geist's "american freak show" i my book will be out. >> they say i better enjoy willie's masterpiece. >> you don't have to be able to read, pictures and big fonts. >> i got up to be first in line to get a copy of justin biever's book. >> let me ask you, would you buy a book from that guy? no. "morning joe" starts right now. >> mr. johnson refused to answer the question about citizen united. i'll tell you why. he already endorsed it and all for it. he is benefitting tremendously in his campaign from millions of dollars in these ads. i don't want them. you say you don't want them? will you call on them to stop? >> i have no control over that. >> will you ask them to stop?

>> that's their right to free speech. >> that's your right to free speech to tell them to stop. >> people have a right to free speech. >> the answer is no. >> all right. here we go. that's the way to start the show. top of the hour, 6:00 on the east coast. good morning. welcome to "morning joe." we have msnbc senior politiis, mark halpern and the cohost of "need to know," jon meacham. good morning. willie is coming in but he's being mobbed. >> 49th street is blocked. >> will he be okay? >> we drove down 49th street the morning of justin biever -- >> sort of like that. >> screaming kids, great. >> somebody had a sign that said not since newtonburg. >> you can find it at a store, good luck. >> you can't do it, can you?

>> he will not make it. >> that's not what i meant. >> there he is, slow clap. slow clap. >> no, no. >> i didn't expect it. >> that's great. >> he's wearing a tie for "american freak show." >> it's awesome. >> congratulations. >> thanks. >> there was a blurb in the back of the book, he compare mess to carrot top, i really appreciate. >> that's exciting. are you all right? >> great. >> a big boy, you wrote a book. >> it reminds he -- >> who wins that argument between johnson and feingold? >> probably neither. they'd both be better off talking about the economy than

who's paying for which ads. >> feingold wanted to tell him to drop citizens united? >> not citizens united. some other crossroads. feingold is basically telling people, you should tell people to stop running ads in your behalf. johnson says, none of my business. probably voters in wisconsin care more about jobs than who's paying for which ads. >> big show today. guess who will be here? whoopi. whoopi goldberg will be here this morning. >> to celebrate the launch of "american freak show." >> exactly. and american labor secretary, robert reich and ron jaworski. >> ya-worski is how you say it in poland. >> we're not in poland. >> i wish he would stoic his roots. >> what's football like in poland?

pretty strong? we'll start with vice president joe biden criticizing republican groups pouring large funds of money that he says may come from quote foreign sources speaking to democratic campaign workers outside scranton, pennsylvania and targeted gop strategist karl rove who has his stable of billionaires literally and millionaire, pouring tens of millions of dollars into close races. does its surprise you that karl rove and his friends, the architect of policies that drove us into this ditch raising tens of millions of dollars from shady sources, shade din the sense we don't know where the money is coming from. he said i challenge the chamber of commerce to tell us how much of the money they're investing from foreign sources. i challenge them. if i'm wrong, i stand corrected. show me, show me. last night, the senior vice

president of communications for the chamber of commerce responded by saying this. >> this is their strategy. they adopted this strategy, attacking the chamber of commerce and talking about foreign sources bob sheiffer a couple days ago, every time i hear this, i hear bob sheiffer going, is that all you got? is that all you got? >> we may want to use the countdown clock not being used for the freak show and this is central argument democrats used to win the election es. even if it works and the press weren't pushing back against it, i'm not sure how they think this appeals to voters to call out the chamber of commerce allegedly using foreign money.

it also seems to be strange to demonizing the foreign, no one advocating law breaking but the boogie word "foreign" that anything foreign is bad. >> they're also going after china, the "new york times" sunday article saying they're attacking china, candidates they think are too close to china. sort of anti-foreign approach in the money, in the new york ci"n times" article. >> no one is for money. this demonization of the word "foreign," talking incessantly about the chamber of commerce, not some shadowy group, they're trying to smoke them out and release who their donors are to get billionaires to go after. it's not going to happen. for the president and vice-president of the united states to keep up a line with no basis, the chamber has to prove they're not using foreign money

is really mystifying. >> that's not mccarthyism. i hate people -- little joey gets thrown out at first base, people will go, that's mccarthyism. that's not mccarthyism. that is the logic of mccarthyism. prove it. you want me to prove a negative? which is again going back to sheiffer, sheiffer said to axelrod, give us evidence. give us evidence that they're not. it is a desperate attempt, i think. >> i agree with everything mark said up to the last word, which is mystifying. i don't think it's mystifying at all, given the cards they've got and the genuine legitimate frustration with the results of the citizens united case, where you have this total flow of money utterly untraceable, i

think their frustration with both the substance of what's going on, frustration that no one appreciates what they've done, what they saved us from, if we hear one more word about this ditch -- >> that's all they talk about. >> driven in the ditch. fill the ditch up with the stimulus thing. i understand -- the human level, you have to understand, they're sitting there going, rove is back, he's putting all this money in, we got to get out there and do something and they go and do this. >> if they believe -- does barack obama believe he's accomplished great things these first two years? >> yes. historic things. everybody i talked to said he believes he's done great things. >> yeah. >> if i believe id d-- i did great things for two years, i wouldn't read polls to see whether americans got it or not. i wouldn't bring up ditches and

karl rove and the boogeyman. >> i think if you read - read -- forgive me, if you read those polls and saw people weren't appreciating you for your genius, you'd fall back on why is this? what's going on. it's never the substance, always the message or tactic, remember in '04, lots of democrats said if only we had a karl rove, we would have won. maybe they just disagree with you. sometimes they disagree. i think the human level of frustration here is really revealing. you talk to people in the white house and they're weary and they're tired and they're frustrated, they're trying to go find other cities to run for mayor of. on the human level, i totally understand. >> mika, my point is this. in one of my campaign, we had to do things to save medicare. the trustees said it was going bankrupt, we made tough calls and extended the life for seven

years, the only thing that could be done. still, democrats were demagoguing that issue. my opponent, in my first debate started going after me, saying, joe scarborough wants to throw grandma out in the street. got it so mad, i know that will surprise you because i am such a thoughtful soul, i got so angry at his demagoguery and we were in front of a group of senior, the rest of this debate, i will only talk about medicare, ask me about education, ask me about tax cuts, i will talk about medicare. that's all i did. i buried the guy, buried him by going to what i believe was the right thing. he never brought it up again in the campaign. that's my argument with obama, if he really does believe he has created history and if his followers really do believe that, don't sink to ditch analogies. as your central argument, sure, throw that in, sprinkle that in,

blame karl rove, blame bush, there's a lots off blame to go around. >> quit fix it aing. >> that is their central argument that the "new york times," "wall street journal" and cnbc news already blew out of the water. >> and your article in "politico" talks about this is either a seminal moment to either try to salvage the brand or lose it forever. >> this negative campaigning for the democrats will not work. >> you said, talk about defending what you've done. how about saying give me a democratic congress back and here's what i will do affirmatively. all he says is don't give mae republican congress bus we don't want to go back to being in the ditch with george bush. there has to be a positive argument. it seems pretty obvious, their polling focus groups say the things you have done are not popular an in this you want to do couldn't sell. >> brings up a great point. we around this table all the

time criticize the republican party not having plans. we never stopped to say, what will the democrats do? we know what they did over the last two years, but i couldn't tell you one thing the democratic congress would do over the next two years. >> i wonder about the shelf life of the blame bush thing. it still resonates for a lot of democrats, you see the dnc ad, the bush crowd is stealing democracy. joe biden broke the record for using karl rove's name the most times in one sentence and a strategy is look backward and not forward. >> a gallup poll this weekend showed bush and obama, who would you prefer to be president. it was -- obama, 48, bush, 46%. even that attack -- that attack, maybe they're trying to gin up the base. maybe that's what they have to do, attack karl rove, attack bush. talk about ditches. and the base comes out.

>> we do have a lot of other issues to get through. >> john had a thought. >> you had a thought? >> i think it did, it did. i've been reading "americmerame freak show." >> it does that to you. >> i wouldn't be sursfrids see it get a little worse, the frustration level. they can't understand why don't people understand we saved them from armageddon. when you start a sentence with why don't they understand, you will not make wise decisions. >> what you do again is explain it. you're exactly right. you explain it. you say, we were standing at the edge of an abyss, the likes of which we have not seen in half a century. think about that and think about what the republicans wanted to do. what was their answer? if that's what you believe, go there. hope, mika, change. >> we still have it. we do, we do.

up next -- >> american freak show. >> an exclusive look at top stories. also vikings and jets battle into the early morning on monday night football. we have the details behind brett farve's apology to his team before the game. first, here's bill karins. >> bill karins will apologize to us. we like his game. when will he say he's sorry? >> as soon as you guys deserve it. a little feisty this morning. the stutter phones kept you up late last night. hit hard last night. light rain in philly, probably the worst, interstate 80 in pennsylvania. this morning, cloudy an wet. this afternoon, the weather will improve. problems at the airport delays this morning. temperatures much cooler than yesterday, especially around boston an hartford, showers early. probably sunny, later this

afternoon. tomorrow, late fall day, 60s just about everywhere. thursday looks rainy, in case you have plans the end of the week. 80s in the south, 70s in the northern plains. hurricane paula, looks like it could affect cancun and cozumel and looks like a weak system and welcome not threaten the united states. you're watching "morning joe" brewed by starbucks. [ kim's friend ] people know a lot about kim.

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he was also on the "today" show talking to matt lauer where he continued to hammer andrew cuomo for faking his daughters to a gay pride parade. >> he took his daughters to a gay pride parade. is that normal? >> i think you can -- >> i don't think that's proper, i think it's disgusting. >> thank you for coming back. i appreciate it. >> what was he wearing? >> the whole -- >> we will do headlines across the country. >> i would love to. people need to know. >> or at least the elite northeast. before we do that. jon meacham, pulitzer prized winner. >> so elegant. >> he has labeled this book-deutsche care to repeat it?

