book too. >> yeah. tebow is copying me quite frankly. as any college football announcer will tell you, five minutes with that young man, ll change ur life. i can't wait to read the book. >> rose says -- reading american freak show my mom sent it yesterday with a note saying willie sent it yesterday saying he needs more time to expand his fan base and worldwide audience. >> i can't agree with you more. let's start a letter writing campaign. one more, what have you got? >> virginia says you need to rename the show way too late because i can't go to bed at night until i watched "way too early." >> regina is from florida. you have an excuse, if it's 2:30. here, if you're not in bed by 5:30, deeper problems. "morning joe" starts right now. >> i hope i'm judged a success.

i'm going to be dead, matt, when they finally figure it out. i'm comfortable knowing i gave it my all, that i love america, and i know it was an honor to serve. >> all right. welcome to "morning joe." it is 6:00 on the east coast. good times. good times. tuesday, november 9th with us on set. >> good times. >> yeah, good times. msnbc contributor, mike barnicle. we also have -- and i'm wearing his shoes, the chairman of deutsche, incorporated, donny deutche. >> i'm wearing mike's shoes. >> we don't want to know what you're wearing of mike's, it's all so awkward. and harold ford junior and willie is walking in eating an apple, like seriously, what am i doing wrong?

you all are so laid back. >> we're just waiting for instructions, mom. >> ever had a starbucks croissant? >> no. it's bad for you. >> really good. >> all right. let's go there. let's talk about food. if we could, since i have the chair for the morning. i commend the cnbc evening news for leading with a story about children's meals at fast-food restaurants across the country being complete crap, a major percentage of them are just plain bad for kids. and they have movies and toys and all these marketing tie-ins to reel in the kids to make them want more and parents buy them. >> that's breaking news. >> i like a newscast that will make that an important story. >> one of the states has a new law they can't give out toys with food over 600 calories. >> 'd make the contention right now and love any scientist tell

me otherwise, it is addictive. we should go there in this country. >> which brings us back to the flaky croissant from starbucks, which is really tasty. >> was it good? >> it was very good. >> we have starbucks coffee, though. >> what's that, chris? >> joe from chicago. >> my gosh. joe is all wired up. i'm just doing the show. how are you? >> willie, they love us here. i come out once a year, because in the fall i come to chicago and summer, nantucket and barnicle knows this, i cannot tell you the joy i bring to the kids here in the city by the bay. big d. they love me here. what i do is i get all this money and come here and raise money all year and buy an mcdonald's happy meal and we go

down to the lake and the joy, these kids open up these toys and the joy and food is great. >> food wrappers is all over the beach. that's a party. >> that's why we pay taxes. >> we need to start doing this in every major city. >> it's about the look on a child's face, when you give them the first happy meal with a toy in it. makes it worth it. >> get rid of the plastic, throw it into the lake. it's just great, i'm telling you. >> a year later, that child has three chins. that's what happens. >> the difference between you and willie and you and me and you and barnicle is you judge people by their appearances, we judge people by the content of their character. >> i actually judge people by their health and judge this country by its health. >> that's horrible. that's horrible. >> we're not healthy and have to pay for it on every level, all these important things you talk about going on in washington, and president of national

foreign relations coming in, where do we stand in the world? fat. that's where we stand and we won't be able to fight our wars and not live long productive lives. >> mika, joe takes the kids to the mcdonald's on the miracle mile, and then they walk over to lake michigan. >> they walk! they do. they love us here on shaky town. it's exciting, mike barnicle. the first time you have a 5-year-old or 6-year-old kid there, you jump past the happy meal and give them the first bite of the big marc and special sauce goes all over the sides of their face, it's almost like you're looking at heaven, looking at the face of heaven. >> and their gallon soda they're holding with two hands because it's so heavy? >> every time i see a kid like that with barbecue sauce from the new barbecue sandwich, i regret the fact norman rockwell is no longer with us.

>> how are they feeling about the mcrib? >> they love the mcrib. >> when i grew up, it was t-ball, basketball, sledding, now, mcrib, hot apple pie, fish fillet. mika, a lot of news to cover other than obesity. i heard george w. bush said a few things and i suspect maybe that should have been at the top of people's newscasts, but i'll leave that to journalists like you. >> okay. former president george w. bush giving his first interview since leaving office with nbc's matt lauer. he stood firm on crucial matters like his response to the 7th 11 attacks and described that memorable moment when he arrived at ground zero. >> i called it the pit. seemed like we were walking into a pit. there was not only soot, grime, gray, water, like you were

walking into hell. i got down into the bottom of the area there. there was a palpable sense of revenge and anger. i'm trying to be the comforter. these guys are looking at me, like, you going to go get these guys or not? i was overwhelmed by the palpable anger and emotion. i got on the rubble -- >> as we mourn the loss of thousands of our citize citizens -- listen, we appreciate your service and whatever, we can't hear you! it wasn't kind of a soft, we can't hear you, we can't hear you! i can hear you! [ applause ] >> i can hear you, the rest of the world hears you, and the people -- and the people who knocked these buildings down

will hear all of us soon. >> all right. he also defended his decision to water board terrorist suspects, including 9/11 mastermind khalid shaikh mohammed. >> let's talk about waterboarding. we believe america is going to be attacked again. all kinds of intelligence coming in. one of the high value operatives was khalid shaikh mohammed, who ordered the attack on 9/11. they said, he's got information. i said, find out what he knows. i said to our team, are the techniques legal? a legal team says, yes, they are, i said, use them. >> why is waterboarding legal? >> because the lawyer said it was legal. does not fall within the ant anti-torture act. i'm not a lawyer. you have to trust the judgment of the people around you. i will tell you this, using those techniques saved lives.

my job was to protect america, and i did. >> joe, i know where you stand on that. let's back up to that moment on the rubble, which really was an extremely strong moment for the former president. >> yeah. a lot of people don't remember how badly president bush performed his job as president right after the 9/11 attacks, i mean as far as pr goes, as far as optics go. there was obvious confusion that day, but he was, i believe, diverted to louisiana. he was shaken, obviously, he was shaken, but his press conference was nothing to comfort anyone in america or across the world. it took him a couple days to find his voice. during that time, rudy guilliani stepped in and really was the leader of this crisis by what he had said, at least in front of the cameras. he seemed to be in charge, in

control. but when president bush made it to ground zero and got on top of the rubble, he found his voice. it was very important that he did because a lot of people in america and across the world were looking to him for leadership. it is easy to forget now that he did inspire an awful lot of americans. his approval rating was up in the 80s or so. most people, even people on the left believed certainly, through the first year of this crisis, before iraq, he was doing a very good job. i heard from one democrat after another, we're glad he has the people in he has in there. of course, mika, that all changed in march of 2003, when he went woo irinto iraq. >> yes. as he stood on the rubble, your point, something happened, he connected. you contrast that with critic m criticisms of our current president, not tested in that situation.

the arm around the fireman was clintonesque. it was not contrived, real, you felt his humanity, you felt his blood. listening to the interview with matt lauer was an interesting interview. matt did a great job. even the simple things, like, hey, the lawyers told me it was legal, i wanted to protect american people, i would do it again. like him or not -- i put it another way, agree with him or not, he's a likable real human character and he showed it that day. i think that's the lesson our president has to learn right now. >> what's so interesting is, there's a disconnect between george w. bush the president and george w. bush the person. mike barnicle, you know this as well as anybody. when he's playing president, he's miserable. he's uncomfortable. he's knot gnot good in that int with matt lauer. when he's with you personally, he is as relaxed and as welcoming as anybody there and you saw that with his arm around the fireman. like he said, wait a second, i will stop playing president and i will start being who i am.

puts his arm around the fireman and says, we hear you, and he takes off. >> you can have all the ideological and political differences you want with george w. bush the bottom line is he's a good guy. he is not an evil man, he is a good guy. that moment, joe, with his arm arou around the fireman, indicating to the crowd there and world at large, soon, they will hear from all of us, that's the most powerful moment, i think, of his presidency. unfortunately for his presidency, the next three months, when he could have asked this nation to do anything, anything, and we would have done it, they let it pass. today, all these years later, osama bin laden is still still -- >> several key terrorists are still out there and were let go. we're not caught by this administration, even though there were key opportunities, is that fair to say? >> i don't think there's any

doubt. and the other point, we lost the ability to inspire the country and ask sacrifice on the part of every american regardless of their place in life, and, two, we lost our ability to command or for that matter, bring the world together and keep the world on our side and our actions overseas, especially in this world on terror was probably the saddest aspect. i agree with mike, in that moment there, he put his amp around that guy and you still get a chill down your spine when he says, the people that did this will hear from us soon. >> if you watch the interview, he didn't fesses up to his mistakes. the mission accomplished banner was a mistake and katrina and from policies and decisions, he really had no regrets, in that interview, anyway, everything he felt bad about was a cosmetics a stettic thing. >> did he ever answer the

question whether he would go into iraq if he had known there were no weapons of mass destruction? that obviously was perhaps the mistake of his administration. >> his answer to that, joe, was kind of a dodge. he just said the world is a better place without sudan hussein in it. >> he said, i can't apologize for something i think was the right thing to do. >> he still thinks -- that's astounding. mika, i guess we have that clip, right? >> we have a lot more from that interview throughout the morning. it's fascinating. up next, sarah palin has a gotcha moment with one wall street reporter, topping the political playbook this morning. plus, should political leaders stick to their beliefs, even if it means little gets done? a surprising new poll! bill karins with the forecast. >> yesterday is not a day you want to remote in new england, sleet, snow, wind, it was ugly.

