it spot on about michele bachmann. thanks, jonathan. >> good to see you, ed. earlier tonight we asked in our telephone survey, would you like to see george w. bush face prosecution for authorizing waterboarding? 90% of you said, yes. 10% of you said, no. that's "the ed show." i'm yeds schultz. more information on "the ed show" go to ed.msnbc.com. or where we blog at we got ed.com. you can comment on all of the news stories. "hardball" with chris matthews starts right now. we'll see you tomorrow night from minneapolis. traveling man. let's play "hardball." good evening, i'm chris matthews in washington. leading off tonight, where in the world is barack obama? last friday the same week the president lost control of congress, he left the country for asia. first from india. then from indonesia, we got

pictures of him and the first lady dancing with the local people. it was all in traditional costume, all very festive. the question today, is this any way to treat an american elect orate, an angry elect orate to hold a press conferencea, anounce no new changes and leave town the same they that speaker pelosi says that she's staying? what's the message here? that the message of the voter lies in the inbox at the white house? we'll get to it when we get time. we'll get to it when we get back into the country, okay. he had the g-20 meeting, but that was tomorrow. why did he have to leave last friday? a full week ahead of that meeting. and once more, it look like the white house may give into republican demands to extend all of the bush-era tax cuts including for the rich. at least temporarily. how does the president deal with those crosswinds? plus, tempestuest tea parentiers are piping hot to knock off the next crop of republican senators up for re-election in 2012. the big question, can olympia snowe and orrin hatch avoid the fates of some of their

republican colleagues? can they outlive the right? saying gay service members can serve openly without significant risk on the battlefield. and defense secretary robert gates said he'd like to see the repeal of don't ask, don't tell by year's end. so there's just one big obstacle to ending don't ask, don't tell, the republican party. and let me finish with some thoughts about why the government neids to take control of its debt just as -- well as our country needs to take control properly. of our borders. is that asking too much that they do the basics? let's start with president obama. over there. mark penn's a democratic strategist. and howard fineman is an msnbc political analyst. we talk a lot about optics whether seems to be the way that people convey. they're tired of listening to the president's words, words, words but how he reacts and responds to the voters last tuesday is important i think to the voters. my surmise they don't like the fact he left town. your thoughts, mark? >> well, i think it's -- it's perfectly typical. after a midterms for a president to focus on some international

travel and agenda because he's obviously had to push that off while he worked on the midterms so i think a good thing to take the trip. i think that he needs some time to think about it is how is he really going to answer what the voters said on election day? he hasn't really given them a clear answer yet. it took bill dlont really formulate that answer. don't expect things overnight. maybe today with the tax cut discussion, maybe we've begun to see a real answer. >> howard, we'll get do that in a minute but a great comment by one of those republicans that were in office after the civil war, who said there was political boss, someone like mark hannah. something that we should look like we're doing? i mean, aren't there things that president should appear to be doing, shaking up the cabinet, shaking up the white house staff? doing things that show, i got it, i got the message. you're upset about the economy. i'm going to try to upgrade my effort. i'm going to enhance the effort that i've got here to fix the problems. >> well, i spent a good bit of time over at the white house yesterday. and i got the sense that they're operating on their own schedule. i think that they always operated it that way. i think that's how they ran the

presidential campaign. they have a certain inperish ability about them. and by golly he was going to go do it. meanwhile around the white house they've literally taken all of the carpets out and redoing stuff. >> oh that'll make us feel better. >> but i don't sense among the people there who are left behind. >> you see you make my point. >> including david axelrod, no, wait that they're thinking of changing thing in any dramatic way. >> that's my point we have elections for a purpose. >> defensive posture right now. >> look you're a political expert, you're a political expert. it seems to me that election's always accomplish two goals, they decide who runs the country and they send a message. the message the voters this time was we want change. is he going to give it to them, mark pennn. >> i think that if he agrees to extend the tax cuts for everybody, that will be a real sign that, a, he's going to change. but, b, don't be fooled by whatever people are thinking or doing in the white house today. when president clinton made changes, the white house didn't

know about it until he was well along in those change with us. >> he went around and pushed people like the brains who got him in there, and carville and begala. texas. george stephanopoulos and brought in the wonderful dick morris. he was doing that pretty quickly, wasn't he? >> people didn't really know that. >> but wasn't he doing that? didn't he hit the panic button before we knew about it. >> look the real event here is going to be, what's going to happen between now and the state of the union, what's going to happen to the tax cuts? the president's going to spend i think the holidays thinking, how is he going to respond? they looked at a truck that's been hitting them and aiming towards the democrats since the scott brown election. it hit. and now they have to swerve. they know they have to swerve. i can't believe they don't know that. >> have to respond in an active way, not just say, yeah, we'll try a little harder. it seems to me that every government that gets rocked like this doesn't change. the show that we're paying attention. the voters eye don't know how many times i have to say this tonight the voters are angry. tay want to see you get it.