>> in your voice. >> in my voice, it's a classic of its genre. i would like to leave, don't laugh at this ad. >> you mean it. >> i would like to read the blurb that respects a little bit better. i've read laminated safety cards with greater intellectual -- >> that's so great. >> it's funny because it's true. >> it's not funny because it's a little too true. >> all right. newspapers now. >> just the cards are good. >> from "american freak show." the washington times say there are signs they're working on a surge for from 2007. >> former president bill clinton stumps for joe manchin during a campaign rally in morgantown, where bill clinton said he was shocked and stunned and deeply

saddened by the hick commercial. >> i was, too. joe miller said sunday, he will not answer any more questions on his personal background the rest of the campaign. he has drawn a line in the sand. you can ask me about personal issues but i won't answer it. >> can we do that? is that allowed? >> carl paladino -- >> can he do that? will run for office again. >> off limits is off-limits. atlanta constitution, photo shows bobbie cox tipping his hat one last time as the manager of the atlanta braves. sad night. >> we will have highlights later. end of an ir era in atlanta. jim has a look at the morning playbook. >> hi. how are you doing? >> doing great. you're a cheesehead, spent time in wisconsin, following any senate race.

what should we be looking at? >> to prove i'm a cheesehead, i'm losing my voice for screaming so violently when packers lost redskins. i think wisconsin is a great race, if you're looking for one race that tells you everything happening in this campaign, all the different story lines, tea party drama, bolting of independence to republican party, rise of number of people considering themselves conservative and wounded incumbent probably safe in any other political environment and ron johnson from my hometown of oshkosh, came out of nowhere, hadn't thought about politics anywhere and last four polls show him beating russ feingold a lot of people thought was pretty unbeatable late last year. >> you say feingold says his internals are showing good numbers. any reason to believe the public polls are different than his in terms? >> not clear yet because there hasn't been a poll in the last week. feingold called last night said

listen, our in terms show me up and johnson falling big time. i don't know if that's true or not. won't know fiscal there's a public polling out there. conservancy are up more than i av seen them and independents skeptical of the democratic party and i think feingold is paying a price for being attached to them, not necessarily himself. >> we saw cheney, just out of the hospital. how is his health? >> he looks quite frail. lost 25 pounds. his friends say he might have to get a heart transplant. his friends say he's getting out there, will do 10 speeches, most paid. not a lot of political events between now and election day, trying to finish his book in the editing process, supposed to come out next year. i for one think that will be a

great book mostly because he has seen everything in washington the last 25 years and involved in most administrations, every republican administration and obviously a very very divisive figure. i think he will do score settling in this book and has a world view thattic ti ticks a l people off and does not mind ticking people off. >> and chied head, a huge game this weekend. number one ohio state coming to mad town. can badge epackers do it? >> yes, i can. >> that was an ugly one. rest that voice. the man that took off his clothes and went streaking during the obama rally. >> when do you have time to fit all this in. >> why he did this. >> south carolina senate candidate, alvin greene, goes on the last word with lawrence o'donnell. you know this will be good.

yes, lawrence did ask him if he is a witch. >> your nickname in high school, i'm told, is turtle. where does that come from? does that tell us anything about how this race might end up? ♪ [ indistinct shouting ] ♪ another day ♪ another dollar ♪ daylight comes [ dogs barking ] ♪ i'm on my way ♪ another day ♪ another dollar ♪ working my whole life away ♪ another day ♪ another dollar

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someone on the jerry brown team calling meg whitman a name usually reserved for prostitutes. >> desiree? cinnamon? lucinda jay nobloga? >> someone from the jerry brown campaign was caught on tape calling meg whitman a word that rhymes with bore. >> we can't say the world on television, rimes with bore, a bad word that rhymes with snore. >> a bad dr. seuss book? how old are you?

is there anyone out there in basic cable land brave enough to use a word that is actually completely legal, to say on television? >> if you're running against a woman in a close race, don't call her a whore. >> a whore? >> i stayed on the non--whore side of that line. >> the non-whore side of that line. >> slow down there, you don't have to make up for everybody not saying whore. could she look any nicer? resplendid in a canary ensemble and he in his most but tafuco fleece? where else would you see this couple together? the only place visually would be in the cab of his tow truck after she broke down on her way to see her horse race in the kentucky derby. >> i don't know where to start.

>> that is great stuff. >> buttaco fleece. >> first of all, i have that truck. >> you used the word -- >> never. >> you were lathering in it. that is ridiculous. >> i feel bad. >> they added like garage sales as well? >> we will cut a little bit more. good. >> that is funny. desiree. >> cinnamon. >> what was the next one? >> something nobgobbler. didn't catch the first name. >> so i will try to look as unbuttafuco as possible. >> today, you're like wearing a tucks compared to that. >> fleece. >> you should see the food on his sweater, seriously. >> no, no, no -- >> she wasn't actually telling you to look at my sweater. >> keep breakfast off your belly and i will do the news. >> that's my 10:00 snack.

>> just add water. >> tonight, rescue workers in chile are expected to pull out 33 miners trapped underground more than 60 days. officials have drawn up a secret list which men should come out first. the order could change after rescue men descend to the mine to evaluate them. yesterday, we learned members of the group have apparently arguing who gets to leave the mine last, to nab the spot in the intelligence worguinness wo. they will be on a liquid diet in a trip 20 minutes to the surface in a steel cage dubbed the phoenix 1. once the miners are out of the shaft, they have to contend with a whole different set of challenges. contracts for book and movie deals are pending along with job offers. >> look at this msnbc graphic. >> we have a whole team covering it. >> a graphic budget for the year.

we didn't use the graphics on bp because we knew this day might be coming. >> stop. we had great graphics on bp. >> think how far tv news has come since baby jessica. >> my god. >> look at his stance. that is a defiant -- >> that is a defiant chilean miner. >> they're growing to proposal palace, invitations to take all expense paid vacations and appear on countless -- >> was this our lead story? seriously? >> meaning it should be or shouldn't be? >> shouldn't be. >> come on. a great story. >> this is baby jessica on steroids. now, they're trying to -- >> maybe contribute to the chamber of commerce? >> i don't -- >> you also love baby jessica. go ahead. >> i'm not doing that part off the story, chris, that's unnecessary. >> it's all on tape. everybody thinks she's talking

to chris in the control room. he didn't say a word. she's talking to herself. go ahead. she has a friend named chris. go ahead. you liked that, huh? a u.s. military tribunal scheduled to hold a hearing today to determine if an army major, nadal hassan, should stand trial for last year's shooting spree at texased for hofor -- texas fort hood that left 14 people today. today's so-called article 32 hearing is the military's equivalent of a grand jury hearing to determine if there's enough evidence to bring hassan to trial. the "wall street journal" is reporting a coalition of as many as 40 state attorneys general is expected to announce a joint investigation into potentially faulty foreclosures of the nation's largest banks and mortgage firms. at issue is what the used fraudulent documents to evict people from their homes.

the banks contend the problems are largely technical and papers approved by so-called robo signers and don't show substantive problems with foreclosures. now, to the author of "american freak show." >> speaking of freak show, brett farve, and genitals, all i will say, i will say it once. did he apologize for that? >> he apologized to his teammates before the game. >> did he actually send them some of his texts? >> he may have shared them. >> allegations brett farve sent inappropriate text messages to a sideline reporter during his time as quarterback with jets in 2008. last night, he returned to the stadium you in east rutherford as a viking to take on his former team. a bad omen, how about the weather? lightning thunderstorms in the new york area, look at the wind. pushed back the start time of the game 45 minutes, drove it

deep into the night. brett farve finds his new man, randy moss, his 5th touchdown pass in the fourth quarter. jets up by nine, percy harvin, what a great catch, gets both feet in the end zone, cuts the jets lead with two points remaining and historic drive on monday night. >> something you never see. >> does what he does best. >> you never see brett farve throwing an interception. >> dwight lowery picks it off, runs it in for a touchdown, 29-20, jets improve 4-1, now lead the nfc east, vikings fall to 1-3. >> that just doesn't happen, farve throwing an interception. >> it happened to him last season and a couple seasons before that. >> the nfl is still looking into those allegations that farve sent the text messages to this young woman, jets sideline reporter, jen stur ger.

>> not a woman who would want to attract publicity. >> the quarterback offered a tearful apology to his teammates in a pregame meeting last night saying he was sorry for being a distraction. >> what about her? >> take her down. >> please don't send me text messages that might be inproponent. >> between me and my teammates. >> apparently, not all of them. i said what i had to say. i'm disappoint wed lost this football game. if you want to talk about football. i can't say i'd love to talk about football. >> there you go. he's very upset by the whole thing. >> very upset. >> how about the baseball playoffs? san francisco giants looking to close out their series, cody ross, bases loaded. buster posey comes to score the run that would matter. pat burrell thrown out at the plate. didn't matter, giants beat the

braves, 3-2. a big deal not just because they move on to play the phillies, but because it was the last game for bobbie cox going into retirement. he initially darted into the clubhouse, then realized, this is the last game of my life. he came back out and took a curtain call and you can see the fans appreciate it as the opposing team did. 16 trips to the playoff, one world series tit. after the game, he gave a tearful final press conference. >> did you address the players afterwards? >> the best i could. i told them i was really proud of them. >> joe, you grew up suffering with the atlanta braves, we all did because you watched the

braves, early '90s, bobbie cox turned around. >> no doubt about it. the braves, other than that whole meddlesome world series, braves were the team of the '90s. >> without a question. >> without a doubt, they had the most wins of the year, one world series in '95, year after year after year, they were close to 100 games. i don't think any team in the history of baseball won as many in a row. seven in a row. that's stunning. >> they were the laughing stock for years and years and now the most docminant team in the '90s. >> they were horrible. >> the winner gets the yankees in the alcs between yankeranger rays. and the winner gets the yankees. and ron jaworski will be with us in the next hour and back with mika's must read

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take multivitamins and vitamin cs, a popular medicine in the u.s., tylenol is something i use from time-to-time when i have a headache or when i am tired. definitely not. rather funny. >> welcome back. >> look at -- >> back to msnbc's pill, mika brzezinski. >> hey! >> going off antibiotics, can that make you erratic, one day saying you are with the u.s. and neck taliban? >> no. that can make you withstand the antibiotics. >> what about the chewables? >> the gummy ones or -- >> i meant the gummy ones of course. >> that's why we're fighting, to prop up his government. our man in afghanistan. >> you are not one to talk about pills. >> our man in afghanistan, that's why we're fighting right now, to prop up his government.