today, that storm system begins to move out. a little bit in cape cod. the rest of us should be looking at a dry forecast. it is cold, bundle up, temperatures near freezing in much of new england and back to buffalo. forecast, still chilly, temperatures in the 50s for highs. as far as washington d.c., notice a slow warming trend, a lot of sunshine the rest of the week. beautiful day from chicago to dallas, all the way to miami. enjoy a nice stretch of midweek weather. you're watching "morning joe," sponsored and brewed by starbucks. uh, i'm in a timeout because apparently riding the dog like it's a small horse is frowned upon in this establishment! luckily though, ya know, i conceal this bad boy underneath my blanket

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mid-term elections sent a strong clear message to president obama that americans want him to focus on jobs. this week, he went to visit those american jobs in india. while in india, he has tried to make conservative voters more comfortable with him by dancing like a white man. the message here is clear. the message here is clear, i'm not a scary kenyan socialist. i'm your out of shape uncle at a wedding after too many rusty nails. >> the first lady, though, she put on a good show. let's look at the morning papers. "wall street journal," the white house is defending the federal reserve's decision to pump $600 billion into the u.s. economy against growing international criticism. the "usa today," the first "usa today" gallup poll since the mid-term shows americans are divided not just on who should govern but also how. republicans polled, more than twice as likely say leadership

should stick to their beliefs, even if little gets done but 59% of democrats say there's more for politicians to accomplish their goals. that's a long headline. >> ken feinberg listens to the coast tourism industry as they rally to demand their share of claims from the deep horizon explosion. from the historic floods that took place this past spring may have by some estimates cost the city $206 billion in goods and services, the equivalent of one year of economic activity for the city. >> harold, that's our town, nashville and that story got lost. >> even the fund-raising effort got lost. >> unfortunately. with us now, chief correspondent for "politico," mike allen. hi, mike. >> hi. >> we've been hearing this for months now, when republicans take over the house, daryl issa

will be handing out subpoenas like they're going out of style. the chairman of the oversight committee and wants increased investigation into the obama administration. what are we talking about here? >> willie, sheriff issa will be even busier than we realized. wants to have hundreds of hearings per year, has seven subcommittees, wants every one to have a hearing every week they're in session. he had an interview with us. he told them i want seven hearings times 40 weeks, at least 280 hearings in the first year. among the topics he's going after, the housing meltdown, bank bailout, health reform, government contracting, procurement. he will go for serious subjects. he said he's not going for sidelines like birth certificates or steroids in baseball. >> what does this mean legislatively? does the president get bogged down in this? how does this affect what happens over the next two years? >> the biggest part is an effort by majority to send a message reform is what they're about.

that's a big part of the president's message. a big reform fight. all this kicks off january 5th, when john boehner will become speaker, the republicans will put a freshman on leadership committee for the first time and they also say they will try to learn the lessons of 1994, so they're having a lunch meeting at the capitol today, where jim ness sum, a congressman in the reagan revolution and dick armey and other chiefs of staff will be there to talk to them about the dos and don't and the guys that give out the money, appropriations committee, will try to reform that by putting people who pledged no earmarks, against spending. one aide said we want to blow that committee up from within. >> no file-gate, no travel-gate this time around? >> they will try to avoid that. they don't want to become the

issue and recognize that's a terrible mistake. >> do you know the total amount of earmarks given out last year? what's the aggregate? >> i can tell you it makes no difference. >> if we eliminated them all, the dent -- i was there 10 years, don't get me wrong, i wanted to limit them as well, at the same time, it has very little impact lowering the overall pressures on the debt, doesn't it? >> it is not the solution, don't be fooled. >> sarah palin lashing out at a "wall street journal" reporter in a facebook post titled do "wall street journal" reporters read the "wall street journal"? what's governor palin upset about? >> apparently not. she is a noted expert on fed policy and out criticizing that move by the feds the president was just in your headlines defending. a point she made was anybody who buys groceries recently knows the prices have been going up, seems pretty obvious, certainly is true at my safe way.

a "wall street journal" reporter was nitpicking a little bit. in a blog post he wrote sarah palin didn't know what she was talking about, people who shop around the country don't know what their lying eyes are telling them, grocery prices statistically are not up that much. oops, there had been a story in the "wall street journal" just two days before talking about the pressure on grocery stores to raise prices on food manufacturers, so sarah palin was able to take this reporter to task and say, you know, there's been a lot of curiosity over the years about what i read, while in fact i read the "wall street journal," read some alaska papers, how come the "wall street journal" reporters don't read their own paper. a cherry on top. a reporter in the "wall street journal" praises her for her deep knowledge of fed policy, says she's the most sophisticated knowledge of monetary policy of any republican this side of paul ryan. >> call that a makeup call in

the nba. gave her one back. >> i think her creds for 2012 just shot up, the fact she did a goc you with the "wall street journal" reporter. my candidate. >> she's not interested in what's said about her, she seemed to notice that one. thank you so much. >> have a good day. we talk to former counselor to president bush, dan bartlett about last night's big interview with matt lauer. we'll also talk about conan's return to late night with a man who has written a new book on late night, "new york times," bill carter. and nfl football highlights, the only one, between steelers and bengals. t.o. caught a couple touchdowns, but was it enough? [ male announcer ] in the event of a collision,

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welcome back to "morning joe." just about 30 past the hour. was that on the air. what did you say? something inappropriate? do i have to apologize? >> it was appropriate but not on the air. >> you know what, i apologize anyway. >> president obama is scheduled to visit indonesia where he spent part of his childhood and expected to talk in just a few minutes. he will use his stay to reach out to the muslim world. tomorrow, he will visit one of the world's largest morkss and make a major outdoor speech that seayeds say will draw large crowds that is if volcanic a

doesn't cut it short according to gibbs. >> michael steele is defending his position against others who say he isn't effective. and governor haley barbour said he and others in the republican party had to scramble around to find more money because the rnc wasn't doing enough. steele spoke to npr about this. >> i think that's about the fact they don't want me in this job, to put it rather bluntly. that has been a concerted effort since i got the job. i pay no mind to that. my main charge by the 168 individuals who voted for me is to go out and win elections and raise money. i have 1 more elections than any other chairman since 1938. and whether he's going to run again for another term, he said i'm talking with my family and friends and those who have been

supporti supportive. banning all cargo from yemeni and somalia and large ink cartridges and checking carry on luggage in response to two bombs found on board cargo planes last month. >> have you ever met anyone who travels with a toner cartridge? shouldn't be too much of a problem. travel with toner cartridge. >> back to sports. monday night football. steelers taking on cincinnati bengals, a little trickeration. ben roethlisberger handing off to a player who was a quarterback in college and touchdown for the 39-year-old. >> amazing he's playing. >> i know, and with all the work he's doing at cnbc. >> carson will find t.o., for a

27-yard touchdown pass. owens had two touchdowns. bengals cut the lead to six an had a chance. under a minute to go in the game, bengals with a fourth and five, inside the red zone, carson palmer throwing one to jordan shipley, looked like he might have had the catch, then gets sandwiched between two steelers and hang on to win it 27-21. >> what about the tonal cartridge salesman? >> thank you. we need to think about the little guy. >> this guy is out of work. >> sorry. >> bengals have last their last five. >> you can just chime in when ever. >> no. >> sunday's ugly loss to the packers was the end of the road as we expected for cowboys head coach, wade phillips. jerry joanes fired him replacin

him with offensive coach jason jarrett, the first time he has fired a coach since he bought the team. >> look at him. >> ah. >> the league has decided to fine green bay packer safety nick collins 50 grand for this helmet to helmet shot on roy williams, saying in a statement he violently and unnecessarily struck a defenseless receiver. you can't lead with your helmet anymore. they're cracking down. >> i don't understand why they would just fine him $50,000. if you want to hurt these players, you fine them and make them sit out for two or three games. >> bingo. >> the nfl cannot say they're going to act tough on this if they're just slapping people on the wrist and giving them a $50,000 fine. these guys need to sit on the bench for three games. it has to hurt their careers,

hurt their team, hurt the organization. somebody is going to die and it will be on the nfl's hands if they don't start getting serious about this stuff. $50,000, mike barnicle, is not serious. >> joe, everybody i know who knows anything at all-pro football. that's not me, who knows a lot about pro football say exactly the same thing, it's the suspension, the suspension that is really punitive, not the fine. you suspend these players, they get that. >> it hurts the team. >> willie, we had another helmet to helmet this past weekend. >> yeah. that was austin collie on the colts. they looked at it and said it was a kind of shoulder shot, didn't lead with his helmet. >> hit his helmet on the other guy's helmet and his shoulder was within two feet of it. seriously, they need to go back and see real sports and see what happened to boniconi's son.

it's happening every year out there when idiots lead with their helmets on tackles. these guys in the nfl, we talk about it, they're bigger and faster and stronger than anybody ever believed they could be. >> the nfl made steps this year but will go further. joe, we want to bring light on this last story. you and i said for years now five minutes with tim tebow can change a grown man's life. it has changed mine. good news, he's the latest, president bush, justin bieber, everybody has a memoir. the 22-year-old quarterback for the broncos is set to release a memoir next spring titled "through my eyes." he said it would be a story of both faith, family and football and hopes it will inspire people to fulfill their dreams. >> i'd want to get him on this show. i will admit this now. i'm actually pulling for tebow in the nfl. do you believe that? >> you and i said it. we like tim tebow. it's the announcers who talk

about tim tebow are the problem. >> it was pathetic. not talking about gary -- >> i love gary. >> that guy is as nice as cool as it gets. everybody else but gary. >> leave me out of this. >> even if gary was the worst offender, we grant him a "morning joe" pardon. >> take a shot at vern lundqvist. >> vern gets a pass. no, he doesn't. no, we will keep vern in this. >> vern stays in. okay. coming up, george w. bush feels he owes the american people an apology because weapons of mass destruction were not found in iraq? we'll find out in a few minutes. and tomorrow, jeff bridges and mark warner and nora ephron. [ woman ] you know, as a mom,