>> i think that that's right. i can report to you the sense that i have is of them, and they are -- i agree with mark's saying. they're going to take their time. they're going to see what cards the republicans are going to lay on the table. and they're going to -- they're in a defensive posture, where they're going to seed ground on various points until they figure out what to do, and quite frankly, they haven't figured out what the response is going to be yet. they have not figured it out but i do not sense and mark may be right, things are going on in the plane in asia that we don't know about that they're going to make wholesale changes. >> no big chief executive coming in, like no chief of staff coming, no heavyweight. >> we don't know. >> we don't know. >> but they're already -- some of the top people are going to leave in the early spring. i get the sense that they're eager to get back to chicago, some these people, to begin thinking how to run a campaign again. because they don't know what to do with the congress yet. they have no idea. >> in other words, they'd rather not be the incumbent. >> yes. >> rather start all over again.

>> exactly. hit the recess button. >> they don't get that deal. >> i know. >> let's fake a look at your report today "we have to deal with the world as it is, axelrod said. the world whether it takes to get this done. there are concern, he added, that congress will continue to kick the can down the road in the future. by passing temporarily extensions for the wealthy time and time again but i don't want to trade away security for the middle class in order to make that point." i read in that what i think that youed in that in your reporting that the white house's basically saying, if we've got to give tax cuts to the rich, to get them for the regular people, we'll do it. >> yes. and i think that -- i think that david axelrod, with whom we had a 90-minute interview late yesterday afternoon, was clearly moving the thing a little farther down the road, and conceding what most people, not most, but a lot of people in town think is obvious. that because of the political situation in the lame-duck congress and because of the procedural situation, the white house has no choice, or doesn't want to take the risk of trying to veto a bill that has the tax cuts for the rich.

>> let's take a look at david letterman on the point that i start with tonight. this sense that te president's listening. for everybody to respond like you say to show real change. >> well there's no choice. >> okay, well -- >> that's not a plan. that's a lack of choice. >> the impact that is suggesting moving to the middle. >> right. >> here he is, david letterman last night taking a chop at president in his monologue. let's listen. >> president obama's in india right now, he's over there visiting our jobs. [ laughter ] thank you. >> mark penn, i think about states like pennsylvania, ohio, indian aillinois, wisconsin, they'd all bit back at the president last tuesday. i keep asking myself don't you think that the working guy thinks that that's not really a chuckle? they do think that their jobs have gone overseas because of the u.s. policy. >> that's single toughest job for the president in the next two years. the devastation, politically, of democrats in the midwest and the south is really where this election's going to be. and that's going to be about jobs and how you use trade policy to open markets, in the

right way to create jobs, and if you can't make that case and do that right, he cannot get re-elected. >> well it is true, chris that going abroodf broad at this wayt time isn't helping him reverse his image that a lot of people had against him that voting against him this time is that he just doesn't really understand the urgency of this situation. of people who've lost their jobs. >> yeah, he's out there getting another nobel prize summer. >> he's giving another speech of how we have to understand the world and rest of that and it plays into that perception that really influenced a lot of independent voters in this election. because the polls show that a lot of people thought that he didn't have the sense of urgency that they wanted him to have. >> and, basic economic nationalism, you know we watch pat buchanan all of those years and we think that he's a bit of a zealot when he comes out against trade and any kind of trade, where are the voters that right now. >> well, look right now -- >> are they with pat right now. >> the voters are in both directions. they want to make sure that america's not taken advantage in the global economy, but they realize america has to be a piece of it.

you see it's a fine line. notice the president took trade, policy, and he pushed it until after the midterms. he thought that would be a more hospitalable time to talk trade, he didn't realize maybe a less hospitable time so he need a comprehensive economic strategy and that means opening markets the right way. >> they sort of pasted the jobs label on this trip. >> yeah. >> once they realized -- >> sell it. >> the poor timing of it. they -- and then suddenly it became a trip all about jobs which if they had a ton of jobs to bring back and crow about a long, long list of them that would be different. >> what we've gotten today it looks like they're changing policy on taxes. a big tax cut for everybody -- or maintaining lower taxes of bush, that'll look like a move to the center. you say that's a positive sign of change. >> absolutely. >> still open to question. change the administration itself. bring in new people in or show the kind of shake-up like clinton did. >> it will take a few months. >> a few months. state of the union. >> yeah. >> thanks, we learned a lot

today. mark penn, thank you for joining us. howard fineman. with you on this story. coming up, reigning in the national debt. we've got preliminary recommendations from the two chairman of the president's bipartisan deficit commission. and the pressure groups on both sides of trying to puncture it. but doesn't a tough problem mean tough solutions? we'll talk to the senate budget chairman, kent conrad. and they care enough to get to know you, too. nobody sells more real estate than re/max. visit remax.com today.

