politicians who don't like other politicians to go out and get themselves a gun. that's ""hardball" for now.ç thanks for being with us. "countdown" with keith olbermann starts right now. witch of these stories will we be talking about? tomorrow, no angle about it. tonight, o'donnell versus coons last night and today. >> it is by the constitution i'll defind and by the constitution i'll make all of my decisions. >> i'm interesting whether it's the constitution passed by the founders, the constitution of 1920, 1930, the constitution of 1975. and which supreme court decision do you most object to? >> i'm very sorry. right off the top of my head, i know there are a lot, but i'll put it up on my website, i promise you.

>> how could you miss that, after this. >> what other supreme court decisions do you disagree with? >> well, let's see. there's -- a plot to buy america as dnc chair man kaine pre -- >> i am donate 10g$,000 to the chamber of commerce now. >> the unseen fie nan a sear of the tea party, why david coke never even heard of the tea party except for this part on tape. >> the largest tea party in the nation on april 15th. >> tea and coke with mat tabbai. the most african-american voting districts in the state. and view to a rhetorical kill. >> all the news and commentary

now on "countdown." good evening for new york. this is thursday, october 14. i have sean hannity in my pockets and i can go on his show and raise money by attacking you guys, christine o'donnell speaking to gop insiders last week in washington, according to two of them, as sourced by howard fineman in a story breaking tonight atç "the huffington post." our fifth story, howard joins us with more in a moment. the revelation coming after o'donnell's second debate in as many days with her democratic opponent chris coons. after today she went on hanty's radio show where she could be heard raising money by attacking those guys. 19 days left, 19 points down and unable to name a supreme court

decision with which she disagrees. o'donnell and koons lunching together this afternoon in wilmington before theriotry club debate. the content of that momentarily. first greg sergeant's plum line now reporting in advance of last night's delaware debate she was schooled by lobbyist randy schuman and the web editor michael goldfarb. those would be the same who worked for the 2008 mccain presidential campaign. that's randy scheunemann pictured next to palin. when the lights went out, o'donnell claimed her opponent would dramatically raise their taxes. koons responded he's for extending the bush tax cuts for the overwhelming majority of the americans. o'donnell was eager to bring up her skit show celebrity. >> there's been lots of discussion in the national media

about things my opponent has said or done that i frankly think are distractions from the core ins that delawareans ask both of us about. >> you're just jealous you were not on "saturday night live." >> i'm dying to say who's going to claim that. >> she's not a witch but she's thrilled to portray one on tv. she said four years ago she heard the audible voice of god encouraging her to run for office, insisting the constitution, not her faith would guide her as a senator. >> regardless of my personal faith, when i go down to washington, d.c., it is the constitution that i will defend and it is by the constitution that i will make all of my decisions and that will be the standard bear for every piece of legislation that i will vote on. >> i'm interesteded in hearing whether it's éhd constitution as passed by the founders, the constitution of 19 to, 1930, the constitution of 1975, the constitution of today because to

me protecting a woman's right to choose, protecting reproductive freedom and making sure that we've got on-on-the record ms. o'donne o'donnell's views like prayer, abortion, evolution, these are important. these are relevant to her service in the united states senate, what sort of judges she would confirm, what sort of issues she would take up. i'm someone who stands firmly behind the constitution as it stands today. >> o'donnell did not pick her constitution of choice and on her social views she dodged even when wolf asked about monkeys. >> do you believe evolution is a myth? >> i believe that the local -- i was talking about what a local school taught, and that should be taught -- that should be decided on the local community. but, please let me respond to what he just said. >> i'd like you to respond but please answer the question. do you believe evolution is a myth. >> local schools should make that decision and i made that