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if you knew then what you know now, you would still go to war in iraq? >> i, first of all, didn't have that luxury. you don't have the luxury when you're president. i will say definitely, the world is better off without suddam hussein in power as are the people who now have a chance to live in freedom. >> your words, no one was more sickened or anger than i was when we didn't find weapons of mass destruction. you still have a sickening feeling when you think about it? >> i do. >> was there ever any consideration of apologizing to the american people? >> apologizing would basically say the decision was a wrong decision, and i don't believe it was the wrong decision. >> president obama, by the way,

is holding a news conference with the president of indonesia right now. we will monitor that for you and bring you the news from it, as we get it. welcome back to "morning joe," still with us, harold ford jr., donny deutche and mike barnicle. >> basically, what he was saying, literally, if you do a straight line out, even had he known there were no weapons of mass destruction, it was the right thing to do. joe, take it. >> i think the current president, the 44th president, shares a trait with the 43rd president. i think they are men who do not like to admit they are wrong. i think the best thing george w. bush could have done at the end of 2003 is to say, this is the intelligence we got going into iraq, the cia director, when pressed, said, mr. president, it's a slam-dunk. our cia told us they had it,

everybody told us they had weapons of mass destruction. they were wrong. and that was a failure of the federal government. for that, i'm sorry. now, we need to figure out what we're going to do going forward. i think that would have gone a very long way helping this president get through the difficult years that followed. i don't understand, mika, why he wouldn't say that, or any president wouldn't say that or why barack obama, on his problems he's having right now, wouldn't be more straightforward and say, i really messed up in a lot of ways. not equating one with the other, saying this is a character flow when you can't say you're sorry. >> it is. to point out, you were equally critical of the former president as you are of the president who is in office right now, when you think they are not owning up to whatever problems confront them. in this case, it seems like that inability to just face it, donny deutche, led to his lack of credibility in the eyes of many

down the road. >> joe, your opinion, you could have gotten a way in if you said, you know what, this was a mistake but a fortu us to mistake, i would not have -- >> his line of reasoning in terms of the war is the world would be better than suddam hussein. had i had the correct intelligence i would not have done it, that was a mistake. having said that, though, sometimes you end up in the right place even if you made a wrong decision and it was a wrong decision, we got lucky, you never attach luck to losing lives. >> actually, a better way he could have said it, mike barnicle, let's try this one on. you know what, all the intelligence officers and politicians and everybody in washington d.c. screwed up. we made a terrible mistake. we believed there were weapons of mass destruction, there weren't. i will tell you what, despite that fact, it was a fortuitous mistake because the men and women in uniform and united states of america have done an

extraordinary job in iraq and because of their hard work and discipline, despite our mistakes the world will be a safer place. what would have been so hard about saying that? ? there's nothing hard about saying that, joe. he could have added one more thing to it. history will be the ultimate judge whether this is beneficial to the world or not. all of us sitting here talking about this have the luxury of never having lost a son or daughter in iraq. thursday is veterans day. the war in iraq, the way it was conducted at the beginning, the invasion of iraq was an unmitigated disaster. history might judge it differently, 20, 30 years from now, it might indeed turn out to be a beneficial move for the middle east and world at large. you're right, a larger explanation would have been more -- would have been better for george w. bush as well as the country to have heard that from him last night. >> it would have gone a long

way, mika, i think, bringing together a divided country. i remember, i'm sure you remember, and i know harold is there and you want to ask him a question, i remember after the president's first four years, people asked him, did you make any mistakes and he couldn't think of one mistake he made. i tell you, i don't go through four hours without knowing i screwed up. >> that's correct. >> you don't have to agree so quickly. >> i need to take corrective action. that's what makes us better, being self aware of the mistakes we make and we constantly try to improve. mika, he went four years, went into a war based on wmd's, and said he didn't make a mistake? >> i feel the same as a you about being self aware and trying to recognize mistakes as they happen. i think it makes everybody stronger. i know it's -- >> never in doubt. it makes people more like you,

frankly. >> not you. >> speaking of mistakes or regrets or things that chip away at a leader's credibility, we go to this part of the interview, where the president does regret the use of the words, "mission accomplished." >> in 2003, you stood on the deck of that aircraft carrier and said to the american people. >> major combat operations in iraq have ended. >> i went on to say there's more difficult ahead. the problem is -- >> and you stood on the deck -- >> no question it was a mistake. >> your words were used against you over and over again. >> that happens when you're president. if i had to do it over again, which you don't get to do when you're the president, the united states -- good going, men and women. great mission. or something, i don't know what it is. >> joe, see, now, why at that point, you talk about that interview where he was asked if he could think of any mistakes

he made, he couldn't think of any, why is it easy to say now? >> it should be easier for him to say now that he messed up. i do want to say, though, harold ford, i know you go to bed every night reading my books, you love my books. >> along with my -- >> and if you read the last best hope, i have quotes in there, the most damning quotes of people on the left. first of all, saying that iraq needed to be invaded, that iraq was the greatest threat to america. i have a new york city and "washington post" editorial saying the same thing. and then i have, when bill clinton was president, of course. then i have what people were saying on the same day that george w. bush gave that speech. bush may have been blind to the dangers that were ahead of us, but the whole country was blind to it, including a lot of people on the left, who later castigated him for those same words. >> joe, it speaks to your point

30 seconds before you said this, once he realized combat operations and the mission was not accomplished, he should have been willing to say that. two, if he had just stayed focused on afghanistan and just stayed focused on finding bin laden, imagine not only the different political optics, substantively how much we would have accomplished in the middle east, i believe we would have accomplished a lot more and held the world together in all our efforts. >> harold, let me say this, though. yes. if we had not gone into iraq, that would have been a better thing and we probably would have killed bin laden by now. but the results would be the same, we'd still be going into pakistan. >> and it would have gone on earlier. but we might be in a slightly better significant position than we are in afghanistan. >> maybe so.

>> great conversation. we'll have more coming up. willie. >> a little bit lighter fare. conan o'brien appears on television. >> how did that go? >> we will have highlights. >> you decide. have discovered how easy it is to use legalzoom for important legal documents. so start your business, protect your family, launch your dreams. at legalzoom.com we put the law on your side.

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yes, yes, yes. >> yes, indeed. >> it's time.

>> conan's back, back on tv. >> i'll have what she's having. >> we've waited a year for this, had all the infighting, griping, self pity, blimps flying in front of our windows, finally, conan, back on tv. >> great! >> part of his opening montage and theme here was what he's been doing to find work over the last year. >> so as i think you can see, i believe i'd make a marvelous addition to your team. >> you have absolutely no advertising experience, plus, it's 1965, and you were 2 years old. >> we have amazing guests. pearl jam. >> i don't care who you were, i just ask for some extra sweet and sour sauce. please go. i'll call the police.

>> you want me to move "the tonight show" to 12:05. >> i don't care who you were. >> get a job! >> don't do it, conan! >> larry king? >> i'm your guardian angel. >> you're not dead. >> never mind that. i have two words for you. basic cable. >> let's dig into this a little. let me say for the record, i've known conan o'brien for 16 years when he started. why is he jumping off a bridge? >> you know what, you're not wronged my friend, you have $40 million, you sailed in that time slot, stop whining. i think he's hurting his brand and he will go up against jon stewart and colbert and people don't want -- i don't feel bad for you, my friend, shut-up, just shut-up. >> here's a little of conan's monologue, you knew he would touch on that. >> i'm excited to be here and welcome to my knew show, it's

called "conan." this show is called "conan." people asked me why i named the show "conan," i did it so i'd be harder to replace. >> you saw some of the show last night. we go to bed too early. i should be in bed early. >> i thought it was funny. >> i think donny makes a good point. but i thought he was a funny guy. >> go back to being funny. you weren't wronged. i don't want to go into a heavy discussion, but just shut-up. >> good day in new york, the fox local show. >> in new york. >> talking to jeff goldblum, a great actor. >> you don't think he's a great actor? >> he is. >> his new movie is called "morning glory," a morning talk show. they're on the red carpet of this fox show asking him about his favorite morning show. >> i always tune in one thing or another, these days, you know

what i do, if i'm in the right place, in the right mood, i watch ""morning joe"." >> he's supposed to say "good day new york." >> that was nuts of him. >> a great, great actor. >> he is. >> he's the best. >> legendary. >> you got -- as good as they get. newman, redford, jeff goldblum. brando. goldblum. >> joe, you should just thank him. >> coming up next, what do g george bush's former staffers think about his memoirs in the interview last night. we'll talk to a pair of them. dan seymour and dan bartlett join the conversation next on "morning joe." [ male announcer ] in the event of a collision,

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in his gripping new memoir, "decision points", george w. bush reflects on the highlights of his time in office.