funny how nature just knows how to make things that are good for you. new v8 v-fusion + tea. one combined serving of vegetables and fruit with the goodness of green tea and powerful antioxidants. refreshingly good. well, here's the latest from alaska, ended a second day of counting write-in ballots from that senate race up there. so far more than 97% of the write-in ballots went to lisa murkowski, nearly 90% of those write-in ballots went unchallenged by joe miller's campaign and only 276 ballots challenged by the miller campaign, were tossed out. that's bad news for the miller campaign, which trails in the write-in ballots by about 11,000 votes. the count's expected to last three more days. we'll be right back. it looks like lisa murkowski's getting re-elected up there.

if you live for performance, upgrade to castrol edge advanced synthetic oil. with eight times better wear protection than mobil 1. castrol edge. it's more than just oil. it's liquid engineering. affect wheat output in the u.s., the shipping industry in norway, and the rubber industry in south america? at t. rowe price, we understand the connections of a complex global economy. it's just one reason over 75% of our mutual funds beat their 10-year lipper average. t. rowe price. invest with confidence. request a prospectus or summary prospectus with investment objectives, risks, fees, expenses, and other information to read and consider carefully before investing.

welcome back to "hardball." former republican senator alan simpson and former clinton white house chief of staff erskine bowles the two chairman of president obama's bipartisan deficit commission gave pressure groups on all sides a chance to complain yesterday when they released a draft of recommendations to fix the country's fiscal mess. they made recommendations in five big areas -- cut discretionary spending, overhaul the tax code, cut health care costs, cut entitlement spending including an overall of social security. those are big ideas that will run into big opposition that haven't already. democratic senator kent conrad of north dakota is a member of the commission and chairman of the senate budget committee. you know, senator, years and years ago i worked on the senate budget committee and all of this sounds familiar. the minute that you try to cut the debt or the deficit in this case and you have a wide-ranging balanced program, at least the way that i look at it, that hurts everybody, everybody complains. they don't say, hey, you hit the

other guy harder than you did me. all that they complain about is their issue. what's going to happen? >> you know, these groups, once again, have revealed what they care about is themselves. they don't apparently care about the country. because we are spending much more than we can afford. we're borrowing 40 cents of every $1 that we spend. clearly that can't continue much longer. and yet, their answer is, do nothing. that cannot be the answer. and what the two chairmen have come forward and said, is look, we've got to get the debt and the deficits under control. we got to reduce the projected shortfall by $4 trillion over the next ten years. and they have proposed a comprehensive program to do it. well, they deserve our support. you know, we can argue about the specifics. hopefully we'll have a chance to improve package, but at the end of the day, we need something of this magnitude to get the country back on track.

>> you know, i hear are there 90-year-old people out there complaining about this requirement that you don't get social security until 69 in 2050, in 2050! this is not an extreme proposal. and the fact is if liberals complain i would point to the fact that this extends the coverage of the payroll tax all the way up to $190,000 a year, you will not get benefits up to that level, you'll pay a lot more tax fes you make more money. it seems getting rid of the capital gains preference, for income taxation, boy that will drive business crazy. it just seems balanced to me. does it help that it's balanced or will the liberals complain about liberal programs, the conservatives about business programs? >> you know, i always think it helps if it's balanced. look, herepse the situation, spending is the highest it has been in 60 years as a share of our economy. revenue is the lowest it's been in 60 years as a share of our economy. so obviously, you've got to work both sides of the equation. what the two chairmen came out

with was a proposal to do away, one option. they had three options on revenue. one was do away with all of the tax expenditures. that will raise over a trillion dollars. over the next ten years. >> those are what we call loopholes. >> yeah. they dedicate 90% of that to lowering income tax rates. a dramatic reduction in income rates in exchange for doing away with all of the tax preferences, all of the tax loopholes, all of the tax favoritism that's in this system. now you know, i would prefer not to go that far. i would prefer to retain some of the mortgage deductions. some the child care credit. but we do need thorough-going tax reform to put this country on a more competitive basis going forward and to reduce our deficit. and they have combined it with major spending cuts. 75% of this plan is spending cuts. 25% is revenue. and, yet, we see some those

groups, howling. well you can't raise any new revenue. >> yeah that's global noise. >> yeah, norquist, the same old song from him. thaul he cares about is a narrow group who finances his efforts. apparently he doesn't care about the country. he just cares about a napero group that finances his efforts, and look, the left has got the same problem. they are so focused just on themselves that they forget about our country. and our country requires us to be bold, and brave and to get something done. >> yeah, well h.l. lincoln once said, never argue with someone's job is convinced. the people watching right now who understand. is this going to be like the base closing commission report, where it comes out with a big proposal -- if they get the 14 votes commission members out of 18. if that goes to the president's desk has he committed to backing this deficit reduction effort? is he committed? >> no, he was not.

