like kids, they know what spaghetti tacos are already. it started as a prank. the main character, her older brother decided to make spaghetti tacos for dinner. now people want to eat them.

>> people are googling and going online to search for spaghetti taco recipes. >> people are sending in pictures of their own spaghetti tacos. "the new york times" did a big feature on them. they're all focusing on spaghetti ta spaghetti tacos. >> we had nothing that transcended, you know, going from the screen. you're looking at them now. >> so this is basically spaghetti. >> i think it could use a little bit of garnish. that's it. >> are we going to try one? >> yeah, we'll try one. >> these were cooked like 30 hours ago. >> not that long ago, tamron. relax. where did you get this? >> spaghetti in a taco.

i don't think it's that bad. tamron hall and i. >> that shell is stale. i'm going to practice this. spaghetti taco. >> we'll have a cook off later on. >> i feel like a kid at heart. for the latest entertainment news and food recipes. i'm so sorry. log onto scoop.todayshow.com. you can be a fan of the scoop on facebook. >> friend me. like me. >> i can see it with the right sauce. >> little bland. stufy, can i get a refill? i wanted skim. come on, get your head in the game, stufy! thanks, stufy. man, i love that cookie. tdd# 1-800-345-2550 are still talking about retirement tdd# 1-800-345-2550 like it's some kind of dream. tdd# 1-800-345-2550 it's either this magic number i'm supposed to reach, or... tdd# 1-800-345-2550 it's beach homes or it's starting a vineyard. tdd# 1-800-345-2550 come on! tdd# 1-800-345-2550 just help me figure it out in a practical, tdd# 1-800-345-2550 let's-make-this-happen kind of way.

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crossing the line, well, you tell me. should you be thrown in jail for not saying the pledge of allegiance in a courtroom? a mississippi attorney found himself behind bars doing just that. wtva reporter kalisha whitman from our nbc affiliate in mississippi has the story. >> it started as a normal day in court. >> i was laying my material out to get prepared for trial. >> but that normal day quickly

turned into a jail visit for this attorney. all because he didn't want to say the pledge of allegiance. >> i tried to explain it's a personal matter to me. i don't have to answer about it. >> but he says the explanation wasn't enough. >> at this point he had the deputies take me into custody. >> the court documents say he refused to stand and say the pledge, but he says it didn't happen that way. >> he says please stand for the pledge of allegiance. we're all standing for the judge to come in. it's a matter of courtesy. i just remained standing. >> the attorney says when it was over the judge asked him to say it, and when he didn't, that's when the judge held him in contempt. the episode happened here. we're told by the lawyer it's not the first time the judge had him removed from the courtroom? >> i was asked to leave the courtroom because i did not want to participate in the pledge. >> we talked to another attorney about the issue. he says if he didn't want to say the pledge, then he had the

constitutional right. >> you have a right to speak, and you also have a right to remain silent. so i was shocked when hi heard a lawyer was put in jail because he was remaining silent. that's a fundamental constitutional right. doesn't make a difference if you agree with him or not. >> he says he hopes the judge and him will be able to come to terms. >> we have different viewpoints. i'm afraid he's resolved as i am resolved. i would rather talk to him privately, because i like him. >> tell me if it's crossing the line. go to tamron.msnbc.com to vote. that wraps up this hour. norah o'donnell picks up our coverage from washington. you're watching msnbc.

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