"decision points" in stores november 9th. >> all right. lifer shot. my gosh, beautiful. look at lady liberty. >> leave it to "morning joe" to keep it serious. welcome back to "morning joe." still with us, mike barnicle and donny deutche. joining the conversation, senior fellow and council of foreign relations and foreign policy advisor to president bush, dan seymour. >> what's a fellow? >> i don't know. i will tell you this, the fellow who is the most excited, mika, about george w. bush's new bush coming out, david letterman. he has missed the president as a punching bag for the past couple of years. you can tell, the writers were just salivating for this moment. >> i'm about to go into some of the mistakes he made and run the

sound bites, i'm wondering how difficult is it in a statement of just words to say, you know what, i'm sorry, that was a mistake. i don't understand how hard it is. >> it's difficult for george w. bush, it's difficult for barack obama. i think one of president obama's biggest mistakes over the past two years and a lot of democrats are sitting home defeated this morning, all across the country, over 600 or 650 democratic candidates lost across the country, the state and federal level because barack obama couldn't admit, in the middle of a health care crisis, that he had just misread the tea leaves, he was wrong. so they kept pushing it and kept pushing it, despite every morning, people like barnicle were saying, he's taking his party over the cliff. i guess it's hard for these guys to admit they screwed up, mika. >> far be it for me to interrupt

joe when he's quite effectively changing the subject from iraq and bush to obama and health care. why not just stay on that? >> this memoir is fascinating. go ahead, joe. >> it doesn't have to do with issues, has to do with character. do you have the character, are you confident enough as a leader of the united states of america, to say, you know, i made a mistake and that is one of the worst flaws for a politician to have. it hurts them as much as everybody else. >> i was in the greenroom watching your discussion. i actually think you guys hit on something really important, which is on iraq, what failed? president bush failed on that particular decision, the entire system failed. if you look at virtually every senior member of president obama's national security team, secretary clinton, vice president biden, officials like richard holbrooke and jim steinberg, they all supported president bush's decision on iraq, they all believed there

was wmd there. the intelligence community believed it. the military believed it. senior members of congress on the gnintelligence committees believed it. the system failed. maybe president bush should have apologized on behalf of the system because he was at the head of the system when that happened. also don't forget what was happening at the time, the context. people were not arguing the system failed, people weren't arguing george bush made a mistake, they were arguing that he lied, the conventional wisdom accusation was that he lied america into a war. >> i think it's very hard to apologize if you've led tens of thousands of people into war and to their deaths, it must be very difficult to whatever, made that mistake and misled people. let me get to the sound bite. you guys can fight this out, you're far more qualified than i am. among the bigger revelations, bush responded to the criticism of not finding weapons of mass destruction in iraq. your words, no one was more

sickened or angry than i was when we didn't find weapons of mass destruction. your still have a sickening feeling when you think about it. >> i do. i do. >> was there ever any consideration of apologizing to the american people? >> apologizing would basically say the decision was a wrong decision, i don't believe it was a wrong decision. >> joe, how does he -- how does he do that? either it's wrong and there were no wmd and the whole precedent for war was completely lacking, or not? >> well, we talked about this last hour. the president could have said, as dan said, there was a systemic breakdown, when it came to intelligence. of course, there had been a systemic breakdown on september 11th as well. donny, you add, actually last hour, you said -- i thought you gave great advice for what the president could have said at that time. >> yeah.

very very simple. it was a mistake. don't blame the system. i think that's cowardly. it was a mistake, i made a mistake based on the information. having said that, it was a foryou fo fortuitous mistake and the benefit is we have a safer planet and no suddam hussein. it was a mistake and i apologize on that decision making. >> would that have worked. >> i think we stumbled into the right place and sometimes luck is better than skill. that's the way you man up. you don't leave us feeling as a country we made this gaffe we will pay for the rest of time. don't blame it on the system, you're the commander in chief. >> as the head of the system, commander in chief at the time, the buck stays with him. you're saying he should say it was necessary, what we did in iraq was necessary but not sufficient to wage the war in terror.

something we had to do. suddam hussein could not remain in power, suddam hussein without wmd could not remain in power because of the destabilizing -- >> and if i had known they weren't there,inter-i wouldn't have done it and that would have been a mistake. >> let me bring in former counselor to george w. bush, dan bartlett joining the conversation as well. >> hey, dan. good to see you, dan. what's your take away so far from the president's book, the press' reaction to it and a lot of polls show this president's numbers are stubbornly rising? >> i was having a good time listening to the debate on set. it's interesting to watch how all these issues come back to the fore and everybody is reigniting the conversation and controversial decisions. as everybody reads this book, there will be discussions about

iraq and wmd and those issues. i hope people also see a little bit of the person i worked for for 15 years and see a part of the humanity of the man and a lot how he grappled with these big decisions. i know it's sport for people to say it wasn't reflective and didn't care about the decisions he made. anybody who reads this book will see it's quite contrary, he did take his responsibilities seriously. these big issues he was facing was something as a staff we grappled with. he as a person, with his wife and his family, he had to grapple with. i think it's a good read. he gives insight into a person i have known for a long time and hope people will read it. >> dan, you're defending him or elevating him because he took these things personally. i damn hope he did. that's kind of price of entry, isn't it? >> the point is a lot of people said quite the opposite. the fact he even has to demonstrate he took these things personally, i think is more of a

commentary on the environment in which we work in now. he does give that type of intro respective reflection and insight into those things when a lot of people callously said he didn't care or didn't give a crap and that's not true. >> the president later called his flyover katrina as a quote huge mistake. >> flying back toward washington, you fly right over new orleans and you look out the window. >> yes. a huge mistake. >> it made you look so out of touch. >> detached, and uncaring, no question about it. >> whose fault was that? >> it's always my fault. i should have touched down in baton rouge, met with the governor, walked out and said, i hear you, we know, we understand, we're going to, you know, help this state and help the local governments with as much resources as needed, and got back on a flight to washington. i did not do that and paid a price for it. >> dan, i guess you had to be

called dan to be hired by the bush administration. dan bartlett, let me go to you, dan bartlett, i had contentious debates with people, as you know, inside the bush administration for the first four years or so about spending, how the war was being conducted, a lot of issues. there was always a back and forth. i noticed something happening, though, when i pushed back after katrina. i notice it even now, talking to former bush staffers who loved bush, who were proud to serve this country and who would do it again, but katrina remains a -- i can't overstate this, katrina remains a scar on their soul. i've had several high ranking people say, i will never get back into politics again. they go back to katrina. talk about the lasting impact that had on so many bush people and what went so terribly wrong. >> there's no question about it,

joe. if i look back at the 7 1/2 years i was in the west wing, no question all the issues we faced, 9/11, afghanistan, iraq, shuttle disaster, all those things, nothing compares to that first week or those 10 days around katrina. on multiple levels, whether it was the fact we couldn't get good information, we were slow in decision making, we were spread across the country, it was in august, the president was in texas, i was in washington, andy card was in massachusetts, et cetera. it was a complete disaster. it's interesting, president bush says in the interview and book, he talks about the flyover and he takes responsibility for that. granted, ultimately, he was responsible. he was covering for his staff because his staff screwed that up. we had a contentious debate internally and he was willing to take -- yeah. >> i'm sorry, we have a delay here. i'm so sorry. i wanted to interrupt you

because i thought one of the most shocking things about katrina was the president was disconnected. this wasn't in this book. you guys had to draw straw to figure out who was going to go down to president bush in texas and tell him how badly he was screwing things up. unfortunately, you got the short straw. you had to go down and tell him that. it wasn't just the staff, he was disconnected, wasn't he? >> like i said, one of the most frustrating parts of the first 72 hours, first four days was the fact the information that was getting to the president wasn't matching the reality on the ground. he was needing to get more information, better information, faster information so he could make better decisions. he had a lot of experience dealing with natural disasters both as governor and president. obviously, this was one unprecedented. internally, we should have done a better job to give him the information to make decisions. we had, like i said, a whole string of both substantive and

pr screw-ups, one being the flyover, like you mentioned, others being a heck of a job, brownie, he talked about in the interview last night and talks about in the book. we put a string of those together that was just unbelievable. at the end of the week, it was a disaster on more than just -- it was more than a natural disaster, a political disaster on our hands. >> always complicated when you have to tell a president he's screwing up but probably some of the most important roles in the white house. president bush also discussed his complicated relationship with vice president dick cheney, including their difference over the decision to spare scooter libby a prison sentence rather than pardon him in the valerie plame scandal. bush said his relationship with cheney eventually recovered and shrugged off criticism. >> when you heard that, cheney

is running the white house? >> no. bush's brain knew full well who was running the white house. when you're the president, there's all kinds of things coming at you. it's the nature of the job. >> it certainly is, dan seymour. do you think -- you're not allowed to say, probably, in retrospect, what could he have done better other than the mistakes he agrees to in this book. >> on vice president cheney. he's a divisive figure, certainly around this crowd, delivery of cupcakes not withstanding. >> i like the cupcakes and i like the cheneys. >> i think history will judge him favorably for protecting the country and advising president bush during that time. remember when president bush chose cheney as his running mate. many of the pundits were saying terrible mistake, what regional value does he add? how does he balance out the

ticket? candidate bush argued, he would make a great advisor and great vice president. when people were suggesting he dump cheney in this middle of his administration, he argued the same thing. we can argue the best and worst of bush, he made a decision what to do with cheney, based on who he thought would give him the advice he needed, not who he thought would give him the best political punch in an election campaign. regardless what you think of the merits, that's an admirable trait you want for your president. >> dan bartlett, what do you think the result of this book is going to be. i suspect like you, you touched on it, people have turned george bush almost into a cartoon character suggesting he didn't give a damn about anything, just a cowboy, shooting from the hip all the time. do you think because expectations are so low and because he's been turned into such a 2-dimensional character, this book will help his standing

a great deal with americans? >> like most things in our politics, it probably depends on your political perspective. for a lot of people on the left, this will probably reignite a lot of old emotions and get them frustrated all over. for most americans, this will give them an opportunity to say, okay, now i know a little bit more about the guy, what he was thinking at the time, historic moments in the country of our history and how he was grappling with it and seen a bit more of the character of the man. the big controversies, like the war, that will take human rigis settle. this marker he puts down in this book gives insight who he is as a person and why people liked him so much when he first ran for president. >> let me ask you what happened when he stopped being president? what is it about the bushes, they have the grace to keep their mouths shut when a new guy gets into the office and lets them be president of the united states without henpecking them for two years? >> it's a good question or a

good point to make. i think a lot has to do with the example set by his father. we also were on the receiving end when we're in the white house having former presidents taking potshots was never fun. he always said when we were there, i'm not going to be like that. when i'm off the big dance floor, it's somebody else's time to be in the cleave lights, i will go back to having as normal a life i can. i'm happy to report he's doing a pretty good job of that. >> here's the interesting phenom. in a lot of ways we are yesterday's society. even if you were a bush hater, something feels a little different. time passes, we elevate naturally. i think as each year goes by, every ex-president, jimmy carter irs a little salty, we somehow look back fonder than we actually did. i think that's what's in his favor. i think as you watched him, what started to surface through the screen was, good guy. you kind of leave behind -- >> i agree with you.

i think there's another factor at play. if you look at the issues barack obama campaigned on on philanthro foreign policy clearly supposed to be a clear break from president bush, in many respects, not much has changed. look at the national infrastructure. he kept president bush's pentagon civilian leadership in place, gates, some of his military leadership, petraeus, hasn't shut down gitmo, look at iraq and afghanistan, not much has changed from the bush strategy. >> you look how hard it all really is. >> it's complicated stuff and look at bush and say these aren't easy calls. every one is not an easy call. the president is returning to the country he lived in as a child. we bring you savannah guthrie traveling with the president and later, conan's return. will it change the late night landscape as much as his departure did? you're watching "morning joe" brewed by starbucks. [ male announcer ] humana and walmart are teaming up

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with respect to outreach to the muslim world, i think that our efforts have been earnest, sustained. we don't expect that we are going to completely eliminate, so the misunderstandings and mistrust developed over a long period of time, but we do think that we're on the right path. much has been made of the fact this marks my return to where i lived as a young boy. i will tell you, though, i barely recognize it. but today, as president, i'm here to focus not on the past but on the future.