and you know, that's understandable. he's got to see the product first. this is just the beginning. this is the proposal of the two chairmen. bipartisan. but the commission, itself, has now got to render a judgment. if we can get 14 of 18 members to agree on a proposal and then it advances, if we can't it dies. >> do you think it'll happen in the next congress? or this congress? >> it's very hard for me to see how it would happen in this congress, although that was the plan that senator gregg and i proposed when we proposed this commission some three years ago. but we had, as you recall, one that was enforced by law. we didn't guest a supermajority vote in the senate for that proposal, so the president did the next best thing. he put it in place by executive order, which means that we don't have an assurance of a vote. we have the prospect of getting one but not the assurance. >> yeah, okay, i wish the guys who were defeating could vote for us. their last good act for the

count row and leave, but anyway that's the thought. thank you, senator kent conrad of north dakota. thank you for joining us. we're joined now by politico's assistant managing edor gene cummings. your thoughts. you've been covering this like i have for a while, involved in it. do you think any chance this, this country can get serious about reducing its debt? we talk about it. it's up to $14 trillion. it's really going to be all that we do is raise money from the taxpayer to pay interest payments. it's almost reached that point. just to transfer payment now from hard-working people to tea bondholders in china. your thoughts? >> well, i tell you, chris, this might be of -- it's possible that there is an opportunity here and hear me out because i know these things usually collapse and, frankly, the odds still are that this will collapse. but one of the key message's out of this election is a great deal of concern about the size of government spending and deficit and so you have these tea party candidates or these very conservative candidates coming

to washington, who embrace those concerns and who are under a whole lot of pressure to demonstrate. >> yeah. >> that they're going to do something about it. on the other hand, you have a group of -- a large group of democrats in the senate who are going to be up for re-election in two years, who've just seen what happened to their colleagues. especially on this issue. and so i think there's an incentive for democrats and the president to put some deficit reduction credentials on their resumes as well. so it's possible we could see some deals, smaller than this big package, that are worked out so that both sides can say that they did do something. >> let's take a look at the tax issue, which affects a lot of people directly. here it is. people with their tax cuts. here's the president, last week, the day after the midterms. last wednesday, eight days ago, talking about what he might do on the tax cut. let's listen. >> my goal is to make sure that

we don't have a huge spike in taxes for middle-class families. my goal is to sit down with speaker-elect boehner, and mitch mcconnell, harry, and nancy sometime in the next few weeks. and see where we can move forward in a way that, first of all, does no harm. that extends those tax cuts that are very important for middle-class families. and how that negotiation works itself out, i think it's too early to say. >> it seemed to be a key point he was making there. do no harm. in other words, his primary goal, it seems to be, jeanne, is cut, make sure that the middle class don't get hit with a higher tax rate come january, even at expense of litting the rich have the same deal. that's the way they read it and then howard feinman's been reporting today going further with axelrod's comments that clearly suggest that they're willing to talk about a continuation for everybody's tax cuts.

>> well, that's definitely the signal that both the president and axelrod delivered over the last few days. i think axelrod was a little more explicit than the president. his was a subtle signal, and axelrod's wasn't. and i think what this is, chris, you and i both know, this is reality politics. >> yeah. >> i mean, what can they really get through in the senate when you have moderate to conservative democrats who are saying that they are not prepared to increase taxes on the wealthy during this economy. the votes aren't there. >> and the worst thing that could happen -- it seems to be -- i will try this as the last question. it seemsy to moot worst thing that could is the democratic-led congress this year, this fall, doesn't pass the tax cut. the people face higher taxes next january. in come the republican-dominated house, and more republicans in the senate, like the cavalry coming to save the taxpayer, they do go ahead and cut taxes for everyone. and the president's forced to sign it. the republicans are the big heroes.

the democrats really look like the bad guys. that's my thought about what they must knbe afraid of. >> igree you complete be. and that's not to increase taxes on anybody who makes $2 -- and any families making $250,000 or under. >> ah. powerful point. thank you so much, jeanne cummings for joining us. up next, what does christine o'donnell think of bill mohr arch mohr released all of those wacky clips of hers? you'll be surprised.800-34 2550 like it's some kind of dream. tdd# 1-800-345-2550 it's either this magic number i'm supposed to reach, or... tdd# 1-800-345-2550 it's beach homes or it's starting a vineyard. tdd# 1-800-345-2550 come on! tdd# 1-800-345-2550 just help me figure it out in a practical, tdd# 1-800-345-2550 let's-make-this-happen kind of way. tdd# 1-800-345-2550 a vineyard? give me a break. tdd# 1-800-345-2550 [ male announcer ] looking for real-life answers tdd# 1-800-345-2550 to your retirement questions? tdd# 1-800-345-2550 get real. get started. talk to chuck. tdd# 1-800-345-2550 i was living on welfare and supporting a family of four.