remark -- >> what do you believe. >> what i believe is irrelevant. what i will support in washington, d.c., is the ability for the local school system to decide what is taught in their -- in their classrooms. >> a candidate in a debate just said, quote, what i believe is irrelevant. asked about the supreme court and apparently palins people forgot to show her the interview. >> has the opportunity to determine in a way the make-up of that court, so what opinions of late that have come from our high court do you most object to? >> oh, gosh. give me a specific one, i'm sorry. >> actually i can't because i need you to tell me which ones you object to. >> i'm very sorry. right off the top of my head, i know that there are a lot, but i'll put it up on my website, i'll promise you. >> by the way, as of this hour,

it's not on her website either. today o'donnell and koons picking up where they left off. this time they're allowed to ask questions directly of one other. koons going after social conservatism, o'donnell is trying to suppress. >> you are long on opposing o woman's right to choose even in those cases where a woman is a victim of rape or incest. where do you really stand on the constitutionality of roe versus wade and on the issue of abortion in all cases. >> you can recognize if you're intellectual honest that it's a violation of the tenth amendment so i support overturning roe versus wade for that reason. >> finally asked today to say something nice about one another o'donnell said koons gave good answers to questions. mr. koons was given two minutes for his response. >> my opponent christine o'donnell is someone who has shown remarkable persistence. she's run for the united states senate three times in the past five years and her passionate

commitment to the conservative social causes that she's championed through her adult life i respect. i think that come bin nation of passion and persistence has served her well. >> thank you. >> you didn't use your whole two minutes. you had extra time. >> as promised let's call in howard fineman. howard, good evening. >> hi, keith. >> the debates in a moment but first the story. i have sean hanty in my pocket and i can go on the show and raise money to attack you guys. it might be a little tacky to thumb your nose at your own party but at least you'd be ahead. is there any logic to doing it when you're an outsider and you're down by 19 with 19 to play? >> well, there's logic to her, i mean this is the way she's thought from the beginning. she's run against the party. i don't think she each wanted mike castle's endorsement. she complained he didn't endorse her. i don't think she wanted it. i also think she's trying to

make the best of a bad situation, keith, because it's not just the party officials here but it's the unofficial parties. karl rove was running some operations. i checked in after these impressive debate performances. they haven't changed their mind about supporting her. she's not getting money from the big shots. she's using sean hannity, i've got him in my pocket, i can go on his show and run against you to raise money. they said, fine, go ahead. if you can bring it down within a few points maybe we can support you directly but they don't expect that toç happen. >> the social headline today, is the ap, indeed all of us missing the point here? is the content of the debates at all relevant to christine o'donnell's supporters and is the outcome of the election even relevant to the long-term collision teen odom from christine o'donnell's viewpoint

right now? >> i think in terms of her support support supporters, no. this is sort of dog whistle politics to her. they see her, they know her, they believe her, they believe she was evasive on purpose but they believe she's with them on that, same with abortion. they believe in her. in her heart she's with them. as for, you know, her long-range goal in life, i think she -- she thinks, based on people i know who have spoken to her, that, you know, she's got a shot here and she's going to pull it off. and i've got to say strictly on theatrics, not on substance, okay, but strictly on theatrics, at least last night, chris coons, the democrat, who's way ahead took the line of not responding to her, not calling her out, not getting specific in terms of saying what inaccuracies that christine o'donnell was putting forth. you know, he's taking the risk that it's not going to matter. it might not, but it's risky.

>> is -- does she believe truly that she has a chance of winning this thing with some of these obvious gaffes that would have been vieweded by people who didn't have an opinion of her going into either of these debates? >> i don't know how realistic it is obviously. not to know a single supreme court case is devastating. you know, it's an embarrassment beyond words. did notice between last night's debate and today she did manage to dredge up a ref e rens to the tenth amendment regarding constitutional law. so there's that. it's christian j worthy to most people and it's christian j worthy to most independent voters in delaware and a most moderate republicans in delaware which is why car rover who's runni running things behind the scenes is staying away from her and continues to stay away from her. >> if she was preppeded by those who prepped sarah palin, how