>> 23 past the hour, joining us now from jakarta and indonesia, where president obama continues his ten day asia trip. white house correspondent and cohost of "the daily rundown," savannah guthrie. i take it the traveling white house there is on volcano watch, which could cut the trip short? >> reporter: we are. can you believe it? this indonesia trip has been canceled twice before. he made it, he's mere and no to anner did we land and learn it might be cut short because of the volcano. it's not close to here but because of the volcanic ash, there's a window air force one can depart and may be less than 24 hours and some things may be off the schedule, and the speech he will be giving to indonesia to about 6,000 people and should happen no matter what. he was also supposed to visit

southeast asia's largest mosque. it's questionable whether he can make that visit. right now, the schedule is intact. >> it's willie. good to see you there. as you said, the president is scheduled to visit a mosque, the most populous majority on the planet. what does he hope to accomplish? an outreach to the muslim world? >> reporter: there are a couple of goals here, one, the one you mentioned. they want to highlight indonesia as an example of pluralistic democracy, majority muslim country that's working and want to show the rest of the world what's happening in indonesia can happen elsewhere, where people are living side by side in relative peace. that's one aspect of it. the other part is trade. we saw that in india. the president spent three days in india, the longest single foreign visit of his presidency,

all about trade. they want to increase trade. they see asia as a priority where u.s. exports can go and want to increase that and say it will result in jobs back home and that's a real emphasis as well. >> reaching out to muslims, the president is going to be visiting the region's largest mosque. tell us a little bit about how the islamic world is reacting to this trip. >> reporter: we'll see. the president obviously supposed to visit the mosque, unclear whether that will have to be put off. i think it's something the president feels very strongly about. he often visits historic sights in the travels he takes. he certainly visited one of istanbul's famous mosque in a trip in early 2009. it's something they're planning to do. a lot of historic sites in india, although he didn't go to the temple, the wholly site originally planned. that stirred controversy and

suspicions white house aides canceled that visit because they were concerned the president, in order to visit there, would have to wear a head covering. white house aides say that is no the reason, he was there three days, sometimes things are planned for but come off the schedule for logistical reasons and that's one thing folks have been talking about during this trip. >> hey, savannah. yesterday, president obama gave what i thought was a strikingly important speech before the indian parliament that got virtually no attention. he said some really interesting things in that speech one would think would be news making not the least of which talking about afghanistan, given the region he is in. while he said, while we will begin next summer to hand over responsibility to the afghan government and afghan people, we are not abandoning afghanistan, our commitment remains, even on the ground to fight extremists there, important to security interests to all countries around the world, which struck me as a pretty important statement. it seemed to be somewhat of a soft rollback of his firm

commitment on afghanistan for next summer. is that something people were bubbling about on the ground? >> let me break this down really quickly. bottom line, savannah, joe scarborough here in chicago, obama backed away from a hard and fast timeline. looks like our troops will be in afghanistan a lot longer. >> reporter: i think white house aides would actually disagree with that analysis. as we all know, they have all said the beginning of a drawdown of the surged troops, the troops he ordered once he came into office will begin in 2011. there has been significant confusion, frankly, about this, because there have been differing statements from various generals. the defense secretary said, of course it will be conditions based. one thing they have stood firm on is this notion those surged troops will begin to withdraw in july 2011. as the vice president has said, will it be a few thousand or a significant withdrawal? the last point is consider the

audience. this is india, very concerned about its afternoon rival, pakistan and very concerned the white house, the administration would cut and run and severely destabilize the region. that's the reason we heard the president come out so strongly there. >> mika, we're out of time. bottom line, the "wall street journal" picked it up as well. it seemed that the president was suggesting that we would begin a slow drawdown when the timeline comes. he wanted the indian parliament to understand we will be in afghanistan for a very long time. i suspect there's some people on the left in america that aren't happy about that this morning. >> savannah guthrie, thank you very much. you can catch her on "the daily rundown" at 9:00 eastern time after "morning joe." harry ford junior and dan seymour, thank you very much. up next, sarah palin takes tough criticism from a key member of the republican party next on "morning joe."

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a phone that gets you to the stuff you love faster. only from at&t. rethink possible. morning shot from the top of the rock. welcome back to "morning joe" at 33 past the hour. a quick look at the news. flew developments.

in the battle over the democratic house leadership, majority leader steny hoyer says he has the votes to retain the leadership over congressman jim clyburn. he says i have been encouraged by the number of my fellow democrats who have urged me to remain the second ranking member of our leadership of our house and believe as i do that it can unify our caucus, aggressively uyou o define our opponents and fight every day in the bintsz best i in this american people. sarah palin, and alabama congressman spencer baucus said the senate would be republican today except for states in which palin endorsed candidates like christine o'donnell in delaware. sarah palin has cost us control of the senate. yesterday, bachus spokesman seemed to walk back those comments, that congressman

bachus and other political observers said seats in delaware and nevada could have been won by stronger candidates, that's a lesson going forward. that's fair, too. maybe they're right, both of his comments. up next, the brand-new book and fall-out over "the tonight show." a good one, straight ahead on "morning joe." [ male announcer ] we went to germany's nurburgring

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you tell the truth, they hit you and then they hit you back harder with -- the truth. >> america is unscriptable. >> talk about results now. >> the story always changes. >> you think they're worried about distractions like this? >> that will end up biting them. >> if we stop and listen -- >> this country can catch up. >> jobs jobs jobs. >> you may be surprised. even when the cameras are off -- >> why don't you just say it on air. >> america is always on. >> i'm excited to be here. welcome to my new show. it's called "conan." people asked me why i named the show "conan." i did it so i'd be harder to replace. the truth, i have dreamed of being a talk show host on basic

cable ever since i was 46. things are already going very well. i am happy to report right now, i just got this news, we are already number 1 in tbs's key demographic, people who can't afford hbo. >> welcome back to "morning joe." that was a clip from the premier of "conan," last night. on t bs. joining us, the author of the new book, "the war for late night," when leno went early and television went crazy. thanks for being on. take it away. >> these books seem to keep writing themselves. >> this would be one of those. >> we all remember your first extraordinary book about the war between letterman and leno on nbc. we've been commenting about koman's bitterness over the past several months. we're saying, you have $40 million, put a smile on your face. but you write about how he would

lie in bed depressed wondering what the hell happened. go into that a little bit, how much this affected him personally. >> he put so much into the idea of being the host of "the tonight show," and when it didn't work and he was removed from it. he was actually shocked by that, surprising because the momentum was moving that way, it really devastated him. when i talked to him soon after this happened, he was really emotionally devastated by it for quite a while. i think, you know, he had to sort of slowly come around to the idea he had to move on. listen, the money -- everybody knows he made a huge amount of money. these guys make a huge amount of money all the time. it really didn't change his life, that money. what changed his life was he didn't succeed in the thing he really dreamed about. >> what we've heard for several months is a story of an obstinate conan, who was told from the beginning from people like dick ebersol, i think it

was in the times, said, remember, you have to change your act. carson always said you win this thing in the central time zone, conan. change your act. he heard that from a lot of people. he refused to do it. he wouldn't even book guests that would have driven his ratings up. why? >> i think he had to be true to himself. you have to think about the kind of performer you are, can't change your style so much. i think he did try to adjust and i think he was off his game a little bit because of that on ""the tonight show"." i think he was committed to being the guy his base, young audience would like and trying to adjust. "the tonight show," remember johnny was a vegas performer and jay was. and conan was not a vegas performer and couldn't fit in that niche. the biggest was sarah palin, when sarah palin was in her big fight with letterman, they wanted conan to book her.