after i got the job at walmart, things started changing immediately. then i wrote a letter to the food stamp office. "thank you very much, i don't need your help any more." you know now, i can actually say i bought my home. i knew that the more i dedicated... the harder i worked, the more it was going to benefit my family. this my son, mario and he now works at walmart. i believe mario is following in my footsteps. my name is noemi, and i work at walmart. ♪ [ male announcer ] an everyday moment can turn romantic anytime. and when it does, men with erectile dysfunction can be more confident in their ability to be ready with cialis for daily use. cialis for daily use is a clinically proven low-dose tablet you take every day, so you can be ready anytime the moment's right. ♪ tell your doctor about your medical condition and all medications, and ask if you're healthy enough for sexual activity. don't take cialis if you take nitrates for chest pain,

as this may cause an unsafe drop in blood pressure. [ man ] don't drink alcohol in excess with cialis. side effects may include headache, upset stomach, delayed backache, or muscle ache. to avoid long-term injury, seek immediate medical help for an erection lasting more than 4 hours. if you have any sudden decrease or loss in hearing or vision, stop taking cialis and call your doctor right away. [ male announcer ] ask your doctor if cialis for daily use is right for you. for a 30-tablet free trial offer, go to cialis.com.

back to "hardball." and time for the "sideshow." first up, life after politics, christine o'donnell turned on the charm with jay leno last night. she even had nice things to say about bill mohr, who was of course the guy who put out those infamous clips of o'donnell talking about evolution, and

unless we all forget witchcraft. >> my sister and i were watching the show when bill -- when bill you know made his threat and i just thought you know, whether it's comedian it's. >> what's that. >> well that he was going to keep airing the clips until i went on the show and whether it's a comedian or a terrorist you should not respond to threats. >> okay. >> so it's a shame. but i do -- i do like bill mohr and i was grateful for the time that he gave me on my show but -- >> you're single. >> yes. >> right. carville and -- >> if that going doesn't mind being wrong a lot, and then sure, sure i could. >> o'donnell's talking about a book deal. who actually writes these things anyway? a reality show i can see that, and you guessed it, another run for political office. speaking of outgoing minnesota governor tim pawlenty's gearing up to start his book tour and campaign for president. the problem is thyear's minnesota's governor race, isn't resolved yet. in fact in automatic recount is set to start later this month. remember that state's 2008

recount in the al franken sentate race it took eight months to get done. pawlenty's his book "courage to stand" comes out january 11th. aides say "the new york times" the book tour will happen one way or the. i thought that has book should be called "good paulenty. "earlier this week alan west, a tea partier tapped conservative radio host joyce kaufman to be his new chief of staff. among ms. kaufman's greatest hits well she called speaker pelosi garbage. she said illegal immigrants who commit crimes in this country should be hanged and their bodies shipped out of the country. oh yeah, and this. if ballots don't work, bullets will. god it sounds like sharron angle. congressman-elect west announced today with deep regret that kauffman declined his offer to be his new chief of staff. west add, however that he will always seek joyce's council so he can be what he calls a good representative of his congressional district. time now for tonight's "big number."

president george w. bush made his comeback this week, how did it go? on its first day the book sold $220,000 copy. random house's highest opening day sale since president clinton's autoo biography. gets a strong start. 220,000 sold. tonight's "big number." up next -- the tea party's look for a few more scalps in 2012 and it has its eyes on senator orrin hatch of utah and olympia snowe up in maine. how worried should they be? i'd say a lot. our strategists join us next. you're watching "hardball" only on msnbc. that can simulate head injuries and helps make people safer. then they shared this technology with researchers at wake forest to help reduce head injuries on the football field. so, you know, i can feel a bit better about my son playing football. [ male announcer ] how would you use toyota technology to make a better world? learn how to share your ideas at toyota.com/ideasforgood.

[ smack! ] [ smack! smack! smack! ] [ male announcer ] your favorite foods fighting you? fight back fast with tums. calcium rich tums goes to work in seconds. nothing works faster. ♪ tum ta tum tum tums

hello, everyone. i'm page hopkins. here's what's happening. 4,500 passengers and crew are back on dry land. that disabled carnival cruise ship was towed safely into port

in san diego. passengers say they're glad the ordeal is over, but praise the ship's crew for their, quote, excellent care. investigators in north carolina say, there may be a break in the case of a 10-year-old girl missing for more than a month. police say they found valuable evidence near a creek in the girl's hometown. and overseas, iraqi lawmakers elected kurdish leader jalal talabani as president despite a last-minute walkout by a sunni bloc demanding the repeal of de-baathification. a daring insurgent attack in karachi left at least 15 people dead. nissan recalling 1,600 cars due to steering or battery cable problems and already heating up. walmart joining jcpenney and target for online orders. now back to "hardball."