could they have missed it?ç couldn't they have taught her the words plessy v ferguson? it's three words. write it on your palm. it worked for mama. >> one of the thinks is everyone on the outside is knocking on the door and we're dredging up all kinds of very interesting characters from the periphery of american politics is you're going to get people who are almost proud and assert their pride in the lack of knowledge of the political system. only in america would we ever pretend to argue that ignorance is somehow a qualification for higher office, but in this year at this time with a lot of people it is. how many of them are going to get swept up in this tide is the question we've been asking, you know, all fall. we're still going to see. in her case, you know, i said from the beginning i think it's unlikely and the polls show it's

still very unlikely. >> ultimately why was she debating and contrast to why sharron angle would be debating. >> well, in christine o'donnell's case you're a good cornell man. you know the good book, i've been down so long it seems like up to me. she's been debating, because, believe it or not, she thought she needed the exposure. if people thought of her as anything they thought of her as a character on "saturday night live," they thought of her as an ignorant deadbeat witch. if that's your starting point, it can't get any worse unless you know any supreme court cases. >> sig nor rant sort of unprepare unprepared witch. thank you as always. the head of the democratic national committee tim kaine

given a hyperbole criticism. he has compared an active live at this hour political event, virtually ignored by broadcast television new and most of the newspapers, magazines to watergate and remember the network and new york times ignoreded watergate too. the plot, to buy america thickens next. last year. (oof). i had a bum knee that needed surgery. but it got complicated, because i had an old injury. so i wanted a doctor who had done this before. and unitedhealthcare's database helped me find a surgeon. you know you can't have great legs, if you don't have good knees. we're 78,000 people looking out for 70 million americans. that's health in numbers. unitedhealthcare. my professor at berkeley asked me if i wanted to change the world. i said "sure." "well, let's grow some algae." and that's what started it. exxonmobil and synthetic genomics have built a new facility to identify the most productive strains of algae.

algae are amazing little critters. they secrete oil, which we could turn into biofuels. they also absorb co2. we're hoping to supplement the fuels that we use in our vehicles, and to do this at a large enough scale to someday help meet the world's energy demands.

one of the biggest political process stories since watergate, the chairman of the democratic national committee raises that alarm in the plot to buy america. in the last quarter century he -- last quarter rather he turns out to be the only politician to donate money to the ohio congressional candidate who celebrated. matt tabbai joins us. planning to send monitors to watchç polling places in democratic african-american precincts. and don't think it hasn't been a slice of heaven because it hasn't. hosts of "the view" walked off

rather than sit next to billo. five months ago. we are building a website by ourselves. announcer: there's an easier way. create your own small-business site with intuit websites. just choose a style that fits your business and customize, publish and get found in three easy steps. sweet. all from just $4.99 a month, get a 30-day free trial at intuit.com. on your next business trip,

pack your marriott rewards visa card. get triple points every time you use your card at marriott. apply now and earn 22,500 bonus points when you use your card and enjoy a free night stay. so, before you know it, work time becomes well-deserved downtime. apply now at marriott.com/freenightstay. you've got staying power. the revelation that the chamber of commerce pumping money into attack ads funded by companies and american millionaires has got the right wing on the run today frantic to ensure that their tate party followers are in no way backed by people screwing the american middle class. how do we know this? because in our fourth story tonight, a, the new poll shows

americans do not trust these shadowy ads. b, they want to know who's standing in the shadows. and, c, because the voice of the assuring his listeners that the chamber is ordinary folks even though in his same breath he says how little he knows about the chamber. tim kaine compared explosion of secret funding in american campaign ads to watergate, another story that much of the mainstream media ignored until the scope of the scandal dal was made clear through individual reporters. but this one seems to be moving a little faster. we told you last night of a poll taken up through sunday in which 47% said support from anonymous business would make them less likely to vote for a candidate. a new poll taken yesterday finds 56% less likely to vote for candidates were backed by secret business spending. on cue, glenn beck today assured his listeners that the chambers is just a group of downtown main

street mom and pop. >> we'rer this do it today or tomorrow. i want the biggest fund-raising day for the chamber of commerce. i've never donated to the chamber of commerce. i don't even know if you can. i don't know if you have to be somebody paying dues. i don't know. >> it does appear that you can, yes. >> it does? >> yes. >> it does? >> yes. >> i would like to make this the biggest fund-raising day chamber's history. i would like you to donate to the chamber of commerce if you're as sick as i am of this lot. do you know what the chamber is? the chamber is a group of businessmen, and aren't most of the businesses under 100 people that are at -- members of the people? >> yes, i believe so.