he didn't want to do that. i don't want to have her on just to rip my competition. he thought his audience would react negatively to that. it might not have been the right decision but the right decision for him. >> you take this inside the back room as nbc suggests to conan, we will move you to 12:05, put leno at 11:35. he has a decision to make, do i take the 12:05 spot or remarkable comment by his executive producer or do we blow this blanker up. they decided to blow this blanker up. >> it was first proposed, first reaction was, what does jay have on you guys? you can see the bitterness was in there coming out. he kind of thought, should i try this on, maybe think about doing this? his wife was kind of like against it. that sort of tipped him and he decided to write that manifesto

and said why he wouldn't do it. he composes it in his house, one night of all night writing it and comes back the next day and sitting with his agents and lawyers and everybody lawyering it up, one lawyer says, you're speaking from your heart, let's do it. the executive producer, a very experienced guy, do we really want to do this? if we put this out, it's over, do we really want to blow it up? conan stops, before he left, blow it up. >> to a lot of people, "the tonight show" is still johnny carson, i would think. there is so much out there, two or three years from now, who is watching? >> this is a big issue. they divided the johnny audience nine way, nine good guys doing shows. very hard to find that big audience anymore. i think you will find instead of the shows lennon and letterman does and conan does with big

bands and huge numbers of segment producers, i think you will see scaled down things which stewart and colbert do, in a studio, no band or extras that cost a lot of money. it used to be a moneymaker, the tonight show and not anymore. >> and you keep slicing, if you're a young girl, watch chelsea handler. 18-24 young males, stewart-colbert, they're dominating. >> and stewart is head to head against them. i did have a quote in the book, someone said young people love conan but they'll take a bullet for jon stewart. that will be a challenge for them. >> i would not want to bet against jon stewart. >> there is a different niche. jon's audience is news oriented and politically oriented. conan is a very sophisticated smart guy but does a form of comedy silly in a way and there's an audience that likes that, too. the thing about cable, he doesn't need that big audience,

doesn't have to have 2, 3 billion people, if he gets a million and a half people and they are young, they can make money. >> let's talk about ron meyer, runs universal, a great guy, seems like the type of guy you would want to bring in to soothe things over. ron was brought in at the end as sort of the go between and there was one last chance for nbc to keep conan. tell us about that. >> interesting. ron became the intermediary to put the deal together to settle it. at this point, it had blown up. it didn't look like anything could be fixed. after he gets all this very elaborate detail, too many more days than anybody thought it would take, at the very last minute, he called jeff zooker of nbc, the deal is done, everybody has agreed, you have 10 minutes to make your call. if you want to, you can still turn it the other way and keep conan. you have 10 minutes to make a decision. i don't think jeff would have gone back on it.

he took the 10 minutes to think about it. >> there's a great scene you talk about this super bowl ad that became famous, oprah in there with letterman and leno and conan asked to be in it -- >> no way i'm doing it. this isn't a joke to me. i think this year, conan would do it. he was a raw nerve at that point. he couldn't settle in there. maybe he will never do it with jay. at that point, he couldn't turn it into humor. for a jay, a chance to get back with dave, that was exciting to him. he really was excited by that. >> are you shock, i remember the "60 minutes" interview a couple months ago, conan said he hadn't spoken to leno. are you surprised they didn't speak in some way? >> there was a moment this first happens, jay says to the nbc guys maybe i should call conan, remembering conan had just exploded and said, what has this guy got on you, they said, don't do it. they advised jay not to call him. in the interim, you would think

maybe after it settled, then jay, conan told the joke on the air that jay did not like at all, about you can have any dream you want in america unless jay leno wants it, too. that joke really turned -- >> kind of funny. >> it was funny. good joke. >> that's a good one. >> i think after that, jay was saying, i don't think i can work with this guy. >> bill, you have such incredible access to all these key players, everybody talked to you. that's the most remarkable thing about this book. all of the players talked to you, sort of like a bob woodward book for tv. what was your biggest surprise? what was the bit of information that you got that sort of made you gasp, and go, my god, i never saw this coming? >> sort of funny in a way, what really got to me was the beginning of all this, nbc made

a deal to give conan the show in five years. nobody really does that. it's crazy. at the time it happened, i was writing a profile of conan and they renewed jay first and said, we're going to renew jay for five more years and conan was thinking he might get "the tonight show" at that point and his people said this changes everything for us, we will have to consider cnbc and abc and fox. they had already made the deal, already had the guarantee of "the tonight show." i didn't know that. nobody knew that. totally under the radar and never talked about it until all this blew up. >> a lot of lessons in there actually. don't believe everything you read. >> get a life. >> you're right. in this economy -- thank you so much, bill carter. the book once again is "the war for late night," a great great read. >> thanks once again. up next, waves the size of buildings and people crazy

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♪ >> big waves, each one has such a different character. that's great that they have

their own personality. the earth is a living oregoniani oregonianism. >> that was the pioneer of extreme surfing. he is talking about his chase of monster waves. we have the author of "the wave." susan casey, great to have you with us. >> he may be wired differently. >> i hide in my apartment at the first sign of rain. tell us what kind of guys and gals these are? >> it's a question of what motivated me to write the book. the answer at the end of the day are people who are very skilled

and very alive, far from having a death wish. they are some of the most alive people i have ever met. >> tell us about some of the waves. how big and how crazy to jump into one of these? >> the waves are like characters in the book, because they have personalities, as weird as that can sound. jaws is where they learn the technique, they had to invent themselves to surf a wave bigg than 50 and 60 feet. if you can imagine the learning curve for a sport like that is fairly steep, and the odds of really getting hurt are very high. >> what kind of casualties? >> anything from fatalities to people having their faces ripped off. >> how many people die from surfing? >> not as many as you might think, because the sport is so rare. there is a few dozen men in the world that can actually do it, and they do lose people, perhaps

not as often as the pictures would indicate. >> what would the power of that wave be? >> is there a way to quantify it? >> it takes an 18 inch wave to bring down a wall built to withstand 120 miles per hour winds. >> what are we talking about in terms of size when we are looking at these waves in the video? >> 60 and 70 feet. >> you have storm waves, and rogue waves and tsunamis. >> tsunamis are an under water disturbance. >> they surf those? >> no, the book concerns itself with waves of all kinds pfr and rogue waves are mysterious, and they are responsible for a lot of ships that disappear in the

seas. very mysterious. >> where do we find these waves? where should we not go? >> that's the queen elizabeth ii, and that looked like the white cliffs of dover coming at him. >> let's do our wave, guys. >> susan casey, thank you for that book. >> cool stuff. >> thank you for being here and appreciate it. up next, the washington post, jean robinson on "morning joe." ♪ [ indistinct shouting ] ♪ another day ♪ another dollar

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♪ we went to the t.a.r.p. program. >> we did. >> yeah, they hated it and i can understand that. the idea of spending taxpayers' money to give to wall street and the banks to save them, a lot of people think they created the crisis in the first place. so i can understand the angs tnch, but i was worried about the economy going down, and i believe t.a.r.p. saved the economy. >> he is right. you have to give it to him, and as painful as it was, and we

were in armageddon. >> a live look at times square this morning. and joe is in chicago, and mike barnicle and willie and donny here. and joining us, eugene robinson. joe, looking at the interview with george w. bush which aired last night on nbc, his interview with matt lauer, what do you make of his comments on t.a.r.p.? >> well, what is so fascinating about history, is history given the perspective of five, ten, 15 years is able to put things in proper focus without all the emotions of the moment. there is no doubt that despite the fact that i was against the bailout and most americans were against the bailout, historians

will look back and see what george w. bush did, along with barack obama, and historians will credit george bush and hank paulson and obama, and the people that made the decisions at the end of 2008 of keeping the banks solvent and saving the economy. there is no doubt about that. if you combine that decision with how i believe the middle east will look ten years from now, because of a lot of the ugliness that happened the first five or ten years of the new century, you will have a transformation of the middle east. historians will have a very complex assessment of george w. bush, but i suspect the t.a.r.p.

issue, and several others will actually play better for george bush than they do right now. >> yeah, there is no question had he not acted, we were going down the drain. we were stairing in a black hole. the banks were going down. every horrible image. so obviously it makes your stomach crawl to bail these guys out, but you had no choice. >> i agree with joe and donny. i think t.a.r.p. was necessary, nobody liked it at the time. but that decision and others, divisions that the bush administration made and divisions that the obama administration made early in 2009, i think, you know, they kept us -- they kept armageddon from happening, and i think that's the way history will put it down. i am not quite as agreeable as

what the middle east will look like in ten years, and i am not sure if it will be a whole lot better or worse, but he definitely shook things up. >> i am not sangwin about the middle east about where it is today or in ten years, but there is a possibility that the historians will have to grabble with something else in terms of how things look there. barack obama may look back at t.a.r.p., and his participation and his actions also helped the economy going. despite that, the president lost a historic amount of seats in the house, and i still think in large part it's because of the bank bailout. >> and there was events where

the mid-term election looked similar because of the amount of spending and divisions that were made. let's get back to the interview, though. we have this portion of it which i like a lot. he stood form, george w. bush, to his response to 9/11, and described the moment. take a look. >> i call it the pit, and it seemed like we were walking into the pit, and it was not only soot, and ash, and i got down to the bottom, and there was a sing of anger, and i was overwhelmed by the palpable anger and emotion. so i got on the rubble --