welcome back to "hardball." the republicans may have just fought successfully in the 2010 midterms but they're already potentials coming up in the next election. orrin hatch and olympia snowe may be at risk of a tea party challenge. and being defeated. joining me now is our strategist, republican todd harris, who's in the middle of all of this. and democrat steve mcmahon. you're going to enjoy this fight for a second, steve. i'm talking to you, brother. >> i will love it. >> too t seems to me that orrin hatch voted against health care. he is a what was happening to his partner, robert bennett. it wasn't good enough for the tea party. they blew him now the that convention. does olympia snowe face defeat at hands of a far right up in maine, orrin hatch and a far right in the utah. >> i think that both of them are going to -- the one thing that benefits both of them is that they have the benefit now of hindsight because they watched what happened to bennet. and the fact is that -- >> yeah, but democrats saw this

crap coming for a year and couldn't do anything about it. >> but it wasn't just that bennet wasn'tu than they didn't view him as being conservative enough, it was also he wasn't working his base. and that's what happens when you're in washington for too long. let me totally be clear about something, if i lived in delaware i would have voted for mike castle in the republican primary, but having said that, the fact that a guy who's been in washington this long couldn't get 30,000 people to vote for him in a republican -- that's all that you need in delaware to win a republican primary and he couldn't do it. he ran on being -- he ran as being part of the establishment. as having experience and he was a little tone-deaf. >> take a look at these, steve, look at these, the republicans who are going to face the heat the right if conditions continue with the bad economy and the anger against anything that looks like centrism from the right. ten senate seat of thes are up in 2012. coming rather quickly if you're one of those guys or women. terms coming to an end. wyoming's john barrasso. massachusetts scott brown of

course he just there a two-year term. tennessee's bob corker. who beat harold browne -- howard ford. and nevada's john ensign. utah's orrin hatch. kay bailey hutchison of texas. arizona's jon kyl. lugar. maine's olympia snowe and mississippi's wicker who took trent lott's place. fairly new members of congress like scott brown. your thoughts, are you happy to to see them knocked off by crazies on the right, to put it bluntly. >> bluntly and honestly, yes, i am actually because they'll get knocked off by crazies on the right and if you look at the tea parent's record with their crazies on the right, starting with christine o'donnell and going to alaska with joe miller and nevada with sharron angle. >> he tacts like -- >> and colorado with buck. >> he looks like andy warhol 15 minutes are up for that guy. >> one of two things, produced nominees who couldn't win or they've produced nominees who made it possible for democratic candidates who are severely

vulnerable to win or they've put democrats in play where they shouldn't be in play. if olympia snowe gets primary by a tea party candidate and that tea party candidate wins, that seat is going to go to the democratic candidate. anyplace where it's a purple or a blue state represented by a republican, if the tea party nominee comes out, i'd be willing to bet that the tea party candidate loses. and i think in red states where you know like orrin hatch, if he stepped out and did what lisa murkowski did right now he'd probably win. so i think you're going to see some temptations on some these senator's parts to not participate in the tea party -- process and to step out and do it on their own. >> inconveniently on himself. if you were right, orrin hatch i mean joe sestak, would had been better off running up against orrin hatch, i mean -- arlen specter in pennsylvania. the fact is that arlen specter was probably not as strong of a candidate as the tea party backed pat toomey. so you're wrong, steve. >> well, no, i mean it depends on his states. so pennsylvania. >> well of course, everything

depends on the state. but a blue state. a blue state where the winger -- the winger -- >> chris, each one of these states is going to have -- it's own unique circumstances. >> yeah. >> in a republican red state a tea party candidate who gets nominated could actually win, but in a republican red state, like lisa murkowski's the republican senator can step out. and can be elected anyway. it wouldn't work. but in utah it might. >> look at what's happening in utah you make a good point there. according to a recent mason-dixon poll out there among registered voters, always a tricky number. registered voters probably make sense a lot of people vote. if hatch's re-election held now 40% said that they'd vote to re-elect him. 48% said to dump him for someone else. and 12% said no, no. that's not a great re-elect number, 40%. >> it's not a great number but also an irrelevant number. poll of registered voters two years out from the election doesn't mean a whole lot. you've already seen signs -- >> it means something.

>> it means nothing. >> oh, yeah. >> it's not worth the paper it's written on. >> oh okay you don't think that he's a little scared. >> listen, listen. >> hold on. >> probably the mentality that robert bennet had, don't worry about polls year out? >> no my point is that i think that hatch, snowe and some these other members have learned from watching what happened to bennet and you already see hatch taking steps in utah. >> yeah. >> to solidify his base of support. >> let's talk about a guy who i once voted for that's michael steele and i will continue to vote for any african-american candidate until we have at least one in the united states senate. that will be a principle of mine. it san absolute embarrassment in this country that a country like ours has no african-american united states senators starting now because burris is now out and kirk's in. does it bother you in no black senators in the united states. >> yeah i'd love to see it. >> just the principle. >> we just elected two new african-american republicans to congress. >> to the house, yeah, yeah. does it bother you, steve, that no black senators?