that's the only justification given. wow. >> i'm just not sure -- well -- >> good larry king interview, though. >> was it? did you see it? how was larry? >> he's not coasting to the end. he trumped him. >> lady gaga? >> another clip of hamid karzai? this is about the taliban. >> these things really jump off the screen. there he is, karzai, larry king for the hour. >> we have been talking to the taliban, countryman to countryman talk, in that manner, not as a regular official contact with the taliban with a fix aid dress, but rather unofficial personal contacts have been going on quite some time. afghanistan is once again the home for all afghans and the

taliban, as afghans are welcome. >> clearly a story we're following and will have more in news at the top of the hour. now to one must read out of the "washington post" by richard cohen. obama's carter problem. carter's energy program was right on the money. the message was fine, the messenger was awful. this is exactly the case with obama, far more likable than carter yet being cuffed around in a similar manner. being right is nice. convincing others you are is essential. obama's insist steps on realism comes across as pessimism. this is our national character flaw and is what did in carter. ask us for sacrifice and we'll show you the door. >> isn't that fascinating? >> jon meacham, the view of barack obama in two short years, one of the great mess z zer -- messengers to someone richard cohen calls a terrible

messenger. what's the problem? >> the facts are the problem. >> you don't think it has anything to do with his communication skills, what's happening on the ground? >> it's obviously partially related. i don't know how you happy talk your way out of this. if you try to try to happy talk your way out of, as you said earlier, the worst recession since 1933, an endemic ones with inequality, you have, you know, a lot of people would be saying, he's just spinning. i think there is some -- and the white house hates this -- there is some intellectual contempt for the value of a sound bite, of a coherent argument. my view of this is that the sermon on the mount had a lot of sound bites, mr. gorbachev, tear down this wall. >> ted kennedy, a string of sound bites. >> it's okay to boil things down

to a coherent memorable phrase. >> speaking of a phrase, mika brought up a phrase kennedy used. >> because they're talking about asking for sacrifice being translated as pessimism, you asked if it was a communications issue. clearly, kennedy sold sacrifice and sold it right into the history books. >> ask not what your country can do for you, ask what you can do for your country. >> to be fair to obama the economic situation in 1961 is not what it is in 2011. kennedy had the -- to some extent, luxury of being able to appeal -- >> what galvanizes us -- >> the historical parallel of being optimistic in bad times, the only thing we have to fear absolutely is fear itself. the president has nev never -- that's a sound bite. >> that is a sound bite. >> i -- he has never liked the

artifice of politics. talking to the american people, a dangerous thing to do. >> i still have hope, sorry, guys. robert reich standing by in the greenroom. >> you know our man, willie green in south carolina? he sat down with lawrence o'donnell last night. he threw out the theory that jim demint personally started this recession. lawrence will dig into that. plus, the streaker at the obama rally. who is the guy? why did he do it? answers to your pressi ining questions from "morning joe" comes right back.

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have you ever thought about decaf? do you think that would help? yeah. priority mail flat rate shipping starts at just $4.90, only from the postal service. a simpler way to ship. yes, is it time -- >> the "american freak show." >> i love it. >> the book is out as soon as your bookstore opens. they're not quite open here. as you pointed out earlier, pictures of lines outside. >> wow, willie. >> gaga! >> you look at that -- if you're sitting in that room, typing out the book, you don't realize how it will touch people. >> did you ever ever believe an "american freak show" would cause this kind of response? >> no, i didn't. so much like the harry potter books. >> it is. that is amazing. >> it's lighter outside than

when i came in. >> my god! this is the news. this is outside the barns and noble in athens, people fighting over the last books, i'm not proud of this. keep calm. >> keep calm and carry on. >> this is inside, again, i hate to see this. a they broke up the legislation, a brawl broke out as they fought over the last copies. >> wasn't that what happened after fox and friends attacked it. >> i am not proud but i am moved. >> they're throwing the book. >> i know nelson mandela has a book out today but -- >> come on, a great story. >> that's awful! >> like the titanic, you know how it ends. why do i have to go see the titanic? >> you can get the mandela book any time. you know what happened. >> grew up, put in jail, came

out, ended apartheid, freed the people, inspired a world, that's it. >> and you can read those later. a fascinating time in jail. >> they're burning copies -- >> willie is building a mystery. i don't know what's inside that book, i got to read it. >> let's talk about lawrence o'donnell. we love him. >> he had the last word, the democrat in south carolina who came from out of nowhere to win the primary, challenging jim demint, i use the word "challenge" liberally there. let's watch them. >> are you a witch? >> no. first, i want to remind everyone that demint started the recession. >> your nickname in high school, i'm told, was "turtle." does that tell us? where does that come from and does that tell us anything about

how this race might end up? >> demint started the recession, responsible for the recession. >> seriously, alvin, your nickname, "turtle," where did that come from? >> no. >> no? >> like i said, demint started the recession and i'm the best candidate that defines where we're at in this country. >> he tried, lawrence tried. >> let's get to his nicknamed. >> he's focused. >> a focused candidate on message. >> stays on message. demint started the recession. we wanted a sound bite, that's it. demint started the recession. >> he did. >> did you hear about the streaker at the obama rally? >> yeah. >> a 24-year-old arrested streaking. got apparently within 10 feet of the president. he's not in the best of shape. we found out who he is, a 24-year-old from new york city, a young man named juan rodriguez. why did he do it? because a billionaire put up a

challenge on his website offering a million to anyone who would write his name on the website on his chest, get close to the president and shout the name six times. it's unclear whether he will get the million dollar, did he shout six times? at the least, he needs a gym membership. there you go, mika looks confused. >> coming up next, labor secretary robert reich. we're terribly sorry for all of this. we'll be right back. [ female announcer ] imagine the possibilities

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is there any chance that if we do not give the poor and the middle class what they need, that they will gang up together on rich people and take away more from us than we should give them in the meantime? >> that could happen. >> good answer. here with us now former secretary of labor, robert reich, the author of

"aftershock." welcome, good to have you here. >> good to be here, mika. >> are you excited for the next economy? >> excited? >> should we be? in your book, you talk about the next economy. >> here's what worries me. economists talk about agate demand. that means the ability tof consumers to buy all the things the economy could produce at or near full employment. the problem is consumers are still coming out from a huge debt load, still left over, consumers cannot buy a lot of things. they are worried about their savings, they're worried about, well, their jobs. also, they can no longer use their homes as atm machines. so all of that together, and then add in the baby boomers who have to start saving because they lost a great deal in terms of housing prices in the market, you can't come up with a very optimistic picture where we are in the next three years. >> this is systemic.

>> exactly right. this is not a business cycle problem. we don't know in this country how to deal with something that neither business cycle. it's a business cycle. everything that goes down eventually comes up, sort of exactly the opposite of isaac newton's law. here, we have a structural problem so deep, not as deep as the "great depression" but analogous in the sense we are talking about fundamental lack of agate demand, fundamental undermining of consumers and the ability of consumers to buy. consumers are 70% of this economy. we can't rely on exports, they're small. we can't rely on businesses to make new investments because businesses are sitting on $2 trillion of cash. they won't make investments if there are no consumers out there. we have a vicious cycle. . >> so what do we do? republicans arguing for tax cuts, less spending, paul drug

m -- krugman talking about the need for less stimulus spending and there was an article in the on ed about chris christie's tunnel, we don't have the money to build that tunnel but people saying we need to build the tunnel to right the economy. we have to pick our poison right now. if this were a business cycle, you could say pump $2 trillion into the economy, three years from now, the economy grows, we get the revenue, we'll be fine. it's not that simple. >> joe, there are two problems, we tend to mush the two together. one is how to basically deal with that gap between what the economy can produce at full employment and where we are right now. that gap normally, if you understand basic economics 101, that gap will be filled either by giving consumers and average working people tax cuts to have more money in their pockets. i talked about exempting the

first $20,000 of income from the payroll tax and making it up by maybe -- this sound a little bit radical, i'm apologizing in advance but subjecting the incomes over $250,000 to the payroll tax. you have to do something to get money in people's pockets so they can turn around and buy. if you don't do that, we will be here a very very long time. it's not simply a matter -- >> it doesn't come out of nowhere. if you find a way to put it in their pockets, aren't you still dealing with the growing debt? how do you do it? >> that's why i said in this one example i gave you, there are many other examples we could talk about, use -- fill the gap by applying the payroll tax to incomes over $250,000. the fact of the matter is, if you are quite wealthy in this country and somebody in new york doesn't feel wealthy with $250,000, i understand that, most people in this country do, if you are wealthy, you do not spend most of what you have. i mean, that's the definition of

being wealthy, you don't spend, you don't need to spend. we have to get money to the people who are going to spend it. that's the only way we're going to get jobs back. >> i think that 250 level is what's always been kind of a subject of debate. >> you'd like it at $500,000? >> i don't know. >> i think in urban areas, you're on to something. you need to adjust it. i made a lot less money in pensacola, florida and i felt a lot wealthier than -- people in new york or san francisco -- >> you really want the federal government micromanaging where you live? >> i don't know. i want to keep on this conversation a second. it is fascinating. too often we have people screaming on both sides talking about -- you bring up tax cuts, people say, we need to engame in in kensyian spending, tax cuts are kensyian spending. like the idea you gave, an idea

i think a lot of people should debate. i also -- one of the top business leaders in america, one of the three or four powerful most business leaders, what would you do? i'd raise. i could never say this publicly, i'd raise gas tax. i'd raise it large. i'd raise lots of money and i'd encourage people to drive their cars less and i would do exactly what you just said, i would give payroll tax cuts to middle class people. it would immediately do two things. you discourage driving, you'd bring down pollution and you would revv up the economy. >> in other words, you have essentially a carbon tax? >> essentially a carbon tax. >> you use the proceeds from that tax to give it to the middle class working class -- >> instead of what a lot of people are talking about which is raising the gas tax and invest in green technology. >> you have to give me his name.

this is what i have in my book. this is the primary solution i propose in my book. you give me the business leader's name, qt, don't have to do it public. i need to get together. you're right. everybody is shouting at each other right now. >> you'd be shocked. these are the types of solutions. when he said that, i said, i've always been against the gas tax because i think it disproportionately hurts working class people. >> it does. >> if we said we're going to tax you per gallon and go after pie in the sky thing, green technology, which i also want to happen and immediately turn it around and put it back into payroll tax deduction, so you're helping the working class, helping the middle class, helping -- >> planning ahead. >> right. and also creating an incentive for non-carbon based energy. >> let's at least, jon meacham, talk about it and debate it. these are the type of issues, for some reason get strangled.