>> as we mourn the loss of thousands of our citizens -- and i was like we appreciate your service, and it's like we can't here you, and it was not a soft we can't hear you, but it was like we can't hear you! >> we can't hear you. >> i can hear you. the rest of the world hears you, and the people -- and the people who knocked these buildings down will hear all of us soon. >> so mike barnicle, i think fair on to say is an example of a president connecting to a moment and getting it right. >> that's the moment he became president of the united states. that was his inaugural address as president. and that moment there, i think emotionally, captured him and clung to him throughout the

invading iraq and for the next seven six or seven years. it's interesting to watch the interesting to watch the interview with matt lauer, who did awesome by the way. and the president doesn't speak to the country the way former president bush spoke to the country last night. it's in terms of the human dynamic. >> and we talked about the arm around the shoulder. eugene, you wrote a column and moving to obama's interview on "60 minutes." we need the leadership, and put your arm around us as a populist and obviously he is not coming off this epic tragedy, but there is a page to be taken there, and the other night on "60 minutes," he did not take it according to you? >> yeah, i thought the interview

on "60 minutes" that the president did was flat, quite frankly. he seemed uninspired, and it was -- it was not an inspiring interview. you know, he just had his clock cleaned in the mid terms, and there are different ways of saying what the basic message has to be, and i heard the message, and this is what we are going to do and we're moving forward this way, and i thought the way that he tried to deliver that message, it didn't come across -- it certainly didn't have that sort of emotional connection, and it makes me wonder who is going to direct the narrative in washington? the president has the opportunity to do that, but he's got to do it. the republican leadership in

congress, you know, boehner and mcconnell, i am not sure they are really in charge of the narrative either. it's the extremes, i think, the smaller more liberal democratic caucus in congress, and it knows what it wants to do and the new tea party republicans know what they want to do, and everybody else seems to not. >> you know what is kind of interesting, joe and jean and donny, and all of us here, is to consider the fact that a fast majority of americans, maybe 90% of the americans they get their information and knowledge, the sense of who the president is from tv, from "60 minutes" and the matt lauer interview, and so it races the question who do you think has a better sense of the people of the country, the president sunday night on "60 minutes," or george w. bush with

matt lauer? >> yeah, that's my point. forget other things, but as far as tone and manner, that's the one part that he got, and our president, forget his legislative record, he's still not getting that. >> i don't know that i would say that. i think it's one of the reasons that there is the impression that we are divided as a country, more so than we really are, is because george w. bush seemed to get red state america, and you got him leaning forward saying go get that! he understood the blue color workers that broke democratic in '08, but republican in 2010, but he did not get the coast -- >> we all was a universal go get them! >> i am not talking about that issue. i am saying both of these gentlemen have a blind spot, and

george w. bush had a blind spot for people in connecticut, and new york and california, and barack obama has a blind spot that he does not understand the lives in ohio, or the people in birmingham, alabama. obama is a blue state guy, and george w. bush is a red state guy. i think both of them have a blind spot, and i think that's one of the reasons why this country is divided right now, gene. >> yeah, one thing fascinated about that is the role reversal. george w. bush was born with a silver spoon in his mouth in connecticut to a wealthy and powerful family, and yet he doesn't get the coast, he gets that kind of blue collar thing down to the way that he talks, and barack obama, born and raised in modest circumstances, and lived the american dream,

and yet doesn't have that visarul feel. >> isn't that fascinating? you have one guy born into one of the elite established families and has complete conat the point for ae laeelites, and you have a different gentlemen born into different circumstances, and then -- >> it actually makes sense. >> it's a complete role reversal for both of them. >> yes, it is. it's really fascinating. i think, you know, when the kind of psychological history of this era is written, it's going to be fascinating. >> i will say at some point we can talk about it and i can explain why it makes perfect sense actually. >> explain.

>> you want to connect with the world that you don't understand and embrace it, and compensate, sometimes. >> that's my problems with women. that's it, and that's what happened. >> that is your problem with women. >> that's something we won't be talking about. >> this is not a therapy. we are not putting donny deutsch on the couch, but we are putting the presidents on the couch right now. there is no doubt that george w. bush wanted to break away from the -- his father. he wanted to be his own man. i am not saying he didn't love or respect his father, but he wanted to be his own man, he wanted to be tough texas guy, and it colored i think his view of the world. it's fascinating. >> all right. the former president also went there on an issue that we sparred about a lot on this set, and that would be waterboarding. take a listen. >> let's talk about

waterboarding. we believe here is going to be attacked again, and there is all kinds of intelligence coming in. and one of the high valued al qaeda operatives, and he had information, and i said find out what he knows. and i said to our team are the techniques legal, and a legal team yes they are, and i said use them. >> why is waterboarding legal in your opinion? >> because the lawyer said it was legal. it did not fall within the anti-torture act. i am not a lawyer, but you have to trust the judgment of people around you and i do. i will tell you this, using those techniques saved lives, and my job was to protect america, and i did. >> i cannot believe i am defending george bush. i think those were perfect answers, and if torturing a terrorists would save the life of your child, and there is a

building about to be blown out, we all know the answer to that, and as an ceo, you ask your lawyers, and i feel like a bush guy today, but i think both of the answers are good answers. >> that's where all the warm and fuzzy about george w. bush kind of goes out the window for me. i do think -- i don't think that's forgivable, and i don't think you ask your lawyers about torture. you ask your conscious and your own moral values and you ask your sense of what this country is and isn't. >> not hypothetically, but if you had a child, and if torturing a terrorists would save your child's life, yes or no? >> yes, but -- >> that's what i am saying. >> but when that situation arises, you do what you have to

do. but were we in that specific situation? do you know that the torture, that the guy you are about to torture has the gun to your child's head and is about to pull the trigger? what is the state of your knowledge there, and when is the ticking bomb really ticking? you know, those are not easy questions to answer, but i don't think the answer is, oh, well, you think something bad might happen so just go ahead and torture them. >> there is no answer to those questions, because we don't have answers to those questions, but we do have sort of an insight into the fact that the bullhorn moment lasted a lot longer than just the day. in president bush's mind, clearly that moment, soon they will hear from all of us, and he held that bullhorn for the remainder of what turned out to be two terms as president. i do believe him when he says

his principle interest was the security of the country, and that's what he focused on each and every day, and that governed his actions and behavior. >> you know, mike, i think it was that bullhorn moment, but also this sense of -- guilt is not quite the word, but responsibility that so many senior officials of the bush administration had, i have been told by principles and that administration of how they wracked their brains thinking is there something we could have done to prevent this, is there some sign we should have seen? i am talking about it the personal keep you awake at night? >> yeah, read the memo in august. >> more than a bureaucratic memo level. i think that stayed with them

the entire time they were in office. >> yeah, i agree with you. >> they were driven by it and obsessed by it in a way that ten years later we can't be obsessed by it, and we can't shut down our country for the next 20 or 30 years and fight wars across the planet. i do have to say that this is easy in retrospect seven or eight years later to judge bush and cheney for the decisions they made. all i can tell you is that when the history is written of this time, you will find, again, there is unanimity for the most part on capitol hill among democrats and republicans. one of the reasons nancy pelosi's numbers plummeted was because americans found out that she knew a lot more about this than she led on when she was attacking the cia a few years ago. but i do want to say this, mika, and i don't understand this, and people find it immoral to pour

water on peoples' faces and put them through a severe distress, and some people find it immoral now to sleep deprive terrorists to get information to save americans lives, and yet they have no problem with the united states of america instead of finding terrorists across the globe, taking them and getting information that will save lives, instead of doing that, we are flying a record number of drones, and we're blowing up homes where there may be 15 people in there to kill one person, and we're killing 4 and 5-year-old girls and grandmothers, and killing people ind

indausk indauskimly, and people think it's bad to keep a terrorists up all night. the massive number of drone attacks that we are -- we're not getting intelligence anymore from these people. this is why we're going to be surprised at some point, and americans are going to die at some point from terror attacks because we don't have a program in place anymore to get actionable intel. we're killing them. now, is killing a 4-year-old girl because a terrorists is in the household, is that less morally objectionable than pouring water on a terrorists' face? >> i cannot go to break when he is asking the question, chris. i think it's over simplifying the kau none drurm to make that parallel. if you remember the reason the whole issue came up is because

pictures of our policies being broken and certain members of the forces on the frontlines running amuck, and torture taking place in ways that we did not find it acceptable. and it touched a debate as to where is the line? >> abu ghraib is not waterboarding, and those were two different things. >> it raised the question of where are we in this? >> we are in a dirty fight and you have to fight dirty. >> that is the choice. as you know, i have a lot of people that i know from the days in congress inside the intelligence community, and the choice has been made, we're not going to get intelligence from terrorists, and we're going to kill them and kill everybody around them. so it's not that simple of an overstatement. we have decided to kill lots of people instead of get information, and i am just wondering, is that the moral thing to do? why is that more moral than keeping somebody up all night or

pouring water in their face? >> i think it's important to look at what our policies are and live by them, and we didn't. that's the bottom line. that's just ridiculous. >> i have to make this point, mika, understand our policy now is to kill 4-year-old girls, kill grandmothers, and kill innocent people, and that's our policy now, and do you need pictures from cbs news of a girl's severed head from her body to suddenly say that's an immoral thing to do? understand, that's happening today in pakistan and in afghanistan and across the world, and understand that this administration finds that less morally objectionable than keeping somebody up all night, and i must say i find that very perplexing? >> all right. we'll leave it there. >> americans need to understand it. >> we'll leave it there at 22 past and we'll be back with more "morning joe." engine light means.

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♪ >> it's hard to even imagine what the president could spend $200 million a day on. luckily i did not have to imagine it, and my pundit friends did that for me. >> 40 flames and six armored cars and choppers and dogs, and 34 -- 500 rooms in one hotel? >> and that's not all. he is dining on bald eagles and using the original declaration as a wet nap, and renting a

hanger to help bathe his blue aux. >> that is outrageous. it's 8:27 in the morning. and mr. mike allen has a look at the morning play book. >> good morning, willie. >> we spent weeks, perhaps months hearing the white house leading up to the mid-term elections, and stealing democracy as that one ad said. will it for go using groups in obama's bid -- >> no, they are adapting to their environment. and david axelrod said the president's re-election committee will increase the fund-raising goals in response to all the new money out there, and he says republicans will spend even more. he said if they would spend $200 million on senate races, they will spend $500 million to a

billion dollars on a presidential race, and she asked him again and again, will you forescare encouraging outside groups, and he didn't. he said people will see what is happening and get offended and get involved and that means there will be democratic outside groups and the distinction is the white house will want them to disclose their donors, and it's going to be getting bigger on the republican side. and weber the former congressman tells gene comin comeings. >> they will hope for more transparen transparency, but they won't get it, is that right? >> you are exactly right. coming up, you will hear a much longer excerpt of president bush's interview, but before