>> yes, it does. and listen, i think that michael steele would be glad to know that you're a supporter and i think that he probably wishes that you were an rnc member right now because he needs your vote. >> now that you've stepped on my shoulders to make a brilliant point, go for it. >> well, listen, poor michael steele, i meantime first african-american chairman of the republican parent is now being run out by the usual crowd that doesn't think that he did a sufficiently good job, whatever it was he was supposed to do. i don't know if michael steele was supposed to win 80 seats or 90 seats or a hundred seats. what it would have taken to make them happy but obviously they're unhappy with michael steele. they've got all kinds of candidates. >> i'm sorry you were good to that but go to the republican. why knock a guy who has a winning record like babe ruth? from the time that he got in there, won new jersey, virginia, scott brownin massachusetts. i almost took the sen estimate what do you want, the governor's chair, six of them. >> here's the bottom line for the chairman's race. you can't beat somebody with nobody and every king's court -- >> why should you.

>> every king's court's got barons and dukes who think that they've got a better job and love to talk about it but until somebody steps forward and says i am going to challenge michael steele. >> i love that the way that republicans talk. barons and dukes, they're more familiar with that setting. anyway, we talk you know democratic politics. >> oh, yeah. >> the republican politics. >> lower "r." thank you todd harris and steve mcmahon. up next, today is veterans day, of course. and the pentagon's concluded there would be little risk to getting -- well at least the majority voter of the people over there in that report that's gotten leaked. they don't think that there would be a big problem with letting gays serve openly in the military. a big development and that's ahead. this is "hardball" only on msnbc.ve a b . and inside that box is their financial life. people wake up and realize i better start doing something. we open up that box. we organize it. and we make decisions. we really are here to help you. they look back and think, "wow. i never thought i could do this."

but we've actually done it. [ male announcer ] visit ameriprise.com and put a confident retirement more within reach. ♪ i can't find it. ♪ [ female announcer ] new tide with acti-lift technology helps remove many dry stains as if they were fresh. hey! you found it. yeah, it must have been hiding in my closet. [ female announcer ] new tide with acti-lift. style is an option. clean is not. get acti-lift in these tide detergents. president obama commemorated veterans day over in south korea. there he is today. the president laid a wreath at the war memorial. alongside u.s. troops and veterans of course of the korean war. the young garrison is home to

25,000 american military personnel who make up the united states forces that are still based over there. guarding the dmz. "hardball" will be right back. if you live for performance, upgrade to castrol edge advanced synthetic oil. with eight times better wear protection than mobil 1. castrol edge. it's more than just oil. it's liquid engineering. if you're taking an antidepressant and still feel depressed, one option your doctor may consider is adding abilify. abilify treats depression in adults when added to an antidepressant. some people had symptom improvement in as early as one to two weeks after adding abilify. now with the abilify (me+) program, your first two weeks of abilify can be free. abilify is not for everyone. call your doctor if your depression worsens or you have unusual changes in behavior,

or thoughts of suicide. antidepressants can increase these in children, teens and young adults. elderly dementia patients taking abilify have an increased risk of death or stroke. call your doctor if you have high fever, stiff muscles and confusion to address a possible life-threatening condition. or if you have uncontrollable muscle movements, as these could become permanent. high blood sugar has been reported with abilify and medicines like it. in some cases, extreme high blood sugar can lead to coma or death. other risks include decreases in white blood cells, which can be serious, dizziness upon standing, seizures, trouble swallowing, and impaired judgment or motor skills. adding abilify has made a difference for me. [ male announcer ] visit abilifyoffer.com for your free trial offer. and ask your doctor about the risks and benefits of adding abilify.

i've been a strong believer in the notion that if somebody is willing to serve in our military in einform putting their lives on the line for our

security, that they should not be appreciated from being doing so because of their sexual orientation. majority of americans feel the same way. it's the right thing to do. >> we're back. that was president obama last week's news conference. according to "the washington post" a pentagon study group on the don't ask, don't tell policy has concluded that lifting the ban on the gays in military would not seriously harm the war efforten a military survey shows that majority of active duty and reserve forces don't care if gay are allowed to serve openly. dan choi is an iraq war veteran. thank you for your service. who was discharged from the army national guard this year after coming out. and alex nicholson was also discharged under the don't ask, don't tell policy. an advocacy organization for gays and lesbian member for the veteran. the talk about the unusual situation. politicians tend to try to be ahead of the curve. usually. they try to be smarter know that

the people because they want to get re-elected and re-elected and re-elected they like their jobs. a case where about 70% of the american people believe in open service. no more don't ask, don't tell. if you're guy you serve, no problem. they're for that and that's really moved up over the last several years, right? how come the politicians haven't kept up with the people? why do we still have a problem getting this passed in the senate? >> i think that it's i political issue. >> why does the majority or half of the senate doesn't want it. >> i think that when i talk about what my military service was and when i talk about wanting stoev, there's certainly many benefits of serving and there are many fringe things on the other sides, the idea of service. and i think that some politicians think in very different ways from their people at times. they think that gay issues are sometimes a very difficult political issue and i think that for anybody to make promises, like president obama did, and not take action -- >> okay you're not going in your direction. go my direction.