>> this is election season. what's the chance, seriously, having a serious and respectful discussion about the economy? over the next three weeks, do you think it will happen? impossible. impossible. >> what's the historically analogous moment to the economy right now, 2011, in the american experience? >> the closest annual guy is 1933 and 1934. this is when we're sliding into the "great depression." i don't want to alarm anybody, this is not the get depression. it's similar in the sense a, nobody really knew what to do, b, it wasn't a business cycle, something far more basic. c, wasn't just a matter of the federal reserve board reducing interest rates even if they knew what to do and didn't then. it's much more complicated. you had fdr coming into office, herbert hoover and fdr are at logger heads but both saying what is essentially wrong, which is balance the budget.

if you balance the budget, you're draining money out of the system at a time you have to actually be putting money into the system to stimulate the math. >> what's most scary about that to some extent is not that we're immediately entering '34, '35, '36. we all know we got out of the depression because of the extraordinary burst of industrial energy in this country, because of the war and post war boom. it's very hard to see where that comes from now. >> this is why the analogy is interesting. what did world war ii represent? number one, it represented a huge mobilization of american industry, everybody was back to work. number two, every political faction and party, every ideology had to put aside their ideological fixations, look, we have no choice, we have to mobilize and put everybody to work. this is not an argument for war, god forbid in terms of national mobilization. >> we tried that. >> we do need -- i hope this

happens after the election, we do need to have people come together, stop shouting and say, look, this is not a matter of conservative, liberal name-calling, social list, whatever, this is trying to fix what is fundamentally broken and not like any recession we have seen before. >> how much do you agree with the administration exports, mentioned earlier, can be a way to help bring the economy back? is there a way to expand that? >> not much. we can expand exports a little bit. let's assume china appreciates its currency and means everything we buy from them costs more and everything they buy from us costs less, that would do a little bit. the export sector is relatively small in the united states economy. >> the administration think this is a can grow it and it would be a big engine? >> maybe eventually, eventually, you know, five, 10 years from now, but, look, we are not an economy that is fundamentally dependent on exports, unlike

germany and japan and even china. we are an economy dependent on domestic demand, consumers here. that's not going to change dramatically. the other problem, if everything we buy from abroad costs more, any way you create jobs here, according to that formula, we create jobs by getting poorer. there's no secret to getting jobs creating jobs by getting poorer. if tomorrow we said no minimum wage, no unemployment insurance, everybody has to work who doesn't have a job for a dollar a day, that would be awful but we'd create a lot of jobs. we have to get out of this mindset that says we only need jobs. it's not just jobs, we need jobs that pay good wages and provide good benefits. >> there is the mindset of americans hard to move at this point. everyone is a little down. we have polls that reflect some of that. new cnn poll shows most americans disapprove how both major parties in congress are

handling their jobs. among likely voters, just 32% of the job democratic leaders are doing with only 29% say they approve how republican leaders are handling their duties. neither party has an advantage when it comes to approval, the poll suggests when it comes to the economy, they suggest republicans would move the country in the right direction and comparatively, 41% say democrats would put the u.s. on the right track. >> when i ask you how many seats republicans will pick up, i'm still timid, i'm still around 30, 35. the reason why, a couple reasons why, they've blown some special election races they shouldn't have blown. i don't know how good the infrastructure is. secondly, how is the party this morning with a 29% brand rating -- 29% of america

americans -- 29% of americans like the republican party, how does that party pick up 50 seats, 60 seats? >> i don't remember, jon asked before about a historical analog. i don't ever remember a party on the precipice of taking back power when people thought so little of them. >> 29%. >> within that cnn poll you see 29% approval for the party. >> a bloomberg poll. >> on every issue in the poll, republicans are trusted more than democrats to deal with the major issues. >> i think it shows han absolute, every poll points, mr. secretary, to an absolute lack of trust of both major parties. >> when you have unemployment this high and people this worried about their homes, jobs and their savings, anybody who's an incumbent is under suspicion. why didn't you fix this? unless you really love your income, your own district, your

own congress person, you will be angry and lash out in some possible way. i was there in 1994. i remember the feeling as we saw this storm cloud come over washington. the clinton administration, democrats had both houses of congress, but we still were in a jobless recovery, nowhere nearly as bad as it is today. people just were just so angry, so angry at incumbents, you know, the democrats lost both houses. >> they're so angry at incumbents, they made the irrational decision to elect people like me. >> you have that thing you talk about all the time. >> and meachem, no historical parallels for that. quickly following up on what the secretary said this morning, look what he taught us, i say this all the time, clinton raised taxes in '93. i was a fa aghast.

i campaigned against it. '95, increased spending, said it would wreck the economy, kids would be thrown in the streets. we were both wrong and both right and both wrong. you look back a decade later, you look at the '90s. in '93 and '95, those two acts taken together did pretty damn good job reviving our economy. >> the problem is it's different now. this is a much deeper problem. >> we'll talk about it more. robert reich, stay with us, up next, democrats escalate the fight over alleged foreign campaign donations. we bring in savannah guthrie live. and later, whoopi goldberg will be here. bill karins first. >> once in a while i do something cool. last night, the storm that came through new york showed an

amazing scene out my front window. this is a hailstorm, not the midwest, not oklahoma city, this is brooklyn, new york, 1 to 2 inches of hail cofering the ground, quarter sized hail throughout the borrow, it went right over my house. forget storm chasing, stay at home. forecast today, showers moving out, this system gone this afternoon. a little wet weather left in philly and atlanta city. showers hit and miss this morning, later, the forecast much better. the country looks really nice, the exception, miami to the keys, hurricane paula sending moisture your way and rainy the next two or three days, midwest, looks perfect. speaking of paula, there she is off the coast of mexico. cancun and cozumel will be the problem the next couple of days, not a big storm and not headed to the u.s. we will watch it in case it does anything to surprise us.

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someone from the jerry brown campaign is caught on tape calling meg whitman a wore that rimes with bore. >> we can't say the word on television, it rhymes with bore. >> a bad word that rhymes with snore. >> are these grown-ups? a bad dr. seuss book? how old are you people? is there anyone out there in basic cable land brave enough to use a word that is actually completely legal to say on television? >> if you're running against a woman in a close race, don't call her a whore.

>> a whore? >> a whore. >> i stayed on the non-whore side of that line. >> the non-whore side of the line. slow down there joeesque. you don't have to make up for everybody not saying whore. actually, you know my favorite part of that clip isn't joe scarborough's obvious glee, his cohost, mika brzezinski's obvious disdain. >> there's a little difference there. >> please stop saying the word. i know you're enjoying yourself and you think you're really funny. >> you know, she warned me that morning. she said, stop it, stop it, stop it. i should have stopped it. >> so obvious. >> what's so obvious? >> whatever. >> whatever. >> they're debating tonight. >> thank you for understanding. >> amazingly, this happened like six days ago, brown has not

commented on what he said or heard and tonight, they're having a debate. brown has been hiding from the press and presumably tonight he will have to address it. >> i have a different question about this whole story. does anyone know how the tape was revealed and who revealed it and whether that's legal? >> there's always the next question. >> yeah. what's the deal with that? i believe there's an expectation of privacy. it becomes very -- >> wait, wait. >> i hope that's the case, because if it's not- >> i got a couple voice mails from you. >> if you have kids -- >> i was upset about something and little kate went over and pressed the button on the cell phone -- >> in this day and age, you have to assume, everything you say, even halfway in public -- >> if you don't hang up the phone, i think you're probably fine. >> who released that? he was on the phone with someone. >> probably the union official

whose voice mail left him. >> this is a legitimate question. >> i don't think in this case, if you make the phone call, then you open up the door. if you don't have any reason to believe that somebody is listening in on you, obviously -- >> the law, in terms of the law of privacy in terms of phone conversations simply overheard because you leave the phone open is a complete mishmash. there is absolutely no clarity. no clarity. >> there are some states that actually allow you to record a conversation without giving -- >> if you, again, accidentally leave the phone open -- >> i'm saying, state by state. >> state by state is different. >> that's fascinating. that helps people like me and jerry brown. >> i won't talk about the language, but -- >> no doubt about it, joe moon

beam, they called him j joe -- speaking of leaving drunk messages. >> i know, i got one this morning. white house correspondent host of msnbc's daily rundown, savannah guthrie. we don't want to go there. >> what's going on today? >> well, the white house is definitely in campaign mode. the white house will have a rally tonight on the campus of george washington university. he was in miami last night at a couple of fund raisers for congressional races down there. one thing i noticed, he didn't renew the attack on the money, the idea these republican groups are funneling money into republican campaigns, didn't mention the chamber of commerce. i just got off the phone with a senior official who said it's not because they're dropping the argument, but more because he shortened his speech. we will hear that argument again and from vice president biden issuing the challenge, show me

the money, that you don't use foreign dues to funnel money into the campaigns at the u.s. the chamber says we do not. that's that. this is one of the areas the white house is concentrating on a lot. we will see the president on the campaign trail. will be in boston this weekend, a joint event with the first lady in ohio on sunday among other things. >> he has a bunch of events already announced, you listed some of them. national town hall meetings. do we expect his schedule between now and november 2nd will be filled out or is that it? >> reporter: it's practically wall to wall campaigning. a big west coast swing next week. he will be in california. he has a town hall on mtvb., b.e.t. and oregon thursday. if you block out the schedule between now and november 2nd, not 100% campaigning but campaigning. >> do you get a sense this white house just in general does not

enjoy politics the way, say, bill clinton, just loved the game, the way ronald reagan got the game, do they just not like getting out there and politicking? >> i don't think they like it right now. i think they liked it a lot when they were winning. my sense of talking to some folks is that they are rocked back on their heels because -- i think this is a point you made before, this happens to democrats more than republicans because they expect the press to be one of their constituents. when the press turns on them, it's particularly bitter. republicans don't expect the press to be with them, democrats kind of do, particularly given the mccain palin -- i read a book about this -- drama. my sense is that they really, really are depressed. >> i don't think they've ever -- >> i don't ever use -- i use that word advisedly.