>> these are people who have under 100 employees for the most part. these are your local downtown businesses. >> if you're in chicago and the tribune is downtown. back with us once more, thanks again for your time, sir. >> thank you, keith. >> that watergate comparison, that might strike some people as hyperbolic. what do you think? >> let's remember what watergate was. people remember there was a burglary, but people forget there were peopleç funneling che checks. there was an $89,000 check from an oilman and the corporate money was flowing through that. i think that's what tim kaine is talking about is the influence of corporate money in this election is something that's not being discussed and is a huge political story. texas oil money, for instance, right now is flowing in to california to defeat its clean energy law. we have a reporter out there. you've reported on this. they're trying to subvert california's lot. in addition to prop 23, you've

got karl rove's group, the chamber of commerce, you've got newt gingrich's group, club for growth, fox news. all of these corporate interests trying to divert democracy with their huge amounts of money and deep pockets and i think that's what tim kaine's getting at. it's not being reported and we're trying to dig at it. >> mr. beck says this is a mere average of downtown businesses. they claim to have only 300,000 businesses who are members. most of those might actually be small businesses by actual definition, but that doesn't speak to who controls the group and coordinates the money raising, does it? >> yeah. glenn beck is a $50 million small business. i do applaud him. he came out and said he's going to give a $10,000 check to chamber. who else is going to join glenn beck and announce they are too giving to the chamber of commerce? that would be a wonderful event.

i think the glenn beck story is high lighting is the fact he's got a relationship with the chamber. it goes back. he's appeared at events with tom donahue and while he pretends to be this populous hero, in fact, he's standing up with the chamber in outsourcing jobs and reducing tax cuts for the rich, they would benefit glenn beck personally. >> the assumption one would have there's some sort of stupidity factor, some sort of conflation between the local chambers that are very often the way mr. beck err e roanously described the national one, the u.s. group, that he probably wasn't mistaking the one for the other, just sort of letting that confusion continue to sit there like it's the hastings on hudson, new york, chamber of commerce? >> right. people don't realize the chambers in their towns areç different than the u.s. chambers. some give dues. some are closely aligned. some are not. there were local chambers of commerce in new york, in

seattle, in san jose that peeled off and publicly distanced themselves from the chamber because they thought the chamber was too radicalized. in fact, the u.s. chamber of course is an rnc. i think for most they don't want to participate in that. >> your follow-up report on progress regarding what kind of agenda the chamber members have when it comes to outsourcing, can you talk a little bit about what you found? >> yes. yesterday we found out there are companies are foreign-based giving money to the chamber of commerce. we dug through 84 companies and identified seven who are based abroad who are proud and explicitly describe the value of outsourcing that that's what they want and that's their agenda and that's why they give money to the chamber of commerce because they're for outsourcing. tom donahue has talked about that. he's the president and ceo of the chamber of commerce. he said there's a great value in outsourcing so the chamber's

agenda is clear and i think that's why the foreign money is particularly important. i think it puts the candidates in a box quite interestingly. people like bob gibbs in ohio. we had a reporter out in there in ohio, people like that who their agendas have to come clean. they've been talking about government and jos, but now the chamber is pulling cloak off their agenda, therefore interests. faiz shakir, thank you for reporting on this. the koch brother who's never been to a tea party event on tape at one, congratulating them.