why is it problem getting it through the congress? because i just read the constitution on this point. the congress has the right to raise and support armies. congress has fundamental power over the army. >> okay. >> according to the constitution. >> the direction -- >> no, i'm asking you, is why can't the congress go with the american people on this issue politically? american people on this issue? what's holding them up? why are no republicans on board? why aren't they saying, of course, i'm for open service. the american people are for it overwhelming. >> i don't speak for any political party. i don't need to understand why a politician votes a certain way. i need to know under the law i can't tell the truth. i come back from war and treated as a second-class citizen. that's what i'm focused on. that might not be your direction. whether it's congress or the president, these people are

leaders. we know that politics is war with no blood. war is politics with the blood. why is it that in politics we realize that there are consequences but we don't act on them? >> my question is why wouldn't a politician obey the will of the people? it would be in their self interest to do it. >> there is a lack of courage. especially on this day. >> why is there courage in the democratic party but not the republican party? >> i don't think there is courage in one particular party. >> it there are 58 but it ain't 60. we're going in that direction. what's the problem? >> i think we lost part of the principal of the military. >> they said something in the marines.

>> they hang their hat way too much on what they think. congress needs to act to do it. >> i understand your passion. you served your country. i wasn't over there. you did it. let me ask you this. why are they hanging their hat on -- you see the reports leaked. that's not good enough. they want to have hearings on the reported and run out the clock. next year, it's a republican congress. you say politics. it's going to be a lot harder from a republican congress. you first. >> it's not about whether a mission -- >> why don't they do it? >> it doesn't matter whether it's considered difficult or hard. it's a matter of doing the right thing. >> when you talk like this to members of the senate, what do they say? what do the republicans say? >> it doesn't matter what they say to me. i know when i talk about the gay community and the disappointment they have, i know equality if it is -- >> how do you blame democrats if every single one of them blamed your way?

>> i don't get what you're saying. >> if every single one of them votes for don't ask, don't tell, isn't that good enough? >> there's more than the president could do. the day before the cloture vote, it would be great if he could have called a single senator rather than a sports team. he needs to put his money where his mouth is. >> how does he get a republican to vote the way he does? let me tell you how the country works. congress gets to decide these issues. they have pass the don't ask, don't tell law. they repeal it. >> i think it would help if the president stopped the discharges. >> can he do that legally? >> i think he can. >> how does the president ignore the will of congress is? >> it's unconstitutional. the courts say it's unconstitutional. >> the lower court did. this hasn't reached its way up -- >> it's unconstitutional. why can't the president say what he knows is true? >> he took the same oath as you

do interpreted by the supreme court. he cannot honor -- >> the oath is to what? >> to defend the constitution. >> against all foreign and domestic enemies. when you talk about discrimination that's unjust in the military -- >> that's your opinion. we have to get the courts to rule on that. >> and they have. >> i mean, please yell loud, but it's not going to solve the problem. i'm with your passion because you've been there. i haven't been there. he's a pretty strong-minded guy on this. do you believe the president can do it willfully? >> i think dan's larger point is that the president needs to get more actively involved on this issue. we have a couple of -- >> i'm not sure they can do this. who are they? >> susan collins. >> you don't have her yet. >> we have her if it's structured right. >> when i see her vote for it, i'll believe it. he said he's not going to do it. it's a tough fight.

when we return, let me finish with thoughts about this budget process. we'll be right back. that military personnel can preboard at the gate. we are ready to invite our first class passengers and uniformed military personnel to board at this time. to those who put our country first, we're honored to do the same for you. i've been looking at the numbers, and i think our campus is spending too much money on printing. i'd like to put you in charge of cutting costs. calm down. i know that it is not your job. what i'm saying... excuse me? alright, fine. no, you don't have to do it. ok? [ male announcer ] notre dame knows it's better for xerox to control its printing costs. so they can focus on winning on and off the field. [ manager ] are you sure i can't talk -- ok, no, i get it. [ male announcer ] with xerox, you're ready for real business.

[ male announcer ] what does it take to excel in today's business world? our professors know. because they've been there. and they work closely with business leaders to develop curriculum to meet the needs of top businesses. which means when our graduates walk in the room, they're not only prepared... they're prepared to lead. devry university's keller graduate school of management. learn how to grow the business of you at keller.edu.

let me finish tonight with two of my fixed positions on the role of government in this country. one, if you can't protect your border, you're not a country. if you can't control your budget, you're in the a firefightenot a government. we are after all the land of immigrants.

but countries have a right to decide how other people enter it. if they don't take that responsibility seriously, they have failed their own nation. i want people living here to be given legitimate documents. i want all employers who hire people in the future to see those do you want or face charges. my second fixed position is, if you can't control the budget, you're not a government. the president assembled a commission to deal with the debt racing past $14 trillion. the commission chairmen recommendeded actions to cut the debt in half. as a guy who once worked on the senate budget committee, i know how heard that this this is going to be. every pressure group in the country will want to blast its recommendations and will bristle with outrage to get media attention. ask anyone who complains about the proposals what they would do instead. when i ask politicians to name a policy they would cut, i get generalizations. i don't get the name of a program. one costing where it would cut and ma