>> i'm sure there's some level of quote-unquote depression. when the economy is this bad whoever is in power is defensive. you have to be. how can you go out to the country and say it's because the republicans were recalcitrant, didn't allow us to do what we want to do or because of george w. bush. you can't do that now. you own this economy. when the economy is as bad as it is, you have to be this defensive, it's no fun to go out there. >> to another point, defensiveness you saw in the white house briefing rooms early on. bill clinton went from being the man of hope to the press pretty much adored, to the day he was inaugurated, became the schmuck from arkansas we will -- >> the schmuck from arkansas, man of hope to the schmuck from arkansas. >> it has to be very hard whether it's bill clinton or barack obama to be lauded throughout campaigns and the second they get in there, the press reverts to its old form,

which is we're skeptical and we will beat the hell out of you. >> not only the press. the republican party, the minute you are in the white house, i think democrats have done it as well, but look what happened to bill clinton and look what happened to barack obama, republicans start really going after you, in a way that this country has not seen. a kind of viciousness this country has not seen. certainly, up until bill clinton was there. >> we talk about this all the time, wrote about it in "politico" last week, in 1992 -- '93, january 20th, '93, the second clinton is sworn in, the republican party, i'm part of, tried to delegitimize him. eight years later, the second george w. bush was inaugurated, democrats tried to de-legit mize him, when barack obama was inaugurated, republicans tried to de-legit mize him. >> one of the biggest mistakes

obama made was assuming the republicans would come over, they would cooperate. >> we have to break that cycle. >> all right. a republican will be elected one day. >> i'm with you 100%. >> mr. secretary, thank you. you have book events today? >> i do. >> where will you be in houston? >> in houston tonight and san francisco. today in houston and san francisco. how will i do that? >> i don't know. we've done that. >> a private jet. >> when we come back, chairman of the clinton -- ♪

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you have to realize that at the end of the day, a nuclear weapon in that country's hands is not just israel's problem or america's problem, it is the world's problem. it could lead to an armageddon. it could lead to that world war iii that could decimate so much of this planet. >> all right. welcome back to "morning joe." that was sarah palin talking about the implications of iran getting its hands on a nuclear weapon. here with us now, former chairman of the joint chiefs of staff, retired general hough shelton, without hesitation, the odyssey of an american warrior. very god have you here this morning. thank you for coming.

>> general, the commander in chief you worked with the most, obviously, bill clinton, what type of marks do you give him? >> give him top marks all the way. as i indicated in the book, give the same to president bush. different characters, different personalities, but both, from a military standpoint, very effective commander in chiefs. >> bill clinton off to a rocky start. a lot of people in the military did not trust him. a lot of military brass, when i was in congress, would come in and mutter that they didn't think he got it. he found his footing halfway through his term, didn't he? >> he really did. he has the greatest respect and admiration for men and women in uniform. i reveal a couple of -- actually three behind the scenes with president clinton i think will show the american people a different side of this president and how deeply he cared for the men and women -- >> give us an example. >> when we had a terrible

tragedy at ft. bragg and had a number of soldiers burned and killed and visited them in the hospital. they said some had a zero chance. he went up with no press and had to change clothes each time because of the risk of infection. he went in and stood there and he played for each one of these individuals and he came out. i revealed more about the incident in the book. >> you could sense it the guy genuinely cared about them? >> you can genuinely sense the respect he has for men and women in uniform. >> a guy who doesn't fare as well in the book, don rumsfeld. tell us why don rumsfeld was a disastrous secretary of defense. >> joe, i really like don rumsfeld from a personal standpoint. when it came to his leadership style, the way he went about it, he did not like the fact goldwater nichols made him the

principle military advisor. he kind of wanted to be from my perspective, military and policy advisor. he did not like the increased responsibilities of joint chiefs and consequently, tried to diminish the role they had been given. >> did that role get diminished by the end of the bush term? >> from my perspective, it did. >> significantly? >> significantly. i think under the current administration under secretary gate, it started coming back to its right position intended by goldwater nichols. >> until your book came out. >> you see in the book, an incredible span, served under a lot of presidents and seen war up close and personal. how do you evaluate this president, president obama's relationship with the military today, from enlisted to joint chiefs, how is he faring? >> i think president obama is faring very well in that regard. we have great men and women in

uniform, great military leadership. they all understand the president is the commander in chief. i think respect the decisions he makes because they know he has to consider more than just the military. it's diplomatic, political, informational, you name it. he's got lots of things on his shoulders, but i'd say almost every time the military is going to prevail if they have good rational for why it's important from a military perspective to do it their way or in a way that would not put men and women's lives at stake unnecessarily. they understand the risks associated. >> it's been nine years almost to the week the air war in afghanistan began. when it began, did you expect nine years on we would be where we are now? >> i was hopeful we could wrap it up a little quicker than that. i think we got off to a great start, overwhelmed the taliban and made them disperse, al qaeda had to leave the country. when we went into iraq in 2003,

in typical washington fashion, we do one thing at a time very very well. when we start trying to do two, one falls to second priority, normally off the screen. that's what happened in afghanistan. it wasn't until stan mcchrystal went in and said, we have to have more troops if we're going to stabilize this area and get the karzai government a chance to rule. that's what happened to us. >> general, when barack obama became president, one of the reasons i was hopeful regarding foreign policy is jim jones. great guy, dr. brzezinski's always said great things about him and other people that know him said the same thing. he seemed to be marringmarginal from the first day in office. were you disappointed to see him leave? >> i was very disappointed. jim jones was a great marine, great commandant, make a great

national security advisor and also a good friend along the way. he is very solid and he reasons things out very well. always placed a lot of confidence in jim jones' analysis of what was going on. i regretted to see him leave. i don't know his successor. i think jim jones' wisdom will be missed. >> i agree with you. what will americans learn? what has the big idea, and without hesitation? >> i hope that what the americans will learn is kind of what goes on behind the scenes in a lot of military operations. i was the joint task force commander going into haiti. we cover that in great detail how we worked with the secretary of defense, bill perry j, along with president clinton and go into detail of what goes on behind the scenes with president clinton and president bush. it's very frank and candidly written in my style. i try not to use disparaging

words about anyone. there will be some harmed ba because the truth will be revealed. >> general hugh shelton. thank you very much. "without hesitation." >> thank you for your service. thank you for having me. when we come back, nfl football analyst, ron jaworski. can i say that? exposes how much the game has changed since his playing days, right back. >> he doesn't have the moustache anymore. wrds ♪ client comes in and they have a box. and inside that box is their financial life. people wake up and realize i better start doing something. we open up that box. we organize it. and we make decisions. we really are here to help you. they look back and think, "wow. i never thought i could do this." but we've actually done it. [ male announcer ] visit ameriprise.com and put a confident retirement more within reach.

quick count there, the throw is intercepted, sliding underneath, touchdown, game-winner! >> joe, you're shocked. >> the mighty casey striking out. i have never seen him throw an

interception in a clutch time except the end of every green bay packer season. he's warming up for the preseason. >> getting ready. >> the second round. >> that was sthe vikings-jets game last night. one man who got done calling that game two hours ago, former nfl great quarterback analyst for espn's monday night football, ron "jaws" -- >> say it right. yaw-orski. >> only mika can get away with that. "games that changed the game," the evolution of the nfl in seven sundays. >> what a game. talk about drama, brett farve involved in a football game, anything can happen, amazing evening, rain, hail, we had it all, outstanding finish. >> how good are jets and how bad are vikings? >> going into the game, we knew

the jets are good, run the ball as well as anyone. mark sanchez is evolving as a rock solid nfl quarterback. when you can run the football and stop the run, you are in the hunt. it will take time. randy moss has been there three days. once the combination of brett farve and randy moss clicks like it did last night, it was dramatic at the end. i've always loved the jets, the first super bowl i remember, '69. but in the off-season, ju just -- first of all, you don't do that in the nfl and second, you don't do that in new york city. looks like they're backing it up. >> rex ryan is rex ryan. he's not going to change. that's why we all embraced rex ryan. all these other coaches move their lips and say nothing. when rex ryan is talking,

everyone pays attention because he's giving us something. he's a genuine guy and everyone around him loves to play for him. >> let's talk about the book. seven sundays thatchanged the game. >> probably a lot of sundays. and the guys in nfl films, we talk football. look at tape and talk football. everyone talking about what's changed in the game year-to-year. we went back and researched changes in the game, not necessarily the biggest games, about people. a football book. that's kind of our record, what we spun. it's about leadership and people that think outside the box and have a vision. >> my suspense is killing me. >> i just mentioned rex ryan and buddy ryan was his dad, the '46 defense and the mission was to beat the hell out of the quarterback. that hasn't changed at all. the game was the chicago bears, '85 defense against dallas cowboys and won 44-0, to the

chicago bears and pummeled the cowboy quarterbacks, particularly danny white. that game changed how defense was played. people were very aggressive rather than passive. >> pretty good guys playing in the defense. you talk a lot about a guy named sid gillman, someone casual fans may not know. >> you think of today's game, the nfl is becoming a passing league. sid gillman, with the san diego chargers spread the field, started throwing balls down the field, sideline to sideline and end scozone to end zone an then began to run traps. and he revolutionized the passing game as we see it in today's national football league. >> how is the health of the national football league. we know there's talks of strikes, it's america's game, making loads of money, how is it doing? >> the numbers of viewers are through the roof. i wouldn't be surprised if last

night's game may be the highest rated game on cable ever. all kinds of subplots and stars. before i left the stadium last night, about 1:30, john gruden and the others said bring some of those "morning joe" cups back. i'm putting you on the spot. >> they watch the show? >> everybody watches. >> we need about five mugs. >> and when i said i'm coming, that's great, we all watch it in the morning. we're all sleep deprived from monday night football. >> give me another game that changed? >> bill belichick's game, super bowl game when they beat the rams. everyone talks about defense getting after the quarterback. in that game, bill belichick got after marshall fall and re-routed him. >> belichick and his coaches were shocked they won that game. >> they weren't. bill's never shocked.