congressional candidate dressed in a nazi outfit, that and the only politician who donated to him in the last quarter is john boehner. drawing right from that headline, boehner, o'donnell, and iott. that's the lyin', the witch, and the wardrobe. i'm not a witch. that's my odd ball. of course she's a witch. she has sean hannity in her back pocket. we begin with dos and don't. do jog. that's good for your health. don't jog naked. that's not good for your health because like this guy, you may

get tased. he was running with only a pair of swimming goggles on. he refused to stop or slow down. this flesh flash was taken to the hospital for evaluation and then taken into custody. maybe he can perfect his naked running form in the big house. in sports with this past sunday's battle between the raiders and the chargers their pulled off a tough win against the san diegans. let's check in and see how maturely they take the loss. [ crying ] >> we were a field go away. >> i hate you, raiders! [ crying ] >> me too. >> don't do that, kids. the raiders feed off the tears of kiddiesç and eun i corns. the naked brett favre

scandal, write-down town. right in his photographal area. even though the vikings aren't beating many team this year at least he has a good chance of beating him out with the top prize at the film festival. time -- marches on. never had a thing to do with the tea party movement said david koch except when he was at the meeting. many congratulated them and it's on tape.

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children will be worse off. they run the oil and chemical industry. they have been quietly promoting their own business interests by investing in a right-wing ideological effort of their own creation. central and funding the tea party movement. david koch previously denied having anything to do with the tea party. to quote him i've anyone been to a tea party event, no one representing a tee party has ever even a approached me. it will be interesting to see how he explains this. he presides over a summit while various tea party leaders tell him all about vh%i organizational success. >> we have led the largest tea party in the state. >> the largest tea party in the nation on april 15th. >> turns out mr. koch is pleased with the results he orchestrated for the organization he never heard of. >> this is a phenomenal success in my judgment.

800,000 activists from nothing five years ago. this is a remarkable achievement, and we're being effective in so many different ways. >> so many ways. like leading the charge to repeal health care reform and continue the climate change denial crusade. that video comes from a new documentary, astro tuv wars. and for its part koch industries has also repeatedly denied any ties to the tea part mievment. no funds has been provided by them. egregious falsehood juxtaposed with new details. mr. iott's third quarter disclosures revealing an interesting donor list including one mr. john boehner, the minority leader silent iott's organization, viking even as

number two. his pac donated it making mr. boehner the only lawmaker to give mr. iott money last quarter. in his defense it the money was given before the whole nazi dress-up thing was reported. a boehner spokesman told politico boehner would make no effort to recoup the money. and in california's 11th district fading hope for the incumbent mcnerney. not just the department of education, all public schools. david harmar, h-a-r-m-e-r, antle named, his wife happens to be a substitute teacher, he wants to return it back to the way things were. you know, yellow fever, slavery, a little education for women and minorities. joining me now, contributing

editopç matt taibbi. good to see you. >> good to see you. >> besides a lie, why does it matter? >> well, think it does matter. when i go to tea party events when i bring up these things, when i say what about the koch brothers i always get flat denials. this is a purely grassroots movement, nothing do with that. i think it will penetrate some of the pea party. a few people will be persuaded by this. on the other hand you have to remember for a lot of these people reality is kind of optional. a lot of these are the same people who still think that saddam hussein was behind 9/11 and they're just going to believe what they wasn't to believe and i don't think it's going to have that huge an impact. >> is that the missing thing that we're looking for constantly and trying to analyze it? do you have any insight into the fundamental disconnect that their voters desperately fear -- they fear about their kids

future, serious problems facing millions of americans and they are happily campaigning and almost adoring candidates who explicitly campaign on things that will totally undermine that future specifically for their group. >> yeah, i mean it's tragic. i don't totally root against the tea party. i think america needs real challenges to authority even if they're wrong-headed sometimes. you know, people in power need to be not so complaisant and i think it would be a good thing if this were a real good outsider move nnlt that sought to reduce spending and did all those things. the reality of it is these people are just going to turn and around give their votes back to the same party that got them upset in the first place and it's just going to turn into an endless cycle of non-action, incompetence, despair, and more anger. it's a terrible situation. >> so you disagree with what was said on the show. get out. no. obviously your point is taken on the theoretical level.