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♪ >> welcome back to "morning joe." i am live in chicago, and mika and the crew are in new york city, and erin burnett is down on wall street, and we'll get to her in a second. i got texts during the last

segment -- >> from me? >> no, from susan, my wife, and we know what usually happens when she sends text. she says is there any reason in ticker yelling at the top of your lungs this morning, and i e-mailed back, and i was explaining why i was passion about this debate, and then she said it was ugly, you need to apologize to mika. so mika, i want to say that my wife is correct, and i owe you an apology -- >> actually, joe, i didn't see him yelling at mika. i think your point was compelling, and i did not think you were yelling at mika, but just passionate. >> thank you, donny. i wasn't yelling at mika, but i am so frustrated at the people who think they are taking the moral high ground and what they are doing is killing instant people, and nobody seems to

notice. i don't know. maybe it's because there is a democratic president and the anti-war left doesn't -- i guess people is okay for the anti-war left of the democratic administration, if they are doing it, i don't get it. but anyway, i apology to you mika. >> i don't personally feel like i need one, but i wish we had more time because i enjoy debating issues like this, and weirdly joe, we're both right and there is a policy and there's not enough time. >> joe, how often does she yell at you? is this a daily thing? >> she yells at me a lot. one of the things that i say keep calm and carry on, and if i don't, i know my wife will kick my ass if i don't. erin burnett, give us good news from wall street. >> you will get a tiny better

open, and gold is the story here, and it links to the issue of printing, printing, printing money. how many times can i say printing? 2 million, and that's how it will come out. gold is up. 1,6 -- 1,422 is what it's up to. it's not that there is anything wrong with having gold in your portfolio, and gold has done over the last ten years, but we are still 40% below gold's inflation all-time high in the '80s. gold is not a trade that you go

into if you believe the world is going to be better tomorrow than it is today. so that's a way of looking at it. trade now and make a little money, but if you believe the world is looking ahead gold is not the way to go. if you like the jewelry your wife wears, then buy it. it's like art. don't buy it to make money, buy it because you like it. >> what about my -- >> erin, i'm sorry. [ wind howling ] [ technician ] are you busy? management just sent over these new technical manuals. they need you to translate them into portuguese. by tomorrow. [ male announcer ] ducati knows it's better for xerox

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tell us about the people that don't get it. can you tell us about anybody who comes back completely fine? >> those folks are pretty rare.

>> the only thing you should feel when you shoot an insurgent is recoil. you really have no compassion for human life. you have the total disregard, and maybe the only thing you feel is recoil. >> that was one of the top u.s. commanders talking about post stress syndrome. joining us, the director of the film. >> welcome. >> interesting title "1861 to 2010." you take it all the way back to the civil war? >> yeah, there are firsthand accounts from the civil war post trau mattic stress syndrome. every time a soldier comes to war they come back

psychologically damaged in many, many cases. >> we have talked about it on the show and we have seen so many cases of it coming back from afghanistan and iraq after doing two, three and four tours. what are the first signs of ptsd. how does it start? >> in many cases the things that keep you alive in the war zone, the extreme vigilance and driving down the middle of the road and not obeying any traffic signals and being ready to use violence at any moment are appropriate for the war zone, and it ruined your life back home. >> it tears apart not only your own mind but your family? >> yeah, and the community and family suffers as well. >> guys coming back from world war ii, which the enemy was pretty clear versus the wars that have been more am big russ as far as the enemy, the vietnam

war, is there any difference there? >> for generations we might have thought so but the generation paid a hprice. for the first time, they are coming to terms with the post traumatic stress. >> they use to call it he might be shell shocked, and now it's ptsd, but nobody comes back whole, i would submit, psychologically from combat. so on your film, the examples of an event triggering ptsd, years, you're talking about the world war ii vets, years later. >> everybody might have an uncle or somebody in their family that behaves strangely, and may have alcohol abuse and beat the kids in the family, and for years it was swept under the rug, and even the military swept it under

the rug, and it's recently in part because of an alliance between hbo and the military, they are talking about it openly. this will be shown to all of our men and women and we are starting a conversation that should have been started a long time ago. >> the conversation that you are having in the film with assorted veterans, we live in a country today where few people have an investment in the war, and what is the impact of that in terms of the treatment of these people? >> it's one of the reason why hbo made one of the films, because on an average sunday, people are thinking about the football games and you just had a report on investing in gold to beat the economic situation, and meanwhile we have people serving for us and we have to pay attention to it. >> what do we do about that? are we getting better at it? we're more aware of it now, but

is the government or outside groups doing more to treat ptsd? >> i think everybody has to take part and get rid of the stigma associated with a mental illness. for a long time you were thought to be less heroic, and less of a good soldier, but in many cases, you can deal with it honestly. military one source is an important way we have to pay attention to it, everybody. >> mika, we do a great job and somebody said this on the set a couple weeks ago, we do a great job remembering our fallen heroes that die at war, and we don't do a great job in this country remembering the men and women who survived and came home with a lot of challenges. mika, we have to do a much better job, and this film will get some people focused in the right direction? >> i hope so.

it's called "war torn," and it debuts this thursday at 9:00 on hbo. thank you so much for sharing a part of it with us, a that's veteran's day, so perfect timing for sure. and then portions of president bush's interview that we have not shown you yet coming up. with capital one's venture card, we get double miles on every purchase. echo! so we earned a trip to the grand canyon twice as fast. uhoh. we get double miles every time we use our card. i'll take these. no matter what we're buying. plus the damages. and since double miles add up quick, we can bring the whole gang. it's hard to beat double miles. no, we ride them. [ male announcer ] get the venture card from capital one and earn double miles on every purchase, every day. go to capitalone.com. what's in your wallet? oh, that's the spot! - lunteered. - i was drafted. - i enlisted. - i was nervous.

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♪ >> we have more now from matt lauer's extensive interview with former president bush.

here he opens up about the emotional relationship with his father, and the story with alcohol. >> tell me about the story about the dinner party. >> here is one of the worse. >> we want the worse. >> well, you found it. i am drunk, and i am sitting there at dinner, and i said to a woman, a friend of mom and dad's, and i said to her out loud, what is sex like after 50? and silence, and serious daggers. >> from your mom? >> yeah, and my wife. >> alcohol had a control over you and you did not have control over alcohol? >> right. >> he said his faith helped him. the rumors would start to go

around and say he's drinking again, so talk to me. during the most stressful times during your presidency, 9/11, and katrina, you never fell off the wagon? >> no, not a sip. >> not a temptation? >> no, i was through. >> eight years after he took his last drink, the son of george w. bush won his first election. >> you learn a little about the relationship between you and your father in a letter that he wrote to you in your inauguration in the governor of texas. do you have your glasses? >> i can't read it. here is the thing you have to understand, if you want to weep, let me read some of the letters he wrote to me. >> let me read part of it? >> thank you for doing that. >> i got my navy wings at corpus

christi, and i want you to have them now for in a censor getting your wings as you take the both of office as our governor, and you have sacrificed for us and given your unwavering loyalty and devotion, and now it's our turn. >> yeah, and so -- as i said, i could barely get through it listening to you read it. yeah, there is a stuff out there that he and i compete, and i am trying to overshadow my father, but a lot of people would be surprised to learn that this relationship is based upon love. i admire -- >> why would people be surprised by that? he's your father. >> it's not as complex as some would like it to be, i admired him and he never disappointed me, and he was always a great father. when it came time to run for president, i was motivated in large part -- look, i wanted to run and i had an agenda and team

of people, but the truth is the final motivating factor was my admiration of george bush, and i wondered whether or not i had what it took to get in the arena like he did. >> a couple days after 9/11, you gave a speech at the national cathedral. >> we are here in the middle hour of our grief -- >> as you stood there delivering your powerful speech, the one place you dared not look is the pew containing your mother and father and laura. >> yeah, i wanted to make sure the speech was one where i was able to deliver the message without being too emotional. during the speech i looked out and i saw the service men crying, and i thought i better focus, and then i realized that the one place that would cause me to have serious emotions would be watching laura and looking at -- looking at laura and mom and dad, so i didn't. >> you finished the speech and walked down, and as you sat down, i will never forget it,

your dad reached over and just put his hand on your hand. >> yeah, he did. it was a touching moment. i have seen the replay of that, and my recollection is still the same, and that was like, good going, son, i love you. it was just an expression of love and very powerful. >> mike, those are some of the warmer, fuzzier moments of the interview. the deeper content, his answers to questions about iraq, abu ghraib, and katrina, and it probably would not satisfy his critics on the left who were watching last night? >> nobody will satisfy his critics on the left, but what that shows is a portrait of a father and son and a family, and a deeply loving family. be with them for a few seconds and you realize that the father loves the father and the son loves the father and, and mistakes were made. you cannot disagree with the fact that it's a truly whole family. >> mike, you have -- you were up

with the bushes this summer, visited them, and i did as well, and they -- they are like any other proud parents. they talk about their sons. they talk about their daughter, and they are so proud of their kids. if you are with jeb or george w. or sons or daughters, they talk about their mom and dad with such reverence and love, and george w. is right, it ain't that complex. in the end, it all comes down to a family that loves one another. >> well, that says it right there. up next, what if anything did we learn today? let's hope today perhaps something sticks. we'll be right back. (jennifer garner) there's a lot of beautiful makeup out there

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the smartest thing you could do is cut the fuel supply, unlock the doors, and turn on the hazards. or get a car that does it for you. ♪

i am excited to be here, and well can come to my new show, and it's called "conan."

people asked me why i named it "conan," and i did it so i would be harder to replace. >> time to talk about what we learned today. joe, you first. >> i learned the consecutive streak, and it's almost like demauz yoe here. donny deutsch is on, and we get negative e-mails, and that continues today. >> rich rights exactly how much time and money is spent on donny's hair, and at what time will he start to do pushups this morning? >> well, i just got a towel, and -- >> well, what is the answer, chris? >> it's 62% of our operating budget. we wanted to go longer with dan bartlett, but we could not. >> it's because of his hair. >> there must be something to