>> if you could change one thing about the league today, what would it be? >> i see the violence in the game right now, you just wish there was some way you could protect these players more. i suffered 32 concussions in my playing days. you think i was born like this? but i would like to see somehow, some way the players -- roger goodell, commissioner, is doing an outstanding job to protect the players. maybe through technology, commitment, you could protect the head trauma. >> since your time, it was rough and tough but they've gotten so much faster, so much bigger, so much more lethal. that's the thing is that scares the hell out of me for a football fan for life. you just see those guys flying around and it is not natural for a human body to be hit like that. >> it is a violent game. sometimes gout 300-pound guys running at full speed. they bend the wrong way and that's what the game is about. >> we'll be right back. ♪ [ upbeat instrumental ]

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♪ today is a special day. out now, willie geist's book -- >> i've got to say, the nbc security people are deploying at

this time right now. but willie, i know that your fans are going to get pretty ugly. >> freak show. >> 6th avenue is blocked up all the way down to 40th. >> i've sent pea stizzas out to crowd. >> i don't know where in the world you would get a concept for this book. jaws? >> this is great. he's got a book, i've got a book. it's america. >> the real competition, jaws say, is justin bieber. he has a book out. we need to squash him like a grape. >> bieber fever. >> willie, american freak show has already been held by pu pulitzer prize winner in its genre. what is the genre ? >> it's satire. that's your genre. so the characters are real. >> is that a sport? >> the characters are real, the stories are fake.

every chapter, 19 chapter, is a fictional situation. your first chapter is sarah palin giving her inauguration address after she's been elected president. it is in 2013. she refuses to give it at the capitol because that's what washington insiders do. she does it inside on wwe monday night raw in front of an audience at the ice palace in tampa. >> i can see it. >> there is a lot of awesome stuff in this book. i don't want to give too much away. >> he's actually read it. >> i recommend the index, which is the list of people whose names aren't actually in the book. >> normally the index is superfluous. you've already read the names in the book. >> another one you'll like, joe, is blago. i got a hold of -- by that i mean made up -- the entire fbi catalog of his transcripts. the more mundane conversations but equally profane.

for example, he's ordering out little caesar's pizza. it gets ugly. then he sams the home shopping network, he wants the pillow sham thrown in for free. offers her to become the head of the state lottery commission. >> good lord! >> this is a classic. >> a hamlet for our times. >> some have said. bernie madoff, celebrity roast in hell. when he's arrived in hell, some have suggested he might go there, if such a place exists. they always welcome the newcomer with a roast. paul pott is the roast master down at the airport radisson down there in the john wayne gasey banquet room. they just roast it up. lee harvey oswald is there. >> willie's making up index. were you chained down for your book, jaws. >> it took three years to get

this done. i may be a little slower -- >> well, we have a job. you just kind of bounced in on the weekends. >> you have a very elegant list of people who have given you these blushes. when joe and i try to get a blush -- >> i didn't want to insult you by having to lie and say you enjoyed reading this book. i thought mark would be a better liar. >> brian williams of "nbc nightly news." he got his dad -- oddly, it is a negative. >> they're all negative. >> mine is very positive. "american freak show." willie geist's one part twain, one part carrot top, one part jekyll, one part heckle. >> "american freak show" on sale now. whoopi goldberg is next on "morning joe." >> is she lost? >> this is exciting! [ female announcer ] any hair shines in the spotlight.

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grandpa says he hates americans with disabilities act. i'm telling you, this is a choice and can you not let the people of kentucky be plagued by these ads that are playing to people's fears and anger and they're totally fact-free and they're funded by secret anonymous donors. if they weren't ashamed of what they were doing, they'd tell you who they are. >> all right. welcome back to "morning joe." the top of the hour. here with us now, along with jon meacham, willie geist, joe

scarborough and me, co-host of "the view," whoopi goldberg, the author of "is it just me? or is it nuts out there?" i sense a theme. only w.h.o. hchwhoopi can do thl it off. she writes about one of our favorite topics. >> what's that. >> political instakt. >> once when you heard a politician say it was time to roll up our sleeves, it meant to get down to business. now it is for the fight. what the hell is going on? senators flipping people off, congressman heckling the president, shouting that he lies, political negativity has become toxic. we couldn't agree with you more. >> you're preaching to the choir there. it is crazy! >> it is crazy. but it's all of us here. you know? that's the scary part, it's not just the politicians, it's also human beings just interacting. you know? if you go to a sporting event and listen to how people are

talking to players and how they're talking to the coaches -- i'm talking about little kids. i'm not even talking about the kids. it's just kind of freaky. >> what happened? when did we become so rude? >> internet. no? >> i think it is, in part, because of the internet just because we've lost the ability to have conversations with people because we just tap it out on a machine. but i think it's just been this very slow, strange evolution that we've been going through. a and i don't know why. >> i feel like, especially as a mother, it is so hard to teach children today nuance and guardrails and what's right to say what's wrong to say, how far you go, how much you share. and everyone shares everything. these reality shows, on the internet, blogging without thinking. >> it's terrible. >> i don't know about the next generation in terms of how we actually get the point through because everybody's just throwing it all out there now. >> i mean the point is getting through to people because you

remember four, five years ago, we had all these young people putting nak pictures of themselves in pools and -- >> four, five years ago? let's just get this out right here. how about -- >> i'm sorry. i don't know that that's brett. i don't know that that's him. all it is is -- >> it could be. we're not sure. >> i've never seen -- i'm sorry. one on one. that could be you! >> actually, it was willie. that was his -- >> what are you talking about? >> favre. >> i know. >> she says she has not seen him individually. she may have seen him in a group but not individually. >> pretty much i saw was just of the member. >> members only. >> scarborough. >> you just don't know. i want to continue on this technology though. one of the things you talk about in the book, one of your pet peeves is one of my pet peeves.

people talking on cell phones in restaurants, through dinners. kids talking. you see a family of four? everybody's on their own little device. >> i haven't been to friendly's for a while. >> i haven't either. i just threw that out. >> it's just part of this whole idea that people don't know how to converse. and we don't talk to the kids so we can't be surprised that they're not talking to us. everything they do, they don't know how to write with a pen because it is all on the computer. >> in text speak. >> text speak. and we can't read it. and we're a little pissy. i'm not going to lie. i'm a little mad when i see it and i don't know what it says, i'm like i speak english. i went to school. you know? this is the new world. >> pulitzer prize winner jon meacham, is this not a classic in its genre? >> it is a classic of the genre. we know what genre that is, which is unlike willie. i have a question for you. i have a new platform.

i want to see if you'll sign on. i don't think we should write anything about anyone that we do not have the courage to say to someone's face. >> well, yeah, man. it's all about consequences. right? stand up for what you believe in. and if you believe what you're saying, don't hide behind a moniker on a blog. don't hide behind anything. >> or even just write it. i think. >> yeah, that would be all right. >> because if you don't have the courage of your convictions to have that conversation with someone, then don't. >> do you mean in general? or specifically. >> if you're going to say something about the president of the united states, you should have the capacity to, willingness to say it. >> i agree. anonymous bloggers and all these responses, they all should have names and that nobody should be able to do -- >> i made a mistake. i've done that. >> with respect to the book, "is it just me?" some things you don't like. i think willie and i were talking about this. i don't know if you know this or

not, willie and i car pool down from schenectady every day and he wears cologne. it's sickening. you say people in car pools that wear so much cologne that it actually makes your eyes bleed. this is something that bothers you, too. explain. >> i know my mom taught me, if you're going to put on perfume, you put a little here and you put a little bit here. people tend to do this, like they're about to go into an oven. >> it's the axe body spray thing now. teenagers -- all over the body. >> there are women who should know better. i get in the elevator with them and you just go, come on! really? you don't smell this? everybody else is -- it's freaking you out. >> another thing that bothers you, complete strangers going up -- willie and i do this also in schenectady on weekends. we try to find pregnant women and we just go up and rug their belly. you say that's an irritant, too.

strangers going up and rub your belly. >> if somebody walked up and squeezed your nuts, would you be pissed? joe scarborough, i forgot who i was talking to. sometimes yes, sometimes no. >> willie, let's break it down. >> i have no problem. >> but you know, it's like -- squeezes somebody's breasts. just walking up to them and squeezing -- >> that is rude. that is very rude to do. >> absolutely the same. >> look. all these new rules -- hold on. it's rude to go up and squeeze -- touch a woman's breasts. >> if you don't know her. i'm just saying. >> joe was in congress. congress is a whole different thing. >> this book is education and. it's not just funny. i'm learning things, willie's learning things. >> don't be nasty to the psa people. tsa people. >> yes! that's one of my irritants. it's not their fault. >> it's not. but come on, if you know that you're only supposed to bring

this much, and that it is going to be a hassle if you bring more, then why bring more? why set yourself up when you know you don't have to? >> take off the shoes. we all know it is coming. >> yeah! come on. you snow. >> is it okay if we like -- if people are rude to flight attendants on a long flight, is it okay for us to just go up and punch them. >> what are you talking about? >> people that are rude to flight attendants. >> these are not new. this is actually what we grew up with. you know? be responsible for what you're doing. be on time. because it makes everyone's life easier. it is just common sense stuff. but you know -- >> it's courtesy. >> well, yeah! you know? >> i love this, role models who have disappointed us. there is a long list here. i don't see your name on it. do you have a favorite? >> i don't have a favorite. let me see. >> did you even write this chapter? >> what?

you think i'm gonna know everything in the book? no, i'm not you. >> lucky for you. >> yeah. i think that folks were very -- i'd give you an example. they always say that myly cyrus is a role model. you know, this is a girl who's growing up and she's doing her thing and she's no longer 8 or 9 or 10 or 11, so she's in a different role. let her grow up. you don't like what she's doing in don't let your kid watch but don't make her responsible for your disappointment. it's just me. >> miley does? >> yeah. >> i think we might disagree. >> what? you think that she should stay 7 because it makes everybody else feel bet sfter? >> no. but when her audience is 7 -- >> which audience are you talking about? >> the audience that watches the show that she goes on. >> my daughter. >> and rides the pole -- >> but is she riding around on

the bed on her show, the show that your kids are watching? >> no, no. we're talking about this -- what award show was that? nickelodeon, teen show, that's geared toward 10, 11, 12-year-olds. when she goes on an ice cream truck that happens to have a stripper's pole. >> does your 11-year-old know -- 7. 7-year-old. know it is a stripper pole? >> no. >> well what do they think it is? >> a lot of people that don't have parents that stay on top of their kids like we do. >> right. okay. >> we had linda mcmahon on the air yesterday about her business with the wrestling and we talked about eminem and the profanity in his music, although he doesn't allow it in his house, and along the lines of this. i just do think there is a responsibility to the product that you put out there and the audience that you attract and it would be nice if she thought about it. >> let me tell you, i don't think that you can be responsible for anything except what you're doing. now if she's not doing that on