it's a good thing at all times. but when it became a bad thing, was there a genesis moment? is there a plot line at which we can point to a date or an individual where somebody said we don't have to enslave these saps? if we sell this correctly, they will come into the cages by themselves. >> yeah. think that moment came afterç e famous rick santelli rant. think, you know, the republican party was in disarray at that moment. they had just been beaten by barack obama. all the mainstream republican candidates were really fleeing, and then suddenly there was this explosion of real political energy that they saw out there on the internet and on the straights, and it's true. you know, the tea party is a real grassroots movement in some respects, and i think there are people like dick army and karl rove and the koch brothers who saw this and said we have to get a piece of this and corral it. i think they've done it, effectively created the movement. >> i have to ask you about mr. boehner and mr. iott in ohio.

one can understand the regional sympathies there. but if that were a democrat and nancy pelosi had donated war, wouldn't the right be talking about this every day -- every hour until election day? >> sure. it would be like the new black panther thing. it would be on tv every day for five months. but, you know, the important thing about this is it speaks to the situation of republican candidates in general. i mean they're really just going after waver wire pickups that point. it's like the oakland raiders of politics and it just speaks to the kind of fringe candidates like howard fineman was saying before. the people on the periphery are now at the forefront of the party. >> zach miller is going to be all over you, especially that fantasy football reference. matt taibbi, good to see you as always. the latest mark kirk scandal in illinois. republicans sending in goon squads to protect the votes in african-american presignatures.

why does that not add up? this is candidate rich whitney. which letter could you remove to name the dumbest typo in history? they've done it in chicago. rachel will unravel what actually happened today. [ male announcer ] wouldn't it be cool if cars didn't need keys? if you could talk to them with this? if you turbocharged this little guy? if old water bottles became new seats? if you never bought another gallon of gas?

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republican mark kirk caught secretly on tape. he was going to send people in to make sure none of the votes are tampered with. that's next. first get out your pitchforks and torches. he's out selling his latest bold fresh piece of crap book, blah, blah, blah. the man is allowed to sell a book but this time on "the view" he asserted the islamic center should not be built because, quote, muslims killed us on 9/11. that's when for hosts joy behar

and whoopi goldberg, exit stage left to the thunderous applause of the audience. >> i don't want to sit here. i don't want to sit here. >> you're outraged about -- [ applause ] >> lost in çthat, of course, i the fact that bill lowe without the script is presents as another fox news bigot. now he's just partying gretchen carlson and glenn beck over there. john raes, looking for, quote, hickey types. >> you do not negotiate with people like -- i have a hard

time pronouncing this -- armadejohn, arma, armadingo. help me. remember, i'm not a career politician. right now any nuclear weapon launched from north korea can hit alaska and california. we're sitting with the only technology that works. it's laser technology. we need 1,000 laser systems put in the sky and we need it right now. 1,000 laser systems put in the sky will cost $20 billion. $20 billion. that's what i call a stimulus. >> he added, git 'r done. how far in the sky? like 100 feet or what, mr. nuclear? his lack of understanding of the star wars would embarrass ronald reagan but did you notice the

screw of of the name ahmadinejad? he called kirk west virginia senator clark goodman goodwin. he called steven choo two different asian sounding name. referred to governor joe manchin governor soprano and couldn't rep the name previous ly isn't t to the supreme court. sonia sotomayor. that suggests his middle name is versatility. actually we don't know what his middle name is. he only goes by john r.raes. maybe it's rockç ahmadinejad. the name of the green party candidate for the governor of illinois is spelled correctly on the initial display listing all the candidates but after you vote his name coming up misspelleded and it can't be

fixed before election day. so half of the wards where the typo pops up 'peers in african-american districts. it's rich whitney. the "n" is missing so his name is spelled rich whitey. in chicago's board elections today's worst persons in the world. yellowbook has always been good for business. but these days you need more than the book. you need website development, 1-on-1 marketing advice, search-engine marketing, and direct mail.