hannah montana, then i think she's allowed to do her other self. but you have to -- now this is where kids and parents come in. and unfortunately, most parents would rather you, the artist, be responsible for everything that their kids are looking at. now if your kids don't know what a stripper pole is, it doesn't say stripper pole to them. if she jumped up, look at the videos they're looking at. with the exception of dora. dora doesn't do that. >> dora the explorer. >> spongebob. but let's bring up wonder pets again. >> the thing is though, whoopi, i think we probably agree, it depends on where she does her act. if she does her act on -- >> yes, i agree. >> on like teen awards that you know are geared toward 9 to 12 year-olds, because 18 year-olds are actually out doing things, we've got a problem with that. but if she goes on mtv and it's age-specific, that's fine. i'm not shocked by anything she

does. do what you want to do. just don't put it on a channel that's geared towards kids. >> did your kid know what that pole was? that's what i'm saying. if -- we as adults know everything. you know, so we as adults, oh, there's a pole there, that must be a stripper pole an she's doing her thing. but the kid who's watching it's going wow, look at her, she's rubbing around that pole. they don't know until you tell them there's something wrong with her doing that, they don't know. >> it's official. we've spoken too much about miley cyrus. we're going to agree with you. i want to talk about your children's book. >> yes. >> i'm going to get that for my 7-year-old so long as there are no stripper poles coming out of like desks on the -- >> they really work. >> tell us about your children's book. >> "sugar plum ballerinas." i just wanted to write a book for little girls that looked kind of like my grandkids and i named them after my granddaughters and i named the couple of boys in there after my

grandson. they're fun and they're sweet and they're a whole bunch of little girls whose mothers want them to be ballerinas but they're like skateboarders and roller bladers. they just do all kinds of stuff and they've become friends at miss debbie's ballet school and i like them because they're little girls. they're funny and they have little girl problems. you snow but they are a band of girls who hang out. >> the kids are going to love that. >> and they're not mean to each other. >> how old are your grandkids? >> 21. 15 and 12. >> i have a 12-year-old. that's the best. >> let's talk about "the view." i was fortunate enough to sit in whether you were gone. >> yeah. >> and we don't have scripts here. we just get on and talk. i thought we were the only show that did that. but "the view," i love that you just go there, pick up topics you want to talk about, and you

talk. there's no formula. it's just people who like each other, who talk. >> yeah. yeah. it's -- you know, it's what i always hoped i'd be part of if i had to do what i'm doing. i used to have a talk show that was just me. but it's kind of okay to have other people around. but i'm crabby. i'm just crabby. i get cranky so i have to -- and i have to be sort of an adult. because i have to moderate, try to -- you know. i'm the wrong person to give the gig to but i'll take it. >> i don't know about that. >> let me say, it's become a very civil place compared to what it used to be. what about the day in, day out, day in, day out? is that tough for you? >> it's new for me. it's kind of hard. i've never had a job, a 9:00 to 5:00 job before. >> you got to be there the same time, same place every day. >> yeah. and that's where you go every day. it's not like on a movie where you're in a different location, you're doing different things.

this is like, oh, there's my room again. it's just like -- oh, and there's everybody. okay. >> that's a nice way to put it. >> the hours aren't bad, that's for sure. >> no, i have to say, it's probably one of the best gigs in tv. yeah. >> you guys are very chummy on the air but what's it like backstage? you're just at each other's throats? you just hate each other deeply? >> it's kind of funny. i would never ask the three of you guys that. i would never say you guys -- >> you may. >> no, but it's a woman thing. >> no, i was kidding. >> but it's kind of funny. >> no, i was kidding. >> but most people do ask that question. they say, well what's it really like? do you guys like each other? it's like what do you mean? yeah. >> it is definite lay woman thing. >> can you tell you like each other. >> we're not going to be sleeping together or we hang. >> not that there's anything wrong with that. >> there's a line there. you got to be careful not to cross. >> mika and i -- >> yes.

okay. kidding. >> willie, jon meacham -- >> i've got some trivia. you heard about egot? >> oh, yeah. >> tracy morgan has it on 30 rock. he's got the big pendant. emmy, grammy, oscar, tony. that's his goal as a performer. there are three people on the face of the earth who have actually achieved this. make it four. liza minelli, bauer ra streisand, katherine hepburn and whoopi goldberg. >> i think also rita moreno. >> chris, you're fired. >> i think rita has it. yeah. >> are they all on the manhattanle? from they're on the third floor in my house where i can go up and visit if i want to but no one else can see them unless i take them up there. >> so it is a -- >> it's kind of like bragging. you know?

it is a little brag ggy to have them all sitting on the mantel. >> willie has "american freak show" all over his house. >> you have a pulitzer, right? >> i do. >> he has it in his pocket. >> are you going to win a pulitzer, willie? >> well, there's some early buzz, yeah. >> one other thing because you are obviously multi-dimensional in your platforms, you got a movie out. opens november the 5th. >> yes. >> how did you do that? wow. >> it's called "for colored girls who have considered suicide when the rainbow's not enough." it was a pulitzer prize winning play many moons ago on broadway. it's become a movie now done by -- my brain just went -- >> tyler perry. >> tyler perry. see, menopause gets you and it's like -- >> you're fine. >> it's great.

i'm -- i'm very happy with it and i think he's happy with it. very different from what he normally does. and i'm not a very nice person. my character is like cracked crazy. not crack from drugs but just she's cracked. and she's not pleasant. so she's a little freaky to me. >> you enjoy doing that role, stepping into that role if. >> i was glad to be in a movie. i have to admit. i thought i didn't want to do any more. but i really had a good time and i sort of went back and remembered what it was like and why i loved doing it. because it was always fun. then i started making so much do dough, it became about how much dough i was making and no fun. so i needed to stop for a while andy. i kind of tippy-toed, waded into the water. >> you've done all of these things. you've succeeded at the highest levels. of all the things you've done as an artist, what's the most rewarding, what's the most fun? >> you know what?

it's too hard a question. there's been too many things. >> can you think of a moment through your career where you look back and go, you know what? that was good. that was good. >> you know what? when i did "the lion king," the cartoon, my granddaughter who's turning 21 now was like 5 or something. i was so proud. you know, i took her with me, we walked on the red carpet and she was in the theater with me. i sat her on my lap and we're watching. you know, i play a kind of hyena who's not all the way good. >> not all the way good. that's a good way to put it. >> and she turned to me with this little round head and she looked like this, said "you're not very nice in this, granny!" i said, wow! i said but i get better. i get better. by the end of it, she was like, all right, granny, it's okay but you weren't very nice in the beginning. you know? the fact that she felt comfortable enough to say i don't like this but you redeemed

yourself made me feel like i was doing okay with kids. that's i think why i've written the four kids' books. because children seem to get me in a way adults -- well, you guys get me so maybe you're just kids, too. >> we got to go back to one thing before we let her go. explain the great cover. what's happening on the cover? we didn't explain it. >> well, the cover, it's the last -- the bathroom is the last bastion of just me. you know? of each of us as an individual. that's the last place can you go where no one is supposed to bother you. and this is happened to me probably three or four times and recently when i was in atlantic city. >> what? >> i'm doing what i'm supposed to be doing. >> minding your own business. >> and a hand came up and said, would you give me an autograph, whoopi?

i was like come on! come on. what are you doing over there? because i'm over here taking care of business and i don't have time to write anything and she got mad at me. the woman got annoyed. >> you make some jokes, and it is funny, but i think it is the key social issue for the next generation, privacy, civility, nuance. >> yeah. >> also, the irony, willie, jon meacham was thinking about doing that exact shot for his andrew jackson book. >> don't listen to him. >> let me look at this list. >> andrew jackson. whoopi would have had to have gone back to the drawing board. >> i appreciate it. >> it happened a lot. >> i'm not surprised. >> she's got a movie, a children's book, this new book, "is it just me?" and she's of course host of "the view." whoopi goldberg showing her range. thank you so much.

>> you are right, mika, this book, "is it just me? or is it nuts out there?" it's fun. it's an important message on civility. >> did joe do a good job when he filled in for you? >> she was on vacation. >> oh, right. >> shooting the movie. >> can't wait to see that. >> long title. i got my fingers crossed. thanks, guys. >> come back. >> november 5th. >> november 5th. yes. >> come back when the movie comes out. really nice to see you. >> thank you very much. >> say hi to everybody. >> i will. this is nice digs over here. >> it's okay. it's okay. >> great place. we put up basketball goals. >> whoopi goldberg, everyone. thanks. let's go to bill karins now for a quick check on the forecast. bill? >> now i understand whyvy to sit over here. all five of you have written books. i have not. let's talk about what i did do last night, that was film an impressive hailstorm out my front window. never seen anything like it outside my window before. this was in balloon, new york, of all places. almost looked like kansas city

or oklahoma city. this is the same area that got hit by a tornado three weeks ago. one to two inches of hail was covering the ground. this was the same storm that significantly delayed that game at the meadowlands between the jets and vikings. that storm is long gone now. we aren't looking at any airport delays. they're all green across the board. temperatures a little cooler than yesterday but the rain will slide out. we'll be partly cloudy, even some sunshine during the day from philly to new york. forecast for much of the country looks really nice today, very warm in chicago, kansas city and dallas. thunderstorms though for miami and new orleans. we also have hurricanes, all of that though not a threat to the u.s. there is staying down near cuba or cancun. if you're heading to either of those locations, weather will be a little rough over the next couple days. you're watching "morning joe" brewed by starbucks. etfs? exchange traded funds? don't give me just ten or twenty to choose from. come on. td ameritrade introduces commission-free etfs

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someone from the jerry brown campaign is caught on tape calling meg whitman a word that rhymes with "bore." >> we can't say the word on television. it rhymes with war. >> a bad word that rhymes with snore. >> is this a bad dr. seuss book? how old are you people? is there anything anybody out there in basic cable land brave enough to use a word that is actually completely legal to say on television? >> if you running against a woman in a close race, don't call her a whore. >> a whore. >> whore. >> i stayed on the non-whore side of the line. >> the non-whore side of the

line. >> slow down there, joey s. you don't have to make up for everybody not saying whore. actually, you know my favorite part of that clip isn't joe scarborough's obvious glee, it is his co-host, mika brzezinski's obvious disdain. >> there is a little difference there. >> will you stop saying the word? i know you're enjoying this and think you're really funny. >> could mika -- could she look any nicer? we're splendid in a canary yellow ensemble while he is in his mohis most buttafuco fleece. the only way i can see this couple making sense visually would be in the cab of his tow truck after she broke down on the way to see her horse race in the kentucky derby or promoting her book, "well i never!"

that's her book, "well i never." >> that is funny stuff. hey, we've got a couple of e-mails from the nbc news bureau. you read yours first. yours is serious. >> i asked the question about who leaked the voice mail that had the jerry brown aide -- >> saying that awful word that rhymes with snore. yeah. >> okay. it was leaked to the "l.a. times" by the police union. apparently some say to embarrass brown. whitman has promised to exempt police pensions from cuts. brown will not. apparently jerry brown is protesting that it might not be legal. >> this is from our friend, mick, at the nbc bureau. jim miklaszewski. joe, in the early 1980s, several years after i had covered the cowboys, i stood next to tom landry on the practice field and told him i didn't remember the players being so big.

landry turned very serious and said, "the problem is they're all so much faster. when they come at each other with that size and speed, i can't watch. i have to look away." >> this is serious. >> it really is. if you look at 300-pound linemen that can run a 4.6 or 4.6 40, the collisions are lethal. >> you stand on the sideline, those are small car accidents and you have to turn away. >> you talk to every college player, no matter how good they are, that go into the nfl, they're stunned by the speed and size. ♪

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welcome back to "morning joe." a live look at the top of the rock in new york city. kind after hazy, foggy morning. time now though, joe, for business before the bell. >> let's go to cnbc's international superstar, erin burnett. live at new york stock exchange. erin, what is the climate down there today? >> are you guys looking at me or are you looking at a weird thing right there? >> i have no idea. >> you hear me, right? >> crazy is as crazy does. >> vision, it says. >> i've got to say, mika has some competition this morning. in the crazy races. >> i'm on camera now?

>> three, two, one -- >> hole on a second. thank you, erin. go. you've been on the air, erin. >> are you guys looking at me, is all i need to know. >> yes! >> zoom in on his eyeball right now. okay. markets are lower across the board around the world. oil report is out. it's very long but the bottom line is this. opec, the oil cartel's meeting this week an they say that demand for oil is going up. that means prices could keep going up. obviously we're mere $82 a barrel. up 6% over the past month. all that tough news. the other big story, guys, which is really worth talking about, google. $6 billion apparently to expand into wind farms off the east coast of the united states and they're going to launch a price index to compete with the government on consumer prices. so i don't know what google is anymore but maybe they don't know either.

>> you know what that song is, erin? >> i'm very confused. i see me now! >> i see me now. >> so i asked chris half-way through to turn on jefferson airplane's "white rabbit." we just think it is appropriate. >> i usually get that look. here's the thing -- i see you in your little fleece. and today i saw something strange. >> okay, just stop. we're good. let's do shots some time soon. you know, hains brought in some weird tasting thing this morning. i don't know what it was. >> please take her off the air. >> erin, we love you. you are an international superstar. but you're a little crazy today. [ wind howling ]

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if you want to have medical care for the elderly, or education for our children, you can't do it by running up trillions of dollars of debt here. that is my beef. my beef is this -- that we have to cut. but i don't come out and say, oh, well, we're spending too much, what we have to do is cut medicare, we want to abolish medicare. you're absolutely distorting my views. >> all right. i tell you what. he really does engage well every night. >> it's awesome. >> go ahead. >> that was congressman ron paul making atlantic magazine's 2010 list of brave thinkers, americans risking their

fortunes, fame and lives for big change. james, give us your favorite example of this. >> from this issue? one of my favorite examples, as mika said, the idea is to spotlight people who are taking some sort of big risk. it is kind of an unusual group because we aren't really celebrating success. some of these ideas may not work out. for example, there is a guy on list this year named lonnie johnson. third of six kids growing up in mobile, alabama. a self-invented inventor, sort after throwback to ben franklin. he's invented a lot of stuff, including a super soaker squirt dirt. he's trying to convert solar energy into electricity. if it works it could totally revolutionize the way we get our power but we don't know yet if it is going to work. >> you also have ron paul on that list. why? >> there are a couple people -- we only started doing this two years ago. a few people are getting

lifetime achievement awards still. ron paul qualifies. here's a guy, as you know, hasn't made himself terribly popular with his own colleagues over the years. he's been repeatedly denied subcommittee chairmanships by the republicans because he's clung to tenaciously to a set of ideas about debt and the money supply, which actually now are suddenly very popular. this year the guy finds himself looking behind and discovering he is at the head after parade. the tea party folks have kind of latched on to him. as someone who's applying kind of the intellectual architecture for that movement. >> you read his quotes from 2002, 2003, he predicted the crash. i mean predicted exactly how it was going to come down. in a hearing i think it was september 10th, 2003. stunning. kevin costner, now i don't know i would put kevin costner and "water world" the same sentence, putting him on any list. but you guys are done that. why? >> here's a guy, in 1989 exxon

valdez spill takes place and he wonders why it is we don't have some means of separating oil from water. he plows $20 million of his own money into devising such a mechanism with his brother who's a scientist, works on it for many years, develops the device, goes to all the major oil companies to try to get them to invest in it and they all turn him down saying that, well, we're never going to see an environmental disaster like that again. "it's just not going to happen." so then we get the bp spill and bp bought 32 of these machines. turned out to be a great idea. but he took a big gamble on it for a long time to try to turn it into a reality. maybe because of "water world." i don't know. >> james, willie geist here. interesting one on the list at number two, an nba owner who kind of threw himself in the middle of the immigration debate. >> yeah. a guy named robert sarver, owner of the phoenix suns. when arizona passed that tough

immigration law this year, he sends his team out on to the court with their uniforms emblazoned with los suns. he said he took a lot of criticism for mixing sports and politics. he says that's kind of naive. sports and politics are always mixed together. you know, how do you think stadiums get built in the first place? but he says, most owners are concerned with the bottom line, their finances. and his dad told him you're supposed to vote with your heart and not your wale lelet. this issue mattered to him. >> hey, thank you so much, james. >> "the atlantic's" james bennett. >> quickly, jon meacham, you have a theory. every pulitzer prize winner has a theory. what's your big new idea? >> well, don't know how big it is but it is an idea. i think that as important as economic inequality is, is a gap between the politically active and the politically dependent.

we have a class of people now whose incomes, whose livelihoods, are dependent on the perpetuation of conflict as opposed to the resolution of problems. and whether it is television networks, or bloggers, or political partisan structures, there is something different about people whose actual livings are dependent on continuing a fight as opposed to finding a solution. >> there is an entire class of those people. >> i think that that is going to be as important as the gap between rich and poor, as we go forward. because if we would try to find something new about partisanship between jefferson and hamilton, it was tough. but these are people whose livings depend -- ratings, hits, money -- >> books sold. >> -- books sold. >> websites visited. >> there are metrics that are fed by conflict, not by resolution. >> jon meacham, thank you.

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with us now, editor of "foreign affairs" magazine, gideon rose. also author of "how wars end." what lessons do we learn about the mistakes america's made over the past 50, 60 years? >> basically we always think about war as beating up the bad guys, fighting the enemy.

that's an important part of it but it is only half the story. it is not over until you construct some kind of sustainable political settlement on the other end. that's what keeps the enemy from coming back. that's the part we never think about until it is too late when you realize, oh, god, we got bag problem on our hands. >> in the case of afghanistan, almost a decade into it, we still don't have an exit strategy. >> exactly. and the fact is that we don't really have an exit strategy from europe or japan either. we realized in iraq, oh, my god, it is not just enough to get saddam out, we got to build something there. and the same thing is true in afghanistan. so the real question is not just how we're going toby the taliban but what's going to take the taliban's place and how are they going to exist on their own. >> it is a redefinition of war if some ways, isn't it? >> basically war is all about politics as well as about fighting. we don't thilike to think about that. >> one of the truths about world war ii, churchill had no interest in post-war planning. he used to say we'll tau take care of that, can't talk about cooking the meal until you have

your rabbit. how do you overcome that, when politicians are so consumed? general shelton was here talking about washington does one thing well, they don't do two things well. what's the way in which you can get incredibly busy engaged people to think ahead? >> when we talked about iraq we talked about the post-war stuff as phase four. we can deal with phase one, two and three first and deal with phase four if the end. i think if you just reverse the numbers, that would be great. think about like a countdown. phase one is the settlement at the end of the day. here's where you want to end up. all the stuff that comes before that is simply a countdown to get there. if you think about it that way you reverse your ordering so that you say, okay, what we're doing now, how does that play in to what happens later. that's focusing you on the real thing which is the end game instead of just thinking let's beat up the bad guys, then figure out what to do next. >> that's like colin powell always talked about, you don't

get into war until you know how to get out. >> if the president read your book and applied what you wrote going forward, what would he do? >> it is not that the generals are trying to trap him into long-term engagement in afghanistan. the real voice is do you think stabilizing afghanistan is crucial to u.s. interests. if it is then you got to do what's necessary to stay there. if not you can begin to get out. but the idea -- he's like saying, lord make me chaste but not yet. he wants to surge but then wants to get out quickly. that's really half and half. it is not going to work. >> so is afghanistan's stability vital to u.s. -- directly vital to u.s. national security interests? >> this is the key question. you have to balance basically the costs of staying versus the risks of leaving. at this point the costs seem fairly high and the risks seem fairly low. but the minute he pulled out, the next time there was a terrorist attack, people are going to go screaming like skrady. so the question comes, do you think you can build something on the kabul side, on the afghanistan side, that will

really last when we leave. that's a really tough question. >> the general still believed, mark, that it is going to be a decade. if we really want to do this right, we have to stay there for another decade. there is not the political will to stay there another two years. >> it is you have been we're not having the debate nationally in the context of this election. >> people are not invested. >> i don't see where we make the time line. >> thank you very much. the book, "how wars end." up next, what did we learn today? john is a ford and lincoln mercury service technician. very smart. we were just discussing the circumstances by which a person can find himself in four separate places at one time. i didn't really say that. but people come in here for tires, brakes, batteries and oil changes. so it's possible? yes. oh that's brilliant. buy with confidence. thanks to our low price tire guarantee. so, with everything you need in one convenient place why would you go to four separate places?

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it's time to talk about, well, "american freak show." willie, congratulations, my man. it is a big day for the country. >> we have our live camera from the athens greek bureau. >> it's getting ugly there. >> i just want to urge calm. i know you're going to get the book but there is no need to riot in the streets of europe. >> how do you say keep calm and carry on in greek? >> willie's also doing a 10:00 a.m. web chat. >> i'm going online! the way you look at life, love and god. >> this country. even as the rest of the world falls apart in hysteria over the shortage of copies of "american freak show," willie geist is