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if there is one thing karl rove understands it's the difference between voter fraud and election fraud. voter fraud is when someone votes twice or uses someone

else's name to vote. it's fraud by a voter or defrauding a voter out of his vote. it's a minor crime because it only involves one vote. it's also relatively rare, except if you listen to people who commit election fraud. that ice a big crime because it's not about one person's vote. it's about stealing entire elections. one way to do it is to keep an entire group of people away from the polls. how do you do that? usually by claiming you're defending against voter fraud. that's the method karl rove used when heç pressured them to bri bogus cases and canned the ones who refused. guess what the republicans say is a big problem in this election? that's right. voter fraud. the issue coming to a head in illinois after mark kirk was recorded without his knowledge talking about protecting against voter fraud in areas that are predominantly minority and predominantly it.net caratic. now, why would mr. kirk want to protect mostly democratic voters

from having their vote stolen? he does express concern that these areas are vulnerable. it's not clear whether he means the areas are vulnerable to him. >> i have now funded the largest voter-integrity program for 15 years for the state of illinois. these are lawyers and other people that will be deployed in key, vulnerable precincts. for example, south and west side of chicago, rockford, metro east, where the other side might be tempted to jigger the numbers somewhat. >> democrats candidate alexi gianoullias says it's disgusting, illegal, and smarks of car rover politics that illinois voters are sick of. how exactly? they've been soliciting to get

the voter-integrity plots. today was hans von marv cover ski a former -- bush justice department, his specialty was protecting the country from voter fraud. his specialty was poor people, minorities, people who happened to vote democratic like when he got thousands of legal maryland voters thrown out because of discrepancies because of their personal info and how their info had been entered in government databa databases and how he imposed a georgia law similar to a poll tax especially after his own staff warned it would discriminate against black voters. with us tonight formerly theç precouncil for president obama. thanks for your time, sir. >> thank you, keith.

>> can you course correct me or at least flesh out the distinction that i drew there between voter fraud on the one hand and election fraud on the other? >> you've got it just about right. voter fraud involves individual voter, somebody who might be voting twice, somebody who might be coming in under a different address. and there's never been a systemic -- proof of systemic voter fraud. in fact the non-part sen center said there's more of a chance of getting hit by lightning. >> could you analyze mr. kirk's reference in that tape to the minority precincts. he called them vulnerable precincts. what does he mean by that? vulnerable to who and why? >> we'd love to know because it's one of the most cynical things we've ever heard and we asked him to explain what vulnerable is. he's chosen precincts that are heavily african-american, low income, unemployeded, the most vulnerable people there and people who are vulnerable to

being intimidated, intimidated by people in suits saying, oh, if you have a parking ticket you're going to be arrested on the spot if you vote, if you show the wrong registration or you make a mistake you're going to be arrested. it is outrages what mr. kirk has done. >> so what are democrats doing about this now that the taped evidence is extant? >> we're not going to let it happen. we've sent out letters to there three attorneys general in illinois, and the states attorneys and county that mr. kirk has targeted. we've sen out letters to election commissions as well. we're also gathering our own army of volunteers to help out, man polls to make sure every voter has a chance to cast their ballot. we can use volunteers. we want people to come in and help and bring integrity with the election. >> when republicans have bun

caught doing this, they call it a game, what's the harm in stealing the other guy's mascot on game day? is that your experience or do mr. van spovkoskyç treating it like ooh a game? >> it's not a game. >> when he first came to illinois he lied about his identity. he stole opposing candidate's letterhead and put on outan invitation to homeless people promising them free food and drink and he was caught three years later and he called it a youthful prarng. i was not a youthful prank to the homeless people or the constitutional right to cast their vote has been taken away by this intimidation. >> michael.gov, giannoulias